enjoying it a shit ton so far, having just beaten yakumo and gotten to the shrine
I never finished IV, but this is keeping my attention much, much better in comparison
Never played anything else in the franchise, but I enjoyed V other than the dogshit """dungeon""'" areas. Are dungeons in other SMT games any better, or are they like that throughout the series?
Not really. I enjoyed it immensely, but everything outside of the core gameplay and music was a bit less interesting. I still prefer SMTIV's world design, with how so many areas wove in on themselves through shortcuts and alleyways. That and the atmosphere was 10/10. Nothing like roaming the dense, dark streets of a wrecked Tokyo, scrounging for resources while fighting off hordes of demons, barely making it from tunnel to tunnel for shelter. That and, as much as the story was a mess of law vs. chaos tropes, at least the characters made sense/were given enough time to develop. By the end of SMTV, I couldn't care less about the various characters who appeared maybe three times total.
SMTV was fun, but it genuinely felt like it needed longer before release. Which is crazy with how long ago it was announced. Still, if it leads to us getting another game like it, but more polished/better written, it's all good. SMTV is the type of game that just makes me excited for the sequel.
SMTV will get a rerelease which will just regurgitate the same story to you again but explain it to you in lore dumps like Maniax. And given everyone thinks SMTV had no story, suddenly everyone will see what they were doing and call it a god game, because people are liable to fall for the same bullshit again like they did with maniax.
I mean, they really don't have to add much to make the story decent. Just a few more scenes of character interaction and build-up to their choices regarding the throne. I don't think stories in SMT are hugely important, but they at least have to make sense and give some sense of progression as to how people become these demonic antagonists we inevitably put down. Most of the appeal of SMT is the atmosphere and gameplay. To which SMTV's story actually got in the way of all that with how poorly paced everything was.
I do hope they rerelease it personally. I know that's not great to hear, but the game genuinely could use it. Better performance on other consoles/PC, more scenes with characters to give their eventual downfall context, more end-game challenges besides Shiva, maybe even some improvements to the world to make it less like a constant series of desert worlds. It wouldn't be terribly hard to take SMTV from being a deeply flawed game to being one of the better entries in the series.
Your alignment reps don't need to go off the deep end and change drastically by the end of the game. SMT II didn't do this, and it didn't even happen to all your reason holders by the end of the game in III, namely Hikawa who was the same from start to finish and his only change was summoning his demon sponsor which was a physical change only. Yakumo, Nuwa, Yuzuru, and Koshimizu are the same characters they were from the beginning of the game you just find out more about why they think the way they do while Dazai didn't know what he wanted so he changes along the way like reps have in the past few games. And Dazai's change isn't drastic either, because you can talk to his buddy/roommate at the dorm and tells you about how he's changed.
I guess I would just prefer if there was a bit more to their change is all. Like, I get you can talk to Dazai's roommate to get some context. Or how you can talk to random civilians to find out how Yakumo lost a bunch of people to demons. But it's such a small bit of information for what eventually leads to these bombastic scenes of them throwing their humanity away to take the throne. I just wish there were one, maybe two extra scenes where it's like, "Oh yeah, Dazai is going a bit hard on all of this."
I don't know, maybe you're right. But I think a few more scenes with the characters would be nice, if anything to give the player a sense that they should care about them/their interests. There's so little reason to feel compelled to follow their examples when you maybe speak to them five times throughout an entire 50+ hour game. That and they act like buttholes a lot of the time. Like, Dazai sees that you're nearly killed by Abdiel during the meetings. But then five seconds later is like, "Hey, I wanna go talk to Abdiel and try to help her. Can you come with me?" A lot of the characters come off as completely disinterested in the protagonist's wellbeing or even their goals for the throne by the end. At least with Nocturne's characters, there was a mild amount of comradery if you sided with them.
>these bombastic scenes of them throwing their humanity away to take the throne
That didn't happen to any of them. Do you throw your humanity away despite being a Nahobino all game? All they did was fuse like you did. Abdiel threw away her "purity" and became a fallen angel but that's about it. Dazai just decided to start using his knowledge like Yakumo had been since the beginning. >I just wish there were one, maybe two extra scenes where it's like, "Oh yeah, Dazai is going a bit hard on all of this."
And your classmates warn you that Dazai is a fricking werido as early as the school section before the Lahmu invasion.
I mean I would like more scenes too, but the story is pretty much filled out with the npc dialog if you take the time to read it all. And the DLC adds exposition too. It tells you what happened to Demi at the end of TDE, that Lucifer is the same one from III, that Aogami was designed to try and be human (and attracted a human heart instead) and that Lahmu used to be in Bethel. This is all information you can gather from the game as is, but the dlc just helps to reinforce that information but not in an obnoxious way like maniax's power point presentations at the end of each kalpa.
>I know that's not great to hear, but the game genuinely could use it. Better performance on other consoles/PC
I don't even need the better performance. I just need the game to not be 540p in handheld mode. God fricking hell it's a blurry game with shadows that draw no further than 15 feet in static environments. Game could really use a port to anything else.
I don't know but most of the team that worked on V have said absolutely nothing besides tech demo explanations (likely out of obligation for using UE4) since release. Compare that to IV when the team truly believed that would be the last mainline game and they announced an art book, manga, and did a shit ton of interviews right after the game came out in less than a month. Also the 30th anniversary for SMT is coming in October. I would bet they are trying to make something in time to show off for the anniversary.
>SMTV was fun, but it genuinely felt like it needed longer before release. Which is crazy with how long ago it was announced.
I feel like the development changed directions at some point. The initial trailer had a focus on roses and Odin, they're both footnotes in the main game
>at least the characters made sense/were given enough time to develop.
You mean money, yes?
Because Mastema, he who caused all the events of the game to unfold, gets most of his development in paid DLCs.
The funnier part is that even though he should be alive in SMTIVA since it starts off the Neutral route before hunting down Merky and Lucy (a point in SMTIV at which Mastema is still alive), he's not present at all. He, Metraton and some others were relegated to generic enemy horde in the last story dungeon.
I love SMTIV, but man, let's not lie to ourselves; it has some big issues.
IV is genuinely unfinished and only uses a fraction of the original draft for the story. The story is also thematically all over the place. Honestly I prefer V's simple creation myth story
>IV is genuinely unfinished and only uses a fraction of the original draft for the story.
So does V >The story is also thematically all over the place.
So is V
They still do. The smirk system is pretty trash, the way the game determines your alignment is awful, a lot of the demon designs are atrocious, and the Neutral ending slog is pretty poorly designed.
I always loved the game, but there are some genuinely serious issues throughout. Same thing with SMTV. It just depends on how much people can look past those issues that determines general perception, to which you still get people dumping on SMTIV in threads.
>to "piss easy" after the first 5 or so hours
So did SMT V. I never struggled with any story bosses. The essence system makes V waaaayyyyy easier than IV, literally all you have to do is use essences to get the boss weakness lmao
>I think the SMT cycle is real
morons on Ganker and elsewhere operate by comparisons rather than actual critiques. if you bother looking at their merits and flaws individually you'll find IV is the same game it was 10~ years ago.
They still do. The smirk system is pretty trash, the way the game determines your alignment is awful, a lot of the demon designs are atrocious, and the Neutral ending slog is pretty poorly designed.
