>Triggers?

>Triggers /tg/

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I mean one of the global rules involves scat and you just posted shit so

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    That's not d&d5e

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      People shit on 5e but I've never seen people lie or spread misinfo on 5e as much as they do with paizo and pf2e

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        You shitting me? there's literally a thread up right now that's spreading misinformation and lying about 5e:

        [...]

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Everything in that thread is pulled straight from the PHB

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Except OP's thesis statement which is objectively false.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Statement? You mean the Thread Question?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Stop the victim complex, people here do that with every fucking system because no one read the books, and instead if a broken game of telephone where they repeat what they read on other threads.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    OP, you could've posted literally any image, and your statement still would've been true. At this point, "tg" stands for "triggered"

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Thread done, best post.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >PF2
      >Triggers /tg/
      Triggers? More like morons.

      You can leave at any time.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >At this point, "tg" stands for "triggered"
      i cannot stop laughing

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I mean, it was just the knee-jerk "dislike New thing" we always do. It's neither a detriment nor an improvement to anything. Just different.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Saying "it's shit" isn't "triggered.

      >dislike New thing
      This rarely happens, and definitely isn't happening in regards to PF2. It's just shit.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        what abput it is shit though? if you don't have any reason than you ARE just triggered.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >what abput it is shit though
          Many things, which has been detailed again and again in many threads.
          >if you don't have any reason than you ARE just triggered
          No. Even if there were no reasons (of which there are many), it would merely mean that the person unable to state reasons would be wrong, not necessarily triggered.

          PF2 is garbage.
          PF2 has always been garbage.
          PF2 will continue to be garbage.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >can't even state why he thinks it's bad
            Lol triggered

            • 2 months ago
              sage

              I can, and me and others have done so on multiple occasions. And you know this. There is nothing triggered about that. I'm sorry your game is bad, but I genuinely do not give a shit about it, other than perhaps the fact that it's shitting up the board and making fruitful conversation about Pathfinder impossible.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Fucking TRIGGERED

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >The idea of moving 99% of class features into a ton of class feats is terrible, the classes have no identity anymore and at this point they might as well have just gone classless
          >Too many skills to the point that a ton of them are useless the majoirty of the time and might as well be rolled into other skills
          >D20 and all the problems that come with using a d20 instead of 2d10, 2d6, 3d6, 1d100 roll under, or literally anything else
          >Spellcasters are the opposite of 5e's problem where they're so drastically shit that there's no point playing them compared to a martial (something I'm currently struggling with in my own original fantasy TTRPG but aim to fix by playtesting and making tweaks unlike paizo who seems content to leave things as they are)
          >Action system is retarded, more complex than it needs to be and is functionally the same shit as 4e which is also a dogshit system, should have been a complex/simple action system like good systems use

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Checked it out recently. Ancestries that grant extra abilitie on later levels are an interesting idea, but castrated multiclassing ruins it for me. IMHO, they could've done multiclassing the 3.PF old way and keep the idea of prestige classes, but instead introduced this mess of "double class" and topped it with another similarly retarded restricted option of multiclassing for some dumb reason.
    Otherwise, 2e looks decent, but I'd still prefer 1e.
    I don't get what's supposed to trigger anyone about it though.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The archtype multiclassing is leagues better then the old system especially if the DM gives.out free archtypes

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        What if you don't want to start as two classes rolled into one, but mid-game, because of your choice, story reasons, or whatever, want to multiclass? Duh, you can't cuz fuck you, progress a couple levels more, or should've picked it from scratch, or stick to one class, fuck you, here's your racial trait, it's tied to your level in this class, and not to your total level, enjoy.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Lmao why lie

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Where's the lie?

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              You obviously misunderstand because your too stupid or purposely want to spread misinfo

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                So, you cannot specify where the lie is?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          What's stopping you from multiclassing at a higher level? You just pick the feats and that's it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What's stopping me from multiclassing at a higher level?
            1. The fact that my barbarian decided to study ways of warfare used by the holy order he's encountered and joined - right now rather than wait until he becomes 3 levels better at harnessing his primal rage
            2. The fact that my sorcerer has made a pact with a great one from beyond space and time last session, and is already a sorcerer-cleric, and not just a higher level sorcerer until he gains enough levels to multiclass
            3. The fact that I don't want to take any more levels in rogue and wizard any more and wants to take one level in fighter for reasons that shouldn't concern you
            4. The fact that the GM has switched our game from PF1 where I was Alchemist 2 Witch 1, to PF2 where I am I don't know what any more

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Then you spend downtime retraining? Don't even need to wait for your level.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            How do you balance this mess of three different ways of multiclassing neither of which allows you to actually simply multiclass?

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Cool thing about it, we dont have too, the devs already did it for us and the system is nicely balanced in the first place so it's impossible to truly break like the trivially easy-to-break 1e or 3.5 or even 5e.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, just restrict your players' choices, still lock the "retraining" to the one class the player character already is, and call it "balance".
                No, fuck you.

                [...]
                Heres the rules on retraining. And while the rules say you cant retrain your class, it is trivially easy to ask your DM to allow it. Ive done it while playing and DMing.

                >Retraining
                Source: Core Rulebook pg. 481
                Retraining offers a way to alter some of your character choices, which is helpful when you want to take your character in a new direction or change decisions that didn’t meet your expectations. You can retrain feats, skills, and some selectable class features. You can’t retrain your ancestry, heritage, background, class, or ability scores. You can’t perform other downtime activities while retraining.

                Retraining usually requires you to spend time learning from a teacher, whether that entails physical training, studying at a library, or falling into shared magical trances. Your GM determines whether you can get proper training or whether something can be retrained at all. In some cases, you’ll have to pay your instructor.

                Some abilities can be difficult or impossible to retrain (for instance, a sorcerer can retrain their bloodline only in extraordinary circumstances).

                When retraining, you generally can’t make choices you couldn’t make when you selected the original option. For instance, you can’t exchange a 2nd-level skill feat for a 4th-level one, or for one that requires prerequisites you didn’t meet at the time you took the original feat. If you don’t remember whether you met the prerequisites at the time, ask your GM to make the call. If you cease to meet the prerequisites for an ability due to retraining, you can’t use that ability. You might need to retrain several abilities in sequence in order to get all the abilities you want.

                It then lists the general times and restrictions for each retrained item. Mostly each takes a week, must follow same restrictions as leveling (so no retraining a skill feat for a class feat), and your GM gets to impose whatever instructors and their fees you must use.

                > the rules say you cant retrain your class
                Exactly.
                > it is trivially easy to ask your DM to allow it
                That's just PF1 multiclassing with extra steps.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >That's just PF1 multiclassing with extra steps.
                Well no it isnt. Your retraining your entire character structure, instead of just adding on useless levels that make you weaker likely because your fishing for class features or trying to hit prerequisites for your weird min-max build. I will never understand the want for 1e style multiclassing when it was proven to be a useless hunk of shit that gimped casters, and severely fucked up all the other classes unless you had a very specific build in mind that exploited the system but made you a one trick pony. It was bad game design that gave you the illusion of choice but was literally a trap. A man who keeps multiclassing because of story is a severely indecisive person trying to be a jack of all trades and ending up a useless party member because they cant decide on a single class style to play.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                > Your retraining your entire character structure
                How? If you're takinjg a level in class, then retraining it for a level in another class? Or do you mean you are "retraining" all levels of your class entirely? Then it's just dumb. You don't stop being a warrior if you decide to add a little bit of a mage to the mix.
                > A man who keeps multiclassing because of story is a severely indecisive person trying to be a jack of all trades
                No. A man who keeps multiclassing because of story is actually putting some effort in roleplaying.
                > It was bad game design that gave you the illusion of choice but was literally a trap
                So the devs decided to give us no choice at all. I see.
                But you know, I agree with one thing, classes - not multiclassing, character classes as a concept - are a bad design choice.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >That's just PF1 multiclassing with extra steps.
                Well no it isnt. Your retraining your entire character structure, instead of just adding on useless levels that make you weaker likely because your fishing for class features or trying to hit prerequisites for your weird min-max build. I will never understand the want for 1e style multiclassing when it was proven to be a useless hunk of shit that gimped casters, and severely fucked up all the other classes unless you had a very specific build in mind that exploited the system but made you a one trick pony. It was bad game design that gave you the illusion of choice but was literally a trap. A man who keeps multiclassing because of story is a severely indecisive person trying to be a jack of all trades and ending up a useless party member because they cant decide on a single class style to play.

                And I havent even mentioned that the rules explicitly tell you that you can hand out feats, archetypes and others, as rewards for things in story. You want an archetype that shows you made a pact with an otherworldly entity? Sure have one, because the system is so fundamentally balanced that letting people have extra abilities from "multiclassing" isnt all that large of a power boost. The 1e story feat system is literally built into the game from the start.

                >Other Types of Treasure
                Source: Core Rulebook pg. 509
                Not all treasure has to be items or currency. Crafters can use the Crafting skill to turn raw materials directly into items instead of buying those items with coins. Knowledge can expand a character’s abilities, and formulas make good treasure for item-crafting characters. A spellcaster might get access to new spells from an enemy’s spellbook or an ancient scholar, while a monk might retrain techniques with rarer ones learned from a master on a remote mountaintop.

                > Your retraining your entire character structure
                How? If you're takinjg a level in class, then retraining it for a level in another class? Or do you mean you are "retraining" all levels of your class entirely? Then it's just dumb. You don't stop being a warrior if you decide to add a little bit of a mage to the mix.
                > A man who keeps multiclassing because of story is a severely indecisive person trying to be a jack of all trades
                No. A man who keeps multiclassing because of story is actually putting some effort in roleplaying.
                > It was bad game design that gave you the illusion of choice but was literally a trap
                So the devs decided to give us no choice at all. I see.
                But you know, I agree with one thing, classes - not multiclassing, character classes as a concept - are a bad design choice.

                >How? If you're takinjg a level in class, then retraining it for a level in another class?
                You arent doing this.
                >Or do you mean you are "retraining" all levels of your class entirely? Then it's just dumb.
                Yes, if the character concept is so fundamentally changed as to stop being a warrior and go full time as a caster, then retraining your class is the only option and moving warrior to archetype feats instead. But its a rare option for when a character needs to be changed at a more fundamental level.
                >You don't stop being a warrior if you decide to add a little bit of a mage to the mix.
                Oh hey its the whole point of PF2e style multiclassing, where you persist and train as a warrior while adding in a bit of mage into the mix via dedication and archetypes, and it doesn't gimp you like fucking 1e. You dont stop being a warrior because you learned a few spells and dont have the deep background of training to be a wizard.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                So, this system doesn't want to let me play what I want, and intstead wants to convince me I want to play a different thing. Been there, seen that. Fuck it.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >this system doesn't want to let me play what I want
                It does, it just expects you to have some convictions about what your character is capable of, and not be an indecisive little gay.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                > indecisive
                Fuck you. There's nothing indecisive about multiclassing, and if you think there is, then the only little gay here is you.
                > It does
                Except not really.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              What mess? There is only one way to do it and retraining is just the same way as the only way. You end up the same whether you made the choice on level or you retrained down the line. While it is less choice in the broadest sense of that word it's far more actually worthwhile choices. A choice that makes you a detriment to your group and just flatly less effective is not a well designed choice.

              >The idea of moving 99% of class features into a ton of class feats is terrible, the classes have no identity anymore and at this point they might as well have just gone classless
              >Too many skills to the point that a ton of them are useless the majoirty of the time and might as well be rolled into other skills
              >D20 and all the problems that come with using a d20 instead of 2d10, 2d6, 3d6, 1d100 roll under, or literally anything else
              >Spellcasters are the opposite of 5e's problem where they're so drastically shit that there's no point playing them compared to a martial (something I'm currently struggling with in my own original fantasy TTRPG but aim to fix by playtesting and making tweaks unlike paizo who seems content to leave things as they are)
              >Action system is retarded, more complex than it needs to be and is functionally the same shit as 4e which is also a dogshit system, should have been a complex/simple action system like good systems use

              I know this is bait, but...
              >classes have no identity
              >because of all these unique feats that no one else gets
              What?

              >Spellcasters are the opposite of 5e's problem
              Yes, because just 5e has this problem. Definetly wasn't a thing in PF1e either. No sir.
              >where they're so drastically shit that there's no point playing them compared to a martial
              This is such a meme. Casters are just balanced now. Sure if what you want is casters to shit all over martials and that's your entire metric for playable, then 2e has unplayable casters. If you want balanced casters that are comfortable in basically any role you build them for and contribute consistently to a solid standard then 2e has well designed casters.

              >aim to fix by playtesting and making tweaks unlike paizo who seems content to leave things as they are
              So you weren't around for 2e? PF 2e had a long playtest period were whole swaths of things were changed, redone, or outright removed.

