>Done
They still have to release the chorfs and they've got another two years of DLC in them atleast.
The better question is who's fricking bright idea was it to release no patches from November 2022 until MARCH 2023?
>march
Lol, lmao you are one funny optimistic fella. Q2 means June and in June they will show trailer for dlc only to release it one month later. Tbh I'd be surprised to see any dlc actually coming out.
https://i.imgur.com/Tx0Ete6.png
What will happen to it now?
Possibly, three kingdoms scenario, SEGA forced them to work on some shitty crossover of fortnite and call of duty cause CA is the only capable studio to create FPS in their possession.
>who's fricking bright idea was it to release no patches from November 2022 until MARCH 2023?
lazy office workers need 4 months off from doing nothing all day, please understand
it will continue its slow decline into a game with less focus on tactics, strategy and management and into a sandbox of running units with cool grafix into eachother.
>some new unannounced mainline title that I hope is Mughal/gunpowder empires focused.
No, it'll be some setting where they can force in cringe fantasy hero bullshit. They'll never again make a pure historical title.
who knows, I see the upcoming 3k 2 game they're making as the successor to warhammer fantasy (or maybe that sofia studio will make another tw spinoff game like troy). I think they definitely will do a historical tw at some point soon but it might be a Medieval 3 or Empire 2.
>I see the upcoming 3k 2 game they're making as the successor to warhammer fantasy
Yes, that's my point. Even the supposed "historical" settings like Three Kingdoms (granted, this was heavily fictionised in Chinese mythology) are subverted and twisted to fit the style of the Warhammer fantasy games. >I think they definitely will do a historical tw at some point soon but it might be a Medieval 3 or Empire 2.
lmao yeah, we've been hoping for this for over a decade now and fricking nothing.
The last true historical title we got was Thrones of Britannia in 2018, a game I loved but the normies that only want fantasy games hated it, and CA were put off by how low the sales were so they doubled-down on the fantasy games.
>Even the supposed "historical" settings like Three Kingdoms (granted, this was heavily fictionised in Chinese mythology) are subverted and twisted to fit the style of the Warhammer fantasy games.
I mean so far it's just that one game, i'm not going to be totally rosy about the future but I think 3k is a special circumstance, ca clearly thinks they can spin it off into another franchise, maybe they're handing it to the sofia studio who haven't done anything since that troy expansion. That doesn't mean they can't or won't do another historical game, they've done multiple projects before (like warhammer 3 and 3k being developed at the same time). >lmao yeah, we've been hoping for this for over a decade now and fricking nothing.
The last true historical title we got was Thrones of Britannia in 2018
I mean I am also more positive on britannia than most people, I really liked the ideas it was going for, but it was an experimental side game that had some issues sadly. The reason we haven't gotten any historical games aside from 3k is because of ca focusing on warhammer since 2016, now that's over and off to the dlc team and they don't have to make some historical games on the side like britannia and troy (which is psuedo-historical I will admit, but still attempting something closer to historical). At the very least the rome remaster sold well, I think that alone might hint at what ca might do next for a new flagship game, there's still clear interest in the older games and their setting.
Troy was a blatant attempt at inserting fantasy shit into a quasi-hiistoriical setting, what the hell are you talking about? The """historical'"" mode is barebones and lazy, all the effort went into the fantasy shit.
Here's what we've gotten since Thrones of Britannia >three kingdoms (pretty good for the most part in terms of being historical, but too much cartoonish shit still) >warhammer 3 (obviously a full fantasy game) >troy (basically as fantasy as you can get while still *technically* having a "historical" setting)
I am not optimistic
1 year ago
Anonymous
yeah we've had three games since thrones of britannia, one a side game which only launched with the "truth behind the myth" mode (which, I never said was good, and yes had hero units but they did try to do the sometimes misguided attempts at historical reality like making the siege of troy done through earthquake), the full fantasy stuff was added in a paid expansion over a year later. It's a half step between fantasy and historical, and was marketed as such. Again I'm not a fan of troy, but if they really wanted to capitalize on fantasy they would have just done the full on fantasy expansion shit first and not bothered with the whole truth behind the legend spiel they were going on about pre-release.
As for what we've gotten since thrones of britannia, again it is side stuff aside from 3k which is going to get a sequel and probably just become its own thing in the way total war sagas was supposed to be its own thing. Their main focus since 2016 was clearly warhammer and that is done now, the main team is working on something according to those nvidia database leaks and I just don't think it's totally impossible that it would be another historical game. Who knows maybe it is something dumb like total warhammer 40k but I can just as easily see medieval 3 or shogun 3 or even a new historical setting.
What has changed in total war's combat? How is a unit of spear fighting another unit of spears in Shogun 2 different from a unit of spears fighting another unit in spears in Rome or Warhammer?
In Rome 1, at least, every single individual man in a 'unit' has it's own armor, attack value, health, etc, as well as it's own clipping/bounding. In Warhammer, the unit is itself an individual man with armor, attack value, health etc, that is modelled and animated to look like many men.
Does that make sense.
The only two that matter for individual units, HP and clipping, are tied to the models themselves. If you had actually played the game, you would know that.
Ok my bad the special units in warhammer have sync kills, but to my memory shogun 2 it was all units, or at least you had stuff like regular troops like katana samurai and yari ashigaru having sync kills. That is a bit of a different use case, it's not like you have spear units in warhammer doing it.
Matched combat looks like shit. Having two people stab each other while their comrades next to them just stand around and watch is always uncanny.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The problem with what you ask is simple, there are dozens if not hundreds of *skeletons* now imagine how bloated would be already bloated TWWH 3 with additional executions/ sync fights between every *skeleton*. Shit load of work, problems with optimization and tonnes of additional gigabytes of space required for the game and remember TWWH3 is already forsaken project.
I mean it does through a mod, not natively. It's nice that it's there but that's not really what people mean when they talk about game features, I wouldn't call skyrim a soulslike because I modded in dark souls combat.
What's changed is that battles are now insanely fast-paced and usually over in a couple of minutes at most.
There is mod for this too.
In Rome 1, at least, every single individual man in a 'unit' has it's own armor, attack value, health, etc, as well as it's own clipping/bounding. In Warhammer, the unit is itself an individual man with armor, attack value, health etc, that is modelled and animated to look like many men.
Does that make sense.
There were some poor attempts to change that but it just didn't work out I think.
