I dont really get how you are supposed to progress through the game, i thought it was gonna be related to proximity, checking wild pokemon levels and obstacles that needed to be climbed or surfed through, however, this is barely ever the case. I just beat whatever i find using strategy, even if i'm not supposed to beat it yet, and then the lower level battles i just end up doing them too late and suck. The challenge from being underleveled is fun, but it makes the overall experience inconsistent, i'd prefer being slightly underleveled in all matches if possible.
>Encounter Great Tusk
>Team is below lv 30, havent battled a single route trainer
>Unable to see its level
>Destroys my team
>Realize that it cant OHKO clodsire
>Use yawn next try
>Spam Lunge with Lokix to lower attack
>Kilowatrel (or almost any other flying type) solos
>2nd phase
>realize that i'm not supposed to battle this thing when partner was lv 45
>Beat it anyways
>Somehow the gym and the team boss literally next to it are lv 30 and 20 respectively
>Same thing for Tatsugiri who is just above these, partner was level 55
>Manage to defeat it using arboliva for first phase, 2nd phase i manage to hit a salt cure and win
Scaling is not so hard to implement, the game is tracking in what order you are defeating everything anyways.
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Why would they implement something that makes the game worse? What's the point of having levels if EVERYTHING IN THE GAME has the same level as you?
So you don't have to slog throuh a piss easy minigame and then fight a level 13 gym with level 50 pokemon because you went the 'wrong way'. Gyms should always be a challenge, and you can still block off areas with higher level pokemon since it makes sense not to scale those.
>So you don't have to slog throuh a piss easy minigame and then fight a level 13 gym with level 50 pokemon
I took the time to get my Pokemon to lv50. Why should that be nullified and make levels entirely pointless?
>Gyms should always be a challenge
Ah yes because all know the gyms in previous games like gen 5 that were scaled due to the forced railroading were challenging and definitely not trivially easy.
>but the grass gym wont be level 15
Why should I bother leveling up if the gyms are just going to stay equally as strong as me?
You don't know what strawman means
>Why should I bother leveling up if the gyms are just going to stay equally as strong as me?
give it a max level too then. it's moronic that you are supposed to go to places on opposite sides of the map that have suggested levels 1 or 2 away from each other. nobody playing without a guide will do them in order so half the time it will be a stomp
>give it a max level too then
It does. The max level is 15.
> it's moronic that you are supposed to go to places on opposite sides of the map
You're not "supposed to" do anything. It's an open world game. You can do whatever you want. That's the point. Whether or not you can actually accomplish those things depends on your skill level, which is the entire point of scaling not existing. If the game had scaling it would be moronic boring garbage where you can just mindlessly mash A in any direction without having to think or engage with anything.
stfu moron, your opinions are trash
>The only possible way that scaling can be implemented s to make everything easy
you are generally braindead lmao, tell the doctor to pull the plug
This. It's even been established in canon that gym leaders are supposed to pick their teams based on the strength of the challenger. Lorewise level scaling is an essential part of the league storyline
>It's even been established in canon that gym leaders are supposed to pick their teams based on the strength of the challenger
Lt. Surge has the exact same team regardless of whether you fight him 3rd or 7th in every single game he shows up in as a Gym Leader.
In the lore, moron. We've already established that Gamefreak is collectively too smooth-brained to handle this concept.
When was this established? It’s always been my head canon
In Pokemon Origins. Brock asks how many badges Red has, so he can pick his team based on that.
minimum levels moron. the level 50 will always be at least level 50 but the grass gym wont be level 15 if you do the left side first
Are you actually moronic? That's how Pokemon games have ALWAYS worked, the Gyms have always been tuned to be slightly stronger than you and route trainers tuned to be slightly weaker / the same. This doesn't suddenly become terrible, impossible, unimplementable just because the game is open world. Consistently rising challenge is good.
Wild Pokemon levels should be set (so there are "hard" areas and "easy" areas and they don't change from the beginning); this creates the sense of progression you're looking for where you can travel back to old areas and they're easier to get around than when you first travelled through. Trainers should have a minimum level that corresponds with the difficulty of the area, but then scale up from there as you surpass them. This means that you can truly do the game in any order without completely undermining any content you were "meant" to do earlier, which itself undermines the entire fricking point of open world if there's an intended order.
shut up, you're not supposed to offer good ideas
you're just supposed to say that the way gamefreak does things is perfect and that anyone that disagrees is a moron
Strawman
Not necessarily scaling to your level, just changing the levels according to the order of your progress, if you have defeated x important bosses, whatever you face should have a certain level. Or at least use proximity and obstacles correctly if you dont want to do that.
