Heres a thread for discussing the warcraft rpg and associated warcraft lore.
How would you fix warcraft lore? Hard mode no retcons.
Lets make the focus of this thread being picking and choosing which MMO lore is worth saving.
Warcraft RPG
Heres a thread for discussing the warcraft rpg and associated warcraft lore.
How would you fix warcraft lore? Hard mode no retcons.
Lets make the focus of this thread being picking and choosing which MMO lore is worth saving.
>How do you fix the lore, hard mode no retcons.
Literally fucking impossible after shadowlands. Character assassination by writers is one thing, solved by killing or removing those characters.
Lore assassination by way of everything shadowlands did is literally unsalvageable and can slurp blight straight out of nathanos' original body's dilapidated, discarded asshole.
As mentioned in a previous thread, as far as all the roleplayers are concerned, Shadowlands never happened. The Helm of Domination broke, and Sylvanas was redeemed and sent into exile, but that's as far as anyone will acknowledge.
No, I like Revendreth and everything about it.
Please, the lore was doomed the moment night elves and undead were reduced to accessories in human vs ork, instead of multiple factions waging war against each other out of inconsolable differences.
They couldn't even commit to red vs blue because every other month they need to band together against a common enemy until they ran out of enemies and blizz had to pull new ones out of their asses.
>every other month they need to band together against a common enemy
Of note, many of those enemies are arguably less damaging to the Alliance than the horde. As an example, Deathwing or the Qiraji didn't level Theramore.
Was Garrosh the best orc villain?
>No demon blood excuse
>No fucking around with stealth or political machinations
>Just killing
He's probably the most realistic villain wows ever had. Shame they had to make thrall into a retard to justify him getting into power.
Garrosh embodied the writers' "we must RETVRN to Warcraft II" idea that characterized the Cata-BfA era.
Even when he double-died in Shadowlands never to return again, Garrosh had zero regrets for what he did and claimed it was all for the Horde.
>Garrosh embodied the writers' "we must RETVRN to Warcraft II" idea that characterized the Cata-BfA era.
Who even started this with blizz? Metzen was still onboard for the first half so it wasn't him.
I believe that was Dave Kosak's doing.
It's really confusing how much Baine and Vol'jin hate him off the bat. Vol'jin's initial complaint is that the war is bringing humans to his shores so Garrosh promises total war on the humans. Baine is even more ridiculous. The humans are trying to pierce into Mulgore and conquer Thunder Bluff and Garrosh is so furious he sends a top general, that guy fails, and he sends another top general to kill the first one and take control of the situation. All of the Taurajo tauren are on board with removing the Alliance from Kalimdor, but Baine treats Garrosh like a heel for it because he's BFFs with Golden's pet blond boy.
>It's really confusing how much Baine and Vol'jin hate him off the bat.
Probably because Garrosh was a noted short-sighted hothead all through Wrath of the Lich King, and now he was the new Warchief, on the promise of Thrall that he will grow into the role. Vol'jin and Baine echoed what Saurfang Sr. told him in Warsong Hold in Northrend: "The modern Horde is everything to me; if you fuck this up, I will kill you myself."
Garrosh and Varian are both hotheads. Varian stops being a hothead in a comic because he took his son fishing or something, but the Alliance never stops waging war on the Horde or tries to sue for peace. Meanwhile everyone in the Horde acts like they have OOC knowledge that Garrosh is going to be the villain in an expansion's time. It always felt to me like Blizzard knew he was unpopular and tried to shape the world around that.
The moment the Horde sees Varian chill out for the first time is when he lets Saurfang Sr. pass unobstructed while carrying the body of his son in Icecrown Citadel. Jaina is brought to tears by the moment.
Varian cooled off in Wolfheart, when Anduind basically told him "Sorry dad but you're being a prick, I'm going to go look at Draenei chicks with Velen now", and he realized everybody kinda disliked him.
And then in Mists, there was that aborted arc where Varian proves his worth as High King of the Alliance by basically impressing every Alliance leader, like being a better tactician than Tyrande or having a better head for diplomacy than the dwarven Council of Three Hammers. This was deep in the "Blue Warchief" era of Alliance writing.
>I believe that was Dave Kosak's doing.
>started at blizz in 2008
well the timeline checks out.
Garrosh was too flip floppy in his characterization until they settled on orc hitler when instead we could have had a no-nonsense horde-first no compromise leader. It's like he's the inverse of tauren who used to be "do no harm, but take no shit" but tunred into pacifist piss babies.
>Garrosh was too flip floppy in his characterization
Lol, this isn't true but the reason for why in hilarious. When garrosh saw the bomb used in stonetalon and executed the guy who ordered it, he wasn't supposed to do that. The writer who wrote that scene misunderstood what he was told garroshs feelings about it were. Garroshs best moment was due to writers miscommunicating.
That makes me even more mad, thank you.
>The writer who wrote that scene misunderstood what he was told garroshs feelings about it were.
What was supposed to happen? Source?
https://www.engadget.com/2014-11-11-alex-afrasiabi-on-warlords-garrosh-and-alternate-azeroth.html
Even better, it was written by afrasiabi, the guy who got fired for raping women.
>He has some severe daddy issues. And we said well look, imagine him as this kid that grew up without the dad, but wanted it so badly.
This sounds like the Horus Heresy writers for Warhammer 40k (30k).
Are all the people working on this shit lacking in this regard? This is disturbing.
Well alex ain't writing for it anymore I'll tell you that much. Apparently he's also responsible for sylvanas going retarded too. Although I don't know if I believe this since it only came out after shadowlands was revealed to be shit. It really feels like the writers scapegoating him.
It was a rumor that Afrasiabi was the one who greenlit the Burning of Teldrassil, to the objection of all the other writers. As if the guy needed to be demonized any further.
The thing with Afrasiabi is, he's a RL misogynist. So his first action as the lead writer was to character assassinate the two most popular female characters in the universe, Jaina and Sylvanas. And while with Jaina it worked, as people began joking that she was replaced by a dreadlord due to how retarded and unlikeable she suddenly became, Sylvanas actually became even more popular, as she attracted the sub and edgy demographics. Afrasiabi seethed and made her absurdly evil, so that nobody could ever like her again. He kinda failed because she was too big to fail at that point, but she also had to be removed from the story because no one knew what to do with her short of a literal retcon.
Source? Is there an interview where he talks about this? Or is this just post-firing writers scapegoating him for their own bad decisions?
I have many sources on him being a RL misogynist, the rest is just deduction. But it's not unreasonable, as he was the lead writer when all these things happened.
