Whats the worst retcon youve ever seen in a game? Posted on May 22, 2023 by Anonymous Whats the worst retcon youve ever seen in a game?
This is why the setting of TESVI will be High Rock, Bethesda will never not do something that doesn't fit into a generic nordic/medival fantasy mold again. At best they'll do a weird setting for an expansion pack.
>implying TESVI will be a single area again
It's been over a decade, they will include all of skyrim
The irony is how Bethesda portrayed Oblivion is alot closer to how High Rock is supposed to be portrayed. Oblivion borrows alot of fairytale elements with enemies and locations instead of being a jungle with Roman civilization at the center.
>t-they won't do the other provinces because it's too weird for the casuals
Get over yourself retard
i will find pretty funny if bethesda just put 1 house in tesvi and call it a village, as opposed to the 3 houses villages in skyrim
>more nordic shit
God damn im not ready to be bored again..
By the time TESVI releases, it'll be virtually a reboot.
They'll do Morrowind 2 before anything else
I want a bounty system where the Dovahkiin shows up and absolutely wrecks your shit everytime you decided to go extra psycho when you quick save.
Gayest thing I've heard in two hours and my roomie has been blasting gachi music for the last three hours now.
have you never played a video game before?
These are not valid responses, they're the equivalent of going "UMMM, HELLOOOOO?" or screeching "NO DOY!!!" You're going to start getting confused for a bot if you keep behaving like one.
it's a perfectly valid response to retards who expect vidya representation to be 1:1 scale of lore.
>um why doesn't the capital city have 10k npcs and take 5 hours to walk around???
How do we know you're not the bot?
Tribes 2 had endless procedurally generated terrain when you went out of bounds. It's not like the technology hasn't been possible for decades to have an endless jungle that if you go too far becomes increasingly hostile to the point that you die.
Love Tribes but they just repeated the main map endlessly out of bound. Looks kind of seamless because they mirror the map at every seam. I think early battlefield games did similar.
Why does TES live rent free on chuds heads? They hate it but they can't stop talking about it after 10 years.
Do you have brain damage?
there is no such thing as a good forest in video games
all of them are either too small or not dense enough to feel like real forests, sometimes devs cheap out and have a big forest in the background that you never get to explore out of a short, set path
over 40 years of console games and no forest in any game has ever looked good or felt like a real location
>Whats the worst retcon youve ever seen in a game?
Yeah. The Longest Journey to Dreamfall, Stark specifically.
>there is no such thing as a good forest in video games
Someone needs to play Kingdom Come.
It's a technical miracle that they got thick forests working in that game. Really gotta wonder how they did it.
Apparently, the Crytecs proficiency with rendering plausible folliage was the sole deciding factor for picking that engine.
And it nearly fucking killed the franchise. In fact it may have killed it anyway. We'll see how things play out with KC:D2.
Why would it kill it?
Cryengine isn't great for RPGs apparently.
Or they just didn't utilize it properly
Not apparently, the engine is not really all that flexible other than allowing big areas easily compared to UE4 which was the biggest weakness of the engine but in exchange it's extremely flexible, combine that with Crytek's shitty support to developers working on their engine I can't even imagine the madness that would been developing Kingdom Come
>Why would it kill it?
KC:D was from the ground up intended to be a first entry in a trillogy. The idea was to make three modestly large titles, each taking place few decades later than the first one, mapping out the history of the Hussite uprising.
Through out the development of KC:D, the engine became a CONSTANT source of problems and frustrations, to a point where the studio genuinely decided they abandon the whole 3-part design because they just didn't want to deal with the engine anymore, and portion was just not viable - instead focusing on "fattening" up the first episode into a larger title, and cutting the franchise there.
If you ever wondered why KC:D's story is so awkward, it's because it's a script for what was meant to be a first chapter of three, becoming the whole finalized game.
After KC:D released, the studio had ZERO intention of making a sequel, purely because of their hatered of the engine.
Then, a year later, Embracer swooped in, offering a frankly ABSURD amount of money for the sequel, and eventually agreed to buy-out the studio whole.
Consequently, the sequel went into production after all, but most of the people who had direct control over the first game are now stepping down to merely producing roles, and are working on their own personal projects.
They still retained their veto rights and control over the operations though.
>why are video games shit these days
>eventually agreed to buy-out the studio whole.
>Consequently, the sequel went into production after all, but most of the people who had direct control over the first game are now stepping down to merely producing roles
Play Wurm Online
Like anon said, KC:D
The jungle in Forbidden west felt good.
>morroboomers still seething
oblivion came out in 2006
if you were a 16 years old teenager when you played when it came out
it that makes you a 33 years old boomer today..............
>50 years old mummy still lurking an anime board for teenagers is implying 30 years old are boomers
nice cope, how does it feel knowing you can suddenly die?
>he doesn't know
Newfags are so cute
>being proud to be older than 25 and be in his board out of all of them
if your mom is still alive tell her how you just pwned a newfag today, she'll be proud I'm sure
your hypertension is showing through your writing style
settle down on those processed foods loaded with all that salt, it's not gonna be good for you long term
the meaning of the word "boomer" changed years ago to "anyone older than a zoomer," stop making a fool of yourself
>nice cope, how does it feel knowing you can suddenly die?
Sorry, still unvaxxed.
That book is literally in Oblivion too
Based, Morroboomers and Skyzoomies can fuck off
It is just the Morrowind crowd that has a problem with Oblivion. They don't like Oblivion nostalgia kicking in. It cuts in on the only thing that keeps Morrowind alive here.
Morrowind is actually good
t. Started with Skyrim
The mainquest is top tier. The gameplay is complete ass.
MW's gameplay is actually expansive and allows for a lot of player agency and build variety. You start the game as a total bitch and by the end you're a living god. There's actual character progression unlike Skyrim which play more or less the same the whole way through.