Scale by gym/boss count, dumbass. So if the game has 18 bosses which I think it does between the team admins, gyms and titans, then you have 18 FIXED sets for each boss. Why do morons like you think 1:1 level scaling whenever anyone mentions scaling? Are you that close minded?
>they don't need to scale by killing any sense of progress moron, they just need to scale by killing any sense of progress
incredible solution! bravo!
>bosses go from using three fodder pokemon to full teams of six higher leveled mons to reflect that your threat as a trainer is rising
>killing any sense of progress
Admit you just want to steamroll through the game
>Admit you just want to steamroll through the game
If I wanted this I would be another reddit npc begging for scaling.
So you want the progress to be lost and the entire game to be piss easy since nothing is ever a substantially higher level than you, got it.
The only thing fighting a much higher leveled than you opponent early in the game does is make you overleveled for whatever you "skipped". If you think this is enjoyable then you just have complete shit taste in video games.
I've noticed that the anons that defend this shit design and call it "challenging" completely ignore the fact that going out of order and doing the harder gyms first just makes you vastly overleveled for the majority of the game. "Oh you beat the lv30 gym leader first? Having fun button mashing through the previous gyms" or "Oh you level grinded enough to beat the final Lv50 gym first? Having fun curb stomping now that every trainer is now just a Joey"
But in gen 5 you're button mashing gyms regardless and /vp/ loves gen 5, I don't see the issue.
No one cares about your unhealthy gen 5 obsession, we're talking about gen 9
>no one mentions gen 5
>schizo alone bring it up every time he has to retort because he doesn't have the frontal lobe development to come up with a coherent argument instead
Love to see it, keep it up.
>game has no level scaling
>overleveled for only some of the gyms
>game has level scaling
>overleveled for every gym
wow great solution
What I suggest would literally, and I mean in every way of the word, be functionally identical to how every Pokemon game has ever done it. Gym 1 has a fixed team, so Gym 2 has a fixed team with higher levels, Gym 3 has a fixed team with higher levels, and so on.
It'd work THE SAME EXACT WAY except with interchangeable order. Dumb motherfricker.
>What's the point of having levels if EVERYTHING IN THE GAME has the same level as you?
Anon have you ever played a Pokemon game before? Every game is already paced this way for the most part
>every game is boring garbage where you mindlessly mash A to progress
why would I want this AGAIN?
>What's the point of having levels if EVERYTHING IN THE GAME has the same level as you?
Challenge.
>what's the point of VGC and competitive pokemon? Every pokemon is the same level as mine so it's easy
VGC isn't structured like an RPG where I have to make progress through an adventure, moron.
Scaling could be neat
I went from a lvl 20 area to 50 accidentally they were like right next to eachother lol
Kinda assumed going in a circle would be the gym order but they appear to have you swapping east and west for progression which is odd
Kinda like it with this odd stuff tho
Maybe scale things up to your level but don't scale them down
i think if there isn't going to be scaling, then at least somehow signal the level brackets of the areas, like maybe the map will show the level once you've entered the zone?
Wild Pokémon kind of do that, but yes I would have liked the WoW approach with level brackets for each zone. They should have been more bold, increase the difference in levels between gym leaders, and it would have worked fine.
That was part of the odd fun tbh randomly encountering a mon that just beat the shit out of me was pretty funny
Just scaling up so you can't get too over leveled would be my choice
Early game is fine.
Mid game sucks and you're way too overlevelled.
Late game is fine again.
The game is fine if you keep switching out your pokemon to be at or below a certain level.
>Early game is fine.
disagree. by the time i make to the bug gym my team was already 10+ levels above it. by the third gym i stopped playing because the game was a snorefest. gonna wait for xp reducing mods.
Honestly never understood this argument. In what world does grinding constitute challenge?
>10+ level above first gym
That must've had you at least around mid to late lv20. Were you grinding and exploring a lot? Because I took my time going to the first gym while battling every trainer and most wild mons on the path and I was only a 1 or 2 over.
