Why is LoL more popular than Dota 2? Posted on May 21, 2023 by Anonymous Why is LoL more popular than Dota 2?
Characters are more appealing
It has TV shows and shit
Why would a competitive game do better because it's easier?
Easier -> More Accessible -> Bigger Playerbase.
LoL is a casual game, everyone other than pro league players hate the pro league because Riot uses it to balance the game rather than normal play, obviously balancing the game like every lobby is 5v5 people all communicating on discord will lead to terrible balance, which League has in overwhelming amounts.
starting your post with an acronym that nobody understands unless you have 5 years of prior reddit experience
Or 10 seconds of google experience
majority of gamers who play moba for the first time are retards.
LoL has much lesser retard filters than Dota 2.
easier game > more players > bigger base to pull views from.
have you considered lurking for 10 years before posting? fucking newfag
>why would you unlock every hero?
My favorite part of this in hindsight is how gamepass now literally does this and all the f2p grinders and paypigs lost their shit how a new player could instantly get them all
To be fair, champions in LoL are interchangable.
Some are straight up better versions of other already existing champions. As a rule of thumb, the more expensive they are the better.
New ones are always OP to incite people to buy them. Which means paypigs and whales are always ahead of you. Balance patches are dreaded because they may render your carefully acquired roster useless in an instant.
youre retarded and it shows you dont play league
new champs are pricey but that doesnt mean they are good
rell was most expensive champion at one point and was always trash and couldnt do shit
meanwhile yi remains the easiest most broken champ for the lowest price
meta changes from patch to patch annie is basically a monster now and she is cheap as fuck too
price means nothing, new champions suck ass and are all terrible , ksante was dead on arrival too
>2012 League western player
>Why would a competitive game do better because it's easier?
It's more addicting and the "popularity" argument is way overboard if you factor in the bot accounts.
Do this experiment: install league of legends and go on the "INTRO" matches, after you finished the tutorial, it's where all the bots are leveling the accounts from level 1 to 30.
That's the entire deciding factor there, Dota 2 needs you to play for 100 hours and register a smartphone in order to play, there is no such thing on league of legends you just need a level 30 account.
What do the hackers/scriptkiddies do ( and if you think league of legends don't have scripts just type "script league of legends" on youtube - all of them work and none are detectable ), they buy a new account at level 30 because they cost pennies and go straight to ranked.
Just like World of Wacraft, Final Fantasy XIV and several other games, League of Legends would be dead by now if it weren't for the bots falsifying the amount of new players getting into the game.
you just answered your own question gay
Why do you think Dota ever gained popularity in the first place? It's significantly easier to play compared to the the actual rts game it is from and LoL is even easier than that.
Because a difficult game like StarCraft is too difficult and zoomers don't like that.
I wouldn't consider dota more or less difficult than lol. I have 2k+ hours in both.
No idea how dota2 is now, but it had really weird mechanics that felt like some meme mod and not like a full fledged game (no wonder since it came from wc3 mod). For example the wc3 turn rates, deny on creeps, weird tower Aggro schenenigans and shit like eating a tree to heal.
Meanwhile lol even in the old gimp state was a standalone fleshed out game with its proper game mechanics. and people would prefer a complete game.
Gameplay wise dota had a lot of strategic thinking and very long games, while lol had a lot of micro and personal outplay.
How the fuck is that even a question
Google what "lowest common denominator" means
The "its easier" argument is dumb, yes league if easier than dota but its still a moba which are really hard to get into, especially league for completly new players is hell. There is so much shit to learn to get good and the overall experience is horrible. My point is the players who prefer league over dota dont do so because its easier but because of something else. Its like saying CK3 is easier than HOI4 therefor it has to be popular, which isnt true. Same genre, different game but both require some form of autism to even begin to start.
>spent all that time to try to deflect a concept so basic
I don't know why you're so pissed that the game is easier. It's one of hte main advantages league has over dota.
Im not pissed, im just saying its not the reason its more popular.
and yet you don't even try to come up with a convincing argument why it wouldn't be a factor. you're just projecting your disatisfaction that it's easier. you're not fooling anyone.
League is popular because its easy, it maybe didnt get popular because of that, but it has remained so because it perfectly strikes the balance between competitive and casual. Dota 2 remains popular because its the more competitive and balanced moba with better game design (which results in it being a hard game), but the audience for that is just smaller than the audience who wants something right in the middle
if you don't like the answer don't ask the question
zoomers don't remember that the main selling point of LoL on it's release was simplification of icefrog's dota, this is literally why everyone started playing it. and yes, easier the game - more people play it.
mmo was an obscure niche genre for autistic cave dwellers before wow came and SIMPLIFIED it. CCG was an obscure niche genre for autistic cave dwellers before heartstone came and SIMPLIFIED it. moba was an obscure niche internet cafe funtime untill lol came and SIMPLIFIED it. nobody plays quake and arena shooters because there are cs and cod. fighting games are one of the most complex game genres existing and one of the least popular. if you argue this you are a retard.
