Who is the worst represented character in Smash and why is it him? Posted on May 20, 2023 by Anonymous
so glad smash is literally dead now
lost all your sponsors
lost all your tournies
lost all your players to sf6
get FUCKED kid diddlers
Don’t forget Tekken 8 and that New Mortal Kombat, also Sakurai said this in his latest video on Brawl
>lost all your players to sf6
>playing other games
good one. they simply stopped playing.
Based, but I'm happiest about them
>losing all your sponsors
>losing all your tournies
Glad Nintendo is wrecking them, kid diddlers can get fucked. I also hate smash compfags the most so this brings a smile to my face
Also lost players to Mario (Kart), Zelda, and Pokemon
Smash tournies should have stayed grassroots. The shit they pulled to gain Nintendo approval, trying to be gay E-Sports shit, including killing Project M, only for it to backfire HARD is well deserved.
behead all pedophile morons
so pedos of other races are fine?
I wish this was true, but they are like cockroaches
All that shit only happened in shartmerica. The game is thriving elsewhere.
Classic Wario specifically
Wario is probably the only one that gives OP a run for his money. Smash Wario isn't a good representation of ANY version of Wario, classic or Wario Ware. I don't know WHAT he's supposed to be other than just LE FUNNY FART MAN. For Classic representation you could give him shoulder charge, his various hats from the OG Wario Land game, and his various powers/outfits from the later titles. Or, if they wanted to give him Warioware representation, he could pull random shit from his Microgames. Current Smash Wario is just weird, and not in a good way
If they really wanted a True Warioware Rep, they could’ve done Ashley and in pic related the left moves pull from one of her microgames, sauce here
>If they really wanted a True Warioware Rep, they could’ve done Ashley
Jimmy T, 9 Volt, maybe Penny
Wario actually does have his shoulder charge in Brawl and Ultimate. Smash 4 is the game where it's missing, because Sakurai genuinely didn't realize it was his single-most iconic attack and decided it wasn't a good fit for his forward smash, and replaced it with a generic punch in 4 without putting it anywhere else in his moveset.
>Current Smash Wario is just weird, and not in a good way
Current Wario is Wario World Wario with a dash of "Weird Mario" and he has some stuff from other material(Bike from Ware, Waft from Warioland Manuals). Some of his World stuff overlaps his Land stuff like the Shoulder Charge(his dash attack) and his Ground Pound(Down Throw).
His representation isn't all that great, but it is better than any fan game take has been.
Project M taking away the Bike and going full Land purist is garbage. Represent both Ware and Land or don't bother changing Wario at all.
I think they needed more grappling shit. Throwing is Wario's main thing besides the charge and grabbing/eating shit with his mouth is both bizarre and not even a Ware thing.
>Project M taking away the Bike and going full Land purist is garbage
i'm not even a land fanboy but by god do I enjoy punting people with the shoulder bash side B, it feels so good
same with spiking with his down air
Yeah, his brawl victory theme was fucking made up, and was later incorporated into actual Wario.
>his brawl victory theme was fucking made up
wrong, it's a segment of a song from the first stage of Wario-Land Shake It, a game that didn't release until a few months after Brawl released.
Jetpack from get it together
>Running animation and some A moves from project m
Keep the rest the same
The fact that there's no Warioland and Warioware reps outside of Ashley as an assist trophy really shows Sakurai just writes off Wario as a Mario character and not much else.
Which is nuts, when you consider that Wario has eight platformer games and ten WareWare games. That's a character with 18 games to their name, far more than most playable characters in Smash's roster has, and yet barely anything from those games got referenced in Smash Bros.
Fucking Pit and Palutena bring more from Uprising and yeah yeah yeah Sakurai worked on Uprising blah blah blah
To be fair, what else would you do with him? People bitch that all of Sonic's attacks turn him into a blue ball - you can't just have Pac man turn into classic Pac and "WAKA WAKA" everyone for every move.
>pull from other classic Namco games
Not a good representation of Pac
god i fucking hate sonic (in smash)
I’d argue Pac-Man has it worse than Sonic, as he at least has his core ability across all the 3D games: The Homing Attack.
Fuckers couldn’t even give Pac-Man his iconic bounce attack from his platformers.
Actual fans wanted a close quarters hit and run character with a moveset based on Pac-Man World, Not “Namco Zoner Mr. G&W with some very surface-level arcade Pac-Man references thrown in”
It becomes even worse in hindsight now that PMW got a proper remake, too.
I'm not even mad about the actual character, they made the correct choice design wise
(Remember, we could have gotten the ghostly adventures abomination) and managed to craft a lot of quirky classic Namco references in his moveset while still making him feel like Pac-man.
The actual thing that bothers me Is the representation of the IP itself, literally everything else is underwhelming, Zero music tracks from games like the Pac-man world series and the championship edition series (seriously, how could Tekken get the techno bops but not Pac-man?), And of course, the biggest offender: Fucking Pac-Land, like, why? And Even worse that they decided to port THAT one to Ultimate instead of the far more superior and Iconic Pac-Maze.
Many things about how they decided to represent Pac-Man bother me, but the stage choice was just incomprehensibly baffling
Pac-Man deserves good movement options.
Sakurai HAS and is OBLIGATED to talk to the publisher of said character for their input on the move set and any guidelines if necessary. Bamco didn’t care and let him do whatever
where he had to get specific guidelines from Nintendo to make him what he became in smash. He mentioned this before with FE and Intelligent systems
I’m pretty Bamco purposefully mandated World not to be explicitly mentioned or referenced, considering they don’t even namedrop the game at all in the Smash 4 trophy for his house which references his “20th anniversary”, which PMW1 even specifically was made to tie into.
Pac-Man without dash dancing is an insult to the maze games.
There’s a running gag meme of what if Sonic’s Down Smash was spawning 2 Flickies on his sides
Pac-Man’s down Smash is literally the equivalent to this lol
It’s legitimately retarded.