CA provided skeleton, a solid one I'd say after few dlcs but warhammer gets good only with mods.
In Rome 1, at least, every single individual man in a 'unit' has it's own armor, attack value, health, etc, as well as it's own clipping/bounding. In Warhammer, the unit is itself an individual man with armor, attack value, health etc, that is modelled and animated to look like many men.
Does that make sense.
I see why a lot of people wouldn't like that but they probably did that for the sake of optimization and performance. Can you imagine games looking the way they are having individual stats for every unit in formation? The CPU strain would be insane.
>Can you imagine games looking the way they are having individual stats for every unit in formation? The CPU strain would be insane.
Yet CPUs from the mid-2000s could handle it without any issue.
It effects it a ton of ways, especially regarding formations and unit coherency as well as the whole archery thing people always mention, but it's 3:15 am and I'm sure someone on /vst/ can answer better than I right noe.
Matched combat doesn't allow more than 1 unit to hitroll another unit at a time so basically it limits the impact of larger-sized units and it also makes charging less impactful and it also causes units to effectively stick to each other (because units are locked in sync'd animations) rather than a more organic maneuver like if you charge in my pic related. Also since they target men but the effective center of a unit is causes real fricky pathing if when you're trying to attack or chase down units that fleeing. And because it requires proximity to the center of the unit to engage in combat and has to be able to start sync kills your men will just run past enemy men because they are unable to engage synced combat while moving and/or your unit isn't close enough to the center of the other unit. It also means that status effects afflict your entire unit if one man gets hit so apply on hit on effects and radius buffs/debuffs are very potent. And because cavalry and chariots and large units want to lock into synced combat it means we'll never get proper cavalry that charge through a unit and circle back around.
Not true. Every man of any unit in warhammer has it's own healthpool, can individually acquire targets, and can individually be struck by missiles and aoe's.
How is this post wrong? Units have health bars and what individuals are doing doesn't matter, you can watch one guy get surrounded by enemies and last out until the enemy routes because his unit's hp wasn't low enough for many people to start dying
This is wrong you idiot. The HP is the sum total of all the models HP. Each model's HP is still tracked separately. Rome 2 and every other game is the same.
he is not wrong tho, not right exactly
each soldier was individual unit that stats based on their facing >attacked from back - no skill or shield count >could face and be attacked by few enemy units at once
also had single HP most of the time not a multiple one - so if his defense skill and then armor roll failed he would simply die and there were no situations like in new TW where units tank few salvos to the face and then start dropping dead
in shogun 2, you got multiple different spear units with different roles and capability.
the ashigaru peasant mfs are weakest, but they hold the line with yari wall formation
yari samurai is for intercepting cav, they have highest anti cav values and sprinting ability
naginata samurai is jack of trade spear unit, but they are also heavily armored to tank missiles
Naginata monks are strong fighters and can be used to break weaker units as shock troops with warcry ability
now compare that to warhammer shit? no formation, units are HP sinks for missiles, spear, sword dont mean shit, but hey, multiple races!
Shogun 2 spearmen have bullshit spear wall ability that allows them to defeat units tier higher.
So in yari samurai vs yari ashigaru, defending side always wins.
In warhammer spearmen are only good against cavalry and monsters (and sometimes armour) but there's a lot of nuance when it comes to campaign, different factions, races and stuff like that.
Imo it's pretty incorrect to compare them and total war warhammer takes a lot from heroes of might and magic and disciples.
They need to invest in people who can make them a new engine from the ground up and know how to actually program it. One of their biggest problems is they still cling to an older engine and just keep rejigging and bootstrapping shit onto it. And to make matters worse whoever actually made the original engine is clearly long gone so any new problems they encounter with it is difficult for them to fix. They also need to yeet the current main team management since they are responsible for fricking things up bad and put the DLC team management in charge since they seem to be the only ones that know what they are doing when it comes to game design.
I don't believe you, this is a way too ridiculous amount of money for something that isn't a guaranteed sell. For frick's sake, something like Destiny had what, 500m planned to go into it over the course of several years?
Not when Third Age TW exists. There's a precedent for how it should be done.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That was a mod, not the actual game made by the devs
1 year ago
Anonymous
Third age is ok, especially for a mod. The unit models are well done and it has a good atmosphere but alot of gameplay elements are just lacking. Like the AI spamming armies literally out of nowhere, or the sieges being broken simply because it's built on medieval 2.
The goretide bloodhost of khorne the god of blood valiant fights against the lightning host of sigmar, the stormhost legions who ride atop Draconith's that they saved from the wrath of the dread Kragnos, the earthbreaker.
Of course the mighty Orruk ironjaws seek to disrupt the conflict while he loathsome kruleboyz wait in the shadows. Also there are some duradin in steampunk tophats.
That’s been plagiarized from other sources no less. I wonder when GW will sue the Tolkien estate for stealing all their totally original ideas.
Friendly reminder that the Tolkien estate wanted to copyright the terms >dragon >Dwarf >Elf >Goblin >Orc >Ent >Hobbit >Balrog >Warg
And actually sued D&D for using those terms.
But they lost, and as a result all those terms except for Hobbit, Ent and Balrog are now public domain.
Just FYI next time someone complains about Warhammer "stealing" from Tolkien and GW rather using copyrightable terms for safety.
It's been improving since Soul Wars and Broken Realms was enjoyable during the first half, but second half of Broken Realms dropped the bool and current focus on beast is kinda boring compared to undead. On positive note the focus on places like Ghur at very least gave us some nice theme'd sculpts from Warcry and Underworlds.
Same quality as warhammer fantasy really, it's just had less time to develop.
said.
By now it's quite literally the same as WHFB in terms of nuts and bolts. You want small human towns in the shadows of vampire haunted castles and dark forests? Got it.
The fundamental difference of course is that AoS is mythological setting, as opposed to WHFB being a "historical" fantasy setting, thus, lots of mythological shit happens in the lore and official events. And of course Sigmarines.
But if you want to ignore that, the current setting has everything WHFB had.
Oh and
The goretide bloodhost of khorne the god of blood valiant fights against the lightning host of sigmar, the stormhost legions who ride atop Draconith's that they saved from the wrath of the dread Kragnos, the earthbreaker.
the copyright shit is still a thing obviously, but not as forced as memes make it seem.
tl,Dr - it's gotten a lot better after the 1st ED tried to push "buzzwords: the fight, the location, the army!". People pushed back and GW actually toned shit down significantly.