>mmo was an obscure niche genre for autistic cave dwellers before wow came and SIMPLIFIED it
PSO1 simplified it first but it didn't quite have the winning design. So it's clearly more than just "dumbed down = more successful" even if that's part of it.
>fighting games are one of the most complex game genres existing and one of the least popular.
Nah, they're in a weird middle ground between mainstream and niche. Guilty Gear is "niche" but not really. Street Fighter embed itself deep into surface level nerd culture. That is not "underground" imo
I do think streamlining a genre is part of it, but I don't believe for a second that's all there is.
You don't understand the "it's easier" argument. Yes, both games have a barrier of entry, which consists of learning lane mechanics and all the characters and how to fight in the game. But league has simplified lane mechanics and charactera that are (within a role) more similar compared to each other.
But beyond that point, league doesn't have that much more to go on, meanwhile you only really start learning how complex dota is once you have mastered all of the fundamentals and can no longer win relying purely on good, basic play. The vision game alone is an abyss. Playing losing games is an art unto itself.
League barely even has those features at all.
This is only relevant in competitive, assuming your statement is true. The discussion is not locked to "competitive sensibilities" so who cares.
>This is only relevant in competitive
No, because the average skill level of the playerbase is high enough that the deeper concepts matter. Playing the vision game matters, farming patterns and choosing what to fight for matters. And on average you find you find yourself in a losing gane half the time.
All of the deeper concepts natter eveb at lower skill. Unless you're 2k mmr where you just dunk on everyone by winning mid.
What these anons replying fail to understand is that league is not only more popular than DOTA 2, it’s in a different stratosphere. League is the most popular game in the WORLD.
There a numerous reasons for this, but it being easier is far from the #1. MOBAS are inherently ridiculously complex and league is not the exception.
dota has a tv show though
If someone plays league in EU they have people speaking broken english in chat.
If someone plays Dota in EU they have nobody speaking english in chat at all.
LoL has more soul(to a normie), see Arcane.
In NA I assume both are filled with Poorfag Latintards.
the former is a disneyfication/mcdonalds of the latter
LeL came first and it was easier
This. Hots was the hardest to play so it died first.
the only hard heros in HotS are Abathur Cho'Gall and TLV
More waifubait and you have to buy the heroes for either in game currency or real money so the paypigs will have a field day. It's also much shorter and has a surrender feature which makes it easier to play casually.
What? Dota 2 still has no surrender feature? If you get in a lobby with 4 russians you have to suffer for 30 minutes? Jeez, Dota 2 needs to get with the time.
Dota does have a surrender feature. It's even more fun.
It's called buying all the wards and smokes and putting them in stash, snitching to the enemy team when there's rosh/wards/smokes, and tossing your allies to the enemy team to die.
fucking kek feeding in enemy fountain too
The best hero to do it on is Earth Spirit because not even the "disable help" button can save them from the vector targeted kick
>tossing your allies to the enemy team to die.
noobs dont even know about disabling ff
it does if you are a 5 stack, other than that no
How are you suppose to find 4 other people to play dota with?
The fuck kind of dumb example is that? How would you win vote for surrender against 4 people you brainless moron?
>you have to buy in game currency or real money so paypigs will have a field day
Out of all the real reasons or reasons people make up to shit on league this is by far the most retarded
absolutely NO ONE is buying heroes with $.
despite people wishing you could pay a 20$ upfront and unlock every current and future character like smite does.
If you're new to the game and have a gorillion heroes to unlock you might. Also remember when runes cost money? Literally pay 2 win back in those days.
You could only buy runes with IP, but the system used to make them work forced people to have 10 pages and those were the ones people could buy with RP. Not necessary, but it saved a lot of time.
Them hiring millenials managed to kill Riot in 2 years
only good post in this shit thread
everyone's always trying to complicate shit
Valve destroyed everything good in DotA's design, + they don't market the game at all.
LoL had sexier characters, DotA2 is more SJW friendly designs.
>DotA2 is more SJW friendly designs
Last I checked, LoL is more pozzed.
How? LoL has tons of sexually suggestive skins.
From the early 2010s, retard
>DotA2 is more SJW friendly designs
>Removes skeletons because bones bad
>Adds a fat woman to the game
skeletons because bones bad
you live in Ireland?
damn, fat women look like THAT?
if skele king was removed because "bones bad" then why was clinkz left in the game?
it was the blizz lawsuit
Don't forget about Pugna, everyone forgets about Pugna.
