I think it's cool to learn techniques from gear. Makes finding new gear more interesting that just higher numbers
Why does everyone hate this?
I think it's cool to learn techniques from gear. Makes finding new gear more interesting that just higher numbers
No one hates it, schizo
I've asked people about learning new skills and most people say they hate this system
Are they FF8 fans? If so, you probably shouldn't listen to them.
I don't think they had an allegiance. None of them gave reasons why which is why I ask
The idea is good, but - like in Tales of Vesperia - I have to keep using weak equipment and only equip the better one when it's not the best any more.
Rent free.
I love ff8 but ff9 is better in every aspect except waifus
I hate it in FFTA where battles take too long to commit to learning few skills at a time. It's fine in FF9.
The issue from this system comes more from the Steal system, where special, unique equipment you can only get from bosses means those are abilities you miss out on, so it's a double whammy if you dont suffer through the 2% success rates, which can make grinding the steal as monotinous as Drawing in FF8
>The issue from this system comes more from the Steal system, where special, unique equipment you can only get from bosses
This is not true, stealing can get you the items before they are easily obtainable. I dont know why everyone hates that mechanic since it's mostly optional
What unique equipment that you only get by steal??? Probably only one such thing existed. Stop exaggerating.
FF9 sucks and im glad the hipsters are finally starting to realize this, hope they move onto something else now
Not asking about the whole game; just this one aspect
I got on the FF wagon with FFVII (although I had tried 5 and 6 on an emulator prior), I remember at the time IX came out everyone was hyped about how it's returning to the good old formula and shit. But to me it felt like a really barebones game, it had a lot of great moments for sure and the story completely mogs the mess that was VIII, but things like customizing characters was now just swapping equipment and the world was really empty and boring. There wasn't anything to keep me exploring rather than hightailing to the final boss when I got the spess ship. I'm guessing the Junction system in VIII got everyone's panties in such a twist that they panicked and went straight back to monke. When what should have been fixed was VIII's character writing.
9 is just the game that MMO-trannies cling to as a means of identification. I imagine there exist some WoW players who do the same with Warcraft 2 or some other strange thing
Get gang raped white cunt shoot that fucking slut shoot that fucking slut
I want a game where you can transmute gear into food and then eat it to gain its affects.
I think it's misguided that you have to earn gear exp for it.
Elona+
I know about Elona+, I should've probably clarified that I want "more" games. Elona+ by itself is not enough to satisfy my desire for that cool mechanic to be in RPGs/Immersive Sims
i hate it because my autism forces me to use shittier gear to learn abilties that don't do shit because i want them all
How about you only learn the abilities that actually matter?
How would you do it?
i literally said because autism, read bro
Set different goals for different abilities I guess, related to the particular ability.
I like systems like this. Gives a reason to not use the same equipment all the time and I like learning new skills. Get Astlibra if you want more.
There's a lot of reasons why FF9 (and FF7 and FF8 also for that matter btw) is trash, but skill mechanics isn't one of them. It's one of the more fun and redeeming aspects of the game, but hardly enough to save it.
But people loved that fucking sphere grid.
I think it boils down to the fact that Final Fantasy games are often so bare, so at least there's *something* to grind.
I hate FFX too btw.
I'd rate it second out of the Magicite, Materia, GF and Item system that went from 6 to 9. Job system still mogs them though.
Job system sucks and you know it
Job system>Sphere Grid>License Board>Materia>Equipment>Magicite>GFs>Just learning them on level up
Not even gonna comment on the travesty that is XIII's system.
Which version of the job system? What's so good about it?
>2023
>people still overrate FF5's job class
Isn't that basically the same, except the skills are tired to the job and you have to grind still?
>people still overrate FF5's job class
Or they could be diehard X-2 fans. We'll never know.
That had job classes?
Yes, a lot of really unique ones, and you could switch between classes on the fly in battle.
It's the only reason to play the damn game.