Oblivion is in between because it's combat sucks but you still get way more new abilities and ways to play than in Skyrim.
Oblivion combat is mechanically superior to both Skyrim and Morrowind. If it had Morrowind tier progression as you explained it would be unquestionably considered the best.
Honestly I find it more entertaining because it’s based on chance.
Morrowind is better than your play dough pseudo-Lombard simulator.
Morrowind is a mediocre game with an outstanding main quest. Nothing more.
morrowind is better than most games
so glad they didn't do that, jungles are not comfy
When they said bridget is a chud even though both he, his story, and the authors themselves had already confirmed blatantly otherwise
A character changing to something else in a new game isn't a retcon.
Oblivion is fucking jarring. I think Todd acknowledged his mistake in some interview and course-corrected the series with Skyrim mostly following the PGE.
People don't give Skyrim enough credit. No fantasy race will ever be as fleshed out as the Dunmer again, but the Nords are the 2nd most detailed race in the setting, but get ruled out because of their aesthetic. Fun fact: the words "kalpa" and "godhead" did not appear in any official Elder Scrolls property until Skyrim.
Skyrim still made the Nords way less interesting than they were in the previous games by mostly wiping out their religion and culture from existence and retconning their signature special power into actually belonging to the dragons all along (the whole special relationship between nords and dragons Skyrim introduced is shit in general since dragons were supposed to be an Imperial thing)
They didn't appear because they were still trying to hide the fact they were ripping of the Hindu faith.
>The Tribunal Temple of Morrowind has incorporated the veneration of Daedra as lesser spirits subservient to the immortal Almsivi, the Triune godhead of Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vivec. These subordinate Daedra are divided into the Good Daedra and the Bad Daedra. The Good Daedra have willingly submitted to the authority of Almsivi; the Bad Daedra are rebels who defy Almsivi -- treacherous kin who are more often adversaries than allies.
Excerpt from Darkest Darkness - A book in Morrowind
todd liked the lord of the rings movies
>could have gotten jungle kino
>got the windows xp default background
I want this board to acknowledge that Oblivion is the black sheep of the trilogy.
Oblivion was laughed at and hated on launch. It was ugly. It played bad. Every voiced character who wasnt the emperor or Sean Bean sounded like they got picked off the street to “act.” Magic got nerfed or pruned and the leveling, the MAIN reason to play any RPG was cancer.
>Oblivion was laughed at and hated on launch.
Ya those constant 10/10 and 9/10 rating sure shat all over the game. Those record sales too. Really a giant flop! THey will never recover after that blunder
I think he means on Ganker and not amongst gaming "journalists" and assorted other people who had never played a single RPG in their life before.
Wow le Ganker hated a game? I cant believe it! Truly a flop!
>why are people talking about Ganker's opinion on something in a conversation about Ganker's opinion on something
Do they really?
why are people playing pretend about an opinion of random people from 20 years ago that no one can prove either way?
Cause I want to prove that my opinion is more valid than your opinion
Because the discussion began with a fella expressing his desire to one day see Ganker shit on Oblivion, and the other guy replied by claiming that it is something that already happened
There's nothing to be proven you dumb shitter, he's just replying to a guy
Actually that never happened and the majority of Ganker loved Oblivion on release
He's talking about this board's opinion you dumb gorilla
When did this place become a hive mind?
>the main reason to play any role playing game
>Got the greatest vanilla fantasy game ever in return
Nah we're good.
>I want this board to acknowledge that Oblivion is the black sheep of the trilogy.
Ganker shat on Oblivion for years and they magically like it now. Maybe because the zoomers that played the game when they were kids are posting here now.
>and they magically like it now.
No they don't. It's all contrarian trolling.
I never didn't like it
Oblivion and Fallout 3 both came out in periods of time when it would be impossible for even the earliest Gen-Z vermin to have nostalgia for it. However attaching a contrarian, revisionist rhetoric by saying they were “kino” or “based” and attaching some gay shit like gigachad to it means you can spark debate about it. Even though everything about both games has been discussed ad-nauseam.
Oblivion and Fallout 3 are loved by two groups of people; late millenials who grew up with the games and missed out on Morrowind/Fallout 2 to nostalgia over, and early gen Zs who remembered their sibilings playing it, but went back to those games after growing up with Skyrim/Fallout 4 and mistakenly thinking the entries that further dumbed down the series were the problem and not Oblivion/Fallout 3 setting the standard for how to dumb the games down. They're just aware enough of the continual worsening of the medium to realize that what we currently have is total slop, but not enough to realize they should probably try playing some games that came out BEFORE everything started being converted to slop, or are unable to due to being unable to handle games without realistic-styled 3D graphics.
none of the elder scrolls games were very good. the quests were ok at best and the combat was as fun as an aids diagnosis. the world is bland and theres nothing to do. all of them are 4/10 but people really really really love the world and lore for some reason.
>Elder Scrolls IV
You know very well that Arena and Daggerfall aren't the same type of comparable games as the latter three you pedantic gay.
That's not even the worst retcon that series has, Dragonbreak is by far worse, and is the reason why Cyrodill isn't an endless jungle.
It wasnt a jungle in arena infact it was just like how it was in oblivion, you gays never played arena or daggerfall fucking posers
Redguard/Morrowing retcons good.
Oblivion/Skyrim retcons bad.
There are no Skyrim retcons. There are sloppy insertions, but no retcons.
>It wasnt a jungle in arena
That could be easily excused due to engine/graphic limitations.
thanks for conceding
If I recall, Arena allowed you to go to the Black Marsh, which would be impossible for non-argonian races to stay in for even short periods w/o dying from AIDS.
Imperials also didn't exist in Arena and Daggerfall, adding them was an example of a good retcon. The point is that Oblivion retconned something that was cool in favor of making it more generic and boring.
