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Was it a mistake?
dragon having almost no resistances is retarded
This; fairy type was a great addition because dragons by gen v were basically unmatched as they almost always had coverage for steel types while having higher attacking stats than other types. Game would have been dead by now if powercreep wasn't handled this way.
Why not kill two birds with one stone by making Ice resist Dragon?
I’m a fairy.
Making it basically a better version of Psychic was a mistake but Dragon definitely needed another weakness
I legit don’t get why people get mad about it
lizardmen are spiteful
Most American males are brainwashed to despise femininity.
bullshit, mens test has never been lower and most of them are turning into trannies. Take your boogeymen elsewhere.
There is literally nothing good about femininity
only low T males and self-loathing women think this
Because femininity destroys attractiveness in a man, it's not brainwashing it's a primal instinct that globohomo is trying to destroy because it goes against their agenda.
It doesn't have remotely enough weaknesses to justify being a counter towards meta types
>only two weaknesses are shitty offensive types
>said weaknesses to these types are easily negated by combining with another type
They really didn't think that through.
If you ignore leggos like Xerneas and the Tapus the average fairy-mon is pretty bad, that's how it's balanced
Clefable would be an RU or NU Pokemon by now if not for the Fairy typing. The "Pokemon are bad" defense is a bad one.
Yeah that's generally what bulky defensive types rely on, their type. So you can basically say the same for pretty much any bulky mon out there.
That's a circular argument. Of course types rely on their types.
No, it was a good idea. The mistake was not making it weak to Bug.
It's because they're deeply insecure in their sexual orientation.
It's poorly balanced.
Psychic only took 1 generation to get a nerf.
Dragon and Fighting only took 2, after Outrage was buffed and Close Combat was introduced.
Fairy has been around for 3 gens with no sign of a nerf.
it doesn't need a nerf.
>Dragon and Fighting only took 2
You think Fighting's main counter getting a nerf, and introducing two new types that are both weak to Fighting, counts as a nerf???
I'm sorry I can count and you can't. Two is a pretty high number.
Are you legitimately retarded or is this some kind of bit?
Dont blame the ESL. Imagine if you had to read an entire board in french or spanish, I would fucking blow my brains out
I think I'd get used to it pretty quickly. Those are both easy languages, and English is even easier.
It generally helps to read the entire sentence, anon-kun.
>Dragon and Fighting only took 2, after Outrage was buffed and Close Combat was introduced.
Not 2 after their introduction, but 2 after they got reliable and spammable 120 BP moves.
Because Gen 6 replaced a broken type with another broken type, while buffing another broken type
it's not broken
>while buffing another broken type
steel not resisting dark and ghost anymore is a massive nerf
it needs to be weak to Bug
why the fuck would the nature type be weak to a common thing found in nature?
>why the fuck would the nature type be weak to a common thing found in nature?
Well first of all, how the fuck is fairy "the nature" type? Grass is the closest thing to a nature type.
Which is extra funny, because grass IS weak to bug.
Fairy is the girl type and girls hate bugs, simple as.
>Well first of all, how the fuck is fairy "the nature" type?
Why do you think Xerneas, which turns into a tree and controls life is Fairy type?
Why do you think the move Nature's Madness and the guardians of Alola are Fairy type?
Why do you think Sylveon is named after sylvan?
Why do you think Pokemon like Comfey and Florges which have control over plant life are Fairy type?
Why do you think Fairy is weak to Steel and Poison, both types that represent harm to nature?
>Which is extra funny, because grass IS weak to bug.
yeah, because bugs eat grass. It doesn't eat magical fairies that control nature energy.
Hmm, yes, the nature type.
And how does the living pile of whipped cream that turns into a skyscraper cake tie into nature exactly?
Or the green lady in a dress?
Or fat blue mouse?
Or the living keys?
Or the ghost wearing a pikachu costume?
Or the fucking mime?
It's not JUST a nature type anon. Fire type also represents lava but that doesn't mean every fire type is lava themed.
>It's not JUST a nature type anon
Yeah fairy is a lot of fucking things, and I'm pretty sure there's more fairys that have absolutely nothing to do with nature than that do.
