Was scaling that hard to implement?

I dont really get how you are supposed to progress through the game, i thought it was gonna be related to proximity, checking wild pokemon levels and obstacles that needed to be climbed or surfed through, however, this is barely ever the case. I just beat whatever i find using strategy, even if i'm not supposed to beat it yet, and then the lower level battles i just end up doing them too late and suck. The challenge from being underleveled is fun, but it makes the overall experience inconsistent, i'd prefer being slightly underleveled in all matches if possible.
>Encounter Great Tusk
>Team is below lv 30, havent battled a single route trainer
>Unable to see its level
>Destroys my team
>Realize that it cant OHKO clodsire
>Use yawn next try
>Spam Lunge with Lokix to lower attack
>Kilowatrel (or almost any other flying type) solos
>2nd phase
>realize that i'm not supposed to battle this thing when partner was lv 45
>Beat it anyways
>Somehow the gym and the team boss literally next to it are lv 30 and 20 respectively
>Same thing for Tatsugiri who is just above these, partner was level 55
>Manage to defeat it using arboliva for first phase, 2nd phase i manage to hit a salt cure and win
Scaling is not so hard to implement, the game is tracking in what order you are defeating everything anyways.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why would they implement something that makes the game worse? What's the point of having levels if EVERYTHING IN THE GAME has the same level as you?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So you don't have to slog throuh a piss easy minigame and then fight a level 13 gym with level 50 pokemon because you went the 'wrong way'. Gyms should always be a challenge, and you can still block off areas with higher level pokemon since it makes sense not to scale those.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >So you don't have to slog throuh a piss easy minigame and then fight a level 13 gym with level 50 pokemon
        I took the time to get my Pokemon to lv50. Why should that be nullified and make levels entirely pointless?

        >Gyms should always be a challenge
        Ah yes because all know the gyms in previous games like gen 5 that were scaled due to the forced railroading were challenging and definitely not trivially easy.

        minimum levels retard. the level 50 will always be at least level 50 but the grass gym wont be level 15 if you do the left side first

        >but the grass gym wont be level 15
        Why should I bother leveling up if the gyms are just going to stay equally as strong as me?

        Strawman

        You don't know what strawman means

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Why should I bother leveling up if the gyms are just going to stay equally as strong as me?
          give it a max level too then. it's retarded that you are supposed to go to places on opposite sides of the map that have suggested levels 1 or 2 away from each other. nobody playing without a guide will do them in order so half the time it will be a stomp

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >give it a max level too then
            It does. The max level is 15.

            > it's retarded that you are supposed to go to places on opposite sides of the map
            You're not "supposed to" do anything. It's an open world game. You can do whatever you want. That's the point. Whether or not you can actually accomplish those things depends on your skill level, which is the entire point of scaling not existing. If the game had scaling it would be retarded boring garbage where you can just mindlessly mash A in any direction without having to think or engage with anything.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              stfu retard, your opinions are trash

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >The only possible way that scaling can be implemented s to make everything easy
              you are generally braindead lmao, tell the doctor to pull the plug

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This. It's even been established in canon that gym leaders are supposed to pick their teams based on the strength of the challenger. Lorewise level scaling is an essential part of the league storyline

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >It's even been established in canon that gym leaders are supposed to pick their teams based on the strength of the challenger
          Lt. Surge has the exact same team regardless of whether you fight him 3rd or 7th in every single game he shows up in as a Gym Leader.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            In the lore, retard. We've already established that Gamefreak is collectively too smooth-brained to handle this concept.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          When was this established? It’s always been my head canon

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            In Pokemon Origins. Brock asks how many badges Red has, so he can pick his team based on that.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      minimum levels retard. the level 50 will always be at least level 50 but the grass gym wont be level 15 if you do the left side first

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Are you actually retarded? That's how Pokemon games have ALWAYS worked, the Gyms have always been tuned to be slightly stronger than you and route trainers tuned to be slightly weaker / the same. This doesn't suddenly become terrible, impossible, unimplementable just because the game is open world. Consistently rising challenge is good.