>The point is that Oblivion retconned something that was cool
It never existed in the first place secondary
>It wasnt a jungle in arena
and black marsh wasnt a swamp in arena...
After finally playing Oblivion again for the first time since Skyrim released, I do have to admit they did comfy generic fantasy with dark undercurrent well. It just shouldn't have been an Elder Scrolls game.
the only thing that didnt age well is the static villages and very few npcs. everyone just stands there
Never mind retconning the jungle, there was no fucking Nibenean and Colovian disparity
Nobody had any unique identity really, orcs just walking around in quilted doublets and shit
>Never mind retconning the jungle, there was no fucking Nibenean and Colovian disparity
>Nobody had any unique identity really, orcs just walking around in quilted doublets and shit
What do you expect? It's the heart of the empire, the richest, most cosmopolitan, most "romanized" province in the entire continent; after 400 years of course it's going to be unified in traditions and culture and everyone is going to be well dressed.
Cyrodiil had already been the cosmopolitan center of a continent-spanning empire once before before the Third Empire came around
Not the same empire, and they had the 400 years of the Interregnum between them fucking shit up. Then Septim came, brought peace and unification for another 400 year; it's not so weird that regional differences were softened.
I hate lorefags so much
They read one line and want the games to reflect that despite the line being written literally hundreds of years before the current game
Yeah I agree. These fags should stop wanting the game to have more than one environment or any significant difference between its cities besides minor differences in architecture.
How did you get that from anons post? Stop being a dumbass, dumbass.
>How did you get that from anons post?
From the fact that he was getting assmad about someone wanting the largest country and stated "melting pot" of cultures to not be a monoculture.
So the dumbassery is incurable then. You have my condolences
And now you're getting assmad about me stating a fact about his (likely your) post.
>How did you get that from anons post?
From the fact that you're made at people wanting different environments in these games.
That's not even a retcon. It's one line from a book that was probably written by an intern. Cyrodiil was
Yeah man Skingrad and Bravil and Cheydinhal all look so similar lol.
>Game takes place in the heart of the empire
>Empire based on Romans
>Surprised that the inhabitants abandon their culture
Do you now know how Rome ran shit?
Isn't that a book written thousands of years ago before the terrain changed?
Why was it written in the same language as thousands years into the future? Why is its outdated edition still available?
>Why was it written in the same language as thousands years into the future?
Because the book was copypasted from Morrowind where it was still relevant, since geographical guides generally never expire.
>Why is its outdated edition still available?
Something something historical record even though it's still presented as a "guide" and not a record of what once was. The real answer is they just copied every book from Morrowind and didn't bother checking them all for consistency. At least it's not as bad as TESO where they have that book in the game before the time where Talos supposedly changed the jungle with the Numidium and the devs explained it away with "haha must be from a daedric realm where it was pulled from another kalpa where there was a jungle *wink wink*" when asked why and then added some book to the game where scholars were debating over why that book called Cyrodiil a jungle so that they could retcon Oblivion's "Talos did it" retcon.
No, just 435+ years, before Tiber Septim chimmed the jungle away.
Morrowind attempting to retcon the prior TES games was unfortunate. Thankfully they just ignored Morrowinds fuck up altogether.
To this day, Morrowchuds and Skybabs still cant name a quest better than Whodunit and the entire Thieve's Guild questline.
The best they can do is to try , and fail, to tear them down. They know better than to offer up something they would have to defend. They know they are wrong but still want to fight
the sweetroll quest is a ok. its pretty good as an intro tutorial quest.
none of them were ever very good and the writing only got worse from morrowind.
the leveling system isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. As long as you don't powerlevel meme skills like speechcraft you will stay in line with the difficulty of the monsters. it was made that way so you could explore anywhere from the start.
If you don't like that install OOO.
>and 30+ performance mods so you only get crashes once every few hours
>the leveling system isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
It actually is a big deal
>As long as you don't powerlevel meme skills like speechcraft you will stay in line with the difficulty of the monsters
If you have to literally ignore all noncombat skills for your character to function then it objectively is a big fucking deal. Especially when you're tacitly admitting that it makes many noncombat skills completely useless.
> it was made that way so you could explore anywhere from the start.
Which is a bad thing. So they did something retarded for a stupid reason
OOO is like 8 years out of date at this point or more
new vegas proved not having scaling leveling is infinitely better than scaled leveling.
They had to use invisible walls to railroad you on the proper path though New Vegas is a glaring example of what not to do.
you can literally go directly from good springs to new vegas or the dam or whatever. and invisible walls has nothing to do with level scaling
oblivion had a fuck ton of invisible walls.
you can go straight to navarro in fallout 2, but you're obviously railroaded clockwise around the map. stop being disingenuous
And you're "railroaded" to Cloud Ruler Temple in Oblivion.
So the devs intended for me to end up in Jacobstown out of Goodsprings?
>And you're "railroaded" to Cloud Ruler Temple in Oblivion.
no, because the difficulty curve is a flat line. the world is the exact opposite of a railroad
You're still herded there, in fact more urgently than you are in NV or Morrowind since you're told that the entire world will end if you don't.
>hurr you can ignore it
You're not intended to and they leave a key item at the top of your inventory at all times to remind you of this. Unlike NV where you're told they maybe went south, but probably are headed to Vegas, and just that you shouldn't try to go north since the "roads are dangerous." But a lot of people did beeline for Vegas early on, especially through Black Mountain since there are a few routes you can sneak through there pretty easily if you get lucky with mutant/deathclaw patrols or use a stealth boy. You know, the stealth boy you're pointed towards as part of the tutorial.
Yeah I did because I'm not a retard who's never played an RPG before like "the rest of you," sounds like a skill issue to me.
Nobody who got filtered by Oblivion can use the " skill issue" insult. Your gamer card should get pulled.