The only remotely unifying theme shared among the majority of fairy types is being cute, pretty or otherwise feminine looking. And girls hate bugs so it should be super effective against them.
>and I'm pretty sure there's more fairys that have absolutely nothing to do with nature than that do
yes just like there's more fire types that have nothing to do with lava than ones that do.
>And girls hate bugs
fairies aren't girls.
But how about Ice
Nature is weakened in the snow right
Petals fall trees lose thier leaves and all that jazz
>Nature is weakened in nature right
Why wouldn't the cute little girl type be weak to bugs?
Why would the magical nature type be weak to thing found in nature?
Because it's not the magical nature type.
Because it's not the magical nature type. It's the magical little girl type.
Steel was fine back when the most offensive Pokemon it existed on was fucking Metagross.
The problem is now that Steel exists on Pokemon with stacked as fuck offenses.
Here you have:
- Dragon's only problem was Outrage spam. STAB Outrage coming from pseudos was too much for most Pokémon that weren't Steel type. Even then it was a move that locked you and gave you confusion afterwards. Just a nerf to 100 would've been enough for people to use Dragon Claw or Dragon Rush instead.
- All noteworthy dragons were already x4 weak to Ice (Dragonite, Salamence, Flygon, Garchomp, Altaria) or/and had other common weaknesses like Rock (all the flying ones) or Fighting (for Hydreigon), or just weak to Ice but with outright shit defenses like Haxorus or Druddigon. The only one "without weaknesses" was Kingdra, which just doesn't have the stats to be a real threat. I'm not counting legendaries because they are in another league and they are not eligible in most tourney formats (be it official or Smogon).
- Dragon was supposed to be a special type in that they have almost no weakness but its type is not effective against anything. Kinda like Almighty in Shin Megami Tensei.
- This being said, dragon was mostly balanced if not for the mentioned Outrage spam.
- They are immune to Dragon, which ends Outrage spam. Ok
- They are supereffective against Dragon, making Dragon have 3 weaknesses now (the usual number)
- They themselves are only weak to Poison and Steel. Two very uncommon attacking types (Poison being only super effective against Grass, which is weak to a fuckton other types and Steel being Rock but without being SE against Flying). Technically this would mean we'd see more Poison and Steel attacks, but they are still horrible attacking types, and most of Poison and Steel types are Defense-oriented.
- They make Fairy SE against Dark and Fighting too, because potato. This gives another weakness (even x4 Weaknesses like Scrafty) to Pokémon that were pretty good but not broken, and now they are useless.
- Psychic's main niche (dealing with Fighting) is stolen. Even more, Fairy can beat Dark, which is immune to Psychic, making Fairy a better Psychic.
- Fairy type is given to very good Pokémon, given to Megas, making it everywhere.
Basically, Fairy type introduction nerfed Dragon, Dark, Fighting (as intended), but indirectly Ice, Psychic (loses main niche), Bug (more Fire to resist Fairy), Grass (more Poison), while not really buffing Poison and Still and giving Fire an undeserved buff.
So now the broken type is Fairy. And it's been like that for 3 gens, now for the 4th without any change
Fire deserved the buff after stealth rock came along and ruined literally every meta for them since it's introduction.
If they wanted to really buff Fire they should've made it SE against Fairy, but that'd be giving one of the starter types a very strong advantge against the others.
Make Fairy weak to Ice AND Bug, while Bug now resists Fairy. Ice is a super common attacking type, while Bug needs a buff.
Fairies now can be sent without fear. If they were weak to a common type (like almost every other type is) it would be different story
They'll never make fairy weak to bug because they don't want uturn to be even better than it is.
The retarded distribution U-Turn gets needs to be axed
Or just make a Normal type copy of the move and make U-Turn's distribution more rare, so making a type weak to Bug doesn't become an automatic death sentence
>laughs in flip turn
Has less BP, and there's a good number of Pokemon with Water Absorb/Dry Skin that can switch into it for a free turn
But yes, Water type U-turn was something no one needed nor asked for
Why does Water get so much favoritism?
