Ash has been competing in leagues for several years and Iris magically wins one on her first try? She’s somehow gotten more far than people like Dawn and somehow can go toe to toe with Cynthia?
Ash has been competing in leagues for several years and Iris magically wins one on her first try? She’s somehow gotten more far than people like Dawn and somehow can go toe to toe with Cynthia?
Iris is a CHAD prodigy not a contest jobber.
Ash is also 10 and defeated Cynthia so.
Except Ash has had development to actually take down Cynthia. Dawn should have won a Grand Festival if Iris became Champion
>Ash's development l
>iterally using mons he caught in this gen and a special snowflake Lucario he had for like 2 weeks in-universe time
And Iris' development is what exactly? Ash always wanted to win a league
Iris is one of worst written prodigy characters ever. At least with a shitty genius characters like Sora from no game no life while it doesn't make sense how they figure out everything you can understand what they do with the information to succeed. What does Iris actually DO that separates her from non-prodigies?
>no game no life
lose weight
If you actually fricking watched that garbage you shouldn't be allowed to talk to people
You have to watch bad to know good
> What does Iris actually DO that separates her from non-prodigies
This
Misty did that too dumbass
Became a Champion? Of what region? Cerulean Gym?
Have pikachu in hair
Okay but how does she win? What does she do differently that gives her better results?
This differently
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
You got your answer though!
It wasn't an answer though
It was.
the frick is was
Doesn't even fricking matter.
The reason she's a prodigy is that she started winning young. That's it. That's all that being a "prodigy" means
Win.
they are just good, that's how it works in Pokemon. Why is Whitney a Prodigy in Johto? Because she wins.
Iris is too cool
jobber*
Jobber is too cool?
No she's not cool she's a jobber
>toe to toe
kek she got stomped by the weaker half of Cynthias team
Cynthia's Milotic defeated Dracovish, was her second Pokemon ever and Haxorus had a clash with mega Garchomp. How's sucking that copium going?
This
iris is TRASH
Ah the progression of Cynthiagay cope
>Cynthia is strong and just as strong as Leon
>Cynthia made it to the Masters 8 without a gimmick because she doesn’t need a crutch like Leon (really was Iris)
>Cynthia is so strong but wait one half of her team is extremely weaker than the others but she’s still so strong
>Cynthia didn’t need a Keystone to win
>Cynthia only used her Keystone because Iris was mind fricking Haxorus and boosting his strength.
is strong and just as strong as Leon
full power (2-gimmick) Cynthisa is ~equal to 3-gimmick Ash and thus stronger than Leon, yeah
Cope cope cope. It’s okay, when the anime doesn’t confirm, headcanon will always be there.
1-Gimmick Ash>1 Gimmick Cynthia, so it follows that 2 Gimmick Ash>2 Gimmick Cynthia.
Here's your actual order, anon.
Ash(3 Gimmicks)>=Leon>2 Gimmicks Ash>2 Gimmicks Cynthia("full power")
>1-Gimmick Ash>1 Gimmick Cynthia
Liar, he used 2 power-ups just for a togekiss
FP Cynthia = 3 gimmick Ash > Leon
Using more than 1 gimmick would've broken the rules, and Ash stayed within the rules.
As much as you wish for it to be, Aura is no gimmick.
>Cynthia mega evolved to counter Iris Dragon Power”
>Cynthia’s lost didn’t matter because Ash was using mega evolution and aura
Notice a pattern here?
Call it whatever you want to cope.
Without it Ash was weaker than Cynthia.
Leon 1 gimmick > Ash 3 gimmick > Leon no gimmick > Cynthia 2 gimmick > Cynthia 1 gimmick > Iris > Cynthia no gimmick
Leon is a jobber who loses to anything with more than 1 PU.
aka to Ash and Cynthia
Based, Leonjeets seething
coooope
Shitrona lost
Megas are not legal
The anime itself disagrees with you.
It’s okay, this is going to continue to analy mind frick them each and every time
The actual translation is slightly different, but the quote is still clearly implying it was fairly close, just not as directly.
It's along the lines of "Iris did well, but unfortunately lost".
I’ve heard different things about what it truly said. “Iris put up a brave fight but couldn’t close the gap” is another one. Is the implication that Cynthia almost lost or Iris did well in general?
what sucks is they actually could have told an interesting story about how such a bratty child became the champ
Instead, for the 100+ episodes we're with her she remained an insufferable brat and only when she's brought back for nostalgia points does she suddenly swap around
what a waste
Swap around what? She still brags about becoming a Champion to Ash. She’s changed nothing.