I always loved the game, but there are some genuinely serious issues throughout. Same thing with SMTV. It just depends on how much people can look past those issues that determines general perception, to which you still get people dumping on SMTIV in threads.
>They still do. The smirk system is pretty trash, the way the game determines your alignment is awful, a lot of the demon designs are atrocious, and the Neutral ending slog is pretty poorly designed.
Remember the fiends' spawn rate?
I sure as frick wish I didn't.
I didn't like IV's story or art direction but that game is infinitely better than whatever this shit was. SMT is dead. Enjoy your soulless Persona-lite corpse.
He literally changes at the drop of a hat. It's fricking hilarious that entire scene. I know there's some build up to his change, but goddamn it's so stupid how he slicks back his hair and bam, yellow demonic eyes.
He literally changes at the drop of a hat. It's fricking hilarious that entire scene. I know there's some build up to his change, but goddamn it's so stupid how he slicks back his hair and bam, yellow demonic eyes.
Did none of you care when Yakumo walked out with yellow eyes from the start?
What demons would Nahobino bring if he became a secret/DLC boss?
Demi-Fiend's party changed between DDS and SMTV, but he has the following demons in both: Pixie, Cu Chulainn, Parvati, Cerberus and Girimehkala. In DDS he had Arahabaki and Titania while in SMTVhe had Jack Frost and Thor.
Four Heavenly Kings aren't that important. You need to beat them for Masakados as well but Demi-Fiend never has them. Besides, it seems silly to dedicate four whole demon slots to them.
Obviously Amanozako would be in his party. Likely that tiny fire dragon demon that's new to the series as well that you find in the early game. Otherwise I could see Demeter, Odin, Zeus, Mermaid, Manananggal, Fionn Mac Cumhaill, Idunn, and Decarabia as being possibilities.
I think it'd partially depend on what demons are actually available in a given game. If Amanozako isn't in the game already, then she probably wouldn't be used as one of his demons.
Obviously Amanozako would be in his party. Likely that tiny fire dragon demon that's new to the series as well that you find in the early game. Otherwise I could see Demeter, Odin, Zeus, Mermaid, Manananggal, Fionn Mac Cumhaill, Idunn, and Decarabia as being possibilities.
There should have been more bosses in the Chaos mansion. I think the general idea behind that dungeon that it was meant to be a "fake final dungeon". They should have put a boss at the end of each section, big name head honchos of the Chaos faction, instead of just Arioch and Chernobog.
I just assumed that Arioch was the main spokesperson. Metatron was clearly already around (despite doing frick-all). Also why did no one think to unseal Michael beforehand?
>why did no one unseal Michael
No one was strong enough and anyone else with the potential probably didn't want to piss off Abdiel. Michael ranks much higher than her.
>The strongest members of Bethel were sent on the assault mission >None of the branch heads were there >No other devil summoners other than the ones sent by Bethel Japan were present >Literally the only major Bethel representatives were Abdiel (who did nothing), a handful of Angels and Powers (who were useless) and some Thrones (who were given to Dazai, who did nothing, ergo the Thrones also did nothing) and Hayataro (who did nothing).
This game was just making shit up from start to finish.
>None of the branch heads were there
Why do you assume they care? They did send demons out onto the battlefield. You can find Valkyries and the like all around that area.
How does the Shekinah Glory even work? I was under the assumption it was just Tokyo that was being simulated, but do Bethel's various divisions imply the rest of the world is too?
Does it kinda annoy anyone else how the True Demon ending is apparently 100% canon? The hell's the point of multiple endings if you're just gonna canonize one of them? True Demon wasn't even a thing in the original game, it was only added in Maniax.
They could have at least tried to keep it vague, but they gave Demi-Fiend the "King" ("King of Chaos" in JP) title in SMTV, which can only be gotten in the True Demon route.
canonizing one to use for a sequel is one thing, i just wish the "sequel" in this case wasn't such dogshit. III to V wasn't interesting in the way I to II was.
It's a sequel because the Lucifer from III and V are the same guy, and Demi killing Kagutsuchi is what leads to V's world having dead Kagutsuchis in the sky and needing a replacement for it.
I just assumed those were just easter eggs, not actually meant to be Kagutsuchis. Nahobinos and the Condemnation aren't entirely compatible with Nocturne's shit. If you didn't notice, multiple humans fuse with demons in that game but they don't become "Nahobinos", nor do they become Miman.
>If you didn't notice, multiple humans fuse with demons in that game but they don't become "Nahobinos"
Uh, when? Plenty of demons eat humans but that's not fusing. The students that were kidnapped for having knowledge didn't fuse either because their demon got scared or ran off by Fionn. And Miman only happened while the condemnation was still in effect. Sahori and Lahmu don't fuse properly because they physically can't agree with each other.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean in SMT3. Multiple characters fuse with demons in SMT3, but none of them are Nahobinos.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sorry I realized after posting you were talking about III. The reason for that is because you're right the rules changed. But that's because Demi ended the cycle of Amala which lead to Mandala taking over as the dominate cycle. I mean technically, Mandala always existed but since Amala was tied to Kagutsuchi and it's dead, Mandala is the main governing system now. In V, you're really just using replacements for the old system.
Also, and the beginning narration explains this, but the only reason there are Nahobinos to begin with is due to how the last creator set up the world. He's responsible for life and knowledge and human and demon frickery. In previous cycles under other Gods there were no Nahobinos.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think you're kind of reaching. I think SMT5 just uses a separate system from SMT3. See, the thing about SMT5 is that it's wholly devoted to its general concept. According to SMT5's lore, the Knowledge extracted from the original gods was placed into the Fruit of Knowledge. The reason humanity has the Knowledge of the gods is because the original humans ate the Fruit of Knowledge. Thus the entire humanity creation myth of SMT5 hinges on the fact that Nahobino were always a thing. If SMT3 and SMT5 are both part of the same world, then that means that everything that led up to SMT5 must have already been present in SMT3. Otherwise, if your theory that the Mandala system is a replacement for the Amala system is true, then that implies that on TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS, Lucifer tricked humanity into eating from the Fruit of Knowledge, once in the old world, and again in the new world. The only way for SMT4 and SMT5 to be the same world with the same YHVH and the same Lucifers is if the Mandala system and Nahobinos were already a thing BEFORE YHVH conceived of the Amala system. But once again, there's a problem: multiple humans fuse with demons in SMT3 but none of them become Nahobino or Miman. So you see, there's an issue.
By the way, Lucifer just doesn't seem like the same guy in both games to me. Especially if you consider that the Lucifer in SMT5 is Neutral-Neutral.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sorry I realized after posting you were talking about III. The reason for that is because you're right the rules changed. But that's because Demi ended the cycle of Amala which lead to Mandala taking over as the dominate cycle. I mean technically, Mandala always existed but since Amala was tied to Kagutsuchi and it's dead, Mandala is the main governing system now. In V, you're really just using replacements for the old system.
Also, and the beginning narration explains this, but the only reason there are Nahobinos to begin with is due to how the last creator set up the world. He's responsible for life and knowledge and human and demon frickery. In previous cycles under other Gods there were no Nahobinos.