Call me when we get a FF7 9 Materia Festa or a FF8 6 GF Festa.
XIII's crystarium is actually way better than you think, and really makes me think of how people really don't pay attention. I will actually go as far as say XIII's crystarium is more nonlinear than several FF games. I'm not going to go through all of them but I'll use the Sphere Grid and FF9's AP system as examples.
FFX's original sphere grid is linear with branches. Like literally, there was a site that showed how linear FFX's original sphere grid was. Found the site which is from gameinternal. Just look up FF10's sphere grid linear gameinternal. They pretty much straightened it out the sphere grid and showed that it was literally a linear path with branches. So everyone pretty much has one skill tree. You can only go around the sphere grid towards the endgame when you connect with other characters' sphere grids and even then you can only initially go to a few before being able to go to others. And again that is determined by story progress. This is not including the expert grid which came in the remaster as that's unfair as this is more about the original FFX that I'm assuming people played first.
FF9's AP system is linear due to the other parts of the game, so it's not inherently like that. In order to learn new abilities you have to do it by equipment. Equipment is determined by story progress which makes your abilities be determined by story progress, and in my last playthrough I generally already had the ability mastered by the next area due to AP UP passive which I believe everyone would obviously put on. Like Steiner can't learn Stock break(many of his abilities felt useless and he is not always with Vivi) until the endgame, or Vivi can't learn flare until the endgame. Also hot and cold expansion is pretty much determined by story progress and even some of the weapons from that don't really teach anything new. Now that I think about it, FF9 actually locks you out of hot and cold for most of the game too and changing party members comes really late where there isn't much left... In any case, if there was a more wide range of equipment with different abilities(with similar stats for balance) for each part of the story then it would be more nonlinear, but generally I noticed it was usually one ability(per equipment) at a time or literally the same ability beforehand.
FFXIII actually is more nonlinear because it essentially gives you multiple skill trees. You start off with 3 skill trees with their main roles with branches to either more stats or abilities, so a skill tree like X except you get a lot more. I've been watching someone recently play it and he noted how a lot of people crystarium progression, weapons, and accessories would be different than what he has as he developed certain areas more or went for more stats or certain abilities(he didn't have haste with Sazh until much later than I did). This is actually more nonlinear considering that most FF generally make their characters "just get the next best weapon" while XIII is more "choose to develop which weapon you want." So it's more of a horizontal upgrading which is nice and I think FF7R does that too(I'm not sure as I haven't played it). A good amount of them is useful too. In terms of crystarium points, I noticed the guy playing it felt that somewhere in the early-mid game he had to choose which one to develop first or if he should go down a branch because he noticed that he didn't have enough points to max out everything, and I noticed this with a few others that I happened to see as well. I do think they should have reduced the amount of points needed for sub roles but that's a different story. Any case, I remember one guy mentioning that XIII's crystarium is more like 1.5 degrees of linearity due to multiple skill trees while X's original sphere grid is like 1. I agree with that but also think other ff games progression system is 1 degree too like FF9.
In addition the gating part isn't actually that different from other FF and jrpgs. XIII is more upfront about it, but previous FF games do actually gate you and some other jrpgs do too like Trails. Some other person who recently replayed FFX(used original sphere grid) noticed how he felt FFX didn't really open up until his character can go around other characters' sphere grid, mainly because all the enemies just died by one shotting them until that point and he felt that he had to go further in the game to be able to develop his characters more. Actually I believe FFX requires certain stuff to unlock more of the sphere grid. Other games make it so that the amount of experience points needed is extremely high so it's more feasible to go to the next area, and honestly most of the time there generally isn't anything there, even on the world map, except to go the next area(most of it is really until the endgame with the airship) . A bit off topic but something I noticed in my own personal replaying of them too. And other stuff like items or equipment being determined by story progress. Other games also decrease the amount of exp you gain until you only gain 1 exp if your level is higher than this current area, an example would be Trails.