I think it's unintentional. The only time the Water starter was the best was Greninja. Usually Grass or Fire get the favoritism in merch, anime, etc, while Water gets the competitive favoritism
>making Fairy a better Psychic.
This is literally my issue with Fairy
What other weakness would you give it
Something that would make you think "maybe I should use a psychic instead"
Make it weak to Normal. Lore being similar to Ghost: "Normal" beings don't believe in either. In practice this might be too tremendous of a blow, with extremespeed and fakeout in particular. But in theory it would balance out the Fairy/Steel type combination. With Return gone, it's not as if everything has access to a good normal move anymore.
Normal because normal people don't believe in fairies and Normal coverage is extremely common.
Fire because of industrial shit. Fire already resists Fairy anyway.
Fire no longer resists fairy but...
Ice resists Fairy (fairies hate winter)
Grass reisists Fairy (grass is similar to fairy)
Rock resists Fairy (magic can be comntained with gems/stones/runes, I'm reaching tbh)
Bus resists Fairy. (bugs can live with nautre spirits)
Fairy would still be good but losing some offensive positives would be a cost that psychic wouldn't have.
>Grass reisists Fairy (grass is similar to fairy)
I'd even go so far as to say Grass should be immune to Fairy, if I wasn't apprehensive about giving a starter type an immunity.
Fairies are supposed to be nature spirits or something, so having them be unable to harm nature would make sense.
Don't forget that fairy moves are also very good, at least on the special side. Moonblast is 95 + 30% drop (compare to psychic or shadow ball, 90/80 + 10/20% drop chance), play rough may miss but also might drop atk, spirit break is 75 power with guaranteed spatk drop, gleam is one of the few spread moves with no downsides.
Then add that there aren't many pokemon that resist fairy, at least in vgc.
Fire? the most used fire pokemon is inci, and he's neutral.
Poison? an uncommon type, Amoonguss and Venu are the only relevant ones
Steel isn't incredibly popular either, except for Zacian.
So you can use your moves without many issues.
Moonforce being a 30% chance to drop is ridiculous
Spirit Break is fine, given it is an exclusive move
Moonblast is imo the best move in the game right now
>Nothing is immune to it
>30% to cripple Special Attackers (which are usually hard to stop)
Only Scald with its retarded distribution of "almost every fucking Water type" can be compared to Moonblast
WHAT ARE YOU THOUGHTS ON THE -IGGLY-UFF LINE?
They seem pretty jiggly
Wiggly > Iggly > Jiggly
Although all completely inferior to both the Clefairy and Chansey lines
based clefable fan
Clef is cute, but Jiggly is bae
The only mistake was making Steel stronger by proxy by giving it a weakness and making Steel/Fairy the best defensive typing possible.
Always liked 'em, even before fairy being a thing. Not sure why they have to keep their Normal typing though.
Wigglytuff desperately needs a buff, the moveset is good but the stats and abilities make it difficult to use over literally anything else.
>Not sure why they have to keep their Normal typing though.
Because they're sound-themed and sound has been part of the Normal type for a very long time.
I guess, even if a singing fairy balloon isn't really that much of a stretch.
What about Primarina? Also a singing themed mon but not Normal
Already has two types.
After Alcremie and Fidough, 100%
>the food type
It's a cool and fresh idea and i'm glad we have it,, but it's a bit overtuned. Steel/Fairy is a hellish type combination that exists now.
hell no it wasn't
singlehandedly made dragon a shit type offensively when it was previously the best type offensively. Fairy would have been fine if it merely resisted Dragon instead of being flat out immune to it.
Did dragon need a nerf? Yes. Fairy severely overnerfed it.
I like it as a new type but it should've been resisted by ice and/or perhaps had a 3rd weakness like Psychic for example.
>a 3rd weakness
bad distribution, it should have been rare like dragon
No, but being outright immune instead of just resistant to dragon is overkill.
No, it's hilarious.
I'm still angry Milotic didn't become Water/Fairy
pro: nerfed Dragon
pro: buff poison
pro: dark resist with knock off buffs
con: replaced ice as the dragon killer
con: the 8th bug resist
con: made the best defensive type a good offensive type
con: is a better psychic type
Nah, it gave a lot of mons that didn’t seem to fit in the normal category a category.
