>Vancian Magic system the most popular system in TT and Fantasy media
>No one has adapted his Dying Earth world to any other lasting format beyond his books, which no one reads.
What a massive injustice. It was only a small part of his whole mythos.
>most popular system in Fantasy media
It's not
Critical premises of it are the foundation of D&D's magic "system", resulting in it being referred to as "Vancian spellcasting", and the only time D&D wasn't the most popular the top spot was taken by a close derivative of the previous edition.
About the only change I can think of needed to make D&D magic "properly" Vancian is preparing to a single "block" instead of per-spell-level slots.
You said media. That includes books, games, movies. I give you it on tabletop rpgs which is why I didn’t include that in my post.
And just to clarify I don’t have anything against your thread but I thought I would be the autist to point this out first since someone was bound to
I'm OP. And you have valid points. My gripe is that his setting is never utilized when it was one of the first real adventure settings.
And to your argument, Vancian to most people is just "Prepare spells in advance" as per any dictionary definition. There really isn't an argument to be had besides it's popularity which is subjective.
Fuck all of that autist shit. My point is. No one cares about his works when they where Seminole in the making of TTRPGs.
Preparing spells in advance can just as effectively be done by allowing spells to be stored in one-time use items such as scrolls or gemstones, without needing the nonsensical premise of forgetting a spell after casting it like with vancian spells.
To be fair, most people don’t read pre80s fantasy authors outside of tolkien
>they where Seminole
Based ESL phoneposter
no im just retarded
DnD doesn't even use it anymore, it has moved away from Vacian casting.
>the only time D&D wasn't the most popular the top spot was taken by a close derivative of the previous edition
I don't recall magic in World of Darkness being Vancian, not even in the early 2000
>Fantasy media
I cannot recall ever seeing Vancian casting outside of RPGs. Hell I can't even remember that last time I saw it in something that wasn't an older edition of DnD, OSR or Pathfinder.
Pretty much everybody else uses Mana pools, OP.
>manganelo
I just read Eyes of the Overworld. Do any of Vance's other books have protagonists as based as Cugel?
Read the Lahnkmar books, that is right up your alley.
>Vancian Magic system
>the most popular system in TT and Fantasy media
But that's mana, and if we include folklore, then it's just fucking magic power by itself. Vancian magic is like this tiny ass abberration that you let yourself to believe to be big, because you are brain-damaged by DnD
I've never gotten a great explanation for Vancian Magic, only ever the jist of it. Since I'm assuming you're well versed, can you give me a crash course in it? I know it involves wizards having access to only specific words and that's why they only know specific spells, right?
It's literally just spell slots. You read a spellbook, memorize a limited number of spells, then forget them after casting them once.
That doesn't really sound like what I've heard about it, though. Also, you can cast the same fucking spell all day in D&D so long as you have the spell slots for it. You don't forget anything when you cast shit. Or is there some deep lore I've never heard about D&D spells?
Modern D&D doesn't use 'real' Vancian, people just call it Vancian because it's inspired by Vancian.
Vancian means you memorize a spell, cast that spell once, then forget the spell and can't cast it anymore.
OP here. In Vance's books, the world of the Dying Earth is a post-apoc earth so far into the future that the tech ends up being magic. So most spells are named by the wizards who found them or maybe even crafted them - think of tashas' hideous laughter; that is a classically inspired Vancian spell.
The gist is, most wizards in the Dying Earth have found gizmos that do crazy shit. And these gizmos lose power, and have a set amount of uses before being recharged - or even one use. It inspired most of what DnD is pretty much as far as Wizards and broke the mold with Sorcerers.
>So most spells are named by the wizards who found them or maybe even crafted them - think of tashas' hideous laughter; that is a classically inspired Vancian spell.
I've always hated that naming convention.
>The gist is, most wizards in the Dying Earth have found gizmos that do crazy shit. And these gizmos lose power, and have a set amount of uses before being recharged - or even one use.
I admit I’ve never read this far. You’re saying that the spells in Dying Earth are actually voice command for gizmos?
Most spells are set formulas (the great Phandal supposedly wrote them all down, but most have been lost in time) that do a particular thing, like running a computer program on reality. Wizards can cast spells by either imprinting the 'program' and power in their mind, releasing it all with a word and gesture when they cast it. Some powerful wizards enslave otherworldly entities (Sandistines, demons, etc) directly and using a system of punishment and reward 'points'; force the entities to do reality bending magic for them. Other wizards use ancient artifacts and machines for their magic. Much of the infighting and drama between wizards involves about stealing each others spellbooks, servants and artifacts.
This is why I love the setting. When people talk about high magic, they think of lotr or mabye even warhammer. But Dying Earth is true high magic, because it was so fucking magical that it tore the earth into shit, everyone lives forever, everyone is a magical sadist; evil demons roam the lands and have quaint conversations. Crazy crazy wizard shit. It's a great setting. Closer to Planescape but not quite "epic", it's sword and sorcery if everyone worth mentioning was a sorcerer.
Dying Earth is wizard shitposting taken to a high literary level, and considering how it came out in the 20th century it must be the genesis of it. Jack Vance is one of the greatest writers ever, its very sad that his work is hard to find in brick and mortar stores or libraries and undeniable proof that the weird reactionaries are right about the publishing industry.
/osrg/ doesn't like DCC.