On that note, e-boi Pugna is the only way to save Dota 2 and you cannot change my mind.
It was released 2 years before DOTA2.
Casual fast fun easier version of DotA with easy to setup and play matchmaking, no hamachi and garena torture.
The coca cola advertising model, where they pumped almost all of their profits into ads and was the first thing you see when you google LOL.
Investment money arrived like hundreds of millions from tencent and others before 2012 was over.
Real high quality waifus and bait for thirsty nerds like prime of every stereotype. (find release versions not tumblerized hammer uglified ones )Katarina, Fiora, Nami, janna, Sona, Lux, LuLu, Akali, Irelia, Kayle, Elise etc.
Every type you can imagine they had it covered with a female sexy champion.
league has my wife taliyah
Dota waited too long to release.
LoL spends a lot of money in marketing and appeals more to Koreans.
better visual clarity, easier mechanics, generally better looking, more casual community is inviting to new players (unless you play ranked)
it's like asking why fortnite is more popular than pubg, lol is also appealing to kids and women, not just autistic virgins
before people say LOL is easier league has harder micro since you can die in 1 combo but everything else goes to dota but league is just more accessible to play you can jump in and have fun right away but with dota 2 it takes at least 500 hours to understand the basics
>League harder micro
Are you fucking delusional lmao
whenever they do these comparisons it's always something really dishonest like they compare drow to riven or irelia
league players literally get filtered by courier controls
Dota has the hardest heroes. but it also has the easiest.
I wanted to like dota and even put a good amount of hours into it (pretty sure around a 1k). But I just can't into turn rate. Shit pisses me off. I like how much more reactive and snappier the gameplay on lol is.
However I do like how much more customizable dota is with things like map skins and announcer voices. Wish lol had that. And that game mode where you pick different abilities for heroes is kino.
>I like how much more reactive and snappier the gameplay on lol is.
You didn't play the game.
You cannot compare the reaction time of constantly using items and dagger to LoL's flash, you are probably shit at both.
Having to use items wasn't what bothered me about dota. As I said it was the movement and turn rate but go off you fanboying gay. I was mediocre at dota but I was actually good at lol. I played dota every once in a while as a decompressing game and most of the time it was that ability pick game mode.
Aww look, its two girls with their gay friends and a pet croc.
You're asking a bunch of people who never clear Silver ELO in either game, Ganker does not have the know how to understand the question
I'm a normal only fag and even though I was definitely a silver or w/e they have rank in dota, my mmr in lol puts me against GM, master players with the odd challenger every blue moon in my normal games so I resent that remark.
Yeah and my Silver friends play against Diamonds and win in normals. Norms are not taken seriously, and it's MMR is fucked. You can reach Challenger but if you have been playing norms since you hit level 30, then you still at the same MMR there.
Not gonna act like I know how the mmr system works but my friends hated playing with me because they were all gold at most and when we queued up together they'd start freaking out about playing against diamonds. I had a really high win rate in normals because since that's all I played I tryharded there. I never touched ranked because I knew it would consume my life. I'd end up like a broke Tyler1.
Technically I lied. I DID play ranked but it wasn't on my account. My girlfriend wanted those seasonal ranked skins so I'd get her to gold from whatever rank she put herself in over a weekend. I got to play in iron which I don't think many players can say they have.
bro gm and below are low elo now, nobody should type in the thread then.
Where is artifact anon?
He dropped by the other day. Apparently he got a job. Good for him
Aint Dota 2 just stolen Warcraft 3 assets. While lol is somewhat original.
LoL was spearheaded by one of the guys that worked on the Warcraft 3 mod, you fucking retard.
Guinsoo designed most of LoL starter pack champions. It was blatant DotA ripoff.
They garden gnomeed him after but he was used as an excuse so they can say
>from the makers of DotA
And they stolen the website.
Later on game diverged more an more because the investors requested it for copyright reasoning.
Anyone who says Dota 2 is superior is very underage. LoL started decent and got worse, Dota 2 started bad and stayed the same. Now both are cancer, but LoL had a period, a very long time ago, where it was decent.
Ganker has always preferred dots 2 over LoL especially ten years ago. I remember the threads back in those days.
Please don't parrot wrong opinions with Hachikuji's image.
No it isn't, DOTA is #2 on steam
If you actually use Steam Charts to compare those 2, you are a geniune idiot.
league has more active players than every single steam game combined that counts dota2
Appeals to chinese and korean audiences
And the fact that Dota was too complex to get into in 2013, and has only gotten more complex since.
t. Dota player
League is still pretty cool though.