        Wild Pokemon levels should be set (so there are "hard" areas and "easy" areas and they don't change from the beginning); this creates the sense of progression you're looking for where you can travel back to old areas and they're easier to get around than when you first travelled through. Trainers should have a minimum level that corresponds with the difficulty of the area, but then scale up from there as you surpass them. This means that you can truly do the game in any order without completely undermining any content you were "meant" to do earlier, which itself undermines the entire fucking point of open world if there's an intended order.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          shut up, you're not supposed to offer good ideas
          you're just supposed to say that the way gamefreak does things is perfect and that anyone that disagrees is a retard

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Strawman

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not necessarily scaling to your level, just changing the levels according to the order of your progress, if you have defeated x important bosses, whatever you face should have a certain level. Or at least use proximity and obstacles correctly if you dont want to do that.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Scale by gym/boss count, dumbass. So if the game has 18 bosses which I think it does between the team admins, gyms and titans, then you have 18 FIXED sets for each boss. Why do retards like you think 1:1 level scaling whenever anyone mentions scaling? Are you that close minded?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >they don't need to scale by killing any sense of progress retard, they just need to scale by killing any sense of progress
        incredible solution! bravo!

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >bosses go from using three fodder pokemon to full teams of six higher leveled mons to reflect that your threat as a trainer is rising
          >killing any sense of progress
          Admit you just want to steamroll through the game

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Admit you just want to steamroll through the game
            If I wanted this I would be another reddit NPC begging for scaling.

            What I suggest would literally, and I mean in every way of the word, be functionally identical to how every Pokemon game has ever done it. Gym 1 has a fixed team, so Gym 2 has a fixed team with higher levels, Gym 3 has a fixed team with higher levels, and so on.
            It'd work THE SAME EXACT WAY except with interchangeable order. Dumb motherfucker.

            So you want the progress to be lost and the entire game to be piss easy since nothing is ever a substantially higher level than you, got it.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The only thing fighting a much higher leveled than you opponent early in the game does is make you overleveled for whatever you "skipped". If you think this is enjoyable then you just have complete shit taste in video games.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I've noticed that the anons that defend this shit design and call it "challenging" completely ignore the fact that going out of order and doing the harder gyms first just makes you vastly overleveled for the majority of the game. "Oh you beat the lv30 gym leader first? Having fun button mashing through the previous gyms" or "Oh you level grinded enough to beat the final Lv50 gym first? Having fun curb stomping now that every trainer is now just a Joey"

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                But in gen 5 you're button mashing gyms regardless and Ganker loves gen 5, I don't see the issue.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No one cares about your unhealthy gen 5 obsession, we're talking about gen 9

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no one mentions gen 5
                >schizo alone bring it up every time he has to retort because he doesn't have the frontal lobe development to come up with a coherent argument instead
                Love to see it, keep it up.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >game has no level scaling
                >overleveled for only some of the gyms
                >game has level scaling
                >overleveled for every gym
                wow great solution

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What I suggest would literally, and I mean in every way of the word, be functionally identical to how every Pokemon game has ever done it. Gym 1 has a fixed team, so Gym 2 has a fixed team with higher levels, Gym 3 has a fixed team with higher levels, and so on.
          It'd work THE SAME EXACT WAY except with interchangeable order. Dumb motherfucker.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >What's the point of having levels if EVERYTHING IN THE GAME has the same level as you?
      Anon have you ever played a Pokemon game before? Every game is already paced this way for the most part

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >every game is boring garbage where you mindlessly mash A to progress
        why would I want this AGAIN?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >What's the point of having levels if EVERYTHING IN THE GAME has the same level as you?
      Challenge.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >what's the point of VGC and competitive pokemon? Every pokemon is the same level as mine so it's easy

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        VGC isn't structured like an RPG where I have to make progress through an adventure, retard.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Scaling could be neat

    I went from a lvl 20 area to 50 accidentally they were like right next to eachother lol

    Kinda assumed going in a circle would be the gym order but they appear to have you swapping east and west for progression which is odd

    Kinda like it with this odd stuff tho

    Maybe scale things up to your level but don't scale them down

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i think if there isn't going to be scaling, then at least somehow signal the level brackets of the areas, like maybe the map will show the level once you've entered the zone?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Wild Pokémon kind of do that, but yes I would have liked the WoW approach with level brackets for each zone. They should have been more bold, increase the difference in levels between gym leaders, and it would have worked fine.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That was part of the odd fun tbh randomly encountering a mon that just beat the shit out of me was pretty funny