This is who you wanted as Champion?
Unironically yes. Zoomers wouldn't get it.
Do you have anything better to do than hating on younger viewers?
Comedy director Tomiyasu, pls understand.
Time is handled ambiguously in the anime, while for us who see the story from Ash's point of view it seems like years, within his universe it's barely a couple of months, making many non-canon events.
Also since her appearance established Iris as a prodigy, her 6 year old self could easily have swept Ash and Gary out of the Johto league.
Ash instead is used depending on the plot, but the core of the character is being a hard work character (and with a lot of luck) against talented characters like Gary, Iris, or Leon. Only in Kalos and some movies was he treated as the chosen one and it was terrible at the plot level.
So it makes more sense that Iris became Champion before him?
Yes it does
She had a block, all for basing her entire strategy on a single pokemon. It was thanks to her journey with Ash that she managed to overcome this and when they said goodbye to him she continued her path alone.
It could be said that (apart from the obvious convenience of the script) what delays Ash in his growth as a trainer are his friends, they are always helping him and do not allow him to grow by himself, an example is that now that he stopped traveling through a region and only dedicated himself to fighting in a ranking tournament, his level rose exceptionally. Just look at how strong and confident Ash is from the AU's films.
So his friends are the one who are holding him back. Not the other way around?
Possibly, being off screen the writers can justify any shit.
So you’re saying that Iris got interested in badge collecting after her series?
>Also since her appearance established Iris as a prodigy, her 6 year old self could easily have swept Ash and Gary out of the Johto league.
So a bullshit Mary Sue got it
Look what all that Mary Sueness got her! It’s almost like the writers don’t give a shit !
She can’t be a Mary Sue if she had a hard time bonding with her Excadrill for years and took a while for her Dragonite to listen to her. And not to mention since becoming champion she went 0-2
Still became a fricking champion despite not having the drive for it like a rival character
Who cares?
Serena shitters and racists mostly
Anipoke filled with over aged white men? Racist? Oh never, how could that be? Racism? Noo
I do. It's bad writing.
Do you think the writers gives a shit?
how are the paths of "Dragon Master" and "Champion" so dissimilar that you can't see them leading down similar paths?
If anything, Iris seeing Ash do the gym challenge while she was with him is a reasonable impetus for her to realize the similarities, and thus decide to do it herself after. She was busy with Axew at the time, and that' where her focus was, but with that resolved It really isn't that much of a leap anon.
I don't get why you feel the way you do
>I don't get why you feel the way you do
Oh really? You don't WHY they're feeling that way?
>You don't WHY they're feeling that way
did you burst an aneurysm or something
You’re not far behind if you don’t know how to use capitalization and punctuation. Still gonna b***h about bad writing?
>still gonna b***h about bad writing
you seem really confused if that's what you're asking me
I suggest you try reading again
Exactly.
> how are the paths of "Dragon Master" and "Champion" so dissimilar that you can't see them leading down similar paths?
They aren't but she did frick all to reach that goal while she was on screen.
Despite that her title is:
Kek
ugh
it looks like a fricking seven eleven
>Ash takes 7 attempts to become a champion for various circumstances. Either he wasn’t ready(Kanto, Unova), there was just somebody better than him(Johto, Hoenn & Kalos) or Arceus just really hated him that day(Sinnoh).
>We know that becoming a champion is a huge deal and that means you’re a super strong trainer as demonstrated by Cythnia and others
>BW demonstrated that Iris is basically on par with Ash in terms of strength as demonstrated when she beat him in that tournament in the finals and getting a Dragonite is basically a huge buff(ignore it’s jobber status later)
Im perfectly fine with her becoming a champion but it would have been satisfying if we had some sort of mini arc/special showcasing it. Like her Axew evolved off screen and became a powerhouse. It should be the coolest thing ever but again this was just off screen.
During BW Iris was show to already be around Ash's level (since BW Ash was a moron).
And in the time they were separated we saw Ash rise from Top 8 in the Unova League to Runner-up in Kalos and finally to Champion in Alola. It's not too far-fetched to imagine Iris went through a similar progression, especially when you consider that she has always used the same pokémon team, instead of swapping them around every time she changed regions like Ash does.
