In that case I think i would pick Swine over carmack.
But, in the years after a lot of games with good graphics would show up, so, making a good looking game isnt everything to pick the best programmer, otherwise, Crysis 1 developers should win that prize.
Also, as
he was standing on the shoulders of giants. before wolfenstein/doom there were no 3d engines AFIAK (okay, 2.5 to be fair)
also bear in mind the performance carmack was able to get from doom on really shitty hardware (cpu/ram) was pretty remarkable.
said, carmack made doom run in very shitty computer for the time it was released.
Carmack is probably the single best programmer to have ever been in the vidya industry
Sweeny has a sub-par storefront that can't even implement a shopping cart and is also a hypocritical moron.
One makes bloat every time, UE5 potentially being the exception if it ever makes it to a real game using all the tools as intended (ps3 is the most powerful console, please someone prove it for me?). The other is the best corner cutter coder on the planet next to maybe Chris Sawyer.
I can listen to John Carmack describe the efficiency of multi rotational microwaves for hours before realizing I dont have one.
It's just not as impressive tech wizardry as what came afterwards. It was a nice solution for the time, but as PCs advanced, such techniques didn't become as necessary.
that attitude is how shitty bloat gets introduced.
programming for lean requirements vs brute forcing shit because you assume the user will have infinite amounts of ram or available cpu cycles
guys like carmack are from a different age altogether, efficiency was a very high priority (if not THE priority). nowadays you see a lot of pajeet codemonkeys who'll import 15 different fricking frameworks just to convert an int timestamp to datetime.
I'm not sure how you took that meaning. There are a lot of techniques and tricks you could pull off to get extra juice out of old hardware, but they're not necessarily transferable to modern day, either due to change in technologies or hardware, or simply better options becoming available.
Like, the smooth scrolling on IBM PCs that was mentioned? That was achieved thanks to one of the features on the EGA card. It was good for the time, but you wouldn't use the same method today, because graphics cards have radically changed since those days.
oh, i wasn't referring to any technique or algo in particular; more the overall dedication to wringing every bit of performance from low end hardware.
i don't think you see nearly as much of that today; now it seems >shit it out as quickly as possible, there's a board meeting next friday, we need a demo >we'll just up the system requirements to compensate
You generally need to blame such things on management, and partially the market demand. There are sectors where performance and bug-freeness are key, but gaming isn't one of them, because audiences just want their bigger and better games fast. Fast and good don't quite go hand in hand, if we're talking performance related matters.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Fast and good don't quite go hand in hand, if we're talking performance related matters.
And by this I mean pic related.
carmack fixed some weird memory leak the entire other team couldn't fix in like one night and you can run doom on a fricking calculator based on how efficiently he got it to run by doing shit like
Was it ever discovered who the original author of the fast inverse square root algorithm was?
where he turns what would be a memory intensive function into an easy one
Yes >The algorithm was often misattributed to John Carmack, but in fact the code is based on an unpublished paper by William Kahan and K.C. Ng circulated in May 1986. The original constant was produced from a collaboration between Cleve Moler and Gregory Walsh, while they worked for Ardent Computing in the late 1980s.
Also the method itself was invented by sir Isaac Newton in 1669.
Yes >The algorithm was often misattributed to John Carmack, but in fact the code is based on an unpublished paper by William Kahan and K.C. Ng circulated in May 1986. The original constant was produced from a collaboration between Cleve Moler and Gregory Walsh, while they worked for Ardent Computing in the late 1980s.
Also the method itself was invented by sir Isaac Newton in 1669.
The impressive part isn't the method itself but putting this kind of "sciency" stuff into a video game, which was unheard of back then. BSP, which is the revolutionary tech behind Doom, was known since 1969 but Carmack was the first one who dug out the research papers and decided to put it in vidya code.