Also, there is absolutely no reason why YHVH would create the Mandala system. The Mandala system explicitly makes it so that it's impossible for His rule to be permanent. His world would eventually come to an end no matter what. It's impossible for Him to create that system, it must have already existed from the outset. The reason he came up with the Condemnation and prohibited the existence of Nahobino was specifically in order to undermine that system.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I wasn't suggesting III and V are the same universe, they're just both part of the Amala Network, which is why you see the Amala Drum in V. Maniax stats all universes connected to the Amala Network/Universe are controlled by Kagutsuchi and the cycle of Amala, but Demi ended that which leads to the events in V. You can travel through Amala easily which is what Lucifer did. They say similar things in both games (mainly the anti-war and rebirth shit), they share the same voice actor from Nocturne HD, and the fact he summons the fiends from III to fight you pretty much confirm it's the same guy. He's just "enlightened" now after realizing killing Kagutsuchi wasn't all there was to it to kicking the Great Will in the balls.
[...]
Also, there is absolutely no reason why YHVH would create the Mandala system. The Mandala system explicitly makes it so that it's impossible for His rule to be permanent. His world would eventually come to an end no matter what. It's impossible for Him to create that system, it must have already existed from the outset. The reason he came up with the Condemnation and prohibited the existence of Nahobino was specifically in order to undermine that system.
The Great Will is behind all the rebirth cycles, the last creator didn't make it, he was trying to get around with with the tree of knowledge shit like you said.
2 years ago
Anonymous
There is absolutely nothing strange of different versions of the same guy having similarities. Like you said, SMT5 owes a lot to SMT3, but that's still no reason to believe that most of these easter eggs are anything but skin deep.
The Demi-Fiend DLC is just that, DLC. Nearly everything in that DLC's just shallow-ass references to SMT3.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There is absolutely nothing strange of different versions of the same guy having similarities
It is because the Lucifer in Nocturne is singular to that game. Outside of Nocturne, Lucifer in mainline loves birth and rebirth cycles because it gives him another opportunity to rule. The fact that it's Lucifer with the same motivations and summoning the same fiends is way too many coincidences not to assume it's not the same guy and not just dismiss it as "shallow references" when there is no reason to.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon, SMT5 is filled with a ton of dumb little easter eggs for SMT3, like with Forneus and Decarabia, or Mara, or the Archangels having been felled in roughly the same place as they were in SMT3. These games were basically written by the same guy, so it stands to reason that his Lucifers would be similar as well.
Or better yet, how about you fricking explain how in the frick the Amala Network and its Conceptions can co-exist with the Mandala system. Because unless there's something specifically special about this particular world, that doesn't fricking work. As I said, SMT5's general lore directly contradicts SMT3's.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>As I said, SMT5's general lore directly contradicts SMT3's.
It doesn't. III and V are in a different universe connected to the Amala Network. You're suggesting they contradict because III world started differently from V, but that's the point. Before Demi killed Kagutsuchi, V's world was under Amala which is why you still see dead Kagutsuchis in the sky.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No. Again, read what I fricking said. In order for that to be true, it means that after the destruction of the Amala Network, either YHVH or the Great Will would have needed to create the Mandala System as a replacement. Now we know it couldn't have been YHVH who created the system because the entire reason for the Condemnation was specifically in order to undermine it. Second, the Fruit of Knowledge was created specifically by taking the knowledge of the old gods away from them and banning the existence of Nahobino.
So according to YOUR fricking logic, the following things must have occurred:
1) After the destruction of Kagutsuchi and the Amala Network, the Great Will set up the Mandala System and YHVH did a world reset.
2) He stole the Knowledge from the previous gods which subsequently degraded them to the form of demons
3) The Lucifer of SMT3 had the humanity of SMT5's world eat the Fruit of Knowledge, thus spreading that Knowledge throughout the human race.
So the same Lucifer had humanity eat the Fruit of Knowledge twice. YHVH made the mistake of creating the Fruit of Knowledge and allowed humanity to eat it twice. That is what you are saying.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it means that after the destruction of the Amala Network, either YHVH or the Great Will would have needed to create the Mandala System as a replacement
V tells you Mandala is a machination of the Great Will so I don't know why you're bringing YHVH into it when he doesn't even compare. If you refer to
Interesting is debatable. Maniax added a bunch of world building which was pretty much never used again. The shit with multiple worlds experiencing conception and the Amala Network for a long time was assumed to apply to mainline in general but it doesn't, it's only part of Nocturne. V is basically a new game setting built from all that world building written by the same guy who originally wrote it.
Who Demi ended up after TDE is pretty shit though. So much for his big war against the Great Will.
Mandala always existed, stopping Amala inevitably didn't change anything like Lucifer wanted it to at the end of TDE. >Second, the Fruit of Knowledge was created specifically by taking the knowledge of the old gods away from them and banning the existence of Nahobino.
This only applied to V's universe, not any other. That's why I said there were no Nahobinos in III or before the last god, it's singular to to that world. Notice how Lucifer doesn't say he ever lost his Knowledge? He is not from V's world. Do you think when you chose a reason in III that reason applied to every universe in the Amala Network? No. Maniax also states that Gods and demons belong to their own universes, that's why you had goddesses like Aradia because their universe died and it left them non-existent.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your entire fricking argument involves SMT5's world originally being part of the Amala Network. That's the fricking crux of everything you've been fricking saying. So which is it? Was it part of the Amala Network or is it its own separate thing with its own unique rules?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>So which is it? Was it part of the Amala Network or is it its own separate thing with its own unique rules?
It's both you moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
Did I just not get fricking done explaining how SMT5's rule are incompatible with the Amala Network you fricking jackass?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>SMT I-II Lucy: full of vim and vigor for taking the reigns of the world from YHVH >SMT III Lucy: Old and tired but still hopeful of chaos winning Armageddon and sticking bugs down children's throats >SMT IV Lucy: Not Lucifer. Some rando half Satan Squidward >SMT V Lucy: Very tired and very jaded Lucy, doesn't want to be the devil anymore just wants to go to home and take a nap, defeating YHVH wasn't satisfying and his knowledge tasted funky
2 years ago
Anonymous
The Lucifer in SMT4 is just what happens when YHVH takes a different approach to the Lucifer/Satan project. I don't actually know what purpose Lucifer originally served in the other universes, but I guess SMT4 had his own ideas.
Interesting is debatable. Maniax added a bunch of world building which was pretty much never used again. The shit with multiple worlds experiencing conception and the Amala Network for a long time was assumed to apply to mainline in general but it doesn't, it's only part of Nocturne. V is basically a new game setting built from all that world building written by the same guy who originally wrote it.
Who Demi ended up after TDE is pretty shit though. So much for his big war against the Great Will.
>Did it live up to the masterpiece that was SMT IV? >IV >masterpiece
lmao, the best part of IV was the OST which 5 doesn't live up to either, combat was better in V but I would still say IV > V despite IV's many flaws.
Story wise it doesn't hold a candle
Music wise it's a downgrade
Character design wise is more often an eyesore than not
Everything else is an improvement
My issue with the True Demon Ending is that it basically means the protagonist gives up his humanity. He's no different from his friends or Hikawa. He lost to the madness of the Vortex World and gave up what made him human.
The Freedom Ending can only be achieved by clinging onto your humanity to the very end.
The True Demon Ending is achieved by giving up your humanity and becoming just another monster. An exceptionally powerful monster, but still just a monster.