My biggest disdain is how it is thematically a mess, and doesn't seem to have a cohesive theme, an issue which also ends up effecting Psychic type Pokemon as well.
Thematically, Fairy Pokemon should've been moreso for fairy/youkai/mythological creatures who explicitly use naturalish magic. Many Pokemon were given Fairy type despite having no real reason to have it aside from "It's cute". Marill and Jigglypuff's line didn't need to be Fairy type.
Nah, I think fairies are cool
Also having an "antagonist" type for dragons just like psychic & dark fits very nicely
My autistic headcanon of rivalries:
Fire - Water
Grass - Bug
Ground - Electric
Fighting - Flying
Psychic - Dark
Dragon - Fairy
Rock - Ice
Normal - Ghost
Poison - Steel
>Normal - Ghost
>~YA TAKE YOUR NORMAL TYPE A LIKE JIGGLYPUFF, AGAINST THE GHOSTLY GENGAR, BATTLES REAL TOUGH!!!~
Thought it was at first, but as time has come by I have started to appriicate the fairy type more. Plus dragon did need the nerf.
Dragon did need a nerf, but not to be made utterly useless.
Just nerfing Outrage would've been fine, but that doesn't sell plushies
They’re cute so no
Not making it weak to Bug was the biggest "You had one job" moment in Pokemon history
Faires are cool.
It wasn't inherently a mistake. Only the way it was implemented was flawed.
They should have called the type "Light".
Next to Steel and Poison, Grass and Ice should resist Light (but not Fire!).
Light and Dark should be very effective against each other.
Doesn't matter if you're not a compfag
fairies and peoples reaction to them are the funniest thing ive ever seen
fairy steel was a mistake
fairy should be weak to fighting but pokemon is woke now so the implications would be too much
it forced to rebalance Steel which actually brought more issues in general, mainly Ghost being nearly unstoppable
making its only weaknesses Poison and Steel was retarded, either make it Poison or something else or make it completely something else
Poison and Steel are basically the same type in what you do with them except Steel is one of the best and Poison is one of the worst
together with everything that came with the 3ds era and beyond.
Nerfing steel/psychic and making steel/fairy was a mistake
No, because it blessed us with this sexy creature
So is everyone just going to ignore that outside of legendary pokemon, fairies kind of suck in general?
The only two good ones are probably Clefable and Togekiss.
>Clefable and Togekiss
Clefable still loses easily to physical attackers. It's also kinda slow.
>Clefable still loses easily to physical attackers. It's also kinda slow.
No it doesn't. There's a reason it's been a top 10 Pokemon in OU for 3 generations running now when it was never OU before (it found a niche in Gen 4 OU a handful of years back since Magic Guard wasn't nerfed yet and Gen 4 was defined by chip damage which Clef ignored entirely). "Bad" Pokemon being given a type doesn't make the type balanced. The type is still imbalanced as fuck, but it's less apparent to casuals.
>No it doesn't. There's a reason it's been a top 10 Pokemon in OU for 3 generations
Being in OU doesn't mean being overpowered and having no counters. Clefable still stays slow and not able to take multiple physical attacks if it doesn't run Cosmic Power.
>"Bad" Pokemon being given a type doesn't make the type balanced.
Types, moves and pretty much anything else don't exist in a vacuum. It would be like complaning about giving a 200 BP move to Unown just because hurr durr big number.
I even remember Whimsicott, Klefki, and Primaria being really good at one time or another. Fairy is overpowered and it's the main reason for people not liking it.
Half of these aren't used because Fairy, that would only really be Togekiss and Clefable.
>Being in OU doesn't mean being overpowered and having no counters.
It very much is overpowered and has very few counters. Most Clefables in OU run a lot of defense EVs and absorb physical attacks extremely well. It has recovery, too, so it can continue to eat physical attacks for days. It's incredibly hard to kill due to that and Magic Guard, meaning you can't just stall it out.
It being slow isn't a weakness, and it isn't physically weak.
>Types, moves and pretty much anything else don't exist in a vacuum
Types can because every Pokemon has a type. Moves and abilities can be limited in their spread, but everything has a type, and every Fairy is better than it should be by virtue of its type.
