What's the quintessential anti-HFY sci-fi setting?

What's the quintessential anti-HFY sci-fi setting? For fantasy we have Exalted, for the modern day we have World of Darkness, but what sci-fi settings give off this same feeling?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    3BP

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Warhammer 40k, unironically. Humans are the most fricking dull faction faction in the setting.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Eclipse Phase.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I wouldn't say Eclipse Phase. The galaxy is littered with species who were wiped out by the exsurgent virus.
      You could perhaps argue the Cthulhu Mythos, as that was written before there was a clear demarcation between science fiction and fantasy, and technically includes sci fi themes like space travel and alien life

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        On top of that, humanity in its flavors are slowly adapting and perhaps winning against the things that caused the Fall, and it's also very pro-humanist even if it doesn't feel like it -- it's considered insane or fascist to want to refuse trans human tech or mind backups

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >World of Darkness
    >anti-HFY
    Try again.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      "Humanity is just prey for monsters and we're so weak and even the organizations that do exist to fight monster are just the pawns of other monsters and the world is doomed and there's nothing you can do about it!"
      Yeah not feeling the pro-human vibes.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Humans can Awaken into mages though and they're the most powerful splat, vampires don't have shit on the Technocracy.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Humans can Awaken into mages though
          The tiniest sliver of humans can, and they're not even allowed to use their magic around the rest of humanity without things blowing up in everyone's faces.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong, both Technocrats and Traditions mages have the goal of mass Awakening/enlightenment and that is the outcome of most Time of Judgment Ascension plots. All humans are meant to be mages and the destiny of humanity is Ascension.

            Caine is basically unkillable. Humanity could launch every nuke we have at him and it wouldn't destroy him.

            Not true at all, in fact the main advantage Caine has (you fight and kill him in a Gehenna scenario) is his curse which reflects whatever damage he takes 7fold back onto the one who hurt him. He can absolutely be killed, though he is essentially a powerful antediluvian with command over blood that rivals archmagi and their Spheres. In every scenario the PCs don't kill him, Caine is kidnapped by the Antes and put on trial before being devoured. He's not even close to invincible, he's a bit of a jobber, actually.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Okay, why fera and vampires cannot ascend?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because most of them aren't as BADASS as Samuel Haight.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because vampires are dead and thus have no Avatar, and because garou are not human, they're a demihuman species like the Fallen.

                >both Technocrats and Traditions mages have the goal of mass Awakening/enlightenment
                Which has never been shown to be possible and most attempts to awaken people either don't work or kill them

                Literally happens in multiple Ascension (Mage ToJ) scenarios, is the most common canon ending to mage. Awakening others is hard mostly due to the Ascension war and the influence of Nephandi who are pursuing Descension. The PCs can win this war for any side and thereby make mass Awakening/Enlightenment trivially easy. There's even a scenario where the TU and Traditions work together to purge Nephandic infiltration.

                Besides, all humans are latent mages, it's literally the basis of "consensus reality", that all the Sleepers use their innate Mage power to conform to moronic Nephandic propaganda. The most grimdark parts of WoD are just where it directly overlaps reality, for instance with the israeli nephandi who sacrifice children for their evil wall st paradigm

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >both Technocrats and Traditions mages have the goal of mass Awakening/enlightenment
              Which has never been shown to be possible and most attempts to awaken people either don't work or kill them

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the entire theme of Mage is about becoming a better person and having faith in humanity, which is literally embodied by seeking mechanics which are required for increasing your "caster level". Said seeking involves confronting your own complacency, apathy and hubris and gaining a greater understanding and appreciation of oneself. and all of the main factions are technically fighting for humanity's ascension

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        But its HFY for the normal Joes and Janes who deiced they aren't going to let oppressive odds get in the way of protecting humanity
        You can't get more HFY then hunters

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >You can't get more HFY then hunters
          OWoD Hunters needed supernatural help just to stand a chance and they're still not the strongest, NWoD Hunters tend to just end up being the pawns of the supernatural whenever they get large enough like Task Force Valkyrie.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I said Normal Joes and Janes not Glowie Josh and Blessed Johnas
            Besides that's like 2.5 conspiracy that are being pawns for the unnaturals
            You give me a farmer with a shotgun going against a vampire, Fighting impossible odds is what makes HFY good. It's what makes it punk