>the rest is just deduction. But it's not unreasonable
In other words it's your fanfiction
The word you're looking for is "speculation". If you can't take that, please do everyone a favour and just withdraw from discussion, because we will never know what really happened.
>dude, seriously, just trust me.
>heres what happened
>source?
>I made it up lol
>retard
>HEY I'M JUST SPECULATING HERE! MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST LEAVE IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
retard
>lead writer is not responsible for the writing done during his tenure
Stop defending the rapist.
>if someone is accused of a crime that mean I make up whatever I want about them!
You're a liar.
You also fap to ntr and futa
I won't, your precious Afrasiabi diddled unwilling women and personally killed the Warcraft setting with his biased writing. Dave Kosak, who you had no trouble accusing, just wrote for Cataclysm with Afrasiabi as his boss, and then went on to work on Hearthstone until he left. Your zeal to defend a sexual offender tells me all there's to know about you.
They fuck are you talking about with dave kosak, when was he mentioned?
Read the reply chain. Somebody asked who ruined Garrosh (Afrasiabi), then somebody else said Kosak (the guy who wrote him for one expansion and was long gone by the time of MoP), and then the first guy said "thank you, that explains everything". Where was that zealous scepticism, huh?
You lying dipshit. You're the only person to say that in this thread. Did you think it wouldn't take 2 seconds to check?
Lmao did you just accuse someone of making a post they didn't too? Get a grip on reality.
Getting super desperate, rapist lovers.
Thats quite a bit different and more skeptical than what you said it said. Whatever I'm done with this delusional retard.
Please stop shitting up the thread and just admit you were talking out your ass
It's a human being that none of us personally know. Every time we speak of him, it's fanfic.
>Or is this just post-firing writers scapegoating him for their own bad decisions?
Most likely this. Alex has always been a massive arsehole, looking up his everquest forum posts are a laugh. But a seething neckbeared out to character assassinate female characters? Yeah, right.
He's 100% getting scapegoated like that Zu the Skunk guy was after Fallout The Frontier failed.
"Find the alleged pervert and blame him for all bad writing."
Honestly even most of those "RL Misogyny" cases that came out of that big blizzard metoo moment seem more like women just not being able to stand being spoken to like men speak to each other. Or guys talking about *groupies* at Blizzcon, not coworkers, *groupies.*
Also one was abgout a guy bragging about a prior consensual encounter in a public way that allegedly led to a suicide, I've heard nothing about an actual rape.
Bragging about banging a coworker in detail is a disgusting breach of trust and if that was Afrasabi it's definitely good he's gone.
All workplaces should be strictly sex-segregated for optimal communication.
Dragonflight has good writing, which is a serious argument in favour of that theory
I wouldn't call dragonflights writing good. It really misses the vibe of warcraft if you ask me. It just isn't anywhere near as bad as bfa and sl.
>Dragonflight has good writing,
Ahahahahahah
No.
Also Blizzard just went from "It's okay to steal women's intimate belongings like breastmilk" to "It's okay to steal women's intimate belongings like panties, so long as you plan to wear them" given the colors they're slapping on merch and who made them.
>panties
What the fuck did I miss?
Eh just something from the personal history of the inventor of the trans flag that makes Blizzard putting it on merch as a whitewash very ironic.
I forget if it was a criminal conviction or confession but there was some thievery of women's intimates rather than purchasing or shoplifting going on there.
BFA had some good side content and local politics, it even did a passable job combining multiple previously conflicting lore bits about Zandalar, but was bad on the macro level. SL was god awful.
DF has a lot of the main dragons feeling off, retconns the timeline of Neltharion's fall, takes away yet *more* achievements from Nefarian, and only about a third of the other NPCs you meet seem interesting. Plus it feels compelled to put in contrived heroic sacrifices of characters we've just met like the Drakinoid ...chick? and the bloodelf who was annoyed by having to babysit that blatant Otacon knockoff.
SL had Revendreth, definitely on par with Zandalar. Doesn't redeem either expansion, not even close.
>SL had Revendreth, definitely on par with Zandalar
Revendreth is cool looking and the villain charismatic, but also a bundle of really annoying retcons that sucked dick.
Gargoyles are no longer Northrend natives, the changes to the origins of the Nathrezim AGAIN and honestly the soul economy is just fucking gay.
>Gargoyles are no longer Northrend natives
Did anyone really care?
>the changes to the origins of the Nathrezim AGAIN
For the better, though.
>>the changes to the origins of the Nathrezim AGAIN
>For the better, though.
Nah.
And the entire Anima system is gay. As well as the whole section of those big five, the soul sorter, and the super-duper better-and-older-than-titans that made all of them.
Funnily they pulled the same shit with Centaur in Dragonflight. Here are these better more magical, usually less evil and if evil at least bigger and stronger, Centaur that predate the Zaetar Boulder-banging by over 8 thousand years.
>dragonflight
>good writing
It was a known point for a long time that Garrosh was obsessed with his father Grommash. When we first met him in TBC, he was a mopey little shit. But then Thrall talked up about Grom, how he was the greatest orc Thrall ever knew, how he redeemed the orcs with his sacrifice, and that's what kicks Garrosh in the ass to make something of himself. Everything Garrosh did, from start to finish, was to live up to the image of Grom Hellscream, one of the greatest orcs of all time.
Unfortunately Garrosh never got the memo that Grom was kind of a fuckup until after the 2nd war, and even then he relapsed into drinking the glowing green koolaid during the 3rd war. He did manage to un-fuck things in the end, though, but died in the process.
Grom was fucking great. It's been like a million years since I played the campaign but he was the fuckin best. Swordmasters or whatever his class was should have been a class in WoW.
>Swordmasters or whatever his class was should have been a class in WoW.
That's just Arms Warrior. It even has Bladestorm.
It's pretty ironic Garrosh idolized his father, who was an asshole, while Thrall held onto his idealized view of what the original orcs (who were assholes even before the demonic corruption) were.
I mean the environment in Blizzard seems like of douches with no morality, how can those people write with nuance and having concepts like accountability?
It's because tauren were unwisely modelled after native Americans, and in burgostan it's a worse crime than terrorism to depict them as anything other than living saints who never did anything questionable and were all environmentally friendly pacifist vegans.
I like Gul'dan better, he's a cool evil sorcerer lord. Garrosh's rhetoric is just too close to some RL politicians to not be jarring.
Sure, but Gul'dan took retarded time travel to inject into the plot again, and only really served to get Illidan back after the writers realized how retarded the whole setup in BC was.
Also, the Infinite Dragonflight or the Scourge never managed to burn down Teldrassil.
>the Scourge never managed to burn down Teldrassil.