>The copyright stuff is exactly as bad as people say. No elves and orcs here, only aelves and orruks.
One of them is literally just a different spelling with the same sound, and the other is just pronounced slightly differently.
It's not even close to anything with an impact big enough to be mad about.
Don't blame GW for realising that it's probably not a good idea to run a multi million dollar franchise on borrowed/open source terms.
When your financial advisor asks you what of this you actually own, and your only response is head scratching and pointing at a rat with a minigun, then you probably should rethink things.
Is it more soulless? Yes. I prefer basic b***h dwarves and elves. But is it big enough a thing to be upset over? No.
Open source wouldn't be a problem if they were at least the leader. Tolkien, Blizzard and WotC dab on them when it comes to searching for the race names. Warcraft is especially bad, because they were literally offbrand Warhammer games that compleatly stole GW's place in popculture in 2000s
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yeah I don't buy the necessity argument for a second when their major competitors never pulled some bullshit like this. Just copyright your setting's version of a mind flayer and a displacer beast and call it a day.
>shamelessly rip off Tolkien and Moorwiener >Oh no we need to change the names of all our factions so we can copyright them and stop people from doing the same thing to us
Depends what you're looking for. Best Undead in GW, Chaos dynamics did 180 with good guys being the lurking force slowly conquaring the Chaos world and Might and Magic tier tech mesh up where robots and aliens coexist with guys armed with spears
The only way I could see them pulling it off is if they have a big meta map like TW games on a planet, a hiveworld maybe, and you build regiments with attachments of like, a space marine company helping guard or something. The company is designed beforehand like Wargame or Steel Division, and when you get into combat you control your units like that. A 40k game like Wargame would be fun, but it wouldn't be Total War.
from a shogun 2 perspective:
archers in front with spear sword mix behind them
flanks tipped with spears (yari sams) specifically for anti cav and can be used to charge enemy line from behind if not needed for anti cav
all cav on one of the flanks
works in multiplayer too, if they have a ton of cav you just box up with the flanking spears and use your cav for counter charging their cav.
They'll shit out a few games that are 1:1 copies of Warhammer 3, which no one will play because they won't fix any of the core problems that the game had, and will eventually find another massive IP to leech off of because the fans from that other IP are starved of content and will buy literally anything that has it's name in it. That's what happened after Rome 2.
Which Tolkien? Because John Tolkien has been dead for 50 years, and Christopher died fairly recently. Pretty sure it's Middle-earth Enterprises that actually licenses rights necessary for videogames.
Tolkien Estate still owns The Silmarillion while LotR and Hobbit was sold to swedish gaming company...? That is why we see so many shitty mobile games based on LotR characters.
there are conversion mods which are mostly good but medieval 1s verson has a few meme maps that will make you want to want to auto resolve every battle in certain settings.
>would be hard to license.
just make it in Australia
in Australia, Lord of the Rings isnt locked behind copyright anymore because its over 80 years old.
literally no legal team could touch you
How can corporate be so stupid? Warhammer fanboys were begging for DLC to buy. Begging.
Imagine you have a captive market pleading with you for a way to give you their money.
Unbelievable.
Dunno, ask Relic why did they frick up with DoW3 or any American movie companies why they can't stop fking up whole industry. Poor management, greed and following trends on social medias
They'll release some more WH3 DLCs but the main thing is 40k. It's inevitable and no amount of historygay crying will prevent it. There's a good chance it'll be ass.
Inbetween then there will be some more throwaway history titles.
I love both Total War with Medieval 2 TW being my favorite, and Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are fricking awesome (AoS has a few gems, but they’re buried under a mile of shit sadly). So I see nothing wrong in CA churning out Warhammer Total Wars so long as we still get some dedicated historical ones as well, I for one would kill for Medieval 3 and Rome 3 TW that actually covers the whole world, or at least Western Europe to Japan.
Why the frick hasn't somebody just made a spiritual successor to Total War yet?
CA has been dogshit ever since the engine change in Empire, so why can't another studio just do historical battling that actually feels decent? The closest is Paradox shit and that's just map autism.
Because making a Total War clone from the ground up would be an extremely long and expensive project? It isn't anywhere near as simple to clone as, well, practically anything else.
i played all of those on the list, didnt play three kingdoms and brittania tho, so they are not on the list
i played rome 2 like 3 years of its release so i never knew the bug criticism, and Atilla was worth the praise, much better, felt like playing in a world facing apocalypse
ME2TW is and probably will forever be #1, only young zoomers can’t seem to get into it due to the outdated graphics, but even then all of them I’ve talked to have admitted that they wish they could play it since it’s mod community is killer. ME2TW + Dawn of War Soulstorm + Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines are my most played games, and it’s all thanks to mods adding so much to them.
The rest- Shogun 2, Rome(1), Atilla, Rome 2, Warhammer (this would be way higher if it could be modded properly, still the modders have worked magic, I’ll give them that), Troy, Empire, etc…
Pic is Chorf “LL” in the Warhammer (Beginning of the End Times) mod for ME2TW.
Rome 1 is almost as janky as Med 2. The TW2 games were good for the time but are only playable now because of mods, otherwise they'd be complete shit tier.
>working pikes >tell pikes to slightly alter facing direction or width >unit congeals into a ball, spins around, then repositions because the pathfinding can't handle the largest sizes >tell them to attack >the spin around and end up driving their flank into the enemy
Just because they weren't as buggy as vanilla Med 2 pikes doesn't mean they weren't trash. Wasn't until Shogun 2 that we got a fully functioning spear wall again (the previous game being Med 1).
M1 is incredibly underrated. In terms of battle mechanics especially I think it's the peak of simulation, aesthetically it shits all over M2, and the AI can actually handle the risk map.
The games turned away from simulation at some point and now just play like arcade abstractions, I don't find them appealing at all.
I swear, M1 was peak campaign simply because it was a Risk-style board with clear cut shit. Adding variable movement points disrupted the entire dynamic.
>AI is actually capable of doomstacking in Med 1 because of the risk board
The horror of seeing the Saracens stack 6+ banners on your boarder. How long did it take CA to get a campaign AI that could maintain effective stacks on the 3D maps? I could in S2 but that's because of the geography. I think it was Attila when it worked out how to consistently doomstack. I know it can do it 3K.
both shogun 1 and med 1 could have absolutely massive battles with dozens waves of enemy reinforcements
still remember some of it
and yeah risk style map was really helpful for the AI and for performance
>What will happen to it now?