>It very much is overpowered and has very few counters.
Literally any fast physical attacker with any move not resisted by Fairy.
>It being slow isn't a weakness
Are you serious now. It's the biggest weakness along the fact it needs to setup, which means there are many mons able to damage or taunt it.
>and every Fairy is better than it should be by virtue of its type.
Which is okay if the type is given only to what's naturally not so strong.
>being vulnerable to Taunt isn't a weakness on a pokemon that needs to set up
Clefable doesn't need to set up. It can run Calm Mind, sure, but it usually runs a utility set. You taunt Clefable and it just knocks off your item and switches out.
>You taunt Clefable and it just knocks off your item and switches out.
You can do this with almost any Knock Off mon. Only reason for why you are using Clefable in this case would be baiting the opponent into thinking it's Calm Mind.
Clefable can also run Calm Mind and be a win condition, but by the time you switch in your Taunt Pokemon it'll have set up a Calm Mind and just hit it with a Moon Blast when you Taunt.
>+1 0 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 208-247 (57.4 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's basically the only Taunter in OU getting 2HKO'd after one CM. Good answer.
>you can have a mixed set Clefable but I can only use Tornadus-T for taunt
Lol fuck off.
What the fuck else are you going to use? Weavile dies in ONE Moon Blast.
I have seen Tapus running Taunt often enough.
Fini usually runs it, but CM Clef usually runs Thunder for that exact reason. One CM boost in and its Moon Blast leaves Fini down enough to die to one Thunder
>+1 0 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It doesn't even register as a top 15 move for Tapu Lele, and it just makes the top 10 most used moves for Tapu Koko with 8% usage.
Can we not do this "but your Clefable runs every move at once" shit.
We were talking about CM Clef though
Clefable is mainly just happy to not be a normal type so it can't get beaten into submission by close combat.
Primarina is still really good, it's just outclassed by Tapu Fini which has the same type. It's easily the best of the 3 Alola Starters
Alolan ninetailes isn't good because of it's typing, it has aurora veil and that's it. And if anyone here wants to say it's good outside of using that move, they're a fag.
Fuck off with Sylveon.
Azumarill is just a gimmick, that will lose to anyone that has a single brain cell.
Megas you don't have to deal with anymore, but yeah mega mawile was annoying at times. Though I have no clue in hell what you're talking about with mega gardevoir.
>Alolan ninetailes isn't good because of it's typing, it has aurora veil and that's it. And if anyone here wants to say it's good outside of using that move, they're a fag.
You might actually be retarded. Alolan Ninetales is stupid strong, not just because of Aurora Veil. Vanilluxe also has Snow Warning + Aurora Veil + Blizzard. It doesn't have the Fairy type, though.
>Fuck off with Sylveon.
lmao. lol even
>Azumarill is just a gimmick, that will lose to anyone that has a single brain cell.
Azumarill has several gimmicks. It's still a great Pokemon that would be much worse if not for the Fairy type
>Megas you don't have to deal with anymore
You don't have to deal with a lot of things because of the dex cut.
Would anyone use Alolan Ninetales competitively, if it didn't have aurora veil?
>isn't good because of it's typing
This is also true for... every fucking pokemon ever.
Delibirdbros, you heard it here first, we're good now. It's our time.
>isn't good because of it's typing
This is also true for... every fucking pokemon ever.
Delibirdbros, you heard it here first, we're good now. It's our time.
Delibird is also a lot slower, which sucks when you want to get the veil up as quickly as possible.
>Would anyone use Alolan Ninetales competitively, if it didn't have aurora veil?
Bad reasoning. It has the same niche as Vanilluxe, but with the Fairy type added, ergo the main reason it's always used over Vanilluxe is due to the typing. Vanilluxe hits incredibly hard and used to be used on hyper offense Hail teams, but even HO Hail now runs A-Ninetales because it's straight up better even if it doesn't hit nearly as hard.
So I see we're just going to ignore people just use it to set up aurora veil, but alright whatever let's somehow try to it's because of that fairy typing.