Yes. They were, are, I guess, amazing programmers.
oh, i wasn't referring to any technique or algo in particular; more the overall dedication to wringing every bit of performance from low end hardware.
i don't think you see nearly as much of that today; now it seems >shit it out as quickly as possible, there's a board meeting next friday, we need a demo >we'll just up the system requirements to compensate
And also: >by the time this is released, nvidia's new card is already launched, so let's aim for that one
long story short you got optimized things like lighting, reflection, and ai pathing without resorting to needing more hardware. its optimization at its finest.
computer graphics use a lot of inverse square root math millions of times per second
this function is a really hacky way of getting a "good enough" approximation of the needed values and bypassing a lot of the traditional calculation, increasing performance drastically
they are exploiting the way memory is stored and then doing some weird short hand calculus thing newton invented because he didn't have a calculator to save the computer tons of resources while having a less than a fifth of a percent error
carmack is a better programmer but tim outmaneuvered id completely but understanding the actual vidya business rather than simply being an engine savant
>interviewer: so mr. carmack, what do you think of <new graphics thing> >carmack: *75 minute enthusiastic explanation of technical things*
that's why i like carmack
Sweeny is probably about as good and maybe even better but he's less creative. He's one of those guys who never did something until he saw someone else do it and he was often able to do it better but Sweeny never didn't inspire people the way Carmack did.
Carmack. Also, he supported the idea to open source doom and quake engines. So you have tons of people modding out the games without any fear of lawsuits.
Both of them are pretty cool in that they're still hands on putting in work on actual product. Sweeney wrote code even for Unreal 4. Sucks that game development is less and less lead by actual programmers and engineerings rather than product development and business people. I feel like that change is part of what lead Carmack to tap out.
>Pic unrelated
man i can practically taste the seethe of the commie that made that. they really hate how game theory demonstrates their fundamental malice
what?
obviously carmack; is this even a real question?
sweenye made unreal and it has better graphics than quake.
i don't know anything about sweeney. did he actually single handedly make the early unreal engines?
he was standing on the shoulders of giants. before wolfenstein/doom there were no 3d engines AFIAK (okay, 2.5 to be fair)
also bear in mind the performance carmack was able to get from doom on really shitty hardware (cpu/ram) was pretty remarkable.
In that case I think i would pick Swine over carmack.
But, in the years after a lot of games with good graphics would show up, so, making a good looking game isnt everything to pick the best programmer, otherwise, Crysis 1 developers should win that prize.
Also, as
said, carmack made doom run in very shitty computer for the time it was released.
>Crysis 1 developers should win that prize.
Tiago Sousa has Carmack's job now.
Yeah how does one even wonder about this. What the frick?
Carmack is probably the single best programmer to have ever been in the vidya industry
Sweeny has a sub-par storefront that can't even implement a shopping cart and is also a hypocritical moron.
Chad Jaw vs Onions Jaw
post the dog
Neither.
Carmack's latest engine is a fricking mess.
"latest engine". I wish he was still in charge. Cant go around blaming bill gates for windows 11
One makes bloat every time, UE5 potentially being the exception if it ever makes it to a real game using all the tools as intended (ps3 is the most powerful console, please someone prove it for me?). The other is the best corner cutter coder on the planet next to maybe Chris Sawyer.
I can listen to John Carmack describe the efficiency of multi rotational microwaves for hours before realizing I dont have one.
No one really mentions how Carmack invented the method for smooth scrolling in 2D games on IBM PCs.
And he did that when he was like 20.
It's just not as impressive tech wizardry as what came afterwards. It was a nice solution for the time, but as PCs advanced, such techniques didn't become as necessary.
that attitude is how shitty bloat gets introduced.
programming for lean requirements vs brute forcing shit because you assume the user will have infinite amounts of ram or available cpu cycles
guys like carmack are from a different age altogether, efficiency was a very high priority (if not THE priority). nowadays you see a lot of pajeet codemonkeys who'll import 15 different fricking frameworks just to convert an int timestamp to datetime.
I'm not sure how you took that meaning. There are a lot of techniques and tricks you could pull off to get extra juice out of old hardware, but they're not necessarily transferable to modern day, either due to change in technologies or hardware, or simply better options becoming available.
Like, the smooth scrolling on IBM PCs that was mentioned? That was achieved thanks to one of the features on the EGA card. It was good for the time, but you wouldn't use the same method today, because graphics cards have radically changed since those days.
oh, i wasn't referring to any technique or algo in particular; more the overall dedication to wringing every bit of performance from low end hardware.
i don't think you see nearly as much of that today; now it seems
>shit it out as quickly as possible, there's a board meeting next friday, we need a demo
>we'll just up the system requirements to compensate
You generally need to blame such things on management, and partially the market demand. There are sectors where performance and bug-freeness are key, but gaming isn't one of them, because audiences just want their bigger and better games fast. Fast and good don't quite go hand in hand, if we're talking performance related matters.
