Power stone and 2 were gems and I’m tired of pretending they weren’t. I played the scissor hand guys and just threw items at people
Literally a perfect game
>Power stone and 2 were gems and I’m tired of pretending they weren’t.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that they weren't. I'm not exaggerating that either I've never heard a bad thing about Power Stone
It's got free running, some verticality, and candlesticks with sub-weapons in them. It looks like a 3D fighter when you get a hit because of the combos, but that's because it was developed by 8ing. Think of it as one part 3D fighter in the vein of SoulCal & Bloody Roar, two parts Power Stone. It also has fricking excellent classic Castlevania remixes. Get over the Death Note artist's redesigns and it's a great time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So it's like the Naruto fighters 8ing made (which funnily, I would say the Naruto fighters CC2 made would be closer to Power Stone even if they're a 2D plane)
2 years ago
Anonymous
Closer to those yeah, 8ing's licensed fighters (DNF included) generally keep very simple control schemes as opposed to Bloody Roar.
Goddamn, Eighting are based.
They really are. They manage to have some of the most beloved and the most underrated fighting games out there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Didn't they also do a lot of the work making MvC3?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yup, they were the main team behind both TvC and Marvel 3. Besides those they did Bloody Roar, Naruto Clash of Ninja, Zatch Bell Mamodo Battles, Fate Unlimited Codes, Castlevania Judgement, all those Kamen Rider arena fighters, a Zoids arena fighter, & DNF Duel. There's a couple more I'm forgetting I'm sure.
They've also done plenty of non-fighting game arcade titles in their early history, from shmups like Battle Garegga and Armed Police Batrider to light gun games like Ghoul Panic and a licensed Golgo 13 game. Also Kuru Kuru Kururin, surprisingly. 8ing fricking rules.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So what is Ono's position over there?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ono doesn't work for 8ing, if you mean Yoshinori Ono. He didn't even work with them when they worked at Capcom, Ryota Niitsuma was the Capcom producer for TvC & Marvel 3. Ono moved from Capcom to one of the companies that worked on Type Lumina (I don't think it was French Bread itself but he did have something to do with the game).
Has to charge the audience for basic features, soon we'll get charged for the HP bars and attacks.
Can't innovate or use any new animations.
Not allowed to have soul
Needs to be corporate
I don't think it rejected it, it just didn't become the #1 subgenre of fighting game. Power Stone clones were a thing throughout the late 90s and early 2000s (a ton of IPs got them, from One Piece to Tom & Jerry to Billy & Mandy to Castlevania, etc.) and the two actual Power Stone games got that PSP collection.
>Itsuno will rehash DMC & Dragon's Dogma a hundred times before we ever see another Power Stone
>even indie devs can't seem to make a good Power Stone copy
...why are we here? Just to suffer?
Itsuno himself mentioned Power Stone out of the blue a couple years ago, saying it would likely sell well on Switch, and that was before the big leaked lineup of Capcom games had a Power Stone reboot on it.
If Power Stone wasn't on the DC, it'd be a big deal.
I love the Dreamcast, but being on the market for not even 3 years meant that it didn't matter how good the game was, it wasn't going to be that influential without being ported elsewhere ASAP.
>I'm a hardcore gaymer because I spent 100 hours memorizing moves and dial-a-combo bullshit in a training room like an autist
hmm I wonder why this isn't appealing to basically anyone. if fighting games were actually about skill and not rote memorization they'd be worth shit, but as of right now they're stagnated because of autists like you
Fantasy Strike
Rising Thunder
Granblue
DNF Duel
Divekick
Scrubs will just find other shit to b***h about because they can't handle losing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Fantasy Strike >Rising Thunder >Divekick
Failing? Are you fricking serious?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Adding onto this, almost every single popular game has added easy input options at this point or added stupid shit like crush counters to better illustrate things for scrubs. Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Fighter Z, Mortal Kombat all have something like that
Meanwhile I'm pretty sure Tekken still has none of that shit, does nothing to teach scrubs, and still outsold all those games
2 years ago
Anonymous
MK is the best selling series out of the ones you mentioned.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Meanwhile I'm pretty sure Tekken still has none of that shit, does nothing to teach scrubs, and still outsold all those games
Tekken is also a smash bros. tier party game for third-worlders, the only reason it has any degree of popularity is because it lets you play like an absolute chimp and get away with it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tekken can't add simple inputs because simple inputs is all it's ever had. I have no idea why Gankeredditors like to pretend that Tekken is the hardcore game when it's the easiest, most casual fighting game of all.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That would be +R.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because every character has 100 moves. So yeah mashing works for casuals who has like 10hr tops in fighting games over 40 years but competetively is a deep fricking rabbithole
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's not that black and white. For example a game like Fantasy Strike has simple inputs but it also has a very ugly, cheap art design and unappealing/lame cast of characters. And tranime fighters like Granblue and Duel never had a chance of getting over with anybody outside of weebs so it's hardly a convincing example of simplified inputs being a fail.
When it comes down to it, if a game isn't cool, people aren't going to play it regardless of the mechanics. Imo, a better test case than the cherrypicked examples you brought up is Mortal Kombat. That is a series that proves that simplified casual inputs(no links, motions, charge chars, etc) are not a "failure".
And yes, MK is an example of a FG with simplified inputs. Like when Ed & co were making MK they specifically rejected motion controls, strict timing for combos, or anything overly complex execution wise because they wanted their game to be more accessible to casuals&console owners than SF was at the time, and that approach was without a doubt a reason why MK grew to such popularity and was able to challenge SF in the arcade. The point is, simple inputs + the game/chars actually looking cool can and has worked.
2 years ago
Anonymous
isn't Mortal Kombat combo-heavy as frick? I remember seeing massive chains (heh) in 10 with Scorpion, everyone was doing the same multiple teleport chain spam kickflip bullshit over and over
it's objectively poor design. my older brother is into fighting games and whenever I want to have a match with him I find myself constantly pausing just so I can look at my move list; he's always at an advantage because he's memorized countless combos and moves. he'll get a hit in and then just pull of some giant combo as I get juggled like a sandbag enemy in DMC
I'm not interested in memorizing inputs and combos like an autist and shit like pic related annoys the shit out of me
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's objectively poor design.
No, fighting games aren't for casuals, they require commitment for you to be competent.
2 years ago
Anonymous
then don't complain when fighting games die in a month and you can barely find a match on fightcade besides other turbo-autists
2 years ago
Anonymous
At least it will die not pandering to morons like you
2 years ago
Anonymous
It might actually, all things considered.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fighting games are niche because of the commitment, but that's also the reason why they have a hardcore playerbase. Leveling up your game is a real world skill, not some RPG in game mechanic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've seen you saying this exact same post in the 10+ shitposting threads kek
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's funny, because i can boot up decade old fighting games and find a match right now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Daily reminder everyone and their grandmas player sf2 at the arcades
Those children that were just passing by and played a match are probably better than you who is stuck in silver in sfv, the shittiest of them all
2 years ago
Anonymous
And you can't even do that aww poor babby
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Admits he's a sfv baby
Say whatever witty reddit comebacks you got
I already won
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not that anon you replied to originally. I did play SF2 at arcades. I'm also Diamond in SFV. Suck my dick.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thats cute
But i dont see any real proof
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't play Street Fighter anymore, I haven't enjoyed the series since Alpha.
2 years ago
Anonymous
An honorable death is it's own reward
2 years ago
Anonymous
not who you're responding to but
those are super easy. jealousy and fake might take some tries to get used to. all of them are just half circles lul
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's bad game design because the player who puts in more work gets rewarded.
homie you suck.
2 years ago
Anonymous
right, great design, in fact they should make even basic attacks require a 15 chain input so that it can be even more hardcore
there is absolutely nothing to be lost in making moves easier to perform and this is a fact; having the game be more about knowing WHEN to use your moves and not HOW to use them should be the goal here. if I want a fireball I can either press R1 and X, or it can be > ^ * >/ X > > / ^ <*><[*]>Z
one of these is objectively better design
2 years ago
Anonymous
Again, they've already done this over and over. There's not a single game that doesn't have some sort of simple mode now. It has done nothing to solve the problem
Simple inputs don't help. We're simplifying games for no positive gains. The only games that do it and live (FighterZ, Mortal Kombat, soon to be League fightan) are carried by brand names or have actual singleplayer content. You cannot change the fact that a player who has put more time into fundamentals and game knowledge will always beat a shitter with simple inputs who does not want to learn
2 years ago
Anonymous
Something these morons don't understand is that simplified inputs make them a lot more predictable.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>See Guile crouching
gee I wonder what he's gonna dooo
2 years ago
Anonymous
then get in if it's so easy to predict
2 years ago
Anonymous
>dhalsim fire into kick
get in?
2 years ago
Anonymous
which version of dhalsim does "fire into kick"? it's kick into fire if you're talking about that beginner combo
also i was just shitposting lul
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Guile is crouching >walk forward >block the booms >keep walking
WOOOOOOOWWWW
2 years ago
Anonymous
NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT!
2 years ago
Anonymous
>there is absolutely nothing to be lost in making moves easier to perform
There is, however. Special moves are special for a reason. The execution barrier introduces a moment of vulnerability. For the split second you input a dragon punch, you are not blocking. It's a factor in your decision making that you need to consider and that can be eliminated through proper training. It adds a layer of depth into the match, a skill check that if passed puts you above your opponent.
Are you disabled? homie, we're talking about quarter circle and half circle movements. Acting like this puts an impossible obstacle in your game is fricking ridiculous. Most of us figured this shit out when we were little kids. Why can't you? It's okay, though. You don't have to. Keep playing Smash, but remember to take a shower.
2 years ago
Anonymous
certain command grabs have limitations on their use because there need to be certain circumstances in play in order to be able to pull off a 360. in return, it comes out instantaneously. this allows it to be used defensively; you can input the command in blockstun and use it to punish moves that are otherwise safe. if the command grab came out with just a direction and a button press, then it would have to be telegraphed rather than instantaneous, which means it can't be used defensively, overall limiting the number of potential abilities a character can have. this of course is in addition to the tried-and-true example of how typical shoto inputs create an entirel different playstyle from charge inputs with technically the same two moves (just with slightly different properties to match the inputs); you can simplify them into just a Smash-style input and either one is just outright better than and obsoletes the other, or you just merge them into a single basic fireball/uppercut character, limiting the available options and playstyles
how? see [...]
scenario A: you have 50 moves but they are all easy to get out
scenario B: you have 50 moves that are all difficult to get out
you still have 50 moves in both of these, but one has a lower execution barrier and is thus more accessible without reducing complexity
so no, you don't still have the same number available after simplifying the movesets.
be very careful with the word "objectively," because misuse of it can make one look quite foolish; better to be wrong and humble than wrong and conceited about it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I just did some research and it seems to show that you are objectively a homosexual.
Learn the meaning of words before using them.
then don't complain when fighting games die in a month and you can barely find a match on fightcade besides other turbo-autists
No one beside normalgays like you actually do this. If you morons don't see moba numbers a game is "dead: to you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You should realize by now that most fighting games use some variation of quarter-circle, z-input, charge, and half-circle inputs, sometimes stuff like 360s and down-down. It's pretty easy to just mash out inputs and see what works on a new character.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fighting games do have objectively bad design but the inherent concept of motions aren't. It's how the interpereters read them is usually garbage
>I'm a hardcore gaymer because I spent 100 hours memorizing moves and dial-a-combo bullshit in a training room like an autist
hmm I wonder why this isn't appealing to basically anyone. if fighting games were actually about skill and not rote memorization they'd be worth shit, but as of right now they're stagnated because of autists like you
the entire point of the video this slide was made for is "the inputs aren't why fighting games are hard and there's nothing the game can do that will make you good if you aren't willing to work" which makes it pretty funny that some special needs child picked it as his shitpost of choice
Harada just said this exact shit in some IGN interview for Tekken 8. He was saying how making the series more accessible isn't going to just magically make people win. In fact, it's going to be even easier for better players to beat your ass
not having to learn complex moves, not having to pause mid-game to look at a move list and lowering the execution barrier would absolutely make new players more likely to win
the sooner you can get someone actually playing the game rather than having to grind in a training room, the better
right, great design, in fact they should make even basic attacks require a 15 chain input so that it can be even more hardcore
there is absolutely nothing to be lost in making moves easier to perform and this is a fact; having the game be more about knowing WHEN to use your moves and not HOW to use them should be the goal here. if I want a fireball I can either press R1 and X, or it can be > ^ * >/ X > > / ^ <*><[*]>Z
one of these is objectively better design
scenario A: you have 50 moves but they are all easy to get out
scenario B: you have 50 moves that are all difficult to get out
you still have 50 moves in both of these, but one has a lower execution barrier and is thus more accessible without reducing complexity
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because a simplified moveset removes the variety.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Consider the following
Fireball used to be QCF+Punch
Now it's forward punch, you are losing any and all forward punches you have fewer options, I can approach you directly knowing that my approach will only be met with a forward kick or a fireball, you had 50 options, now you have 40 options.
Tatsu was QCB kick, now it's down kick, I now know that if you opt to not use fireball, you are going to make yourself very vulnerable and full commit to a tatsu instead of a light kick, you had 50 options, now you have 30
Dragon punch was FDDF+P now it's back punch, you will never crush me. You had 50 options, now you have 20.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Consider the following >Makes up the worst control scheme known to man when most buttons go unused in fightan games
I see...
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes simplified controls are the worst.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So why is DNF duel dead
why aren't you fricking homosexuals screaming for simplified controls not playing the games that actually do this shit for you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm arguing against simplified controls bub.
>Consider the following >Makes up the worst control scheme known to man when most buttons go unused in fightan games
I see...
Propose the input for 4 moves
Fireball
Tatsu
Dragon punch
Focus attack
Do that without taking any other inputs, Also consider that simple controls in 6 take away light medium heavy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
thats not how it actually is in reality
you can't have 50 easy to get out moves
you barely have 30 moves, 10 of those are east to get out
new player sees those 30 moves, and uses like 5 total because they are the easiest
gets fricking washed effortlessly because he fights with 5 moves against people who use more moves than him, some of which serve no purpose but to punish certain specific moves
and no, even if your hypothetical scenario of 50 easy to get out moves would exist, its still would take time and practice to figure out which moves out of these 50 are best used for certain scenarios
then what, you going to ask that for moves to be move universal in their application? so now about half of your moves are irrelevant, because each does two things at once, some even 3
then you going to ask for overall reduction of movelist
and at some point you are going to end up with fricking dive kick
Not really, I'm excited for 6 but the "simple" moveset is going to cause lots of players to overnight SOLVE new players using the simple moveset effectively creating a second ceiling made of concrete
no it wouldn't, because no one has to pause to look at the move list after like 5 hours of play. These are simply not problems that matter to people that have actually put in enough time to even be thinking about beating people that know what they're doing, much less the actual good players. And it makes the intermediate players that they might manage to beat once in a while by getting lucky much less likely to frick up and let them win, which is the only way someone that is still new enough to not even have their entire movelist memorized has even a 1% chance at victory.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes it would. You keep talking about pausing the game as if that wouldn't continue to happen.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here
You said simplifying the game would make new players more likely to win because they wouldn't have to stop to look up up movesets and inputs. That simply isn't a factor at any level of play where skill matters already. If you haven't even learned your character's moves you aren't winning vs someone that has, no matter how simple the game is.
And, again, making the game harder to play makes beginners more likely to get lucky against mid level players, because the mid level players are by definition better than them already and will win most of the time, unless they make mistakes and the new players get to take advantage of them, which is less likely to happen the simpler you make the game. That's why people fricking hated DNF Duel.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You said simplifying the game would make new players more likely to win because they wouldn't have to stop to look up up movesets and inputs
I literally never said this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>"not having to learn complex moves, not having to pause mid-game to look at a move list and lowering the execution barrier would absolutely make new players more likely to win "
there's pretending to be moronic and then there's this. Try not to choke on your own tongue.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Who are you quoting? I said simplified move sets just make people who don't play more predictable.
2 years ago
Anonymous
follow the post chain anon, you seem confused
2 years ago
Anonymous
So do you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
it's not that complicated, just one quote per post, you can do it, I believe in you
>the sooner you can get someone actually playing the game rather than having to grind in a training room, the better
You morons just don't understand, do you? Look at Age of Empires 2. Game is hard as frick, tutorials teach shit, yet it has numbers so consistent it's obvious fighting games are doing something wrong because other than F2P dogshit, you can't prove there's a fighting game with as many players as AoE2. What are fighting games lacking? Single AND coop modes so you can hop in. I don't expect sf6 to fill that gap (I'd be surprised if it has ANY sort of coop) but if fighting devs don't realize people want to play together and not against them, people will continue to skip fighting games
2 years ago
Anonymous
>fighting game but you play together instead of fighting them
what are you even talking about dude this makes no sense
2 years ago
Anonymous
AoE2 is an exception and not the rule. Look at almost any other RTS and see how high the playercounts are. RA3 has around 300 people playing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're kind of right, but you're also missing the point.
What you're basically saying is "fighting games aren't popular because people don't want to play competitively" which is true.
Aoe2 is actually a great example. AoE2 has 21k concurrent player peaks and Strive has 3.8k, a massive difference right?
but Strive's ladder has 46000 people that have played a ranked match in the last week and AoE2 has only 41000 over the entire current season, going by ratingsupdate.info and AoEZone.net respectively.
But that's despite AoE2 offering way more singleplayer and co-op casual modes than Strive which has almost nothing. Singleplayer and co-op casuals just don't go online. No matter what singleplayer stuff you add or how many casual friendly features you come up with, there's just only that many people willing to actually play competitively, and the people that are willing already are, at most you can maybe swing a few percent of casuals that wanted to try but got filtered, but not many. If you're a fighting game dev and trying to increase your pool of active players engaging with the primary form of gameplay, ie fighting each other, there's actually almost nothing you can do but make the best game you can and add as many QoL features like rollback as possible and hope the relatively tiny handful of people that actually want competition decide to play your game instead of someone else's.
And if all you want is sales then gameplay doesn't matter anyway and the most important thing is just having a popular IP.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok, so what you're saying is that a fighting game that barely offers any single player content and is brand new (compared to 2019 AoE) tops by a little bit a remake of an old game rich with single player content. That is an embarrassment instead of an accomplishment from Strive (and other fighting games). Old games with new fresh paint like AoE2 are not bought to start the Joan of Arc campaign, they're played to jump right straight into multiplayer. That's where coop saves AoE and fricks fighting games in the long run. Why do you think devs need to keep coming up with new fighting games all the time? They know everybody just stops having "fun" playing ranked. The people you count on AoE stay playing without being competitive, the only reason people play Strive now is to be competitive. The mind set from devs is completely backwards and hurt the games in the long run. Smash is another example of a fighting game with so much coop/vs/single player content that they could have just added more characters until the end of the Switch (they didn't because they're idiots). Again, rich coop content is what is needed in this genre. These dumb ass devs are just obsessed with e-sports, we're doomed
2 years ago
Anonymous
AoE2 was presumably picked because it's the most popular online rts except maybe starcraft 2 which isn't on steam, I wasn't the first person to mention it. It being 20 years old and having no real competition is actually kinda sad.
But yeah, fighting games are about fighting other people. They're an inherently competitive genre. Fighting the AI is fricking boring, without the human element there's no reason to play them at all. That's why the casuals that do buy them, even in the games with a lot of singleplayer stuff like MK just run through the story mode a couple times until they've seen all the cutscenes and then quit. If you start trying to appeal to the people that want nothing but casual content you get farther and farther away from fighting games until you just make something like Streets of Rage or DMC or For Honor or whatever instead.
But the people b***hing about fighting games don't actually want to play those, or they would be and they wouldn't be whining. They want to play fighting games, because they see shit like the Daigo parry or some hype DBFZ clip or whatever, but the stuff that makes fighting games actually good is completely reliant on the direct competition between humans involved. >we're doomed
No, you're actually pandered to by 90% of the videogame industry and are just crying about the one genre that doesn't. Your entire argument is "fighting games are an inherently niche genre."
Yes, this is true, because fighting games are inherently competitive and designed to be played by one person against another person. That's why the people that like them like them. You could make a different genre of game and it might be more popular, but then it wouldn't be a fighting game any more, and the people that want to play fighting games but don't for whatever reason will just continue to cry about the games that are.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You know people play both rts and fighting game for fun right?
Besides aoe speaks to casual history enjoyers of which their campaigns placates
Who the frick actually takes fighting games story mode super duper seriously? I don't think i ever saw mortal kombat lore threads lul
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Who the frick actually takes fighting games story mode super duper seriously? I don't think i ever saw mortal kombat lore threads lul
A bit brash of me to say. The genre have been focusing more on that aspect so maybe those games i've missed have fleshed out that aspect of them more. I remember those mortal kombat vignettes before 9 and always thinking how lame they were. 3-4 slides after beating single player per character. Peak lame
>every casual focused fighter has done away with every motion on here but quarter circles >the games sell slightly better but then no one sticks around to play more than the fighters that keep them
just dont play fighting games my guy, stop being filtered
I have only been playing fightan for a year or two and I have trouble with DP motions, but that's because almost every character I play doesn't have a DP. I also don't even know what the frick that first one is.
Classic Fighting games is literally just real time chess, you have x possible moves in any situation as does your opponent you need to figure out your way to a win.
The genre is already perfect
If you want top tier multiplayer combat between two human beings you play a fighting game
It's crazy how much foresight capcom had when designing fighting games with street fighter
They have though? Look at the disparity between something like SF and Blazblue, or the existence of tag based games etc.
The level of divergence between FGs is no different than what you'd see with mobas, FPS or RPGs
>Why have fighting games changed so little over the last 30 years?
SF2 come out and revolutionizes fighting games, tons of fighting games come out in the 90's and 00's with all new and difference mechanics, barely any of them match the standard SF2 brought to the table.
Capcom accidentally almost perfected the formula with SF2. And yes, it was an accident, they didn't really know what they were doing. Even combos were a bug that they left in. In any case, SF2's general design was perfect. After that, only things left to do were incremental graphics upgrades and mechanics polish.
lower financial barrier to entry in arcades and infinite replay value with siblings so better value if you can only afford a few console games. same goes for latin america
Takes no effort to make >Takes no effort to play so Japanese salarymen who are exhausted from sitting in an office all day can mindlessly click "attack" and occasionally "heal" to beat the game
People are drawn to this board due to it's unique nature of being anonymous. I.E. people who aren't proud of themselves come here, If people here were good at games they'd be in communities where they could brag about that.
Because traditional fightan gays (Street shitters)
are contempt just memorizing blockstrings instead of actually playing a game, thus they ironically can't adapt to any changes to the format, despite Strikers and Tags being superior
based, frick fighting games, Smash is unironically superior to all of them due to how easy it is to pick up but how hard it is to truly master
shame Ultimate doesn't have rollback though
We just going to throw the spacing, positioning, and timing aspect of fighting games out the window? We just going to pretend that there isn't a mental component involved to a guy getting tilted to his opponent always waking up DP until the one moment it counts? We going to throw out character specific interactions? Damn.
>casual normalgays cry about fighting games being hard >fighting games add shitty baby mode inputs, auto combos, and normals with moronproof hitboxes so you don't have to spend time practicing >said games all die within few months
>meanwhile fighting games who decide to not cater to people who don't play >still have constant playerbase and active online, still takes less than a minute find someone to play with
just another proof that fighting games don't need to change a thing about them
Strive did simplify, but it also actually did act as a place for a lot of people who might have only been spectators in the past to get into fighting games. Older GG games could get a lot of talk or admiration about them, but not so many people actually playing, while Strive managed to be a game a wider audience actually wanted to play. Personally I'm not playing Strive right now because it gets pretty boring, and maybe those people who got into fighting games with Strive will eventually find it boring too, but I think it's the rare instance of appealing to people who don't play actually working, because Strive pulled in a lot of new players not just for the series, but for the genre, and while I personally would have rathered Rev 3 or something like it, I don't think a game that kept in the same vein as Xrd could have done that.
>more transparent about stuff
This, communication is key. The fact that so many casuls get tripped up by special inputs is bad enough, when they already make these motions all the time in other vidya without even noticing it. But on the subject of specials, the critical concept of special cancelling is completely lost on the uninitiated. They'll try to do some combo in the tutorial and wait for the whole move to play out instead of cancelling it into a special early like you're supposed to. There's a lot of core concepts like that which have been integral aspects of the genre for decades, and yet they get glossed over while leaving new players in the dark.
So this is the thread where KoF chads show off their actually difficult inputs compared to street babies?
KOF is another good example of this, so many new players were seething when XV came out because they didn't know about input shortcuts for supers, or hold buffering.
You are comparing my sad shitty boring existence with nothing interesting going on to fighting games?
I think I am a bit more alive than that garbage lmao
Black person you can't do shitposting on Ganker everyday and still believe you are alive LMAO. I guess morons have their own moronic level of cope.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So how do you cope with fighting games being dead?
I need to learn from the experts
2 years ago
Anonymous
But they are not dead in your head though? You still mention and whine about them like a lovesick girl. Which one hurt you in the past huh?
2 years ago
Anonymous
MvC2 hurt me by being the peak
and every single game before or after being irrelevant
Now, expert coper
are you gonna teach me your ways or are you gonna pussy out?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's a capeshit subhuman
But of course. It checks out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>He pussied out
Whats the matter? Your god Justin
Wong told you to not play that one?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Pussied out on what? Giving you a rope to have a nice day? And who is Justin? Your mutt eceleb savior?
except autists usually play a shit ton of different genres meanwhile normies fall into the same QTE moviegame simulator like TLoU and Elden Ring
If anything autists enjoy mechanical intensive genres because they see quality beyond stupid stories, meanwhile normies fall for the same shitty stories and eat anything with music set into a basic modal emotional chord music
Elden Ring is basically a movie game marketed as a hardcore game, it has all the garbage from simplified mechanics for mass consumerism, mastering your own movesets doesn't take more than 20 minutes and everything else is just filler so you keep playing
>mastering your own movesets doesn't take more than 20 minutes
That means it's a good game, intuitive, simple and really popular. Watch and learn fighting games.
doing shit like this will always be fricking impossible for me
my brain just outright refuses to understand it, it's like rubbing your head and patting your stomach and then swapping, to me at least. the first 3 parts are easy, but it's that little switch that fricks me every single time
idk man, like it's because it doesn't follow the flow of the first 3 inputs. if it was a diagonal up-right I could make sense of it since it's going in a circular pattern, but the down-right out of nowhere just fricks my head-mind connection
having to do that for a ton of other moves, remembering them all and then having to do it all on the fly is like a nightmare
do sticks make this kinda stuff easier?
quarter circle to one direction, then half circle to the opposite direction. pull it off once and it'll start clicking. the motion is 100x simpler than the imagery describing it
Do you have to wear a helmet when you go outside? Just run your thumb over the dpad from down, to forward, and then back. It's not rocket surgery mate... jesus fricking christ.
what helps me is imagining real motion
imagine yourself irl doing uppercut followed by duck evade and backstep
if you were a game character, thats how you would do that
displays like that suck because it compartmentalizes each point on the stick as a discrete input rather than turning it into one fluid motion like it's supposed to be. that was my main issue when i first started playing. i've always found pic related to be more helpful when learning.
this is helpful too, thanks Anon. might sound moronic but I guess I've gone beyond that point already, but that looks a lot easier on an analog stick than it would be on a d-pad; do most fighting games allow you to use an analog stick for inputs, including old ones like SF2?
Arcade joysticks aren't analog, they're digital. Effectively its just a d-pad but you tilt the lever to hit directions instead just directedly pressing a direction down.
For the older arcade sticks There are individual mechanical switches triggered in the direction the stick goes. An arcade stick is like 4-8 different ON/OFF switches, not a single variable input.
There were analog arcade sticks for a fair few games as well. However, most fighting game arcade cabinets have always used few miniswitches, like how
For the older arcade sticks There are individual mechanical switches triggered in the direction the stick goes. An arcade stick is like 4-8 different ON/OFF switches, not a single variable input.
mentions. If you open up an arcade stick today, they still use these miniswitches, each of them corresponding to a different direction.
In KOF you can get away with the first quarter circle forward by doing the motion into your command normal and then half-circle back into your super buttons and holding the buttons for the guaranteed frame 1 activation.
The first one is called buffered input and the second one is called button hold trick (which is another kind of buffer input).
You're probably flowcharting too hard. If they've figured out what you're doing, just do the opposite. If they know when you're gonna overhead, hit them low or throw instead
Or just play slower and shittier. Leave some gaps in your blockstrings so they think they can punish it and fish for a counter hit
SF is more prevalent than KOF these days. I think it looks like shit, SFV played like garbage and the animations look like playdoh. SFVI looks even worse. Don't have time to grind tekken anymore but the community is awesome and the game is way better.
They were essentially on pause for the majority of the 2000s and the first half of the 2010s was playing catch up with nostalgia bait releases that didn't innovate.
It's not, but then they go into a real match and can't get it because they're mashing so the game is now bullshit with a barrier of execution in motions. It's nothing that hasn't been discussed before, losing in a 1v1 fighting game feels way worse as you have no outside factors to blame so naturally people's egos feel more threatened.
Goes for both side
Genuine morons cant do a Z motion
Then hardstuck silvers inflated their egos because they are playing the easiest series in the genre. Street Fighter
>Why have fighting games changed so little over the last 30 years?
The same shit can be said about FPS games. The core game is the same and cant be really changed but the devs experiment with everything around it. In the end of the day if you dont enjoy the core gameplay then fighting games or fps are not for you
Fightan Games don't evolve because the core audience refuses to adapt. They LIKE slurping up the game garbage gameplay that has not changed in 30 years.
Developers have also been unable to sell the genre to non-core audience. Which means the genre stays unchanging. This is both a blessing and a curse.
Other genres with the same problem: Beat 'em Ups, Shoot 'em Ups(both vertical and horizontal), MMOs. To a much lesser degree, RPGs.
homie, they've been casualized in a million ways since sfiv. From SFIV shortcuts, 1 button specials like smash all the way to literally turning them into a 1 button press like strive.
They were supposed to get more complex and add more mechanics.
There's a reason why MK and Tekken remain as the best selling fighting games, they've refused to dumb down the core gameplay.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about input complexity, but doing something more creative with the basic premise of "two (or maybe more) players fight each other" than what amounts to a copy of Street Fighter 2.
there's a shitload of games about fighting that aren't "fighting games" already. If they didn't want to play games that are basically highly evolved SF2 they wouldn't be crying about getting filtered by them.
because every time someone tries to innovate in any way shape or form, purists declare it isn't a fighting game. it's like if FPSgays said that any game that required you to aim on the vertical axis wasn't an FPS game, because it wasn't a clone of Doom mechanically.
I might advocate for simple controls in so far as the games preferred combos not wanting arbitrarily near frame perfection, but that's never really what's being asked for as much as "fireball hard"
Look up a Sagat combo in SF2 versus a Sagat combo in SF4 versus a Sagat combo in SF5. They're quite different from where they started even on the most basic level. Throw in the large amount of mechanics and changes in neutral due to screen space from going from 4:3 to 16:9 and you have alot of evolution in just 1 series.
Paypig genre that makes you pay for frame data, pay for DLC "characters" that have reused animations, completely soulless corporate UI and design, streamer and e-celeb obsessed sensitive fanbase etc etc
-fighting games exploded at sf2
-this created many sf2 clones
-some found a gimmick that filled a niche
-after many versions of sf2, capcom tried to reboot sf2 with alpha/ex/sf3 and failed miserably
-many years go by and only the niche games thrived
-sf4 happens and explodes in popularity thanks to sf2 nostalgia, however making the game easier to play did irreversible harm to the entire genre
we're still stuck in the sf4 clones saga and every single fighting game series is worse off now
They have changed a shit-ton.
They don't make any Street fighter 2 style fighting games anymore. They are almost a completely different genre of video game.
They have. Most people don't play them so they don't notice, they like the romance of being good at fighting games but don't like the game play itself. At the very least they've changed as much as shooters
Because the core fundamentals that make these games good are too intertwined within the genre. Devs have tried doing weird and strange things but it never catches on. Fighting games are about incremental change to the mechanics or revamping characters in style and ability. That being said allot of video game genres have stayed virtually the same. But people levy this criticism to fighting games more because of how static the playgrounds of these games are. We have crazy open world games while fighting games are still 2 dudes on a small stage. But hey SF6 is trying to change that so maybe you should support them.
All that really matters is that it interests you and that you can find people at your skill level in it. The latter part is harder to manage, but if you play something when it's new or if it's just really popular and has a big playerbase it's not an issue usually.
>best fightan to get into fightans
if you don't have friends and are just gonna play with other morons in random online matchmaking, you need to pick one of the highest playercount ones like Strive (best), SF5 or SF6, MK11, Tekken 7-8
No he doesn't, at least if he doesn't find those games fun. There's plenty of games with playable online that aren't in the top tier of player numbers with people in low-mid ranks. Finding a game you enjoy should be the first step, otherwise learning the systems and a character will be a chore.
no, those smaller games have enough population for a mid level player maybe but you really are not gonna get anywhere as a brand new player bashing your head into ranked without some actual irl friends to learn with
The formual was perfected with Third Strike. Its commercial failure was because of the broaerd trend of arcades going away, rather than anything to do with the game. Everything since has been trying to fix problems that don't exist, or redesign mechanics that were perfected 20 years ago.
3 was trapped on a dead console for too long. By the time PS2/Xbox received ports, the ship had sailed. Fighting games should never be platform exclusive, but particularly being Sega platform exclusive is a death sentence.
Nope. Only clearly superior if you're very shitty and dumb, or a very good consistent top 8 player. A decent Sean/Twelve/Remy will shit on a slightly below average Chun every time.
Besides the point anyhow, since we're talking about core design and mechanics.
What's wrong with getting meter on whiff exactly? It's a further risk reward scenario, and adds more depth.
lol, let me just share my username for a service that has the most toxic community going.. where people I know have been doxxed and harrassed irl.. no thanks
** Should have described more adptly - if you're letting your opponent put placement moves on screen, and you're not whiff punishing them, or stealing space; yes, they should get meter because you're not posing a threat to them, so you're probably bad at the game.
How have they changed any less than, say, 2D platformers? And that's exclusively looking at 2D stuff, not even factoring in 3D fighting games. The better question is why do people judge fighting games under a harsher lens when copying other games as a genre mold is what every game does? Why is this the go-to excuse for scrubs?
And you have a billion different Smash Bros. clones now. What's the real question? Why does SF and its contemporaries still exist? To make you mad, there.
The games are great, you're just bad. The community is awful though. Did you know "casuals" has a double-entendre meaning of "casual sex" usually guy-on-guy, and there are crazy gamer grrl thots who go because they're into that shit? The hotels at any given tournament are fricking wild. I almost fisted a guy due to peer pressure and threats of violence. But then I didn't. But yeah, all this queer and troony affirmation in FGC isn't new or some kind of advent. It's been building up for a long time now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the games are great
They really aren't, play more and go deeper you'll realise how fricking atrocious they are.
The fact I used to play and compete will make you seethe though because you believe the fgc lies
2 years ago
Anonymous
>durr I'm actually an expert because I have no life and did a deep dive into the genre and I sucked at everything so it's all bad hurr
Shut the frick up, scrub, no one cares about your opinion.
2 years ago
Anonymous
give us a name homosexual, i wanna laugh
2 years ago
Anonymous
Clayton Chapman
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've played the genre my whole life and still enjoy them a lot. I know I'm not at a tournament level, doesn't mean I don't "get" the games enough to hate them or whatever.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>they're bad because.... they just are! trust me im like really good at them i promise
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thanks for confirming the seething, just as I predicted
Play old and/or poverty games.
You can play your modern game(s) of choice too, but playing older and weirder games outside of your comfort zone you can become a better player with a greater appreciation for the genre.
If you already play stuff on Fightcade like 3S or KOF98 or something and want to stay there, pick a game you've never played. Fightcade has HttF, Dan-Ku-Ga, SamSho II, Cyberbots, Blitzkampf, Rumble Fish 2, etc. If you want to branch outside of Fightcade there's cheap/free indie projects to try like Kyanta 2, Fight of Steel, BftG, TFH, Among Us Arena (seriously the recent updates changed this from meme fangame to legit and it has online built-in), etc.
I ain't going to read the whole thread. But I assume that it's just: >complaining about motion inputs >complaining about combos >complaining about "tryhards" >game warring >random analogies
Honestly, I wish they'd changed far less.
Ever since GGX started making characters pre-determined functions instead of characters, it's been pretty shit.
Why is it in mugen? Is it because it's impossible to get hold of otherwise? Also come to think of it i don't think i ever watched gameplay of sf1 apart from avgn's vid on it so idk how many legacy characters stay true to how they were in sf1
If it's a copy of sf1 one to one it's impressive still
>If it's a copy of sf1 one to one it's impressive still
It uses the official sprites and music but it isn't 1:1. It tries to be a more traditional game by making each character from the game playable and making Ryu & Ken not clones of each other, on top of adding FF1 Cody as a guest. I think it captures the spirit of SF1 while making it more than shoto mirrors. It's definitely a weird game though, with throws not being a universal tool meaning some characters have zero mix and need to chip you out (but they can due to looping pressure being common) while others get proper high/low, Strike/throw, and/or left/right mix.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lmfao sounds like a funny jank fest. Cool effort they put into it >throws not being universal
Hahahahahahaha that sounds bizarre
2 years ago
Anonymous
>left/right mix.
What does this mean? I don't think i've ever heard of this phrase. I think of teleporting around with instant recovery but i know sf1 doesn't have that
2 years ago
Anonymous
he is talking about crossups
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah alright figured. That checks out then. Thanks anon
Because SF2 is the formula that stands the test of time. All you can do from there is add onto system mechanics.
Unfortunately, devs listened to a very vocal minority within the FGC and spent the past decade stripping down their games until both casuals and core players were left incredibly unsatisfied.
Thats true for combos and some punishes. Situatuional awareness and muscle memory makes up 90% of fightan skill
Why is it in mugen? Is it because it's impossible to get hold of otherwise? Also come to think of it i don't think i ever watched gameplay of sf1 apart from avgn's vid on it so idk how many legacy characters stay true to how they were in sf1
If it's a copy of sf1 one to one it's impressive still
Ryu and ken are the only playable chara in SF1. and their exactly the same. More so even than they in SF2 WW
Because the world rejected Power Stone.
The genre does not deserve to evolve.
Power stone and 2 were gems and I’m tired of pretending they weren’t. I played the scissor hand guys and just threw items at people
Literally a perfect game
>Power stone and 2 were gems and I’m tired of pretending they weren’t.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that they weren't. I'm not exaggerating that either I've never heard a bad thing about Power Stone
NTA but 10/10 game
Same reason JRPG combat is all based off dragon quest, a four hundred year old game.
It's a rock solid formula.
I can't believe people chose smash bros over power stone.
That's all just nit picky bullshit
>I can't believe people chose smash bros over power stone.
Because it's a better game you subhuman capcom homosexual
>Itsuno will rehash DMC & Dragon's Dogma a hundred times before we ever see another Power Stone
>even indie devs can't seem to make a good Power Stone copy
...why are we here? Just to suffer?
Marvel nemesis, no I'm not kidding, it's decent
Power Stone reboot was in the big Capcom Leak which has been 100% accurate so far
Black person what planet are you living on where needed to wait 11 years for a new DMC and 10 years for NEWS of DD2 is "rehashing 100 times"?
The world where Elden Ring is a qte movie game
>even indie devs can't seem to make a good Power Stone copy
Not indie but the One Piece PS clones from the PS2/GC era were pretty good
Castlevania Judgement is the most fun Power Stone clone and I'm tired of people not knowing that because of the weird redesigns.
It was a PS clone? I thought it was a 3d figher
It's got free running, some verticality, and candlesticks with sub-weapons in them. It looks like a 3D fighter when you get a hit because of the combos, but that's because it was developed by 8ing. Think of it as one part 3D fighter in the vein of SoulCal & Bloody Roar, two parts Power Stone. It also has fricking excellent classic Castlevania remixes. Get over the Death Note artist's redesigns and it's a great time.
So it's like the Naruto fighters 8ing made (which funnily, I would say the Naruto fighters CC2 made would be closer to Power Stone even if they're a 2D plane)
Closer to those yeah, 8ing's licensed fighters (DNF included) generally keep very simple control schemes as opposed to Bloody Roar.
They really are. They manage to have some of the most beloved and the most underrated fighting games out there.
Didn't they also do a lot of the work making MvC3?
Yup, they were the main team behind both TvC and Marvel 3. Besides those they did Bloody Roar, Naruto Clash of Ninja, Zatch Bell Mamodo Battles, Fate Unlimited Codes, Castlevania Judgement, all those Kamen Rider arena fighters, a Zoids arena fighter, & DNF Duel. There's a couple more I'm forgetting I'm sure.
They've also done plenty of non-fighting game arcade titles in their early history, from shmups like Battle Garegga and Armed Police Batrider to light gun games like Ghoul Panic and a licensed Golgo 13 game. Also Kuru Kuru Kururin, surprisingly. 8ing fricking rules.
So what is Ono's position over there?
Ono doesn't work for 8ing, if you mean Yoshinori Ono. He didn't even work with them when they worked at Capcom, Ryota Niitsuma was the Capcom producer for TvC & Marvel 3. Ono moved from Capcom to one of the companies that worked on Type Lumina (I don't think it was French Bread itself but he did have something to do with the game).
Goddamn, Eighting are based.
powerstone is not a fighting game
What are the requirements for a game to be a "fighting game"
It has to be approved by the council of course!
It has to not sell
And not try anything new as to not confuse boomers
Let's decide together
What do people call UFC and Fight Night if 3d fighter means tekken/soul calibur?
Sports sims
Has to charge the audience for basic features, soon we'll get charged for the HP bars and attacks.
Can't innovate or use any new animations.
Not allowed to have soul
Needs to be corporate
what the frick genre is it then
Party game for kids because street fighter is hardcore and only for adults
Also no one wants to play it at parties because it gets stale quick
Mario Party is a game in the Party genre. Power Stone has gameplay closer to Street Fighter than Mario Party no?
is it worth playing the Power Stone games single-player?
I don't think it rejected it, it just didn't become the #1 subgenre of fighting game. Power Stone clones were a thing throughout the late 90s and early 2000s (a ton of IPs got them, from One Piece to Tom & Jerry to Billy & Mandy to Castlevania, etc.) and the two actual Power Stone games got that PSP collection.
Itsuno himself mentioned Power Stone out of the blue a couple years ago, saying it would likely sell well on Switch, and that was before the big leaked lineup of Capcom games had a Power Stone reboot on it.
If Power Stone wasn't on the DC, it'd be a big deal.
I love the Dreamcast, but being on the market for not even 3 years meant that it didn't matter how good the game was, it wasn't going to be that influential without being ported elsewhere ASAP.
doesn't need to
yes they do
alright dude
>I'm a hardcore gaymer because I spent 100 hours memorizing moves and dial-a-combo bullshit in a training room like an autist
hmm I wonder why this isn't appealing to basically anyone. if fighting games were actually about skill and not rote memorization they'd be worth shit, but as of right now they're stagnated because of autists like you
There have been several games that have simplified the inputs and they've all failed
name 5
Fantasy Strike
Rising Thunder
Granblue
DNF Duel
Divekick
Scrubs will just find other shit to b***h about because they can't handle losing.
>Fantasy Strike
>Rising Thunder
>Divekick
Failing? Are you fricking serious?
Adding onto this, almost every single popular game has added easy input options at this point or added stupid shit like crush counters to better illustrate things for scrubs. Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Fighter Z, Mortal Kombat all have something like that
Meanwhile I'm pretty sure Tekken still has none of that shit, does nothing to teach scrubs, and still outsold all those games
MK is the best selling series out of the ones you mentioned.
>Meanwhile I'm pretty sure Tekken still has none of that shit, does nothing to teach scrubs, and still outsold all those games
Tekken is also a smash bros. tier party game for third-worlders, the only reason it has any degree of popularity is because it lets you play like an absolute chimp and get away with it.
Tekken can't add simple inputs because simple inputs is all it's ever had. I have no idea why Gankeredditors like to pretend that Tekken is the hardcore game when it's the easiest, most casual fighting game of all.
That would be +R.
Because every character has 100 moves. So yeah mashing works for casuals who has like 10hr tops in fighting games over 40 years but competetively is a deep fricking rabbithole
It's not that black and white. For example a game like Fantasy Strike has simple inputs but it also has a very ugly, cheap art design and unappealing/lame cast of characters. And tranime fighters like Granblue and Duel never had a chance of getting over with anybody outside of weebs so it's hardly a convincing example of simplified inputs being a fail.
When it comes down to it, if a game isn't cool, people aren't going to play it regardless of the mechanics. Imo, a better test case than the cherrypicked examples you brought up is Mortal Kombat. That is a series that proves that simplified casual inputs(no links, motions, charge chars, etc) are not a "failure".
And yes, MK is an example of a FG with simplified inputs. Like when Ed & co were making MK they specifically rejected motion controls, strict timing for combos, or anything overly complex execution wise because they wanted their game to be more accessible to casuals&console owners than SF was at the time, and that approach was without a doubt a reason why MK grew to such popularity and was able to challenge SF in the arcade. The point is, simple inputs + the game/chars actually looking cool can and has worked.
isn't Mortal Kombat combo-heavy as frick? I remember seeing massive chains (heh) in 10 with Scorpion, everyone was doing the same multiple teleport chain spam kickflip bullshit over and over
It's combo heavy but you can mash that shit out
Smash
Smash bros is still going strong.
i never was a hardcore gaymer
>memorizing moves and combos is hard
Did you pass elementary school moron
Learning information and skills that you know are worthless isn't fun.
it's objectively poor design. my older brother is into fighting games and whenever I want to have a match with him I find myself constantly pausing just so I can look at my move list; he's always at an advantage because he's memorized countless combos and moves. he'll get a hit in and then just pull of some giant combo as I get juggled like a sandbag enemy in DMC
I'm not interested in memorizing inputs and combos like an autist and shit like pic related annoys the shit out of me
>it's objectively poor design.
No, fighting games aren't for casuals, they require commitment for you to be competent.
then don't complain when fighting games die in a month and you can barely find a match on fightcade besides other turbo-autists
At least it will die not pandering to morons like you
It might actually, all things considered.
Fighting games are niche because of the commitment, but that's also the reason why they have a hardcore playerbase. Leveling up your game is a real world skill, not some RPG in game mechanic.
I've seen you saying this exact same post in the 10+ shitposting threads kek
It's funny, because i can boot up decade old fighting games and find a match right now.
Daily reminder everyone and their grandmas player sf2 at the arcades
Those children that were just passing by and played a match are probably better than you who is stuck in silver in sfv, the shittiest of them all
And you can't even do that aww poor babby
>Admits he's a sfv baby
Say whatever witty reddit comebacks you got
I already won
I'm not that anon you replied to originally. I did play SF2 at arcades. I'm also Diamond in SFV. Suck my dick.
Thats cute
But i dont see any real proof
I don't play Street Fighter anymore, I haven't enjoyed the series since Alpha.
An honorable death is it's own reward
not who you're responding to but
those are super easy. jealousy and fake might take some tries to get used to. all of them are just half circles lul
>It's bad game design because the player who puts in more work gets rewarded.
homie you suck.
right, great design, in fact they should make even basic attacks require a 15 chain input so that it can be even more hardcore
there is absolutely nothing to be lost in making moves easier to perform and this is a fact; having the game be more about knowing WHEN to use your moves and not HOW to use them should be the goal here. if I want a fireball I can either press R1 and X, or it can be > ^ * >/ X > > / ^ <*><[*]>Z
one of these is objectively better design
Again, they've already done this over and over. There's not a single game that doesn't have some sort of simple mode now. It has done nothing to solve the problem
Simple inputs don't help. We're simplifying games for no positive gains. The only games that do it and live (FighterZ, Mortal Kombat, soon to be League fightan) are carried by brand names or have actual singleplayer content. You cannot change the fact that a player who has put more time into fundamentals and game knowledge will always beat a shitter with simple inputs who does not want to learn
Something these morons don't understand is that simplified inputs make them a lot more predictable.
>See Guile crouching
gee I wonder what he's gonna dooo
then get in if it's so easy to predict
>dhalsim fire into kick
get in?
which version of dhalsim does "fire into kick"? it's kick into fire if you're talking about that beginner combo
also i was just shitposting lul
>Guile is crouching
>walk forward
>block the booms
>keep walking
WOOOOOOOWWWW
NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT!
>there is absolutely nothing to be lost in making moves easier to perform
There is, however. Special moves are special for a reason. The execution barrier introduces a moment of vulnerability. For the split second you input a dragon punch, you are not blocking. It's a factor in your decision making that you need to consider and that can be eliminated through proper training. It adds a layer of depth into the match, a skill check that if passed puts you above your opponent.
Are you disabled? homie, we're talking about quarter circle and half circle movements. Acting like this puts an impossible obstacle in your game is fricking ridiculous. Most of us figured this shit out when we were little kids. Why can't you? It's okay, though. You don't have to. Keep playing Smash, but remember to take a shower.
certain command grabs have limitations on their use because there need to be certain circumstances in play in order to be able to pull off a 360. in return, it comes out instantaneously. this allows it to be used defensively; you can input the command in blockstun and use it to punish moves that are otherwise safe. if the command grab came out with just a direction and a button press, then it would have to be telegraphed rather than instantaneous, which means it can't be used defensively, overall limiting the number of potential abilities a character can have. this of course is in addition to the tried-and-true example of how typical shoto inputs create an entirel different playstyle from charge inputs with technically the same two moves (just with slightly different properties to match the inputs); you can simplify them into just a Smash-style input and either one is just outright better than and obsoletes the other, or you just merge them into a single basic fireball/uppercut character, limiting the available options and playstyles
so no, you don't still have the same number available after simplifying the movesets.
be very careful with the word "objectively," because misuse of it can make one look quite foolish; better to be wrong and humble than wrong and conceited about it.
I just did some research and it seems to show that you are objectively a homosexual.
Learn the meaning of words before using them.
No one beside normalgays like you actually do this. If you morons don't see moba numbers a game is "dead: to you.
You should realize by now that most fighting games use some variation of quarter-circle, z-input, charge, and half-circle inputs, sometimes stuff like 360s and down-down. It's pretty easy to just mash out inputs and see what works on a new character.
Fighting games do have objectively bad design but the inherent concept of motions aren't. It's how the interpereters read them is usually garbage
>100+ hours to learn that a punch can connect into a 6:00 to 3:00 motion paired with another button
How bad at videogames are you?
>game about martial arts rewards practicing technique
Shocking!
6/10
moron.
Filitred
Are you the same esl who uses this to start threads?
the entire point of the video this slide was made for is "the inputs aren't why fighting games are hard and there's nothing the game can do that will make you good if you aren't willing to work" which makes it pretty funny that some special needs child picked it as his shitpost of choice
Harada just said this exact shit in some IGN interview for Tekken 8. He was saying how making the series more accessible isn't going to just magically make people win. In fact, it's going to be even easier for better players to beat your ass
not having to learn complex moves, not having to pause mid-game to look at a move list and lowering the execution barrier would absolutely make new players more likely to win
the sooner you can get someone actually playing the game rather than having to grind in a training room, the better
No it makes you more predictable.
how? see
scenario A: you have 50 moves but they are all easy to get out
scenario B: you have 50 moves that are all difficult to get out
you still have 50 moves in both of these, but one has a lower execution barrier and is thus more accessible without reducing complexity
Because a simplified moveset removes the variety.
Consider the following
Fireball used to be QCF+Punch
Now it's forward punch, you are losing any and all forward punches you have fewer options, I can approach you directly knowing that my approach will only be met with a forward kick or a fireball, you had 50 options, now you have 40 options.
Tatsu was QCB kick, now it's down kick, I now know that if you opt to not use fireball, you are going to make yourself very vulnerable and full commit to a tatsu instead of a light kick, you had 50 options, now you have 30
Dragon punch was FDDF+P now it's back punch, you will never crush me. You had 50 options, now you have 20.
>Consider the following
>Makes up the worst control scheme known to man when most buttons go unused in fightan games
I see...
Yes simplified controls are the worst.
So why is DNF duel dead
why aren't you fricking homosexuals screaming for simplified controls not playing the games that actually do this shit for you?
I'm arguing against simplified controls bub.
Propose the input for 4 moves
Fireball
Tatsu
Dragon punch
Focus attack
Do that without taking any other inputs, Also consider that simple controls in 6 take away light medium heavy.
thats not how it actually is in reality
you can't have 50 easy to get out moves
you barely have 30 moves, 10 of those are east to get out
new player sees those 30 moves, and uses like 5 total because they are the easiest
gets fricking washed effortlessly because he fights with 5 moves against people who use more moves than him, some of which serve no purpose but to punish certain specific moves
and no, even if your hypothetical scenario of 50 easy to get out moves would exist, its still would take time and practice to figure out which moves out of these 50 are best used for certain scenarios
then what, you going to ask that for moves to be move universal in their application? so now about half of your moves are irrelevant, because each does two things at once, some even 3
then you going to ask for overall reduction of movelist
and at some point you are going to end up with fricking dive kick
And they'll STILL get washed in dive kick
unironically I just prefer Smash
Not really, I'm excited for 6 but the "simple" moveset is going to cause lots of players to overnight SOLVE new players using the simple moveset effectively creating a second ceiling made of concrete
no it wouldn't, because no one has to pause to look at the move list after like 5 hours of play. These are simply not problems that matter to people that have actually put in enough time to even be thinking about beating people that know what they're doing, much less the actual good players. And it makes the intermediate players that they might manage to beat once in a while by getting lucky much less likely to frick up and let them win, which is the only way someone that is still new enough to not even have their entire movelist memorized has even a 1% chance at victory.
Yes it would. You keep talking about pausing the game as if that wouldn't continue to happen.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here
You said simplifying the game would make new players more likely to win because they wouldn't have to stop to look up up movesets and inputs. That simply isn't a factor at any level of play where skill matters already. If you haven't even learned your character's moves you aren't winning vs someone that has, no matter how simple the game is.
And, again, making the game harder to play makes beginners more likely to get lucky against mid level players, because the mid level players are by definition better than them already and will win most of the time, unless they make mistakes and the new players get to take advantage of them, which is less likely to happen the simpler you make the game. That's why people fricking hated DNF Duel.
>You said simplifying the game would make new players more likely to win because they wouldn't have to stop to look up up movesets and inputs
I literally never said this.
>"not having to learn complex moves, not having to pause mid-game to look at a move list and lowering the execution barrier would absolutely make new players more likely to win "
there's pretending to be moronic and then there's this. Try not to choke on your own tongue.
Who are you quoting? I said simplified move sets just make people who don't play more predictable.
follow the post chain anon, you seem confused
So do you.
it's not that complicated, just one quote per post, you can do it, I believe in you
>the sooner you can get someone actually playing the game rather than having to grind in a training room, the better
You morons just don't understand, do you? Look at Age of Empires 2. Game is hard as frick, tutorials teach shit, yet it has numbers so consistent it's obvious fighting games are doing something wrong because other than F2P dogshit, you can't prove there's a fighting game with as many players as AoE2. What are fighting games lacking? Single AND coop modes so you can hop in. I don't expect sf6 to fill that gap (I'd be surprised if it has ANY sort of coop) but if fighting devs don't realize people want to play together and not against them, people will continue to skip fighting games
>fighting game but you play together instead of fighting them
what are you even talking about dude this makes no sense
AoE2 is an exception and not the rule. Look at almost any other RTS and see how high the playercounts are. RA3 has around 300 people playing.
You're kind of right, but you're also missing the point.
What you're basically saying is "fighting games aren't popular because people don't want to play competitively" which is true.
Aoe2 is actually a great example. AoE2 has 21k concurrent player peaks and Strive has 3.8k, a massive difference right?
but Strive's ladder has 46000 people that have played a ranked match in the last week and AoE2 has only 41000 over the entire current season, going by ratingsupdate.info and AoEZone.net respectively.
But that's despite AoE2 offering way more singleplayer and co-op casual modes than Strive which has almost nothing. Singleplayer and co-op casuals just don't go online. No matter what singleplayer stuff you add or how many casual friendly features you come up with, there's just only that many people willing to actually play competitively, and the people that are willing already are, at most you can maybe swing a few percent of casuals that wanted to try but got filtered, but not many. If you're a fighting game dev and trying to increase your pool of active players engaging with the primary form of gameplay, ie fighting each other, there's actually almost nothing you can do but make the best game you can and add as many QoL features like rollback as possible and hope the relatively tiny handful of people that actually want competition decide to play your game instead of someone else's.
And if all you want is sales then gameplay doesn't matter anyway and the most important thing is just having a popular IP.
Ok, so what you're saying is that a fighting game that barely offers any single player content and is brand new (compared to 2019 AoE) tops by a little bit a remake of an old game rich with single player content. That is an embarrassment instead of an accomplishment from Strive (and other fighting games). Old games with new fresh paint like AoE2 are not bought to start the Joan of Arc campaign, they're played to jump right straight into multiplayer. That's where coop saves AoE and fricks fighting games in the long run. Why do you think devs need to keep coming up with new fighting games all the time? They know everybody just stops having "fun" playing ranked. The people you count on AoE stay playing without being competitive, the only reason people play Strive now is to be competitive. The mind set from devs is completely backwards and hurt the games in the long run. Smash is another example of a fighting game with so much coop/vs/single player content that they could have just added more characters until the end of the Switch (they didn't because they're idiots). Again, rich coop content is what is needed in this genre. These dumb ass devs are just obsessed with e-sports, we're doomed
AoE2 was presumably picked because it's the most popular online rts except maybe starcraft 2 which isn't on steam, I wasn't the first person to mention it. It being 20 years old and having no real competition is actually kinda sad.
But yeah, fighting games are about fighting other people. They're an inherently competitive genre. Fighting the AI is fricking boring, without the human element there's no reason to play them at all. That's why the casuals that do buy them, even in the games with a lot of singleplayer stuff like MK just run through the story mode a couple times until they've seen all the cutscenes and then quit. If you start trying to appeal to the people that want nothing but casual content you get farther and farther away from fighting games until you just make something like Streets of Rage or DMC or For Honor or whatever instead.
But the people b***hing about fighting games don't actually want to play those, or they would be and they wouldn't be whining. They want to play fighting games, because they see shit like the Daigo parry or some hype DBFZ clip or whatever, but the stuff that makes fighting games actually good is completely reliant on the direct competition between humans involved.
>we're doomed
No, you're actually pandered to by 90% of the videogame industry and are just crying about the one genre that doesn't. Your entire argument is "fighting games are an inherently niche genre."
Yes, this is true, because fighting games are inherently competitive and designed to be played by one person against another person. That's why the people that like them like them. You could make a different genre of game and it might be more popular, but then it wouldn't be a fighting game any more, and the people that want to play fighting games but don't for whatever reason will just continue to cry about the games that are.
You know people play both rts and fighting game for fun right?
Besides aoe speaks to casual history enjoyers of which their campaigns placates
Who the frick actually takes fighting games story mode super duper seriously? I don't think i ever saw mortal kombat lore threads lul
>Who the frick actually takes fighting games story mode super duper seriously? I don't think i ever saw mortal kombat lore threads lul
A bit brash of me to say. The genre have been focusing more on that aspect so maybe those games i've missed have fleshed out that aspect of them more. I remember those mortal kombat vignettes before 9 and always thinking how lame they were. 3-4 slides after beating single player per character. Peak lame
>every casual focused fighter has done away with every motion on here but quarter circles
>the games sell slightly better but then no one sticks around to play more than the fighters that keep them
just dont play fighting games my guy, stop being filtered
This is terrible b8.
Does anyone have trouble with the motions in this pic?
Plenty of people who've never tried them, yeah.
3 punch/kick presses are annoying to do on pad without a macro setup.
>playing fighting games on pad
Found your problem.
Haven't you heard, pads are actually almost as good as hitboxes now, because stick players developed a massive victim complex over the last 6 months.
I don't give a shit what other people have done.
Pads are literal shit tier for fighting games.
Hence games having built-in configurable macro buttons. Just use them.
I have only been playing fightan for a year or two and I have trouble with DP motions, but that's because almost every character I play doesn't have a DP. I also don't even know what the frick that first one is.
That first one is a super input for a charge character. It combines Back-Forward with Down-Up.
I cannot do L inputs and I don't want to learn them, otherwise I can do everything on there.
onions
You can't top perfection
They have, but it's mostly mechanically so shitters don't notice.
>Why has chess changed so little over hundreds of years?
>fighting games are comparable to chess
Yes.
Also, your anime reaction image tells me everything I need to know about you.
>Chess is a solved game with no variety
>Comparable to fighting games
Pretty accurate i'd say
>Chess is a solved game
Worst b8 in this thread.
Prove me wrong
In some ways yeah, 1vs1, can do casual/competitive matches, reading your opponent's moves ahead is a requirement, one wrong move can cost you a match
Comparable in the sense that they are both baby games compared to puyo puyo tetris
my man
Classic Fighting games is literally just real time chess, you have x possible moves in any situation as does your opponent you need to figure out your way to a win.
The genre is already perfect
If you want top tier multiplayer combat between two human beings you play a fighting game
It's crazy how much foresight capcom had when designing fighting games with street fighter
They have though? Look at the disparity between something like SF and Blazblue, or the existence of tag based games etc.
The level of divergence between FGs is no different than what you'd see with mobas, FPS or RPGs
>Why have fighting games changed so little over the last 30 years?
SF2 come out and revolutionizes fighting games, tons of fighting games come out in the 90's and 00's with all new and difference mechanics, barely any of them match the standard SF2 brought to the table.
That's it.
Why did you add this pic?
Because that's a Cammy doll in all but name for lawsuit reasons.
The future was beatemups
Play final fight LNS
Capcom accidentally almost perfected the formula with SF2. And yes, it was an accident, they didn't really know what they were doing. Even combos were a bug that they left in. In any case, SF2's general design was perfect. After that, only things left to do were incremental graphics upgrades and mechanics polish.
Did shooters change from mouse and keyboard oh wait they got auto aim on controllers lmfao
>turn into mass BR looty shooters
>or quasi-moba hero shooters
The absolute state of shooters
How come it's only Black folk that play fighting games?
same reason only whites play FPS
Because actually fighting IRL gets them jail time
Not anymore, it’s racist for the popo to arrest a black for anything.
lower financial barrier to entry in arcades and infinite replay value with siblings so better value if you can only afford a few console games. same goes for latin america
Arcades. People rarely deviate from whatever genres they were playing in their youth.
>big fighting game titles coasting on their popularity
>meanwhile actually good fighting games changing, evolving, and growing in the background
>meanwhile actually good fighting games changing, evolving, and growing in the background
name 5
ironic that you posted a franchise that regressed, especially with its most recent installment
Pic unrelated
I have the same question for turn based JRPGs
Takes no effort to make
>Takes no effort to play so Japanese salarymen who are exhausted from sitting in an office all day can mindlessly click "attack" and occasionally "heal" to beat the game
It's fun
Very few action games have good character/party building and of those that do even fewer have good party AI
Why is Ganker so terrible at games?
Some homosexuals (like this cuck
) are terrible at the game of life so they want others to feel terrible as well, I guess.
People are drawn to this board due to it's unique nature of being anonymous. I.E. people who aren't proud of themselves come here, If people here were good at games they'd be in communities where they could brag about that.
Because about 85% of Ganker are LARPers who pretend that they know what they are talking about.
Because traditional fightan gays (Street shitters)
are contempt just memorizing blockstrings instead of actually playing a game, thus they ironically can't adapt to any changes to the format, despite Strikers and Tags being superior
based, frick fighting games, Smash is unironically superior to all of them due to how easy it is to pick up but how hard it is to truly master
shame Ultimate doesn't have rollback though
We just going to throw the spacing, positioning, and timing aspect of fighting games out the window? We just going to pretend that there isn't a mental component involved to a guy getting tilted to his opponent always waking up DP until the one moment it counts? We going to throw out character specific interactions? Damn.
>this diagram
claiming that inputs/combos are the skill ceiling just shows that you really never learned to play and got filtered at the door
>casual normalgays cry about fighting games being hard
>fighting games add shitty baby mode inputs, auto combos, and normals with moronproof hitboxes so you don't have to spend time practicing
>said games all die within few months
>meanwhile fighting games who decide to not cater to people who don't play
>still have constant playerbase and active online, still takes less than a minute find someone to play with
just another proof that fighting games don't need to change a thing about them
>Posts Strive
>The game that literally simplified old GG mechanics
seethe
still no baby mode inputs
Strive did simplify, but it also actually did act as a place for a lot of people who might have only been spectators in the past to get into fighting games. Older GG games could get a lot of talk or admiration about them, but not so many people actually playing, while Strive managed to be a game a wider audience actually wanted to play. Personally I'm not playing Strive right now because it gets pretty boring, and maybe those people who got into fighting games with Strive will eventually find it boring too, but I think it's the rare instance of appealing to people who don't play actually working, because Strive pulled in a lot of new players not just for the series, but for the genre, and while I personally would have rathered Rev 3 or something like it, I don't think a game that kept in the same vein as Xrd could have done that.
This. If the game is fun, people will step up to learn it. Listening to casuals doesn't serve anybody and only brings down the quality of those games.
I do however fighting games could be more transparant about stuff like frame data.
>more transparent about stuff
This, communication is key. The fact that so many casuls get tripped up by special inputs is bad enough, when they already make these motions all the time in other vidya without even noticing it. But on the subject of specials, the critical concept of special cancelling is completely lost on the uninitiated. They'll try to do some combo in the tutorial and wait for the whole move to play out instead of cancelling it into a special early like you're supposed to. There's a lot of core concepts like that which have been integral aspects of the genre for decades, and yet they get glossed over while leaving new players in the dark.
KOF is another good example of this, so many new players were seething when XV came out because they didn't know about input shortcuts for supers, or hold buffering.
Because autists do not respond to change very well and you need to be on the spectrum to enjoy fighting games.
I guess you are an autist as well since you enjoy breathing and shitposting for (you)s from strangers 🙂
not enough to play a game that only offers 25 minutes of content tops for more than 500 hoursd
>Ganker
>content
Your life has no real content yet you're still breathing 🙂
You are comparing my sad shitty boring existence with nothing interesting going on to fighting games?
I think I am a bit more alive than that garbage lmao
Black person you can't do shitposting on Ganker everyday and still believe you are alive LMAO. I guess morons have their own moronic level of cope.
So how do you cope with fighting games being dead?
I need to learn from the experts
But they are not dead in your head though? You still mention and whine about them like a lovesick girl. Which one hurt you in the past huh?
MvC2 hurt me by being the peak
and every single game before or after being irrelevant
Now, expert coper
are you gonna teach me your ways or are you gonna pussy out?
>it's a capeshit subhuman
But of course. It checks out.
>He pussied out
Whats the matter? Your god Justin
Wong told you to not play that one?
Pussied out on what? Giving you a rope to have a nice day? And who is Justin? Your mutt eceleb savior?
except autists usually play a shit ton of different genres meanwhile normies fall into the same QTE moviegame simulator like TLoU and Elden Ring
If anything autists enjoy mechanical intensive genres because they see quality beyond stupid stories, meanwhile normies fall for the same shitty stories and eat anything with music set into a basic modal emotional chord music
>Elden Ring
>qte movie game
Can you guys at least look at game play before saying the dumbest shit?
anon its popular that means its bad, you are on Ganker remember?
Elden Ring is basically a movie game marketed as a hardcore game, it has all the garbage from simplified mechanics for mass consumerism, mastering your own movesets doesn't take more than 20 minutes and everything else is just filler so you keep playing
Where's the QTEs? Also you didn't explain in anyway how it is a movie game.
okay moron
The dumb shit you read on this site sometimes makes me want to claw my eyes out in frustration because I can't do it to you.
>mastering your own movesets doesn't take more than 20 minutes
That means it's a good game, intuitive, simple and really popular. Watch and learn fighting games.
You just haven't played the 3D ones.
Full 3D games like Bushido Blade and Power Stone never caught on. Even games with 3d movement in the arena like Tobal 1 and 2 unfortunately fizzled.
doing shit like this will always be fricking impossible for me
my brain just outright refuses to understand it, it's like rubbing your head and patting your stomach and then swapping, to me at least. the first 3 parts are easy, but it's that little switch that fricks me every single time
...Bro its literally just down and move your finger or hand to the right and then back, what?
idk man, like it's because it doesn't follow the flow of the first 3 inputs. if it was a diagonal up-right I could make sense of it since it's going in a circular pattern, but the down-right out of nowhere just fricks my head-mind connection
having to do that for a ton of other moves, remembering them all and then having to do it all on the fly is like a nightmare
do sticks make this kinda stuff easier?
can you not just go back and forth at the bottom of the pad? Because that's all it is. You start in the middle, then go right, then go left
Is this KOF? You're brand new to inputs and you're playing KOF?
read it again
quarter circle to one direction, then half circle to the opposite direction. pull it off once and it'll start clicking. the motion is 100x simpler than the imagery describing it
Do you have to wear a helmet when you go outside? Just run your thumb over the dpad from down, to forward, and then back. It's not rocket surgery mate... jesus fricking christ.
what helps me is imagining real motion
imagine yourself irl doing uppercut followed by duck evade and backstep
if you were a game character, thats how you would do that
displays like that suck because it compartmentalizes each point on the stick as a discrete input rather than turning it into one fluid motion like it's supposed to be. that was my main issue when i first started playing. i've always found pic related to be more helpful when learning.
this is helpful too, thanks Anon. might sound moronic but I guess I've gone beyond that point already, but that looks a lot easier on an analog stick than it would be on a d-pad; do most fighting games allow you to use an analog stick for inputs, including old ones like SF2?
NTA but old school games were built for analog joysticks in the arcades.
Arcade joysticks aren't analog, they're digital. Effectively its just a d-pad but you tilt the lever to hit directions instead just directedly pressing a direction down.
For the older arcade sticks There are individual mechanical switches triggered in the direction the stick goes. An arcade stick is like 4-8 different ON/OFF switches, not a single variable input.
There were analog arcade sticks for a fair few games as well. However, most fighting game arcade cabinets have always used few miniswitches, like how
mentions. If you open up an arcade stick today, they still use these miniswitches, each of them corresponding to a different direction.
In KOF you can get away with the first quarter circle forward by doing the motion into your command normal and then half-circle back into your super buttons and holding the buttons for the guaranteed frame 1 activation.
The first one is called buffered input and the second one is called button hold trick (which is another kind of buffer input).
If it ain't broke don't fix it
I have problems opening people up.
I have problems opening up to people.
Lobby when?
You're probably flowcharting too hard. If they've figured out what you're doing, just do the opposite. If they know when you're gonna overhead, hit them low or throw instead
Or just play slower and shittier. Leave some gaps in your blockstrings so they think they can punish it and fish for a counter hit
Yeah me too
>fighting games are too hard and require too much effort
>at the same time fighting games are for Black folk
never change Ganker
Almost as bad as those homosexuals that write entire paragraphs in Ganker defending fightans
But are top afraid to post their rank
Because autism.
Just think about it. It's like pottery.
>*blocks you're path*
haahahahaha i remember seeing this input a long time ago. crazy
So this is the thread where KoF chads show off their actually difficult inputs compared to street babies?
No, this is the thread the SF chads laugh at the chink and Hispanic failed game that is KoF, with it's bad graphics and dumbed down gameplay
Yeah I saw you got a new troony character
You really showed us
>t-t-t-trann-
Done? Done.
Thats a fun way to cope
Might try it out if we ever get something as shameful as that
Go back to your third world garbage failed game, SF chads will be eating good
mexiHispanic here.
SF is more prevalent than KOF these days. I think it looks like shit, SFV played like garbage and the animations look like playdoh. SFVI looks even worse. Don't have time to grind tekken anymore but the community is awesome and the game is way better.
They were essentially on pause for the majority of the 2000s and the first half of the 2010s was playing catch up with nostalgia bait releases that didn't innovate.
I genuinely don't understand how people act like pressing down and then forward is some mystical thing which is impossible to do.
It's not, but then they go into a real match and can't get it because they're mashing so the game is now bullshit with a barrier of execution in motions. It's nothing that hasn't been discussed before, losing in a 1v1 fighting game feels way worse as you have no outside factors to blame so naturally people's egos feel more threatened.
Goes for both side
Genuine morons cant do a Z motion
Then hardstuck silvers inflated their egos because they are playing the easiest series in the genre. Street Fighter
>Genuine morons cant do a Z motion
Rude, I only found out I was officially autistic at 30 years old.
>Why have fighting games changed so little over the last 30 years?
The same shit can be said about FPS games. The core game is the same and cant be really changed but the devs experiment with everything around it. In the end of the day if you dont enjoy the core gameplay then fighting games or fps are not for you
Fightan Games don't evolve because the core audience refuses to adapt. They LIKE slurping up the game garbage gameplay that has not changed in 30 years.
Developers have also been unable to sell the genre to non-core audience. Which means the genre stays unchanging. This is both a blessing and a curse.
Other genres with the same problem: Beat 'em Ups, Shoot 'em Ups(both vertical and horizontal), MMOs. To a much lesser degree, RPGs.
homie, they've been casualized in a million ways since sfiv. From SFIV shortcuts, 1 button specials like smash all the way to literally turning them into a 1 button press like strive.
They were supposed to get more complex and add more mechanics.
There's a reason why MK and Tekken remain as the best selling fighting games, they've refused to dumb down the core gameplay.
(you)
Black person
kys
I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about input complexity, but doing something more creative with the basic premise of "two (or maybe more) players fight each other" than what amounts to a copy of Street Fighter 2.
there's a shitload of games about fighting that aren't "fighting games" already. If they didn't want to play games that are basically highly evolved SF2 they wouldn't be crying about getting filtered by them.
>They LIKE slurping up the game garbage gameplay that has not changed in 30 years.
>SFV plays the same as SF2
You don't play these games at all.
because every time someone tries to innovate in any way shape or form, purists declare it isn't a fighting game. it's like if FPSgays said that any game that required you to aim on the vertical axis wasn't an FPS game, because it wasn't a clone of Doom mechanically.