She started battling at an age younger than Ash and she actually trains a set party once she became a champion. What you should be asking is how Ash is able to defeat all these champions with a team he started training months ago, but I know ashnimegays like to ignore the plot armor he gained past BW.
>What you should be asking is how Ash is able to defeat all these champions with a team he started training months ago
You’re acting as if people haven’t been doing that already.
>His Dragonite was able to one shot Korrina’s Mega Lucario
>His Lucario that he got over a span of a few months is somehow stronger than Korrina’s Lucario that she’s raised for years
>What you should be asking is how Ash is able to defeat all these champions with a team he started training months ago
The way I see it is that most of those pokemon were already high level and thanks to the huge amount of experience (badges) they behave like puppies with Ash, if it were Ash from Kanto they would behave like a group of Charizard not obeying or respecting his trainer.
And in Lucario's case, Ash gave him intensive training thanks to his previous experience with all the Lucario trainers he met, as well as his natural advantage in having such a particular Aura.
In the case of Dracovish I have no excuse, does anyone know at what level the Galar fossils are given to you when they are created?
15
What about the interest in badges?
Iris has been a trainer longer than Ash and any other companion, and even won more battles than Ash.
Why do Iris haters suddenly forget about this?
Because she was just strong in her village. Why she fought a real competitor she got wrecked and lost then her Excadrill lost it stopped listening to her for years and only had her Axew which she didn’t use for battling.
Except she ended up beating that Haxorus and that competitor considered giving her his Gym since he was so impressed. Why are you forgetting these details?
Was this after she met Ash and Cilan or before?
After
Yeah I was referring to when she was younger and got wrecked by Drayden. Iris isn’t an incompetent battle given that she did beat Ash
And you think a 6 year old would have done better?
No but I’m sure his Pokémon wouldn’t outright ignore him for years
She barely commanded him after that and went to school almost immediately after. She made it clear she never sends out to battle. Did you watch the show or just came to shit on Iris?
Yeah I stopped watching BW. I don’t hate the character or want to shit on her I just noticed that she’s way more flawed than Ash
Do you think a 6 year old Ash would have done any better?
Ok but is Ash now stronger than Iris?
Why?
because I want to know
Also Iris looks like a 14 years old teenager
> Why she fought a real competitor
You mean Drayden?
because they didn't watch BW
All they remember is “what a kid” and nothing else. Static in their mind after that
Irisbros I’m so happy we united to make sense of the sensical. She won
Is Ash stronger than Iris?
Time is weird in Pokemon. Not even a year has passed in-universe. Iris might've been getting it in for the same length of Ash off-screen.
*for same length of time as Ash
Iris went on a journey across the world battling and meeting dragon trainers and dragon Pokémon before she came back to a Unova to become Champion. Why did you speedwatch the episode before making this thread?
We didn’t see it happen on screen. It just came an off screen adventure to make her out to be cool than she actually is.
They literally do that for every single returning companion. I hate Iris as much as the next guy but I’m not gonna say disingenuous stuff to shit on her.
Are you saying you'd want a whole Iris solo special series? I'd be down for that too, would be way more fresh than more Ash, good idea anon.
Like a 4 parter in the same style as the Mega Evolution specials or better yet I would have sacrificed a good chunk of JNs episodes in order to see her progress. It’s not like we’re losing anything if we don’t see Ash & Pikachu for a a few episodes. Hell they literally did that in JNs with that Goh flashback episode
Like the four parter we got on how Steven became Champion?
Steven only appeared in 1 episode back in AG and seeing him again in XY as champion doesn’t bother me. Wallace was the champion and he didn’t even appear in his debut generation it was just DP and we never saw him again until JNs. Same thing with Lance becoming champion in JNs, we know he was an E4 member in Johto and AG and we never saw him again, also Kanto/Johto never had an established champion back in the original series so it’s fine. Iris’ case is different became she was a main character. I don’t know why this simple concept is hard for people to understand.
> Iris’ case is different became she was a main character
WAS as in no longer
WAS
Her involvement to the show is still important
Not really. BW ended 12 years ago and three series has past by. Journeys made her relevant again. This is no different than past Champions, you're just biased
Ash has like anti-plot armor. Instead of the plot conforming to his success, it instead drives a status quo of him losing just before the end so a soulless franchise doesn't have to end so they can keep selling merchandise.
Pokemon has soul, you moron
>more far
Further
She was the more interesting og the two Unova game champions to use for the M8 (due to her connection to Ash) so they halfassed her anime version to match the games
Winner
Shitris sucks