I've sunk thousands of hours into both and while I'm not a pro at either or anything I can still offer a laymen's perspective
a) DOTA is the better game, League is the better product
b) League is more accessible and more straightforward. It has well-defined positions (top, mid, adc ect) for you and your teammates to play as opposed to DOTA's 1-5 system, which isn't difficult to figure out but it is slightly less streamlined than League's positions
c) MOBAs are an inherently frustrating genre, but the reasons League is frustrating are turned up in DOTA. That isn't to say its bad, but somebody going from League to DOTA would find a LOT of it's mechanics obtuse and head-scratching. Like people running into the jungle to execute on a neutral camp, even if you had JUST dealt damage to them seconds before. Turn ratings, creep denials, death timers are also excessively longer than leagues. I could go on but i don't have all night
d) DOTA has significantly less waifubait and weebshit which is objectively a plus
e) League is faster paced and more like an arcade game. Cooldowns and resource costs are low, and the lack of turn rating means mastering a champion has a more kinetic and visible effect than it does in DOTA. There really isn't anything like watching a proficient Zed or Lee Sin in DOTA, even if you could make some comparisons like Earth Spirit and Puck. It just isn't as flashy
f) DOTA games last so much fucking longer and you have no way out besides waiting for the game to fully play out
g) visual/audio clarity is also generally better in league, although the amount of skins with unique animations and textures is blurring this a bit. I love DOTA's visuals and sound design but it does not have the same sort of POP to it that hitting a good condemn on Vayne has, or hearing/seeing Jinx pop off in the middle of a team fight
C) yes and no. the more flexible meta in dota means you sometimes won't get instantly flamed for picking a a weird hero o0r itemizing oddly or w/e. Not the case at all in LoL. LoL may be simpler but so the is the strategic depth of its playerbase
E) true that its faster, but mastering a hero in LoL boils down mostly to micro and how spazzy you are. Dota has this ridiculous layer of mastery to it, like where to farm, how much to show up to fights, efficient spell usage blah blah. it might not be as flashy but its certainly a deeper mastery
F) yeah they really need to just fucking add a surrender option. make it conditional though, like no one has a kill, someone is double someone elses level, 30k networth difference or w/e
g) I really can't agree with this. LoL is a visual disaster and I have no idea wtf is going on anymore when I watch it. Dota can have this a bit as well, but its much less pronounced
also nice sopranos pic
no. just no, I've won so many games in dota where it seemed hopeless and my team was ass.
I fucking hate leagues surrender option it totally robs you of clutch victories most of the time, it's garbage.
Yeah, I get that, but I've had just as many games where I'd rather lose than play it out. Like at a certain point it would have been better to just move on with my life and maybe get into the next game. It's one of the reasons I've quit the game twice for several years at a time. But surrendering being an option does lead to some toxic shit where one guy is just a baby and goes GG GG GG surrender all game. Like how in HoN people would literally ragequit if they died to swiftblade once in lane.
I hear what you're saying, but micro doesn't necessarily mean controlling multiple units. It just means precise control over a unit/units.
I play RTS games and watch a lot of starcraft and I would still class pumpfaking a pudge hook as micro
lol I love that lolbabs don't even have unit selection and had to change what micro ment to say that.
>d) globohomo art is objectively a plus
correct on all accounts, with exception of visual clarity. both Dota and Leeg are incredibly visually cluttered and difficult to discern unless you've spent a substantial amount of hours in either
>Visual clarity better in League.
Absolutely wrong. I can't fucking tell what the fuck was happening on my screen in most teamfights even back in 2010 when I played that game, and I'm sure it's only gotten worse since then. League has the same visual noise problem that Overwatch has. That's not even regarding audio quality, which is also more distinct in DotA. You can listen to a game of DotA and know what spells are going off. An Enigma casting black hole, a Lion casting their hex and finger, a Leshrac using Split Earth and their ultimate. Almost no spell is muddied and hard to distinguish.
Great post but to add to b) I think people really glance over the huge skill floor difference that being a pos 4/5 in Dota is compared to being a support in LoL.
You can get your friend into LoL by just telling them to buy their support item, ward, and focus on your abilities and matchups and you will naturally climb ranks as you learn what each champion does. In DotA you NEED to be coached or watch guides (of which there are much fewer DotA videos than LoL) to know what the fuck being a good pos4/5 is. At all ranks in dota people now stack, deny, pull and without somebody explicitly explaining how to generate as much gold as possible for your carry you will get flamed and likely quit the game.
great post. the weirdass mechanics, non-waifu hero designs and lacking the shitty POP in the graphics is why i love dota. i doubt league has someone like rubick or meepo. league feels like a game made to be liked by everyone, dota feels like a game made to be loved by some. i am honestly surprised it is popular at all.
dunkey, but hes long gone
i instead want to ask, is there anyone like trymike4instance on the LoL side?