Try a game with training wheels like Morrowind. That seems more your tolerance level for difficulty.
>Nobody who got filtered by Oblivion
Good thing I didn't then.
Meanwhile you're here walking straight into the bright orange bear trap marked "for retards" left by the devs and insisting it's "a railroad"
Glad to hear you aren't one of the lesser lights among that got filtered by Oblivions scaling. So many are willing to admit just how bad they are at video games nowadays
Oh Oblivion's scaling is still shit, I just didn't get filtered by it because I made a competent character from the get-go since i understood the leveling system. It still ruined the game experience for me since nothing got more or less challenging for me at any point becaues of it, it's all one flat monotone non-difficulty with the only variance being that things took longer to kill at higher levels. But by that point I had already figured out how to do alchemy loops and spell combos so I just powered through the rest of that playthrough.
> I didn't get filtered while still getting filtered .
You aren't all that bright are you?
Well if the game being too boring but not enough that I didn't complete it is "getting filtered" then I guess, btu with that logic you've been filtered from every game in existence that isn't Oblivion.
I do not see how you came to the conclusion you did but if it helps your low self esteem then sure. The only game I was ever good at was Oblivion.
I hope that helped you in some way.
I came to that conclusion since New Vegas is not by any means a hard game but was still too hard for you to enjoy it, so it's just simple extrapolation.
Unlike your extrapolation that anyone who at all says anything negative about Oblivion's scaling, ever, regardless of any of their other opinions of the game even if it's their favorite game of all time, was filtered by the game even though they know more about the game and have more hours in it than you do.
Did you do that on your first playthrough? No, you went south like the rest of us.
> I totally did though.
It isn't a lie if you believe it.
Not him but I did and it's why I dropped New Vegas and decided Fallout 3 was the better game for years. I vaguely knew the game wanted me to take the long way around, but I could also see that there was another option by going north. After getting fucked by Cazadores a few times I decided the game was obviously a busted grindfest and gave up.
Then one day I decided to give it another try, this time doing what the developers obviously intended for me to do, and I got to regret being such a stubborn idiot back then because I actually really enjoyed playing the game the way it was intended.
NV is a fine game for what it is. Just not a very good Fallout game.
kek I had the same experience. got filtered hard trying to play it like oblivion. played 3 afterwards and loved being able to go anywhere. it's a lot closer to fallout 1 and 2 than any bethesda game, it's very misleading
Either dumbassery is contagious or the same dumbass is responding on a different post.
If you think you weren't being herded in NV you aren't as smart as you imagine you are
They had to use invisible walls because Vegas had too many LOD models for consoles to load at once, retard. You have about a dozen different ways to Vegas right from the start. And unlike Oblivion, you'll actually get a different experience from going those dozen ways, instead of getting literal interchangeable unchallenging level scaled dungeons with nothing in them but loot that's at most very marginally better than what you have
We have a dumbassery epidemic breaking out.
Next try they did it to stop you from getting stuck on the rocks. That was used by dumbasses early on .
>We have a dumbassery epidemic breaking out.
True, some retard keeps getting BTFO by facts and logic, and things like direct statements from designers, so he just calls everyone posting them stupid since he has no argument. Keeps thinking they're all the same person for some reason too
Yes the anon os struggling with the fact the devs railroading you on a path they want you to follow is a poor answer to level scaling
What can you do? Some people are married to their idiocy.
Yeah, the devs who give you a dozen ways to not go on the path they want you to follow were definitely railroading you.
More like they were just wrangling tards like you who would have ran north into the Cazadores and then refunded the game for being "unplayable" like people used to do with RPGs that actually had RPG mechanics and worlds worth exploring before Oblivion did its best to make that a thing of the past.
You willing to make excuses for the railroading does not justify it. You even acknowledge there are pathways to avoid the railroading
>pathways to avoid the railroading
Thus, making it not a railroad.
I accept your concession that it doesn't railroad you.
> You don't have to follow the path laid out you can use the backdoors they put in.
That isn't quite the validation you seem to think it is.
Then every game in existence "railroads you" because they all encourage you to go do some specific thing at the beginning regardless of whether that thing is required to access the world or not.
Encouragement to go somewhere is fine.
In Fallout 3 you exit the vault and are looking directly at the Lincoln Memorial. That is encouragement to follow the path. Fucking invisible walls is a s hamfisted as you get.
One is clever use of the environment to entice the player to do what you want. The other is the iron fist of the dev leading you by the nose to designated fun spots.
There is a reason one studio is making shovel ware for Microsofts game scheme and one is the flagship studio.
Water finds its own level
>Encouragement to go somewhere is fine.
OK, thank you for conceding.
You would be a natural at Morrowind. You missed the fuck out of the point I made.
Nah, I didn't. You're using mental gymnastics to claim that the game telling you you MUST do a thing, but offering you complete freedom otherwise is not railroading, but a game telling you that you should do a thing but offering you complete freedom to do otherwise should you have the skill is not.
Notice, how the objective only difference in freedom (ignoring that Oblivion and Fallout 3 objectively railroad you at the start as they both have unskippable forced tutorial levels unlike New Vegas) is that one of them requires you to be good at the game and the other does not. You're taking issue with that, so it's clear your problem is a skill issue and not a game design issue.
It's fine to admit that you're just shit at videogames, because that's literally your argument. Your argument is "New Vegas is linear because I am bad at videogames."
The complete freedom thing is where your argument falls apart though . New Vegas does not offer you complete freedom. The invisible walls prevented that.
>The complete freedom thing is where your argument falls apart though
Name any playable locations besides the hoover dam offices or Lanius' camp that you can't immediately make your way towards upon leaving Doc Mitchell's house and I'll concede. otherwise you're objectively incorrect.
