Why could subsequent MGS games never make a compelling cast of villains such as pic related?

Why could subsequent MGS games never make a compelling cast of villains such as pic related?

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    3 is pretty close. Everyone remembers The End, The Sorrow and The Boss. The Fury is also liked.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      As fights, maybe, as characters, I can only give you The Sorrow and The Boss. Everyone else is forgettable aside from The End's boss fight, especially the Beeman, The Fear and The Pain.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Vulcan Raven and Decoy Octupus aren't memorable as character's either

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          To be fair you never see Decoy Octopus when he isn't pretending to be another character and people do remember the DARPA Chief.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            tbh i never had any idea there was a Decoy Octopus in MGS1 lol

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      they are ultimately more cooler cause they fought in ww2

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >"I am - The Fury...! The flames of my rage will incinerate you! I came back from space, and as I returned, I had one vision... The world set ablaze! And do you know what I saw there?... Fury! A great and terrible fury at being alive! Now you too will feel the scorching heat of that horrible blackness!"

      honestly, the writing is kinda mid, but the actor's delivery of this completely sold me. fighting in the dark, cept where he's hunting you down. 10/10 game & boss fights

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Having seen how others fought him, I just got my SVD out and shot him to death when he was approaching me from afar, which made me quite disappointed with the fight overall, though the over the top delivery made him a more memorable boss than most others, excluding The End, The Sorrow and The Boss.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          fair point, lol the NVG trivialized it the second time i played it, but these battles are more spectacle than an actual test of skill. another excellent delivery by Michael Bell, the voice actor for Raziel of the Legacy of Kain series:

          >"I... am The Fear... That bolt is coated in the venom of the Brazilian Wandering Spider... Soon a most exquisite pain will engulf your entire body. Your limbs will be paralyzed, your lungs cease to draw breath! Eventually your heart will stop beating... Ah, but what fun would that be? Not a fitting death at all. The Boss' apprentice... I will give you fear such as you've never experienced before! Come into my web."

          most interesting part of the battle were the many interactions one could have. did you opt for a shoot out, or try to poison him yourself?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >most interesting part of the battle were the many interactions one could have
            Volgin interactions were fun.
            Enjoy your frog PTSD

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Volgin interactions were fun.
              Easily the worst part of Snake Eater.

              >RAAAAAGH I'M MAD
              >RAAAAAGH I'M MAD
              >I'M GONNA UNVEIL MY PLAN BEFORE KILLING YOU
              >RAAAAAGH I'M MAD
              >OCELOTE HELP ME
              >RAAAAAGH I'M MAD

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I was talking about the boss fight, but sure, the character itself was a comicbook villain, that's true

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                The boss fight is no better, he just acts like a moron for the duration of it and I gladly used my shotgun against his back for maximum damage.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                give some credit to the man who essentially caused the entire series to happen

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >RAAAAAGH RAIKOV'S CUTE LITTLE TUSHY

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                More like
                >RAAAAGH, RAIKOV'S MACHINE GUN BALLS

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >ben

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Solidus >>>>> Liquid

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    2 is underrated. Fortune and Vamp were great characters, Fatman was lame. Funny, but lame. Still couldn't touch FOXHOUND, though. 3 was good but mostly too one dimensional at times. 4 was fucking awful.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    characters sticking around for the entire series doesn't really make them compelling. they had the entire series to grow

    it's not like anyone gives a shit about decoy or vulcan, sniper wolf would be easily forgettable if hal didn't go on about her

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      People do care about Vulcan Raven.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ocelot became a main character after this, Vulcan is considered one of the better villains and is argued to be a non-villain, Sniper Wolf starts Otacons entire character arc, Psycho Mantis is one of the most unique boss fights in gaming and becomes a recurring character as well

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >and becomes a recurring character as well
        And that wasn't good because MGS 4 sucks, just look at what they did to Meryl or Raiden.