>Fast and good don't quite go hand in hand, if we're talking performance related matters.
And by this I mean pic related.
me
Can someone dumb down just how good Carmack was, I heard he's a wizz but I can't comprehend why that's the case
carmack fixed some weird memory leak the entire other team couldn't fix in like one night and you can run doom on a fricking calculator based on how efficiently he got it to run by doing shit like
where he turns what would be a memory intensive function into an easy one
Was it ever discovered who the original author of the fast inverse square root algorithm was?
Yes
>The algorithm was often misattributed to John Carmack, but in fact the code is based on an unpublished paper by William Kahan and K.C. Ng circulated in May 1986. The original constant was produced from a collaboration between Cleve Moler and Gregory Walsh, while they worked for Ardent Computing in the late 1980s.
Also the method itself was invented by sir Isaac Newton in 1669.
The impressive part isn't the method itself but putting this kind of "sciency" stuff into a video game, which was unheard of back then. BSP, which is the revolutionary tech behind Doom, was known since 1969 but Carmack was the first one who dug out the research papers and decided to put it in vidya code.
Michael Abrash and John Carmack were at the forefront of that.
Yes. They were, are, I guess, amazing programmers.
And also:
>by the time this is released, nvidia's new card is already launched, so let's aim for that one
what's threehalfs? I thought you had to go to thailand for that kind of thing
explain to me like im a little dumb baby what this does exactly
long story short you got optimized things like lighting, reflection, and ai pathing without resorting to needing more hardware. its optimization at its finest.
computer graphics use a lot of inverse square root math millions of times per second
this function is a really hacky way of getting a "good enough" approximation of the needed values and bypassing a lot of the traditional calculation, increasing performance drastically
they are exploiting the way memory is stored and then doing some weird short hand calculus thing newton invented because he didn't have a calculator to save the computer tons of resources while having a less than a fifth of a percent error
Hats off to those who can understand or even have a passion for this tech mumbo jumbo.
Carmack by far
sweeney is the king of brute force programing. there's a reason UE is such a bloat.
Sweeney made ZZT and that was the first game engine I used.
How did he get from this...
Last good video game
... to this
Holee shit I remember both of these.
carmack is a better programmer but tim outmaneuvered id completely but understanding the actual vidya business rather than simply being an engine savant
I am actually really mad that this question was asked. Irrationally mad.
so you have the other one where he's laying on the couch talking about Google rewriting their os for him?
>interviewer: so mr. carmack, what do you think of <new graphics thing>
>carmack: *75 minute enthusiastic explanation of technical things*
that's why i like carmack
sovl
28" 1920x1080@85 monitor in 1995. what a time.
it must have required at least two men to move it
I was just going to ask, even with the weird camera angle, that looks suspiciously like a widescreen monitor.
Sweeny is probably about as good and maybe even better but he's less creative. He's one of those guys who never did something until he saw someone else do it and he was often able to do it better but Sweeny never didn't inspire people the way Carmack did.
carmack modded even his own car, he is on another level
Daikatana should tell you all you need to know
romero plz go.
why is he like that?
if there ever was a guy who needs a fricking beard
Carmack. Also, he supported the idea to open source doom and quake engines. So you have tons of people modding out the games without any fear of lawsuits.
carmack is better at algorithms, tim is better at engineering
Tim hasn't engineered anything except better systems to suck chinese dick in the last 20 years
lol fricking midge
no wonder he killed his cat, it was taller than him
Both of them are pretty cool in that they're still hands on putting in work on actual product. Sweeney wrote code even for Unreal 4. Sucks that game development is less and less lead by actual programmers and engineerings rather than product development and business people. I feel like that change is part of what lead Carmack to tap out.
Pic unrelated
>Pic unrelated
man i can practically taste the seethe of the commie that made that. they really hate how game theory demonstrates their fundamental malice