I didn't want to mention this cause I rather not be a downer, but I honestly had issues with the Zodiac Age License board and I'm curious on why you put it so high. I felt the license board was really just about getting the next equipment and that's mostly it. It really didn't help that so many abilities felt useless and I honestly went through the game and beat most of the hunts(stopped at Gilgamesh cause another game I wanted to play came out) and espers with just heal, cure this status ailment, revive, and attack(and of course quickening). The only choice I felt was with the initial job selection(Which when I played, you couldn't change it which can screw you if you decide not to have white magic which was the only other thing i put on my gambits besides attack. But I believe there was an update) and giving the characters their espers which mostly just went to "you can equip this weapon now". Though I believe one did give haste. While I did like picking which job they get so they can get different weapons, which did have some small differences between them like crossbows has faster firing rate and other weapons have different combo rate, I did feel that they really needed abilities that were more useful as the License board again felt like "get the next best weapon". Because of this, I would put the license board way lower but again that's my opinion. We don't have to agree on that.
FFTA gets the best of both worlds there
>Ultima Weapon
>teach you to flee
>obtain better gear
>cant equip it cus im still learning shit from previous gear
Garbage mechanic
>Makes gear multifaceted by not simply being "BIGGER NUMBER BETTER"
>Garbage
Fuck off.
It's multifaceted if you have to keep the item because it can't be permanent. It's just busywork the way ff9 does it.
Because you need to grind them and grinding means battles and battles mean abysmally slow ATB bars unless you play the remaster.
I like it too, but I think the biggest flaw from a casual standpoint is someone who isn't checking every nook and cranny will end up missing a piece of equipment with an important skill, which will fuck him up later. There are ways to solve this, though, so it isn't such a dealbreaker.
I love 7, 8 and 9's systems. They all feel unique and engaging in different ways. It was the sphere grid that kind of killed ability innovation I think, given the license board, crystarium and the basic skill systems in 15 and 16 all seem to continue to ape and simplify it. 5 is still my favorite though.
The concept itself is fine, I like it in FFTA. I don't like it in FFIX due to how it was balanced.
In FFTA you're often ahead of the curve when it comes to learning skills, so you can go back to using the stronger weapons quickly enough because there simply aren't new skills to learn, and learning new skills also unlocks new jobs and stuff. On top of this you often battle with a party of 6 characters at least, so even if you have a couple of "skill learners" you still have some serious damage dealers.
If FFIX battles are a slow and constant annoyance, and having to learn skills on top of that slows down things further because you both
- need to engage in them more to learn skills faster and
- use sub-optimal weapons, meaning it takes longer to kill enemies
I think how much you like it depends on how much you like the game already, and also a bit when you played it. If you're not in love with the game already it's a further hindrance, whereas if you like the game you probably don't mind spending more time with it. Also bear in mind that plenty of people played FFIX before emulators were a thing, so you couldn't speed up battles. Not saying you did, but it's definitely a factor in the overall discourse.
I always loved the 'use equipment to learn techniques' model.
I like parasite eve. Which final fantasy should I play?
None of them because they all suck.
All of them because they're all great.
It was basically a tech demo for FF8's engine.
Vagrant Story
Seems the biggest problem is having to grind weaker gear when you find new gear. How to dix this? Make it quicker to learn? Make it so that you instantly learn?
If the issue is that engaging in the battle system in a chore then the problem lies in making the battles fun, not the ability system itself.
I don't really think that's the issue though. It's not about engaging with the battle system, it's about having to engage sub optimally for the purposes of learning a skill
Blue Magic says hello
Blue Magic is usually a one off, isn't it? The equivalent would be one battle then you learn the techniques
Yeah, but it's still a testament that the idea of sub-optimal engagements for the sake of long-term power gain has been a fairly entwined concept in FF. Thieving for rare items is another example. I do get that grinding skills can take a bit in that game though.