        Vulcan Raven and Decoy Octupus aren't memorable as character's either

        Don't care about Decoy Octopus, but Vulcan Raven is definitely memorable and fairly unique when compared to the rest of the bosses, not in the least because of the fact that he's part Native American, part Inuit, and that it plays a large role in his characterization, which you didn't see at all atm aside from Prey that came out 5 years later. And his speech at the time of his death is one of the more memorable ones in the first game.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          what are you talking about? Vulcan Raven is the most cliché character in the entire game? He is literally just the noble savage Indian.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            He's not just that, but he definitely wasn't dime a dozen in the context of gaming at the time, hell, he still isn't nowadays so you saying that Vulcan Raven is the most cliche out of the entire cast is just wrong.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >this extremely common cliche hasn't been done in gaming before so obviously it is actually really unique!
              >t. retard

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              i think you're right about him not being typical or dime a dozen, but that doesn't make it good writing. but it's the same for all the mgs games pretty much, villains are a clown gang, all with different powers. very 90s writing, especially movies. it doesn't bother me and i enjoy the mgs games a lot, but that still makes it a bit of a cliche in my book

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                But the thing is that MGS nails camp and also has actual depth, and that on paper its writing is too heavy handed and often direct and filled to brim with expositions, but in such a way that it actually works and has its own charms and that's what makes them unique. Besides, they also carried important messages and lines like "Snake, do you think love can bloom on the battlefield?" are iconic for a reason, and a good one at that.

                >this extremely common cliche hasn't been done in gaming before so obviously it is actually really unique!
                >t. retard

                Film noir was done to that, so were Bond films and spy thrillers, but Max Payne and MGS are still unique inspite of it and utilize those cliches quite competently that they manage to transcend them and work in the end. So yeah, just because that type of characters is stock in literature, doesn't mean gaming can't give it a unique spin that works regardless of the fact.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Anything can be simplified to "He was just_____".
            Vulcan Raven was fucking awesome and I don't even usually like characters like him. He legitimately has the all-time greatest line in the entire series
            >Snake, in the natural world, there is no such thing as boundless slaughter; there is always an end to it. But you are different... The path you walk on has no end. Each step you take is paved with the corpses of your enemies. Their souls will haunt you forever. You shall have no peace.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Decoy octopus is great. You don’t realize but he’s in every mg prior to mgs, but he’s uncredited. His skill is just that good.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        That's fucking stupid.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          You’re fucking stupid.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That was rude, ma'am.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Making really appealing and fleshed out villains only for them to say a few lines and then die one by one was not good writing. It feels like wasted potential. Making the boss characters kind of corny and forgettable and focusing on developing the characters who don't die makes for a better story. That's why 2 and 3 are better games than 1.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    What was that web comic about foxhound before MGS1, I remember it being pretty good.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >beat one
    >they spend 10 minutes explaining their backstory and motives while dying
    why was it ok for mgs1 to do it but not mgs4

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      because it wasn't them doing it and the characters themselves are literally copies of the characters from 1

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      1 did it better and didn't spit on their legacy and ran contrary to the message that defeating a boss was necessarily a good thing and that they were bad simply because they were in your way. Solid Snake having sympathy for Mantis or earning respect for Vulcan is what sold those moments.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      the best one is 3, and MG1 and MG2
      >I AM THE RUNNING MAN
      >*runs*
      >*dies*

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >shotgun kid
        >shoots you with a shotgun

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Snake, you did the right thing putting this trauma victim out of her misery after taking sexy photographs of her

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The first MGS is the only one he actually wanted to make.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      But he said he was officially done with 2, then with 3, then more death threats came his way and he felt compelled to make 4, then the development of 5 was a complete clusterfuck and with hindsight, we would have been better had Snake Eater been the last MGS game.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        so that's why Video murdered shinzo

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      but even that was a thematic retread of mg2

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Soldier
    >Medic
    >Heavy
    >Sniper
    >Pyro
    >Spy

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      How the hell is Revolver Ocelot (Revolver Ocelot) Medic?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Well, he doesn't have a medical degree for one.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    This random thought has been bothering me for a good week--if her bullet immunity was planted in her then why didn't Solidus just give all of Dead Cell the same device?
    It's not like it would be unusual in a series with bee guns and nanomachine vampires. It's been years, so I probably missed something.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It was controlled by The Patriots.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ocelot shot her not Solidus

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It was controlled by The Patriots.