        Just scaling up so you can't get too over leveled would be my choice

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Early game is fine.
    Mid game sucks and you're way too overlevelled.
    Late game is fine again.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The game is fine if you keep switching out your pokemon to be at or below a certain level.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Early game is fine.
      disagree. by the time i make to the bug gym my team was already 10+ levels above it. by the third gym i stopped playing because the game was a snorefest. gonna wait for xp reducing mods.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Honestly never understood this argument. In what world does grinding constitute challenge?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >10+ level above first gym
        That must've had you at least around mid to late lv20. Were you grinding and exploring a lot? Because I took my time going to the first gym while battling every trainer and most wild mons on the path and I was only a 1 or 2 over.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because Pokemon grow at different rates and get much different moves and stat lines each.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This could be easily solved by having gyms and story fights always scale to the highest level Pokemon in your team (with some of their team being slightly lower and their ace being a couple levels higher), but Pokemon in the wild remain static.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I thought you meant the ever present complain about scaling models which they STILL cant fucking figure out.
    No, fuck level scaling and open world and fuck the retards that ever came up with it and any game it has plagued. If you want a shitty open world, you have to at least accept that the world doesn't revolve around you. It also invalidates any concept of actually levelling and growing stronger if everything is the same level difference from you forever.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not having scaling in some form is a huge mistake. Like sure you can explore anywhere, but specifically leveled zones only create the illusion of choice when you can optimally just go in a set path that's accurately tuned.
    Hell just raise the top level of every trainer by idk, 5 and the level range for wild pokemon by 3 or so.
    Have some optional fights in each zone like SWSH do that have their own set levels as major challenges you can do
    Make it so you can explore in any way you want, choose your order and better tailor the game to your journey.
    The chance was right fucking here

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Talking about the illusion of choice.
      If you're playing blind then your exploration will get screwed because of the legendary upgrades (specific to a titan) and that you can't catch an obedient pokemon above your badge level bracket.
      I think the Team Stars stuff is the only content you can do whenever.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >illusion of choice
      This pretty much sums it up. It's "open world" on that you can technically go in any order you want but if you do, the game feels like an unbalanced mess where you're too over leveled for half and too over leveled for the other half, and playing while underleveled feels more tedious than challenging.

      Previous games said that all gym leaders in canon scale their party in canon to match the trainer challenging them but here that is definitely not the case. It's easy enough to balance/scale the wild areas by both strong and weak mons in the same area, just do what PLA did and give the stronger mons some kind of indicator that they are too strong and should be avoided until you've leveled up enough

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When has scaling ever not ruined a game

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can't wait for Ganker in 2 years having realization threads about how open world is a shit concept, especially for rpgs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Don't conflate level scaling being a shit concept for open world being a shit concept, BW2fag.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Rent free

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        don't hold your breath.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >you stumble into an area where you are underleveled
    >you either grind through wild pokemon with auto battle or cheese through the braindead AI by exploiting status effects/buff/item spamming

    congrats, now you're over leveled for the rest of the game. Such challenge, such wow. This is what happened with me having a lv30 party and backtracking to the areas where everything is lv5.

    I'm curious how general audience(mostly kids) will react to this game with it being less linear and giving no fucks of you accidentally challenge a trainer/titan while being too underleveled. And the "help I'm lost" tips are worthless because it's completely retarded and gives you the worst recommendations like telling you to challenge the gym that's 20 levels above you

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm glad this game has level scaling and doesn't allow me to fight the gyms out of order. It definitely makes the game a nice balanced experience and definitely doesn't make the entire game piss easy 🙂

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I intentionally played while making sure to keep my level low and battling the gyms and star members that had the higher level than and I can say that even if they were scaled, they wouldnt be a challenge because it's the same 3-4 slots filled with shit mons that anyone could sweep through with a basic set up. They should definitely give the AIs more status reset/punishing moves or nerf the mechanic in general because it only takes a single swordance/nasty plot with decent speed and you instantly win.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Actually obsessed and obviously irritated enough. wow 🙂

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Katy>Brassius>Iono>Kofu>Larry>Ryme>Tulip>Grusha

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem is that pokemon uses static encounter tables for other trainers.
    Their teams have not only predefined levels and moves, their IVs, EVs, abilities and items are chosen by the developers based on the point in the game in which the player encounters the trainer.
    It is possible to set different teams based on the progress of the player but that is too hard, consumes too much space and could mess up with the battle AI.
    That is why is usually limited to two sets, pre- and post- champion.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >People actually expect GF to put minuscule effort into making challenge and scaling

    They're so confident in what they can get away with that they just made a regular story mode but without the roadblocks and called it an open world game. Itll be fun hearing about all the players who avoid all the trainer battles and wild pokemon and get surprised by the first mandatory battle that stomps them because they are 30+ levels under

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are areas numbered on the map like this in-game? That looks like a pretty good guide for the best/intended order to go through the game so you don't get your levels too screwed up