TDE was tacked on and meant to be edgy and cool, that's why. Freedom is what the game was originally about, having hope in the future.
Did I just not get fricking done explaining how SMT5's rule are incompatible with the Amala Network you fricking jackass?
And i keep explaining to you how confused you are about that. V is in the age after Kagutsuchi and is in a different universe. So it does have different rules and it is apart of Amala. The only requirement for a world connected to Amala is that conception happens and Kagutsuchi rises and falls, and that's literally it. The rest can be as different as it wants to be. And where Kagutsuchi is gone, V has replacements. Tao is your new Kagutsuchi and the throne exists where Kagutsuchi used to be for your world.
SMT V reminds me of pokemon, the core design of pokemon is inherently fun and you will have a generally good time even if the game is kinda meh outside of that. It's the same here, the core gameplay of demon gathering and getting new skills, hitting weaknesses etc are fun but the campaign built around that is lacking in pretty much all other regards. It's 6/10 at best.
Levels aren't the problem, it's skill limits. You can't unlock all eight skill slots until the end of the game and that causes more issues than mere levels. Levels aren't that big of a deal. Red Mitama are relatively common and there's multiple demon statues in each map that let you level up demons instantly. But none of that matters; skill limits are what really frick your demons over.
My Oni has good skill levels which can be increased with sutras
But the guy is 8 level behinds, and like I said he's too good to get rid off. He has armor piercing, fang breaker and taunt, even if he doesn't do much damage that's a lot of utility
Skill affinity isn't the issue either, because as you said, Sutras exist. The problem is that skill slots can only be unlocked once per area, so you're stuck with 4/5/6/7 slots per demon. It's only once you reach the final area when you can finally unlock all eight slots.
I quite like the fact skill slots are apps you need to go out and find. In actuality skill slots are the most powerful resource in the game, and you really have to do more with less, swapping in demons more often early game to make up for the lesser moves.
Let's be real, if Devil Summoners actually existed in the Nusona world, then the Kuzunoha Clan or whatever probably would have gotten involved with that Nyx shit long before P3 started. That shit was happening for ten whole years and you expect me to believe that no Devil Summoners whatsoever were aware of it? I mean surely they would have noticed the Dark Hour. Devil Summoners get involved in freaky dimensional bullshit every day.
At least it doesn't have IV's disgusting demon designs. Doi leaves a lot to be desired, and a large chunk of his demons are just "cute human girls" not that I'm complaining, but anything he makes his better than the ugly shit in 4.
Point is a lot of the demons that Doi is assigned to draw kind of fall under a handful of specific categories. I can't say his more monstrous designs are all that good either though. Like his Satan.
Shame his signature move scales off Magic when his Magic stat's so fricking low. You need to shove a ton of incense onto him to make it work. It's kinda dumb, and honestly not really worth it. Which is funny because it's also the strongest elec spell in the game.
City Ruins are the best locations though. Both design wise but even aesthetically they feel different, first area is a true desert with great dunes and sweeping valleys, second area is a city sinking into a quagmire with a hidden untouched forest spring, third area is a war zone divided into two layers with fog of war on the lower levels, third area is a big open tundra divided into three seperate zones controlled by the respective Bethel heads.
Compared to that school, hell castle and heaven temple are boring designs, like the less inspired Nocturne dungeons.
I really like it on many levels, the fact he's a machine angel like the Law upper brass is a nice touch and him using both YHVH and DF's attacks is cool.
Ironically stands on the ground more as Mecha Lucifer than as normal Lucifer that actually has feet but never walks.
I think Doi might have taken too much from Soejima. Soejima's Persona designs tend to not have normal feet, but I think that approach tends to work better for Personas than demons.
It lived up in terms of gameplay, but fell short with the story and implementation of the alignments. I did not feel like much of what I decided mattered in the end and that’s not a great feeling for SMT.
They've always had a hard time with alignments. The fundamental flaw with the alignment systems is that just because you behave a certain way throughout the game does not necessarily mean that you would choose to ultimately side with those whom your choices might represent. SMT5 is actually a good example of this; most Law-associated choices tend to be about helping others, being kind and generally not being a dick, while most Chaos-associated choices are just you being a dick. And that's sort of an issue; for anyone who isn't aware of what these choices actually affect, they might end up being Law-aligned in the profile but end up choosing Chaos instead. If you choose a path that doesn't match your alignment, then you don't get the special Miracle associated with that path, AND you have to pay exorbitant fees just to do a certain quest.
Making choices actually matter can potentially end up reducing the player's agency. What if you make a bunch of Chaos-aligned choices throughout the game but don't actually want to side with the forces of Chaos?
>What if you make a bunch of Chaos-aligned choices throughout the game but don't actually want to side with the forces of Chaos?
Sounds like a casual filter, what's the problem?
I like SMT5. I like it less than SMT3 and Strange Journey, but it's fine. Kind of unfinished. Kinda short. Probably has the absolute worst fricking skill descriptions in the entire goddamn franchise, holy fricking shit.
It runs like total dogshit but what's new in this series. Outside of that, it's damn good and I'm impressed they made something competent given how hushed they were about for some time.
Tao is the dumbest shit. >You can save her in the Compendium but you can't actually summon her.
Can't this b***h fricking do ANYTHING right? I wish her friend joined my party instead. Or the glasses girl. Either one of them would be better than Tao. Even if both of them suck, at least they're not Tao.
The worst thing is that Tao has a better version of Idun's Golden Apple that also costs less. But since you can't actually summon her from the Compendium, it's not worth really using her.
You can use Tao for everything in the game except for the final boss, including Shiva and Demifiend. Just proper her up with grimoires and healing sutras and she's still the best healer type other than maybe Demeter.
>Gameplay
III > V >IV >Story
IV > III > V >Characters
V > IV > III >Music
V > III > IV >Replayability
V > IV > III >Graphics
V > IV > III >Level up SFX
IV > V > III >Colours
III > V > IV >Start Menu
IV > III> V >Gameplay
IV > III > V >Credits
V > IV > III
don't you ever get tired of this shit?
>book is written by a f a g and movie directed by a roastie
Why does this keep happening bros
It surpassed it easily
enjoying it a shit ton so far, having just beaten yakumo and gotten to the shrine
I never finished IV, but this is keeping my attention much, much better in comparison
Easily the worst mainline game
IV shits on V's corpse
IV gays are a cancer that can never be cured.
>Can't even get Satan in this game
>There's no skin for classic Lucifer
Why.
>skin for classic Lucifer
You can't fuse Lucifer at all.
Never played anything else in the franchise, but I enjoyed V other than the dogshit """dungeon""'" areas. Are dungeons in other SMT games any better, or are they like that throughout the series?
Dungeons are far better in the previous games.
Smt is all about dungeon crawling and SMTV is actually the game that tried something different.
>Are dungeons in other SMT games any better
lol, good luck, my man
Not really. I enjoyed it immensely, but everything outside of the core gameplay and music was a bit less interesting. I still prefer SMTIV's world design, with how so many areas wove in on themselves through shortcuts and alleyways. That and the atmosphere was 10/10. Nothing like roaming the dense, dark streets of a wrecked Tokyo, scrounging for resources while fighting off hordes of demons, barely making it from tunnel to tunnel for shelter. That and, as much as the story was a mess of law vs. chaos tropes, at least the characters made sense/were given enough time to develop. By the end of SMTV, I couldn't care less about the various characters who appeared maybe three times total.