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Farmer John doesn't stand a chance against any of the actual big threats of the setting though. Sometimes, if he's lucky and he has friends, maybe he can take out a very low level vampire who is mostly just a disposable pawn, but he'll get demolished by anything bigger.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes which is what makes it HFY
                Facing overwhelming and possibly impossible odds but still remaining defiant makes hunter the best representation of HFY
                I don't think you understand that its not about humanity dominating over monsters but about how humanity is resisting the monsters

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Farmer John doesn't stand a chance against a tiger either, but humans have created a society where he probably won't encounter a wild tiger. How is that different than humans creating a society where he'll probably never encounter a hostile vampire?

                Caine is basically unkillable. Humanity could launch every nuke we have at him and it wouldn't destroy him.

                Caine might not even still be alive, the canon is purposefully vague on that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Farmer John doesn't stand a chance against a tiger either
                Quite the opposite? A tiger is just a wild animal, a round of buckshot to the face will probably kill it. With a vampire you need silver bullets, or a fricking flamethrower on hand, neither of which farmer John is likely to have.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >With a vampire you need silver bullets
                Silver does nothing special for wod vampires.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Flamethrowers are commonly used to clear brush on farms. Farmer John likely has a better flamethrower than most hunters.
                https://throwflame.com/

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Farmer John doesn't stand a chance against a tiger either

                Farmer John with a spear or other sharp object has a good chance to frick the tiger up so bad it dies a while later from bloodloss even if it wins. Even without spear John’s bite is suprisingly nasty and full of bacteria. Farmer John is very bony and his flesh stinks.

                No sane tiger would hunt Farmer John.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        except for the part where the kindred maintain the masquerade because the kine will unquestionably rise up and annihilate them down to the last if they ever get wind of the truth

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Caine is basically unkillable. Humanity could launch every nuke we have at him and it wouldn't destroy him.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Pic related. Twist is right up there with Onions Green.
          >Time Machine: probably the bleakest on my list. Man devolves into rabbits preyed upon by GigaChrabs.
          >Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead. Humanity is dead, Man's children are left with a brave new world.
          >Lovecraft: humans are just a bunch of apes. A literal nothing in the grand scheme of things.
          >Greek Mythology: at any moment, your city can explode. Why? Zeus had a bet with Bacchus he could frick Aphrodite at atomic speeds.
          >The Old Testament: don't frick with YHWH.
          >Sumerian Mythology: humanity doesn't matter. The afterlife sucks. What matters is what you leave behind.
          >Dead Space: as weird as it sounds, man was significantly more valuable to the moons than they were to Cthulhu... As food.
          >UFOlogy: the dickless greys have humanity trapped in a never-ending social experiment.
          >Blindsight: oh man. Blindsight. You're food to apex Hominids.

          You know, Warlockracy brought up a good point in his VTMB video: ever since the government admitted that there's literal UFOs, the lack of reaction suggests nothing but utter indifference. A Vampire would just be seen as a human with a weird skin condition.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Bro the WoD universe is mega pro-human, biblical YHWH is 100% real, all life in the entire universe is human-centric as humans are the only real people in existence and the "aliens" in the deep umbra are just fake manifestations of human belief, and the entire Ascension war is human-exclusive as humans are literally all fricking innate reality warpers and the ones who wake up and realize this fact can solipsistically impose their will on reality. The fae are literally going extinct and need to larp as humans in human bodies to avoid withering away to nothing. WoD is the most anthropomorphic universe in all fiction since literally the only things that matter in all creation are what humans collectively believe as true and the fricking old testament