They actually did, technically speaking
Oh nice, schizo fanfiction in OP. You could've as well posted one that's funny.
i used to have the rpg game book and wasn't that just classic? can't remember
certainly ignore everything beyond at most tbc/wrath, and only include those if you want to go to northrend/outland
>Neltharion creates an army of humanoid Dragon beings
>The purpose is that they will serve as ground troops rather than Dragons themselves, acting as enhanced peacekeepers and enforcers for the Flights
>He uses a Titan artifact to keep them obedient while essentially grafting onto them powers from the other flights, in essence creating the first Chromatic fighting force
>Despite total loyalty, the soldiers end up being pretty shit tier and can't deal with the problems Neltharion needs them to
>He locks them all up underground in stasis, keeping the project around in case of future use.
>When the Dragon Isles erases itself memories of the soldiers also get wiped leaving them stuck in limbo until thousands of years later when the Isles re-enter the world, at which point the stasis begins to fail and the soldiers start emerging from underground
Visuals aside, what's the opnion on Dracthyr origins?
Pointless.
Drakonids and Dracotaur/Dragonspawn were already a thing.
It is kinda funny how Drakonids are just better than Dracthyr in pretty much every way.
Drakonids don't have wings though
Dracthyr are a literal tumblr OC and proof that there was still ample space to fall even lower after the creation of void elves.
We can go lower.
Yeah, I guess there's still Vulperra at the bottom of the abyss.
Design wise they are okay. Lore wise the entire dragon isles is just one big justification for why it wasn't in the MMO till now. In other words contrived shit.
>Walks into Cathedral Ward
>/y * GUNSHOT *
What's the horde RP equivalent?
I can't recall anything that ridiculous, even considering Horde RP centralized in Orgrimmar and Silvermoon.
Ask Ganker questions on Ganker
Female blood elves larping as thuggish orcs in the Wyvern's tail.
Is this supposed to be a half-assed way to spur random RP?
Silvermoon Bazar and / or murder alley
Blood elves stealing Blight from the apothecaries was a common headache when I was an undead RPer circa Cata.
You have to just completely ignore World of Warcraft when it comes to lore. I'm not even arguing whether it is good or bad, the powerscaling is just way too fucked to do anything reasonable in tabletop.
ok boomer
Anon they literally kill several gods every expansion how the fuck are you even supposed to translate that to tabletop? Even in earlier expansions like WotLK you're fighting necromancer lords and giant skeletal dragons as trash mobs.
OH, so they kill several gods you say? Just like in WCIII? cool!
I thought we only killed one? And to be fair cenarius was a bitch-ass as far as gods go.
Cenarius is technically a Demi-God, not a full God
The term "god" is 100% arbitrary in Warcraft. Wild gods are weaker than the leaders of the Burning Legion, naaru or even elemental lords.
There's still lots of good stuff in the MMO you can use. I'd say take the world state at the start of vanilla with Ragnaros through Arthas or whatever still kicking. Cut it off whenever you stopped playing the MMO, dump anything you don't like. Maybe make a couple big changes. Remind everybody that you're not playing a videogame and you have a ton of material in a setting you and whoever you're playing with is probably familiar with.
Kalimdor was already big in WC 3 compared to the original maps Metzen made in 1999.
I would just be happy if they segmented Kalimdor into NE, Horde and Lost World sections.
I am very intrigued by the idea they originally had for WoW where there were no factions but some NPC areas were naturally hostile to certain origins.
>I would just be happy if they segmented Kalimdor into NE, Horde and Lost World sections.
...that's the way it is? You got NE, Horde, Lost World and Silithid segments.
>I am very intrigued by the idea they originally had for WoW where there were no factions but some NPC areas were naturally hostile to certain origins.
Blame the DaoCfags they hired early in WoWs development for that.
According to the lore, what races girls have bushy pubes?
gnomes
Do the carpets match the drapes or do gnomes dye their hair?
nelves and worgen
>blizzard never ever released another iteration of the WoWrpg
but why
It wasn't a success. People would rather play WoW than tabletop RPG of the same setting.
Also, using D&D 3.X wasn't a good choice. I'd use Savage Worlds or Genesys instead
To be fair, that was long before the 5e explosion and tabletop RPGs going more mainstream than ever.
It was never made by Blizzard.
Metzen hated it.
I never really thought of it like that, but it does make sense. The rpg went out of its way to fill in a lot of blank areas, define cultures and worldbuild around otherwise forgettable villain factions, or factions in general. This is antithetical to Blizzard storytelling, which operates on "epic" moments, wide revisions to worldbuilding at the drop of a hat, ridiculous forced contrivances, and whipping out new villains just to kill them off in the same breath (forcing them to make more new villains). One can't have an RPG in a theme park. It's just a ride.
Metzen BTFO
What do you think of Alterac interacting with orcs early on through the Frostwolves?
It doesn't really make sense of them settling in Alterac Valley without anyone noticing them.
Possible, though unlikely. However, whoever's responsible for the pic is an idiot wanking off Alterac where it isn't warranted.
What of it? Perenolde had more problems with Lordaeron than he ever did with orcs.
Incidentally, someone was asking why people were thinking Alterac was culturally Swiss, and the answer is that Alterac is a Franco-Provençal toponym, as used in western Switzerland.
>picking and choosing which MMO lore is worth saving.
By expansion
>Classic
Being the most world focused expansion classic has the most viable lore to steal. Easier to list what's not good like faction conflict and nelves and forsaken joining factions. I think the teldrassil storyline for the nelves is dumb too so just have them live on hyjal.
>BC
Again pretty world focused so a lot is good here. Killing illdan is stupid though and the draenei have to be reworked to not be a forced retcon. Kael-thas doesn't go mad and the blood elves don't join the horde.
>WotLK
Cutting a little deeper here. The main storyline is stupid "muh cycles" bullshit so cut that and have the LK be actually competent. Also the LK never went to sleep, I like the idea from last thread that when arthas shattered the frozen throne all the power leaked from it and the scourge splintered so have the LK be reunifying the scourge in northrend for a while. Vrykul are a good addition and Zul-drak is one of the best zones ever.
>Cata
A fine idea handled poorly. Too much faction conflict and jokes. Garrosh becoming warchief is stupid. Deathwing doing stuff however isn't. Would severely reduce zone changes. Worgens taking over gilneas is a good idea, they joining the alliance isn't. Goblins should stay indie.
>MoP
A bright spot. Keep most of this as well. The Mogu and mantid stories are great. Factional conflict is still dumb.
>WoD
Never happened. Only used for material about pre-outland draenor.