I might advocate for simple controls in so far as the games preferred combos not wanting arbitrarily near frame perfection, but that's never really what's being asked for as much as "fireball hard"
Look up a Sagat combo in SF2 versus a Sagat combo in SF4 versus a Sagat combo in SF5. They're quite different from where they started even on the most basic level. Throw in the large amount of mechanics and changes in neutral due to screen space from going from 4:3 to 16:9 and you have alot of evolution in just 1 series.
Paypig genre that makes you pay for frame data, pay for DLC "characters" that have reused animations, completely soulless corporate UI and design, streamer and e-celeb obsessed sensitive fanbase etc etc
-fighting games exploded at sf2
-this created many sf2 clones
-some found a gimmick that filled a niche
-after many versions of sf2, capcom tried to reboot sf2 with alpha/ex/sf3 and failed miserably
-many years go by and only the niche games thrived
-sf4 happens and explodes in popularity thanks to sf2 nostalgia, however making the game easier to play did irreversible harm to the entire genre
we're still stuck in the sf4 clones saga and every single fighting game series is worse off now
They have changed a shit-ton.
They don't make any Street fighter 2 style fighting games anymore. They are almost a completely different genre of video game.
They have. Most people don't play them so they don't notice, they like the romance of being good at fighting games but don't like the game play itself. At the very least they've changed as much as shooters
There's much more variety in shooters than there is in fighting games.
Because the core fundamentals that make these games good are too intertwined within the genre. Devs have tried doing weird and strange things but it never catches on. Fighting games are about incremental change to the mechanics or revamping characters in style and ability. That being said allot of video game genres have stayed virtually the same. But people levy this criticism to fighting games more because of how static the playgrounds of these games are. We have crazy open world games while fighting games are still 2 dudes on a small stage. But hey SF6 is trying to change that so maybe you should support them.
What's the best fightan to get into fightans?
The one that looks cool to you
Depends on what kind of fightan you want to get into. Street Fighter is great for ground fundamentals
All that really matters is that it interests you and that you can find people at your skill level in it. The latter part is harder to manage, but if you play something when it's new or if it's just really popular and has a big playerbase it's not an issue usually.
>best fightan to get into fightans
if you don't have friends and are just gonna play with other morons in random online matchmaking, you need to pick one of the highest playercount ones like Strive (best), SF5 or SF6, MK11, Tekken 7-8
No he doesn't, at least if he doesn't find those games fun. There's plenty of games with playable online that aren't in the top tier of player numbers with people in low-mid ranks. Finding a game you enjoy should be the first step, otherwise learning the systems and a character will be a chore.
no, those smaller games have enough population for a mid level player maybe but you really are not gonna get anywhere as a brand new player bashing your head into ranked without some actual irl friends to learn with
Street figher 5 is the best one for fundamentals. If you want to attain fg fundamental wisdom though? Sf2
>why has chess changed so little over the last 1300 years
because it works
>works
>%99 of the games don't have functional online
>pawn is so slow that they had to patch in a rule to make it faster
>and then they had to patch in another rule to nerf the faster movement
Threw up a little in my mouth
The formual was perfected with Third Strike. Its commercial failure was because of the broaerd trend of arcades going away, rather than anything to do with the game. Everything since has been trying to fix problems that don't exist, or redesign mechanics that were perfected 20 years ago.
*Vampire Savior
Fixed that for you.
3 failed on home console too, anon
3 was trapped on a dead console for too long. By the time PS2/Xbox received ports, the ship had sailed. Fighting games should never be platform exclusive, but particularly being Sega platform exclusive is a death sentence.
shitty bait, not even worth a (You)
Yes I'm sure the roster had nothing to do with sf3's continual failure at all
>third strike is perfect
>the game with a clearly superior character
>where you get meter on whiff
Nope. Only clearly superior if you're very shitty and dumb, or a very good consistent top 8 player. A decent Sean/Twelve/Remy will shit on a slightly below average Chun every time.
Besides the point anyhow, since we're talking about core design and mechanics.
What's wrong with getting meter on whiff exactly? It's a further risk reward scenario, and adds more depth.
post your fightcade id
What the frick is that?
lol, let me just share my username for a service that has the most toxic community going.. where people I know have been doxxed and harrassed irl.. no thanks
that's what i thought D rank
>acting like ranks on fricking FIGHTCADE matter
Your "top player" in any given channel is going to have a wifi indicator. You're a fricking joke.
fightcade let's you filter high ping and wi-fi matches and everyone with half a brain has both of these options enabled
sure thing buddy
I've travelled to Japan to play the game. I have nothing to prove to you.
** Should have described more adptly - if you're letting your opponent put placement moves on screen, and you're not whiff punishing them, or stealing space; yes, they should get meter because you're not posing a threat to them, so you're probably bad at the game.
>expecting me to reply to a moron that says "what's wrong with getting meter on whiff"
How have they changed any less than, say, 2D platformers? And that's exclusively looking at 2D stuff, not even factoring in 3D fighting games. The better question is why do people judge fighting games under a harsher lens when copying other games as a genre mold is what every game does? Why is this the go-to excuse for scrubs?
And you have a billion different Smash Bros. clones now. What's the real question? Why does SF and its contemporaries still exist? To make you mad, there.
Seeing in real time the issues with the homosexual gay community
Why do fighting games make you feel so inadequate, anon? Is it because you are?
wut
you're blind if you don't think the fgc has major issues
OK, you're right about that. "homosexual gay community" makes it sound like you're insulting the games, though.
The games and community are fricking horrendous
The games are great, you're just bad. The community is awful though. Did you know "casuals" has a double-entendre meaning of "casual sex" usually guy-on-guy, and there are crazy gamer grrl thots who go because they're into that shit? The hotels at any given tournament are fricking wild. I almost fisted a guy due to peer pressure and threats of violence. But then I didn't. But yeah, all this queer and troony affirmation in FGC isn't new or some kind of advent. It's been building up for a long time now.
>the games are great
They really aren't, play more and go deeper you'll realise how fricking atrocious they are.
The fact I used to play and compete will make you seethe though because you believe the fgc lies
>durr I'm actually an expert because I have no life and did a deep dive into the genre and I sucked at everything so it's all bad hurr
Shut the frick up, scrub, no one cares about your opinion.
give us a name homosexual, i wanna laugh
Clayton Chapman
I've played the genre my whole life and still enjoy them a lot. I know I'm not at a tournament level, doesn't mean I don't "get" the games enough to hate them or whatever.
>they're bad because.... they just are! trust me im like really good at them i promise
Says the Ganker poster
Play old and/or poverty games.
You can play your modern game(s) of choice too, but playing older and weirder games outside of your comfort zone you can become a better player with a greater appreciation for the genre.
If you already play stuff on Fightcade like 3S or KOF98 or something and want to stay there, pick a game you've never played. Fightcade has HttF, Dan-Ku-Ga, SamSho II, Cyberbots, Blitzkampf, Rumble Fish 2, etc. If you want to branch outside of Fightcade there's cheap/free indie projects to try like Kyanta 2, Fight of Steel, BftG, TFH, Among Us Arena (seriously the recent updates changed this from meme fangame to legit and it has online built-in), etc.
Learn some new shit. It's fun.
>3s poser doesn't even play 3s.
Like pottery.
Thanks for confirming the seething, just as I predicted
>I WANT SIMPLE INPUTS
>Get simple inputs
>Don't play the game
>I WANT SIMPLE INPUTS
>Get simple inputs
>Nobody else plays the game with me
>Nobody wants to play a trash game
Well that's a (you) problem
>I WANT SIMPLE INPUTS
>Get simple inputs
>Rito buys the company making the game and the project gets dropped
I ain't going to read the whole thread. But I assume that it's just:
>complaining about motion inputs
>complaining about combos
>complaining about "tryhards"
>game warring
>random analogies
Honestly, I wish they'd changed far less.
Ever since GGX started making characters pre-determined functions instead of characters, it's been pretty shit.
Are you saying you think GG played better in GG1 than it ever did afterwards?
Why did they deviate from street figher 1 Gankerros...
Zoomers just can't handle classics like that
XD
We have to go back.
https://wiki.gbl.gg/w/Street_Fighter_1_MR
Why is it in mugen? Is it because it's impossible to get hold of otherwise? Also come to think of it i don't think i ever watched gameplay of sf1 apart from avgn's vid on it so idk how many legacy characters stay true to how they were in sf1
If it's a copy of sf1 one to one it's impressive still
>If it's a copy of sf1 one to one it's impressive still
It uses the official sprites and music but it isn't 1:1. It tries to be a more traditional game by making each character from the game playable and making Ryu & Ken not clones of each other, on top of adding FF1 Cody as a guest. I think it captures the spirit of SF1 while making it more than shoto mirrors. It's definitely a weird game though, with throws not being a universal tool meaning some characters have zero mix and need to chip you out (but they can due to looping pressure being common) while others get proper high/low, Strike/throw, and/or left/right mix.
Lmfao sounds like a funny jank fest. Cool effort they put into it
>throws not being universal
Hahahahahahaha that sounds bizarre
>left/right mix.
What does this mean? I don't think i've ever heard of this phrase. I think of teleporting around with instant recovery but i know sf1 doesn't have that
he is talking about crossups
Yeah alright figured. That checks out then. Thanks anon
play Destrega.
Because SF2 is the formula that stands the test of time. All you can do from there is add onto system mechanics.
Unfortunately, devs listened to a very vocal minority within the FGC and spent the past decade stripping down their games until both casuals and core players were left incredibly unsatisfied.
To me motion inputs are all about muscle memory
Thats true for combos and some punishes. Situatuional awareness and muscle memory makes up 90% of fightan skill
Ryu and ken are the only playable chara in SF1. and their exactly the same. More so even than they in SF2 WW
>Ryu and ken are the only playable chara in SF1. and their exactly the same. More so even than they in SF2 WW
Huh... cool
>More so even than they in SF2 WW
Wait what do you mean by that? How can they be more true to themselves than the game making the genre popular?
In world warrior ryu has a frame during his dizzy anime where he takes double damage.
Ken has his signature back throw, where he grabs you and you both start rolling on the ground.
Shit i read your post wrong. Yeah yeah got it. Thanks anon
Imagine thinking fighting games owe you something because you're too incompetent to press buttons in a certain way
Which other songs are better on console?
The correct answer is the 3DO renditions
This one added ponies.
Revolutionary
It tried to at first but then it legally had to remove them abs rebrand, and it's much better for it. Excited for Texas.
fun game
actually has a co-op mode and a fancy in depth single player and no one plays it anyway
careful no, you wouldn't wanna get banned for posting ponies.
it's okay, that's a goat and a bear, not a pony, though I understand how how that could be confusing since they're all animals
>story mode update never
>instead we got bull equivalent of Big Mac
>Why have fighting games changed so little over the last 30 years?
30 year old genre, b***hmade fools still cryin' about SRK inputs. gitgud.