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Are areas numbered on the map like this in-game?
      no, for once the game doesn't treat the player like a retard and it expects you to figure out if an area is too high level for you or not.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This caught me of guard because I was skipping past wild mons that were only level 15 and best. I cross a small bridge and bump into something and now they're all level 50 and you cant run away til they knock out at least one mon(or if you challenge a trainer without knowing any better, you get your whole team killed). It's funny how they went from holding your hand way too much to just pushing you out into moving traffic. They easily couldve at least put up signs that said "hey, the shit here is fucked, recommend having at least this many badges before entering"

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Literally hold ZL to check wild mons levels in the overworld before battling any. Can't believe you fuckers actually needed the handholding, after all.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        On the one hand, it's cool that the game lets you explore, but on the other, that sounds like an easy way to end up stumbling into story stuff too early. Like the Gyms and Star Bases are probably easily dodged because they're actual buildings you can see before you enter them and can steer clear of if you don't want to take them on yet, but the Titans are just hanging out in the open, and they probably have an intended story path you're supposed to follow that'll get thrown off when you accidentally find one and trigger the encounter. Would be nice to at least know the order for them to avoid screwing up the story.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm an adult with average problem solving skills and at 2 points, I got tired of looking for which areas i wasnt too underleveled for so I had to look at this a couple times for guidance. Will kids manage and normies manage? You can brute force level grind the or spend the time to level check every area until you get lucky enough with a level that you can handle.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ANY FORM OF SCALING IS BAD BECAUSE... IT JUST IS, OKAY?!?!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You have been told from a bunch of different posts about how scaling is nonsensical in an rpg with a levelling system. Might as well remove levels altogether, they actually serve no purpose at that point. You are complaining that you overlevelled an area that was designed to be done much earlier because you went to a high level area instead, yet that is what an open world is. It's not a sandbox for you to play with your shit all day. If you scale the goals every time then there is no progression path in the game. It's a simple stagnant point moving forward.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Scaling wouldn't make levelling pointless. Levelling is still important for evolving most mons and getting better moves.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why would I need evolutions or better moves if everything in the game is on par with me already?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You do know that the base power of moves doesn't scale with your level, right? Even with scaling, at a certain point the AI will start using moves like Fire Blast or Thunder.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because it wouldn't be? You beat Gym 1, whichever one that is, and now whichever Gym you challenge next is a higher level that you need to work to reach. Look, I'm on the side of a more linear story, but this isn't that hard to comprehend. No one in favour of level scaling is talking about 1:1 matching.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >that you need to work to reach
              But I don't because by the time I reach that gym my levels will match. All you did was make the game homogenous garbage.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So let me get this straight, I think I've locked down your point of view.

                You're saying that level scaling is bad because it would make the entire game too easy (A Pokemon game, mind you). So instead, what you want is something just like SV, where there are a few high level gyms you can challenge whenever you want, have a tough time beating, and then the game becomes piss-easy because you already beat the hardest parts. You can't imagine any possible way that the games could be scaled better to make the entire campaign challenging, so you want a few hours of difficulty and then to put the game down 30% through and never pick it up again. And you think that's good game design.

                That sum it up? Because man, that is just...wow. I mean the answer, a few answers, actually, are staring you in the face, and you are determined not to see them

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You're saying that level scaling is bad because it would make the entire game too easy
                correct

                >and then the game becomes piss-easy because you already beat the hardest parts
                some difficult gyms > 0 difficult gyms

                >You can't imagine any possible way that the games could be scaled better to make the entire campaign challenging,
                in an open world game? without making progression pointless? no.

                >so you want a few hours of difficulty
                as opposed to zero hours of difficulty, yes.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                outsider anon here, just been following the conversation. What about a third option, where with levels comes tactics?
                For a base assumption, take a completely open world game, challenge most of the gyms in any order, outside of maybe the first and last, for consistency. Each gym you beat ups the difficulty of the next, from adding more Pokemon to the teams, higher levels, to them actually using gimmicks like hazards, status effects, and the like.
                Outside routes should still be locally scaled, though more Badges could possibly either increase the range of Pokemon that appear, or give chances of stronger Pokemon appearing as a challenge for the area.

                There's a middleground where you can scale gyms/encounters to the player, without making it just a numbers game. Maybe the Fire Gym is just a statcheck in the first 3 fights, but after wards starts using Sun strategies? Poison Gym that uses Stall tactics if you come at them last?
                And, most importantly, you can make this scaling into an optional setting, so the kids can have an easier time.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why are you retarded. Were you dropped on your head as a child?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No, the "all level scaling is bad!!!" arguments are retarded because it exists under the assumption that there is only one possible method of implementing scaling and that it involves completely destroying any sense of progression.
        Ideas like