        Solidus didnt do it, it was the Patriots.
        I assume they wanted her to be someone like Psycho Mantis in the Shadow Moses recreation they made so they wanted to give her a unique gimmick

        She was actually psychic, or whatever. The tech she had just enhanced it. It's headcannon, but it's what I've always gone with.

        From there you can just assume you couldn't give it to normal soldiers because they don't have the innate power.

        I also don't consider Vamp to be all "technology" keeping him alive, either. That's an MGS4 retcon. 2 is the point in the series/timeline where it's directly in the middle of supernatural/technology. 3 is all supernatural, 1 is mostly supernatural, 2 is the center and 4 is about how it's all been replaced by technology (and magic has basically left the world).

        Oh fuck, that's what I get for not going back and watching cutscenes before posting. I completely forgot it was Ocelot that exposed the device.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Solidus didnt do it, it was the Patriots.
      I assume they wanted her to be someone like Psycho Mantis in the Shadow Moses recreation they made so they wanted to give her a unique gimmick

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      She was actually psychic, or whatever. The tech she had just enhanced it. It's headcannon, but it's what I've always gone with.

      From there you can just assume you couldn't give it to normal soldiers because they don't have the innate power.

      I also don't consider Vamp to be all "technology" keeping him alive, either. That's an MGS4 retcon. 2 is the point in the series/timeline where it's directly in the middle of supernatural/technology. 3 is all supernatural, 1 is mostly supernatural, 2 is the center and 4 is about how it's all been replaced by technology (and magic has basically left the world).

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        what was so supernatural about 1 besides Psycho Mantis

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Wasn't Vulcan Raven a shaman? I mean that's pretty supernatural.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >sniper wolf has a strange control over wolves
          >Vulcan gets instagibbed by wolves
          >FOXDIE becoming a literal deus ex machina

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            it's symbolic not magic
            THIS is magic

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >V retcons all the cobras to be a result of WOLBACHIA
              it really did not need to be explained, it was fine as a mystery

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Guess you haven't played MGS 4: Nanomachines, son.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nobody has played 4, but plenty of people have watched it

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Raven and the birds. Sniper Wolf probably had some weird shit going on with the wolves too, I forget. Then Mantis, obviously. 1 is a bit of a mix, because then you have Decoy and Ocelot who are very much not supernatural (Well, technically Ocelot is because he's the Sorrow's kid and has latent psychic potential which lets Liquid possess him in 2).

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I just wonder why this dumb bitch just didn't jump off Big Shell into the Hudson River if she wanted to die so much

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous
  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    MGS lorelet here, can someone explain to me what MGS2 was about, why was Raiden deceived about his mission?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It was to prove whether the experiment would be successful and whether A.I.'s thesis would be proven correct, that anyone can be made into Solid Snake given the right circumstances. Now explaining MGS 2 as a whole is a lot more complicated, but to put it lightly, it's about how the digital age of information will impact our day to day lives and conception of reality and how one should find meaning in that state of disarray. The crux of the game's message is the long winded monologue the A.I. gives you and the one that's the most quoted aspect of the game, followed by the ending conversation with Solid Snake. And given its subjective approach, my reading of it will differ from yours or anyone else's and will be distinctively different since the takeaways will be different, and that's what's really important about the experience of playing The Sons of Liberty. So the best advice I can give you is to ponder the material some more and to replay the game in the future in order to understand it better and see what you think you should takeaway from the experience.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        forgot to add that SuperBunnyhop's video on it is great:

        And that these essays on MGS 2 are very much worth your time:
        https://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >that anyone can be made into Solid Snake given the right circumstances
        that's only what they told Ocelot, right? what S3 actually stood for is Selection for Societal Sanity which I forgot what it's about aside from Raiden being their prime candidate as a subject because of how delusional he was

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Nah, I think it's true for Raiden since he's a wannabe Snake at first, and so is the player controlling him, which the A.I. exploits.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            My only question there then, is why would they be running an experiment to test if you could condition any soldier to become a "solid snake", when that had already been accomplished with Venom Snake.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Or maybe Venom wasn't up to snuff because he was Ultima eliminated by Solid?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Ultimately*

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Because MGS V didn't exist back in 2001, and besides, Solid Snake is a successor to the Big Boss and it is considered he's the best soldier after him, so it would have been better to model it after Solid Snake, than Venom Snake..

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Did Zero help BB fake his own death? I can't remember. Otherwise I would say the patriots wouldn't have known.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The S3 plan was about controlling information and seeing if the AI could condition society/a person by being very selective of what information they could gain access to. Hell, the Patriot AI somehow changed society's perception of Arsenal running into Manhattan something that sure was fuck didn't happen.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    This is making me want to sketcho up furry versions

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because specifically in Ganker that isn't the point of the game, to kill demons you must become a demon yourself.

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    ENTER
    RUNNING MAN

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      *blocks your path*

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    i do think it's partly because they have a good synergy together as each has a clear defined role and specialties for their mission, they cover a range. Felt like with later mgs games the villains were plucked out of nowhere and slapped into a group, even though i like a lot of them individually what use they had was questionable.
    >if fatman wasn't used as a distraction for raiden what could he do on big shell?
    >fortune just shoots things and leaves (i guess she's a heavy like vulcan or man on fire?)
    >the pain shoots hornets, kind of limited. (the fear seemed like a better use of nature as a skillset)
    >the whole beauty and beast unit were so kitted out i don't really know what one had over the other
    >skull face didn't have much use for psycho mantis

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Fortune is there to kill Solid Snake and take revenge for her father because The Patriots lied to her.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Cobra unit may not have been more compelling (par the boss) but they were more fun to fight and entertaining

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    decoy octopus was based why did kojima shit on him. absolute jobber

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Good night anons

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous
      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        thanks

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The graphics got too good.
    MGS had the advantage of everything being blurry as fuck and it gave it this sense of mystery to all the characters.
    Even Yoji Shinkawas art is like blurry on their faces so you can't really make out what they look like

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'm sorry but MGS3 is just superior to MGS1 in basically every single way.

    >Better more complex gameplay, also way more of it
    >Better told, more poignant story; arguably the tightest story of any MGS
    >Way better pacing (Most long codec calls are optional, second half doesn't just become a boss rush)
    >Best version of Ocelot (Myaooooooooooooooou)
    >The Boss fight is way better than the Liquid fight
    >The End, The Fury, The Pain and The Sorrow are just as memorable as the MGS1 villains. Only really forgettable one is the Fear, which isn't bad, just whatever.

    The only real argument I can direct at MGS3 is that the menu management can get a bit annoying, and that the vanilla MGS3 camera just wasn't a good fit for the new gameplay.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      And MGS 2 has the better story, while Snake Eater remains with the best gameplay from the first 3.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I agree on MGS2.
        The MGS2 haters always expose themselves as midwits.
        It's one of the most important and impactful games ever made in relation to modern times, it transcends just video games.
        MGS3 is a masterpiece as well, but the story is a little more standard, which is fine.

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    2 was the worst. all just boring. 4 wasn't horrible, just a rip off. the mechs were cool and there fights were unique.

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous
  23. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The handdrawn codec pics were peak style, I don't understand why they used 3D models for the sequels.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      it's called Metal Gear SOLID not Metal Gear 2D

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