And it's not unwarranted either, because the games have had superbosses ever since WARMECH. I still think Blue Magic is just for hoarding addicts that just need to collect every golden turd in the game, learn the 1 skill that's good and then stop collecting magic.
In FF7 you had a very wide variety of useful spells; same in 5
At least they always tried something different in the past and had an inhuman output of Games.
FF6 Theories: Baram is Kefka
FF7 Theories: JENOVA controlled Sephiroth
FF8 Theories: Rinoa is Ultimecia, Squall is dead
FF9 Theories:
>JENOVA controlled Sephiroth
How is that a theory? It's stated in game
Sephiroth controlled JENOVA.
Fuck you, each new GF gave you like 8 new things to play around with, and they looked way fucking cooler than that other junk.
>Sephiroth controlled JENOVA.
Ah yes I remember when Sephiroth was obsessed with destroying the planet and using the resulting mako energy outburst to catapult the planet onto another planet to infect. Yes, those were definitely his goals, not Jenova's. He never talked about inheriting the planet for his people and being an Ancient in his final ramblings, no siree. He definitely wanted to become a space parasite.
>Baram is Kefka
The stupidest of theories pushed by actual autists obsessed with the idea that everything must be connected because their brains can't handle basic storytelling.
>Jenova controlled Sephiroth
Not a theory but a fact. Later retconned by Advent Children, but in the original game I'd say it's literally what's in the text.
What, but R=U is for real? These theories are non-canon but fun and interesting. FF9 doesn't have any for some reason, I think people don't like the scenario too much.
Of course all fan theories are just that but at least R=U has the decency to attempt to use something in the story to justify itself. Baram being Kefka is just "UH, WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF HE WAS?"
>at least R=U has the decency to attempt to use something in the story to justify itself
But it's awful, R=U uses the core theme of the story and shits on it to fabricate the theory.
All it points to is that Rinoa says a few things similar to Ultimecia.
Rinoa does that because she's in despair being put in a dire situation after inheriting the Witch powers.
The very thing R=U highlights is the exact thing that completely invalidates it - Rinoa had a lifetime of peace, happiness and love, and Squall was her Knight who pulled her away from that despair.
Ultimecia was marked for death before she was even born, she never knew a single instance of love, and Squall was her Executioner.
R=U tries to suggest "GFs made her forget" but:
Guardian Forces are only a Balamb Garden thing.
Just as Irvine said he only recently started using GFs, Rinoa too (not an orphan) only started using GFs once she got involved with SeeD.
Ultimecia does not use GFs.
If Squall had died after Rinoa got witch powers, Rinoa would either have died in space, been frozen, died alongside him, or would have had support from others.
If Squall died before, Rinoa would not have gone to space and become the incidental victim of witch possession.
If there's any theory for FF8 that everybody ignores, it's that EVERYTHING is Seifer's fault.
>Ultimecia does not use GF
But she literally junctions herself to one...
Who cares about retarded theories? FF9's story works on its own without the need of fanfiction. It uses both Zidane and Vivi as the tragic emotional lynchpins and Zidane's budding romance with Garnet as a literary device to show her gaining freedom from her royal shackles. It works.
It's so stupid. People complain about necron coming out of nowhere but every faucet of 9's story outside of the first disc suffers from the same issue to some degree.
FF7 early on becomes about killing Sephiroth. FF8 early on becomes about killing Witches. FF9 early on becomes about, what, princess Garnet? She leaves the fucking party after 2 dungeons for HALF the game and when she comes back she's useless.
felt more about stopping brahne and her eidolon superweapons to me
I'd argue Vivi and Steiner's character arcs are well realized. Freya's is forgotten by the team, Zidane's is so-so, along with Garnet's, and the other characters don't have arcs. People remember FF9 for Vivi, so at least that worked out well.
NO it forced you to spend 40 minutes keeping every boss alive so you can steal his equipment and get a new skill early.