        >have a "recommended" order everything
        >beating one of the higher level areas/battles boosts the levels of earlier gyms and titans so that challenging stuff out of order rewards you with more challenging fights and keeps the difficulty consistent
        congratulations, the game is now objectively more well-designed
        >inb4 "i-its still shit because I said so!"

        both maintain the clear sense of progression with level scaling while also not leaving the difficulty anywhere near as much an uneven mess, but clearly you lot don't actually care to think about actual solutions to design issues and would rather make disingenuous, petty arguments to try and inflate your own egos

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >under the assumption that there is only one possible method of implementing scaling
          You're either killing progression or you aren't. There isn't much in between.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            My point is proven

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Gym leader teams (species, number of mons, moves, hold items, etc.) vary based on badge total.
            >Team levels match the highest in your party to encourage the player to keep their team around the same level.
            Explain to me what's wrong with this approach.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >explain to me what's wrong with making levels pointless

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Scaling wouldn't make levelling pointless. Levelling is still important for evolving most mons and getting better moves.

                Already addressed it. Try again.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why would I need evolutions or better moves if everything in the game is on par with me already?

                Already addressed it. Try again.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Can't come up with a valid argument other than "It's bad"
                I accept your concession.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You do know that the base power of moves doesn't scale with your level, right? Even with scaling, at a certain point the AI will start using moves like Fire Blast or Thunder.

                They addressed that too.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >lv5 charmander uses fire blast
                >does fucking nothing because it's lv5
                holy shit bros I definitely have motivation to level up now

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >>lv5 charmander uses fire blast
                Nowhere in that approach would that happen. Either the AI is at level 5 and uses Ember, or the AI is at a much higher level (say 45) and it's no longer a Charmander using Ember, but rather a Charizard using Fire Blast. If you're going to argue, at least attempt to use your brain.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >low level
                >fight opponent on par with me
                >high level
                >fight opponent on par with me

                so you killed progression, congrats

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                God forbid they come up with good movesets and smart AI to counteract that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                no smart AI or moveset is going to change the fact I can outspeed and 1HKO with my pokemon since you scaled their levels to be shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Wow! It's almost like the Pokemon games have a chronic problem with AI trainers having simple teams that can be easily planned for!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >low level
                >fight opponent much stronger than me
                >high level
                >fight opponent much weaker than me

                And this is better how?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You're talking to a door pretty much.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The problem is that it requires more work from a small indie company like GF

              Fuck levels, levels do not create difficulty they create artificial difficulty. Why does botw work? Because it's skill based not level based.

              Pokemon should be reimagined so that battles work like in battle tower, 3v3 level 50 scaled, set not switch, and difficulty comes from strategy. Gyms shouldn't level scale, they should strategy scale and their Pokemon should just be better Pokemon.

              Funny how even a guaranteed formulaic seller like pokemon felt obligated to try and pull a BOTW as well

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Funny how even a guaranteed formulaic seller like pokemon felt obligated to try and pull a BOTW as well
                This was always going to be the endgoal for a Pokemon game, though. It was just a matter of time. its just a shame that it finally happened in the age of GF not giving a shit about quality, since they know the games will sell

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's a simple stagnant point moving forward.
        No it isn't, it's a constantly raising curve. The fact that you are complaining about a "stagnant path" while at the same time defending a system in which you can accidentally invalidate half the game's content - making it a monotonous, boring slog to go through when you eventually do it - is fucking hilarious.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >accidentally invalidate half the game's content
          By putting in scaling you're invalidating ALL the game's content.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No you aren't, retard. "Scaling" doesn't mean making it easier; we are EXPLICITLY talking about scaling to make the game harder. It's nobody's fault but your own that you're too dumb to grasp anything other than "scaling = making everything weaker than me".

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >No you aren't, retard
              Yes, you are. Without scaling I can get a few challenging gyms that significantly overlevel me. With scaling I get zero challenging gyms and it becomes exactly like every other shitty game in the series where you just mindlessly mash A with one Pokemon to beat the gym's shitmons and win.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >With scaling I get zero challenging gyms
                Once again, this is your own fantasy limitation that doesn't actually exist. Gyms can be scaled to be challenging, there's no reason whatsoever to believe otherwise. Retard.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >[schizo ramblings]
    Didn't ask, and you bought it anyway.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >have a "recommended" order everything
    >beating one of the higher level areas/battles boosts the levels of earlier gyms and titans so that challenging stuff out of order rewards you with more challenging fights and keeps the difficulty consistent
    congratulations, the game is now objectively more well-designed
    >inb4 "i-its still shit because I said so!"

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Fuck levels, levels do not create difficulty they create artificial difficulty. Why does botw work? Because it's skill based not level based.