Because Pokemon grow at different rates and get much different moves and stat lines each.
This could be easily solved by having gyms and story fights always scale to the highest level Pokemon in your team (with some of their team being slightly lower and their ace being a couple levels higher), but Pokemon in the wild remain static.
I thought you meant the ever present complain about scaling models which they STILL cant fricking figure out.
No, frick level scaling and open world and frick the morons that ever came up with it and any game it has plagued. If you want a shitty open world, you have to at least accept that the world doesn't revolve around you. It also invalidates any concept of actually levelling and growing stronger if everything is the same level difference from you forever.
Not having scaling in some form is a huge mistake. Like sure you can explore anywhere, but specifically leveled zones only create the illusion of choice when you can optimally just go in a set path that's accurately tuned.
Hell just raise the top level of every trainer by idk, 5 and the level range for wild pokemon by 3 or so.
Have some optional fights in each zone like SWSH do that have their own set levels as major challenges you can do
Make it so you can explore in any way you want, choose your order and better tailor the game to your journey.
The chance was right fricking here
Talking about the illusion of choice.
If you're playing blind then your exploration will get screwed because of the legendary upgrades (specific to a titan) and that you can't catch an obedient pokemon above your badge level bracket.
I think the Team Stars stuff is the only content you can do whenever.
>illusion of choice
This pretty much sums it up. It's "open world" on that you can technically go in any order you want but if you do, the game feels like an unbalanced mess where you're too over leveled for half and too over leveled for the other half, and playing while underleveled feels more tedious than challenging.
Previous games said that all gym leaders in canon scale their party in canon to match the trainer challenging them but here that is definitely not the case. It's easy enough to balance/scale the wild areas by both strong and weak mons in the same area, just do what PLA did and give the stronger mons some kind of indicator that they are too strong and should be avoided until you've leveled up enough
When has scaling ever not ruined a game
I can't wait for /vp/ in 2 years having realization threads about how open world is a shit concept, especially for rpgs.
Don't conflate level scaling being a shit concept for open world being a shit concept, BW2gay.
Rent free
don't hold your breath.
>you stumble into an area where you are underleveled
>you either grind through wild pokemon with auto battle or cheese through the braindead AI by exploiting status effects/buff/item spamming
congrats, now you're over leveled for the rest of the game. Such challenge, such wow. This is what happened with me having a lv30 party and backtracking to the areas where everything is lv5.
I'm curious how general audience(mostly kids) will react to this game with it being less linear and giving no fricks of you accidentally challenge a trainer/titan while being too underleveled. And the "help I'm lost" tips are worthless because it's completely moronic and gives you the worst recommendations like telling you to challenge the gym that's 20 levels above you
I'm glad this game has level scaling and doesn't allow me to fight the gyms out of order. It definitely makes the game a nice balanced experience and definitely doesn't make the entire game piss easy 🙂
I intentionally played while making sure to keep my level low and battling the gyms and star members that had the higher level than and I can say that even if they were scaled, they wouldnt be a challenge because it's the same 3-4 slots filled with shit mons that anyone could sweep through with a basic set up. They should definitely give the AIs more status reset/punishing moves or nerf the mechanic in general because it only takes a single swordance/nasty plot with decent speed and you instantly win.
Actually obsessed and obviously irritated enough. wow 🙂
Katy>Brassius>Iono>Kofu>Larry>Ryme>Tulip>Grusha
The problem is that pokemon uses static encounter tables for other trainers.
Their teams have not only predefined levels and moves, their IVs, EVs, abilities and items are chosen by the developers based on the point in the game in which the player encounters the trainer.
It is possible to set different teams based on the progress of the player but that is too hard, consumes too much space and could mess up with the battle AI.
That is why is usually limited to two sets, pre- and post- champion.
>People actually expect GF to put minuscule effort into making challenge and scaling
They're so confident in what they can get away with that they just made a regular story mode but without the roadblocks and called it an open world game. Itll be fun hearing about all the players who avoid all the trainer battles and wild pokemon and get surprised by the first mandatory battle that stomps them because they are 30+ levels under
Are areas numbered on the map like this in-game? That looks like a pretty good guide for the best/intended order to go through the game so you don't get your levels too screwed up
>Are areas numbered on the map like this in-game?
no, for once the game doesn't treat the player like a moron and it expects you to figure out if an area is too high level for you or not.