As long as you follow the path you can get anywhere. Just head South and you will hit the designated fun points in the proper order
Huh, guess I was hallucinating when I just went north and plucked the wings off cazadores with the 9mm SMG I got in the doc's house from on top of a rock and grabbed Chance's Knife and a fire axe for free then.
OK let's add Fallout 3 to this list:
>forced to sit through a dozen unskippable cutscenes
>forced into a linear dungeon that takes about 10-20 minutes
>get told "go find your dad" and pointed to the nearest settlement
>game then dumps you into the open world
Huh... look at that, it railroads you more than NV does, objectively.
Let's compare directly them
>get forced into a linear dungeon that takes about 15-20 minutes
>at the end of the dungeon, get told that you MUST deliver the Amulet of Kings to Weynon Priory ASAP or the entire world will be destroyed, you included
>omnipotent narration in the intro shows that this is in fact true and not some madman's rantings
>game then dumps you into the open world
>get told "if you want to know where the guy who shot you was go to the saloon and ask around"
>game then dumps you into the open world
Yeah the second one is definitely railroading you and not the first one.
Which one had invisible walls in the middle of the map again?
> Well ackshually Oblivion had invisible walls as well since cities were seperate cells.
You could still go in the cities from the get go though.
Which one had invisible walls in the middle of the map again?
>You could still go in the cities from the get go though.
You can go anywhere in New Vegas instantly after chargen aside from Lanius' camp and the Hoover Dam offices.
You can only go one place in Oblivion immediately after chargen.
You seem to be conflating having to do the tutorial with being railroaded.
Yes it sucked but has nothing to do with being railroaded.
When I create a character in New Vegas I can go anywhere I want.
When I create a character in Oblivion I have to complete the sewers before I can do anything else.
Somehow the first one is railroading, and the second one isn't, and your reasoning for that is "I am bad at videogames therefore nobody else could possibly do it."
Being willfully ignorant is a way to go I guess.
It must be, or else you wouldn't be here arguing about how a game that intentionally gives you tools to go anywhere you want railroads you because it also doesn't also make sure all the enemies on your route are level 1 rats.
Just keep ignoring the invisible walls in the middle of the map. The crux of my argument. I don't blame you. How the hell can you explain that away?
>Just keep ignoring the invisible walls in the middle of the map
You mean the invisible walls that block off the unplayable portion of the map that has nothing in it except the default dirt texture?
Only when you start ignoring the invisible walls blocking off unplayable areas in Oblivion. Oh and a few in dungeons as well that railroad you onto the intended route through the dungeon.
Are you complaining they didn't let you walk the entirety of Nirn in Oblivion? How is that remotely close to invisible walls in the middle of the map?
>Are you complaining they didn't let you walk the entirety of Nirn in Oblivion?
No, I'm not, you are.
Well, not in Oblvion,but in New Vegas, where you want to explore the empty dirt expanse outside the map. And apparently you can also just walk straight up the Jerall Mountains.
nta, but you're saying that there being terrain is railroading? That correct?
No. terrain is terrain. I can't see how the game world itself not being a flat plane could be considered the only possible way to be non railroading .
Not sure what point you are trying to make.
>No. terrain is terrain
Yet here you are saying the game railroads you because you have to go around a mountain (but it's okay when Oblivion does it)
Just keep ignoring the invisible wall. You really don't have any other option do you?
Are you at least willing to admit you are aware of the invisible walls in New Vegas?
You seem to be backpedaling a lot. Earlier you said the quest railroaded you into it but when pointed out that Oblivion's more heavily incentivises you to follow it you changed to it being the enemies that railroad you, but when people pointed out you can just kill or sneak past high level enemies you changed your tune again and now it's something about invisible walls which are only on the border edges of the map (since NV doesn't make use of the full grid like Fallout 3/Oblivion sort of did)
Asking you to clarify is backpedaling?
Nah but where did you do that? All I see is:
>The game forces you to go this way!
>okay it doesn't BUT IT MAKES IT REALLY HARD NOT TO!
>okay it doesn't BUT I CAN'T GO OUTSIDE THE MAP WITH HORSE GLITCHES
like how do you not see how retarded you sound? go back and read your full post chain again
You are giving the strawman you created all kinds of what for. I don't know why you are quoting me though.
Oh you're the Pajeet, I didn't realize.
Carry on retard
No I said the invisible walls railroad you.
Yeah you started harping on invisible walls which was a proven non-argument hours ago when it was pointed out that their existence in Oblivion and Fallout 3 both nullifies that argument completely, but you only started doing that after people pointed out that high level enemies are not walls and that you can just kill them/sneak around them. Prior to getting told you had a skill issue that was the crux of your argument, now your argument is devolved into "I am railroaded because I can't access unplayable areas of the map" which is the only place in New Vegas that has invisible walls, since they're only on borders of the map atop cliffs or at hoover dam where they're only on the dry side to keep you from climbing on the dam like a goat since the engine can't handle slopes.
> I decided earlier your points were irrelevant.
Good for you. You sure as hell didn't make a convincing argument to support that conclusion.
I don't blame you for not wanting to defend the invisible walls in the middle of the map. It is indefensible.
>You sure as hell didn't make a convincing argument to support that conclusion.
I proved objectively that your issues were skill related and not game design, to the point where you've spent the last hour screeching about the game having borders that aren't a perfect square means it's railroaded (unless it uses said borders to railroad you into a metro tunnel dungeon or prevent you from completing dungeons outside the intended linear path) so I think I don't really need to do anymore, it's pretty obvious your argument is in shambles.
I thonk you have beaten the strawman to death.
If you want to take a stab at defending invisible walls in the middle of the map have at it.
You won't because you can't.
Except for the invisible walls.
> You can go around them.
Yes that is called being railroaded.
>Except for the invisible walls.