    Pokemon should be reimagined so that battles work like in battle tower, 3v3 level 50 scaled, set not switch, and difficulty comes from strategy. Gyms shouldn't level scale, they should strategy scale and their Pokemon should just be better Pokemon.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      BOTW has scaling you retard

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He didn't say it has. Scaling in an action/skill-based game works very differently than in a turn-based RPG.
        But that said he's a retard for using "artificial difficulty" though and also BOTW is kinda shit.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He didn't say it doesn't*

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Are you a retard that thinks higher level makes things difficult? Hurr durr lemme grind and get my level higher oh so hard

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Did you know there was a Pokémon game that did have level scaling? In Pokémon Stadium and Pokémon Stadium 2, all opponents in the Gym Leader Castle have their Pokémon's levels scaled up to the highest leveled Pokémon in your party if it's above level 50.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is comprehending the games are made primarily with children in mind trhat hard to implement?
    That irrespective of actual audience metrics, the games are developed to ensure kids, literal paste-eating spastic kids that will grow up to be tomorrow's Ganker incel wasteoids, can reach the end credits.
    Want the games to get challenging again? Nuke the wider entertainment options afforded to them, to the point they can ONLY play pokémon before subtly training the wastrels to have game sense enough to not need to be led by the nose through the story. Can't do that, you're not going to get your toy back, as it's entirely down to the evolutionary explosion of entertainment options in the last 12 years that forced the brand's hand.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      making the 'b-b-but think of the kiddies' argument doesn't work here because the kids would actually prefer level scaling, given that it prevents them from getting shit-stomped by something three times their level
      or do you only care about "the kiddos" when you can use it to shut down arguments

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Prove it. Fuck, all you need to do is lurk moar, Ganker is free and open with admitting to getting Pokémon a little too early to comprehend how to play video games ("my first was crystal, but i didn't know what to do, so Sapphire was the first time I knew what to do" - actual quote form a thread in the last year). Because parents at this stage see "Pokémon and understand it's a nce, safe kiddy brand. No awkward questions or questionable content to worry about being spat out.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          what kind of schizo reply is this
          are you arguing with the demons in your head

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >kids would actually prefer level scaling
            The only kids who want that are the 20-something kids on Ganker. Actual kids won't give a fuck if there's scaling or not, but having actual progression works best for them (every trained monkey gets addiccted to the endorphins released from little victories).
            If you're going to be so flagrantly out-of-touch with reality, try speaking for solely your manchild self, as the opposite just doesn't work.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              oh look, another disingenuous retard going "nuh uh im smarter than you.. because i just am!"
              like

              I agree that it's weird that at this point, no one should expect these games to break out of their comfort zone and add difficulty to their kid games. But tbh, I find that this game will be much harder for kids to beat with the open world design being much less hand holdy, it's easy to stumble in an overleveled area and not know where the next ideal level area is. Right now, only fans who care enough to play the leaked game are playing it, but i wonder what the actual target demographic wll think of the open world

              said, if gamefreak cared more than anything making the games piss easy for kids like you insist they do they'd just do another sword and shield hallway simulator where they can have all of the piss easy level progression in the world and a wild area where they can slap "OPEN WORLD" onto the box.
              after all, that's exactly what you and your neet buddies have been insisting kids wanted for the past two gens

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm sorry you seem to be labouring under the delusion Game Freak would give a shit for you without the kids, but you forget the manchild normiefuck adults who went out and ignored #BBND noble goal, to buy 25m copies of Sword and Shield PLUS the DLC despite every retard cunt twattering, crying on plebbit, bitching on arsebook and despairing over discunt. Using the internet as evidence to any your claims is retardation, as the internet's segmented to fuck now, to the point they only let you see what they want you to see, if you don't seek to break the barriers. Get out the echo chamber, widen your experiences you'll get a better handle on the actual perception of things. But every dissenting opinion to yours gets dismissed, because then you can still claim to be right, even when thunderously, retardedly wrong, yeah?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                never in my life have I seen someone completely miss the point of a post as hard as you
                proud of you

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                unironically go outside, holy shit. Imagine typing all that autistic shit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I agree that it's weird that at this point, no one should expect these games to break out of their comfort zone and add difficulty to their kid games. But tbh, I find that this game will be much harder for kids to beat with the open world design being much less hand holdy, it's easy to stumble in an overleveled area and not know where the next ideal level area is. Right now, only fans who care enough to play the leaked game are playing it, but i wonder what the actual target demographic wll think of the open world

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You guys can stop replying to this thread now, the shitflingers have already definitively proven that they're not here to make genuine arguments