>legion
Saved for later. A lot of the broken isles content is dumb. At least the game was good.
>BfA
Never happened
>SL
Never happened
>DF
Only used for the layout of the dragon isles.
Well, thats my list. I miss anything to keep or cut?
I would absolutely canonise the Zandalari from BfA, also fuck you, broken isles had the best zones.
The Zandalari were canon as early as vanilla. We just never came to their seat of power until BfA.
And before BfA, they were always strictly neutral observers. I still remember the Zandalari rep in Zul'Drak.
>Watch carefully. You're watching the fall of a troll empire in real time.
I tried to revive Lei Shen in Pandaria, and unite the troll tribes against both factions in Rise of the Zandalari in Cataclysm.
Pretty cool trailer
It still hurts how they handled Vol'jin.
They were just an offhand mention and didn't even have a consistent look between expansions (let alone consistent lore), they came with BfA as far as I'm concerned.
The dome was enchanted to be imperceptible until Gul'dan broke the magic. And yeah, you're right, they're totally cooler.
>The dome was enchanted to be imperceptible
fucking lmao
>fucking lmao
Also you
>MoP is a bright spot
Hypocrisy is a bitch eh
Yeah pandaira being hidden is stupid, doesn't stop everything else from being good.
Yeah, I suppose zandalar is good. Also the zones were only fun to play. From a lore and story perspective they were retarded.
>highmountain tauren being the ancestor of kalimdor tauren
>secret OC donut steel elves living under the ocean for 10000 years were raised up by guldan but somehow no one noticed them until bfa and also they have the nightwell which is totally cooler than the sunwell
It sucks dude
OC donut steel elves living under the ocean for 10000 years were raised up by guldan but somehow no one noticed them until bfa and also they have the nightwell which is totally cooler than the sunwell
This was probably the dumbest thing they have ever done, probably just to spite once again NE players.
I would agree with you but then they made void elves
>I would agree with you but then they made void elves
That's to spite alliance players as a whole
>Alliance: Hey High Elves are cool
>Blizz: OK, we give Blood Elves to the Horde
>Alliance: what the fuck
>Blizz: Also we burn Teldrassil and give betterer NE to the Horde
>Alliance: what the FUCK at least give us HEs
>Blizz: here your ugly discount HEs say thank you, peasant, while I go masturbatin to Sylvanas
: OK, we give Blood Elves to the Horde
On top of THAT, they later came up with a mechanic to have a faction (Pandaren) that could choose between Horde and Alliance which could have been PERFECT for the H/B Es.
If they gave no-strings-attached high elves to the Alliance, Horde populations would've been crushed forever.
And now Horde outnumbers Alliance since TFA, nobody cares.
...The Force Awakens?
Clearly, my mind was set to "horrible shit that ruined everything starting with T" and I wrote TFA instead of TBC.
I don't think the Horde outnumbers the Alliance by that much, blood elves sure do help, but the numbers don't feel drastically different and they never have since Vanilla.
I remember a Wrath/Cata-era stat was something to the effect of "2 in 4 Horde characters are a belf paladin and a belf death knight".
No, it wouldn't have been perfect. Blood elves would be fine as their own faction, barring that, they don't look terribly out of place in the Horde because of their relationship with Forsaken and Sylvanas. There's no way in hell they would contemplate re-joining the Alliance after what happened in TFT. And, most importantly, they could never be given to the Alliance because the Horde was already twice smaller than the Alliance in terms of players.
Wut. Horde outnumbered Alliance players 2:1 throughout Vanilla.
That's not how I remember it. Undead couldn't even quest in their own zones because their settlements were permanently occupied by ally gankers and their NPC's were all dead.
That's now how Horde Territory worked.
Mostly Tarren Mill, the single hottest hot spot of world PvP due to its proximity to Southshore.
I know what happened to Southshore was scummy in-universe, but as a player who used to play undead, that was so bloody cathartic.
Oh yeah, Southshore got blighted in BfA.
It happened with Cataclysm, I think.
>That's not how I remember it.
In base of what you write next, I doubt you even played. You cannot be ganked in your own territory even in PvP servers.
Unless you consider Horde territory Tarren Mill or Arathi Highlands in that case, fuck you.
Abso-fucking-lutely not, especially not with night elves and humans in the Alliance.
Lol?
>more people play vulpera than goblins
What's the percentage of furries for each race before and after Vulpera?
Mind you, these figures are ancient. Blizzard removed the glitch that allowed to scan player numbers early into BfA.
>NE Druid
>BE Hunter
Guess people are thirsty for elves and nature
If/when I make a druid, I’m going to do a NE since to me it makes the most sense, and this is coming from someone who has only played Horde in Classic. Tauren and Worgen just feel off.
Hunter though feels like you have a lot of choices, BE, Troll, Dwarf, etc.
>taurens outnumber orcs
Yeah, no. This is bull.
>Horde outnumbered Alliance players 2:1 throughout Vanilla
absolutely untrue
>out of place in the Horde because of their relationship with Forsaken and Sylvanas
The problem with this is the forsaken look out of place in the horde. At least if you view as they were in 3 and not as the evil faction like the devs did. The forsaken should've been their own faction with maybe blood elves joining that if they were to leave the illidari.
>The problem with this is the forsaken look out of place in the horde.
That they do, but eh. That's a whole different problem.
The problem is that from game-balance perspective the Alliance already had massively higher numbers due to most people wanting to play standard fantasy races and/or sexy female elves instead of orcs, trolls, and whatsnot. Giving Alliance another race of sexy elves on top of the one they already had would've skewed the balance even further, resulting in playing as Horde being a pretty miserable experience as you'd struggle to find people for group quests and dungeons and would constantly get ganked by Alliance player who outnumber you faction by 20 to 1. So to balance things out they gave Horde their own sexy elves. And it worked, as blood elves became by far the most popular Horde race and the Horde went from having the fraction of the playerbase of the Alliance to actually outnumbering them.
Like nigh elves and the undead being rolled into Alliance and Horde instead of getting their own factions because from a game design perspective a two-faction system works better, it's another one of those decisions that was pretty much necessary for gameplay reasons even if it's bad from lore perspective (which if why if you want to do a Warcraft campaign you're better off making it an AU version that ignores all the gameplay-motivated changes).
>Like nigh elves and the undead being rolled into Alliance and Horde instead of getting their own factions because from a game design perspective a two-faction system works better, it's another one of those decisions that was pretty much necessary for gameplay reasons even if it's bad from lore perspective (which if why if you want to do a Warcraft campaign you're better off making it an AU version that ignores all the gameplay-motivated changes).