Well damn, I can't go past the borders of the map in Oblivion either, and I have to go around some mountains if I want to go to Bruma, so I guess that also railroads you, objectively, according to your own logic. Such a shame that every Bethesda game is a completely linear railroad.
Anon you are literally saying that you have to go around a mountain, therefore the game railroads you. with your own logic, Oblivion objectively railroads you because there are some mountains you have to take paths around to climb up or get around.
No I am saying theresre invisible walls preventing you from doing anything but going around.
You can use horses to climb any mountain in Oblivion. Mountains make sense in game. Morrowinds Foyadas made sense They sucked but they made sense. Invisible walls are an inexcusable method of herding the player
>No I am saying theresre invisible walls preventing you from doing anything but going around.
They also exist in Oblivion and Fallout 3, so every Bethesda game railroads you.
>You can use horses to climb any mountain in Oblivion
That's skyrim, you can only do that in Oblivion if you move diagonally, which would be going around the mountain, which would objectively make it a railroad by your definition.
Where are these invisible walls in the middle of the map in Oblivion and Fallout 3?
The best I can guess is you are talking about the rubble in DC forcing you to use the metro system to move around.
If not I have no clue.
There's rubble in the metro and a few in the mountains in Oblivion and then a fuckton in dungeons to stop you from skipping portions of them. It's not really relevant though since the invisible "walls" in new vegas only exist in areas only accessible via glitching up a mountain or at the edges of the playable space there too and your definition has increasingly backpedaled from "the game forces you to take this specific route to Vegas so it's railroaded" to "the game doesn't let me go to these specific coordinates on the game map so it's railroaded" and you also excuse Oblivion railroading you in the tutorial for no reason whatsoever.
You keep using " backpeddaling" incorrectly.
Yes all the gameshave invisible walls at the edge of the playable map.
I don't think anyone has an issue with those .
The ones in the middle, the ones you constantly ignore, are the cause of the railroading claim. Mostly because they are there to railrod the player along the proper narrative path.
>You keep using " backpeddaling" incorrectly.
Nope, I don't. You haven't even mentioned the enemies in an hour, that's clear backpedaling when they were literally the entirety of your argument a while ago.
>Yes all the gameshave invisible walls at the edge of the playable map.
Good, then I'm glad we agree that by your logic all of the games railroad you.
>The ones in the middle
So the ones that stop you from climbing on broken geometry at the dam and on top of mountains you can only reach by glitch jumpng?
With that logic Oblivion also railroads you since some areas have invisible walls to stop you from sequence breaking and Fallout 3 has them in DC because consoles so it also railroads you.
By your own logic, there is objectively no case where Oblivion and Fallout 3 are not railroad experiences but New Vegas is, except the case where your issue is simply a skill issue.
I thonk you have me confused with another anon. I have not mentioned enemies at all.
> By your logic.
By the logic of the strawman you created you mean .
You are giving him hell though so good for you.
>By the logic of the strawman you created you mean .
Not really. He says invisible walls existing at all means the game is railroaded. Unless you're saying his argument was actually "the existence of an invisible wall outside of the border of the square grid of the overworld or dungeons in Oblivion or the ones in DC in Fallout 3 means the entire game is a straight railroad" but of course that would be stupid because that would be an incredibly retarded argument a child would make because then the definition might as well just be "if I say it's a railroad it is one even if it's a flat open plane with no walls at all"
The edge of the world space is expected.
In the midflte of the map is unforgivable.
>In the midflte of the map is unforgivable
Good thing those aren't in NV then, except at the top of otherwise impassible cliffs that you have to break the game engine to climb. Unlike Fallout 3's which you can just walk into. But according to you, that game isn't railroaded.
> Good thing they don't exist except where they do.
Consider your concession accepted.
> Broken geometry
So it was a courtesy on Obsidians part to protect you from their shoddy programming.
*Bethesda's shoddy programming
Bethesda never had to put invisible walls in the middle of the map to protect you from bad geometry.
Yeah, I forget Fallout 3 exists too sometimes.
Good then I'm glad we agree Oblivion is railroaded because some of the mountains require you to walk around them.
Once again if you want to continue your beatdown of the strawman you created there is no need to involve me.
Good thing he doesn't bring up invisible walls in the middle of the map. You are having a devil of a time with that.mn8t8s
I never defended the forced tutorial . It also has nothing to do with being railroaded.
Your claim is literally that being forced into a half an hour of unskippable cutscenes and tutorials is not railroading but having invisible walls on the boundaries of the map is, so yes you did defend the tutorials.
That is your take.
My take isinvisible walls in themiddle of the map can only exist to railroad the player. That hasn't changed. It is the only point I have made.
That strawman you created is taking a beating though
>That is your take
Nope, it's straight from your mouth, unless you're admitting that Oblivion is railroaded. If you do, then what I said would be a strawman. Until you do, it's not.
If you can't dazzle em with brilliance baffle em with bullshit.
you are being intentionally obtuse if you don't see how late game enemies directly next to the starting area is railroading
>you are being intentionally obtuse if you don't see how late game enemies directly next to the starting area is railroading
I got past them just fine, so did millions of other people.
If the only barrier keeping you from leaving the "railroad" is "the game is too hard" then your argument is not "the game railroads you," your argument is "the game railroads me," which is entirely different. Although it's also true, New Vegas did railroad you, and many other people who were bad at videogames.
it's not hard at all to cheese the shitty ai with terrain, it's nothing to be proud of.
Sneaking past enemies is cheesing AI now?
Blowing resources on killing high level enemies is cheesing AI now?
Where will the goalposts be moved next? Are you going to claim that quest locations like the hoover dam offices being inaccessible is railroading now?
NV is fag game for people that want to map their retarded irl politics onto the insipid factions, take oblivion any day, easiest choice of my life
The beginning of Oblivion is such a fucking drag.