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I may be wrong here, but isn't it implied that the only reason YHWH and the Bible are so important in the world of WoD is because so many people believe in them?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The israelite god isn't actually in WoD, the creator was very different to that type of characterization and there is neither sheol nor hell because abrahamic religion is still just made up. The nature of the Tellurian is such that there are bound to be spirits which believe they are yahweh god of israelites but these are not the creator, who is outside of creation and does not act even if the Earth is destroyed or Nephandi are causing Descension. Basically all religions are wrong in WoD, the closest myths are probably Garou Triat beliefs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, YHWH is important regardless of people believing in the Creator which is why despite the technocracy overwhelmingly winning the ascension war Gehenna is real and has multiple canon scenarios involving literal old testament figures showing up during the final days of this universe. Demon the Fallen goes further into this but the Creator is very much real independent of collective unconscious shit

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How can YHWH be real if the Triat is real?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Isn't God in the WoD universe just a big AI machine?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's nWoD/CofD and the God-Machine is not really a god, it's just an alien hyperdimensional construct which is controlled by hyperdimensional aliens, probably for colonizing our reality, which is governed by the Exarchs, mages who ascended to the Supernal Realms. Exarchs permit the God-Machine's activities as they are aligned for the time being.

            In classic world of darkness the entity referred to as "God" is the architect of Earth's Tellurian, an alien archmage of some variety (who humanity's image is based on) who has looooong ago fricked off to other Tellurians. There's the Triat, who are the core of his design, the principles of Entropy, Stasis, and Dynamism: the Wyrm, Weaver, and Wyld, which are the governing entities within the setting. Beneath them exist powerful spirits called Celestines which are like the planet spirits, Earth's is Gaia, Luna is Luna, Jupiter is Jupiter and so on. Beneath them are the exotic Celestial servant-spirits like the Fallen who participated in the creation of the Tellurian and probably co-equal to them are the Oblivion Nephwracks. Humans are the purpose of the Tellurian's grand design and thus they have the potential (indeed, the destiny) to master their latent divinity and shape their own realities. Whether that means being the seeds for new Tellurians throughout the cosmos or something more esoteric, we can only speculate.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Point of correction, I meant Oblivion Malfeans, Nephwracks are more like Cainites in the setting hierarchy

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Fallout or any other post-apoc setting where the apocalypse was entirely humanity's fault.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Exalted is cbtgfy (chosen by the gods frick yeah) though. Humans wouldn't matter if a rare few of them didn't have a magical soul reactor given to them by higher powers. In fact, Exalted is predicated on the fact that humans don't matter, because if they did, they never would have been granted Exaltations.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Xeelee Sequence, where humanity obtains the power of the gods only to squander it uselessly and piss off the interstellar community that really needed it to not die to darkmatter birds

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anything with the Cthulhu Mythos really.
    Yes I know that in the stories humans do sometimes kill the aliens or the monsters, but at the end of the day, humanity is doomed to go extinct as the Yithians presicted, the stars are doomed to be right again and Nyarlathotep has shown that the entirety of reality is doomed to be brought back to the ultimate abyss of chaos.
    The most you can do is push the clock back a little bit, but one day humanity will die.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm not sure there is a truly quintessential anti-HFY setting because "and thus humanity was humbled for its pride/greed by more pure beings" is an age old trope. HFY, as encapsulated by that term, comes from people rejecting those sort of stories.
    But if we're just naming notable examples, I'll mention Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. I'm speaking more about the manga than the movie, since the movie is more condensed and doesn't cover the full span of things. The whole story is about Nausicaa exploring a world that's become hostile to human life as a result of humanity's wrongdoings and the story more or less asserts that humanity, past, present, and future, deserves this fate. That is, humanity must face collective punishment for their sins against the planet and if that means the destruction of humanity, then so be it. Hell, the ending is pretty much Nausicaa committing genocide and destroying a vault of old world technology and knowledge so that humanity can't avoid judgment.
    You can argue that Nausicaa herself represents hope for humanity starting on a new path, but the story unquestionably harps on the follies of humanity at length.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >destroying a vault of old world technology and knowledge so that humanity can't avoid judgment