This caught me of guard because I was skipping past wild mons that were only level 15 and best. I cross a small bridge and bump into something and now they're all level 50 and you cant run away til they knock out at least one mon(or if you challenge a trainer without knowing any better, you get your whole team killed). It's funny how they went from holding your hand way too much to just pushing you out into moving traffic. They easily couldve at least put up signs that said "hey, the shit here is fricked, recommend having at least this many badges before entering"
Literally hold ZL to check wild mons levels in the overworld before battling any. Can't believe you frickers actually needed the handholding, after all.
On the one hand, it's cool that the game lets you explore, but on the other, that sounds like an easy way to end up stumbling into story stuff too early. Like the Gyms and Star Bases are probably easily dodged because they're actual buildings you can see before you enter them and can steer clear of if you don't want to take them on yet, but the Titans are just hanging out in the open, and they probably have an intended story path you're supposed to follow that'll get thrown off when you accidentally find one and trigger the encounter. Would be nice to at least know the order for them to avoid screwing up the story.
I'm an adult with average problem solving skills and at 2 points, I got tired of looking for which areas i wasnt too underleveled for so I had to look at this a couple times for guidance. Will kids manage and normies manage? You can brute force level grind the or spend the time to level check every area until you get lucky enough with a level that you can handle.
>ANY FORM OF SCALING IS BAD BECAUSE... IT JUST IS, OKAY?!?!
You have been told from a bunch of different posts about how scaling is nonsensical in an rpg with a levelling system. Might as well remove levels altogether, they actually serve no purpose at that point. You are complaining that you overlevelled an area that was designed to be done much earlier because you went to a high level area instead, yet that is what an open world is. It's not a sandbox for you to play with your shit all day. If you scale the goals every time then there is no progression path in the game. It's a simple stagnant point moving forward.
Scaling wouldn't make levelling pointless. Levelling is still important for evolving most mons and getting better moves.
Why would I need evolutions or better moves if everything in the game is on par with me already?
You do know that the base power of moves doesn't scale with your level, right? Even with scaling, at a certain point the AI will start using moves like Fire Blast or Thunder.
Because it wouldn't be? You beat Gym 1, whichever one that is, and now whichever Gym you challenge next is a higher level that you need to work to reach. Look, I'm on the side of a more linear story, but this isn't that hard to comprehend. No one in favour of level scaling is talking about 1:1 matching.
>that you need to work to reach
But I don't because by the time I reach that gym my levels will match. All you did was make the game homogenous garbage.
So let me get this straight, I think I've locked down your point of view.
You're saying that level scaling is bad because it would make the entire game too easy (A Pokemon game, mind you). So instead, what you want is something just like SV, where there are a few high level gyms you can challenge whenever you want, have a tough time beating, and then the game becomes piss-easy because you already beat the hardest parts. You can't imagine any possible way that the games could be scaled better to make the entire campaign challenging, so you want a few hours of difficulty and then to put the game down 30% through and never pick it up again. And you think that's good game design.
That sum it up? Because man, that is just...wow. I mean the answer, a few answers, actually, are staring you in the face, and you are determined not to see them
>You're saying that level scaling is bad because it would make the entire game too easy
correct
>and then the game becomes piss-easy because you already beat the hardest parts
some difficult gyms > 0 difficult gyms
>You can't imagine any possible way that the games could be scaled better to make the entire campaign challenging,
in an open world game? without making progression pointless? no.
>so you want a few hours of difficulty
as opposed to zero hours of difficulty, yes.
outsider anon here, just been following the conversation. What about a third option, where with levels comes tactics?
For a base assumption, take a completely open world game, challenge most of the gyms in any order, outside of maybe the first and last, for consistency. Each gym you beat ups the difficulty of the next, from adding more Pokemon to the teams, higher levels, to them actually using gimmicks like hazards, status effects, and the like.
Outside routes should still be locally scaled, though more Badges could possibly either increase the range of Pokemon that appear, or give chances of stronger Pokemon appearing as a challenge for the area.
There's a middleground where you can scale gyms/encounters to the player, without making it just a numbers game. Maybe the Fire Gym is just a statcheck in the first 3 fights, but after wards starts using Sun strategies? Poison Gym that uses Stall tactics if you come at them last?