>tfw nu Ganker will come up with the most retarded arguments imaginable to say FNV is a bad game
I will never understand why the newcomers to this site constructed an entire identity on shitting on a 13 year old game.
No idea what the fuck you're talking about. If you take the stealth boy from Joe Cobb (you meet him within 15 minutes of starting) you can go directly to New Vegas. No walls, no railroading.
No that was actually great. Makes it more like Pokémon map design which is the best kind of open world level design. Guided by difficult enemies that you can level up to beat or find skips/exploits if you really want to.
Fan of Pokemon and New Vegas.
new vegas does have level scaling, did you even play the game?
New Vegas just copied Fallout 3's leveling system, tho. Obsidian didn't make any changes to it.
i dont recall the level of the cazadores or deathclaws changing level.
then replay it or read the wiki
new vegas has level scaling, morrowind has it too. they're just done well so it doesnt feel like shit
I dont know what todd was thinking when he made oblivion
Actually anon powerleveling speechcraft is objectively the best way to play Oblivion because of scaling, you'd know this if you actually played the game.
>As long as you don't powerlevel meme skills like speechcraft
Right just dont use the non combat skills in your rpg and you wuill be fine bro.
>it was made that way so you could explore anywhere from the start.
Thats lame because it means there are no scary places you need to work up to tackle. There are no harder areas with greater challenge and greater reward.
bethesda games are catered to the worst "rpg fans" and bethesda isnt that smart to begin with, its amazing they got as popular as they did, i9 think its 90% because they filled a niche no one else and and 10% because of jeremy soul.
>There are no harder areas with greater challenge and greater reward.
Yes, there are. Lake Rumare is the lowest level part of the province, with rats, crabs and wolves making up most of the leveled lists. As you move away the lists are made of stronger enemies.
And all of those areas will be filled with the weakest enemy on the list, which will be at worst an imp or something else that a level 1 character will have no trouble with at all. Because Oblivion literally does not have variable difficulty whatsoever. The entire game is always the same difficulty at all times no matter what.
Yes, at level 1 they'll spawn Imps, but once you level up they're swapped with will-o-the-wisps and others. Meanwhile, Lake Rumare stays at lower level. I believe the Nibenay Basin also stays at low level, but I haven't looked at the spawns there.
>but once you level up they're swapped with will-o-the-wisps and others.
Once you reach a level where those are no longer a challenge yeah.
>b-but silver equipment
Silver equipment is much lower in the leveled lists than will-o-wisps are.
> Meanwhile, Lake Rumare stays at lower level
You can literally have level 50 skeleton champions spawn there, retard. Having a ceiling on *some* leveled spawns doesn't mean that the world has variable difficulty. If I want to sneak through a high level area as a challenge and/or for good loot I'm shit out of luck. The only high level items you can even get in Oblivion at level 1 are Fin Gleam and Umbra. Because one of those was placed in such a way that whatever janny they had cleaning up all the work left by designers who actually gave a shit about interesting rewards for exploration didn't notice that it wasn't a leveled item and the other is a quest item they mistakenly thought you'd turn in for the quest.
>oblivion bad because [contrived bullshit, skill issue, some book you didn't read claimed something contradicting the game you didn't play]
There's the entire thread. This is now an Oblivion appreciation thread.
>only game in the series with good spellcasting, good lockpicking, and Wes Johnson
Oblivion is fun but it needs so many mods the game at risk of imploding and there's no openob to bail it out unlike morrowind.
You need *one* leveling mod and *one* weather mod. Everything else is optional.
>BRO YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE!
>hmm do i go to X dungeon or Y dungeon?
Scenario A: You pick X dungeon
>enemies scaled to your level
>for completing the dungeon you get a chest with loot that scales to your level
Scenario B: You pick X dungeon
>enemies scaled to your level
>for completing the dungeon you get a chest with loot that scales to your level
Bethesda went overboard trying to sanitize the game so no players decision could inconvenience them. Its just boring. Its like they sanitized the game so none of your decisions matter, everything procedural and level scaled means it doesnt matter where you go and difficulty is in accidentally picking the wrong skill to level. Thankfully fallout 4 was somewhat better in this regard with some challenging areas, hand placed loots, and more meaningful character building. Starfield could go either way, im looking forward to seeing what its like as it is a passion project.
When will developers learn that part of the fun of "you can go anywhere" is going to an area that you're clearly not ready for to challenge yourself or sneak around and loot
i thought in-game explanation was it got remade by a god or something, and at one point WAS a crazy jungle
God, can Ganon just stay dead already? How many times can you rehash the same plot?
At this point the plot is the only reason it's still a Zelda game
Deforestation is s real thing, if they can build stone buildings they can cut down trees.
Huh, I didn't realize that roman-era technology was capable of deforesting an entire rainforest then also altering the climate from tropical to temperate and simultaneously replacing all the trees with temperate ones.
Even bronze age technology is more than enough for deforestation. I too wish jungle Cyrodiil stayed but Talos CHIMing it away is at least a fun explanation.
Ah yes, all those bronze age societies that converted a tropical environment into a temperate one like uhhh
>but Talos CHIMing it away is at least a fun explanation.
Yeah it would be if it hadn't been retconned.
>Talos CHIMing it away
Or you know, The Warp in the West could've played a bigger role in that?
These bros had magic you double elf. Their ascended godking was prochecied 1000 years ago by a cyborg knight or some shit and he fucked an invading snek-people army from Fantasy Nippon Across The Sea into submission along with his sister-mother-wives.
>These bros had magic you double elf.
Yeah but they no longer used it to get rid of the jungle, that was retconned.
the worst retcon is turning leon from the OG re4 to remake 4.