Put on the shelf by SEGA after they disband CA following Hyenas' catastrophic failure, then given to some no-name company a few years from now to churn out mobile shit.
>rebranding fall of the samurai as a saga title was scummy.
Kek, thanks for that post, this thread made me want to frick around in Shogun 2 for a bit and I was wondering why the frick FOTS is gone. fricking CA Black folk.
>Hyenas dies >SEGA desperately look for any life line >total war exists >put every ounce of effort into TW as its the only thing they have that still makes money >CA B Team gets fired
I think we're gonna be alright.
They really should make Pike and Musket game. Gunpowder Empires.
From Americas to Nippon
plenty of unique factions with different rosters, plenty of meme units that you could hype in trailers
Perfect period
Modern CA haven't been able to figure out how to simulate formations for like 5 games now and you want them to attempt pike & shot? lol. Face it, CA's MO is now to make the absolute most basic RTS battle mechanics but without buildings, slap a themed skin on it and then add on a tacky 'campaign' layer with abstract tokeneized resouces like 'food' points.
>pike and shot in real life >groups of musketeers and pikemen acting as one >pike and shot TW >one line of muskets in front of one line of pikes >OR >one line of pikes with gaps in them in front of one line of muskets with gaps in them
It's very good, although I think it has some fundamental engine issue (eg gate forts not working properly because of the how the engine handles zones of control). I'm kind of hopeful for whatever that team is working on because they did good with the game (bugs and CA's deadlines not withstanding). But if they still going to be beholden to the same engine I don't know what more they can do.
Not my favorite but it was actually pretty good. With mods, like the ones that include characters from the novel, if you are a 3k fan, it might be one of the best.
Mine too, the campaign gameplay anyway. The diplomacy, spy and population mechanics are pretty great.
Attila was my favorite for the campaign for the longest time but I think 3K outdoes it.
The campaign mechanics were the best of a modern total war game. I'd like to see the army being split between multiple generals return too, there's a lot of potential in that mechanic.
Total warhamer 40k
In reality 40k would never work in the total war engine, and I dream of the day Eugene systems gets the license , a 40k RTS in the style of red dragon or steel divison would be absolutely kino. The deployment system already even works the same as the tabletop game
Total Race War
Aren't they still pandering to the Chinese markets by making more Three Kingdoms shit?
i wish
So what are they doing now, then? I thought that they were shifting full focus onto more chinkshit now that Warhammer was done.
>Done
They still have to release the chorfs and they've got another two years of DLC in them atleast.
The better question is who's fricking bright idea was it to release no patches from November 2022 until MARCH 2023?
>march
Lol, lmao you are one funny optimistic fella. Q2 means June and in June they will show trailer for dlc only to release it one month later. Tbh I'd be surprised to see any dlc actually coming out.
Possibly, three kingdoms scenario, SEGA forced them to work on some shitty crossover of fortnite and call of duty cause CA is the only capable studio to create FPS in their possession.
>who's fricking bright idea was it to release no patches from November 2022 until MARCH 2023?
lazy office workers need 4 months off from doing nothing all day, please understand
>they've got another two years of DLC in them atleast
So Chorfs this year and a random lord DLC next year and then "Moving on from Warhammer" video.
By that time after release, Total Warhammer 2 already had several dlcs and patches
Unless they changed their mind recently and went back to it then no, they cut support for it a while ago
They have Hyenas but it doesn't seem they're doing anything else, I'm worried they're going #JOINTHEACK and kill the series for good
Just got off the phone with SEGA. They are looking into Total War: Sonic Forces
Who cares? Everything after Shogun 2 should rightfully be ignored.
Atilla was alright and Divide et Impera salvaged Rome 2
it will continue its slow decline into a game with less focus on tactics, strategy and management and into a sandbox of running units with cool grafix into eachother.
CA will never make good historical Total War games ever again, this is a fact I accepted years ago.
Three kingdoms 2, more warhammer dlc for at least a couple years, some new unannounced mainline title that I hope is Mughal/gunpowder empires focused.
>some new unannounced mainline title that I hope is Mughal/gunpowder empires focused.
No, it'll be some setting where they can force in cringe fantasy hero bullshit. They'll never again make a pure historical title.
who knows, I see the upcoming 3k 2 game they're making as the successor to warhammer fantasy (or maybe that sofia studio will make another tw spinoff game like troy). I think they definitely will do a historical tw at some point soon but it might be a Medieval 3 or Empire 2.
>I see the upcoming 3k 2 game they're making as the successor to warhammer fantasy
Yes, that's my point. Even the supposed "historical" settings like Three Kingdoms (granted, this was heavily fictionised in Chinese mythology) are subverted and twisted to fit the style of the Warhammer fantasy games.
>I think they definitely will do a historical tw at some point soon but it might be a Medieval 3 or Empire 2.
lmao yeah, we've been hoping for this for over a decade now and fricking nothing.
The last true historical title we got was Thrones of Britannia in 2018, a game I loved but the normies that only want fantasy games hated it, and CA were put off by how low the sales were so they doubled-down on the fantasy games.
>Even the supposed "historical" settings like Three Kingdoms (granted, this was heavily fictionised in Chinese mythology) are subverted and twisted to fit the style of the Warhammer fantasy games.
I mean so far it's just that one game, i'm not going to be totally rosy about the future but I think 3k is a special circumstance, ca clearly thinks they can spin it off into another franchise, maybe they're handing it to the sofia studio who haven't done anything since that troy expansion. That doesn't mean they can't or won't do another historical game, they've done multiple projects before (like warhammer 3 and 3k being developed at the same time).
>lmao yeah, we've been hoping for this for over a decade now and fricking nothing.
The last true historical title we got was Thrones of Britannia in 2018
I mean I am also more positive on britannia than most people, I really liked the ideas it was going for, but it was an experimental side game that had some issues sadly. The reason we haven't gotten any historical games aside from 3k is because of ca focusing on warhammer since 2016, now that's over and off to the dlc team and they don't have to make some historical games on the side like britannia and troy (which is psuedo-historical I will admit, but still attempting something closer to historical). At the very least the rome remaster sold well, I think that alone might hint at what ca might do next for a new flagship game, there's still clear interest in the older games and their setting.