And, most importantly, you can make this scaling into an optional setting, so the kids can have an easier time.
Why are you moronic. Were you dropped on your head as a child?
No, the "all level scaling is bad!!!" arguments are moronic because it exists under the assumption that there is only one possible method of implementing scaling and that it involves completely destroying any sense of progression.
Ideas like
both maintain the clear sense of progression with level scaling while also not leaving the difficulty anywhere near as much an uneven mess, but clearly you lot don't actually care to think about actual solutions to design issues and would rather make disingenuous, petty arguments to try and inflate your own egos
>under the assumption that there is only one possible method of implementing scaling
You're either killing progression or you aren't. There isn't much in between.
My point is proven
>Gym leader teams (species, number of mons, moves, hold items, etc.) vary based on badge total.
>Team levels match the highest in your party to encourage the player to keep their team around the same level.
Explain to me what's wrong with this approach.
>explain to me what's wrong with making levels pointless
Already addressed it. Try again.
Already addressed it. Try again.
>Can't come up with a valid argument other than "It's bad"
I accept your concession.
They addressed that too.
>lv5 charmander uses fire blast
>does fricking nothing because it's lv5
holy shit bros I definitely have motivation to level up now
>>lv5 charmander uses fire blast
Nowhere in that approach would that happen. Either the AI is at level 5 and uses Ember, or the AI is at a much higher level (say 45) and it's no longer a Charmander using Ember, but rather a Charizard using Fire Blast. If you're going to argue, at least attempt to use your brain.
>low level
>fight opponent on par with me
>high level
>fight opponent on par with me
so you killed progression, congrats
God forbid they come up with good movesets and smart AI to counteract that.
no smart AI or moveset is going to change the fact I can outspeed and 1HKO with my pokemon since you scaled their levels to be shit.
Wow! It's almost like the Pokemon games have a chronic problem with AI trainers having simple teams that can be easily planned for!
>low level
>fight opponent much stronger than me
>high level
>fight opponent much weaker than me
And this is better how?
You're talking to a door pretty much.
The problem is that it requires more work from a small indie company like GF
Funny how even a guaranteed formulaic seller like pokemon felt obligated to try and pull a BOTW as well
>Funny how even a guaranteed formulaic seller like pokemon felt obligated to try and pull a BOTW as well
This was always going to be the endgoal for a Pokemon game, though. It was just a matter of time. its just a shame that it finally happened in the age of GF not giving a shit about quality, since they know the games will sell
>It's a simple stagnant point moving forward.
No it isn't, it's a constantly raising curve. The fact that you are complaining about a "stagnant path" while at the same time defending a system in which you can accidentally invalidate half the game's content - making it a monotonous, boring slog to go through when you eventually do it - is fricking hilarious.
>accidentally invalidate half the game's content
By putting in scaling you're invalidating ALL the game's content.
No you aren't, moron. "Scaling" doesn't mean making it easier; we are EXPLICITLY talking about scaling to make the game harder. It's nobody's fault but your own that you're too dumb to grasp anything other than "scaling = making everything weaker than me".
>No you aren't, moron
Yes, you are. Without scaling I can get a few challenging gyms that significantly overlevel me. With scaling I get zero challenging gyms and it becomes exactly like every other shitty game in the series where you just mindlessly mash A with one Pokemon to beat the gym's shitmons and win.
>With scaling I get zero challenging gyms
Once again, this is your own fantasy limitation that doesn't actually exist. Gyms can be scaled to be challenging, there's no reason whatsoever to believe otherwise. moron.
>[schizo ramblings]
Didn't ask, and you bought it anyway.
>have a "recommended" order everything
>beating one of the higher level areas/battles boosts the levels of earlier gyms and titans so that challenging stuff out of order rewards you with more challenging fights and keeps the difficulty consistent
congratulations, the game is now objectively more well-designed
>inb4 "i-its still shit because I said so!"
Frick levels, levels do not create difficulty they create artificial difficulty. Why does botw work? Because it's skill based not level based.
Pokemon should be reimagined so that battles work like in battle tower, 3v3 level 50 scaled, set not switch, and difficulty comes from strategy. Gyms shouldn't level scale, they should strategy scale and their Pokemon should just be better Pokemon.