This right here
At least you could say that endless jungle was unfeasible but this shit has no excuse
TES VI will be on the moon
i like how everyone is arguing about railroading with their own personal definitions. please define your terms autismos
Well according to the autist arguing about it, every Bethesda game is a railroad because you can't walk in a direct straight line from point A to point B immediately in any of them.
What you often see in games are miniaturizations of a game world. So for example, there are only 7 houses in a "city", but lore wise, there could be hundreds. It's like a
to continue, it's like when 4 players defeated the hordes of hell, when game lore wise, it was an army of barbarians, paladins, mages, etc. that drove back the forces of the abyss.
a miniaturized jungle wouldn't look like a temperate forest
It was never a jungle, you're just a secondary that doesn't know any better. The actual retcon was performed by the hack Kirkbride, whom you are hopelessly in gay homosexual love with.
when they removed levitation after morrowind, saying it was a law in place to stop mages from using it
Fuck off retard, the majority of the map is exactly that, dense jungles and fertile valleys. But they decided having the entire map be that would be as boring and soulless as morrowind, so they gave us regional variety, like the savanahs around Anvil, and snowy Bruma.
this is the only correct answer and fuck 343
it's utterly insane how well Halo 3's graphics have aged. it wasn't treated like anything special at the time because it used a more "traditional" renderer than COD and Crysis in the same year. the new wave all had global real-time shadows while Halo 3 had everything baked or "faked" (precalculated shadowmaps for important dynamic objects only). yet 16 years later we're finally getting close to the lighting fidelity of Halo 3 and Mirror's Edge (except with real-time solutions) and as a result the best looking games now look closer to Halo 3 than any of the "more modern" engines that took over during 7th and early 8th gen. if you play it on a newer Xbox or on PC Halo 3 looks better than Infinite and WAY better than Reach, 4 and 5 in most scenes and that's just a baffling backwards trend. how could so many graphics programmers and all manner of visual artists get it so wrong for such a long time? it's wild how circular ideas of "technical improvement" lead people astray from their natural perception of visual realism. devs collectively sacrificed cohesive LIGHTING to get more detailed textures and shadows and to slap garish SSAO in every corner, when these things usually made games look less believable. but hey, it's the NEW FEATURE so we have to have it and then dial it up to 10 to show off that we have it. what a blunder.
This is very true. Halo 3 looks so much better than infinite it's not even funny.
Maybe the author of the book lied?
If you came from Cyrodil would you tell the Dunmer how great it was? They made it sound like a shit hole so the Dunmer wouldn't want to move there.
both of the pics are from Oblivion though?
FUCK skyward sword
How is this a retcon?
SS takes place before minish cap
did you not finish MC?
the green hat is a gift from ezlo
It's not the same hat in the other games though? Just because he got 1 hat that's like the others in one game doesn't mean that he couldn't get a similar or identical hat before or after that point. If that was the case minish cap link would be the only one with a hat
Like in OOT he gets one of the hats because the Kokiri were wearing it he didn't get the same exact hat from minish cap. It's just a style of hat that exists in their world. It's not a stretch to say that the knights used them as part of their uniforms before minish cap took place
There was New vegas in Fallout 1 already but only ruins
This fucked over fallout lore completely
thats old vegas
If you lined up the actual ingame map with a real map you'd realize that neither game takes place that far into nevada. New Vegas is off to the southeast of the northern edge of fallout 1s map. Even in fallout 2 which covers a lot more it's still too far west. You can use Death Valley on a real map as an approximate reference for the farthest irl point east that they go and Las Vegas is even farther east than that
Mojave and Vegas is right next to NCR capital and the Hub
Fallout lore is just a joke
I was just pointing out that FO2s closest point on the map is still hundreds of miles from where Las Vegas actually is while also being across an even worse wasteland than trying to cross the entire desert on foot today. The initial post was implying it should be brought up when there's literally no reason for it to even be mentioned. Obviously they had to "retcon" it in but even if the lore was established back then it wouldn't have mattered. New Vegas itself would have no relevance in the plots of FO1 or FO2
the key lore part of FO1 is that the core region area suffers from water shortages, and the Hub's water merchants who have secured unspoiled water tanks after the merchant war have economic power in the core region.
But very close to the core region, there was Vegas, Mojave, and Lake Mead which is filled with clear, clean water that was not nuke contaminated thanks to Mr.House
What the hell did everyone's struggle in FO1 mean?
We call it shit lore
>These people in a region hundreds of miles away would all magically know about all of that
>They'd also totally have the means and organization to transport this water by taking it by force from locals and transport it again back over the hundreds of miles of dangerous waste and desert to their home region
>You the player would be interested in this despite the fact that you already knew of a potentially much faster and already suggested method of the water chip... just because
Was it even mentioned where the water merchants of the hub even got their water from? I'm fairly confident that they never claimed what the source was. What makes you think that the early water barons weren't doing something like that? Anyways like I said it wouldn't have fucking mattered in the time of FO1 or 2. It makes total sense that the first people to rediscover the region were NCR scouts during a very aggressive expansionist campaign. There'd be no reason to look that far otherwise
even Chrs Avellone admitted Vegas city was retconned
everything in the Episode Ardyn DLC for FFXV
>Whats the worst retcon youve ever seen in a game?
In Elder Scrolls? The Warp in the West hands down
Outside Elder Scrolls? Chrono Cross: Crono and his friends technically failed
What they did with Penelope in thieves in time. The few people I knew who did give it a chance all universally thought it came out of left field and killed what little potential the game may have had.
Also pic related I guess now that I'm thinking about it. KH2 was already stretching the plot they had made thin and the xehanort trilogy was already wrapped up completely with nowhere to go so BBS literally retroactively added centuries of continuity in new characters, concepts, locations, etc to keep the plot going
probably something in WoW.
even Classic, TBC, and Wrath had some pretty heinous retcons.
WoW retcons its own retcons so yeah.
jungles are hard, small indie studio pls understand