None of this is true. The actual reason WoW has a 2 faction system is because when WoW was being developed the 2 most popular MMO's on the market were everquest and dark age of camelot. Everquest was the more popular one and didn't have a 2 faction system because it was PvE focused. Dark age of camelot had a 2 faction system because it was a PVP focused MMO. When blizz was developing WoW they hired players from both games playerbases cause they knew how MMOs worked. As worked progressed WoW took the shape of an everquest style PvE focused MMO, despite this the DaoC devs pushed hard for implementing a 2 faction system like DaoC despite it not fitting with a PvE focused MMO. They eventually got their way and besides battlegrounds thats pretty much the only legacy of the DaoC devs. Not only was it a bad fit for WoW but it also lead to a huge number of problems down the line, BfA's problems are hugely due to trying to justify factional conflict. Overall the legacy of the DaoC devs is more bad than good.
I wonder what quests and stories would be with less of a faction war.
I wonder if the Warcraft comic would have Varian and Thrall actually make a trade agreement.
Why would the existence of nightborne spite the night elf players? They have a totally different niche. Night elf players were excited to play as nightborne, if anything.
I presume missing the point this much justifies Blizzard - they now write for this kind of retard.
What IS the point, then?
You are genuinely too stupid but others in the thread are discussing it.
Don't reply to me ever again, retard.
I won't deny it, I'm totally missing your point. Actually, I don't think you have one at all.
They had wood elves and high elves, so it shouldn't be surprising Warcraft would take a crack at dark elves.
I think they retconned into most of the Broken Isles, including Suramar as having stayed above water, with only the tomb of Sargeras having been in the bottom of the ocean until Gul'dan raised it.
OC donut steel elves living under the ocean for 10000 years were raised up by guldan but somehow no one noticed them until bfa and also they have the nightwell which is totally cooler than the sunwell
Legion retcons made it so that Suramar proper and the surrounding zones never sank. Only the Tomb sunk. And you also have to consider that WoW isn't geographically accurate
I hate that. Or would be more okay wit it if everything was further away but I know they wanted to have contiguous zones after getting razzed for Cata not having a "Walk to the next zone"
>"No, you have to kill 200 wolves"
>"No, you can't rescue more than two people from this rape-wolves infested slave mine."
How do you like your Lich King?
Merged between Arthas and Ner'zhul or Arthas taking over?
Also should Frostmourne be forged by the Ner'zhul, the dreadlords or the Runecarver?
Ner'zhul, maybe merge. Unless he was severely weakened by the damage to the Throne, there's no way Ner'zhul would've lost a willpower contest to Arthas.
Kil'jaeden.
Ner'zhul is Palpatine and Arthas is Anakin, whose good intentions are manipulated into evil.
I wouldn't make Artha's blameless, but I wouldn't have everyone harp on the Lich King as Arthas. Everyone at large would acknowledge that Ner'zhul is the puppetmaster and Arthas just his meat puppet.
Agree with on the sword. Best to completely ignore Shadowlands.
I don't mind the concept the the Shadowlands existing as a mystical place beyond death. But Blizzard's demystiphying of death is easily their worst narrative decision in WoW. So far.
With Metzen back I have a glimmer of hope they won't go full retard, but I won't hold my breath that he can keep that short bus of a writer's room completely free of derp.
> But Blizzard's demystiphying of death is easily their worst narrative decision in WoW. So far.
Afterlife and time travel are two concepts that require good writters. Blizzard fucked up both.
At least Blizzard made it clear that Past Draenor is its own little bubble of spacetime that doesn't change the main timeline. So that no matter how bad things got there, it could never hurt the main story the way SL has fucked it.
>Merged between Arthas and Ner'zhul or Arthas taking over?
Merged. Maybe leaning towards Arthas, but make it clear they're both in there.
>Frostmourne
Keep it a Legion ploy. I don't hate the idea of the dreadlords being ridiculous traitorous shitbags, but it does kind of take the wind out of the Legion's sails to have *everything* they do be at the behest of some other jackass.
For me I always thought it should be split personalities with Arthas being the more dominant because it's his body housing the LK.
I always thought it was stupid to have Arthas be some sort of unwilling participant in his own fall.
>Set the clock back to Vanilla
>Use the new zones without the stupidity
>Most new races are neutral and toned down in scope
>focus again on the world not on the wanking on the big names
There is nothing principally wrong with nightborne I just want them to have a more nuanced and active interaction with belves and nelves.
So I'm writing a WoW story and my OC sings a song for Jaina when he's 13 and she's 17.
It's based off Praise the Moon of Mene from Dota Dragons' Blood
?si=ax9cf4z3TjVXMJ5Q
>The Admiral's daughter shines so bright
>Her spells they glimmer in the night
>Her smile brings me joy and light
>My heart belongs to you Jaina
>My lady's laughter warms the sky
>When she is near my soul can fly
>I never want to say goodbye
>My heart belongs to you Jaina
>My heart belongs to you Jaina
My intention was for it to be heartfelt but cringy as it's by a 13 year old. Do you think it hit the mark?
It sounds more intellectual than contemporary mainstream pop.
Thanks although that bar isn't too high
My next campaign stared last night, and we're off to a great start. Character creation went well, everyone is excited for their new characters, and for our first outing the squad hunted down a large and aggressive kodo that needed to be killed off for the conservation efforts, only to be ambushed by a gang of poachers! They tracked them to their warcamp, and next week the fight begins.
How's everyone else's campaigns going?
Who are the characters?
I'm a terrible DM and it'll take me 4 sessions to actually remember all the character names, but we have a night elf druid named something Moonshadow, then there's a tauren warlord named Rancor, a dwarven paladin, a human monk, and a blood elf cleric.
nice to see someone building on my night elf empire autism picture.
Remember the nelf empire had magical highways
Did you know that WoW was originally gonna be in the warcraft 3 engine? They started this all the way back in 1999
I think this was before even everquest released so you can see more of an ultima online influence here
Heres all the races from that era. Orc females look basically the same.
The males are closer to the final (back then) iteration than the females.
Why did Blizzard never show fem orcs before?
Did none of them have muscle girl fetishes?
How many women even showed up in warcraft before WoW? The only ones I can think of are Garona and jaina. As much as I hate to admit it more fantasy girls is a positive benefit of feminism on blizz.
The Windrunner sisters. Tyrande and Maiev.
Also Lady Vashj.
Griselda appeared in 1
Who the fucks griselda?
Blackhand's daughter.
Shandris
Female orcs (Garona and Blackhand's daughter Griselda) were in Warcraft 1. Blackhand had a mission to kill his daughter because she ran away with an ogre.