SMTV was fun, but it genuinely felt like it needed longer before release. Which is crazy with how long ago it was announced. Still, if it leads to us getting another game like it, but more polished/better written, it's all good. SMTV is the type of game that just makes me excited for the sequel.
Which I'm sure we'll see 20 years from now.
SMTV will get a rerelease which will just regurgitate the same story to you again but explain it to you in lore dumps like Maniax. And given everyone thinks SMTV had no story, suddenly everyone will see what they were doing and call it a god game, because people are liable to fall for the same bullshit again like they did with maniax.
I mean, they really don't have to add much to make the story decent. Just a few more scenes of character interaction and build-up to their choices regarding the throne. I don't think stories in SMT are hugely important, but they at least have to make sense and give some sense of progression as to how people become these demonic antagonists we inevitably put down. Most of the appeal of SMT is the atmosphere and gameplay. To which SMTV's story actually got in the way of all that with how poorly paced everything was.
I do hope they rerelease it personally. I know that's not great to hear, but the game genuinely could use it. Better performance on other consoles/PC, more scenes with characters to give their eventual downfall context, more end-game challenges besides Shiva, maybe even some improvements to the world to make it less like a constant series of desert worlds. It wouldn't be terribly hard to take SMTV from being a deeply flawed game to being one of the better entries in the series.
Your alignment reps don't need to go off the deep end and change drastically by the end of the game. SMT II didn't do this, and it didn't even happen to all your reason holders by the end of the game in III, namely Hikawa who was the same from start to finish and his only change was summoning his demon sponsor which was a physical change only. Yakumo, Nuwa, Yuzuru, and Koshimizu are the same characters they were from the beginning of the game you just find out more about why they think the way they do while Dazai didn't know what he wanted so he changes along the way like reps have in the past few games. And Dazai's change isn't drastic either, because you can talk to his buddy/roommate at the dorm and tells you about how he's changed.
I guess I would just prefer if there was a bit more to their change is all. Like, I get you can talk to Dazai's roommate to get some context. Or how you can talk to random civilians to find out how Yakumo lost a bunch of people to demons. But it's such a small bit of information for what eventually leads to these bombastic scenes of them throwing their humanity away to take the throne. I just wish there were one, maybe two extra scenes where it's like, "Oh yeah, Dazai is going a bit hard on all of this."
I don't know, maybe you're right. But I think a few more scenes with the characters would be nice, if anything to give the player a sense that they should care about them/their interests. There's so little reason to feel compelled to follow their examples when you maybe speak to them five times throughout an entire 50+ hour game. That and they act like buttholes a lot of the time. Like, Dazai sees that you're nearly killed by Abdiel during the meetings. But then five seconds later is like, "Hey, I wanna go talk to Abdiel and try to help her. Can you come with me?" A lot of the characters come off as completely disinterested in the protagonist's wellbeing or even their goals for the throne by the end. At least with Nocturne's characters, there was a mild amount of comradery if you sided with them.
>these bombastic scenes of them throwing their humanity away to take the throne
That didn't happen to any of them. Do you throw your humanity away despite being a Nahobino all game? All they did was fuse like you did. Abdiel threw away her "purity" and became a fallen angel but that's about it. Dazai just decided to start using his knowledge like Yakumo had been since the beginning.
>I just wish there were one, maybe two extra scenes where it's like, "Oh yeah, Dazai is going a bit hard on all of this."
And your classmates warn you that Dazai is a fricking werido as early as the school section before the Lahmu invasion.
I mean I would like more scenes too, but the story is pretty much filled out with the npc dialog if you take the time to read it all. And the DLC adds exposition too. It tells you what happened to Demi at the end of TDE, that Lucifer is the same one from III, that Aogami was designed to try and be human (and attracted a human heart instead) and that Lahmu used to be in Bethel. This is all information you can gather from the game as is, but the dlc just helps to reinforce that information but not in an obnoxious way like maniax's power point presentations at the end of each kalpa.
>I know that's not great to hear, but the game genuinely could use it. Better performance on other consoles/PC
I don't even need the better performance. I just need the game to not be 540p in handheld mode. God fricking hell it's a blurry game with shadows that draw no further than 15 feet in static environments. Game could really use a port to anything else.
but maniax ruined nocturne's story
>nocturne
>story
Lol, lmao even
>SMTV will get a rerelease
How many years was it from SMT 4 and Apocalypse?
I don't know but most of the team that worked on V have said absolutely nothing besides tech demo explanations (likely out of obligation for using UE4) since release. Compare that to IV when the team truly believed that would be the last mainline game and they announced an art book, manga, and did a shit ton of interviews right after the game came out in less than a month. Also the 30th anniversary for SMT is coming in October. I would bet they are trying to make something in time to show off for the anniversary.
It was 3 years. IV came out in 2013 and IV Apocalypse in 2016 but it was announced in 2015.
Apocalypse isn't a rerelease
>SMTV was fun, but it genuinely felt like it needed longer before release. Which is crazy with how long ago it was announced.
I feel like the development changed directions at some point. The initial trailer had a focus on roses and Odin, they're both footnotes in the main game
The original trailer was a UE4 tech demo. The rose motif was magatsuhi.
>at least the characters made sense/were given enough time to develop.
You mean money, yes?
Because Mastema, he who caused all the events of the game to unfold, gets most of his development in paid DLCs.
The funnier part is that even though he should be alive in SMTIVA since it starts off the Neutral route before hunting down Merky and Lucy (a point in SMTIV at which Mastema is still alive), he's not present at all. He, Metraton and some others were relegated to generic enemy horde in the last story dungeon.
I love SMTIV, but man, let's not lie to ourselves; it has some big issues.
IV is genuinely unfinished and only uses a fraction of the original draft for the story. The story is also thematically all over the place. Honestly I prefer V's simple creation myth story
>IV is genuinely unfinished and only uses a fraction of the original draft for the story.
So does V
>The story is also thematically all over the place.
So is V
I think the SMT cycle is real, Ganker shat on IV for years.
They still do. The smirk system is pretty trash, the way the game determines your alignment is awful, a lot of the demon designs are atrocious, and the Neutral ending slog is pretty poorly designed.
I always loved the game, but there are some genuinely serious issues throughout. Same thing with SMTV. It just depends on how much people can look past those issues that determines general perception, to which you still get people dumping on SMTIV in threads.
Also, the difficulty went from "pretty respectable" to "piss easy" after the first 5 or so hours
>to "piss easy" after the first 5 or so hours
So did SMT V. I never struggled with any story bosses. The essence system makes V waaaayyyyy easier than IV, literally all you have to do is use essences to get the boss weakness lmao
>I think the SMT cycle is real
morons on Ganker and elsewhere operate by comparisons rather than actual critiques. if you bother looking at their merits and flaws individually you'll find IV is the same game it was 10~ years ago.
>They still do. The smirk system is pretty trash, the way the game determines your alignment is awful, a lot of the demon designs are atrocious, and the Neutral ending slog is pretty poorly designed.
Remember the fiends' spawn rate?
I sure as frick wish I didn't.
I didn't like IV's story or art direction but that game is infinitely better than whatever this shit was. SMT is dead. Enjoy your soulless Persona-lite corpse.