Troy was a blatant attempt at inserting fantasy shit into a quasi-hiistoriical setting, what the hell are you talking about? The """historical'"" mode is barebones and lazy, all the effort went into the fantasy shit.
Here's what we've gotten since Thrones of Britannia
>three kingdoms (pretty good for the most part in terms of being historical, but too much cartoonish shit still)
>warhammer 3 (obviously a full fantasy game)
>troy (basically as fantasy as you can get while still *technically* having a "historical" setting)
I am not optimistic
yeah we've had three games since thrones of britannia, one a side game which only launched with the "truth behind the myth" mode (which, I never said was good, and yes had hero units but they did try to do the sometimes misguided attempts at historical reality like making the siege of troy done through earthquake), the full fantasy stuff was added in a paid expansion over a year later. It's a half step between fantasy and historical, and was marketed as such. Again I'm not a fan of troy, but if they really wanted to capitalize on fantasy they would have just done the full on fantasy expansion shit first and not bothered with the whole truth behind the legend spiel they were going on about pre-release.
As for what we've gotten since thrones of britannia, again it is side stuff aside from 3k which is going to get a sequel and probably just become its own thing in the way total war sagas was supposed to be its own thing. Their main focus since 2016 was clearly warhammer and that is done now, the main team is working on something according to those nvidia database leaks and I just don't think it's totally impossible that it would be another historical game. Who knows maybe it is something dumb like total warhammer 40k but I can just as easily see medieval 3 or shogun 3 or even a new historical setting.
What has changed in total war's combat? How is a unit of spear fighting another unit of spears in Shogun 2 different from a unit of spears fighting another unit in spears in Rome or Warhammer?
Shogun 2 had sync kills (ie individual soldiers have matched up animations). I forget if Rome 2 has it but warhammer definitely does not.
Why lie on the internet?
The only two that matter for individual units, HP and clipping, are tied to the models themselves. If you had actually played the game, you would know that.
Ok my bad the special units in warhammer have sync kills, but to my memory shogun 2 it was all units, or at least you had stuff like regular troops like katana samurai and yari ashigaru having sync kills. That is a bit of a different use case, it's not like you have spear units in warhammer doing it.
And it does now. There is mod called *matched combat*
Matched combat looks like shit. Having two people stab each other while their comrades next to them just stand around and watch is always uncanny.
The problem with what you ask is simple, there are dozens if not hundreds of *skeletons* now imagine how bloated would be already bloated TWWH 3 with additional executions/ sync fights between every *skeleton*. Shit load of work, problems with optimization and tonnes of additional gigabytes of space required for the game and remember TWWH3 is already forsaken project.
I mean it does through a mod, not natively. It's nice that it's there but that's not really what people mean when they talk about game features, I wouldn't call skyrim a soulslike because I modded in dark souls combat.
synced kills used to cause all manners of weirdness back in the day
There is a mod for it in TWWH and it works well.
There is mod for this too.
There were some poor attempts to change that but it just didn't work out I think.
CA provided skeleton, a solid one I'd say after few dlcs but warhammer gets good only with mods.
What's changed is that battles are now insanely fast-paced and usually over in a couple of minutes at most.
In Rome 1, at least, every single individual man in a 'unit' has it's own armor, attack value, health, etc, as well as it's own clipping/bounding. In Warhammer, the unit is itself an individual man with armor, attack value, health etc, that is modelled and animated to look like many men.
Does that make sense.
I see why a lot of people wouldn't like that but they probably did that for the sake of optimization and performance. Can you imagine games looking the way they are having individual stats for every unit in formation? The CPU strain would be insane.
>Can you imagine games looking the way they are having individual stats for every unit in formation? The CPU strain would be insane.
Yet CPUs from the mid-2000s could handle it without any issue.
Somehow P4's could handle Rome 1 without issues.
But how does that effect gameplay at all?
It effects it a ton of ways, especially regarding formations and unit coherency as well as the whole archery thing people always mention, but it's 3:15 am and I'm sure someone on /vst/ can answer better than I right noe.
Ok, night anon, love you
Matched combat doesn't allow more than 1 unit to hitroll another unit at a time so basically it limits the impact of larger-sized units and it also makes charging less impactful and it also causes units to effectively stick to each other (because units are locked in sync'd animations) rather than a more organic maneuver like if you charge in my pic related. Also since they target men but the effective center of a unit is causes real fricky pathing if when you're trying to attack or chase down units that fleeing. And because it requires proximity to the center of the unit to engage in combat and has to be able to start sync kills your men will just run past enemy men because they are unable to engage synced combat while moving and/or your unit isn't close enough to the center of the other unit. It also means that status effects afflict your entire unit if one man gets hit so apply on hit on effects and radius buffs/debuffs are very potent. And because cavalry and chariots and large units want to lock into synced combat it means we'll never get proper cavalry that charge through a unit and circle back around.
It's effect is mostly overstated.
>stat-bonuses instead of physicial-based simulation
Miss me with that shit, try to play a board game instead.
Not true. Every man of any unit in warhammer has it's own healthpool, can individually acquire targets, and can individually be struck by missiles and aoe's.
So confident, and yet so wrong.
How is this post wrong? Units have health bars and what individuals are doing doesn't matter, you can watch one guy get surrounded by enemies and last out until the enemy routes because his unit's hp wasn't low enough for many people to start dying
This is wrong you idiot. The HP is the sum total of all the models HP. Each model's HP is still tracked separately. Rome 2 and every other game is the same.
You’re right in one thing, ever since Rome 2 it’s been the exact same game.
Nah 3K is quite different. Anyway, Shogun 2 is the best total war and it had sync animations so I guess it's a non issue.
what utter nonsense.
literally not one point you are making is anywhere close to being factual.
>least malding warscapegay
he is not wrong tho, not right exactly
each soldier was individual unit that stats based on their facing
>attacked from back - no skill or shield count
>could face and be attacked by few enemy units at once
also had single HP most of the time not a multiple one - so if his defense skill and then armor roll failed he would simply die and there were no situations like in new TW where units tank few salvos to the face and then start dropping dead
in shogun 2, you got multiple different spear units with different roles and capability.
the ashigaru peasant mfs are weakest, but they hold the line with yari wall formation
yari samurai is for intercepting cav, they have highest anti cav values and sprinting ability
naginata samurai is jack of trade spear unit, but they are also heavily armored to tank missiles
Naginata monks are strong fighters and can be used to break weaker units as shock troops with warcry ability
now compare that to warhammer shit? no formation, units are HP sinks for missiles, spear, sword dont mean shit, but hey, multiple races!