>See pic of Griselda's portrait
Gross, and she isn't even normal for a female orc, no other female orc looks like that lol
Unlucky
This is what female orcs used to look like.
What if Griselda was just a really, really ugly female orc and they were actually usually pretty hot?
Garona is half orc to be fair.
Although I wonder, if Anduin married an orc woman to secure peace would Varian love or despise the half orc grandchildren?
Strange to see even this early in development that the forsaken were part of the horde. No trolls though.
Damn, female trolls used to have heavy knockers.
has there ever been a blood elf or human male reported to find trolls or orcs attractive?
No, I think ironically enough there's only been humans expressing interest in pandaren of all things
Theres that one human in I think BFA that have a threesome with a high mountain couple.
furries represented
There's the Bloodelf male in Swamp of Sorrows who's gone completely tribal-boo.
>Says he finds orc sweat to be an acquired taste
So how often do orc females bathe? Cause I think he'd love Orgrimmar
He was sent to stonard for a reason.
Think of it as a restraining order.
Theres a reason humans call orcs savages. The only time they come even close to bathing is when they decide to go swimming.
there weren't many female orcs in Stonard, but the sheer humidity of a swamp must've caused them to sweat
I imagine he really liked spending time around them
Interesting that the 3rd Alliance race her seems to be high elves instead of night elves, while Horde already has forsaken. I figured that one reason to add forsaken to Horde and nelves to Alliance (aside from them wanting to make representatives of all 4 WC3 races playable but also stick to the 2-faction model) was so that both factions would have one race starting on the "other faction's" continent. Yet at this point all Alliance races would start in the Eastern Kingdoms while Horde would have the orcs and tauren in Kalimdor and forsaken in EK.
No thats a night elf, you can see better here
>Nelf Female incredibly tall and jacked
We were robbed. Although getting rid of the bolt ons was a silver lining.
It is in the WC3 engine. The engine was just expanded.
Do you think the rampant use of steroids among bodybuilders and fitness icons like Schwarzenegger impacted Warcraft body shapes?
If everyone is an empire the word loses meaning.
I have no idea if this is valid in that old world, but in modern wow that would make sense because is a world with multiple small ethnic groups, species and city-states so if the old world worked in the same way...
Empire is a specific form of state organisation. Small ethnic group or a city-state is not an empire. Applying the term to a species as a whole also doesn't quite fit.
>Small ethnic group or a city-state is not an empire.
Yes. But a polity that subjugates many of those is.
And in Wow, if you have a lot of territory it seems inevitably you have an empire.
Sure. Looking at the map in OP, I only object to earthen empire and perhaps vrykul empire being a marked as such.
Guy who labeled the territories outside the nelf empire here. The earthen empire was the one thats most speculative, I remember reading that the earthen had an independent state during the war of the ancients and putting it between the amani and gurubashi empires seemed to be most appropriate but I understand if you disagree. Feel free to mark the borders and name the states as you will.
I object to calling it an empire, which suggest centralized authority ruling over subject states, I know the earthen lived in the area (though probably not to such extent until the Sundering) when they broke out of Uldaman.
Trolls have their empire because each has their subjugated tribes, same with the Mogu. It's more dubious with bugs and Tol'vir, and I don't think Vrykul were organized enough to be called such.
That was the style at the time
I think it's legitimate in the case of the Kaldorei, and to a lesser extent the assorted troll polities. If only because they each were, previously, imperial in scope.
I'd change it so Lordaeron has a land connection to Hillsbrad, otherwise I'm not sure how they'd fend off Stromgarde, Alterac, and Gilneas from carving it up for their own. Also, why is Kharazan its' own polity? And why does the Steamwheedle cartel control so much of Stranglethorn?
for an AU where the Horde and Alliance buried the hatchet
is an outpost stationed by both Horde and Alliance not too out of the question, where the Alliance and Horde are actually working together and not in a cold war?
I know the Dark Portal has both but they also both send adventurers to spy on each other so I imagine there is great mistrust.
That's exactly what happens in Dragonflight
I never played or watched anyone play Dragonflight, only looked at the trailers
NTA, but essentially
>Reliquary and Explorer's League decide to work together instead of starting yet another faction war
>Both get invitwd to thw Dragon Isles to explore and map it out, since after 10,000 years even the Dragons don't recognize it
>There's a couple secondary reasons behind the invite as well, namely getting (You) and any other heroes to go there to fight a cult worshipping elemental dragons
>Also Wrathion wants you there as hired muscle and Alexstrasza wants you there to help the dragons stop being endangered
>Turns out there's four big elemental Proto-Drakes from back when the Aspects first ascended, and they all hate the Titans and thus the Aspects
>One of them reappeared and busted the other three out of prison
>Of those three, one fucks off, one swaps sides, and the last one just really wants to kill Ysera
>Factions work together to kill that last one in the Emeral Dream
>Aspects all got their powers back and Dragons can properly reproduce again
>The End
So the expansion is to basically undo the draconic ballsack-kick that was Cataclysm's ending. I can dig it.
Basically. It also offered a nice bit of cool down period in between world ending threats, like a beach episode, if you will.
The general story concept is alright but the finer details are hit or miss, and some miss very hard. It's very much a filler expansion, which was honestly needed after the train wreck that was Shadowlands.
I always like the idea of running a warcraft game. Then I sit down and try to specifically think of what I'd run and I draw blanks. The rogue gallery with late WotLK as my hard cutoff is so fun and nostalgic to me that leaving any behind is sad. But I'm not sure I'd want to commit to lore-accurate tabletop WoW to be honest. Looking to shamelessly steal and get inspired. What would you run, given the chance?
A Second War campaign leading to the party entering Outland
I've played campaigns as a part of Alliance special forces doing various missions in post-WotLK era, a member of the expedition to AU Draenor escaping from Iron Horde captivity and trying to open a way back to Azeroth, and ran a campaign about blood elves re-taking Quel'thalas before TBC era.
If I started a game I'd start it at low-mid level and have the group be Horde stationed at Grom'Gol. STV start just sounds like fun. It's essentially an island in the middle of hostile territory that's also filled with stuff from the game I could almost 1:1 rip. Jungle adventures, pirates, alliance scouts, trolls doing the hoodoo everywhere, the arena, goblins, Booty Bay. Maybe King Bang attacks the party and after fending him off this funny dwarf named Hemet is impressed and shares his toys with them. I think that sounds like an ideal start that'd offer people a few different directions to naturally take the game in.
What do you think of this Second War political map?
Looks pretty good, except maybe Dark Iron being aboveground.
Why does lorderan control that bit south of alterac?