>League is faster paced and more like an arcade game
Dota is so aggressive these days, it's almost like we're back in the good old days of the 7.06 green hero roaming meta. Dota is making a design push towards a more aggressive, HoN-like game. Pressure and early midgame (10 to 20 minute) kills are the core of the dota experience at the moment.
>DOTA games last so much fucking longer and you have no way out besides waiting for the game to fully play out
That is a good thing, by forcing to play ubtil the end you somewhat mitigate people giving partway through. It's not perfect, but it helps with the problem. It makes the game less snowbally.
>It just isn't as flashy
Well, you are correct in the sense that due to the higher average skill level flashy play is disincentivized or has a different form. For instance, a true Naga Maestro is a very flashy thing to see, but also it's some guy killing neutrals for 10 minutes at 1000 gpm. Midlane exchanges and early support aggression can get flashy at times, but people usually are just too good.
But also there's the usual suspects. All of the mobility carries can be very exciting to see, but not playing like that is also an option.
Heavily disagree with E.
The way League handles skins makes it an absolute mess where you just have to know this is the given's champ's skill sometimes. Not to say Dota isn't leaning into this a bit more, it isn't cowboy Ursa tier but it's Chinese MMO tier graphical vomit
>although the amount of skins with unique animations and textures is blurring this a bit.
Dota started to do this too with all those immortalls with gorillion spell effects. And this comes from people who before said that putting a funny hat on Ursa is too immersion breaking so they have to remove that set
> Visual clutter
What the fuck is this argument, you've obviously not actually played dota.
I played dota from 2013 and the first spell I saw in a random game was Chronosphere.
This massive a f thing that stopped everything inside it.
It captivated me and kept me watching and in just 10mins of seeing the game I knew -
> magic missile
> hoof stomp
> reaper's scythe
just seeing the abilities and then clicking the heroes and reading the text (which is STILL not possible in league btw).
For a complete noob naturally its hard to get into either game, but I've tried watching 2-3 League games and their spells all mesh into the same blob. There's no way to tie any spell to any one hero, so it's much harder to identify spells for a new player as well.
I needed double the time I spent spectating dota games to figure out even one ability (that Pudge hook ripoff lantern thing).
Try playing Dota 2 again in 2023 now that we have the most obnoxious and retarded cosmetics that changes particle effects and makes everything look like golden barf.
Dota USED to have really really good visual clarity and tells, but that was long ago.
Which dota spells are cluttering with immortals/arcanas? As long as you can identify them unlike that arclight vayne 3 hit passive and sand ekko 3 hit passive sfx which look the same.
Leaguefags would suicide en masse if Tinker was added in LoL
dotards would bomb valve HQ and ddos steam 24/7 if Yuumi or any post 2020 champ got added to Dota
Yummi is wisp from Dota actually, most league Champs are half-baked and stolen from dota.
I still have all this random Greevil shit in my inventory. They really never look backwards, do they
All MOBAs are shit that sound good until you actually play it. Unless you just have fun with a friend or something.
>More bloat = good
>More obtuse mechanics = good
>Slow as fuck games = good
>b-b-b-but muh waifus in league...
Dotards are fucking delusional, more news at 11
how many more minigames and walls of text do new league champions have versus the oldest ones
>meepo added to league
>leaguemorons spend 10 years unable to even attempt to play the hero
>Be an ausfag
>Try to play dota
>Queues for over 10 minutes
>Queue pops instantly
>Game full of Filipinos Malaysians and Indonesians that can't speak English and have 600 ping and seethe if you die once
>Queue pops almost instantly
I played League from S2 to S4 and DOTA from 2018 to 2022
I think DOTA is more fun but idk if it's necessarily more difficult
Last year I was getting 1-3 minute queues
Only pajeets and brownoids play Dota 2.
Because Dota is harder, less weeb and less flashy.
you really can smell this sameface AI bullshit from a mile away.
Because it's Dota 2 dumbed down and streamlined for casuals and normalfags
Dota 2 is a chud pajeet game.
Why are you so obsessed with transsexuals?
Good goy, defend the apex of slop
If you play either of these games, you deserve to be disembowelled while your family watches and cheers it on
t.Abdul Pajeet Ismail aka Icefrog
most lol youtubers are some clickbait pajeets or sand morons?
or male feminist losers who do clickbaits people only play the game because there is huge money to be made just look at most streamers do they look like they would play if they didn't get money out of it.
Meanwhile, the only "people" who play dota are pajeets, peruvians, and trannies.
Matumba didn't chud. Crossdressing is just about the whitest thing you can do.
have a nice day, moron. Imagine defending riot unironically.
Arcane is a better show than either game is a game.
>League has an S-tier anime adaptation
>actual game is barely even B-tier
>Dota 2 has B-tier anime adaptation
>actual game is A-tier at worst
it's because valve commissioned that trash and didn't care about the quality. Supposedly dragon's blood was recycled from a reject anime
>Dota 2 has B-tier anime adaptation
yes it's a mediocre anime adaptation.
anything else retard?
It's DOGSHIT trash "anime" adaptation. /a/ couldn't stop making at how shit the animation was. The "plot" is even more laughable than the shitty cheap Korean animation.
Fucking seethe dotachud.
>projecting THIS fucking hard
no not really. it was just incredibly boring and shallow, hence mediocre.
>opinions from tr/a/nnies
Dotashit anime is D tier at best.
imagine having poo eating, cow worshipping, call center scamming third worlders living rent free inside your head.
Your dead game anime is still shit, Abdul pajeet ismail.
do you sleep at night dreaming of Indians leaguebro?
You're the one who's still sucking Ismail rotten cock, dotacuck
idk leaguebro but you might be gay. you cannot stop thinking about someone sucking cocks.
zyori has always been a gay, always. Since the retard showed up and started sniffing his balls on stream
>he has an image of a chud saved in his device
even trannies too leaguebro?
not my fault your game has many chuds in it. dumb dotard.
>knows his game is objectively inferior so he has to cling to irrelevant external bullshit
I'm sorry I forgot the term for you americans: Netflix adaptation.
>[DOTA 2] is A- tier at worst
lol, lmao even
It's one of the few games I label as certified kusoge. It's literally Cocacola vs Pepsi, except one of them can't even get the packaging right.
>It's one of the few games I label as certified kusoge
As someone who has no horse in this race, you don't get to play assgays unironically and use the term "kusoge".
Some are less kusoge than others. To witness just how bad DOTA 2's design is-
League of Legends:
>Attack minion, they follow you as long as you maintain aggro. This can be used to your advantage.
>minions follow you only after the first initial hit in a set time limit. You need to move them out of an invisible barrier within the moment of time a minute switches to another minute. So for example 0:59 -> 1:00. This is an intentional mechanic that grants a gold bonus, and it is assumed that other players do this regularly to support their team. This is known as Stacking and isn't properly taught to you in the tutorial. You will get flamed if you don't do it correctly.
>game is kusoge just because there are obscure mechanics
All assgays are shitty joke games that you're not meant to play >ranked if you have a soul, but you might as well call all true roguelikes kusoge just because there is a steep learning curve.
You're a retard, here is what you are trying and deliberately failing to explain
>Jungle camps do not refill unless all minions in it are dead, you cannot use this to your advantage, best you can do is kill em fast.
>jungle camps refill if there are no creeps in them, you can use this to your advantage by making the creeps chase you out of the camp so it refills even when you are not strong enough to kill them
I fucking hate zoomers and how they must have everything spoonfed to them, I guess this "depth" is considered strange and scary when you've spend your entire childhood in front of an iPad.
Wait, can you even block camps in league? I know they have like a damage and magic buff jungle minions but I don't remember being able to block them from spawning, you could only really steal the buffs by killing them
no. camps always spawn on the minute every minute. Best you can do is steal the enemy jg
Stealing enemy jungle is a huge deal in League though. They don't spawn "every minute". If you eat their Rift that's an enormous deal. To the point where there are dedicated announcements in game because it's that huge of a shift in the match.
Meanwhile "i stopped your scrungus from spawning, now you've lost 3 gold >:)" is just boring as hell as opposed to "I have a literal tank I can spawn at will, cope and seethe". I do emphasize, League does more with less.
Both games suck, tbh.
not the fucking hearld or dragons you retard, the red and blue buff camps
Those are also a big deal. If you can steal enemy jungle twice, you've notably limited the enemy jungle, forcing them to either make riskier moves to catch up, or trying to steal your jungle (which you hopefully warded)
It does the same thing with less.
>Jungle camps do not refill unless all minions in it are dead, you cannot use this to your advantage, best you can do is kill em fast.
That's not what I'm referring to. In LoL you can leash minions a large distance, even taking the minions with you into the bushes, exploiting the aggro like a landmine. You can take an objective and bait them towards where you want the fight to take place, and just works with that "unspoken teamwork" aspect if you're playing solo queue.
I'm not saying stacking is a bad mechanic, that is not my argument. I'm saying the implementation is brain dead. League does have an equivalent, and that's maximizing your jungle clear time so they respawn in a more optimal point in time.
It does mostly the same thing and doesn't require a dedicated tutorial, while the aggro mechanic is also more versatile as a whole.
what the fuck are you talking about? You can barely move LoL minions at all before they run back to the lane, they even have normalized speed so they go back to where they're "supposed" to be and you can't do any even remotely advanced creep tech. The game is rigid and sterilized as fuck.
Leashing as a mechanic exists so you can keep them at a decent range. I've used this a lot in combat, especially the larger objectives like Rift or Drake. Also it being rigid isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if that were true. Something I'm picking up from this thread is most DOTA players have not played much of League, yet still want to criticize it for being ""too simple"" as if that were valid criticism to begin with.
The problem with the DOTA design at its core is that it "thinks" these are issues, so it implements mechanics explicitly that already existed implicitly. So for example
>you can kill your own minions to deny the enemy!!!
The whole point of killing the enemy minions efficiently is gold income. This technically already existed in its function and does not need to be made explicit.
>you can stack minons!! so much depth :oo
The whole point of killing jungle objectives efficiently is so they respawn when you need them again. This technically already existed in its function and does not need to be made explicit.
I don't even necessarily love the MOBA genre because of the curse left by League and DOTA. But got dang does DOTA feel like it was made by a team at least 50IQ lower. I mean, they have a built in tutorial made by eceleb's that crashes if you recall at the wrong time.
>most DOTA players have not played much of League
>The whole point of killing the enemy minions efficiently is gold income. This technically already existed in its function and does not need to be made explicit.
You've got to be baiting. You're the one who hasn't played the other game.
Tell me, what do you think it is that denying creeps does in Dota? Hint: It has nothing to do with gold
It is 50% gold income (by reducing the enemy's gold) and 50% exp income (through reducing the enemy's exp). Please explain why this leads to a notably different gameplay format than
>get gold and exp
Good job! It's XP.
Reminder: in BOTH games, killing creeps yourself isn't necessary to get XP, they simply must die.
Now let's ask ourselves a question: is there a way to deny your opponent experience in League, other than forcing them entirely out of XP range? If you can answer this, you'll discover exactly how it is that denies add depth to Dota's laning!
>Now let's ask ourselves a question: is there a way to deny your opponent experience in League, other than forcing them entirely out of XP range?
Not really, however forcing them out of EXP range can be done in like 10 different ways, so it's disingenuous to assume that it's just a singular decision making process (jungler presence, vision advantage, health advantage, wave control, utility items, etc). If you get more gold in that lane than the enemy, for all intents and purposes they got less relative gold and exp in the context of the lane, so it's a bizarre argument.
You're missing the point. Different? Yes. (Mostly) the same purpose? Yes.
And all those ways (and then some) also exist in Dota 2, how about you list mechanics or depth present only in LoL instead of both games?
"Not really" or "No"? Honest question.
>forcing them out of EXP range can be done in like 10 different ways
Pretty sure there's only... 4? And that's being generous. It more or less boils down to bullying them out of lane, or (technically) luring them to another lane.
>so it's disingenuous to assume that it's just a singular decision making process
You act as if I deny the complexity of the task of forcing an enemy out of lane / XP range. I never have and I do not. However, it is a *singular* task, the number of paths to it is irrelevant.
Denying is a separate option that is available to both sides from minute 0, and thus adds another dimension to Dota's.
>If you get more gold in that lane than the enemy, for all intents and purposes they got less relative exp in the context of the lane
This is an incredibly weak argument. Gold is not XP. They did not "for all intents and purposes" get less relative XP. They got the same XP. Unless you forced them out, killed them, or (in Dota) denied them.
>"Not really" or "No"? Honest question.
By not really, I meant no. Nothing else comes to mind than bread and butter lane control. In my view, minion denying is just pretty adjacent to the options we already have in most other MOBAs. You're trying to get the gold/exp advantage in a lane.
The reason I do not think it is radically different is because you're still glued to your lane, visually doing the same things you would in League, Smite, Paragon, etc. As a player I don't care. As a spectator it's more of the same.
I hate the porn argument as it feels like it's trying to absolve Valve of any responsibility for their declining player numbers. Valve did not maintain TF2, TF2 is dying. That's all there is to it. Their animated shorts are more popular than Blizzard's on Youtube, so I think this point does not hold up at all and is just lashing out.
> In my view, minion denying is just pretty adjacent to the options we already have in most other MOBAs.
I mean, you're wrong, lol. It's an option competitively focused around last-hitting ability that doesn't require you to force the enemy out of lane, and is available to both teams during the entire laning phase.
It even increases the decision-making during last-hitting, as creeps will often get low HP at the same time. Do I try to deny theirs? Or just secure my own? None of this exists in League.