B-but FOR THE EMPOROR! HAHA *shits pants aggressively*
Shogun 2 spearmen have bullshit spear wall ability that allows them to defeat units tier higher.
So in yari samurai vs yari ashigaru, defending side always wins.
In warhammer spearmen are only good against cavalry and monsters (and sometimes armour) but there's a lot of nuance when it comes to campaign, different factions, races and stuff like that.
Imo it's pretty incorrect to compare them and total war warhammer takes a lot from heroes of might and magic and disciples.
Company of Heroes 3 is supposed to be a Total War campaign map x CoH battles
So really it could be seen as a Total War WW2
they are shit
best TW are
Medieval 1 Shogun 1 and Rome 1
They need to invest in people who can make them a new engine from the ground up and know how to actually program it. One of their biggest problems is they still cling to an older engine and just keep rejigging and bootstrapping shit onto it. And to make matters worse whoever actually made the original engine is clearly long gone so any new problems they encounter with it is difficult for them to fix. They also need to yeet the current main team management since they are responsible for fricking things up bad and put the DLC team management in charge since they seem to be the only ones that know what they are doing when it comes to game design.
Fantasois
Hisochuds
Your time is over
#jointhepack
or else.
What the frick is that?
CA's newest game that's going to blow the F*CK out of total war, chud.
Sega set aside $1b for this game btw.
Yeah, that sounds like a sega decision.
I don't believe you, this is a way too ridiculous amount of money for something that isn't a guaranteed sell. For frick's sake, something like Destiny had what, 500m planned to go into it over the course of several years?
Reason why we may never see any new total war game/dlc or even update
>.t rich prick
Anything but that. Please. They have cooperation with GW, they could do a LOTR Total War since GW does a LOTR tabletop wargame.
Meant for:
I don't want shitmar.
If they did a total war LOTR game it would be a yassssss qween black dwarfs ring of power game.
Not when Third Age TW exists. There's a precedent for how it should be done.
That was a mod, not the actual game made by the devs
Third age is ok, especially for a mod. The unit models are well done and it has a good atmosphere but alot of gameplay elements are just lacking. Like the AI spamming armies literally out of nowhere, or the sieges being broken simply because it's built on medieval 2.
Yeah, wait for *warhammer the old world*, I'm pretty sure that GW will make empire multicultural shithole like London or another New York
You WILL steal funko pops from the rich pricks and you WILL be happy
>COME ORBIT MY TAINT, CHUDS
>LET'S EMPTY SOME CLIPS
The inevitable shitstorm and damage control will be glorious.
Say something nice about the game that will irrevocably kill CA.
Thanks for finally pulling the trigger but it should have happened a long time ago. Specifically right before Rome 2 was announced.
They couldn't have made a worse looking game if they tried, wtf.
Soon bros
Is this setting actually good?
The goretide bloodhost of khorne the god of blood valiant fights against the lightning host of sigmar, the stormhost legions who ride atop Draconith's that they saved from the wrath of the dread Kragnos, the earthbreaker.
boy do i love rigorously copyrightable fantasy!
Of course the mighty Orruk ironjaws seek to disrupt the conflict while he loathsome kruleboyz wait in the shadows. Also there are some duradin in steampunk tophats.
Friendly reminder that the Tolkien estate wanted to copyright the terms
>dragon
>Dwarf
>Elf
>Goblin
>Orc
>Ent
>Hobbit
>Balrog
>Warg
And actually sued D&D for using those terms.
But they lost, and as a result all those terms except for Hobbit, Ent and Balrog are now public domain.
Just FYI next time someone complains about Warhammer "stealing" from Tolkien and GW rather using copyrightable terms for safety.
https://screenrant.com/lord-rings-dungeons-dragons-dnd-race-controversy-lawsuit/
Pic related
That’s been plagiarized from other sources no less. I wonder when GW will sue the Tolkien estate for stealing all their totally original ideas.
The only vaguely original concept that GW had for fantasy were the Skaven. And they're plagued by furgays now.
It's been improving since Soul Wars and Broken Realms was enjoyable during the first half, but second half of Broken Realms dropped the bool and current focus on beast is kinda boring compared to undead. On positive note the focus on places like Ghur at very least gave us some nice theme'd sculpts from Warcry and Underworlds.
No, its horrible attempt to add space marines to warhammer fantasy setting for quick cash grab, I guess?
“no!”
setting?
Same quality as warhammer fantasy really, it's just had less time to develop.
Pretty much what
said.
By now it's quite literally the same as WHFB in terms of nuts and bolts. You want small human towns in the shadows of vampire haunted castles and dark forests? Got it.
The fundamental difference of course is that AoS is mythological setting, as opposed to WHFB being a "historical" fantasy setting, thus, lots of mythological shit happens in the lore and official events. And of course Sigmarines.
But if you want to ignore that, the current setting has everything WHFB had.
Oh and
the copyright shit is still a thing obviously, but not as forced as memes make it seem.
tl,Dr - it's gotten a lot better after the 1st ED tried to push "buzzwords: the fight, the location, the army!". People pushed back and GW actually toned shit down significantly.
The copyright stuff is exactly as bad as people say. No elves and orcs here, only aelves and orruks.
Interesting how nobody cries about eldar and orkz, which is almost the exact same name changing
Bad example, modern 40k stopped using the term eldar years ago precisely because it wasn't copyrightable.
Good example because still, nobody cried about Eldar. And even better example, because people don't make a fuss about Aeldari either.
>The copyright stuff is exactly as bad as people say. No elves and orcs here, only aelves and orruks.
One of them is literally just a different spelling with the same sound, and the other is just pronounced slightly differently.
It's not even close to anything with an impact big enough to be mad about.
Don't blame GW for realising that it's probably not a good idea to run a multi million dollar franchise on borrowed/open source terms.
When your financial advisor asks you what of this you actually own, and your only response is head scratching and pointing at a rat with a minigun, then you probably should rethink things.
Is it more soulless? Yes. I prefer basic b***h dwarves and elves. But is it big enough a thing to be upset over? No.