BOTW has scaling you moron
He didn't say it has. Scaling in an action/skill-based game works very differently than in a turn-based RPG.
But that said he's a moron for using "artificial difficulty" though and also BOTW is kinda shit.
He didn't say it doesn't*
Are you a moron that thinks higher level makes things difficult? Hurr durr lemme grind and get my level higher oh so hard
Did you know there was a Pokémon game that did have level scaling? In Pokémon Stadium and Pokémon Stadium 2, all opponents in the Gym Leader Castle have their Pokémon's levels scaled up to the highest leveled Pokémon in your party if it's above level 50.
Is comprehending the games are made primarily with children in mind trhat hard to implement?
That irrespective of actual audience metrics, the games are developed to ensure kids, literal paste-eating spastic kids that will grow up to be tomorrow's /vp/ incel wasteoids, can reach the end credits.
Want the games to get challenging again? Nuke the wider entertainment options afforded to them, to the point they can ONLY play pokémon before subtly training the wastrels to have game sense enough to not need to be led by the nose through the story. Can't do that, you're not going to get your toy back, as it's entirely down to the evolutionary explosion of entertainment options in the last 12 years that forced the brand's hand.
making the 'b-b-but think of the kiddies' argument doesn't work here because the kids would actually prefer level scaling, given that it prevents them from getting shit-stomped by something three times their level
or do you only care about "the kiddos" when you can use it to shut down arguments
Prove it. Frick, all you need to do is lurk moar, /vp/ is free and open with admitting to getting Pokémon a little too early to comprehend how to play video games ("my first was crystal, but i didn't know what to do, so Sapphire was the first time I knew what to do" - actual quote form a thread in the last year). Because parents at this stage see "Pokémon and understand it's a nce, safe kiddy brand. No awkward questions or questionable content to worry about being spat out.
what kind of schizo reply is this
are you arguing with the demons in your head
>kids would actually prefer level scaling
The only kids who want that are the 20-something kids on /vp/. Actual kids won't give a frick if there's scaling or not, but having actual progression works best for them (every trained monkey gets addiccted to the endorphins released from little victories).
If you're going to be so flagrantly out-of-touch with reality, try speaking for solely your manchild self, as the opposite just doesn't work.
oh look, another disingenuous moron going "nuh uh im smarter than you.. because i just am!"
like
said, if gamefreak cared more than anything making the games piss easy for kids like you insist they do they'd just do another sword and shield hallway simulator where they can have all of the piss easy level progression in the world and a wild area where they can slap "OPEN WORLD" onto the box.
after all, that's exactly what you and your neet buddies have been insisting kids wanted for the past two gens
I'm sorry you seem to be labouring under the delusion Game Freak would give a shit for you without the kids, but you forget the manchild normiefrick adults who went out and ignored #BBND noble goal, to buy 25m copies of Sword and Shield PLUS the DLC despite every moron c**t twattering, crying on plebbit, b***hing on arsebook and despairing over disc**t. Using the internet as evidence to any your claims is moronation, as the internet's segmented to frick now, to the point they only let you see what they want you to see, if you don't seek to break the barriers. Get out the echo chamber, widen your experiences you'll get a better handle on the actual perception of things. But every dissenting opinion to yours gets dismissed, because then you can still claim to be right, even when thunderously, moronicly wrong, yeah?
never in my life have I seen someone completely miss the point of a post as hard as you
proud of you
unironically go outside, holy shit. Imagine typing all that autistic shit
I agree that it's weird that at this point, no one should expect these games to break out of their comfort zone and add difficulty to their kid games. But tbh, I find that this game will be much harder for kids to beat with the open world design being much less hand holdy, it's easy to stumble in an overleveled area and not know where the next ideal level area is. Right now, only fans who care enough to play the leaked game are playing it, but i wonder what the actual target demographic wll think of the open world
You guys can stop replying to this thread now, the shitflingers have already definitively proven that they're not here to make genuine arguments
>people don't agree with my shitty takes so that means they're not being genuine
Why do unova fanboys always resort to this cope?