Jack Frost culo.
What if nahobino was replaced by demi-fiend?
For me, it's Mephisto.
Dazai's personality did a total 180 when he decided to go Law. Kinda silly.
He literally changes at the drop of a hat. It's fricking hilarious that entire scene. I know there's some build up to his change, but goddamn it's so stupid how he slicks back his hair and bam, yellow demonic eyes.
Did none of you care when Yakumo walked out with yellow eyes from the start?
What demons would Nahobino bring if he became a secret/DLC boss?
Demi-Fiend's party changed between DDS and SMTV, but he has the following demons in both: Pixie, Cu Chulainn, Parvati, Cerberus and Girimehkala. In DDS he had Arahabaki and Titania while in SMTVhe had Jack Frost and Thor.
Amanozako, Fionn, and the four Heavenly Kings.
Four Heavenly Kings aren't that important. You need to beat them for Masakados as well but Demi-Fiend never has them. Besides, it seems silly to dedicate four whole demon slots to them.
I think it'd partially depend on what demons are actually available in a given game. If Amanozako isn't in the game already, then she probably wouldn't be used as one of his demons.
Obviously Amanozako would be in his party. Likely that tiny fire dragon demon that's new to the series as well that you find in the early game. Otherwise I could see Demeter, Odin, Zeus, Mermaid, Manananggal, Fionn Mac Cumhaill, Idunn, and Decarabia as being possibilities.
Great game with a weirdly railroaded third act
No, not by a long shot. But it set the groundwork for a future SMT to as good if not better
How much longer untill SMT V: Apocalypse Redux maniax edition featuring Vergil from the Devil May Cry series?
There should have been more bosses in the Chaos mansion. I think the general idea behind that dungeon that it was meant to be a "fake final dungeon". They should have put a boss at the end of each section, big name head honchos of the Chaos faction, instead of just Arioch and Chernobog.
Arioch being the "demon king" was for a reason though. He's Abdiel's direct counterpart.
I just assumed that Arioch was the main spokesperson. Metatron was clearly already around (despite doing frick-all). Also why did no one think to unseal Michael beforehand?
>why did no one unseal Michael
No one was strong enough and anyone else with the potential probably didn't want to piss off Abdiel. Michael ranks much higher than her.
>The strongest members of Bethel were sent on the assault mission
>None of the branch heads were there
>No other devil summoners other than the ones sent by Bethel Japan were present
>Literally the only major Bethel representatives were Abdiel (who did nothing), a handful of Angels and Powers (who were useless) and some Thrones (who were given to Dazai, who did nothing, ergo the Thrones also did nothing) and Hayataro (who did nothing).
This game was just making shit up from start to finish.
>None of the branch heads were there
Why do you assume they care? They did send demons out onto the battlefield. You can find Valkyries and the like all around that area.
How does the Shekinah Glory even work? I was under the assumption it was just Tokyo that was being simulated, but do Bethel's various divisions imply the rest of the world is too?
The rest of the world is fine. Tokyo is all that got fricked.
Does it kinda annoy anyone else how the True Demon ending is apparently 100% canon? The hell's the point of multiple endings if you're just gonna canonize one of them? True Demon wasn't even a thing in the original game, it was only added in Maniax.
I blame several factors
>Yamai
>fan base
>Nocturne Maxiax is what sold well, not vanilla Nocture
They could have at least tried to keep it vague, but they gave Demi-Fiend the "King" ("King of Chaos" in JP) title in SMTV, which can only be gotten in the True Demon route.
canonizing one to use for a sequel is one thing, i just wish the "sequel" in this case wasn't such dogshit. III to V wasn't interesting in the way I to II was.
It's not really a sequel. These two games clearly take place in separate universes with separate rules.
It's a sequel because the Lucifer from III and V are the same guy, and Demi killing Kagutsuchi is what leads to V's world having dead Kagutsuchis in the sky and needing a replacement for it.
I just assumed those were just easter eggs, not actually meant to be Kagutsuchis. Nahobinos and the Condemnation aren't entirely compatible with Nocturne's shit. If you didn't notice, multiple humans fuse with demons in that game but they don't become "Nahobinos", nor do they become Miman.
>If you didn't notice, multiple humans fuse with demons in that game but they don't become "Nahobinos"
Uh, when? Plenty of demons eat humans but that's not fusing. The students that were kidnapped for having knowledge didn't fuse either because their demon got scared or ran off by Fionn. And Miman only happened while the condemnation was still in effect. Sahori and Lahmu don't fuse properly because they physically can't agree with each other.
I mean in SMT3. Multiple characters fuse with demons in SMT3, but none of them are Nahobinos.
Sorry I realized after posting you were talking about III. The reason for that is because you're right the rules changed. But that's because Demi ended the cycle of Amala which lead to Mandala taking over as the dominate cycle. I mean technically, Mandala always existed but since Amala was tied to Kagutsuchi and it's dead, Mandala is the main governing system now. In V, you're really just using replacements for the old system.
Also, and the beginning narration explains this, but the only reason there are Nahobinos to begin with is due to how the last creator set up the world. He's responsible for life and knowledge and human and demon frickery. In previous cycles under other Gods there were no Nahobinos.
I think you're kind of reaching. I think SMT5 just uses a separate system from SMT3. See, the thing about SMT5 is that it's wholly devoted to its general concept. According to SMT5's lore, the Knowledge extracted from the original gods was placed into the Fruit of Knowledge. The reason humanity has the Knowledge of the gods is because the original humans ate the Fruit of Knowledge. Thus the entire humanity creation myth of SMT5 hinges on the fact that Nahobino were always a thing. If SMT3 and SMT5 are both part of the same world, then that means that everything that led up to SMT5 must have already been present in SMT3. Otherwise, if your theory that the Mandala system is a replacement for the Amala system is true, then that implies that on TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS, Lucifer tricked humanity into eating from the Fruit of Knowledge, once in the old world, and again in the new world. The only way for SMT4 and SMT5 to be the same world with the same YHVH and the same Lucifers is if the Mandala system and Nahobinos were already a thing BEFORE YHVH conceived of the Amala system. But once again, there's a problem: multiple humans fuse with demons in SMT3 but none of them become Nahobino or Miman. So you see, there's an issue.
By the way, Lucifer just doesn't seem like the same guy in both games to me. Especially if you consider that the Lucifer in SMT5 is Neutral-Neutral.
Also, there is absolutely no reason why YHVH would create the Mandala system. The Mandala system explicitly makes it so that it's impossible for His rule to be permanent. His world would eventually come to an end no matter what. It's impossible for Him to create that system, it must have already existed from the outset. The reason he came up with the Condemnation and prohibited the existence of Nahobino was specifically in order to undermine that system.
I wasn't suggesting III and V are the same universe, they're just both part of the Amala Network, which is why you see the Amala Drum in V. Maniax stats all universes connected to the Amala Network/Universe are controlled by Kagutsuchi and the cycle of Amala, but Demi ended that which leads to the events in V. You can travel through Amala easily which is what Lucifer did. They say similar things in both games (mainly the anti-war and rebirth shit), they share the same voice actor from Nocturne HD, and the fact he summons the fiends from III to fight you pretty much confirm it's the same guy. He's just "enlightened" now after realizing killing Kagutsuchi wasn't all there was to it to kicking the Great Will in the balls.