You don’t have to steal the fairy flute, you know? You can buy it later on.
NO I DON'T FUCKING KNOW THAT, HOW WOULD I KNOW THAT, I SPENT LITERALLY 2 HOURS GETTING THAT GIANT'S SPECIAL ITEM
9's combat was fine
the problem with 9 was the graphics were worse and it pandered to furries and pedos
Because you're rarely actually choosing anything. Rarely do you say "yes, I'll use this weapon for it's special effects/damage even though I haven't learned the other skill yet." When you're free to grind, you could just learn every skill so there's no rush to learn a skill.
It also means nearly after every other battle, someone's gear has to be changed. Slows down the already slow pace.
What if there's a limited amount of technique slots you can learn?
I don't hate it, but it is kind of annoying having to equip a completely shit weapon for a long time just to learn a situationally good skill.
What if it isn't tied to the weapon directly? What if the skill it sort of just attached to the weapon, and you can detach it?
That'd be cool if you could detach a skill from an item and put it on another item. You can sort of mix and match and maybe certain weapons have restrictions. Oh wait, that's how FFX works.
That's not how FFX worked at all. You learnt techniques through the sphere grid
>Have to stick to old, weaker equipment to use the Ability
>Grind for 30-150 total fights to get enough AP to permanently learn it and finally put on better gear
Too fucking long, especially for the FF with the slowest, shittiest battles.
>Magic Stone limit is determined by a stupid fucking formula
>the party members who join later can be gimped on max magic stones if you spend any time leveling up because you wanted to grind out those early Abilities
That would be great, they should have done that. The weapons would have slots.
And the Abilities would be in magical Orbs that grow in power on their own so you could trade them between characters.
And later weapons would have more slots to let you expand the number of abilities you have at once.
What if you didn't even have weapons? What if you just had one weapon "shell" and the attributes were determined by add-ons that you picked up?
yeah materia was pretty cool
>That would be great, they should have done that. The weapons would have slots.
>And the Abilities would be in magical Orbs that grow in power on their own so you could trade them between characters.
>And later weapons would have more slots to let you expand the number of abilities you have at once.
>Hey guys let me just explain the Materia system! Ain't I a stinker?
FF9 at least does something I appreciate a lot: Every character feels distinct. Having the Thief have Thief skills is something that I really appreciated after FF6, 7 and 8 made every character interchangeable.
Another bait thread? Get it in your head, you won't make people hate 9 by simply persisting.
I liked it. FF8 on the other hand was unplayable, spending the whole game stealing magic ? What am I, homeless ?
>oh boy an upgrade
>too bad i haven't finished learning the skills from my old gear
Simple as.
But why only flee for ultimate weapon?
Yeah it's my favorite mechanic, Tales of Berseria took it and made it better and added a sassy pitch slut
The correct way to play IX is to avoid leveling up until disc 4 so you can minmax the level up bonuses.
I want to play the Excalibur II perfect game one day. Avoid levelling up until disc 4, go fast while grabbing every missable item, pick up Excalibur II in under 12 hours, then grind out optimal levelling.
I'm never gonna do it though.
Just GameShark it bro. A win is a win. It's about the end result rather than journey
Why no more gameshark for ps4 and ps5 games?
>ultima weapon has flee
That's why. Nothing to get excited for when your strongest items have abilities that you already have, not all of them do but Quina is the worst offender of this.
The game is easy enough to where you don't even need most of these spells so looking back grinding them out was kind of a waste of time.
I like it in the context of certain RPG's, but I would rather have the character learn skills from experience or allow the player to form his own special skills using some elaborate yet intuitive creation chart.
It's like you're asking me "peach or mango". Yes. Both. Do what works for the game and the world.
I like it. Gives you a reason to pay attention to your equipment instead of just hitting Optimise and ditching everything else. The only people who hate it are autists that are obssessed with getting every skill the moment it's the available but also too stupid to use the friendly animals