Open source wouldn't be a problem if they were at least the leader. Tolkien, Blizzard and WotC dab on them when it comes to searching for the race names. Warcraft is especially bad, because they were literally offbrand Warhammer games that compleatly stole GW's place in popculture in 2000s
Yeah I don't buy the necessity argument for a second when their major competitors never pulled some bullshit like this. Just copyright your setting's version of a mind flayer and a displacer beast and call it a day.
>shamelessly rip off Tolkien and Moorwiener
>Oh no we need to change the names of all our factions so we can copyright them and stop people from doing the same thing to us
Kek it's like Iron Brew changing their name to Irn Bru so they could copyright it
Depends what you're looking for. Best Undead in GW, Chaos dynamics did 180 with good guys being the lurking force slowly conquaring the Chaos world and Might and Magic tier tech mesh up where robots and aliens coexist with guys armed with spears
I want my
I want my
I want my Dawi Zharr
TOTAL WAR DEATH
Dunno, still waiting for 3K2. I get why they stopped development but I don't really have high hopes for their next installment.
Total war: space and shieet
Screencap this. Space is coming
I’ve been saying TW40K’s been coming ever since Warhammer 1.
Total War: Warhammer 40K would be absolutely based.
A Dawn of War 1 + some mechanics from 2 game would be far better solution, 40k setting doesn't seem to fit in total war genre
The only way I could see them pulling it off is if they have a big meta map like TW games on a planet, a hiveworld maybe, and you build regiments with attachments of like, a space marine company helping guard or something. The company is designed beforehand like Wargame or Steel Division, and when you get into combat you control your units like that. A 40k game like Wargame would be fun, but it wouldn't be Total War.
You must not have considered how underwhelming and goofy futuristic, or even just modern, weaponry would look with Total War mechanics.
Post your go-to battle formation
here's mine, what do you think?
I find it better to overload one flank with cavalry so that you can win decisively while minimizing losses
For me,
from a shogun 2 perspective:
archers in front with spear sword mix behind them
flanks tipped with spears (yari sams) specifically for anti cav and can be used to charge enemy line from behind if not needed for anti cav
all cav on one of the flanks
works in multiplayer too, if they have a ton of cav you just box up with the flanking spears and use your cav for counter charging their cav.
why yes i do play seleucid entirely for cataphracts
how could you tell?
>why yes i do play seleucid entirely for cataphra-ACK!
Legend of total ware here
Decisive defeat
AHHHH STOP IT
Frick
based leg of total war
that's a lot of fancy boxes and letters for "recruit 20 slingers, put them on skirmish mode"
They'll shit out a few games that are 1:1 copies of Warhammer 3, which no one will play because they won't fix any of the core problems that the game had, and will eventually find another massive IP to leech off of because the fans from that other IP are starved of content and will buy literally anything that has it's name in it. That's what happened after Rome 2.
I feel like a LotR Total War would be hard to license. It's not like Games Workshop who just lends out their works to anyone.
Ring of powah and shitty mobile games are living proof of greed inside Tolkien. They are no better than GW nowadays
Which Tolkien? Because John Tolkien has been dead for 50 years, and Christopher died fairly recently. Pretty sure it's Middle-earth Enterprises that actually licenses rights necessary for videogames.
Tolkien Estate still owns The Silmarillion while LotR and Hobbit was sold to swedish gaming company...? That is why we see so many shitty mobile games based on LotR characters.
there are conversion mods which are mostly good but medieval 1s verson has a few meme maps that will make you want to want to auto resolve every battle in certain settings.
>would be hard to license.
just make it in Australia
in Australia, Lord of the Rings isnt locked behind copyright anymore because its over 80 years old.
literally no legal team could touch you
What the frick?
CA delayed easy money dlc for WH3 to make a fortnite copy?
Yeah, not that they had much to say. SEGA just threw money on them and said *make that happen or else... *
How can corporate be so stupid? Warhammer fanboys were begging for DLC to buy. Begging.
Imagine you have a captive market pleading with you for a way to give you their money.
Unbelievable.
Dunno, ask Relic why did they frick up with DoW3 or any American movie companies why they can't stop fking up whole industry. Poor management, greed and following trends on social medias
They'll release some more WH3 DLCs but the main thing is 40k. It's inevitable and no amount of historygay crying will prevent it. There's a good chance it'll be ass.
Inbetween then there will be some more throwaway history titles.
>It's inevitable
lol
lmao
i love how it's always secondaries (both TW and WH) who claim this with such surety and conviction
Cool buzzword gay, it is inevitable. CA isn't going to just go "welp it was fun making a shit ton of money with warhammer games, back to Medieval!".
You would have said it would be impossible for them to make a warhammer fantasy game, homosexual
I love both Total War with Medieval 2 TW being my favorite, and Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are fricking awesome (AoS has a few gems, but they’re buried under a mile of shit sadly). So I see nothing wrong in CA churning out Warhammer Total Wars so long as we still get some dedicated historical ones as well, I for one would kill for Medieval 3 and Rome 3 TW that actually covers the whole world, or at least Western Europe to Japan.
I played WHFB since '97. It's inevitable.
Why the frick hasn't somebody just made a spiritual successor to Total War yet?
CA has been dogshit ever since the engine change in Empire, so why can't another studio just do historical battling that actually feels decent? The closest is Paradox shit and that's just map autism.
knights of honor 2 came out like two months ago dude
Because making a Total War clone from the ground up would be an extremely long and expensive project? It isn't anywhere near as simple to clone as, well, practically anything else.
What are your Total War power rankings, bros?
God tier: Medieval 2
High tier: Attila
Mid tier: Rome 1, Warhammer 2, Shogun 2
Low tier: Warhammer 1
Haven't played the rest
SSS tier: Shogun 2&FOTS, Medieval 2
S tier: Atilla, Rome 1
A tier: Rome 2, Napoleon
B tier: Empire, Warhammer 2
wienersucker tier: Warhammer 1, Troy
>Shogun 2
>SSS tier
barbarian invasion deserves SSS
>S2 SSS
>Attila S
>Rome 2 A
If I didn't know better I'd say you've never played a single tw game and entirely based this off of reddit consensus
i played all of those on the list, didnt play three kingdoms and brittania tho, so they are not on the list
i played rome 2 like 3 years of its release so i never knew the bug criticism, and Atilla was worth the praise, much better, felt like playing in a world facing apocalypse
Only Good Game in the Franchise tier: Three Kingdoms
Pretty Fun tier: Shogun 2
moronic Map Painters for Children tier: WH1, WH2, WH3
ME2TW is and probably will forever be #1, only young zoomers can’t seem to get into it due to the outdated graphics, but even then all of them I’ve talked to have admitted that they wish they could play it since it’s mod community is killer. ME2TW + Dawn of War Soulstorm + Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines are my most played games, and it’s all thanks to mods adding so much to them.