The Great Will is behind all the rebirth cycles, the last creator didn't make it, he was trying to get around with with the tree of knowledge shit like you said.
There is absolutely nothing strange of different versions of the same guy having similarities. Like you said, SMT5 owes a lot to SMT3, but that's still no reason to believe that most of these easter eggs are anything but skin deep.
The Demi-Fiend DLC is just that, DLC. Nearly everything in that DLC's just shallow-ass references to SMT3.
>There is absolutely nothing strange of different versions of the same guy having similarities
It is because the Lucifer in Nocturne is singular to that game. Outside of Nocturne, Lucifer in mainline loves birth and rebirth cycles because it gives him another opportunity to rule. The fact that it's Lucifer with the same motivations and summoning the same fiends is way too many coincidences not to assume it's not the same guy and not just dismiss it as "shallow references" when there is no reason to.
Anon, SMT5 is filled with a ton of dumb little easter eggs for SMT3, like with Forneus and Decarabia, or Mara, or the Archangels having been felled in roughly the same place as they were in SMT3. These games were basically written by the same guy, so it stands to reason that his Lucifers would be similar as well.
Or better yet, how about you fricking explain how in the frick the Amala Network and its Conceptions can co-exist with the Mandala system. Because unless there's something specifically special about this particular world, that doesn't fricking work. As I said, SMT5's general lore directly contradicts SMT3's.
>As I said, SMT5's general lore directly contradicts SMT3's.
It doesn't. III and V are in a different universe connected to the Amala Network. You're suggesting they contradict because III world started differently from V, but that's the point. Before Demi killed Kagutsuchi, V's world was under Amala which is why you still see dead Kagutsuchis in the sky.
No. Again, read what I fricking said. In order for that to be true, it means that after the destruction of the Amala Network, either YHVH or the Great Will would have needed to create the Mandala System as a replacement. Now we know it couldn't have been YHVH who created the system because the entire reason for the Condemnation was specifically in order to undermine it. Second, the Fruit of Knowledge was created specifically by taking the knowledge of the old gods away from them and banning the existence of Nahobino.
So according to YOUR fricking logic, the following things must have occurred:
1) After the destruction of Kagutsuchi and the Amala Network, the Great Will set up the Mandala System and YHVH did a world reset.
2) He stole the Knowledge from the previous gods which subsequently degraded them to the form of demons
3) The Lucifer of SMT3 had the humanity of SMT5's world eat the Fruit of Knowledge, thus spreading that Knowledge throughout the human race.
So the same Lucifer had humanity eat the Fruit of Knowledge twice. YHVH made the mistake of creating the Fruit of Knowledge and allowed humanity to eat it twice. That is what you are saying.
>it means that after the destruction of the Amala Network, either YHVH or the Great Will would have needed to create the Mandala System as a replacement
V tells you Mandala is a machination of the Great Will so I don't know why you're bringing YHVH into it when he doesn't even compare. If you refer to
Mandala always existed, stopping Amala inevitably didn't change anything like Lucifer wanted it to at the end of TDE.
>Second, the Fruit of Knowledge was created specifically by taking the knowledge of the old gods away from them and banning the existence of Nahobino.
This only applied to V's universe, not any other. That's why I said there were no Nahobinos in III or before the last god, it's singular to to that world. Notice how Lucifer doesn't say he ever lost his Knowledge? He is not from V's world. Do you think when you chose a reason in III that reason applied to every universe in the Amala Network? No. Maniax also states that Gods and demons belong to their own universes, that's why you had goddesses like Aradia because their universe died and it left them non-existent.
Your entire fricking argument involves SMT5's world originally being part of the Amala Network. That's the fricking crux of everything you've been fricking saying. So which is it? Was it part of the Amala Network or is it its own separate thing with its own unique rules?
>So which is it? Was it part of the Amala Network or is it its own separate thing with its own unique rules?
It's both you moron
Did I just not get fricking done explaining how SMT5's rule are incompatible with the Amala Network you fricking jackass?
>SMT I-II Lucy: full of vim and vigor for taking the reigns of the world from YHVH
>SMT III Lucy: Old and tired but still hopeful of chaos winning Armageddon and sticking bugs down children's throats
>SMT IV Lucy: Not Lucifer. Some rando half Satan Squidward
>SMT V Lucy: Very tired and very jaded Lucy, doesn't want to be the devil anymore just wants to go to home and take a nap, defeating YHVH wasn't satisfying and his knowledge tasted funky
The Lucifer in SMT4 is just what happens when YHVH takes a different approach to the Lucifer/Satan project. I don't actually know what purpose Lucifer originally served in the other universes, but I guess SMT4 had his own ideas.
Interesting is debatable. Maniax added a bunch of world building which was pretty much never used again. The shit with multiple worlds experiencing conception and the Amala Network for a long time was assumed to apply to mainline in general but it doesn't, it's only part of Nocturne. V is basically a new game setting built from all that world building written by the same guy who originally wrote it.
Who Demi ended up after TDE is pretty shit though. So much for his big war against the Great Will.
I mean, there's zero reason to do any other ending in Nocturne so whatever.
Covid shit fricked up the development
>Did it live up to the masterpiece that was SMT IV?
>IV
>masterpiece
lmao, the best part of IV was the OST which 5 doesn't live up to either, combat was better in V but I would still say IV > V despite IV's many flaws.
SMT IV is a masterpiece
Story wise it doesn't hold a candle
Music wise it's a downgrade
Character design wise is more often an eyesore than not
Everything else is an improvement
SMT IV is a masterpiece
My issue with the True Demon Ending is that it basically means the protagonist gives up his humanity. He's no different from his friends or Hikawa. He lost to the madness of the Vortex World and gave up what made him human.
The Freedom Ending can only be achieved by clinging onto your humanity to the very end.
The True Demon Ending is achieved by giving up your humanity and becoming just another monster. An exceptionally powerful monster, but still just a monster.
TDE was tacked on and meant to be edgy and cool, that's why. Freedom is what the game was originally about, having hope in the future.
And i keep explaining to you how confused you are about that. V is in the age after Kagutsuchi and is in a different universe. So it does have different rules and it is apart of Amala. The only requirement for a world connected to Amala is that conception happens and Kagutsuchi rises and falls, and that's literally it. The rest can be as different as it wants to be. And where Kagutsuchi is gone, V has replacements. Tao is your new Kagutsuchi and the throne exists where Kagutsuchi used to be for your world.
SMT V reminds me of pokemon, the core design of pokemon is inherently fun and you will have a generally good time even if the game is kinda meh outside of that. It's the same here, the core gameplay of demon gathering and getting new skills, hitting weaknesses etc are fun but the campaign built around that is lacking in pretty much all other regards. It's 6/10 at best.
Don't you just hate it when a demon is too good to fuse yet it's behind in levels so you have to fuse it in order to not waste slots
And what even is the point of special fusions
Levels aren't the problem, it's skill limits. You can't unlock all eight skill slots until the end of the game and that causes more issues than mere levels. Levels aren't that big of a deal. Red Mitama are relatively common and there's multiple demon statues in each map that let you level up demons instantly. But none of that matters; skill limits are what really frick your demons over.