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >people don't agree with my shitty takes so that means they're not being genuine
      Why do unova fanboys always resort to this cope?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >bringing up gen 5 again with no context
        meds

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      bump

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Here's my proposal, Ganker
    >Gyms scale strictly based on badge count, NOT the party pokemon you have
    >An NPC or machine or what have you would check how many badges you have and then set the opponent pokemon appropriately for that challenge level (Ex: if you have 0 badges then it's level 10-15 pokemon for the gym leader, but if you have like 3 then its level 20-27 pokemon for the gym leader)
    >Special boss pokemon like the Paradox Pokemon and other legendaries, as well as certain special areas and NPCs will retain a static level, but the game would warn you how strong they are if you're underleveled before you accept getting your shit rocked because Rated E for Everyone including dumbass players
    >Greater rewards for completing a challenge that you weren't prepared for to encourage going off the rails
    >However, if the going is too tough the game could nudge you but not force you towards an easier path, could help people that get lost often in open world games
    >Wild pokemon DO NOT SCALE, you have to earn that earlygame dragon type the hard way
    Thoughts on this arrangement? I feel like there should be a balance of freedom to determine how difficult you want your journey to be and streamlining scale in a way where you don't just get lost and get rolfstomped in a killzone.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>Gyms scale strictly based on badge count, NOT the party pokemon you have
      congrats you already made it shit

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Could you elaborate on why it's shit?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I get zero challenging gyms.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's what the Paradox Pokemon and Boss Star members, as well as other special NPCS and high level pokemon are for; being overleveled monstahs.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've seen the white knights on this board claim level scaling is "beyond their technical capabilities" when it's been a game mechanic we've had since Gen 3

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    IMO all gym leaders and story encounters should be higher level than you, you already have the advantage of being able to freely choose your comp and the incompetence of the AI, you should have to think if you want to win.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Scaling would've made the game even easier than it already is. Let's face it, this is gamefreak we're talking about here. They would make every gym leader 5-10 levels lower than your highest Mon; yes you could artificially manipulate it with a sole higher level mon in your team for sure, but you can just do that anyway by using new pokes with the current system, so the that point is completely moot.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can someone spoon feed me on the order that won’t be immersion breaking then

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I just beat the second gym without many problems, and then I asked Nurse Joy in that town where to go next. She told me to go fight the salaryman gym leader. Seemed about right, since it was the logical next way to go. I go there and everyone is like seven levels above me, while I'm pretty much on the brink of being overleveled (one of my pokemon doesnt even listen to me anymore). What the hell? How would you possibly know where to go instead of going in, letting a guy one-shot every pokemon you have and trying a different town?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ideally(if playing by level), the first gym isn't bug one, the second gym is the grass gym...and in this game, the titans and star battles count as additional "boss battles" that help you gain levels. The recommendations for me were awful because it told me to battle the psychic gym next which is a lv50 gym and my party was only in the late 20s.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >lvl scaling is bad because it makes lvling mons pointless
    i genuinely cannot understand this argument. explain it like i'm retarded.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The laziest way to do it is to simply match levels but they can easily put factors to decide what kind party the gyms have for example having more slots, using items/held items, EVs/IVs, better AI tactics etc but that is too much to be asked for because it's just a kiddie game

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >have lv5 pokemon
      >opponents are all lv5 so I can easily beat them

      >have lv50 pokemon
      >opponents are all lv50 so I can easily beat them

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Hurrr I'm retarded

        >Have lvl 5 pokemon
        >Gyms are scaled to have lvl 8-10 pokemon so they are challenging
        >Have lvl 50 pokemon
        >Gyms are scaled to have lvl 55-60 so they are challenging
        Wowee that was such a difficult problem to solve, you aren't being disingenuous at all

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>Gyms are scaled to have lvl 8-10 pokemon
          >>Gyms are scaled to have lvl 55-60 so they are challenging
          neither of these would be challenging

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the games aren't challenging now

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i assume it would be tied to number of badges, not based on just the lvls of your team

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Guys what is the level 35ish gym? I'm panicking because I'm at my level limit but can't find the next gym. Getting tired of running around a wasteland, unable to battle anything, or else my pokemon won't obey me anymore.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Oh, I just found that guy because I thought it was my next gym and I was way too weak. It's the dude west-ish of the main town who looks like he's facing away from the camera.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Thank you Satan!