>DUDE CLASSIC D&D LMAO
>classic D&D here means everyone is level 0 peasants who are so likely to die that you're expected to start with 5 and they literally sell scratch-off character sheets
>it's 3.5 based
>spells are multiple pages with wacky miscast tables
>the art is genuinely good and cool if you like that sort of thing
As for the Dying Earth expansion, you need DCC to run it, the spell list is disappointingly short (because each one takes too much space) and the world isn't quite presented in an easily gameable way. Probably not good enough unless you like both DCC and Dying Earth, otherwise you're better off making your own vancian adventures. I haven't checked the adventures yet.
If I we're to DM you can just make your own goofy as fuck setting anyway. Kingdoms raise and crumble in months in Vance's world but only the wizards stick around.
Basically, spells are massively complex pieces of arcane knowledge, each one is so taxing on your memory that you need to memorize it from a comically oversized spellbook in order to cast it, and even then, as soon as it's cast you forget the whole thing. Spells basically take up a huge amount of brain space; a master wizard can have maybe 3-4 powerful spells memorized at a time. So a wizard keeps his giant non-portable spellbook in his wizardly abode, and when he goes out for groceries or women he memorizes a few spells he thinks will be useful, and that's all he has until he can get back home.
Pretty sure there was a Dying Earth RPG? If I'm wrong though just use Worlds Without Number.
There's 2, actually. Well, one and another one "coming soon".
>No one has adapted his Dying Earth world to any other lasting format beyond his books
"Ahem"
You sad fuckers REALLY need to get out of your basements more.
>It was only a small part of his whole mythos
post-apocalyptic worlds are a dime a dozen; good conceptions of magic much less so
Tangentially related story time:
>Be me, last week, going to London for the first time in years
>Is recommended the Dying Earth series in a previous /tg/ tread about Vancian magic
>Go to Forbidden Planet to see if they have one
>Turns out they didn't have a single book from Jack Vance.
>They have a pretty extensive fantasy/scifi book section, but it's only new releases and trendy fancy reprints.
Are all book shops in the UK like this? Where would you go if you want to buy a classic which hasn't been recently reprinted, without having to go through Bezos?
On a related note, where would you begin, to get into the Dying Earth series?
>he doesn't know that this is how the entrenched left bans books without "banning" them
>there are only four major publishers in the world, all of whom own pieces of each other and operate as a cartel
>they, in turn, are owned by Blackrock, or companies owned by Blackrock
>anything with less than extreme demand that does not suit their political ends is just "not reprinted"
>anything with extreme demand, like Harry Potter, Agatha Christie, etc. is actively censored before "reprinting"
>the industry will simultaneously deny that it is happening and also claim that it has always been like this and is "a good thing"
>the process is currently being automated so that they can pretend that it isnt happening
Forgot some mainstream leftist links to prove the point, these only(!) talking about James Bond and Roald Dahl:
https://time.com/6258547/james-bond-books-rewritten/
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/james-bond-censored-offensive-roald-dahl-b2290856.html
https://deadline.com/2023/02/james-bond-books-rewritten-to-avoid-offense-to-modern-audiences-1235271892/
Or maybe because Jack Vance books aren't in high demand at all. I also can't find Fritz Leiber. You need to buy an expensive (worth it) omnibus for those. Also had to order an Omnibus for Chronicles of Amber.
>Or maybe because Jack Vance books aren't in high demand at all
>New bookstores are not going to carry obscure fantasy books from the 1970s because no one is going there to buy those.
If I go to any bookstore in France with a decently sized fantasy section, I'm 90% sure I'll find at least one book by Jack Vance.
It's one of the classics.
Typically, classics sells a lot better than new releases.
I’m not surprised you French have good taste in books but when it comes to the anglosphere that hasn’t been my experience
Well, I should say America. I’ve never been to a British used bookstore although I imagine it would be pretty cool given their history with fantasy
See what I mean?
This is a little retarded even for Ganker, man. You can buy his books on fuckin kindle, even. This is just how capitalism works.
It's very important that things happen this way, if you think otherwise you're wrong. And things never have and never will happen that way, you're just crazy.
I bought the four spatterlight press dying earth volumes from a non-bezos online retailer last year.
Nice find.
New bookstores are not going to carry obscure fantasy books from the 1970s because no one is going there to buy those. You need to hit up used bookstores for that. I don’t know the situation in the uk but if you do some research and find some stores, you can always call there and see if them or other stores in the chain have it. Beware of high prices online and be patient
I’m sorry anon but you have late stage brain rot. The only cure for you is an anal lobotomy.
>On a related note, where would you begin, to get into the Dying Earth series?
No idea what the English do, but the german-speaking book stores have a common second hand market system for currently out of print literature.
Yes, the big chains are. Your best bet would be to trawl through second hand bookshops and see if you can score some old oop copies. Be aware though that 2nd hand bookshops are a dying breed, thanks to waterstones and zoomers only liking new things.
Dungeon Crawl Classics released a Dying Earth campaign book and adventure box set just this year
Oh sick.
Can I get a QRD on DCC or is there a better thread dedicated to them that I can ask?
/osrg/
Vance is one of those scifi/fantasy authors that only gets read by scifi/fantasy authors. No one has heard of him but his influence has been massive.
Based. I'm no writer, but I have great taste.
He's so based...
Cugel is a great Arcane Trickster if you where to class him.
https://goodman-games.com/store/product-category/dcc-setting-dying-earth/
been out for a while