              >Action system is retarded, more complex than it needs to be and is functionally the same shit as 4e
              So out of PF2e and D&D4e which one haven't you read?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                > A choice that makes you a detriment to your group and just flatly less effective is not a well designed choice.
                A choice that isn't actually a choice is a worse design though. Instead of just making multiclassing easier and more viable, they scrapped it altogether and replaced with this restrictive clusterfuck

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >A choice that isn't actually a choice is a worse design though
                Sure but that's not really applicable to this conversation. So I'm not sure why you're saying it like it is. You MC or you don't, you take an Archetype or you don't. Same shit.

                >Instead of just making multiclassing easier and more viable
                Do you know why they didn't do that? Because it's fundamentally impossible to do that while still making classes actual classes. You can't have easy and balanced MCing in these styles of games because class construction and leveling fundamentally prevents it. Halting progression in one thing to start at the bottom of another thing is never going to be equivalent in progressing the first thing. Unless of course all classes are built to be functionally interchangeable but then you've got not classes. So you're either going to be just weaker than you should be, or you're going to be better than you should be through synergies that can't possible exist in such a wide design space. Their is no good solution. That's why there is no game that has managed to do it and all games that want to make MC-esque systems just does it entirely differently.

                >they scrapped it altogether and replaced with this restrictive clusterfuck
                Yeah, MCing is broken by its nature. They got rid of the mechanic that can't work. They did the thing you should do with new editions, improve things. But Archetypes offer more choice than MCing ever did, given there are more Archetypes than just Class Archetypes (and the free Archetype rule), and the choices are on the whole much more worthwhile. You can't just drop your class and go doing something else, but that was something incredibly niche to begin with, and often just flatly broken. Some hypothetical amazing narrative that might happen for every millionth PC is not justification to build a broken mechanical system. If you happen to be that millionth PC's player well then it sucks for you but you can still play PF 1e.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What if you don't want to start as two classes rolled into one, but mid-game, because of your choice, story reasons, or whatever, want to multiclass? Duh, you can't cuz fuck you, progress a couple levels more, or should've picked it from scratch, or stick to one class, fuck you, here's your racial trait, it's tied to your level in this class, and not to your total level, enjoy.

            Heres the rules on retraining. And while the rules say you cant retrain your class, it is trivially easy to ask your DM to allow it. Ive done it while playing and DMing.

            >Retraining
            Source: Core Rulebook pg. 481
            Retraining offers a way to alter some of your character choices, which is helpful when you want to take your character in a new direction or change decisions that didn’t meet your expectations. You can retrain feats, skills, and some selectable class features. You can’t retrain your ancestry, heritage, background, class, or ability scores. You can’t perform other downtime activities while retraining.

            Retraining usually requires you to spend time learning from a teacher, whether that entails physical training, studying at a library, or falling into shared magical trances. Your GM determines whether you can get proper training or whether something can be retrained at all. In some cases, you’ll have to pay your instructor.

            Some abilities can be difficult or impossible to retrain (for instance, a sorcerer can retrain their bloodline only in extraordinary circumstances).

            When retraining, you generally can’t make choices you couldn’t make when you selected the original option. For instance, you can’t exchange a 2nd-level skill feat for a 4th-level one, or for one that requires prerequisites you didn’t meet at the time you took the original feat. If you don’t remember whether you met the prerequisites at the time, ask your GM to make the call. If you cease to meet the prerequisites for an ability due to retraining, you can’t use that ability. You might need to retrain several abilities in sequence in order to get all the abilities you want.

            It then lists the general times and restrictions for each retrained item. Mostly each takes a week, must follow same restrictions as leveling (so no retraining a skill feat for a class feat), and your GM gets to impose whatever instructors and their fees you must use.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    well p2 is just dnd with more fagshit
    p1 is patrician, almost a legendary game, held back with them not committing to their divergent design
    i never turn my nose up at a p1 run, most fun i've ever had at the table was with a ratling trenchfighter in a mudcore game about deserters escaping the frontline of not-ww1

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >buzzword buzzwords buzzwords

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        learn what "Buzzword" means so next time you draw a blank at least you won't humiliate yourself.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >PF playerbase is entirely people who hated 4e and just want more 3.5 forever
    >PF2 is similar to 4e because that's the logical progression from 3.5
    What could possibly go wrong.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing really. It's been selling pretty well

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    This thread is gold. So many autists.

    The screeching may continue...

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I hear it’s fine, but it’s still too much ruleswank for my tastes.

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