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So its like running into Territorial Rotbart in Xenoblade?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's very much like Xenoblade right down to the "fuck around and find out, you might just win" mentality.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And this is being considered a bad thing?
        Man, Rotbart was great. Always looking around trying to spot the fucker so I wouldnt get aperaped.
        Hell, one of the best experiences I had in a game was in AC Black Flag, when I stumbled onto the ghost ship early on, eventually beating it despite being hilariously underlevelled.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, having elite/alpha monsters is such an easy concept to put in open world rpgs. Just put some strong monsters in some areas and trust the player not to fuck with it until they're ready. Tbh SV does try this...to an extent with some tera pokemon, for example there was a lv70 lucario in a generally lv40 area and 1 or 2 titans can be too strong for you like the donphan one if you're only in the 20s

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm so glad Platinum has scaled levels and doesn't let me fight the water or steel gym early bros. Truly it kept the game challenging.

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is this the antiscaling fag from a few months back that seethed his nuts off about gym leaders having an unfair disadvantage in Pokemon Origins due to optimizing their team closer to a challenger's skill level? It feels like the same talking points.
    https://arch.b4k.co/vp/thread/50837744

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Having wild encounters continually scaling to how strong the player character is wouldn't make any sense. Having no explanation as to why the game world seems to revolve around you would be weird. I know it is a game and the world and story is meant to revolve around you, but still.

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All of this seething about level scale making everything too easy and making you overleveled is proof that not only that pokemon is for casuals, but Ganker are casuals as well that think the biggest challenge possible is picking the big shiny "super effective" button.

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I genuinely do not understand the idea that level scaling inherently ruins all sense of progression. If the opponent is always at your level, sure I can understand that as you can never get a leg up on the game. But there's a good way and a bad way to handle it and there's more shades of gray to the issue.

    Pokemon Go for example has horrible power scaling, where I've been playing that shitshow of a game for years and it never feels like I actively make progress because AI trainers scale based on what you pick and will always have massively inflated combat power to make up for not being a player. Combined with Go's lack of real options in a fight it really feels like there's no real point to getting stronger.

    On the other hand, the mainline games have way more options and thus ways to show alternative types of progression because you can collect badges and hit certain story beats. Instead of a hard level scaling you can do softer level scaling for certain hurdles in the game as has been laid out in the thread before. You still feel a sense of progression because your Pokemon are evolving, you're unlocking a larger roster of moves to pick from, and items to equip and thus expand your number of available strategies. Sideways progression is also a type of progression, and that's not bad either. Pretending only "my number is bigger than yours" counts as progression is retarded and dishonest. This also ignores that there's more to Pokemon than just battles: filling up your Pokedex could very easily be argued to be a type of progression which is separate from the progression of the battle system and will never be overshadowed by the game introducing some type of progress based level scaling.

    However this is also Pokemon and I wouldn't trust Game Freak to actually implement this properly.

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >gays unironically complaining about level scaling again
    the obvious fucking solution to satisfy dumbasses against it is to level-scale for weaker opponents only
    to elaborate, make it where each gym still has a set order but give the weaker gym leaders teams for any badges ahead of theirs (i.e. gym 1 has eight teams, gym 2 has seven teams, gym 3 has six, so on)
    then, when you defeat a higher level gym (say gym 4) only the weaker teams (gyms 1,2,3) will rise to the corresponding next team
    this still allows people to fight the hardest gym leader first at its intended difficulty if they so desire while not completely making the previous ones a cakewalk
    this isn't a perfect solution obviously (if you go from 4 back to 3 you might be over-leveled for 5) but it's an attempt (which game freak didn't do)

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This could work

      All of you guys forget this is a kid's game, if they just took level scaling but added 10 levels to each gym all the kids (and game journalists) would have trouble.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >this could work
        yeah, it's literally keeps what the spergs are asking for: doesnt make progress """meaningless""", doesnt make it too challenging for the children, and still satisfies other people who dont want to steamroll seven gyms
        you want to challenge the eight gym leader first? he still has an eight gym leader team and now the others aren't complete cakewalks as a response if you win
        level scaling doesn't have to be for every single opponent and trainer yet somehow people are so low IQ they just dismiss the concept altogether

        >what's the point of VGC and competitive pokemon? Every pokemon is the same level as mine so it's easy

        a more apt comparison would be the battle tower but yeah
        and even then why assume level scaling would put your opponents at the same level and not above? literally retarded

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >battle tower
          I know you're agreeing with me but the battle tower isn't *that* easy despite being the same level, if these "same level is too easy" spergs really had a point they'd have long streaks on battle facilities despite shit teams with no IVs or EVs, yet they don't.

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Little Jimmy is going to start the game, go off in a random direction, and get curb stomped by something 20 levels higher than them as is anyway due to how schizo world's level progression is

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Stop asking for a linear route tards

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *