but it's true anime games usually give you a gorillion different defensive options while sf you have to know when to get out. are we gonna pretend like xrd doesn't have blitz, da, ib, fd?
I hate this about him, he doesn't actually play that many fighting games and he's not particularly good at them. His big original claim to fame was just making videos where he'd rate how cool super animations looked. Which did pretty well since normies really don't usually care about much more than which character looks the flashiest
>normies
Also, isn't that why flashy action games like DMC and anime fightans are popular with Ganker and everywhere else? Not that there's anything wrong with liking them.
Normies don't even like DMC that much, 5 got into the eyes of normies because of the announcement and Devil Trigger memes, same with Strive's "that is bullshit blazing"
>Whining about Slayer damage well claiming to be a GG vet >Letting Slayer do 2D on block point blank because you're a scrub mashing Baiken counter with no thought >Make tweet crying and never return to Rev1/2 because you're a fraud
Max is a egotistical no chin piece of garbage whose only good content was saying Black person.
I don't see anything wrong with this
its really frustrating trying to lean the game when there's no one at your skill level to play with
no one wants to get perfected by autistic veterans and you learn nothing from it
you completely misunderstand the fgc then
the entire point is to get absurdly good at something only your niche community understands because no one else cares
this is why smash, sfv, dbfz, and strive are bad games in their eyes, but shit like melty blood, blazblue, and and sfiii are apparently "good"
"real" fighting games have to combine vague bullshit with consistency to appeal to this crowd
Because most use a poorly balanced matchmaking system that makes it completely unfun to play.
There's a fine line between "a challenging opponent" and "I literally didn't get to even play the game"
Matchmaking is better than it has ever been and there hasn't been a poorly balanced matchmaking system in fighting games since the dawn of SBMM. You're just a 100% beginner and/or worse than the average player so you lose. Fricking cope you homosexual. You'd b***h this hard if you lost to some russian because you stepped into the wrong Q3 lobby as quick as you'd shit your pants losing to some mexican in a fighting game in 2022. You've just been coddled into thinking this one genre needs to be fixed and saved like a fricking journo.
>there hasn't been a poorly balanced matchmaking system in fighting games since the dawn of SBMM
It's time for me to bust out this personal story again. >play MKX >has matchmaking >play through story >play a bunch of arcade >learn some nice 30%+ combos for my guy >go into multiplayer >after one minute get matched with opponent >my opponent has over 3000 games played >the game predicts i have a 0% chance of winning >i still play against my opponent for like 5-7 matches to see how i can do against a top end player and to improve
Is this skill based match making? Am I really about even in skill with great players in my very first pvp match? That's amazing. I'm not even mad.
It really isn't
Fighting games always try to do some moronic emotionally manipulative fake rating system to try to convince people to grind ranked endlessly. Why do you get more points in Tekken for beating someone the same rank as you than beating someone above you? Why is the way the points distributed designed to score you based on your winrate and not designed to match you against people you should have a 50% winrate against? Why use bullshit points and not just use fricking Elo in the first place? What the frick were they thinking with Strive's system in general?
I think in theory Strive's ranking system works fine, it just can't recover from so many people scamming themselves to celestial week 1 without having to play anyone actually good because it takes too few matches to change rank for how few ranks there are. In general that one fairly short hot/lucky streak could take you from floor 8 to VIP in only a few opponents is a flaw.
It generally works in a sense that you can find matches with similarly skilled players but the implementation is demented. I don't think it works in theory because just going by the math, you're basically guaranteed to end up with everyone stuck in floors 8-10 with the lower floors being completely unused. But the real bugbear is the incredibly dumb decision to interrupt sets with floor changes. It's like the incentive to get to Celestial is that you stop having to deal with that shit.
For whatever inane reason, Strive's floor system prevents you from dropping two floors from your highest watermark no matter how many losses you take. So if you get into floor 10 at any point, which is fairly easy even if you're just going on luck, you can't drop below floor 8. So from the math it's pretty obvious that everyone that plays the game is eventually going to funnel upwards.
Also if you get into Celestial you can no longer drop below floor 10.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Doing that would make sense if it wasn't for the issue of ranks changing too fast so you can luck your way up ridiculously high I already said.
The whole idea of VIP/Celestial does screw things up though by basically rapturing the top of the matchmaking pyramid so there's no downward pressure even besides people jumping the line when there was no hierarchy.
>worse than the average player so you lose
this is exactly what SBMM avoids though, shitters play with shitters so they lose less and winners play with winners so they win less
Matchmaking is for homosexuals anyway. You learn nothing by first to 2'ing someone and then moving on to the next random opponent. It doesn't allow for actual adaptation and counter adaptation and therefore disproportionally rewards gimmicks and knowledge checks.
If you want to actually improve go into a lobby, thread or server and find an opponent who is roughly around your level or better and play around 20 matches with him, then ask about the shit that you couldn't handle. >Hurf durf but I just wanna turn the game on and press a button to get into a match
Then stay shit and don't complain about losing.
This is lying cope. MM is fine. You’re getting matched with people in your level and if you aren’t that means no one is playing your game. I don’t know why people bring up these stupid fricking excuses every time this dumb thread is made. It’s simple. People don’t like losing and fighting games are a genre where losing is the apex of demoralization. Anons just need to be real with themselves and stop trying to revolutionize the wheel. It’s wheel, it doesn’t what it needs to do and that’s it.
Isn't brawlhalla mostly 4 player FFA? I tried it once and that was what seemed like the default. There were also weird items and stuff like you could grab weapons. It really wasn't anything like a real fighting game.
This is lying cope. MM is fine. You’re getting matched with people in your level and if you aren’t that means no one is playing your game. I don’t know why people bring up these stupid fricking excuses every time this dumb thread is made. It’s simple. People don’t like losing and fighting games are a genre where losing is the apex of demoralization. Anons just need to be real with themselves and stop trying to revolutionize the wheel. It’s wheel, it doesn’t what it needs to do and that’s it.
Fighting game matchmaking is still garbage though.
it's a 1v1 and 2v2 game
weapons aren't random, every char has 2 and that's how the game works
also who the frick cares that it isn't like a "real" fighting game? it's a 1v1 game and you lose if you're bad yet it's still popular than all FGs combined
>who the frick cares that it isn't like a "real" fighting game?
People who like fighting games.
2 years ago
Anonymous
cool, the post that I replied to doesn't mention anything about that
have fun with your dead games though, imagine thinking 1k players on steam is a good number
2 years ago
Anonymous
Brawlhalla has basically the same numbers as AoE2, which isn't actually significantly more popular 1v1 competitive than the more popular fighting games.
I got curious and wanted to compare AoE2's 1v1 ranked numbers to SFV's, but the CFN ranking list caps out at page 100 because Capcom can't even do that right, so I used Strive with ratingupdate.info instead.
AoE2 has way higher player numbers than any fighting game on steam, but it also has a large portion of its playerbase only doing singleplayer or team modes.
Comparing https://aoe2.net/#aoe2de-leaderboard-rm-1v1 with 41k players having played a 1v1 ranked match in the last month to http://ratingupdate.info/stats with 29k having played a game in the tower in the last week, they seem pretty equivalent. Strive's is significantly lower but also a significantly smaller collection period.
I thought that was interesting. It definitely lends some credence to the "competitive 1v1 is only ever going to be so popular" theory.
Have you got stats for active players in 1v1 ranked or something? I'd be interested to see that.
But regardless, people that like fighting games obviously aren't going to want them to turn into not-fighting games just to try to attract people that don't like fighting games. I'd be extremely happy with 1k players in a game I actually like compared to 15k in a game I don't. It doesn't matter how many people play Fortnite, I'm still not interested in it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Cool, keep playing your dead games while I can find players anytime I want with crossplay with the best netcode with an actual ranked system! Imagine being extremely happy with 1k players, actual loser mentality.
The post I replied to only said that fighting games are dead because they're 1v1, when in fact it's not because of that it's because japs are moronic but keep praising them for finally adding rollback after 10 years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Okay but how many people actually play ranked 1v1 in brawlhalla? I want to compare numbers here, I don't care about your emotions.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Enough people that I can find a game at 10 am in 2 seconds
2 years ago
Anonymous
no numbers then?
I found a ladder website but it's filled with every single person that has ever gone 0-1 in a f2p game so it's pretty useless.
>also who the frick cares that it isn't like a "real" fighting game?
Because it plays nothing like a traditional fighting game. There are plenty of other 1v1 games. Hurr durr why play street crap when you can play starcrap 2, it's 1v1 after all aka basically the same
because if you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself and the person you lost to is better than you. why do you think people are so quick to blame the characters they or the opponent uses over their own actual skills?
there have been real mechanical innovations since SF2
(also, although calling any revision of SF2 after the first a kusoge is absolutely hyperbolic, SF2 is still full of dumb bullshit that pretty much EVERY later game that isn't considered a kusoge doesn't have)
you can basically say that every FPS might as well be Doom if you simplify shit as far as you do
No it hasn't. That is like saying every FPS has been the same since Doom or Golden Eye. You sound like one of those dumb weird homosexuals who whine when a sequel is just a better version of the last game with more content.
Just watch any stream of Apex, DBD, CS etc, people will b***h about everything else when they die/lose. People literally cannot handle taking accountability.
1v1 is the only multiplayer I can stand. I get so pissed off in team games because I can't help but start scapegoating my team. But in 1v1 every failed interaction is objectively my fault so it feels like I can examine and approach and improve my gameplan every single match. Its a much more appealing time waster.
too many hours to gain basic competency to enjoy the games. too much hidden information that you have to search for online. very unfun to get stomped and be able to do nothing. you can pick a character, learn their combos, get semi-decent, then realize they suck as you get lol-stomped by your friend at the same skill level who plays a top tier. You learn the game and then learn your character is shit. then it's like, is it even worth it to continue playing them when you're at such a disadvantage?
Because quite literally 99,999999% of people on the planet are pussies and scared of any real competition. Even more people just do not enjoy any brain activity at all, so learning and adapting is not fun for them.
That's literally it.
Why do FGC homosexuals pretend that the dragon punch input is the hurdle for newcomers and not memorizing a 30-item spreadsheet of 3-5 button combos with various stick inputs AND understanding when to use each move? Oh, and let’s not forget that few characters on a given fighting game’s roster have any carryover from one command list to the next.
>hurr durr y u no dp?
homie, if only that was the problem.
>Oh, and let’s not forget that few characters on a given fighting game’s roster have any carryover from one command list to the next.
Why do you mean by this? Like, most games these days very rarely stray from basic QCFs, DPs, downdowns, and maybe you'll see a charge motion here and there. Once you got those down, you got the foundations to tackle pretty much any moveset, unless you are talking about weirdo 3D shit like Tekken or VF strings, or god forbid MKs dial-a-combos.
I mean that in a given fighting game, most characters play fairly distinctly and few are the same archetype or even a clone character, which means that newcomers aren’t going to be able to try out a character and then switch if they don’t like it without spending a lot of tine per character. If you don’t plan to make FGC a career, this is seen as a massive waste of time and not fun.
I don't agree. Yes, characters are distinct and do things differently, sure, if they didn't the games would fricking boooring, but even then there are only really a handful of character archetypes when you really get down to it, and the same goes for types of moves. Like, you have your Shotos/All-Rounders, Zoners, Rushdown, Grapplers, and they you'll have more gimmicky stuff like stance or puppet/assist characters and such, but really when you get down to it, pretty much any character is going to fit into at least one of the bigger, general molds which can then inform the kind of gameplan you want to run with that character.
Again, with how standardized inputs are these days, picking up character and learning their moves should take like, 15 minutes, maybe 30 tops if you can do the basic stuff. Learning how and when to use moves is more involved, but its something you pick up from actually playing, and the important shit you learn from having to actually play a person are going to be universal or will at least give you an idea of what to look for in moves that are good at doing xyz.
I'd say it depends on the game. Some are really easy to pick up and switch between like melty but in blazblue or old gg learning new characters takes some time.
Everyone who's gotten past the beginner level can tell that motions are a complete non-issue and there's a mountain of things still to learn that is much harder to do.
Why do you want less content? Do you want a small movelist where there are exact answers and it all quickly boils down to the same literal rps for every interaction?
I love them, got no friends. Refuse to play randoms because it’s soulless and the connection sucks no matter what. People irl that I used to play with hate losing and quit.
I love them, got no friends. Refuse to play randoms because it’s soulless and the connection sucks no matter what. People irl that I used to play with hate losing and quit.
>people get angry at you for knowing a BnB >people get angry at you for knowing how to block and not falling for hail mary high-recovery/minus moves >people get angry at you for knowing how to throw
What am I missing? These are the most common ones off the top of my head
>friends are too busy to play with you or they prefer other games and when they do play with you they fight halfassedly and you don't want to make them feel worse >you have to play deliberately to keep friends coming back to the genre
1. I'm white. There's obviously something about fighting games that makes them incompatible with white people because even in 95% white countries, their best players aren't white.
2. 1v1 isn't appealing to me. This means you'll have a roughly 50% winrate. However, the 50% losses feel worse to me than the 50% wins feel good. This is probably because I'm in the 97th percentile for neuroticism (negative emotions) and the 6th percentile for extroversion (positive emotions). I need to win a lot or else it's simply a bad investment of my time. Of course, you'd think this means all competitive games are bad to me, but not entirely. Games with large teams and no real matchmaking allow me to win more than 50% of the time - or at least feel like I do (eg. topping the leaderboard feels fine even if my team loses).
3. It's not fun being stunlocked 50% of your playtime. Fighting game characters hardly move as it is.
4. Fighting games all have this one screen with one objective, sometimes with cutscenes. It feels like a very bare bones genre. It's like you pay $60 to beat people up using some updated frame data. I feel like you're getting gipped, honestly.
5. A ninja, a robot, a dude with telekinesis, a cop, a soldier, and 42 martial artists describes most fighting game rosters. In other games, you can play as wizards, werewolves, a goblin riding an ogre. It's obvious what kind of people developers are making their game for and it's not me. KI has the best fighting game roster and it's still pretty simple.
3 is big problem with anime game. It didn't used to be like this due to small combos and string pushback. The anime community demands big combos and devs listen for whatever reason
Doing combos is fun. It's your reward for winning neutral. Getting combo'd, rightfully, sucks, but its also a chance to take a breather and think about how to avoid getting combo'd again, unless you are playing a crackhead game like Skullgirls where can't relax ever since you'll get reset to death if you do or KI with the whole combo breaker thing.
Matchmaking is for homosexuals anyway. You learn nothing by first to 2'ing someone and then moving on to the next random opponent. It doesn't allow for actual adaptation and counter adaptation and therefore disproportionally rewards gimmicks and knowledge checks.
If you want to actually improve go into a lobby, thread or server and find an opponent who is roughly around your level or better and play around 20 matches with him, then ask about the shit that you couldn't handle. >Hurf durf but I just wanna turn the game on and press a button to get into a match
Then stay shit and don't complain about losing.
This. Ranked sucks. Running long sets with a single person is not only more fun, but provides a waaay better environment for actually learning and picking up on a player's habits, bonus points if you are able ask the motherfricker questions.
Melee/PM has a lot of fundamental issues with shit like edgestalling, but it pretty elegantly makes combos feel like their own disadvantage state rather than "one player takes a breather while the other guy makes 1 (ONE) interesting choice before he just does a QTE" >DI means that Yomi never stops being relevant, as combos are almost never guaranteed, and must come from covering your opponent's options >When a player is hit outside of combo range and effectively reset to neutral, the time it takes for them to drift back to stage gives each player a chance to collect themselves >Platforms and stage dimensions makes map knowledge a factor for optimizing your punishes or escaping combos >The health of your opponent factors into the length of their hitstun and how far they'll get launched >Each character has their own individual properties for weight, fall speed, traction, and air control, meaning that combos can be matchup dependant >Each individual hitbox of an attack usually has distinct properties for damage and angle, rewarding precise spacing mid-combo
DI is smart for Smash, I'm just not sure I'd really care for it in a traditional fighting game context, if it'd even work at all. The only game that I can think of that has it is Soul Calibur, which I can't really comment on since I generally don't play 3D fighters.
I get that Smash is free form jazz, or whatever, but I like my fighting games more structured and consistent, and the little time you get to decompress in Melee I've always found kind of exhausting. Admittedly though, I just suck at melee, and really don't get how to avoid getting tech chased to death.
>Each character has their own individual properties for weight, fall speed, traction, and air control, meaning that combos can be matchup dependant
Plently of fighting games have these too, if mostly older ones and to a lesser extent than smash.
Not him but I'd love to see people try taking some inspiration from platform fighters in traditional fighting games. It would definitely require a lot of fine tuning but I think it could work really well. I've never played Soul Calibur much either so I can't say how it works there, but I can definitely see an oldschool style anime fighting game with crazy juggles and ground bounces and stuff, and then DI to let you try to squirm out of it.
I'd also like to see some experimentation with more interactive stages. If you could get platform movement to feel good in a traditional fighting game movement system that would be cool as hell. Like let you angle an airdash up or down 30 degrees and if you airdash at a platform you slide so you can IAD down for a not-wavedash. I've been playing MBAACC lately and the movement feels really good even just on a small flat stage.
2 years ago
Anonymous
While it has some flaws that bother me, the Touhou fighters really felt like they pushed the envelope in quite a few areas. I'm surprised more people haven't tried making something that weird.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I still haven't gotten around to trying Soku but I've watched a couple tournaments, it's definitely a wild game despite being weirdly slow and low damage, not what I would have expected. The weather system is wacky, there's one that just turns off blocking but gives everyone infinite hyperarmor.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, the game's setup is definitely odd. You'd expect a game with those kinds of movement options, that many projectiles and such powerful blockstrings to end quickly, but the combo limiter and tons of defensive options keeps it from being a two touch game, which would probably feel shitty to deal with. It's really cool and unique, but admittedly I'm not in love with certain aspects. Weather can be manipulated but stuff like River Mist and Typhoon isn't very fun, customization in a fighter is something I always found interesting, but the sucky part is that it sort of nerfs characters that don't have good default skills and need an alternate one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the card decks thing, that's such a cool idea. Normally I don't think I'd like RNG like that in a fighter but it seems really manageable and the way you spend cards to cast other cards seems really clever.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's one of those things that has its upsides and downsides. It's definitely fun, but it kind of unintentionally nerfs some moves and makes them hard to use in a real match. Like Meiling's default 214 is a dashing punch that can go through projectiles, but you can't really combo into it with anything. You need to include three of her default 214 card and then use that card three times for it to a hitbox on startup that allows you to combo into it. It's interesting on paper, but in practice it means you usually won't get to make use of it, so most people just put in an alternate 214. I like that it allows for a lot of experimentation, not just in terms of moveset customization, but in terms of what kinds of moves they can make up that fit the character. It's just a shame that some of these moves with great upgrades on level up tend to get ignored because it's not worth it.
>4. Fighting games all have this one screen with one objective, sometimes with cutscenes. It feels like a very bare bones genre. It's like you pay $60 to beat people up using some updated frame data. I feel like you're getting gipped, honestly.
I feel like fighters are theost content rich if you look at them for what they really are, rhythm strategy games with puzzle elements. 25-350 moves per character with moves that aren't binary and interact with each other in different ways and change depending on factors such as time and space. A simple jab can be an AA, a counterpoke, a high crush, a blockstring, a frame trap, an optimal poke, a reset, etc. all depending on the situation and every move has multiple utilities including reversal, low crush, side switch, juggle, and more. Fighters are filled with tools and properties you don't don't get in other games, especially the modern a room adventure game where every attack has a singular purpose and usually magnetizes ti the opponent to do a set amount of stun and damage when the devs want you to.
>5. A ninja, a robot, a dude with telekinesis, a cop, a soldier, and 42 martial artists describes most fighting game rosters. In other games, you can play as wizards, werewolves, a goblin riding an ogre. It's obvious what kind of people developers are making their game for and it's not me. KI has the best fighting game roster and it's still pretty simple.
Dark Awake for western fantasy
BlazBlue for jrpg shit
Darkstalkers for monsters
Injustice for capes
>4. Fighting games all have this one screen with one objective, sometimes with cutscenes. It feels like a very bare bones genre
This is why I never got into 1v1 fighters despite following the genre for some years. It's like a game with only combat practice but without the game (objective). NARAKA: Bladepoint is a fighting game and BR with very good balance of engagement/disengagement and chasing mechanics (in general you can't escape if the enemy commits into chasing)
Not him but I'd love to see people try taking some inspiration from platform fighters in traditional fighting games. It would definitely require a lot of fine tuning but I think it could work really well. I've never played Soul Calibur much either so I can't say how it works there, but I can definitely see an oldschool style anime fighting game with crazy juggles and ground bounces and stuff, and then DI to let you try to squirm out of it.
I'd also like to see some experimentation with more interactive stages. If you could get platform movement to feel good in a traditional fighting game movement system that would be cool as hell. Like let you angle an airdash up or down 30 degrees and if you airdash at a platform you slide so you can IAD down for a not-wavedash. I've been playing MBAACC lately and the movement feels really good even just on a small flat stage.
I think a well designed fighting game shouldn't feel like homework even when you're learning complicated stuff.
I don't think you actually want the progression to be slow, because that's boring. People don't actually want to do the hadouken hadouken hadouken DP hadouken sweep throw game that gets suggested for noobs, they want to dive in and mash with half an idea of what they're trying to do and have cool stuff happen that vaguely resembles their intention. That's why Tekken is such a casual favourite even though the actual game is really complex and difficult, the skill floor where the "the character does stuff" level is is basically nonexistent, no matter how you mash there's some kind of string that happens or a move that comes out, and then if you improve you start to learn what mashing does what thing and when which move is a good idea or not, but you don't need any understanding beyond where the buttons are to make stuff happen. In traditional fighting games, particularly link based ones like SF, if you're just hitting random buttons based on pure feeling, nothing is going to work at first.
That's one thing Strive does really well, which I actually didn't expect before it came out. They reduce the amount of options you have so much that usually you can only do one or two things in a situation by default, and at least one of those things is going to work. Opponent is right next to you and you have no idea what to do? Opponent is pretty far away but approaching and it's scary? It's fine, just press S>HS>Special>S>HS>super, if they get hit it's probably a combo, if they block it's a blockstring, if they're far you get Far Slash and if they're close you get Close Slash so it even chooses the best starting move for you, and if the combo drops it's fine because there's no air teching and you're probably safe. I was expecting not being able to just PKSHD to get in their way but it ended up accomplishing their goals really well, personal taste aside.
>I think a well designed fighting game shouldn't feel like homework even when you're learning complicated stuff. [...] they want to dive in and mash with half an idea of what they're trying to do and have cool stuff happen that vaguely resembles their intention.
Naraka has this. Even the noobest 1-2-3 spam can be a valid strategy if it's unexpected. Combos are relatively simple, and while they provide the most damage, simple attacks can be sufficient if you can make good reads and win the neutral:
Fighting games are unpopular because they lack intellectual depth or a truly engaging game world. SFV for example is a game where probably the #1 skill you need to maintain is perfect spacing: the actual *thought process* you must master is playing in one second blocks and constantly adjusting according to your opponents animation. This is extremely hard, but it isn’t that interesting.
Playing FGs competitively is mentally taxing to a majority of people and they can't handle taking the L themselves in their entertainment activity (gaming) while they are already reminded constantly with their RL activities. This is fair and all.
Playing FGs casually is the norm but homosexuals like cannot comprehend this concept and they have to use braincells to think of reasons to say why FGs sucks/are popular by their normalgay standards, which is funny because the same Gankerermins will cry about other popular games. Basically they hold these beliefs at the same time and it's hilarious >x is unpopular so it sucks >x is popular so it sucks
Because metaBlack folk suck all the fun out of it every single time in record time, not fun using the same 3 guys in the same way as your opponent in every single match for the entire games lifespan >but muh balance patches
Only a pendulum swift, makes the previous juggernauts worthless and the old dogwated ones the only ones worth using.
The only people who try to get others into fighters on this scrub board only do so because they don't want to be at the very bottom themselves, hoping to find some scrub to destroy.
You can see the answer in lol and wow
People don't want to wipe and they get angry if you make two mistakes in mobas
In the end you get a sheltered person who is gonna get raped 40 times instead of 1 time in the same amount of time
Losing feels bad, and developers haven't put a lot of thought into creating a more enjoyable scoring experience with unlockables and customization. Fighting games are the most corrupt money extracting piles of shit on the market. Core gameplay isn't fun to majority of players, and lack of rewards turns them away. Doesn't help that figureheads of the genre like Street Fighter launch full-assed games at launch like Street Fighter 5, as if first impressions don't matter; and have awful load times for the amount of game you experience.
>Noooooo! Why aren't thing artificially locked behind a grind! I don't have an incentive to play if I don't get the dopamine hit if unlocking something new every few minutes!
Been playing fighting games since 1992, zoom zoom. Fighting games in their current state are the scummiest they've ever been. Sorry you didn't get to live through the era where you could unlock characters and costumes through playing the games. These tightass Japanese developers need to stop nickel and diming the six sad motherfrickers that still buy fighting games. Stockholm syndrome having morons.
I guess it makes sense, fighting games being dominant on consoles still. The most abused morons in the world. Pay for console > Pay to play Peer to Peer games against friends > Pay for Game > Pay for characters > Pay for stages > Pay for Music > Pay to customize colors > Pay for costumes > Pay > Pay > Pay piggy, pay. Oink oink.
>Fighting games in their current state are the scummiest they've ever been.
Truth.
I yearn for the days of the early 00s like you can't imagine. Tight communities, amazing games, no matchmaking/ranking moron shit.
No they aren't. Did you forget about shit like MK3 to UMK3 or Alpha 1 to Alpha 3 both costing $50 and releasing a few months from each other? Or how about XvSF to MvSF to MvC releasing months from each other and losing characters (Ram issues but still)?
>Japanese developers need to stop nickel and diming the six sad motherfrickers that still buy fighting games
if this was such a root issue why hasn't AAA died out yet?
>if this was such a root issue why hasn't AAA died out yet?
No clue.
Watercooler gaming. I ran into this with co-workers who would talk to me about whatever gun shooty military man game they were playing, and then they'd end the conversation with an appeal to get me to try it and I'd just shrug it off. Like popular television, movies, or radio shows. Something common for people to talk about? Would be nice if AAA would die the frick off, in the meantime I'll just sit over here and enjoy the seething over Activision knowing they only publish something that pops on my radar maybe once a decade.
>developers haven't put a lot of thought into mtx and FOMO >That's why they're most corrupt and money extracting games on the market
Fricking seriously?
There's valid complaints to make about the reliance on season pass DLC models and soft launches despite the benefits they also offer, but "pure gameplay focus that you can easily put thousands of hours into on one purchase" is as far from the israeli, moneygrubbing, exploitative bullshit in the rest of the industry as you can get. This is an industry where people spend tens of fricking thousands of dollars on gacha rolls, pay monthly subscriptions for access to a game and then buy p2w bonuses on top of that, put pay to skip grind in AAA singleplayer games etc. >The fighting game charged me 5$ for a new character a month after launch alongside the free balance update
is one of the least abusive examples possible.
>This is an industry where people spend tens of fricking thousands of dollars on gacha rolls, pay monthly subscriptions for access to a game and then buy p2w bonuses on top of that, put pay to skip grind in AAA singleplayer games etc.