The rest- Shogun 2, Rome(1), Atilla, Rome 2, Warhammer (this would be way higher if it could be modded properly, still the modders have worked magic, I’ll give them that), Troy, Empire, etc…
Pic is Chorf “LL” in the Warhammer (Beginning of the End Times) mod for ME2TW.
>m2
Trinity tier
>Shogun 1 Medieval 1 Rome 1
Mediocre fooder
>Shogun 2, Rome 2, Medieval 2, Attila, Napoleon
Disaster Tier
>Empire
Fantasy Tier
>Warhammer, Ro3K
Rome 1 is almost as janky as Med 2. The TW2 games were good for the time but are only playable now because of mods, otherwise they'd be complete shit tier.
Based med 1 grog
>almost
better colors, better music, working charges and pikes and 2handers
more fun in general
>working pikes
>tell pikes to slightly alter facing direction or width
>unit congeals into a ball, spins around, then repositions because the pathfinding can't handle the largest sizes
>tell them to attack
>the spin around and end up driving their flank into the enemy
Just because they weren't as buggy as vanilla Med 2 pikes doesn't mean they weren't trash. Wasn't until Shogun 2 that we got a fully functioning spear wall again (the previous game being Med 1).
for some reason m2 have plenty of bugged units that were much worse than rome 1
also worse colors(all brown) and music
Rome 1 > Med 2
M1 is incredibly underrated. In terms of battle mechanics especially I think it's the peak of simulation, aesthetically it shits all over M2, and the AI can actually handle the risk map.
The games turned away from simulation at some point and now just play like arcade abstractions, I don't find them appealing at all.
I have same feeling
also for some reasons battles are just meh, straight no fun
I swear, M1 was peak campaign simply because it was a Risk-style board with clear cut shit. Adding variable movement points disrupted the entire dynamic.
>AI is actually capable of doomstacking in Med 1 because of the risk board
The horror of seeing the Saracens stack 6+ banners on your boarder. How long did it take CA to get a campaign AI that could maintain effective stacks on the 3D maps? I could in S2 but that's because of the geography. I think it was Attila when it worked out how to consistently doomstack. I know it can do it 3K.
both shogun 1 and med 1 could have absolutely massive battles with dozens waves of enemy reinforcements
still remember some of it
and yeah risk style map was really helpful for the AI and for performance
probably die after normalgays get sick of warhammer and move onto another /tg/ hobby
Shogun 2 was the last good TW game
>What will happen to it now?
Put on the shelf by SEGA after they disband CA following Hyenas' catastrophic failure, then given to some no-name company a few years from now to churn out mobile shit.
total war: heroes of might and magic
Surely they will announce medieval 3 any day now.
I'm still waiting for a proper Rome 2. Or a functioning Empire.
we should get med2 remake this year
With an ugly UI, less realistic art style that will age worse than the original, and a world map that looks like a mobile game? No thanks
>TW general on /vg/ is nothing but Warhammer 3
>Any comments about older TWs get ignored
I hate this.
Total Peace city building game
>turns out CA has their office pretty close to where I live
they constantly post job offers and a significant portion of them is for their new fps
we have to wait for Hyenas to come out and unsurprisingly bomb before they make any more TW content.
They’re not abandoning a huge project unless it literally gets no players
The threads were filled with smoke and blood
So they've completely give up on the idea of smaller Saga games?
both projects failed so yeah. rebranding fall of the samurai as a saga title was scummy.
>rebranding fall of the samurai as a saga title was scummy.
Kek, thanks for that post, this thread made me want to frick around in Shogun 2 for a bit and I was wondering why the frick FOTS is gone. fricking CA Black folk.
>FOTS is gone
It's gone?!
>there’s still ToB gays
I'm not Volound but you guys should really watch his Youtube videos on the downfall of the Total War Franchise.
>Hyenas dies
>SEGA desperately look for any life line
>total war exists
>put every ounce of effort into TW as its the only thing they have that still makes money
>CA B Team gets fired
I think we're gonna be alright.
They really should make Pike and Musket game. Gunpowder Empires.
From Americas to Nippon
plenty of unique factions with different rosters, plenty of meme units that you could hype in trailers
Perfect period
Modern CA haven't been able to figure out how to simulate formations for like 5 games now and you want them to attempt pike & shot? lol. Face it, CA's MO is now to make the absolute most basic RTS battle mechanics but without buildings, slap a themed skin on it and then add on a tacky 'campaign' layer with abstract tokeneized resouces like 'food' points.
i have no trust in their abilities or any hope that they even will try to deliver
I just want Pike and Musket game
preferably good one
This.
>pike and shot in real life
>groups of musketeers and pikemen acting as one
>pike and shot TW
>one line of muskets in front of one line of pikes
>OR
>one line of pikes with gaps in them in front of one line of muskets with gaps in them
what happened?
three kingdoms is my favourite game in the series
It's very good, although I think it has some fundamental engine issue (eg gate forts not working properly because of the how the engine handles zones of control). I'm kind of hopeful for whatever that team is working on because they did good with the game (bugs and CA's deadlines not withstanding). But if they still going to be beholden to the same engine I don't know what more they can do.
Not my favorite but it was actually pretty good. With mods, like the ones that include characters from the novel, if you are a 3k fan, it might be one of the best.
Mine too, the campaign gameplay anyway. The diplomacy, spy and population mechanics are pretty great.
Attila was my favorite for the campaign for the longest time but I think 3K outdoes it.
The campaign mechanics were the best of a modern total war game. I'd like to see the army being split between multiple generals return too, there's a lot of potential in that mechanic.
still the best expansion
>Rome 1 remaster get ignored one week after release
Remember, it have a mod made bu the RTR and Roma Surrectum guys and that mod is fricking fantastic
Total warhamer 40k
In reality 40k would never work in the total war engine, and I dream of the day Eugene systems gets the license , a 40k RTS in the style of red dragon or steel divison would be absolutely kino. The deployment system already even works the same as the tabletop game