>Pac-Man’s down Smash is literally the equivalent to this lol
that's the joke you mongoloid
Smash Flash is still getting updates?
That's Crusade, a different Smash fangame
However Smash Flash 2 is getting updates. Latest info shows almost half the cast getting revamped sprites. Likely quality improved thanks to time spent on Fraymakers.
I was pretty sure the sprites got updated before Fraymakers
Well who knows when but most of the updates revealed were recent, long before the focus on Fraymakers was made their primal focus.
https://twitter.com/SmashFlashDevs/status/1660022359237992449 was just posted today.
Unironically, mods fix all of these, and You WILL like it.
Meh, I count Mario Bros. or Wrecking Crew
I just wish he had some of world’s moves, that’s it
Doesn't he have the flip kick for up aeriel
>Fire Emblem is on the same level of iconography as fucking Pokemon and even more than Zelda
>Persona (not SMT) is on Sonic's level of iconography, also Joker/Persona not having much history with Nintendo besides some 3DS games
>Bayonetta is a Nintendo-owned property that won the ballot and wasn't just publisher marketing, rather a cheap cop out
>Min-min and all ARMS characters are "main characters"
Sakurai has no real integrity. He's a slave to his own product and its overlords.
That being said, some of these are absolutely his fault.
>Wario being evil
This one baffles me. It's like he literally knew nothing about Wario and took his name at face value (Wari + Mario = Evil Mario). This is honestly disgusting and irresponsible for someone who wants to "represent each franchise faithfully".
>Years of Ridley being too big for smash
Let's be real. He just didn't want to do it for some weird reason, or Nintendo wasn't pushing hard enough for them. So he came up with a bold faced lie that I'm fucking shocked no one has called out in interviews.
This still pisses me off to this day. Three games later and we're STILL left with this shitty, uninteresting moveset. There's so much to fucking pull from and yet he does nothing. Why? Do they need Sega's approval? What's the reason? Does he genuinely believe it's good?
Probably the worst offender of all. Nintendo wants to push it. Fine. Fuck it. They want their sales. But swords users... So many. And they're not even super diverse. You have this franchise with many weapons and classes and they just go for the genetic lords, no real fan favorites, just selling their souls out to appease Nintendo for a quick buck. I still remember all the outcry from the Corrine trailer. I'm surprised there weren't death threats or something. But this aspect of Smash is forever sour in my mind.
3 consecutive games, still no signs of another sonic rep. Let alone the remixes...
Sonic still somehow feels rushed after so many years
Don’t forget the fact Jason Griffith gave him unique Smash-specific voice recordings for Brawl but they couldn’t be half-assed to get RCS to even get back in the recording booth, so they just reused lines from games already out during the time.
To be fair, almost every character who has been in the series since Brawl have had their Brawl lines recycled for Smash4 and Ultimate. I hate it too, but it's hardly a Sonic specific issue
Probably because Roger is part of the union and Nintendo is stingy with members of the union, it’s also why Cloud and Sephiroth only speak Japanese and speaking of FF…
I'm assuming it's actually because they didn't record new clips for the Japanese actor, so they didn't bother getting anything new in English.
Honestly, I actually preferred Jason's Griffith's performance of RCS.
Most people do, unless you meant the reverse
>He just didn't want to do it for some weird reason
He doesn't care about Metroid so he does the bare minimum with it
Same with any other underrepresented franchise
>two of them before Ridley even got in
At least Samus and Zero Suit actually resemble their character's moveset somewhat, even if in a very barebones way. Dark Samus' assist trophy was closer to the actual character than her playable appearance
Yeah, Echo fighters was a wasted concept entirely too.
>some are basically glorified outfits while others have differences
>Isabelle doesn't even count as one for some reason
doesn't even count as one for some reason
She shouldn't, they were right to call her one. She has her own moves
Awwww the doggie is so cute!
I’m still pissed that they stopped making echo fighters after ken. If they are so easy to make, why not make more
Same with Ridley too. When he was a boss in Brawl he acted more like Ridley than as a fighter. Doesn't even have his signature tail pogo
The pogo tail looks utterly retarded in 3D. Why are you gays so obsessed with it? Ridley never does it in Prime rightfully because it would look fucking stupid.
Well, imagine if Mario didn't have his ground pound. It's an iconic part of the character
And yet it didn't appear in games he was in for over a decade, and still has yet to appear again. The ground pound on the other hand has rarely missed a mainline game since it appeared. Regardless, it's not a Mario specific move, and Yoshi, and arguably Bowser have it instead in Smash.
They’ll probably make Krystal generic as shit then, then again her Staff can do more than just shoot ice, Isaac can do more than just summon big hands.
Wish we got more upgraded AT
>He doesn't care about Metroid
Because there's hardly any real characters to pull from it. Aside from Samus and Ridley, who else is there besides generic hunters?
Ever notice how series that debuted with 2 characters end up getting the most fighter representation, Mario and Pokémon for obvious reasons, Fire Emblem just happened to get stupidly lucky, it even happened again in Smash 4 where they revealed both Robin and Lucina (while cucking Chrom at the time lol) for the Base Roster, then when DLC became a thing they always got their recent shill picks.
It's gross how he tried to play off Lucina as an "Echo Fighter" instead of a clone. Like be genuine for once in your fucking life, man. Call it what it is. People might get pissed, but at least you'd be honest.
Simon could easily get the Marth treatment as time goes on.
Simon Belmont with a Trevor Belmont (Curse of Darkness Design) Echo Fighter
Richter Gets a few more changes and gets a Julius Belmont Echo Fighter
Then they could add Leon Belmont with his Lament of Innocence Moveset
Alucard and Soma too
I also blame Corrin for this shit, because if Elma got into Smash instead people would get interested in playing XBX and would beg for it to get ported like they did with the Persona guy.