That's Hillsbrad and Southshore. It's Lordaeron land, but it should be filled with Stormwind refugees at the start of the Second War.
Wait how is it Lordaeronian? If the kingdoms were unfriendly to one another I don't imagine Gilneas or Alterac letting Lordaeronian pass freely to that cut off section.
The map looks a bit inaccurate in that part
I don't think Gilneas ever held that much territory
Yeah Gilneas is WAY too big. It held SOME land north of the wall, but only to Shadowfang Keep. It never went that far north or east. It barely reached to Ambermill.
Gilneas is too big and Alterac has a border with Lordamere Lake, which Lordaeron should control in entirety.
I thin there's a TINY bit of Alterac on Lordamere, that one cabin at the end of a long sloping hill is I think an alterac section.
Alterac needs a coast on ONE of the major lakes at the least, if not the actual coast for the naval powers to fight over in Day of the Dragon's negotiations.
This is entirely a problem created in WoW, the Warcraft 2 map has Alterac further east with a coastline on the Great Sea.
Also, the location of this map more firmly gives Alterac the geographic proximity to the peasant uprising in Caer Darrow that eventually leads into the discover of Perenolde's collusion with the orcs in the WC2 Human Campaign.
I like Alterac being more into the mountains, but having SOME on the coast is good too.
>more firmly gives Alterac the geographic proximity to the peasant uprising in Caer Darrow that eventually leads into the discover of Perenolde's collusion with the orcs in the WC2 Human Campaign.
The books completely threw out Alterac's naval betrayal and attempted capture of Uther on Darrowmere lake.
Made the betrayal more of Perenold just opening a pass for the orcs on the down-low rather than a huge human-on-human fight added for mission variety to the game.
That division of the region is entirely for game region purposes though (to bracket areas by level), rather than necessarily showing political control (and in general the scale of everything in World of Warcraft is way too theme-park sized).
To get discussion started after those diskheads have finished arguing over bullshit, did you know theres a tiny factions of humans trying to establish a human kingdom in the burning steps?
They're called morgans miltia and they want to enforce morgans supposed claim to be queen to the burning steppes. Do you think they have a chance? How do you think a human kingdom in the burning steppes would work? Say something nice about morgan!
>Do you think they have a chance?
Not now that the Dark Irons have joined the Alliance. You think Stormwind is going to jeopardize relations with the Dwarves to prop Morgan up?
>How do you think a human kingdom in the burning steppes would work?
Well, it'd be landlocked, and that's never good for economic development. It's also hot, dry, and has terrible air quality. So... badly, I think it would work badly. On the other hand, volcanic ash can supposedly enrich the soil, so perhaps if the Burning Steppes weren't so hideously dry perhaps it could be a breadbasket. But like, that would still require rainfall. Or at least robust irrigation.
But like, what would attract hypothetical human settlers to 'Morgansland' that wouldn't draw them back to Westfall? Or, hell, to the reclaimed Argent-run Plaguelands? Or to the rebuilding of Stromgarde and Gilneas? Or to distant settlements like Farshire and Valgarde? There are many better options for human pioneers than Morgan's domain.
>Say something nice about morgan!
I admire her determination.
Most of the reason the burning steps is awful is because of ragnaros being in burning core. Before that the steppes were said to be as nice as the redridge mountains. So if people killing ragnaros is canon then the burning steppes should slowly recover.
Isn't it hinted/implied that Morgan is a Black Dragon?
Maybe? She never reveals herself to be one though. As well her militia fights against the blackrock orcs that neltharion leads
>How do you think a human kingdom in the burning steppes would work?
I remember a Warcraft quest on /qst/ had humans from the burning steppes be nomads
>Well if she only wants the southern half that's all Orc and Ogre territory.
That's probably more doable. Still, I can't imagine she'd have many people willing to make the move. I'm sure there's be some, sure, but like... she's got stiff competition.
What would a WoW version of this guy's armour and weapons look like?
bigger shoulderpads with a busy design, low-res painted on legs, god awful looking boots, wearing a tabard to hide the ugly chest piece, ugly gloves, ugly low rez weapon that was shrunk down in size.
I'd keep it all. Yes even the lore you don't like.
But I'd put the focus on small adventures in each of the zones to work as a setting update. Ignore all the big high risk end of the world threats that John Stormwind and Throg Orgrimmar murder hobo.
Keep it simple stuff like go slay the evil Dragon. Then make end game scenarios dungeon tier instead of raid tier.
>How would you fix warcraft lore?
Delete everything after Warcraft 2.
>Hard mode no retcons.
Some magic fag turns back time and everything after Warcraft 2 doesn’t happen.
Where would you go after warcraft 2? Just a repeat of the first 2 wars isn't very interesting. Not that the orcs are in a position to do so.
Ironic, seeing how "retvrn to warcraft 2" fags ruined the setting.
What do you think of Garithos?
It's a shame he wound up being the highest ranking survivor in the region, because he was absolutely the wrong man for the job.
Did nothing wrong
>Verification not required
I wonder if there's any Kael'thas x Garithos fanfiction/art
one dimensional side villain that got memed into being based and cool by contrarians and HFY fags
Isn't it deliciously ironic how the guy lionised by the HFY movement is the one who has forever lost the northern half of Eastern Kingdoms for humanity?
>forever lost
Not if we have anything to say about it!
But these guys were the first Alliance organisation to recognise the Forsaken claim as legitimate
>alliance
Neutral.
It's neutral for gameplay reasons, but come on. They are Alliance paladins.
I figured they were more diverse as a reaction to the comically racist scarlet crusade they split off from.
Funny thing, there are two high elves and a dwarf listed amongst the greatest heroes of Scarlet Crusade.
That's because the Scarlets aren't actually racist but paranoid. They think everyone regardless of race that isn't part of their order is either an unknowing carrier of the plague or actively working for the undead.
They accept members of all races as long as they're wiling to help fight the Scourge and purify the Plaguelands, but the core of their membership is human priests and paladins and their ultimate goal would be to restore Lordaeron in some form. That might eventually bring them to conflict with the Forsaken and thus the Horde since the Forsaken control the former capital of Lordaeron, unless they're willing to settle for establishing a new capital in the former Plaguelands (rebuilt Stratholme?).
I remember reading somewhere the eastern half of lorderan was called eastweald so that could be a good name for the east of their country.
Lordaeron is already restored as a republic, the only caveat is that it's an undead republic. But the argies have never had a problem with sentient, light-worshipping undead.
Not really applicable considering they accept literally everyone willing to fight the Scourge, up to and including those that were formerly part of the Scourge.