When it clearly couldn't be that people use it because it's speed is significantly higher than Vaniluxe or Delibird as the other anon brought up. Because clearly you don't want to set up defensive utility quickly, you want to go as slow as possible for your opponent.
The speed difference is the only other real point in A-Ninetales' favor, but being the fastest Aurora Veil setter isn't enough to make it OU. Aurora Veil is besides the point since its Fairy typing makes it better defensively and offensively than Vanilluxe.
It's pokemon, speed is generally everything if you're not bulky. Being a fairy is only a cherry on top if anything.
It should've been weak to and weak against bug. What the fuck were they smoking.
Yeah that's actually a change I wanted to see, though more so just to see bug types get a bone for once.
Vanilluxe IS bulky. 71/85/95 defenses makes it about as bulky as Clefable. It just doesn't have Fairy type as a crutch
It's an ice type, sothat's not really bulky all considering that.
If only Ice type were immune to Dragon
That's not an argument. Outside of psuedos and legendaries, Dragons kind of suck in general. And yet they got absolutely crippled by the nerf bat.
You see how you had to add psuedos there to cover your ass.
I didn't have to add it there to cover my ass. Psuedos have 600 BST, the same as Mew, and more than a good chunk of legendaries. Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Entei, Raikou, Suicune, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Azelf, Uxie, Mesprit, Thundurus, Tornadus... I could go on. All of them have lower BST than psuedos.
I said that because there's quite a few psuedo dragons, so you were cutting the list really damn short to make your point.
dragon is the pseudo type
There are psuedos that aren't Dragon.
there are TWO pseudos that aren't dragons, and one of them was introduced at the same time as a pseudo that is the most dragon-like dragon pseudo of all
By Gen 5, there were 6 Psuedos, and a full 1/3rd of them weren't Dragon. Dragonite had also just come to relevance for the first time due to getting Multiscale, an ability that only Lugia has otherwise. Without some retarded balance decisions, there would only be 3 relevant Dragon psuedo legendaries in Gen 5.
There are plenty of non-psuedo Dragons that didn't deserve the nerfbat, and I'd argue that Hydreigon and Salamence didn't deserve it either.
Maybe because removing legendary and pseudos leaves you with almost no dragons.
for the life of me i cant figure out why fairy isnt weak to fire. i would say that fire, steel, and poison are the 'industrial' types and in fantasy fairies are vulnerable to industrialization.
because they were worried about making fairy too weak so they only gave it two weaknesses, and they happen to be the two best possible weaknesses any pokemon could have
>fairy isnt weak to fire
All drqgons can lea4n fire attacks and most dragons have stupid sp. Attk. Stats to make use of it.
They wanted to put dragons in their box, not give them a guaranteed out.
It's been a boon for Poison usage, which is my favorite type. I don't really like using Faries though, only used Grimsnarl and Gardevoir. I would use Togekiss too if it was Fairy in HGSS
Yes it was a mistake. It was created as a hamhanded way to nerf dragons when there were more elegant solutions and then became the "please buy plushes of our uguu~ cute creatures" type instead of having any cohesion other than pink.
This. Fairy should be removed entirely and
>Poison should be made super effective against Water
>Steel should regain its resistance to Dark
>Ice should be made immune to Dragon
Currently in OU, there are
>3 Dragon types
>4 Psychic types
>1 Rock type
>2 Bug types
>2 Ice types
>2 Poison types
>3 Dark types
>5 Fairy types
>more Psychic than any other type except Fairy
Victini (just barely made the usage cutoff for the tier, OU by technicality at this point)
since psychic is usually agreed to be kind of shitty, doesn't this suggest that being overrepresented in OU doesn't say anything about a type's balance?
2 of the Pokemon are essentially the same (Slowbro and G-Slowking) and one is Lele, which is also part Fairy and relies on it defensively. Psychic is also the 5th most common type in the game, and for how many Psychic types there are they are vastly underrepresented in the higher echelons of play.
3 of them are the Tapus, the other is the designated hail setter and Clefable
Can't have Gardevoir being quad weak to Bug.
Should have been weak to Bug and had Grass or Ice resist it instead of Fire.
>should have [things that make less sense]
No, best type
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