      Considering the nature and goal of the keeper of that particular vault (there was at least one another left fully intact, remember) Nausicaa took the best of the bad options she had.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you mean fricking over the current humans, the ship already sailed on that one when the sea of corruption was originally created. The world was gonna get purified automatically by the sea and the current humans were gonna be fricked no matter what. Punishing the old humans for dooming the current humans and, generally, meddling in the current humans' affairs was fair game. Killing the new humans, on the other hand, isn't really conscionable. Even Nausicaa herself says it's fricked up and the new humans were innocent, but she was dead set on rejecting the old humans' methods.
        Also I might be misremembering, but I thought the old humans said they could modify the current humans to survive in the purified world when the time comes.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Choice between her people’s continued existence vs. some frozen embryos of low test GMO freaks. What a hard choice!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It was nowhere near that clean of a choice. Destroying the old humans didn't slow or halt the purification process that was going to displace her people. She instead chose to embrace the uncertainty of whether the current humans would either die off or adapt.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >exalted
    >anti-hfy
    >The entire premise is uplifted apex humans made everything cool in the setting and now that they're not around it's falling apart but you're a cool enough dude to wrestle a literal mountain and call God a homosexual to his face.
    I am not sure what you mean.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The entire premise is uplifted apex humans made everything cool in the setting
      Not really? Most of the cool stuff in the setting was made by either the Primordials or the Gods. The uplifted apex humans fought on behalf of the Gods to free them, who then proceeded to abandon humanity so they could enjoy their divine video games all day long, and now the world is like 99% diminished from what it used to be and humanity is barely better of from where it was before if it's better off at all. And the handful of uplifted apex humans that do exist make life miserable for everyone who isn't an uplifted apex human which is 99.9% of the population, but it doesn't matter whether they're there or not because if they're not enslaving humanity, someone else is.

      Exalted is pro .001% of the human population, everyone else just gets fricked.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The problem is the Exalts aren't just apex humans, they're bearers of divine super weapons they had no hand in creating. They aren't amazing because they're human, they were extraordinary humans endowed with a divine blessing. Without said blessing, humans would still be ruled by the Dragon Kings. It isn't humanity's accomplishments, it is the Exalted's accomplishments.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The problem is the Exalts aren't just apex humans, they're bearers of divine super weapons they had no hand in creating. They aren't amazing because they're human, they were extraordinary humans endowed with a divine blessing. Without said blessing, humans would still be ruled by the Dragon Kings. It isn't humanity's accomplishments, it is the Exalted's accomplishments.

      The funny thing is that Solars have the ability to remake reality under their fingertips but are too stupid to use their powers to their full potential. They're a group of almighty idiots using the ability to mold concepts to their will for the equivalent of a back-scratcher while it slowly drives them insane, ignorant that they could grab insanity by the throat and strangle it to death if only they could perceive reality beyond the third dimension.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Solars didn't know about the Great Curse. If they did, they would have fixed it.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's what I meant, they can't perceive it happening in spite of their power.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Eclipse Phase. Flats are deeply, profoundly fricked in every way.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Cthulhu Mythos. And hell, it's even more anti-HFY than your other examples.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Alien universe is actively hostile to humans and the aliens that created humanity consider us a failed species that needs to be wiped out. Plus the androids some of whom can kill entire planets of said aliens also hate us.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Warhammer 40k. Ignoring the gibbering shits that take in-universe propaganda seriously, the Imperium of Man is a decaying nightmare, slowly sliding into the abyss while screaming and shitting everywhere, annihilating entire civilizations in is death throes while crying "Humanity Number One!"

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's an argument to be made that Fallout is a pretty strong anti-HFY setting. Humanity was on the cusp of a post-scarcity society only to burn it all on petty realpolitik during WWIII, and rather than pick up the pieces like Star Trek did it uses the pieces left over to club any rising policy back to the stone age like crabs in a bucket.
    The most stable post-war country is nuked and rather than lend a hand the local tech hoarders kick it while its down. What started as a weapons project grew into a form of intelligent life willing to cooperate with mankind if making the wastes a safer place for everyone, only to be ruthlessly gunned down out of the fear they'd displace humanity, the project redone until a satisfactory man-killing creature was conceived.
    In spite of horrific mutants lingering in the midst, the most dangerous beings are men with ambition. Replicators, sleeper ships, cold fusion; all there for the taking if the right hand didn't strangle the left hand for daring to reach for it.

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