People were already portbegging P5 before the Smash reveal, retard. Smash DLC was not going to save XBX.
>Meta Knight is Kirby's archenemy
If you don't know anything about Kirby then I could see how you'd think he's just "Evil Kirby" or something.
>Meta Knight is Kirby's Archenemy
honestly he should have stayed this way. Meta Knight was way more interesting as a character when it would be mysterious why he would antagonize Kirby one day and then help him out the next.
He's so lame now, he only fights Kirby due to brainwashing and every other time they fight is pure non-canon fanservice with no reasoning behind it, otherwise he's solely just another of Kirby's allies. Fucking sucks what they've done to him.
Post your never evers, here’s mine:
You just know they would give her a puffy cameltoe
would main with the maria alt
Banana waddle dee
Yes, Sakurai acknowledged the Digimon v-pet as a "game" in his channel
He's fucking in
If another game happens I fully expect a Hunter to be a character but not a monster. Plus it would be a heavy which makes it a based character choice by default
If only they had more time to include Ayumi as an actual fighter instead of a trophy.
Should Melee have been a 2002 game?
What would she even fucking do?
Fighting with her schoolbag I guess? That would be too funny.
>wHaT wOuLd X cHaRaCtEr EvEn Do?
Thank god I'm not the only person who hates this argument. Do these people just forget that R.O.B's moveset was entirely made up besides Gyro? He doesn't even use the Professor.
Glad it's basically gone out of style after Piranha Plant was added.
>he didn't have the ROB with the laser eyes and rocket thrusters
You missed out
Every Smash Fan needs to this once in their lives
I'm so glad they put WFT in the game. Changed my life for the better.
I remember some tumblr whales got pissed off at her
>the patron saint of thin privilege
fuck you, olimar is cool
Koei Tecmo character needs at least one appearance. I'm so shocked Smash doesn't have ninja characters aside Sheik and Greninja.
It would be Ryu, and You will like it.
Funny how the only KT representation is a girl with a camera assist trophy and an outsourced developed FE SlopHouses
Maybe one day a Gust character will be in the next Smash game.
Not as much of a never-ever as a couple of games ago, but still a long shot
I despise Sakurai's arrogance.
HE'S (not) IN
A couple more of my never evers in no particular order are JC Denton, Grovyle, Senator Armstrong, Raiden, the entire Dreemurr family, Isaac, V1, any L4D survivor, any TF2 merc, Gordon Freeman, Freddy Fazbear, Papyrus, Undyne, and the protagonist from EYE. Bonus round: figure out which ones I really like and which ones I think would be funny.
you need to be over 18 to post here.
Him and Porky.
At least I got K. Rool and Banjo
all those fucking fire emblem characters but not one rhythm heaven rep
My Never Ever is an echo fighter to another Never Ever.
I'm glad we got some random jrpg anime characters on two season passes instead of something unique like Goemon and Chibi Robo.
Least she got in as a spirit with a fight.
Too bad it was a mii swordfighter that looks nothing like her.
God I love Riesz! Very based pick! If Square were to ever make a Platform Fighter or Traditional 2D Fighter, keep pushing for Riesz!
At least one got in as a costume.
Travis Touchdown is absolutely dead after NH3, no way he is ever playable. After that Opa-Opa, Rugal, Arthur and Fulgore (but that might change if the Bamco KI rumors are true)
Any other answer besides Ganondorf or Sonic is wrong
Surprised nobody has brought up how most of Pac-Man’s music isn’t even from his own series. Only like, 3 tracks and two are basic remixes of the arcade start jingle, the other is the only Pac-Mania song in the game.
Nothing from World, Arrangement, Roll, Not even anything from Championship Edition.
I always see people cry about Pac-Man's moveset, but it honestly makes more sense for him to be representative of his arcade roots than to pull a bunch of moves from a couple platformers that released over twenty years ago. Arcade-centric maze gameplay is the default Pac-Man experience, after all.
That said, I do think they should have at least given him the butt bounce since I could see it being fun to use, at least more than the fire hydrant which feels like a random inclusion even if you have played Pac-Land.
I still don’t like how much of an excessive zoner Smash made him. The Hydrant also plays into that playstyle. If anything he should have been a close quarters combat character with a focus on a “hit and run” mentality.
It mirrors the gameplay loop and rhythm of his arcade games far better.
Imagine if Pac-Man was an Assist Trophy in the same manner like Bomberman, it could very well work like his Smash 4 Final Smash where he’s 8-bit and goes around in random directions eating players and that knocking them back, like the PAC Ghosts AT
He’d be generic as shit then. Also, Bomberman becoming an AT was arguably also a big monkey paw in it’s own right.
imo super smash flash 2's incorporation of bomberman is a good argument for why bomberman is better as an assist trophy than as a playable character
ie. his playstyle is shit boring and one-note
The original World was made by filthy gaijins too so of course Namco wouldn't want their mascot character pulling from non-Japanese sources in a 3rd party game.
So Namco is Xenophobic like Sega is with Sonic despite a majority of the better games being developed in America or worked on with Americans.
To add some ones that haven't already been mentioned
pac-man's fun to play so I don't care
sonic is fucking sad though, can't even get remixes outside of the 1 (one) they did way back in brawl.
the biggest problem with FE's representation is the first half of it is incredibly lazy (literally clones of clones) and by the time they realized this was an issue and started creating more diverse characters, they ran into the 1-2 punch of everyone already being sick of it and also them all being non-characters in the form of the stand-in avatar from whatever game came out that week. I don't want to give it too much shit for being blatant marketing since that goes back to melee and frankly applies to every character to some degree, but it just feels especially egregious with FE.
And also the fact that they kept adding more clones as recently as Chrom in Ultimate. Why?
>non-characters in the form of the stand-in avatar from whatever game came out that week
Just like it’s plaguing FE itself, it’s already plaguing Smash
You may have forgotten how many people were crying over Chrom not getting in during the Wii U days. Unlike the majority of FE, many were actually invested in Chrom getting in because Awakening was very popular at the time. It was an incredibly easy addition since 90% of the animations are reused. I think the model is even just a touched up version of the FS one. If the assets are available to quickly add one more, Sakurai seems to think it's better than adding nothing, see: Ganondorf in Melee.
If that’s the case why couldn’t we get Paula or Kumatora who are also part of Final Smashes? Is it because they’re not from FE?
It's probably because Chrom placed pretty high in the poll that was held asking people about what characters they wanted to see make the playable roster in a Smash game the most. Paula and Kumatora might not have placed high enough for them to get any consideration.
I hate Fire Emblem characters but I was really happy when they added Chrom. I just love the design and loved Awakening.
If I could I would remove every FE character except Chrom and Ike
>But not the only character who actually uses FE mechanics
I hate Robin. And adding avatars is stupid, I customised my Robin so I never saw that gay from Smash in my game
>I hate Robin
I'm not sure how someone would, if they like any of the other FE characters. Robin has 4 versions (guy/girl + Grima) and they're all good
But that's what they do, Thoron is more of sniping tool and fear tactic that you give up arcthunder to use. The Levin sword is their most dangerous tool, and thats a symbol of the grandmaster class. Hell they even have Nosferatu, a special dedicated to hard reads.
Nosferatu is way too inconsistent after landing, but yeah, you're right.
Smash made me hate him because he is one of my least favorite characters to play as
Robin is just…. Plain and Boring…. Aesthetically
Our first Magic user should’ve been Micaiah or even Celica with Pichu self damaging
Robin's spells should primarily be utility to augment her normals.
GIGANTIC LASER is dumb.
Can we stop this avatar shit? Can I just play as the protagonist of the game? Like jesus christ I'm tired of this self insert shit where this random character creator looking avatar ends up being more important somehow than the actual characters in the game.
Modern Fire Emblem eats shit
Robin is both the actual protagonist and has a consistent look/personality so those complaints don't really apply to him so much as it would to Corrin or Byleth
>Our first Magic user should’ve been Micaiah or even Celica with Pichu self damaging
It should have been a villain several games ago, but Ganondorffags would have thrown a fit
>Fire Emblem eats shit
It’s hard to explain but I just miss how Smash 4 handled his online
>For Glory and For Fun
>no GSP tryharding one-and-dones or cancerous game settings lumped together
>throw all that out the window in Ultimate
>Smash fans hate the Fire Emblem representation in Smash because the series is overrepresnted in terms of playable characters as well as half of those characters being Marth clones
>Fire Emblem fans hate the Fire Emblem representation in Smash because fan favourite characters like Lyn aren't playable, whilst shill picks like Corrin are playable
If there's another Smash game after Ultimate, the Fire Emblem rep needs to be completely overhauled
What's that, anon? You want Alear (Fire Emblem Sword Lord#24829493949) in the next Smash?
With a throwaway gimmick to justify their inclusion?
AND a stage?
While other franchises like F-Zero, Mother, Sonic and Kirby get no new content?
Say no more, you lucky dog!
I actually do think it'd be nice if Fire Emblem got more music, especially if we got some more music from the Jugdral games. Fire Emblem is only really overrepresented in terms of playable characters, it could be argued that the series is actually underrepresented in terms of items and spirits.
What items would they even have? Vulneraries? They already have a few health items. I guess something like the Devil Axe could be cool. Gives you 50% damage if you're unlucky. Or maybe the Fire Emblem itself. But these bros really are fucking over what is essentially a staple of Nintendo's history. It started out as an NES game and was popular in japan. It feels like an insult to the series to just not take its reps seriously, and I'm not even a huge fan of it.
Berserk staff would pretty cool
It’s hilarious it never got an item until Ultimate
and it’s another Sword, when the Beam Sword already existed, it just makes it feel redundant, the Chinese Waving Fan item died for this.
Marth, Ike, Robin, Byleth
Roy, maybe. At least significantly change his animations, if not their mechanics. Otherwise, axe him.
Chrom, Lucina, Corrin.
Preferably none, but maybe throw the FE fans a bone and add Lyn. Give her some stance switching mechanic (attacks change properties depending on whether she fights with a sheathed blade or drawn blade). We'll probably get the guy from the newest FE game, whatever they are. Anna makes some sense as an "Evergreen" fighter, in that she can constantly get her appearance and moveset updated as new games come out, but as far as mechanics I'm not sure what she would or should do.
Lyn is already in PMEX Remix
Why are people so obsessed with putting a stance mechanic on an FE character?
They should have used the original Ridley.
I like Pac-Man better as he is now rather than how any World fan tries to rework him. Genuinely pretty perfect for me as a Namco fan.
I just dislike his overly zoner playstyle and the lack of his arguably most iconic move aside from eating.
From a design standpoint, there is a problem that his most prominent "move" or "playstyle" in Smash centers a round a fire hydrant. A fire hydrant is NOT something you think of when you think of Pac-Man, nor is it anything closely associated with the character by mainstream audiences. And to add to that, it's not a particularly fun mechanic, neither for Pac nor his opponent. I'm glad you enjoy the character, but it was a divisive way to design the character to say the least.
The Fire Hydrant also makes him an inherent camper/zoner, even with the drawback that it can be used against him.
I’ve really grown to just dislike the choice of it over the Butt Bounce more and more.
Wario if we go moveset-wise. His moveset doesn't even represent Warioware properly all he has is his bike and Final Smash, I actually doubt the designers played any Wario game
im mad about the opposite for banjo
his kit perfectly represents him as a character but it is so mediocre
His kit is mostly an accurate representation of the games, but it’s clear that absolutely no thought went into how he would actually function in gameplay. The copy-pasted original moves (think fair and nair) are almost insulting in that they clearly don’t patch holes in the kit. You can’t create a character with cursed movement stats (bad air mobility is a death sentence) bundled with a kit that isn’t cohesive and expect it to be fun or effective.
I pushed the character as far as I could, even learning giga-autistic stuff like breegull blaster cancels, and he’s still not satisfying or reliable. I’ll always be salty that we waited so long for something so bad (in terms of competitive gameplay). Banjo has more than enough moves to pull from to make a better kit too, so it genuinely seems like the devs had a surface level understanding of the series and wanted to force a surprisingly lazy gimmick on the kit.
Check out HDR Banjo and Min Min they got great changes
Snake (still all explosives despite even Kirby using a gun now)
Dorf (director's stubbornness)
Wario (doesn't even need an explanation)
Kirby (director's stubbornness and personally? Fuck them adding "Smash" as a copy ability to lock Kirby into being stuck with this garbage)
Game and Watch (SJW whining ruined him)
>Ones that are fine but people still whine about
Sonic, his source is really just that shit. All he does is boost and spin
Joker, soulless self-insert isn't even a character. Almost his entire kit being ripped from other fighters matches his "personality" perfectly
Play more games
The only thing missing from Sonic is bouncing which surprise surprise, he spins. Just like everything else.
>Snake (still all explosives despite even Kirby using a gun now)
Snake is our true Bomberman if you really think about it
Thoughts on this revamped Ultimate Kirby Moveset?
I think it’s a breath of fresh air, I would love that new Kirby for Smash 6
Wheel being one of his moves already makes it better
>Tfw a fan literally makes a moveset more soulful than you, the creator
What the fuck?
It's just as bad for different reasons. Wheel should be a dash, not down smash. Fire being a tilt is also weird. It feels like they just slapped popular abilities over moves they didn't like instead of actually redoing Kirby's moveset properly.
Tfw Odyssey isn’t that relevant anymore, Ultimate really was the perfect time to incorporate Cappy into Mario’s Moveset
>Kirby if he was DLC
>wheel is down smash and not a dash attack
i am really not a fan of this "throw moves from [character]'s series of origin together in a moveset" that nu-smash has been doing alongside this fan moveset especially when they're just pulling out a lot of different items like kirby does
reminded me of nasb movesets where everyone was just pulling shit out their ass for every move and it was really incohesive
characters having generic punches and kicks that that suit them shouldn't be frowned on as much as they are but there should be a middle ground between the basic punches and kicks most pre-brawl movesets consist of and the "copy and paste moves from [character]'s series of origin" nu-smash does
>i don't like characters using moves and abilities they have in their games
Agreed, they should all be like Fox and Captain Falcon.
You really want a modern Captain Falcon where every special move has him summoning a car?
Which characters in Ultimate are like that?
thanks for the reply disingenuously misinterpreting what i said, retard
I hate how these new Smash-like developers have to outdo Sakurai in gimmicky bullshit, like "Let's give Lincoln a version of Ness's Down Smash that can be held indefinitely" or "Oh Gizmo's side-tilt has to be a chargeable projectile that inflicts burning damage upon a successful hit".
>Sonic, his source is really just that shit. All he does is boost and spin
Then why doesnt it have boost as a side b?
He is from a game called persona, where the entire concept is about using personas, leveling personas, fusing personas, and making friends for personas
So why isn't he using a persona to fight
Persona is like FE they’re both social (and or) dating sims
Joker stole Dante’s cool downward aerial gunshooting move and it looks really uncool when Joker uses it.
Joker is also the least deserving character to get in Smash, should’ve been Jack Frost and I don’t even fuck with SMT or Persona
>Custom Robo gets a Mii costume and a few spirits
>assist trophy doesn't even come back in Ultimate
I mean, at least the costume gives me some way to play as Ray, but I'm sad I'll never get to play the one character I want.
How would you adapt pic related doing him justice but not making him game breaking?
>Alastor and Ifrit, E&I and Shotgun
>Weapons are swappable with neutral B
>Implement pause combos in jab, jump cancels and DT as meter mechanic
Does picrel have the best-designed moveset in Smash?
I miss his voice in Brawl
I'd forgotten how much better it was.
It's why I just use the Leaf alts. It's so bad.
She's no better.
She's a little better.
That model isn't
I ain't lookin' at Leaf in the background, bro
Do you not win, like ever?
Victory screens don't matter
She's not Shulk bad so whatever
He's well designed in general, particularly for anyone who has a soft spot for gen1. The classic look for Red, the OG starters, etc. One of the few "complex" designs for Smash that actually worked out well
>The classic look for Red,
Are you blind?
Smash Red is using the shitty redesign that took out all the coolness from him
Fire Red is the definitive edition, and no amount of autism will change that fact.
>and no amount of autism will change that fact.
PL? The fuck does that stand for?
Bro please don't go down the PreciousLeaf rabbit hole. I'm not even a pokefag and that shit is too autistic for me
No, let him. It'll be funny.
That artstyle is quite ugly. Maybe it's for the best they don't use it anymore.
Red was never cool, you only think he was because he was the previous player character and you self inserted as him.
yes anon that was the entire point of his appearance in gold/silver/crystal
Yes and you're a gay so he was never cool.
Yep since 2008 he truly represents the essence of Pokémon, switching between mons depending on the situation.
>since 2008 he truly represents the essence of Pokémon,
that and KANTOOOOOOOOOO shilling
Charizard is the biggest meme in all of Pokémon
Actually one of the worst ones. On paper it looks good but then you realize we lost 2 roster slots with Ivysaur and Squirtle.
PAC-MAN isn't that popular in Japan, so it sort of makes sense that he'd get a short end of the stick. It's the same reason why Wario and Sonic get so little, for reference.
Kirby's the one in the worst position by far, especially for a character that's a literal Japanese idol.
The orignal 12. Their movesets would be extremely different and better representations of their respective franchises if they had been added from Sm4sh onward.
No thanks, since tr4sh every moveset is extremely gimmicky.
If Mario was added today he would probably have a power up mechanic or Link weapons would break.
I hate gimmicky trash
Well let’s take a moment to think how Smash would be if it debuted in 2023 instead of 1999
Notice the characters who are not on there
>cut plans for putting Wolf in Melee due to time constraints and just slap a Fox palette swap with backwards ears in the intro
>stick Falco in instead and make him a clone
>barely have time to put Wolf in Brawl (and as a semi clone no less) because he still isn't important enough to ensure he got a spot the next time; completely absent from the SSE story
>cut Wolf out again for Wii U, with no series replacement at launch or as DLC
>all three Foxes make it back for Ultimate with almost nothing new except an AT of the next most popular Star Fox character (who doesn't even get a song) and a few references to the dumpster fire that was Zero
Sakurai clearly has the least amount of love for Star Fox out of any of the main Nintendo flagships. Anyone crying their third party guest wasn't "well represented" can take a long walk off a short pier.
Be happy your dead franchise has 3 characters, Fox was more than enough
Yeah they should be happy Starfox is on life support via Smash like many others
bro, ROB never even got a stage.
I can't use Wolf in Ultimate because his new voice lines are fucking godawful.
>only 3 results for the captain falcon clone
Alright Ganker I'm about to save Fire Emblem in Smash, check it.
>Remove Roy, Ike, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin and Byleth
>Keep Marth and Roban
>Marth now has an item system which replaces his neutral B. He's given a randomized list of five weapons every time he spawns, but three are guaranteed: iron sword, steel sword and silver sword
>Each metal sword affects the character's weight and speed, and attack strength, and his B specials. Iron Sword is the lightest and allows him to move the fastest, but easier to KO. It is also the weakest, but the speed allows for easier combos. Has 45 uses like ingame.
>Steel sword is the middle ground, giving Barth average speed and weight, but stronger than Iron. Has 30 uses.
>Silver sword is the strongest of the 3, but the heaviest. Has 25 uses, makes him slow, but heavy hitting and hard to knockout. Granted, Marth is still relatively lightweight, so it'd only put him a few steps below weightclass of the heavyweights.
>All B specials for the generics are the same. Side B is Sword Dance, which lets you do a rekka depending on which direction you hold the B button. Up B is the same for all swords. Down B de-equips the sword, allowing you to throw it or keep it around for instant switching.
>In the event you exhaust every weapon use, you're granted a generic sword with unlimited use. Very weak, but still lets you be quick.
>The other two weapons are randomized. One is Falchion, which has strength just below Silver, but the speed of Iron. Has 30 uses, can only be used once per match. The side B is Healing, which recovers 10% of your percentage.
>Another is the Killing Edge. Strength of Steel, weight of Iron, but the edge of it allows you to make critical hits which do more damage and knockback. Its Side B is now Shieldbreaker, which can almost KO anyone if placed properly. 30 uses.
>Rapier. Weight of Iron and strength of Steel, it also has more damage on its edges. Not as strong as Killing Edge, but still useful.
>Side B is Focuse Stance, which powers up your attacks for Rapier in general by 10%. 45 uses.
>Robin gains a similar mechanic but ditches the Levin Sword. In exchange he gets more books to pull from, some of which are very powerful but slow to represent their hit rates in the series. I don't remember what the names of most of this shit is, so I'll leave that to someone else who knows it more than me, but it'd basically be Marth but Magic.
Now they have a system they can use for other characters and make it easier to implement. This would also make it MORE reasonable to put in weapon specific users, like swordmasters like Rutger, Karla or whoever who are mainly represented with Killing Edges, or Axe wielders like Hector, or Lances like Ephraim.
That Marth overhaul sounds gay as fuck
It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than what we have now, and encapsulates Fire Emblem's core gameplay: weapon limitations, strategy and chance. My only straw grasping was the rapier. I only put it in since it's a weapon usually donned by some lords, and is somewhat prevalent in the games. It has a higher crit chance, but it's not too strong, do the stance is what I came up with.
It's fucking awful and in no way better than what we already have. Marth has always bypassed weapon durability with Falchion having unlimited uses and his tipper mechanic already lends itself to strategic gameplay, utilizing both the strong and weak hits to set-up further hits or force an opponent's movement. He's one of the few with an aerial move that will change the direction he's facing, opening up more possibilities in combat. They got it right the first time and didn't need to rely on hamfisted references to the game. Shieldbreaker was already a Rapier equivalent, piercing a guard, and in Ultimate, allows a kind of critical hit with a headshot.
Sakurai... Is that you? You sly old dog, you should know better than to waste time on Ganker!
Just admit your idea was shit. If there are FE fighters that don't represent FE well mechanically, it's the others. Lucina plays like a standard disjointed fighter, and Chrom and Roy are both braindead rushdown. Ike leans a bit more to making careful movements due to his low speed, but his high power kind of circumvents that. Robin is an obvious outlier due to having to manage uses and the switching between swords. Corrin is probably one of the closer ones due to the layered mechanics of the specials, Dragon Fang Shot has both a projectile and bite that can be charged independently, the pin can stick to walls and starts with a jump if performed on the ground, and follows with a kick or can be cancelled with another jump, etc. Byleth is perhaps on track as well with each weapon having distinct uses and requiring some planning in practice, and fulfills the meme of using more weapons like retards have been clamoring for.
>Byleth is perhaps on track as well with each weapon having distinct uses and requiring some planning in practice, and fulfills the meme of using more weapons like retards have been clamoring for
No one should be defending anything about Byleth. Beyond being a blatant shill pick and a silent protag they don't actually commit to any particular weapon, which means they don't have a playstyle that is meaningfully influenced by any of them.
A lance user or axe user or bow user or even a mounted character would all have obvious strengths/weaknesses just from the weapon they use, someone who uses all of them without limit gets to ignore weapon characteristics when its convenient
This a stupid cope. An axe user wouldn't play any differently than say, Ike, already does, nor would a Lance user play much differently than Marth. There's no actal mechanical basis for having more weapons, but retards will ask for them anyway because muh weapon triangle.
>An axe user wouldn't play any differently than say, Ike, already does,
>Simon neutral B
>Using the blade itself to grab or extend grabs (back throw into grab)
>Priority on blade-clashes
>Manual stun a la Mewtwo
>nor would a Lance user play much differently than Marth.
>Dash attacks countering shields and being safe on block
>Vine whip disjointed up-b
>Lance-platform down-special (Litchi Faye-ling) to add to neutral
None of the things you mentioned would make for a meaningfully different playstyle.
>Meanwhile, if you change the weapons for any of the 4 Marths you're basically making a new character.
What exactly is this supposed to mean? Besides Marth's thrusting attacks, an axe would not change anything, and a lance could easily do everything the same. Roy and Chrom are practically already axes with their high power at close range. A Marth with a bit more range and slower attacks would not be a completely different playstyle.
>None of the things you mentioned would make for a meaningfully different playstyle.
The third one for axes alone makes Kazuya a massive threat since he can attack through enemy disjoints, and the fourth one for lances introduces a stance to add to the pressure of an advantage state while forcing the enemy to use aerials against a grounded target.
>Roy and Chrom are practically already axes with their high power
Axes aren't just 'wild swings with high power', the weapon dictates the moves available to the user (at least when they don't cheap out with magic or down-b counter).
Marth is a character about dancing at close-midrange, trying to keep in that distance with grazing swipes and powerful thrusts. The only kind of axe moveset that would make sense with that kind of playstyle would be the pirates, with their two small hand-axes. Anything else would be significantly different.
>An axe user wouldn't play any differently than say, Ike, already does
What axes are we talking about? Big fighter/warrior Axes? The two smaller axes Pirates carry? Hector, Edelgard, FeH Anna? Ike is already an outlier among swordfighters who fudges his attacks with fire pilllars, down-b counter, dash side-b, and a weapon toss. You could make him bare handed and his playstyle would be 80% the same since he just uses brute force for everything. Same with Corrin, since the sword isn't even a big deal for them either. Meanwhile, if you change the weapons for any of the 4 Marths you're basically making a new character.
>nor would a Lance user play much differently than Marth
There would be some crossover because Marth uses a fencing-inspired style, but lances are going to be much bigger than his sword. You don't have a character with a big weapon and big reach, then still have them be as fast/responsive as Marth or his clones. There's plenty of variation in possible implementations but you don't make a lance user be most dangerous at close range, and it would be strange if they didn't have weighty movement. They'd be more similar to the Belmonts, but without the projectile based playstyle.
This is why we need Kleavor in Smash
Hey if it really is Sakurai let him do what he wants to do, let’s get insight from him we can on certain characters which is why this thread is even up
Just give me Andy in Smash in exchange for Corrin, that’s all folks
>he wants the franchise that shit itself out of ever being successful
What’s a Fire Emblem, Again?
A franchise that sold out. What's Advance Wars? Nothing but a copy trying to ride on the tails of company branding.
It's laughable just how generic AW is, and how hard IS keeps fumbling the ball on it. I'll be shocked if Reboot Camp actually leads to a new game. But I'll only be really surprised if it has substance.
waifubait anime rts
I want the next Smash to be something fairly different, since we got a giant 'end-of-an-era' type thing in Ultamax. Make Assist Trophies striker assists instead, Andy would be perfect there. His face cuts in with a voice line, you get a small heal, and GBA sprites start spawning onto the stage. Plus they could easily add other COs with minor tweaks, like a different color spite and power-up effect
I wouldn’t mind that but Andy himself would actually be fun, he clumsily fight with 2 Wrenches or 1 Big Wrench, I mean nobody else in Smash does that, Andy’s Wrenches could be the perfect middle ground between Brawly Fists and Swinging Swords
Do you miss DLC speculation?
No, it was annoying and the discourse was draining.
Not at all, I got Terry Bogard and Hero works better than I thought he would. I wanted a dragoon or a black mage, and not Sephiroth.
Only the reasonable kind but most of it was insane shitposting
The excessive dry stretches of 2020-2021 completely drained all the soul from the threads, and reduced it to the same dozen discord gays replying to each other like bots.
I got Hero, Banjo, Steve and Pneuma. I'm fine
Rework Sonic for the next game in 20 years and I won't ever ask for anything again.
I didn't get a single character I wanted and I was REALLY tired of the constant "Crash/Hayabusa/Dante are locks guys trust me" shit, so no.
I love projectile manipulation.
What's so bad about Corrin? Just to appeal foot fags or what?
Zelda and Sonic are terribly represented as franchises.
It's not him. It's ganon.
He's literally only in Smash because Miyamoto requested him personally.
Always been Sonic
Will not be anyone but Sonic
Sakurai hates Sonic
Same, so I'm okay with that.
>BREAK THE TARGETS
>BOARD ALL THE PLATFORMS
I miss it so much bros
it would've absolutely been possible to have made the genre lineup for the DLC more varied and interesting
>hes STILL seething after 3+ years
also who the fuck is the squid thing?
>also who the fuck is the squid thing?
Tako from Parodius, also known as the only way you'd get a Gradius franchise rep because the Vic Viper could never be animated well as a fighter
>Literal who from non tetris over an Atlus rep
>Literal who over a FE rep
>Dead game that the developer doesn't touch anymore over a fucking DISNEY rep
Are you retarded anon? Like for real, is there something going on in that wacky little head?
>Not using the Ghostly Adventures powers
>No MMX representation, just original Mega Man series stuff
I hope we get Zero in the next if they're still doing third parties.