My Oni has good skill levels which can be increased with sutras
But the guy is 8 level behinds, and like I said he's too good to get rid off. He has armor piercing, fang breaker and taunt, even if he doesn't do much damage that's a lot of utility
Skill affinity isn't the issue either, because as you said, Sutras exist. The problem is that skill slots can only be unlocked once per area, so you're stuck with 4/5/6/7 slots per demon. It's only once you reach the final area when you can finally unlock all eight slots.
I quite like the fact skill slots are apps you need to go out and find. In actuality skill slots are the most powerful resource in the game, and you really have to do more with less, swapping in demons more often early game to make up for the lesser moves.
Smtiv is not a masterpiece, it is better than smt v which is troony garbage. Smt 3 nocturne is masterpiece and peak smt.
Stop calling SMT V troony game when there's a MegaTen game(s) with an actual troony character.
>SH2 is in continuity with SH1
Well now it definitely can't be in the Nusona universe.
Why would it not be?
The most advanced things in Nusona are EMMA and Sophia. What I saw in Soul Hackers 2's trailers far exceeds anything that exists in 20XX Nusona.
Let's be real, if Devil Summoners actually existed in the Nusona world, then the Kuzunoha Clan or whatever probably would have gotten involved with that Nyx shit long before P3 started. That shit was happening for ten whole years and you expect me to believe that no Devil Summoners whatsoever were aware of it? I mean surely they would have noticed the Dark Hour. Devil Summoners get involved in freaky dimensional bullshit every day.
So Raidou is as strong as the Demi-Fiend and Nahobino, right?
It's much better than IV
At least it doesn't have IV's disgusting demon designs. Doi leaves a lot to be desired, and a large chunk of his demons are just "cute human girls" not that I'm complaining, but anything he makes his better than the ugly shit in 4.
The only demons in SMT5 that are "cute humans girls" are demons who were always "cute human girls"
I mean he did design Cleopatra, Idun, Demeter, Nuwa and Artemis.
Idun, Demeter and Nuwa are new to the series. Cleopatra was in the fourth game
As far Artemis..... well this is her first deign in the series
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/a/a5/Artemis_KMTII.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200707190852
Point is a lot of the demons that Doi is assigned to draw kind of fall under a handful of specific categories. I can't say his more monstrous designs are all that good either though. Like his Satan.
I like his Loup-garou
Shame his signature move scales off Magic when his Magic stat's so fricking low. You need to shove a ton of incense onto him to make it work. It's kinda dumb, and honestly not really worth it. Which is funny because it's also the strongest elec spell in the game.
SMT5 needed more varied environments. Four of the seven main locations are just city ruins.
City Ruins are the best locations though. Both design wise but even aesthetically they feel different, first area is a true desert with great dunes and sweeping valleys, second area is a city sinking into a quagmire with a hidden untouched forest spring, third area is a war zone divided into two layers with fog of war on the lower levels, third area is a big open tundra divided into three seperate zones controlled by the respective Bethel heads.
Compared to that school, hell castle and heaven temple are boring designs, like the less inspired Nocturne dungeons.
How do you guys feel about Mecha-Lucy?
I really like it on many levels, the fact he's a machine angel like the Law upper brass is a nice touch and him using both YHVH and DF's attacks is cool.
I'm just wondering why he doesn't have feet. Sure angels don't tend to walk much, but every other angel has feet.
Ironically stands on the ground more as Mecha Lucifer than as normal Lucifer that actually has feet but never walks.
I think Doi might have taken too much from Soejima. Soejima's Persona designs tend to not have normal feet, but I think that approach tends to work better for Personas than demons.
>SMTVgays
yikes
>IV
Cute girlfriend that travels with you that isn’t annoying
>V
troony toaster fujo bait that gets annoying after 5 minutes
Imagine a Demi-Fiend/Nahobino dual boss.
big gay sex
It lived up in terms of gameplay, but fell short with the story and implementation of the alignments. I did not feel like much of what I decided mattered in the end and that’s not a great feeling for SMT.
They've always had a hard time with alignments. The fundamental flaw with the alignment systems is that just because you behave a certain way throughout the game does not necessarily mean that you would choose to ultimately side with those whom your choices might represent. SMT5 is actually a good example of this; most Law-associated choices tend to be about helping others, being kind and generally not being a dick, while most Chaos-associated choices are just you being a dick. And that's sort of an issue; for anyone who isn't aware of what these choices actually affect, they might end up being Law-aligned in the profile but end up choosing Chaos instead. If you choose a path that doesn't match your alignment, then you don't get the special Miracle associated with that path, AND you have to pay exorbitant fees just to do a certain quest.
Making choices actually matter can potentially end up reducing the player's agency. What if you make a bunch of Chaos-aligned choices throughout the game but don't actually want to side with the forces of Chaos?
>What if you make a bunch of Chaos-aligned choices throughout the game but don't actually want to side with the forces of Chaos?
Sounds like a casual filter, what's the problem?
No, SMTIV's music was better.
I prefer V's OST
>VBlack folk
the knowledge of all Vtrannies
I like SMT5. I like it less than SMT3 and Strange Journey, but it's fine. Kind of unfinished. Kinda short. Probably has the absolute worst fricking skill descriptions in the entire goddamn franchise, holy fricking shit.
Case in point:
>Freikugel: "Severe" damage with +20% crit rate
>Sakanagi: "Medium" damage
>Both Freikugel and Sakagani have the same base power of 230
That's every SMT game, the weak, medium, heavy severe descriptors are all always total horseshit
It runs like total dogshit but what's new in this series. Outside of that, it's damn good and I'm impressed they made something competent given how hushed they were about for some time.
Tao is the dumbest shit.
>You can save her in the Compendium but you can't actually summon her.
Can't this b***h fricking do ANYTHING right? I wish her friend joined my party instead. Or the glasses girl. Either one of them would be better than Tao. Even if both of them suck, at least they're not Tao.
They couldn't let Tao have too much importance because it would threaten the Nahobino x Aogami shippers
The worst thing is that Tao has a better version of Idun's Golden Apple that also costs less. But since you can't actually summon her from the Compendium, it's not worth really using her.
You can use Tao for everything in the game except for the final boss, including Shiva and Demifiend. Just proper her up with grimoires and healing sutras and she's still the best healer type other than maybe Demeter.
I'm not wasting sutras on someone I can't summon from the Compendium.
HIJIRI = ALEPH THE GREAT WILL = THE AXIOM ONE MORE GOD REJECTED TDE IS CANON
Hijiri isn't Aleph. That was some headcanon made up by one of the localizers that everyone started spewing as fact.
cope
Nocturne >> V >> SJ >>> IV:A > IV
SJ>V>Nocturne>IVA>IV
SJ>IV>nocturne>>>>V.
objective ranking
SJ > Nocturne >> IV > IV:A >> V
the story was shit, but V might be my favorite game in every other aspect
>Gameplay
III > V >IV
>Story
IV > III > V
>Characters
V > IV > III
>Music
V > III > IV
>Replayability
V > IV > III
>Graphics
V > IV > III
>Level up SFX
IV > V > III
>Colours
III > V > IV
>Start Menu
IV > III> V
>Gameplay
IV > III > V
>Credits
V > IV > III
nice selfie
It's way better balanced than most games in the series. Between this and P5, they really might be starting to improve.
i play the IV boss theme over the boss music in V