And yet the genre of fighting games struggles to maintain a stable player base. Simple fact of the matter is fighting games need to adapt. If you're sinking thousands of hours in one purchase the least these wienersuckers can do is allow you to customize your base outfit colors like Capcom Vs. SNK 2 allowed players to do. I'm a big fighting game fan, but I'm not going to defend the bullshit fighting game fans put up with, and if you're willing to that's your problem. Enjoy watching the genre fade into the past, and stinky Mash Bros overrun your territory. I would go so far as to say the online versus mode should be free on all platforms. If you're autistic enough to enjoy the story modes, or lonely enough to lab, then you can purchase the full game; but F2P versus mode would be a net benefit to the genre. We have dumbass kids out here sitting in matchmaking lobbies to play battle royal and shooting games, F2P fighting game would be fast as hell and could fill small windows of free time when you want to play something; but don't have time for a more fleshed out or complex game.
The battered wives of Capcom will argue against this.
Fighting games are more popular now than they have been since SF2
Yeah there's features that should be standard. It took most of them a fricking decade to figure out usable netcode. There still isn't a single one with a decent ranked algorithm. Frame data in training mode is a fricking controversy for some reason.
And yet the people that actually want to play fighting games still do, and the people that just want to cry on the internet still don't.
Ultimately, there's nothing you can do that will make people that don't want to sit and 1v1 someone in a purely skill based, difficult game if they don't find it fun, None of the things people say are keeping them out actually are. They used to swear up and down that if you made decent tutorials casuals would play, now games have decent tutorials and you still get all the same complaints just with "tutorial" replaced by "singleplayer." People used to say they'd play when they stopped having to rebuy the game every version, now that it's just DLC and versions updates are free they use that as an excuse instead.
Would you get somewhat increased numbers if you somehow successfully implemented all the same skinner box bullshit that fills most of the rest of the industry? Sure, you'd probably earn more money too because the only reason any of that shit exists is to sell more garbage.
But it wouldn't make me enjoy the games any more, so I'd rather they put the work into making more characters, music, polishing the netcode, improving training mode etc.
>The battered wives of Capcom will argue against this.
Nah, I actually never bought SFV because they never actually fixed the netcode. But also, I don't really like SF anyway, so I don't care what they do much. I just play the games I like and think are worth putting time in without needing incentives and unlockables.
Because there is nothing to blame other then your own (lack of) skill when you lose.
Many people can't handle how shit they actually are when faced with the facts.
Normies dont like having to blame themselves on their losses. Also getting good at fighting games is incredibly hard and casuals dont wanna put in the work neccessary.
My guess is that in 1v1 games people are more afraid to lose a game where the entirety of the outcome rests on His or Her shoulders. In team games You may win or lose, but wins come more frequently as a "bad player" playing team games and the losses don't feel as heavy in team games because the blame is spreadout among Your allies.
All of that is exactly why I prefer 1v1 games. Win or lose, it's all on me. That's way better than losing because I had literal children or morons on my team, or worse, *I* was the moron.
I've been trying out SFV again and the combos and specials still feel like shit to me compared to every other fighting game I've ever played. When I try to do clean inputs for things in combos it never works but if I just wiggle 2323 I can get DPs with ease. V is the only SF I've ever tried so I don't know if older SFs were like this as well but if so I can sort of understand why regular people who've only tried that franchise for fighting games would dislike DP motions.
Because it cannot function unless both players are on a somewhat level playing field or one party doesn't mind going through dozens of hours before he can get a single win.
hard to love swallowing an ego while getting beat on endlessly to get the the point where you even feel in control of your character. trust me, i wish i loved them too. they look so fun but playing them isnt until it starts to click, and for most if its not in the first couple hours, its easier to just play something immediately fun or easier to not feel terrible about a loss in like a team game.
>hard to love swallowing an ego while getting beat on endlessly to get the the point where you even feel in control of your character
My homie, what ego could you even have if you just started a game? How fricking insane must you be to develop an ego for a game you just started? The fricks the matter with you. You barely know anything, what in the world constitutes the creation of your ego to begin with to swallow?
The thinking from people who don't play fighting games is probably
>I am good at video games (like JRPGs lol) >That means I should be good at fighting games >I can't lose in fighting games...the genre must be shit (see
1v1 fighting games exposes people with fragile egos to the fact that they aren't as good at video games as they thought. These people will think up any cope they can instead of realizing that they aren't good and they don't want to get better
>muh metagays >muh matchmaking >muh inputs >muh archaic game design)
>hard to love swallowing an ego while getting beat on endlessly to get the the point where you even feel in control of your character
My homie, what ego could you even have if you just started a game? How fricking insane must you be to develop an ego for a game you just started? The fricks the matter with you. You barely know anything, what in the world constitutes the creation of your ego to begin with to swallow?
yeah thats what i meant. but i dont think the genre is shit, i just dont like the hurdle to enjoy playing them so they arent for me. im great at team games or single player ones but fighting game are the exact opposite so it hits my pride.
I hope SF6 will have a larger player base. I'd be so insanely happy if the game averaged like 10k on steam and had crossplay with Xbox and PS. I'd be able to keep playing instead of turning off the game after 12pm cause queue times jumping to 10+ minutes.
>Even RTS games are way way more popular and also considered "dead"
My matchmaking in SC2 is literally 10-20 seconds. SC2 probably has more people playing at one time than every fighting game's peak put together
No, the best we got is rankedftw which isn't very reliable. They were roughly 240k unique players played at the start of the new season yesterday. The numbers a little less cause some players will play more than one race and on different regions, still a huge number compared to fighting games. Even at the lowest points there's 25k players
Co-op mode also happens to be more popular than 1v1 so add a ton of people on top of that. Plus there's team games (4v4 etc) too, and also custom games.
1v1 fighting games exposes people with fragile egos to the fact that they aren't as good at video games as they thought. These people will think up any cope they can instead of realizing that they aren't good and they don't want to get better
>muh metagays >muh matchmaking >muh inputs >muh archaic game design
Give me a 1v1 game that feels like an offline 1v1. I want to just keep playing, but these homosexual fighting games kick you out to a menu after every fight. It sucks ass
Because there's no one to blame but yourself when you lose. Its not like a 5v5 moba where you can blame a shitty off lane or some 3v3 and one of your teammates was shit.
Thats why people who play 1v1 games will seethe about "balance" >I lost because you're using a crutch character! >I lost because you played scrubby! >I lose because uh ITS NOT MY FAULT I SUCK
>5FM has been deposited in your account
Nobody that actually understands what that means gives a flying frick how many copies Dicks will have sold in 2029 try to be less blatant with your FOMO pitch
Yeah by virtue of being only a single extra meter instead of a weird double meter but I'd still rather play a fighting game where so much of the basic movesets and mechanics aren't locked behind multiple different resources.
Every uninformed comment about fighting games thinks every fighter is Hokuto no Ken infinites and unfair match-ups.
This is the imaginary game haters think without even knowing it.
HnK? My homie.
Dont forget the fact that QMZ uses jagi which is literally the worst character in the game with TWO 9:1 matchups and he is capable to win matches like nothing.
The announcers going fricking crazy when QMZ lands Jagi's instant kill is the best. >QMZ perfects a Toki! (a bunch of players and commentators die laughing in the background) >RAKANGEKIIIIIII >ICHIGEKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII HE LOST TO JAGI >SOKO NI SUWARE
I wonder if anons would be interested in learning this game
Looking forward to Multiverse's and Project L coming out and absolutely BTFO all modern Japanese fighting games. They are archaic and poorly designed, but luckily competent devs are finally coming to save fighting games.
DNF did what Project L us planning and it's already dying. Multiversus will get the Brawlhalla audience, but I doubt it's going to make an impact in the FGC. A lot of these accessibile games are just really shallow and one note. That's fine for a single player adventure game like Elden Ring, but when you have a hardcore community that enjoys putting in hundreds or even thousands of hours into a game, you need more.
top tier netcode
high population
crossplay (if also on console)
a good MMR ranked system (no SFV's system isn't good)
some sort of social hub or way to interact with people besides pre-made phrases and arcsys meme rooms
Its not the worst system but its not good. Its shit cause it compresses most of the player base into the bottom ranks which leads to wide skill disparity in low ranks and slow matchmaking in higher ranks. Another reason is because of the way it matches you within 1 rank. You can be a fresh Plat and face someone at 11k and get crushed or a 6.5k and crush them, leading to very volatile matchmaking. An MMR system would smooth out the player distribution and lead to consistent matchmaking times at all ranks and more even and less volatile matches too.
SFV is better than shit like what Strive has but its pretty bad compared to every other genre. Yet another thing fightans are behind in.
Mental gymnastics don't work as well when you're alone, so you have to shoulder responsibility for your loss to some extent and you don't have a team to help you either
Unlike a normal FPS you can't rely on learning the basic mechanics, need to learn at least the basics of the other characters in order to counter them and feel competitive because you're not on even grounds
Unlike battle royale/card games, you can't chalk it up to luck
It takes a long time to git gud
They're fun when you have friends to play with, since you're all just fricking around, but in online play against strangers? Your only option is playing for rank and that invites a competitive mindset
is it possible to teach someone how to play fighting games at a very basic fundamental level if they've never touched a fighting game before in their life, and could you do it within 15 minutes?
If I had to try, I'd show them movement, normal moves, blocking, sweeps, how to do a throw and break a throw, and maybe one special move like a projectile, and I'd tell them to try to land a sweep as much as possible and block on wakeup if they get knocked down. Would that still be too much?
you can tell them those things but unless they play against someone who is literally not trying or another person who has never touched a fighting game, i doubt they will even remember half of what you said when they start getting hit.
the first thing they could learn how to do is block, and the one teaching them can limit themselves to only the most basic basic strings, not giant bombos that make them wanna quit because it sucks to watch a movie of your character getting rocked and not even knowing how it happened.
i agree. the process would have to be slow and metered. the thing about learning fighting games is that unless the person REALLY wants to learn and get better, its gonna feel like homework.
yea, exactly. no one wants to tentatively try out a new thing and have a 5" thick textbook dropped on their lap. people go about introducing new players to fighting games like that and it's all wrong. simple concepts like how fast moves counterhit slower ones by interrupting them, or how to block high or low depending on what move is coming, etc, should be taught one at a time with examples. even the best tutorials in fighting games don't seem to really explain it that well, and they're long and tedious.
I think Core-A was the youtuber that explained how they taught their friends the fundamentals of fighting games by reducing SFV to throws and sweeps, and only adding new moves in after they'd gotten the hang of just those two tools and playing matches with them. THAT's the way to do it, keep it fun without being overwhelming and introduce new concepts one part at a time.
I think a well designed fighting game shouldn't feel like homework even when you're learning complicated stuff.
I don't think you actually want the progression to be slow, because that's boring. People don't actually want to do the hadouken hadouken hadouken DP hadouken sweep throw game that gets suggested for noobs, they want to dive in and mash with half an idea of what they're trying to do and have cool stuff happen that vaguely resembles their intention. That's why Tekken is such a casual favourite even though the actual game is really complex and difficult, the skill floor where the "the character does stuff" level is is basically nonexistent, no matter how you mash there's some kind of string that happens or a move that comes out, and then if you improve you start to learn what mashing does what thing and when which move is a good idea or not, but you don't need any understanding beyond where the buttons are to make stuff happen. In traditional fighting games, particularly link based ones like SF, if you're just hitting random buttons based on pure feeling, nothing is going to work at first.
That's one thing Strive does really well, which I actually didn't expect before it came out. They reduce the amount of options you have so much that usually you can only do one or two things in a situation by default, and at least one of those things is going to work. Opponent is right next to you and you have no idea what to do? Opponent is pretty far away but approaching and it's scary? It's fine, just press S>HS>Special>S>HS>super, if they get hit it's probably a combo, if they block it's a blockstring, if they're far you get Far Slash and if they're close you get Close Slash so it even chooses the best starting move for you, and if the combo drops it's fine because there's no air teching and you're probably safe. I was expecting not being able to just PKSHD to get in their way but it ended up accomplishing their goals really well, personal taste aside.
This is a disingenuous argument. Introducing a multiplayer component to anything increases the difficulty of a game because it is inherently harder playing against a human opponent over an AI.
So to answer your question properly, you'd have to answer if a person can learn everything they need to easily beat the Story or Arcade Mode of a fighting game in 15 minutes and the answer is obviously yes.
In 15 minutes, that would probably be too much to cover at once for there to any real retention. Make it, like, a couple half-hour long sessions over the course of like, a few days and you'd probably be able to get somewhere if you played your cards right, but I think it would also hinge on how good of a teacher you are and how much the person you're trying to teach gives a shit.
I was tournament level back in SF4 from around 2010-2012 and it was the most fun I've ever had with video games, but now I fell like such a washed up has been it's unreal.
i wasn't a competitive player in sf4 but had over 4000pp. i transitioned to sfv and got my ass mollywopped and could barely hold on to diamond. i blame it on fathertime
It has a general on /vg/ and still sitting at a healthy 1400-1500 players so I'd say it's still kicking since it's been 4-5 weeks. I'm more sad about what happened to Type Lumina after a month.
Unfortunately its just not a very good game. Melty is also a established franchise in name alone and not player base. So they really needed the game to be good to stick around and its not. Whats more shameful is how fast/far UN fell after Cl-r. Somewhat because covid killed the tournament momentum but also the lack of rollback and weird frame drops on PSN.
That reminds me of that UNI documentary that came out before the last EVO IIRC saying how important the feeling of grassroots was to the community. So much for that I guess.
At one point UNI was pulling in big numbers for a niche anime fighter at a bunch of major tournament sign ups which is why McRib made a big deal about making it a main game at the EVO before he got ousted.
It's pretty funny seeing how MBTL's peak is 10x that of UNI on PC yet their player counts aren't too far apart from eachother.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'd love to hear Kamone's thoughts on MBTL's launch
Obviously it sold a shitload more than they planned so financially the game was a massive success, but it must kind of sting to see a hundred thousand people go "Wow, this stinks actually, what was I excited for again?"
I wonder if he wishes he'd done things differently or if he's happy just making the game he feels like and doesn't care about anyone else's opinions.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If like usual japan cares only about its native fanbase, he probably doesn't care all that much because MBTL tournaments are still going strong.
2 years ago
Anonymous
god, I'm still mad about TL
it literally just needs like two fricking changes to get people to at least try it again >remove autocombo (at the minimum, remove it on A) >remove shield RPS (honestly, I hate everything about TL shield, it isn't fun to play around)
pretty major system changes, but frick, you went from a 12k simultaneous launch to sub-1k in a month
it needs more work than that, but those are the two big "nope, I'm out" things
people were excited for the game and were disappointed that it was shit
apparently they made so much money that they can release the DLC for free though since they absolutely did not expect this to be a 12k at launch game
but big system changes are needed if they want to actually recover players (and rebranding those changes as another revision so people actually play, given for free since people got burned)
Kamone either doesn't give a shit or is too prideful to accept he made a mistake. Either way, he clearly isn't gonna change the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
We're still within a year of MBTL's release and FB's first iteration usually tend to be rough.
If we're talking changes, we'd really need to wait until a new version of the game. Reminder that UNI's first iteration was filled with infinite time-outs with no limits to ground/wall bounces.
MBTL feels a bit more polished than that but as we've abundantly mentioned our issues with its universal systems, we still have no idea how it may change in the future.
But for now in this cycle until the end of this year where the last new character is added, there's no point in expecting anything big.
2 years ago
Anonymous
honestly, I think it's the usual "japanese devs don't pay attention to player complaints, especially international player complaints" shit
I also don't expect changes, he got my money already, he's got no reason to fix shit.
JUST USE MMR FOR MATCHMAKING
FRICK THESE RANK SYSTEMS AND moronic SHIT LIKE FLOORS TOO
strive's floor system seems reasonable right up until you enter floor 10 and it just pools every random moron who is half-competent into the same room (but you also get like lv900 "I play this game 25 hours a day" people showing up too)
2 years ago
Anonymous
Every major [st] showed up in had bigger numbers than the last.
I blame MBTL's unsatisfying combo system, shields, and clashes that incredibly lessened its staying power.
And certain character's reliance on the autocombo's 2nd hit to course correct damn near everything.
[st] had four different bumps in popularity so it was only a matter of time the hype died down after such an eventful life.
That reminds me of that UNI documentary that came out before the last EVO IIRC saying how important the feeling of grassroots was to the community. So much for that I guess.
MBTL's ""community"" was co-opted by fake-ass "it will save fighting games" and "funny cat xD" memelords
it literally just needs like two fricking changes to get people to at least try it again >remove autocombo (at the minimum, remove it on A) >remove shield RPS (honestly, I hate everything about TL shield, it isn't fun to play around)
pretty major system changes, but frick, you went from a 12k simultaneous launch to sub-1k in a month
it needs more work than that, but those are the two big "nope, I'm out" things
people were excited for the game and were disappointed that it was shit
apparently they made so much money that they can release the DLC for free though since they absolutely did not expect this to be a 12k at launch game
but big system changes are needed if they want to actually recover players (and rebranding those changes as another revision so people actually play, given for free since people got burned)
>people were excited for the game and were disappointed that it was shit
I got really REALLY worried when match footage videos they released weekly, and to a lesser extent character trailers, heavily featured the autocombo blip on the side constantly showing up.
More than half of the mission mode combos are fricking unnecessary mash x to complete but complaining about this feels like a moot point to begin with because the combo variety is ridiculously low.
the worst thing is how I learned from my mistake of buying it on release by not buying kofxv at all after I heard the 1st week and onwards matchmaking issues and getting strive half a year after release at half price, but then gave in like moron and bought release dnf the exact same way just because of my half decade fond barely there memory of playing troubleshooter before I quit mmos completely.
I bought it on release mostly because I was itching for a new fighter and I got to S-rank, beat ChrisG in the mirror, and "kind of" enjoyed it before I really came to understand how limited the combo system was.
It really wasn't for me.
>players who pick top tier characters force me to pick another top tier character to have a chance >absolute madman with experience whoops my ass with a low tier
I think I love fighting games haha
if skill is the only factor that matters a skilled player will know every time when a physical limitation (netcode or just ping) has robbed him of an advantage
if you let two teams compete this can be compensated by the difference of teamwork
if you remove the reaction based skill and replaceit with rng you will get duel games that are quite popular such as hearthstone
I hope they don't frick up SF6's ranked matchmaking. Would be nice if they did something to spread out the ranks amongst the player base. 80% of the player base is in bronze and silver and the matchmaking gets pretty slow the higher you go from my experience. Make everyone start at Gold and let people drop or rise as they start. Better yet have placement matches against real players.
Just fricking use Elo or Glicko or whatever MMR system instead. This is a solved problem and has been since before videogames were a thing. You can even still split the playerbase into arbitrary ranks, just go "500 Elo and below is bronze, 700-900 is gold, 900-1100 is platinum, 2400+ is Immortal Master Shitfricker" whatever
What are the disadvantages of not using MMR really? The matches are way more even though did hear CoD homosexuals crying over SBMM being a problem somehow
Doesn't keep the 1% grinding 10 billion games for Grand Ass Master Triple Prime Omega Alpha Turbo Plus and a spot on a leaderboard like they needed in arcades
Dota and SC2 both have MMRs and the turbo autists would try to be the first 10k MMR player etc where they'd gain like 1 point for beating another pro lol
Yeah people still grind points in ELO style systems but they aren't geared towards it and it's not as accessible to do so. Jive is really the fricking worst because most of the audience is stuck in Bronze hell anyways.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Probably more the Dota 2/CSGO style where there's MMR but you're technically Global Elite or Immortal
2 years ago
Anonymous
Even iRacing that has a very transparent and strictly implemented system (that is flawed anyways) people are out there annihilating people for 2 rating points in off hours or beginner cars to make number go up.
This is actually surprisingly close to an ideal distribution but you can see the numbers are hilariously stretched out on the upper side because there's zillions of abandoned trial account shitters feeding points into the system.
Fighting games as a whole have the worst online experience I've ever seen out of any video game genre. Maybe the western stuff is better, but the Japanese developers really dragged it down for so long. More than anything else, that's what's prevented me from spending more time with fighting games.
It literally took a global pandemic for these moronic Jap devs to implement decent online
Combination of isolationism and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here really fricked up FG's evolution. Project L might be shit but it'll at least show this devs what a modern game system is supposed to look like.
gotta learn when to press your 4f button after blocking, i assure you it's one of those things you learn once and then frick the other guy in the ass every single time afterwards
You're not moronic enough to lose to this are you? Stop being afraid of fighting games
you know, i'd advocate for a proper punish, but i think doing that sends a better message
Only fighting games, my dude. I'll play card games, board games, puzzle games, strategy games, etc., but I derive little pleasure from fighting games, especially now that most of them have basically no singleplayer content, they're all just trying to be competitive.
Strive feels like a bit of a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, trying to do things differently just for the sake of being different. I actually like Strive (when I'm not playing against some characters) but boy did they make some incredibly stupid decisions.
If you still play this genre after putting 1k~ hours in it you're moronic. Fighting game devs don't give a single shit about their games, why the frick should you? Hopefully everyone realizes how terrible these games actually are and drop fighting games completely. I'm not even talking about the gameplay, it's how these morons can barely update their game to fix bugs and can't even have normal ranked/matchmaking or working online lobbies at least. Every single fighting game must have a glaring flaw and it's not even hard to not have them, they just want to make these games shitter for some reason. DNF and Strive are on the same fricking engine yet DNFs training mode is much more shittier than Strives, why? Absolutely no reason for it, they just want to make it shittier. Arcsys is a joke and it's sad that these are the only """popuar""" fighting games out now.
I really hope Capcom absolutely kills this company but SF6 looks like shit in terms of gameplay and how it feels.
All in all if you still play FGs after putting a thousand hours in the genre you're just a complete moron. Play something better.
Most of the game was developed by 8ing and not Arcsys though if you're talking about DNF. They only use the same engine for Xrd.
Also you don't need to put 1000 hours to have fun. You can have fun from the jump just learning the ins and outs of the games. The fun is the journey, not reaching the endgame.
I got curious and wanted to compare AoE2's 1v1 ranked numbers to SFV's, but the CFN ranking list caps out at page 100 because Capcom can't even do that right, so I used Strive with ratingupdate.info instead.
AoE2 has way higher player numbers than any fighting game on steam, but it also has a large portion of its playerbase only doing singleplayer or team modes.
Comparing https://aoe2.net/#aoe2de-leaderboard-rm-1v1 with 41k players having played a 1v1 ranked match in the last month to http://ratingupdate.info/stats with 29k having played a game in the tower in the last week, they seem pretty equivalent. Strive's is significantly lower but also a significantly smaller collection period.
I thought that was interesting. It definitely lends some credence to the "competitive 1v1 is only ever going to be so popular" theory.
Fighting games are only good when you are 12 years old and in a pizza restaurant arcade with other kids.
In that setting you can beat them up IRL of they start playing with bad manners, which is the intended correction method.
Internet 1v1 fighting games you cannot get satisfaction vs a little homosexual autismo who needs to be put in his place and given a reality check.
>mfw little nerdc**t playing the characters he's bad at to give me a chance, otherwise he knows he will get rolled again
I feel morons on v spam this thread so much because fighting games produces so much seething on one hand and on the other they just want some waifu posting. Other than that, they have no idea how to play a fighting game nor they want to learn
Strive and DNF has made so many fighting game threads pop up and I fricking hate it
God damn fighting game discussions on this board are painful to read, it's literally motion inputs or Cammy being censored
Go back to whatever shithole genre you crawled out of
the same reason arena shooters like qc die, as much as i like playing qc i can absolutely see why someone wouldnt want to pick it up, doesnt make them right because their attitude is a losing one, but its at least understandable. you see people that know the maps in and out and have internal clocks ready to touch every power up the second they appear and its daunting, most people have brains rotted by team based shooters and flavor of the month instant gratification, its a steep hill to climb out of, going from "oh i can just win or lose and it doesnt matter" to "if i lose its entirely on me because im the worse player." not only this but afps has the difference (with exception to qc in some regard) of no defense or johns for even matchups, its ENTIRELY on you, not a matchup, not an ability, you are on equal ground with the person you are playing against and when you lose there is absolutely no excuse possible, you just have to eat the loss and move on, and most people simply cant handle it.
arenashitter delusion, people don't want to play your shit game because basically every mechanic is based around deemphasising aim skill in an fps, rapha fricking ruined quake
nobody cares about your excellent aim if you cant properly move around a map and understand mechanics other than "aim and shoot the head." sounds like someone cant count time in their head.
i'm just telling you why your shit first person item timer and run away from-er is dead, stop pretending it's because quake is too awesome for the plebs to understand
poor bait, i could care less that people dont want to play them and i said i understand why, its better that you freaks stay away from it anyways, i will continue having fun with my friends, enjoy your endless ranked team based fps solo queue experience, im sure you will climb up a singular rank next week champ!
Fighting game devs put in 0 effort to keep players in any single game, thinking the gameplay itself will keep the game crowded
Inevitably that backfires, and they move on developing the next game for that quick cash flow, leaving the game you've invested so much time in in the dust
What incentives would you have in mind to keep players interested in the game? Monthly balance patches? Costumes? They can't simply pump out a new character every month since it takes time to fit a new character into a game and balance it accordingly unless they cut said content and release it like a service game.
>matchmaking like league
The silliest thing I've seen honestly. People are that stupid that they need a big play button to figure out how to use online modes.
yeah because celestial in strive is sooooooo kino, i love it when people constantly dodge slightly bad MUs
or xrd rooms, so fricking good when you either fight a light blue moron or a pink god
seriously have a nice day
>league
you wouldn't like fighting games, moba players have slow brains and cannot handle fast action. moba tards have less braincells than console shooter players
>league
you wouldn't like fighting games, moba players have slow brains and cannot handle fast action. moba tards have less braincells than console shooter players
>there are people on this board who STILL CANNOT do the dpm
Honestly it's embarrassing.
So... we gonna this into talking about his wife....right guys??
>Nightmare theater
the devs wanted it this way
Serves him right for playing animeshit
>edgelord Black person pretending he plays fighting games
MK and SFV are even worse with outrageous pressure, frick you on?
This better be bait
but it's true anime games usually give you a gorillion different defensive options while sf you have to know when to get out. are we gonna pretend like xrd doesn't have blitz, da, ib, fd?
and obviously theres people like fricking millia that keep you in looping setplay with 70 different options but cmon now.
Max is the normie gateway into fighting games. People expecting him to be some sort of top level competitor are morons.
I hate this about him, he doesn't actually play that many fighting games and he's not particularly good at them. His big original claim to fame was just making videos where he'd rate how cool super animations looked. Which did pretty well since normies really don't usually care about much more than which character looks the flashiest
>normies
Also, isn't that why flashy action games like DMC and anime fightans are popular with Ganker and everywhere else? Not that there's anything wrong with liking them.
Normies don't even like DMC that much, 5 got into the eyes of normies because of the announcement and Devil Trigger memes, same with Strive's "that is bullshit blazing"
People expect him not to be a b***h.
>jew
>not a b***h
pick one
He got shmixed 5 times and he had a chance to parry
>Whining about Slayer damage well claiming to be a GG vet
>Letting Slayer do 2D on block point blank because you're a scrub mashing Baiken counter with no thought
>Make tweet crying and never return to Rev1/2 because you're a fraud
Max is a egotistical no chin piece of garbage whose only good content was saying Black person.
baiken is exclusive to rev2, new friend
>jokes about this shit from time to time
I'm happy for the dood, at least he has some self awareness about his dumb shit.
sauce?
I don't see anything wrong with this
its really frustrating trying to lean the game when there's no one at your skill level to play with
no one wants to get perfected by autistic veterans and you learn nothing from it
you completely misunderstand the fgc then
the entire point is to get absurdly good at something only your niche community understands because no one else cares
this is why smash, sfv, dbfz, and strive are bad games in their eyes, but shit like melty blood, blazblue, and and sfiii are apparently "good"
"real" fighting games have to combine vague bullshit with consistency to appeal to this crowd
I understand fgc, I just disregard them as completely autistic
still waiting on rising thunder 2 to save fighting games forever
because I need instant gratification and don't want to actually improve
Too exhausting
Chess is one of the most popular games in the world
Yes, true. Though chess only requires good decision making, not proper finger dexterity.
I always loose the the computer in chess but, its no match for me at kick boxing
Because most use a poorly balanced matchmaking system that makes it completely unfun to play.
There's a fine line between "a challenging opponent" and "I literally didn't get to even play the game"
Matchmaking is better than it has ever been and there hasn't been a poorly balanced matchmaking system in fighting games since the dawn of SBMM. You're just a 100% beginner and/or worse than the average player so you lose. Fricking cope you homosexual. You'd b***h this hard if you lost to some russian because you stepped into the wrong Q3 lobby as quick as you'd shit your pants losing to some mexican in a fighting game in 2022. You've just been coddled into thinking this one genre needs to be fixed and saved like a fricking journo.
The amount of projection in this reddit post is staggering.
>there hasn't been a poorly balanced matchmaking system in fighting games since the dawn of SBMM
It's time for me to bust out this personal story again.
>play MKX
>has matchmaking
>play through story
>play a bunch of arcade
>learn some nice 30%+ combos for my guy
>go into multiplayer
>after one minute get matched with opponent
>my opponent has over 3000 games played
>the game predicts i have a 0% chance of winning
>i still play against my opponent for like 5-7 matches to see how i can do against a top end player and to improve
Is this skill based match making? Am I really about even in skill with great players in my very first pvp match? That's amazing. I'm not even mad.
>mortal kombat
Strive and SFV are full of beginners and shitters
It really isn't
Fighting games always try to do some moronic emotionally manipulative fake rating system to try to convince people to grind ranked endlessly. Why do you get more points in Tekken for beating someone the same rank as you than beating someone above you? Why is the way the points distributed designed to score you based on your winrate and not designed to match you against people you should have a 50% winrate against? Why use bullshit points and not just use fricking Elo in the first place? What the frick were they thinking with Strive's system in general?
I think in theory Strive's ranking system works fine, it just can't recover from so many people scamming themselves to celestial week 1 without having to play anyone actually good because it takes too few matches to change rank for how few ranks there are. In general that one fairly short hot/lucky streak could take you from floor 8 to VIP in only a few opponents is a flaw.
It generally works in a sense that you can find matches with similarly skilled players but the implementation is demented. I don't think it works in theory because just going by the math, you're basically guaranteed to end up with everyone stuck in floors 8-10 with the lower floors being completely unused. But the real bugbear is the incredibly dumb decision to interrupt sets with floor changes. It's like the incentive to get to Celestial is that you stop having to deal with that shit.
Do you rank up at sub 50% win rates below 8?
For whatever inane reason, Strive's floor system prevents you from dropping two floors from your highest watermark no matter how many losses you take. So if you get into floor 10 at any point, which is fairly easy even if you're just going on luck, you can't drop below floor 8. So from the math it's pretty obvious that everyone that plays the game is eventually going to funnel upwards.
Also if you get into Celestial you can no longer drop below floor 10.
Doing that would make sense if it wasn't for the issue of ranks changing too fast so you can luck your way up ridiculously high I already said.
The whole idea of VIP/Celestial does screw things up though by basically rapturing the top of the matchmaking pyramid so there's no downward pressure even besides people jumping the line when there was no hierarchy.
>worse than the average player so you lose
this is exactly what SBMM avoids though, shitters play with shitters so they lose less and winners play with winners so they win less
SBMM doesn't work unless you add in bots. You end up with long ass queues when no one is your range.
>matchmaking in fighting games
The least optimal way to learn them since most games have low population
Matchmaking is for homosexuals anyway. You learn nothing by first to 2'ing someone and then moving on to the next random opponent. It doesn't allow for actual adaptation and counter adaptation and therefore disproportionally rewards gimmicks and knowledge checks.
If you want to actually improve go into a lobby, thread or server and find an opponent who is roughly around your level or better and play around 20 matches with him, then ask about the shit that you couldn't handle.
>Hurf durf but I just wanna turn the game on and press a button to get into a match
Then stay shit and don't complain about losing.
This is lying cope. MM is fine. You’re getting matched with people in your level and if you aren’t that means no one is playing your game. I don’t know why people bring up these stupid fricking excuses every time this dumb thread is made. It’s simple. People don’t like losing and fighting games are a genre where losing is the apex of demoralization. Anons just need to be real with themselves and stop trying to revolutionize the wheel. It’s wheel, it doesn’t what it needs to do and that’s it.
>people don't like losing
ah yeah that's why brawlhalla is popular, everyone is winning there and no one loses
Isn't brawlhalla mostly 4 player FFA? I tried it once and that was what seemed like the default. There were also weird items and stuff like you could grab weapons. It really wasn't anything like a real fighting game.
Fighting game matchmaking is still garbage though.
it's a 1v1 and 2v2 game
weapons aren't random, every char has 2 and that's how the game works
also who the frick cares that it isn't like a "real" fighting game? it's a 1v1 game and you lose if you're bad yet it's still popular than all FGs combined
>who the frick cares that it isn't like a "real" fighting game?
People who like fighting games.
cool, the post that I replied to doesn't mention anything about that
have fun with your dead games though, imagine thinking 1k players on steam is a good number
Brawlhalla has basically the same numbers as AoE2, which isn't actually significantly more popular 1v1 competitive than the more popular fighting games.
Have you got stats for active players in 1v1 ranked or something? I'd be interested to see that.
But regardless, people that like fighting games obviously aren't going to want them to turn into not-fighting games just to try to attract people that don't like fighting games. I'd be extremely happy with 1k players in a game I actually like compared to 15k in a game I don't. It doesn't matter how many people play Fortnite, I'm still not interested in it.
Cool, keep playing your dead games while I can find players anytime I want with crossplay with the best netcode with an actual ranked system! Imagine being extremely happy with 1k players, actual loser mentality.
The post I replied to only said that fighting games are dead because they're 1v1, when in fact it's not because of that it's because japs are moronic but keep praising them for finally adding rollback after 10 years.
Okay but how many people actually play ranked 1v1 in brawlhalla? I want to compare numbers here, I don't care about your emotions.
Enough people that I can find a game at 10 am in 2 seconds
no numbers then?
I found a ladder website but it's filled with every single person that has ever gone 0-1 in a f2p game so it's pretty useless.
>also who the frick cares that it isn't like a "real" fighting game?
Because it plays nothing like a traditional fighting game. There are plenty of other 1v1 games. Hurr durr why play street crap when you can play starcrap 2, it's 1v1 after all aka basically the same
You are the one who is coping, moron
because if you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself and the person you lost to is better than you. why do you think people are so quick to blame the characters they or the opponent uses over their own actual skills?
To be fair even with irl sports, team sports have always been far more popular. It's more than just "it's not as bad when I lose."
It's been the exact same game since Street Fighter II.
Explain
People pay the entry fee. They lose. They blame the game. They shitpost on a messageboard about how it takes no skill and everyone else is shit.
there have been real mechanical innovations since SF2
(also, although calling any revision of SF2 after the first a kusoge is absolutely hyperbolic, SF2 is still full of dumb bullshit that pretty much EVERY later game that isn't considered a kusoge doesn't have)
you can basically say that every FPS might as well be Doom if you simplify shit as far as you do
No it hasn't. That is like saying every FPS has been the same since Doom or Golden Eye. You sound like one of those dumb weird homosexuals who whine when a sequel is just a better version of the last game with more content.
Just watch any stream of Apex, DBD, CS etc, people will b***h about everything else when they die/lose. People literally cannot handle taking accountability.
1v1 is the only multiplayer I can stand. I get so pissed off in team games because I can't help but start scapegoating my team. But in 1v1 every failed interaction is objectively my fault so it feels like I can examine and approach and improve my gameplan every single match. Its a much more appealing time waster.
too many hours to gain basic competency to enjoy the games. too much hidden information that you have to search for online. very unfun to get stomped and be able to do nothing. you can pick a character, learn their combos, get semi-decent, then realize they suck as you get lol-stomped by your friend at the same skill level who plays a top tier. You learn the game and then learn your character is shit. then it's like, is it even worth it to continue playing them when you're at such a disadvantage?
Can't blame anyone else when you lose.
Because quite literally 99,999999% of people on the planet are pussies and scared of any real competition. Even more people just do not enjoy any brain activity at all, so learning and adapting is not fun for them.
That's literally it.
>99,999999% of people on the planet are pussies and scared of any real competition.
way to understate it
The 1v120 genre is the most popular in the world, fighting games are unpopular because they’re an inferior genre.
Why do FGC homosexuals pretend that the dragon punch input is the hurdle for newcomers and not memorizing a 30-item spreadsheet of 3-5 button combos with various stick inputs AND understanding when to use each move? Oh, and let’s not forget that few characters on a given fighting game’s roster have any carryover from one command list to the next.
>hurr durr y u no dp?
homie, if only that was the problem.
>Oh, and let’s not forget that few characters on a given fighting game’s roster have any carryover from one command list to the next.
Why do you mean by this? Like, most games these days very rarely stray from basic QCFs, DPs, downdowns, and maybe you'll see a charge motion here and there. Once you got those down, you got the foundations to tackle pretty much any moveset, unless you are talking about weirdo 3D shit like Tekken or VF strings, or god forbid MKs dial-a-combos.
I mean that in a given fighting game, most characters play fairly distinctly and few are the same archetype or even a clone character, which means that newcomers aren’t going to be able to try out a character and then switch if they don’t like it without spending a lot of tine per character. If you don’t plan to make FGC a career, this is seen as a massive waste of time and not fun.
And which of these newer games have a high enough skill floor where this is a problem?
I don't agree. Yes, characters are distinct and do things differently, sure, if they didn't the games would fricking boooring, but even then there are only really a handful of character archetypes when you really get down to it, and the same goes for types of moves. Like, you have your Shotos/All-Rounders, Zoners, Rushdown, Grapplers, and they you'll have more gimmicky stuff like stance or puppet/assist characters and such, but really when you get down to it, pretty much any character is going to fit into at least one of the bigger, general molds which can then inform the kind of gameplan you want to run with that character.
Again, with how standardized inputs are these days, picking up character and learning their moves should take like, 15 minutes, maybe 30 tops if you can do the basic stuff. Learning how and when to use moves is more involved, but its something you pick up from actually playing, and the important shit you learn from having to actually play a person are going to be universal or will at least give you an idea of what to look for in moves that are good at doing xyz.
I'd say it depends on the game. Some are really easy to pick up and switch between like melty but in blazblue or old gg learning new characters takes some time.
Everyone who's gotten past the beginner level can tell that motions are a complete non-issue and there's a mountain of things still to learn that is much harder to do.
Why do you want less content? Do you want a small movelist where there are exact answers and it all quickly boils down to the same literal rps for every interaction?
I love them, got no friends. Refuse to play randoms because it’s soulless and the connection sucks no matter what. People irl that I used to play with hate losing and quit.
>People irl that I used to play with hate losing and quit
This is the real problem.
>people get angry at you for knowing a BnB
>people get angry at you for knowing how to block and not falling for hail mary high-recovery/minus moves
>people get angry at you for knowing how to throw
What am I missing? These are the most common ones off the top of my head
using a projectile twice in a row
>friends are too busy to play with you or they prefer other games and when they do play with you they fight halfassedly and you don't want to make them feel worse
>you have to play deliberately to keep friends coming back to the genre
>people getting angry at you for using one tactic/gimmick that they can't beat
>people call you "tryhard" because you actually try to play instead of just mashing
Don't forget people getting angry at you applying the forbidden art of meaty.
>people getting angry at you for not rolling over and letting their desperate raw super hit
1. I'm white. There's obviously something about fighting games that makes them incompatible with white people because even in 95% white countries, their best players aren't white.
2. 1v1 isn't appealing to me. This means you'll have a roughly 50% winrate. However, the 50% losses feel worse to me than the 50% wins feel good. This is probably because I'm in the 97th percentile for neuroticism (negative emotions) and the 6th percentile for extroversion (positive emotions). I need to win a lot or else it's simply a bad investment of my time. Of course, you'd think this means all competitive games are bad to me, but not entirely. Games with large teams and no real matchmaking allow me to win more than 50% of the time - or at least feel like I do (eg. topping the leaderboard feels fine even if my team loses).
3. It's not fun being stunlocked 50% of your playtime. Fighting game characters hardly move as it is.
4. Fighting games all have this one screen with one objective, sometimes with cutscenes. It feels like a very bare bones genre. It's like you pay $60 to beat people up using some updated frame data. I feel like you're getting gipped, honestly.
5. A ninja, a robot, a dude with telekinesis, a cop, a soldier, and 42 martial artists describes most fighting game rosters. In other games, you can play as wizards, werewolves, a goblin riding an ogre. It's obvious what kind of people developers are making their game for and it's not me. KI has the best fighting game roster and it's still pretty simple.
3 is big problem with anime game. It didn't used to be like this due to small combos and string pushback. The anime community demands big combos and devs listen for whatever reason
Doing combos is fun. It's your reward for winning neutral. Getting combo'd, rightfully, sucks, but its also a chance to take a breather and think about how to avoid getting combo'd again, unless you are playing a crackhead game like Skullgirls where can't relax ever since you'll get reset to death if you do or KI with the whole combo breaker thing.
This. Ranked sucks. Running long sets with a single person is not only more fun, but provides a waaay better environment for actually learning and picking up on a player's habits, bonus points if you are able ask the motherfricker questions.
Melee/PM has a lot of fundamental issues with shit like edgestalling, but it pretty elegantly makes combos feel like their own disadvantage state rather than "one player takes a breather while the other guy makes 1 (ONE) interesting choice before he just does a QTE"
>DI means that Yomi never stops being relevant, as combos are almost never guaranteed, and must come from covering your opponent's options
>When a player is hit outside of combo range and effectively reset to neutral, the time it takes for them to drift back to stage gives each player a chance to collect themselves
>Platforms and stage dimensions makes map knowledge a factor for optimizing your punishes or escaping combos
>The health of your opponent factors into the length of their hitstun and how far they'll get launched
>Each character has their own individual properties for weight, fall speed, traction, and air control, meaning that combos can be matchup dependant
>Each individual hitbox of an attack usually has distinct properties for damage and angle, rewarding precise spacing mid-combo
DI is smart for Smash, I'm just not sure I'd really care for it in a traditional fighting game context, if it'd even work at all. The only game that I can think of that has it is Soul Calibur, which I can't really comment on since I generally don't play 3D fighters.
I get that Smash is free form jazz, or whatever, but I like my fighting games more structured and consistent, and the little time you get to decompress in Melee I've always found kind of exhausting. Admittedly though, I just suck at melee, and really don't get how to avoid getting tech chased to death.
>Each character has their own individual properties for weight, fall speed, traction, and air control, meaning that combos can be matchup dependant
Plently of fighting games have these too, if mostly older ones and to a lesser extent than smash.
Not him but I'd love to see people try taking some inspiration from platform fighters in traditional fighting games. It would definitely require a lot of fine tuning but I think it could work really well. I've never played Soul Calibur much either so I can't say how it works there, but I can definitely see an oldschool style anime fighting game with crazy juggles and ground bounces and stuff, and then DI to let you try to squirm out of it.
I'd also like to see some experimentation with more interactive stages. If you could get platform movement to feel good in a traditional fighting game movement system that would be cool as hell. Like let you angle an airdash up or down 30 degrees and if you airdash at a platform you slide so you can IAD down for a not-wavedash. I've been playing MBAACC lately and the movement feels really good even just on a small flat stage.
While it has some flaws that bother me, the Touhou fighters really felt like they pushed the envelope in quite a few areas. I'm surprised more people haven't tried making something that weird.
I still haven't gotten around to trying Soku but I've watched a couple tournaments, it's definitely a wild game despite being weirdly slow and low damage, not what I would have expected. The weather system is wacky, there's one that just turns off blocking but gives everyone infinite hyperarmor.
Yeah, the game's setup is definitely odd. You'd expect a game with those kinds of movement options, that many projectiles and such powerful blockstrings to end quickly, but the combo limiter and tons of defensive options keeps it from being a two touch game, which would probably feel shitty to deal with. It's really cool and unique, but admittedly I'm not in love with certain aspects. Weather can be manipulated but stuff like River Mist and Typhoon isn't very fun, customization in a fighter is something I always found interesting, but the sucky part is that it sort of nerfs characters that don't have good default skills and need an alternate one.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the card decks thing, that's such a cool idea. Normally I don't think I'd like RNG like that in a fighter but it seems really manageable and the way you spend cards to cast other cards seems really clever.
It's one of those things that has its upsides and downsides. It's definitely fun, but it kind of unintentionally nerfs some moves and makes them hard to use in a real match. Like Meiling's default 214 is a dashing punch that can go through projectiles, but you can't really combo into it with anything. You need to include three of her default 214 card and then use that card three times for it to a hitbox on startup that allows you to combo into it. It's interesting on paper, but in practice it means you usually won't get to make use of it, so most people just put in an alternate 214. I like that it allows for a lot of experimentation, not just in terms of moveset customization, but in terms of what kinds of moves they can make up that fit the character. It's just a shame that some of these moves with great upgrades on level up tend to get ignored because it's not worth it.
>KI has the best fighting game roster
lol
lmao
>captcha: 404
>4. Fighting games all have this one screen with one objective, sometimes with cutscenes. It feels like a very bare bones genre. It's like you pay $60 to beat people up using some updated frame data. I feel like you're getting gipped, honestly.
I feel like fighters are theost content rich if you look at them for what they really are, rhythm strategy games with puzzle elements. 25-350 moves per character with moves that aren't binary and interact with each other in different ways and change depending on factors such as time and space. A simple jab can be an AA, a counterpoke, a high crush, a blockstring, a frame trap, an optimal poke, a reset, etc. all depending on the situation and every move has multiple utilities including reversal, low crush, side switch, juggle, and more. Fighters are filled with tools and properties you don't don't get in other games, especially the modern a room adventure game where every attack has a singular purpose and usually magnetizes ti the opponent to do a set amount of stun and damage when the devs want you to.
>5. A ninja, a robot, a dude with telekinesis, a cop, a soldier, and 42 martial artists describes most fighting game rosters. In other games, you can play as wizards, werewolves, a goblin riding an ogre. It's obvious what kind of people developers are making their game for and it's not me. KI has the best fighting game roster and it's still pretty simple.
Dark Awake for western fantasy
BlazBlue for jrpg shit
Darkstalkers for monsters
Injustice for capes
>4. Fighting games all have this one screen with one objective, sometimes with cutscenes. It feels like a very bare bones genre
This is why I never got into 1v1 fighters despite following the genre for some years. It's like a game with only combat practice but without the game (objective). NARAKA: Bladepoint is a fighting game and BR with very good balance of engagement/disengagement and chasing mechanics (in general you can't escape if the enemy commits into chasing)
>I think a well designed fighting game shouldn't feel like homework even when you're learning complicated stuff. [...] they want to dive in and mash with half an idea of what they're trying to do and have cool stuff happen that vaguely resembles their intention.
Naraka has this. Even the noobest 1-2-3 spam can be a valid strategy if it's unexpected. Combos are relatively simple, and while they provide the most damage, simple attacks can be sufficient if you can make good reads and win the neutral:
Pro 1v1s:
Fighting games are unpopular because they lack intellectual depth or a truly engaging game world. SFV for example is a game where probably the #1 skill you need to maintain is perfect spacing: the actual *thought process* you must master is playing in one second blocks and constantly adjusting according to your opponents animation. This is extremely hard, but it isn’t that interesting.
Playing FGs competitively is mentally taxing to a majority of people and they can't handle taking the L themselves in their entertainment activity (gaming) while they are already reminded constantly with their RL activities. This is fair and all.
Playing FGs casually is the norm but homosexuals like cannot comprehend this concept and they have to use braincells to think of reasons to say why FGs sucks/are popular by their normalgay standards, which is funny because the same Gankerermins will cry about other popular games. Basically they hold these beliefs at the same time and it's hilarious
>x is unpopular so it sucks
>x is popular so it sucks
people don't hate 1v1s, they hate the time it takes to practice and actually play them.
Because metaBlack folk suck all the fun out of it every single time in record time, not fun using the same 3 guys in the same way as your opponent in every single match for the entire games lifespan
>but muh balance patches
Only a pendulum swift, makes the previous juggernauts worthless and the old dogwated ones the only ones worth using.
Off topic but I haven't seen anyone call anyone a pleb on Ganker in years, what happened?
This board is including the person you replied to is completely casual/normalgay filled so it just went away overtime
Calling the underclassmen plebs used to be a thing in my high school, you guys just took me down memory lane lol
The only people who try to get others into fighters on this scrub board only do so because they don't want to be at the very bottom themselves, hoping to find some scrub to destroy.
not me, I don't play anything else. It's no a real victory if I have to rely on someone else
boring as frick
having to learn a billion moves just to be a mediocre player sounds awful
>Be Ryu
>Have 6 types of easy to understand normals
>Have 3 sometimes 4 specials
>A Billion moves
Just admit you're bad.
You can see the answer in lol and wow
People don't want to wipe and they get angry if you make two mistakes in mobas
In the end you get a sheltered person who is gonna get raped 40 times instead of 1 time in the same amount of time
Losing feels bad, and developers haven't put a lot of thought into creating a more enjoyable scoring experience with unlockables and customization. Fighting games are the most corrupt money extracting piles of shit on the market. Core gameplay isn't fun to majority of players, and lack of rewards turns them away. Doesn't help that figureheads of the genre like Street Fighter launch full-assed games at launch like Street Fighter 5, as if first impressions don't matter; and have awful load times for the amount of game you experience.
>Noooooo! Why aren't thing artificially locked behind a grind! I don't have an incentive to play if I don't get the dopamine hit if unlocking something new every few minutes!
Been playing fighting games since 1992, zoom zoom. Fighting games in their current state are the scummiest they've ever been. Sorry you didn't get to live through the era where you could unlock characters and costumes through playing the games. These tightass Japanese developers need to stop nickel and diming the six sad motherfrickers that still buy fighting games. Stockholm syndrome having morons.
I guess it makes sense, fighting games being dominant on consoles still. The most abused morons in the world. Pay for console > Pay to play Peer to Peer games against friends > Pay for Game > Pay for characters > Pay for stages > Pay for Music > Pay to customize colors > Pay for costumes > Pay > Pay > Pay piggy, pay. Oink oink.
Fricking indefensible.
I remember all the cool unlockable characters in Street Fighter 2 that totally weren't locked behind 60$ rereleases you fricking mongoloid.
>Fighting games in their current state are the scummiest they've ever been.
Truth.
I yearn for the days of the early 00s like you can't imagine. Tight communities, amazing games, no matchmaking/ranking moron shit.
No they aren't. Did you forget about shit like MK3 to UMK3 or Alpha 1 to Alpha 3 both costing $50 and releasing a few months from each other? Or how about XvSF to MvSF to MvC releasing months from each other and losing characters (Ram issues but still)?
Alpha 1 to Alpha 2*
Alpha 3 released way later.
>Or how about XvSF to MvSF to MvC releasing months from each other and losing characters
I owned a Saturn you filthy plebe, not my problem. Chad Saturn > Virgin Playstation
>Japanese developers need to stop nickel and diming the six sad motherfrickers that still buy fighting games
if this was such a root issue why hasn't AAA died out yet?
>if this was such a root issue why hasn't AAA died out yet?
No clue.
Watercooler gaming. I ran into this with co-workers who would talk to me about whatever gun shooty military man game they were playing, and then they'd end the conversation with an appeal to get me to try it and I'd just shrug it off. Like popular television, movies, or radio shows. Something common for people to talk about? Would be nice if AAA would die the frick off, in the meantime I'll just sit over here and enjoy the seething over Activision knowing they only publish something that pops on my radar maybe once a decade.
You're right, but I fricking hate progression shit. It's so superficial
>developers haven't put a lot of thought into mtx and FOMO
>That's why they're most corrupt and money extracting games on the market
Fricking seriously?
There's valid complaints to make about the reliance on season pass DLC models and soft launches despite the benefits they also offer, but "pure gameplay focus that you can easily put thousands of hours into on one purchase" is as far from the israeli, moneygrubbing, exploitative bullshit in the rest of the industry as you can get. This is an industry where people spend tens of fricking thousands of dollars on gacha rolls, pay monthly subscriptions for access to a game and then buy p2w bonuses on top of that, put pay to skip grind in AAA singleplayer games etc.
>The fighting game charged me 5$ for a new character a month after launch alongside the free balance update
is one of the least abusive examples possible.
>This is an industry where people spend tens of fricking thousands of dollars on gacha rolls, pay monthly subscriptions for access to a game and then buy p2w bonuses on top of that, put pay to skip grind in AAA singleplayer games etc.
And yet the genre of fighting games struggles to maintain a stable player base. Simple fact of the matter is fighting games need to adapt. If you're sinking thousands of hours in one purchase the least these wienersuckers can do is allow you to customize your base outfit colors like Capcom Vs. SNK 2 allowed players to do. I'm a big fighting game fan, but I'm not going to defend the bullshit fighting game fans put up with, and if you're willing to that's your problem. Enjoy watching the genre fade into the past, and stinky Mash Bros overrun your territory. I would go so far as to say the online versus mode should be free on all platforms. If you're autistic enough to enjoy the story modes, or lonely enough to lab, then you can purchase the full game; but F2P versus mode would be a net benefit to the genre. We have dumbass kids out here sitting in matchmaking lobbies to play battle royal and shooting games, F2P fighting game would be fast as hell and could fill small windows of free time when you want to play something; but don't have time for a more fleshed out or complex game.
The battered wives of Capcom will argue against this.
Fighting games are more popular now than they have been since SF2
Yeah there's features that should be standard. It took most of them a fricking decade to figure out usable netcode. There still isn't a single one with a decent ranked algorithm. Frame data in training mode is a fricking controversy for some reason.
And yet the people that actually want to play fighting games still do, and the people that just want to cry on the internet still don't.
Ultimately, there's nothing you can do that will make people that don't want to sit and 1v1 someone in a purely skill based, difficult game if they don't find it fun, None of the things people say are keeping them out actually are. They used to swear up and down that if you made decent tutorials casuals would play, now games have decent tutorials and you still get all the same complaints just with "tutorial" replaced by "singleplayer." People used to say they'd play when they stopped having to rebuy the game every version, now that it's just DLC and versions updates are free they use that as an excuse instead.
Would you get somewhat increased numbers if you somehow successfully implemented all the same skinner box bullshit that fills most of the rest of the industry? Sure, you'd probably earn more money too because the only reason any of that shit exists is to sell more garbage.
But it wouldn't make me enjoy the games any more, so I'd rather they put the work into making more characters, music, polishing the netcode, improving training mode etc.
>The battered wives of Capcom will argue against this.
Nah, I actually never bought SFV because they never actually fixed the netcode. But also, I don't really like SF anyway, so I don't care what they do much. I just play the games I like and think are worth putting time in without needing incentives and unlockables.
Because there is nothing to blame other then your own (lack of) skill when you lose.
Many people can't handle how shit they actually are when faced with the facts.
I only lost because you were playing a scrub character.
If its such a character for scrubs then why were you getting wiped with it in stead of maybe learning how to fricking block?
Normies dont like having to blame themselves on their losses. Also getting good at fighting games is incredibly hard and casuals dont wanna put in the work neccessary.
My guess is that in 1v1 games people are more afraid to lose a game where the entirety of the outcome rests on His or Her shoulders. In team games You may win or lose, but wins come more frequently as a "bad player" playing team games and the losses don't feel as heavy in team games because the blame is spreadout among Your allies.
All of that is exactly why I prefer 1v1 games. Win or lose, it's all on me. That's way better than losing because I had literal children or morons on my team, or worse, *I* was the moron.
I've been trying out SFV again and the combos and specials still feel like shit to me compared to every other fighting game I've ever played. When I try to do clean inputs for things in combos it never works but if I just wiggle 2323 I can get DPs with ease. V is the only SF I've ever tried so I don't know if older SFs were like this as well but if so I can sort of understand why regular people who've only tried that franchise for fighting games would dislike DP motions.
Because I suck ass at video games and have no intention of getting better
Why do fighting game players love making threads that do nothing but:
>Muh PvP
>Muh excecution
>Muh hardcore gamer lyfestyle
>Muh EXTREME
what?
Should I uninstall all of my fighting games? They brought me more pain than enjoyment
yep that sounds like the right choice. it is what it is
Because it cannot function unless both players are on a somewhat level playing field or one party doesn't mind going through dozens of hours before he can get a single win.
Wish people love Fighting Games more. Only genre I've played where I can't find matches all hours of the day.
Even RTS games are way way more popular and also considered "dead"
hard to love swallowing an ego while getting beat on endlessly to get the the point where you even feel in control of your character. trust me, i wish i loved them too. they look so fun but playing them isnt until it starts to click, and for most if its not in the first couple hours, its easier to just play something immediately fun or easier to not feel terrible about a loss in like a team game.
Just play a mainstream fighting game instead of some trash anime fighter if you want to be matched with beginners
>hard to love swallowing an ego while getting beat on endlessly to get the the point where you even feel in control of your character
My homie, what ego could you even have if you just started a game? How fricking insane must you be to develop an ego for a game you just started? The fricks the matter with you. You barely know anything, what in the world constitutes the creation of your ego to begin with to swallow?
The thinking from people who don't play fighting games is probably
>I am good at video games (like JRPGs lol)
>That means I should be good at fighting games
>I can't lose in fighting games...the genre must be shit (see
>muh metagays
>muh matchmaking
>muh inputs
>muh archaic game design)
yeah thats what i meant. but i dont think the genre is shit, i just dont like the hurdle to enjoy playing them so they arent for me. im great at team games or single player ones but fighting game are the exact opposite so it hits my pride.
I hope SF6 will have a larger player base. I'd be so insanely happy if the game averaged like 10k on steam and had crossplay with Xbox and PS. I'd be able to keep playing instead of turning off the game after 12pm cause queue times jumping to 10+ minutes.
>Even RTS games are way way more popular and also considered "dead"
My matchmaking in SC2 is literally 10-20 seconds. SC2 probably has more people playing at one time than every fighting game's peak put together
Does Blizzard ever show concurrents? I'm curious to see what they are.
No, the best we got is rankedftw which isn't very reliable. They were roughly 240k unique players played at the start of the new season yesterday. The numbers a little less cause some players will play more than one race and on different regions, still a huge number compared to fighting games. Even at the lowest points there's 25k players
https://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&sy=c&sx=a
Co-op mode also happens to be more popular than 1v1 so add a ton of people on top of that. Plus there's team games (4v4 etc) too, and also custom games.
just take the smash clone pill, fighting games are so simple nowadays it's really not that different from brawlhalla/multiverse
1v1 fighting games exposes people with fragile egos to the fact that they aren't as good at video games as they thought. These people will think up any cope they can instead of realizing that they aren't good and they don't want to get better
>muh metagays
>muh matchmaking
>muh inputs
>muh archaic game design
>local tourney going on in a week
>but they dont have the games I play
dammit, I guess they could probably set up AC or p4A if I asked but its a bummer
dis homie cant do a z motioin
Give me a 1v1 game that feels like an offline 1v1. I want to just keep playing, but these homosexual fighting games kick you out to a menu after every fight. It sucks ass
I would rather play against a player population than the same opponent over and over again. Though some game have a ranked re-match feature online.
Because there's no one to blame but yourself when you lose. Its not like a 5v5 moba where you can blame a shitty off lane or some 3v3 and one of your teammates was shit.
Thats why people who play 1v1 games will seethe about "balance"
>I lost because you're using a crutch character!
>I lost because you played scrubby!
>I lose because uh ITS NOT MY FAULT I SUCK
just came here to say Multiversus is better than your favorite getting game
SF6 will probably be the best selling SF game, its doing everything right
>But my main...
There's too many god damn characters in this franchise to please everyone at launch
I'm glad my wiener made me main Cammy, she'll always be launch roster
>5FM has been deposited in your account
Nobody that actually understands what that means gives a flying frick how many copies Dicks will have sold in 2029 try to be less blatant with your FOMO pitch
I dunno, I kinda think the drive system looks moronic and I doubt I'm the only one who thinks so.
So much better than fraud triggers
Yeah by virtue of being only a single extra meter instead of a weird double meter but I'd still rather play a fighting game where so much of the basic movesets and mechanics aren't locked behind multiple different resources.
Too much pressure.
Every uninformed comment about fighting games thinks every fighter is Hokuto no Ken infinites and unfair match-ups.
This is the imaginary game haters think without even knowing it.
HnK? My homie.
Dont forget the fact that QMZ uses jagi which is literally the worst character in the game with TWO 9:1 matchups and he is capable to win matches like nothing.
The announcers going fricking crazy when QMZ lands Jagi's instant kill is the best.
>QMZ perfects a Toki! (a bunch of players and commentators die laughing in the background)
>RAKANGEKIIIIIII
>ICHIGEKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII HE LOST TO JAGI
>SOKO NI SUWARE
I wonder if anons would be interested in learning this game
Looking forward to Multiverse's and Project L coming out and absolutely BTFO all modern Japanese fighting games. They are archaic and poorly designed, but luckily competent devs are finally coming to save fighting games.
DNF did what Project L us planning and it's already dying. Multiversus will get the Brawlhalla audience, but I doubt it's going to make an impact in the FGC. A lot of these accessibile games are just really shallow and one note. That's fine for a single player adventure game like Elden Ring, but when you have a hardcore community that enjoys putting in hundreds or even thousands of hours into a game, you need more.
>DNF did what Project L us planning
DNF is f2p?
Simple inputs
Looking forward for Multiversus to only be a 2nd place Brawlhalla and for Project L to not make a big impact in the genre.
Project L better have
top tier netcode
high population
crossplay (if also on console)
a good MMR ranked system (no SFV's system isn't good)
some sort of social hub or way to interact with people besides pre-made phrases and arcsys meme rooms
>no SFV's system isn't good)
What's wrong with SFV's system? My only issue with it is that it makes it hard to learn a new character.
Its not the worst system but its not good. Its shit cause it compresses most of the player base into the bottom ranks which leads to wide skill disparity in low ranks and slow matchmaking in higher ranks. Another reason is because of the way it matches you within 1 rank. You can be a fresh Plat and face someone at 11k and get crushed or a 6.5k and crush them, leading to very volatile matchmaking. An MMR system would smooth out the player distribution and lead to consistent matchmaking times at all ranks and more even and less volatile matches too.
SFV is better than shit like what Strive has but its pretty bad compared to every other genre. Yet another thing fightans are behind in.
Is KoF 15 matchmaking fixed yet?
>Why do people hate 1v1 genres so much?
Because there's no one else to blame but themselves.
Mental gymnastics don't work as well when you're alone, so you have to shoulder responsibility for your loss to some extent and you don't have a team to help you either
Unlike a normal FPS you can't rely on learning the basic mechanics, need to learn at least the basics of the other characters in order to counter them and feel competitive because you're not on even grounds
Unlike battle royale/card games, you can't chalk it up to luck
It takes a long time to git gud
They're fun when you have friends to play with, since you're all just fricking around, but in online play against strangers? Your only option is playing for rank and that invites a competitive mindset
is it possible to teach someone how to play fighting games at a very basic fundamental level if they've never touched a fighting game before in their life, and could you do it within 15 minutes?
If I had to try, I'd show them movement, normal moves, blocking, sweeps, how to do a throw and break a throw, and maybe one special move like a projectile, and I'd tell them to try to land a sweep as much as possible and block on wakeup if they get knocked down. Would that still be too much?
Didn't the Core A Gaming guy teach his gf how to do the lariat with Zangief to plow through arcade mode? Does that count?
not really, showing someone how to do one single move isn't the whole basic game. that's an attack, but blocking and jumping are imperative too
you can tell them those things but unless they play against someone who is literally not trying or another person who has never touched a fighting game, i doubt they will even remember half of what you said when they start getting hit.
the first thing they could learn how to do is block, and the one teaching them can limit themselves to only the most basic basic strings, not giant bombos that make them wanna quit because it sucks to watch a movie of your character getting rocked and not even knowing how it happened.
i agree. the process would have to be slow and metered. the thing about learning fighting games is that unless the person REALLY wants to learn and get better, its gonna feel like homework.
yea, exactly. no one wants to tentatively try out a new thing and have a 5" thick textbook dropped on their lap. people go about introducing new players to fighting games like that and it's all wrong. simple concepts like how fast moves counterhit slower ones by interrupting them, or how to block high or low depending on what move is coming, etc, should be taught one at a time with examples. even the best tutorials in fighting games don't seem to really explain it that well, and they're long and tedious.
I think Core-A was the youtuber that explained how they taught their friends the fundamentals of fighting games by reducing SFV to throws and sweeps, and only adding new moves in after they'd gotten the hang of just those two tools and playing matches with them. THAT's the way to do it, keep it fun without being overwhelming and introduce new concepts one part at a time.
I think a well designed fighting game shouldn't feel like homework even when you're learning complicated stuff.
I don't think you actually want the progression to be slow, because that's boring. People don't actually want to do the hadouken hadouken hadouken DP hadouken sweep throw game that gets suggested for noobs, they want to dive in and mash with half an idea of what they're trying to do and have cool stuff happen that vaguely resembles their intention. That's why Tekken is such a casual favourite even though the actual game is really complex and difficult, the skill floor where the "the character does stuff" level is is basically nonexistent, no matter how you mash there's some kind of string that happens or a move that comes out, and then if you improve you start to learn what mashing does what thing and when which move is a good idea or not, but you don't need any understanding beyond where the buttons are to make stuff happen. In traditional fighting games, particularly link based ones like SF, if you're just hitting random buttons based on pure feeling, nothing is going to work at first.
That's one thing Strive does really well, which I actually didn't expect before it came out. They reduce the amount of options you have so much that usually you can only do one or two things in a situation by default, and at least one of those things is going to work. Opponent is right next to you and you have no idea what to do? Opponent is pretty far away but approaching and it's scary? It's fine, just press S>HS>Special>S>HS>super, if they get hit it's probably a combo, if they block it's a blockstring, if they're far you get Far Slash and if they're close you get Close Slash so it even chooses the best starting move for you, and if the combo drops it's fine because there's no air teching and you're probably safe. I was expecting not being able to just PKSHD to get in their way but it ended up accomplishing their goals really well, personal taste aside.
This is a disingenuous argument. Introducing a multiplayer component to anything increases the difficulty of a game because it is inherently harder playing against a human opponent over an AI.
So to answer your question properly, you'd have to answer if a person can learn everything they need to easily beat the Story or Arcade Mode of a fighting game in 15 minutes and the answer is obviously yes.
>This is a disingenuous argument.
who's arguing?
In 15 minutes, that would probably be too much to cover at once for there to any real retention. Make it, like, a couple half-hour long sessions over the course of like, a few days and you'd probably be able to get somewhere if you played your cards right, but I think it would also hinge on how good of a teacher you are and how much the person you're trying to teach gives a shit.
I was tournament level back in SF4 from around 2010-2012 and it was the most fun I've ever had with video games, but now I fell like such a washed up has been it's unreal.
i wasn't a competitive player in sf4 but had over 4000pp. i transitioned to sfv and got my ass mollywopped and could barely hold on to diamond. i blame it on fathertime
People are b***hes. I just had a G ragequit on me and he's an actual fighting game player. People who don't play are even bigger b***hes
>keep dropping Izanami 5C > 2C > Dome
Apparently I'm not used to half circle inputs in my combos
I can see her panties
You're going to die, she doesn't care.
Fighting games are unpopular because they are an inferior genre.
Inferior to what? The AAA walking sim?
Is DNF dead already? I never see threads here anymore.
It peaked at 1.5k in the last 24 hours so its not dead, but might be in a month
It has a general on /vg/ and still sitting at a healthy 1400-1500 players so I'd say it's still kicking since it's been 4-5 weeks. I'm more sad about what happened to Type Lumina after a month.
Unfortunately its just not a very good game. Melty is also a established franchise in name alone and not player base. So they really needed the game to be good to stick around and its not. Whats more shameful is how fast/far UN fell after Cl-r. Somewhat because covid killed the tournament momentum but also the lack of rollback and weird frame drops on PSN.
That reminds me of that UNI documentary that came out before the last EVO IIRC saying how important the feeling of grassroots was to the community. So much for that I guess.
Why would you grassroots a really shitty game? Both MB and Uni get 200+ mam tournaments
At one point UNI was pulling in big numbers for a niche anime fighter at a bunch of major tournament sign ups which is why McRib made a big deal about making it a main game at the EVO before he got ousted.
It's pretty funny seeing how MBTL's peak is 10x that of UNI on PC yet their player counts aren't too far apart from eachother.
I'd love to hear Kamone's thoughts on MBTL's launch
Obviously it sold a shitload more than they planned so financially the game was a massive success, but it must kind of sting to see a hundred thousand people go "Wow, this stinks actually, what was I excited for again?"
I wonder if he wishes he'd done things differently or if he's happy just making the game he feels like and doesn't care about anyone else's opinions.