It's still a majority human organization.
Speaking of is there any info on what kind of government the argent dawn is planning to implement once they win? Are they gonna restore monarchy in some way or are they gonna make a theocracy?
They're probably going to rally around Calia.
You know I think it'd be much more interesting if the calia we meet is a false calia. Getting a false dimitry action in warcraft sounds like fun.
Never forget Fordring!
This reminds me of the Light's Hope chapel during the opening of Naxxramas.
With the paladins and rogues and other civilized people in the chapel, and my druid looking at a Cenarion Circle elf and an Earthen Ring tauren NPCs just outside, looking at the soil and essentially saying
>It's totally fucking fucked mate
Quite the opposite
>Rimblat Earthshatter says: Watch, druid. The earth still breathes. It yearns to be cleansed.
>Rimblat causes a flower to sprout from a small dirt mound in front of him and Rayne, who applauds him.
>Rayne says: That is wonderous, Rimblat! Even this foul, sundered earth is not beyond healing.
An idiot that soured relations between humans and elves.
A moron and a failure, who died like a moronic failure.
I would have loved to see him risen as a Forsaken as a kind of ironic punishment. It wouldn't work these days though, as the Forsaken are written to have more free will than they used to. Also the obvious fact that the dude was torn apart and shat out by Ghouls.
I'm writing a setting based off Warcraft 2 and I have kingdoms based off Alterac and Stromgarde.
I wanted the Stromgarde expy to have allies based off picrel but I'm wondering what in the heck would the Alterac expy have to even the scales or at least fend off incursions
I feel like it'd be the other way around, since Alterac already has a couple dragons hiding out in it and Deathwing assumed a human disguise hoping to take it after Perenolde's betrayal.
Yeah but I didn't want the dragon descendants to be evil
I mean, they don't need to be, I'm just saying that it feels like the dragons would be in the big fuck-off mountain country if we're drawing comparisons.
Yeah but that kind of makes a problem where I'm wondering how the Horde expy can sneak through without the dragons noticing
But I suppose there's tons of mountain routes, the small evil nation could simply guide them to ones further away
do you ever wonder who in WoW gets the most self inserts from horny women on their dick?
>As you can see, Lothar, yes. I have betrayed our people. But you don't understand. You don't understand the heaven that is going up to your pelvis in green meat. They really are like animals, just like my son always told me. "No father of mine would be caught dead courting an orcess." But once you've had a taste, Isolde from Sunday school who was saving herself for our marriage just doesn't cut it anymore. I was 25 when I had my first rumble in the jungle. And you know what I did, Lothar? For 15 years I prowled internment camps sweeping up every green mama I could find. Big ones, fat ones, short ones, tall ones. Fatherless half-breeds litter the streets of Lordaeron. They still tell stories about me in Durotar, hoots from old ladies about Aiden "Massa" Perenolde and his bag of whips. What I'm saying, Lothy, is if you're gonna do this, you better go all the way. Show my warchief why we've been running the world for thousands of years.
One thing I notice on this map, I thought thousand needles was part of a big river but I don't see it here. What created the thousand needles then?
The wind. It's also very close to the point where Skywall bleeds into reality.
Why did you post a picture of structures caused by water erosion for that pic? Besides we also know there was water nearby with the shimmering flats.
You're also wrong, by the way, the erosion was caused by roots penetrating into the rocks
No I'm not. The pillars were made by the heavy rainfall of the tropical environment.
Wikipedia says something completely different.
Thre'ad Sew, Old God of knitting
Is kael-thas gay? He's hundreds of years old and he doesn't even have a wife yet.
Garithos buckbroke him
Illidan had a bunch of prostitutes in one part of the Black Temple
Kael probably got some of them to dress as Jaina and sleep with him
To answer the image's question. No, Illidan didn't let him, that's the real reason he joined Kil'jaeden.
>kael'thas those human whores have to dress as tyrande
>but all I'm asking is they wash the makeup off and-
>NO
I'm more worried how he got any human whores in the Outland in the first place. It's bad enough that he forced female blood elf warriors into prostitution.
Probably children born to the sons of lothar expedition stuck there. By the time of TBC they should have reached adulthood.
>can't go back and play my copy of WC3 without jumping through hoops because Blizzard is actually, without hyperbole, fucking evil
Tragic
Are there any custom campaigns for w3 that you guys think should be canon?
Anon are you sure you're posting in the right thread?
So Varian was in talks with Lor'themar to get the Blood Elves to rejoin the Alliance before Jaina kind of fucked everything up
Is this actually one of the only big brain moments Varian has?
The high elves have regularly been accused of being fairweather allies, so the blood elves potentially switching sides wouldn't be out of character for them. If they thought Garrosh was a liability and wanted to get out from under him, they would run to Varian.
Jaina really fucked things up for the Alliance huh
Post-nuke warhawk Jaina really poured it on.
Hordefags deserved it.
What should a blood elven second wife of Varian name their children?
Would a more human name work or would Varian allow an elven name since their last name will be human?
You say this like Varian wasn't fucking Valeera's brains into mush.
Isn't Valeera a kid by belf standards?
So why did Doomhammer need to go through Alterac?
Couldn't he have just gone through Lordaeron to get to the capital?
Alterac were humans who threw their lot in with the Horde.
One of the Alliance missions was to wipe them out.
But also, the canonicity of the Orc campaign ends after the Tomb of Sargeras. So Doomhammer was in a position to push onto Lordaeron City after burning Quel'Thalas, but then Gul'dan grabs half the Horde and fucks off to the Shattered Isles. Canonically, after that, Doomhammer limped back to Blackrock Mountain to try to rally what was left of his forces.
So he canonically never razed Dalaran or sacked Lordaeron's capital city.
>just ignore the mountains!
mountains are natural barriers and it would take him lots of time and resources to cross them. Also, many warriors would die crossin them
yeah but he CHOSE to go through Alterac after making a deal with Perenolde
I'm wondering why he chose to go through those mountains intentionally when the route to the Capital via going through Lordaeron was shorter and would be easier, and he wouldn't need to make any deal with Perenolde
Because the way through Redpine Forest either had treacherous mountain passes, or heavily fortified chokepoints.
By making a deal with Perenolde, he had a safe path through the Alterac Mountains, bypassing Lordaerons' forward defenses.
I guess that does make sense.
I wonder if the rest of the Horde would ever honor Doomhammer's deal though. Alterac would only survive as long as Doomhammer upheld the agreement, if he loses a duel I'm going to guess Alterac is dead
Yeah, Horde would probably have wiped them out as soon as they outlived their usefulness.
But Turalyon beat them to it.