Zero is an assist and there's a remix of Central Highway. I wouldn't expect more, tbh
I'd be more than OK with X as a semi-clone of Mega Man, the way Roy incorporated shit from Ike as well as himself and Marth
I'm assuming the next will be a serious roster cut to the point where clones won't exist, so it would be Megaman and Zero at most. X is too different from the original anyway. Also the entirety of the SF "universe" in Smash is just SF2 so I wouldn't be too sad if Ryu was gone.
Hence semi-clone, I'd see X as being akin to Dr. Mario or Ike relative to Mario and Marth when compared to Mega Man, enough changes that he handles completely differently while sharing some core fundamentals
I'd rather have Megaman Zero representation honestly just because I fear Sakurai adding a character and making them as awful as the Belmonts to play with and against
I really don’t like how Megaman plays in Smash and how they based it too much on the NES look, yeah Megaman is pretty faithful but I wish he had a weapon switching mechanic as a down b and make neutral whatever weapon is selected.
X is in PMEX Remix with Central Highway as a Stage and more MMX Music like the X3 Intro Stage and Lumine 2nd Phase
He's implemented insanely well in Card Sagas Wars if you're interested in that game
I hate fags that think that every smash character is supposed to reference every single move that they have in their games. The best characters in smash are the ones where they had to make up a moveset for them and the worst ones are the ones where they had to make every move they do some kind of reference.
Funny you say that, because the best character in Ultimate is Steve and the worst is Ganondorf
I just tried Smash Bros. Crusade and hated it, ask me anything
Why would you try it? Looks like memeshit garbage
I'm always curious about these kinds of fangames, I like Super Smash Flash 2 even if I think the creator should be crucified for insisting on Shonen Jump characters
Oh and also he should be crucified for the fucking garbage base roster of Fraymakers, there are more interesting choices in the assist lineup like Peppino than there are in the actual playable lineup
Funny, I don't like Smash Flash 2 either. I could tolerate it before, but now it's just a cheap imitation of real Smash. Some characters like Mega Man used to have completely different movesets due to existing before the official one, but now he's largely been streamlined to be the same. This extends to things like the artstyle, which in gameplay, used to be a somewhat toon-y sprite art, but is now now just a sprite imitation of the official game. The CSS portraits in particular are just traces of official art instead of being their own thing. There's always been some degree of this like the menus and such aping Brawl, but it's hard to miss now.
SSF2 has a lot I like and a lot I don't, funny you bring up Mega Man since I think they should have either gone all the way on bringing him in line with his official moveset or just kept their old one, I feel he's incredibly half-assed now.
SSF2 at least doesn't have Crusade's problems where some characters are inexplicably very very well animated and the vast majority are amateur. Mario and Sonic have two taunts, barely anybody else does. Some characters like Toon Link have 3 frames in their idle animation and Sonic has 10+.
In general, especially now, the movesets feel very uninspired. None of them come close to most of the newcomers from Wii U.
How is Ashley and Ristar in Smash Crusade?
Ashley I didn't try out of lack of interest for the character but Ristar is implemented almost oppressively boringly, down-special and neutral-special both do the same thing with a slightly different animation and up-special is launching himself from around an acrobatic pole, but you have no control over it for momentum's sake and he just flies off in a direction after spinning around once
That’s a shame how Ristar somehow has similar down and neutral bs like a certain damn blue rodent
y’all watching battle of bbc?
Unironically, why the fuck would you base him primarily off Pac-Land? I don't know a single person who likes Pac-Land, let alone who even has heard of Pac-Land.
Should have taken more from Pac-Man World.
namco being shitheads, probably
They were so reluctant to even acknowledge World’s existence in the 2010’s, and all it did was further tank the brand after GA’s failure.
Because while Sakurai does try to look at what a character's main games have been doing, he still largely goes off of his own memories with a character where he can, and he clearly did a lot of gaming in arcades in the early to mid 90s, so that's where he seems to think to look at first. Hence why most of Sonic's non spin attacks are pulled from Sonic Fighters while nothing is from Sonic Battle. I can only imagine that Pac-Land was his first primary exposure to Pac-Man and somehow that just strikes him as the most obvious thing to look at for 2D source material, and has possibly never even played the World games, especially since that series was long dead by the time of adding him to Smash Bros.
I am kinda just talking out of my ass here, but I feel like it suddenly makes sense if it turns out most of his action game experience is from arcades while most of his non-arcade gaming time is spent on the genres you CAN'T get from arcades, JRPGs most of all.
History autism. Pac-Land influenced Super Mario Bros.
Sonic Lmao, his moveset is nothing but the spindash/homing attack in different flavors. And he gets Green Hill and Spherical Green Hill from fucking Lost world of all things.
If another smash is ever made I hope Sakurai just steals his Frontier moveset and calls it a day. It's not great, but it's better.
>Tfw no pac man world two moves
its almost been a decade since smash 4 and im still mad
>Have a guy known for his zany music
>Refuse to actually give him any
>Barely any music from the stages that aren’t from the classic games
>Said Stage Music used very sparingly
>Too many vocal themes like Open your Heart, Live and Learn, Sonic Heroes (But no “What I’m Made of”, Seaside Hill, Frog Forest, Rail Canyon, Etc.)
I have a feeling its a SEGA issue with Sonic music.
>all but one stage is generic jungle, the exception is one of the worst stages in the franchise
>95% of the music selection is Jungle Hijinx and remixes of it, Smash 4 alone literally added eight JH remixes
>four items, all of which suck dick
>took until ultimate for K. Rool to get in
He isn't an echo so he immediately can't be it.
>"That's a nice moveset, Sakurai. How about you back it up with its origin?"
>"Its origin is that I made it the fuck up!"
i would like to enjoy online but its a lagfest and people only play the same handful of characters anyways. its hard to give a fuck.
I haven't bought Sora yet but his trailer really appealed to my petrification fetish so I don't feel much hate towards him.