If like usual japan cares only about its native fanbase, he probably doesn't care all that much because MBTL tournaments are still going strong.
Kamone either doesn't give a shit or is too prideful to accept he made a mistake. Either way, he clearly isn't gonna change the game.
We're still within a year of MBTL's release and FB's first iteration usually tend to be rough.
If we're talking changes, we'd really need to wait until a new version of the game. Reminder that UNI's first iteration was filled with infinite time-outs with no limits to ground/wall bounces.
MBTL feels a bit more polished than that but as we've abundantly mentioned our issues with its universal systems, we still have no idea how it may change in the future.
But for now in this cycle until the end of this year where the last new character is added, there's no point in expecting anything big.
honestly, I think it's the usual "japanese devs don't pay attention to player complaints, especially international player complaints" shit
I also don't expect changes, he got my money already, he's got no reason to fix shit.
strive's floor system seems reasonable right up until you enter floor 10 and it just pools every random moron who is half-competent into the same room (but you also get like lv900 "I play this game 25 hours a day" people showing up too)
Every major [st] showed up in had bigger numbers than the last.
I blame MBTL's unsatisfying combo system, shields, and clashes that incredibly lessened its staying power.
And certain character's reliance on the autocombo's 2nd hit to course correct damn near everything.
[st] had four different bumps in popularity so it was only a matter of time the hype died down after such an eventful life.
MBTL's ""community"" was co-opted by fake-ass "it will save fighting games" and "funny cat xD" memelords
>"funny cat xD" memelords
Will Neco-Arc make it into Season 2 DLC?
Melty Blood deserves it. Trash series.
god, I'm still mad about TL
it literally just needs like two fricking changes to get people to at least try it again
>remove autocombo (at the minimum, remove it on A)
>remove shield RPS (honestly, I hate everything about TL shield, it isn't fun to play around)
pretty major system changes, but frick, you went from a 12k simultaneous launch to sub-1k in a month
it needs more work than that, but those are the two big "nope, I'm out" things
people were excited for the game and were disappointed that it was shit
apparently they made so much money that they can release the DLC for free though since they absolutely did not expect this to be a 12k at launch game
but big system changes are needed if they want to actually recover players (and rebranding those changes as another revision so people actually play, given for free since people got burned)
>people were excited for the game and were disappointed that it was shit
I got really REALLY worried when match footage videos they released weekly, and to a lesser extent character trailers, heavily featured the autocombo blip on the side constantly showing up.
More than half of the mission mode combos are fricking unnecessary mash x to complete but complaining about this feels like a moot point to begin with because the combo variety is ridiculously low.
the worst thing is how I learned from my mistake of buying it on release by not buying kofxv at all after I heard the 1st week and onwards matchmaking issues and getting strive half a year after release at half price, but then gave in like moron and bought release dnf the exact same way just because of my half decade fond barely there memory of playing troubleshooter before I quit mmos completely.
I bought it on release mostly because I was itching for a new fighter and I got to S-rank, beat ChrisG in the mirror, and "kind of" enjoyed it before I really came to understand how limited the combo system was.
It really wasn't for me.
It is the most sweaty type of game there is. Halo 1v1 was a lot of fun.
ur gay
It's not worth to get good.
>players who pick top tier characters force me to pick another top tier character to have a chance
>absolute madman with experience whoops my ass with a low tier
I think I love fighting games haha
Because they're forced to confront their failure every time they lose.
if skill is the only factor that matters a skilled player will know every time when a physical limitation (netcode or just ping) has robbed him of an advantage
if you let two teams compete this can be compensated by the difference of teamwork
if you remove the reaction based skill and replaceit with rng you will get duel games that are quite popular such as hearthstone
JUST USE MMR FOR MATCHMAKING
FRICK THESE RANK SYSTEMS AND moronic SHIT LIKE FLOORS TOO
The sad reality is that people who are bad at fighting games tend to be bad at videogames in general.
You mean fighting games?
RTS games too
I hope they don't frick up SF6's ranked matchmaking. Would be nice if they did something to spread out the ranks amongst the player base. 80% of the player base is in bronze and silver and the matchmaking gets pretty slow the higher you go from my experience. Make everyone start at Gold and let people drop or rise as they start. Better yet have placement matches against real players.
Just fricking use Elo or Glicko or whatever MMR system instead. This is a solved problem and has been since before videogames were a thing. You can even still split the playerbase into arbitrary ranks, just go "500 Elo and below is bronze, 700-900 is gold, 900-1100 is platinum, 2400+ is Immortal Master Shitfricker" whatever
What are the disadvantages of not using MMR really? The matches are way more even though did hear CoD homosexuals crying over SBMM being a problem somehow
Doesn't keep the 1% grinding 10 billion games for Grand Ass Master Triple Prime Omega Alpha Turbo Plus and a spot on a leaderboard like they needed in arcades
Dota and SC2 both have MMRs and the turbo autists would try to be the first 10k MMR player etc where they'd gain like 1 point for beating another pro lol
Yeah people still grind points in ELO style systems but they aren't geared towards it and it's not as accessible to do so. Jive is really the fricking worst because most of the audience is stuck in Bronze hell anyways.
Probably more the Dota 2/CSGO style where there's MMR but you're technically Global Elite or Immortal
Even iRacing that has a very transparent and strictly implemented system (that is flawed anyways) people are out there annihilating people for 2 rating points in off hours or beginner cars to make number go up.
This is actually surprisingly close to an ideal distribution but you can see the numbers are hilariously stretched out on the upper side because there's zillions of abandoned trial account shitters feeding points into the system.
You just do what every game does and have a cosmetic grindy ranking and an actual MMR number.
Fighting games as a whole have the worst online experience I've ever seen out of any video game genre. Maybe the western stuff is better, but the Japanese developers really dragged it down for so long. More than anything else, that's what's prevented me from spending more time with fighting games.
It literally took a global pandemic for these moronic Jap devs to implement decent online
Combination of isolationism and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here really fricked up FG's evolution. Project L might be shit but it'll at least show this devs what a modern game system is supposed to look like.
anime games with neutral where?
Go play Koihime Musou
Melty Blood(old)
define what neutral is
https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Neutral
>anime games with neutral where?
Granblue Versus. Pray for rollback.
its lonely and hard to make friends and i hit walls trying to improve by myself often
>refunded Lumina in 10 minutes because they somehow made a DX10 game on an old engine W10 dependent
Haha get fricked losers
oh sorry it's fricking DX9
You're not moronic enough to lose to this are you? Stop being afraid of fighting games
>try to punish fullscreen heavy tatsu
>get hit by EX DP
When I was still facing silver kens I'd just keep an eye on their meter. If they had one (1) (uno) bar they'd inevitably ex DP
gotta learn when to press your 4f button after blocking, i assure you it's one of those things you learn once and then frick the other guy in the ass every single time afterwards
you know, i'd advocate for a proper punish, but i think doing that sends a better message
Only fighting games, my dude. I'll play card games, board games, puzzle games, strategy games, etc., but I derive little pleasure from fighting games, especially now that most of them have basically no singleplayer content, they're all just trying to be competitive.
Cause they can't say it's someone else's fault when they lose?
funny how arcsys put rank mode to dungeon fighter but not to strive
Its actually fairly okay but it lacks a blacklist. One guy on wifi or a potato PC can ruin the matchmaking for a while
Strive feels like a bit of a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, trying to do things differently just for the sake of being different. I actually like Strive (when I'm not playing against some characters) but boy did they make some incredibly stupid decisions.
If you still play this genre after putting 1k~ hours in it you're moronic. Fighting game devs don't give a single shit about their games, why the frick should you? Hopefully everyone realizes how terrible these games actually are and drop fighting games completely. I'm not even talking about the gameplay, it's how these morons can barely update their game to fix bugs and can't even have normal ranked/matchmaking or working online lobbies at least. Every single fighting game must have a glaring flaw and it's not even hard to not have them, they just want to make these games shitter for some reason. DNF and Strive are on the same fricking engine yet DNFs training mode is much more shittier than Strives, why? Absolutely no reason for it, they just want to make it shittier. Arcsys is a joke and it's sad that these are the only """popuar""" fighting games out now.
I really hope Capcom absolutely kills this company but SF6 looks like shit in terms of gameplay and how it feels.
All in all if you still play FGs after putting a thousand hours in the genre you're just a complete moron. Play something better.
Most of the game was developed by 8ing and not Arcsys though if you're talking about DNF. They only use the same engine for Xrd.
Also you don't need to put 1000 hours to have fun. You can have fun from the jump just learning the ins and outs of the games. The fun is the journey, not reaching the endgame.
No teammates to shift blame to when you lose, no friends to cooperate with.
I got curious and wanted to compare AoE2's 1v1 ranked numbers to SFV's, but the CFN ranking list caps out at page 100 because Capcom can't even do that right, so I used Strive with ratingupdate.info instead.
AoE2 has way higher player numbers than any fighting game on steam, but it also has a large portion of its playerbase only doing singleplayer or team modes.
Comparing https://aoe2.net/#aoe2de-leaderboard-rm-1v1 with 41k players having played a 1v1 ranked match in the last month to http://ratingupdate.info/stats with 29k having played a game in the tower in the last week, they seem pretty equivalent. Strive's is significantly lower but also a significantly smaller collection period.
I thought that was interesting. It definitely lends some credence to the "competitive 1v1 is only ever going to be so popular" theory.
SF6 will change this. We will see 10k averages on steam for sure...
people just dont play fighting games because they're terrible and japs ruined the genre forever
Fighting games are only good when you are 12 years old and in a pizza restaurant arcade with other kids.
In that setting you can beat them up IRL of they start playing with bad manners, which is the intended correction method.
Internet 1v1 fighting games you cannot get satisfaction vs a little homosexual autismo who needs to be put in his place and given a reality check.
>mfw little nerdc**t playing the characters he's bad at to give me a chance, otherwise he knows he will get rolled again
YWNBAFG (You will never be a fighting game)
>you will never be a dead genre with nonexistant matchmaking and struggling to find players if it isn't normal hours
Thank god.
I feel morons on v spam this thread so much because fighting games produces so much seething on one hand and on the other they just want some waifu posting. Other than that, they have no idea how to play a fighting game nor they want to learn
Fighting games never stopped making me seethe no matter how good I get though
I love fighting games and party games both
Strive and DNF has made so many fighting game threads pop up and I fricking hate it
God damn fighting game discussions on this board are painful to read, it's literally motion inputs or Cammy being censored
Go back to whatever shithole genre you crawled out of
the same reason arena shooters like qc die, as much as i like playing qc i can absolutely see why someone wouldnt want to pick it up, doesnt make them right because their attitude is a losing one, but its at least understandable. you see people that know the maps in and out and have internal clocks ready to touch every power up the second they appear and its daunting, most people have brains rotted by team based shooters and flavor of the month instant gratification, its a steep hill to climb out of, going from "oh i can just win or lose and it doesnt matter" to "if i lose its entirely on me because im the worse player." not only this but afps has the difference (with exception to qc in some regard) of no defense or johns for even matchups, its ENTIRELY on you, not a matchup, not an ability, you are on equal ground with the person you are playing against and when you lose there is absolutely no excuse possible, you just have to eat the loss and move on, and most people simply cant handle it.
arenashitter delusion, people don't want to play your shit game because basically every mechanic is based around deemphasising aim skill in an fps, rapha fricking ruined quake
nobody cares about your excellent aim if you cant properly move around a map and understand mechanics other than "aim and shoot the head." sounds like someone cant count time in their head.
i'm just telling you why your shit first person item timer and run away from-er is dead, stop pretending it's because quake is too awesome for the plebs to understand
poor bait, i could care less that people dont want to play them and i said i understand why, its better that you freaks stay away from it anyways, i will continue having fun with my friends, enjoy your endless ranked team based fps solo queue experience, im sure you will climb up a singular rank next week champ!
nah you don't get to call anyone else a freak you little arena shooter gremlin
arena shooters are the only real shooters
>real shooters
>shooting is like 5% of the game
lol
weak bait
it's 100% true and you know it
I know that you're 100% moronic
next time apply yourself
why because i play shooters that are actually about shooting? nice1 arenatard
Fighting game devs put in 0 effort to keep players in any single game, thinking the gameplay itself will keep the game crowded
Inevitably that backfires, and they move on developing the next game for that quick cash flow, leaving the game you've invested so much time in in the dust
What incentives would you have in mind to keep players interested in the game? Monthly balance patches? Costumes? They can't simply pump out a new character every month since it takes time to fit a new character into a game and balance it accordingly unless they cut said content and release it like a service game.
i need to heckin level up, unlock items and get loot dude! where's the content???
>this didn't work for HotS even after the dumb esports push
You made me sad now.
good netcode that you don't even think about it
matchmaking like league
a good ranked/casual system
what fighting game has these?
>matchmaking like league
The silliest thing I've seen honestly. People are that stupid that they need a big play button to figure out how to use online modes.
yeah because celestial in strive is sooooooo kino, i love it when people constantly dodge slightly bad MUs
or xrd rooms, so fricking good when you either fight a light blue moron or a pink god
seriously have a nice day
im better than you at fighting games
Play better fighters. Fightcade is free
>don't play dead games with 300 players and bad matchmaking
>play dead games with 30 people and no matchmaking
Filtered, and also unskilled.
lolfighter will destroy everything you love and I'll be laughing
>matchmaking
>good
Cringe
LMAOOOOO, no way you seriously wrote this
fighting game morons are so delusional i am SORRY, legitimately sorry that you're still playing these games
>have good matchmaking
>pubstomping Black folk get upset
everytime
>league
you wouldn't like fighting games, moba players have slow brains and cannot handle fast action. moba tards have less braincells than console shooter players
if i wanted to play something entirely determined by my own skill i'd play a score attack game
1v1 games are just a shitty midpoint between score attack and team games
I thought heartstone was popular
In card games you can blame luck for your loses while taking full credit for your wins.