>bringing up gen 5 again with no context
meds
bump
Here's my proposal, /vp/
>Gyms scale strictly based on badge count, NOT the party pokemon you have
>An NPC or machine or what have you would check how many badges you have and then set the opponent pokemon appropriately for that challenge level (Ex: if you have 0 badges then it's level 10-15 pokemon for the gym leader, but if you have like 3 then its level 20-27 pokemon for the gym leader)
>Special boss pokemon like the Paradox Pokemon and other legendaries, as well as certain special areas and NPCs will retain a static level, but the game would warn you how strong they are if you're underleveled before you accept getting your shit rocked because Rated E for Everyone including dumbass players
>Greater rewards for completing a challenge that you weren't prepared for to encourage going off the rails
>However, if the going is too tough the game could nudge you but not force you towards an easier path, could help people that get lost often in open world games
>Wild pokemon DO NOT SCALE, you have to earn that earlygame dragon type the hard way
Thoughts on this arrangement? I feel like there should be a balance of freedom to determine how difficult you want your journey to be and streamlining scale in a way where you don't just get lost and get rolfstomped in a killzone.
>>Gyms scale strictly based on badge count, NOT the party pokemon you have
congrats you already made it shit
Could you elaborate on why it's shit?
I get zero challenging gyms.
That's what the Paradox Pokemon and Boss Star members, as well as other special NPCS and high level pokemon are for; being overleveled monstahs.
I've seen the white knights on this board claim level scaling is "beyond their technical capabilities" when it's been a game mechanic we've had since Gen 3
IMO all gym leaders and story encounters should be higher level than you, you already have the advantage of being able to freely choose your comp and the incompetence of the AI, you should have to think if you want to win.
Scaling would've made the game even easier than it already is. Let's face it, this is gamefreak we're talking about here. They would make every gym leader 5-10 levels lower than your highest Mon; yes you could artificially manipulate it with a sole higher level mon in your team for sure, but you can just do that anyway by using new pokes with the current system, so the that point is completely moot.
Can someone spoon feed me on the order that won’t be immersion breaking then
I just beat the second gym without many problems, and then I asked Nurse Joy in that town where to go next. She told me to go fight the salaryman gym leader. Seemed about right, since it was the logical next way to go. I go there and everyone is like seven levels above me, while I'm pretty much on the brink of being overleveled (one of my pokemon doesnt even listen to me anymore). What the hell? How would you possibly know where to go instead of going in, letting a guy one-shot every pokemon you have and trying a different town?
Ideally(if playing by level), the first gym isn't bug one, the second gym is the grass gym...and in this game, the titans and star battles count as additional "boss battles" that help you gain levels. The recommendations for me were awful because it told me to battle the psychic gym next which is a lv50 gym and my party was only in the late 20s.
>lvl scaling is bad because it makes lvling mons pointless
i genuinely cannot understand this argument. explain it like i'm moronic.
The laziest way to do it is to simply match levels but they can easily put factors to decide what kind party the gyms have for example having more slots, using items/held items, EVs/IVs, better AI tactics etc but that is too much to be asked for because it's just a kiddie game
>have lv5 pokemon
>opponents are all lv5 so I can easily beat them
>have lv50 pokemon
>opponents are all lv50 so I can easily beat them
>Hurrr I'm moronic
>Have lvl 5 pokemon
>Gyms are scaled to have lvl 8-10 pokemon so they are challenging
>Have lvl 50 pokemon
>Gyms are scaled to have lvl 55-60 so they are challenging
Wowee that was such a difficult problem to solve, you aren't being disingenuous at all
>>Gyms are scaled to have lvl 8-10 pokemon
>>Gyms are scaled to have lvl 55-60 so they are challenging
neither of these would be challenging
the games aren't challenging now
i assume it would be tied to number of badges, not based on just the lvls of your team
Guys what is the level 35ish gym? I'm panicking because I'm at my level limit but can't find the next gym. Getting tired of running around a wasteland, unable to battle anything, or else my pokemon won't obey me anymore.
Oh, I just found that guy because I thought it was my next gym and I was way too weak. It's the dude west-ish of the main town who looks like he's facing away from the camera.
Thank you Satan!
So its like running into Territorial Rotbart in Xenoblade?
It's very much like Xenoblade right down to the "frick around and find out, you might just win" mentality.
And this is being considered a bad thing?
Man, Rotbart was great. Always looking around trying to spot the fricker so I wouldnt get aperaped.
Hell, one of the best experiences I had in a game was in AC Black Flag, when I stumbled onto the ghost ship early on, eventually beating it despite being hilariously underlevelled.
