The classic Doom games are very old, there've been countless attempts to copy their formula, but they're still completely in their own league. Why? Why can no one develop a better horde shooter?
Why has absolutely nothing equaled or exceeded it?
The classic Doom games are very old, there've been countless attempts to copy their formula, but they're still completely in their own league. Why? Why can no one develop a better horde shooter?
Halo is better
this is the lowest iq take i've ever seen on Ganker
is the power shotgun in doom 1
We have higher standards than running around a series of identical tubes. On what basis can you say that we haven't been constantly making better games for decades?
Just look at the people that do think doom is some good standard. They reek of mental issues. You yourself talk like an autistic hipster.
>identical tubes
so you've never played doom, are retarded, or are shittily attempting to troll
>it was impossible for me to persevere with Doom in 1994, and I still can't do it. I stand aghast therefore at the news that recent years have seen the rise of Doom hipsterism whereby a (thankfully) small but significantly loud playerbase not only still plays and autistically replays Doom to completion in this day and age, but even develops so-called "WADs" — whatever that's supposed to be — which somehow — horror of horrors! — extend the game's longevity! Now I've no idea what a "WAD" is and have deliberately avoided finding out — I am sure it is something beyond stupid, and I've resolved to die without knowing what it is. So please spare my poor brain the knowledge of yet one more rank subhuman idiocy, and refrain from telling me about it. But it's obviously either new "levels", or, even worse, modified versions of existing ones, and it blows my mind that there are people in 2017 who prefer such garbage to the wealth — and even glut — of modern and immeasurably superior FPSes that exist. So we are not talking about poverty or ignorance or even extremely narrow tastes anymore, but about sickness pure and simple (if poverty and ignorance and narrow tastes were not already a sickness, to an extent, when viewed from a higher perspective, which they are), and if you are involved with this scene in any way, shape or form I can guarantee you that you are autistic — that a certified medical professional would place you somewhere on the autism spectrum and that your "WADs" would be his very diagnostic tool.
https://culture.vg/reviews/videogame-art/not-art-doom.html
Damn boys, he broke out a huge paragraph from a fart huffing journalist, It's over! Doom is terrible!
Either you are baiting or you are the author of that blog you're trying to advertise. If you can't distinguish between fucking Doom levels and need shiny colors and le new environments to guide you, maybe you are the one on the spectrum? Yeah, they didn't have a lot of textures, but you are legitimately blind if you think they are IDENTICAL.
jesus.
could be other FPSes have some of what makes doom good, but not everything.
- doom doesn't have any customization, skill trees, or any other RPGish elements. quake was originally going to be an RPG. hexen got real puzzly and let you pick from a variety of different classes. would doom be better if you could tailor your marine to your preference? maybe.
- you said horde shooter. i don't hang around doom forums or anything, but i'm not familiar with that term. regardless, doom can have different senses of space. you can have a tight maze of corridors that makes you want to not auto sprint. or, you can have a massive arena with hundreds of enemies. some games go for "horde shooting" (serious sam), some don't.
- doom has one of the most solid core mechanics in the business. i figure it has something to do with the weapons you have, versus the kind of enemies you have to deal with. shotguns are good versus pinkies, a chaingun might be a good idea for a group of lost souls. not all shooters that came after it are set up the same way. if you play halo, you can end up with a weapon you'd rather not have for the situation, so you might backtrack (during a firefight) just to find something useful.
anyway, i could be more thorough, but point being the original doom has a smoothness other games don't have. example, i love dook and blood, but they don't play quite as well.
i'd also say map design in the 90s left a LOT to be desired because what makes sense to a map maker doesn't make sense to a human being. interestingly, the boomer shooters they make these days approach map making the same way for some reason, and it always breaks my immersion.
>oh, you didn't backtrack.
>why would i backtrack? what clue did i have?
>uhhhhh
>oh, you overlooked a button.
>how the fuck was i supposed to see that square in this chunky ass looking game?
>Alex "Kierkegaard" (this is such a stupid pseudonym, I wanna punch you in the face you mouth breather)
>pointless padding rants that don't say anything other than "this thing I dislike is stupid and I don't know much about it, so I'm not going to research it further", as if that's valuable information to anyone else
>still gave Doom a 4/5
>calls other autistic
Jesus Christ, I thought this style of pretentious overanalysis died off in the early '10s.
>so many words to say nothing
>click the link
>it's worse
>a LOT worse
>(thankfully) small
This is one of the many things giving away what a retard this loser is. How many games as old as Doom are getting as much new community content every week? It can't be a "small" group that's still playing when there's more modding going on for Doom than for possibly any other game, old or new. But anyway, funny that the one guy you could find to justify your retardation is some sniveling gametellectual gay no one's ever heard of who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
yooooooooo icycalm still making waves I see. No one lays down the hammer like icy and no one has usurped him on the throne. He was like 10 years ahead of the curve with "the videogame news racket", in fact I think he's still ahead because so many remain clueless.
I wouldn't describe the original game as a "horde shooter". I traversed a maze, looking for keys, and occasionally clearing monsters out of the new room. Eventually larger groups would be there, but that's why I saved the good ammo for this area. Granted in that year I was probably playing at 1 frame per second.
>horde shooter
Fucking hell
>oh my god you used a description that I wouldn't, holy fuck what a faux pas, what a mistake, what an embarrassment
choke on shit pedantic fag
Not him, but I've only heard the term "horde shooter" used to describe a specific subgenre of FPS games, including Left 4 Dead, Payday, or Deep Rock Galactic, ie shooters where you fight hordes of dozens of enemies at a time. There are no hordes of enemies in Doom, so it's nonsensical to describe it as a "horde shooter".
What term would you prefer to describe the old Doom games on UV or Nightmare? There are shitloads of enemies thrown at the player at once. They aren't smart enemies. Except on Nightmare they mostly aren't very aggressive. They overwhelm the player by their numbers. I haven't played many shooters with more enemies on screen than Doom. Even other 2.5D shooters like Duke3D and Blood don't have anywhere near as many.
UV has a lot of enemies, but not so many that I would consider it to be a different subgenre from its contemporaries. It's just a boomer shooter with more enemies than usual.
With Nightmare, I can understand the horde shooter comparison, but I don't think a game should be categorized by an optional gamemode that was designed to be impossible to beat. That said, if the quantity of enemies in Doom 1 and 2 appeals to you, you should give Final Doom a shot if you haven't. The first half, TNT: Evilution, has the map with the highest enemy count of any official Doom map, with 332 enemies.
>you should give Final Doom a shot if you haven't
I have. That's why I picked the image I did for the OP, to show I had in mind all the classic Doom games together (Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Final Doom).
Chex Quest blew it the fuck out.
I don't really believe that new games copy their formula. The original Doom was basically designed as if it were an arcade quarter eater. It would kill you frequently and send you back to the start, with no remorse or mercy. Modern games carry you through a movie narrative, and don't really punish you for failure.
>designed as if it were an arcade quarter eater. It would kill you frequently
It occurs to me this was why early games were so difficult, we need to go back to Carnieware
Depends on your target audience. I can sympathize with the idea that the beginning of a franchise was a certain way, and then the new games were different, so maybe you feel like this isn't what you signed up for anymore.
>pill boxes cover version
>horde shooter
that's bait
>Horde shooter
You're a retard. Anyway, FEAR 1 absolutely bodies any doom game.
>You're a retard
>durr FEAR
fucking moron, FEAR isn't anything like Doom, doesn't even make sense to compare them
Doom 1 and 2 have arguably the strongest gameplay foundation of any games ever made.
The early 2D Marios on NES and SNES are probably the only things that can compare.
Holy shit I was going to say the same. I've always thought this. A modern example would be RE4. Game nailed the formula and any changes ruin it. It just needs expansions with new levels tbh.
some of it is really that good
some of it is jank, but when there's "official jank" and it's still pretty passable, it gains a magical quality
Nah duke3d was better your opinion is bad and you are bad.
Dogshit series made obsolete by Duke3D and Quake. Only redditors like doom
Dogshit take. Quake is good but it's a completely different experience, fewer enemies but each one counts because they're way more dangerous than in Doom. Aggressive play is a lot more challenging in Quake than Doom so they don't feel very similar to me. I like Duke3D for its personality but in terms of core gameplay it's a step down from Doom, maybe mostly because of its lackluster enemy roster. Other shit like the more limited ability to stunlock the machine gun hitscanners in Duke3D adds up to make it a worse experience.
Proddeus
he said better, Prodeus is good but not better.
Prodeus sucks. Basically has God mode on at all times, you can't turn that bullshit off and go for a normal checkpoint or manual save system. Gotta start from the level's beginning after every death if you want anything but a trivially easy gay experience for kids who like cheat codes. Fucking moron devs wouldn't change it even after they got a million complaints about it when it was still in early access.
it's good for casual 10 mins running around and shooting, you're probably right on the other stuff but i'm too old to enjoy wasting time on games and thinking about all the other stuff.
it's one of maybe 5 games that i'm like "ok, this feels good" in 30 years, after doom, half-life, cod4 and xonotic.
Its the enemy design. Each enemy is designed like a chess piece and every enemy feels like it was made to be used in tandem with every other enemy. In other FPS games the enemies are more "advanced" ie they have more actions they can do like having the ability to switch weapons or throw nades but with that complexity means they are less able to be easily integrated with all of the other enemies in the roster. The enemies in Doom are nearly perfectly designed with a fantastic mix of hitscan and non-hitscan enemies that force you to constantly change your approach per encounter. This mixed with how the level design integrates into combat means that every single encounter can feel unique from one-another. Few shooters or even action games in general boast a similar amount of variability between encounters as old school Doom.
I think you nailed it. That and the movement in Doom feels so damn good.
Because the original two pretty much perfected the formula that makes them so good.
>no aiming besides x axis keeps things fast and simple
>enemies are mostly not bullet sponges and there are dozens on screen at once
>player moves very fast enabling to dodge projectiles and use the environment to funnel and strategize battles
>weapons are low on ammo and each one sans the pistol has a use
>varied enemies
>sound effects are spot on. Guns are loud monsters make sounds even when they are alive and have satisfying death wails
>music is great
>graphics are simple early pseudo 3d so levels have a strange liminal space that is timeless and unique from the busy realistic cluttered levels made now
I could go on and on.
>t. Doom player since 1993 DOS