Yeah, having elite/alpha monsters is such an easy concept to put in open world rpgs. Just put some strong monsters in some areas and trust the player not to frick with it until they're ready. Tbh SV does try this...to an extent with some tera pokemon, for example there was a lv70 lucario in a generally lv40 area and 1 or 2 titans can be too strong for you like the donphan one if you're only in the 20s
I'm so glad Platinum has scaled levels and doesn't let me fight the water or steel gym early bros. Truly it kept the game challenging.
Is this the antiscaling gay from a few months back that seethed his nuts off about gym leaders having an unfair disadvantage in Pokemon Origins due to optimizing their team closer to a challenger's skill level? It feels like the same talking points.
https://arch.b4k.co/vp/thread/50837744
Having wild encounters continually scaling to how strong the player character is wouldn't make any sense. Having no explanation as to why the game world seems to revolve around you would be weird. I know it is a game and the world and story is meant to revolve around you, but still.
All of this seething about level scale making everything too easy and making you overleveled is proof that not only that pokemon is for casuals, but /vp/ are casuals as well that think the biggest challenge possible is picking the big shiny "super effective" button.
I genuinely do not understand the idea that level scaling inherently ruins all sense of progression. If the opponent is always at your level, sure I can understand that as you can never get a leg up on the game. But there's a good way and a bad way to handle it and there's more shades of gray to the issue.
Pokemon Go for example has horrible power scaling, where I've been playing that shitshow of a game for years and it never feels like I actively make progress because AI trainers scale based on what you pick and will always have massively inflated combat power to make up for not being a player. Combined with Go's lack of real options in a fight it really feels like there's no real point to getting stronger.
On the other hand, the mainline games have way more options and thus ways to show alternative types of progression because you can collect badges and hit certain story beats. Instead of a hard level scaling you can do softer level scaling for certain hurdles in the game as has been laid out in the thread before. You still feel a sense of progression because your Pokemon are evolving, you're unlocking a larger roster of moves to pick from, and items to equip and thus expand your number of available strategies. Sideways progression is also a type of progression, and that's not bad either. Pretending only "my number is bigger than yours" counts as progression is moronic and dishonest. This also ignores that there's more to Pokemon than just battles: filling up your Pokedex could very easily be argued to be a type of progression which is separate from the progression of the battle system and will never be overshadowed by the game introducing some type of progress based level scaling.
However this is also Pokemon and I wouldn't trust Game Freak to actually implement this properly.
>homosexuals unironically complaining about level scaling again
the obvious fricking solution to satisfy dumbasses against it is to level-scale for weaker opponents only
to elaborate, make it where each gym still has a set order but give the weaker gym leaders teams for any badges ahead of theirs (i.e. gym 1 has eight teams, gym 2 has seven teams, gym 3 has six, so on)
then, when you defeat a higher level gym (say gym 4) only the weaker teams (gyms 1,2,3) will rise to the corresponding next team
this still allows people to fight the hardest gym leader first at its intended difficulty if they so desire while not completely making the previous ones a cakewalk
this isn't a perfect solution obviously (if you go from 4 back to 3 you might be over-leveled for 5) but it's an attempt (which game freak didn't do)
This could work
All of you guys forget this is a kid's game, if they just took level scaling but added 10 levels to each gym all the kids (and game journalists) would have trouble.
>this could work
yeah, it's literally keeps what the spergs are asking for: doesnt make progress """meaningless""", doesnt make it too challenging for the children, and still satisfies other people who dont want to steamroll seven gyms
you want to challenge the eight gym leader first? he still has an eight gym leader team and now the others aren't complete cakewalks as a response if you win
level scaling doesn't have to be for every single opponent and trainer yet somehow people are so low IQ they just dismiss the concept altogether
a more apt comparison would be the battle tower but yeah
and even then why assume level scaling would put your opponents at the same level and not above? literally moronic
>battle tower
I know you're agreeing with me but the battle tower isn't *that* easy despite being the same level, if these "same level is too easy" spergs really had a point they'd have long streaks on battle facilities despite shit teams with no IVs or EVs, yet they don't.
Little Jimmy is going to start the game, go off in a random direction, and get curb stomped by something 20 levels higher than them as is anyway due to how schizo world's level progression is
Stop asking for a linear route tards