TF2 is a 15 year old game
Overwatch is not.
To say "of Valve is guilty of not supporting TF2" is like blaming Blizzard for not supporting Diablo 3, and even then that won't be fair to Valve because when Diablo 3 released TF2 was already 5 years old.
Also ignoring the porn, are you saying that Blizzard is supporting Overwatch with anything? It's already on maintenance mode.
I am not making this an Overwatch vs TF2 argument. Blizzard are incompetent, we can agree.
I am saying "its more popular cause porn xd" is certified cope. Valve's characters in TF2 are by far more liked by the community, and you can prove this by Youtube views of the character oriented shorts.
So when people make this argument for DOTA vs League, I don't even consider it.
>The whole point of killing jungle objectives efficiently is so they respawn when you need them again.
The point of killing jungle is for farm.
The reason you want to kill them fast is for farm.
Them being dead means you have no extra farm outside of lane.
Stacking is mainly a way for supports to put extra gold on the map for their cores, at the cost of a camp taking slighty more time to farm.
You're a moron.
That's more or less what I said, but the problem is you're getting pedantic. Think about what it actually does in-game.
Leashing and Clear Times (League of Legends):
>do it right and there are more minions on the map at a given time
Stacking (DOTA 2):
>do it right and there are more minions on the map at a given time
You completely missed the point. Are they different? Yes. They also do the same thing. Sick of this pseudo intellectual League vs DOTA crap. Might as well debate Pepsi vs Coke.
Yes you fucking retard.
>leashing and clear times
do it and there are more minions
>pulling and clear times as well as stacking
do it and there are more creeps, better lane control (either moving the lane closer to your tower for safer farm, or moving the lane closer to their tower to push as the situation calls for), and more variety for when you want to mind control a creep and control it like an RTS unit
More options, more use cases.
Your entire argument is worded to make it seem like LoL and Dota2 branch off but have similar mechanics that are homologous, instead of actually mentioning that the mechanics League has already in Dota, as well as many more on top it.
Your attempts at dismissing counter-arguments as "pedantic" doesn't work when you yourself are lying by omission.
Pulling is in League too, why did you present that as a DOTA exclusive mechanic?
>Your entire argument is worded to make it seem like LoL and Dota2 branch off but have similar mechanics that are homologous
My argument is DOTA 2's added depth is redundant as the goal of these new mechanics existed without being explicit before. Hence their direct inspiration being crap people were already doing. ""depth""
I've also stated depth does not inherently hold merit or necessarily create notable new opportunities. So trying to redirect this argument as "depth: yes/no" is extremely dishonest.
>Pulling is in League too, why did you present that as a DOTA exclusive mechanic?
I literally listed the mechanics that are "equivalent" but use different terminology under each other, only adding "stacking" with a separator of "as well as" to denote it as an addition, and not just different terminology of an existing mechanic.
>leashing , clear times
>pulling, clear times AS WELL AS stacking
>My argument is DOTA 2's added depth is redundant as the goal of these new mechanics existed without being explicit before. Hence their direct inspiration being crap people were already doing. ""depth""
And my rebuttal is that "the goal" you speak of is not aligned between the two games, you only ever compare the mechanics with the sole explicit purpose of having more minions/creeps on the map at any given time, while completely glossing over the fact that there are other goals you could wish to accomplish in Dota besides having more minions/creeps such as regulating the lane tempos both aggressivly or defensively, acquiring helper units to accomplish specific goals (Troll camp to acquire a ranged tether, Centaur for a melee stun, Wildwing to nuke camps passively, or yes even a Satyr to help STACK, since each creep is controlled like an RTS unit, you get all the advantages of multiple controlled units with unique abilities) etc...
Both approaches to your arguments are flawed because while both games have some common ways to achieve the goals common to both, Dota 2 grants you more tools to achieve those goals, while also offering even more goals to pursue at your discretion.
In layman's terms
Your argument: LoL and Dota have the same tools for the same goals
My rebuttal: Dota has more tools, and more goals on top of the common ones between the two.
This is how depth is expressed, through variety, decisions; when each option is balanced by the inherent cost in not having picked the other one(s).
>such as regulating the lane tempos both aggressivly or defensively, acquiring helper units to accomplish specific goals,
This is also true for League and dictates large portions of the meta.
>Your argument: LoL and Dota have the same tools for the same goals
I did not say this. DOTA has more tools for the same goals. But I am arguing those added tools lean on redundant unless you're knee deep into number crunching. In addition having more tools does not necessarily make for a better game. I said this like 10 times.
The zoomed out game design:
>League: mid lane pushes mid lane
>DOTA: mid lane pushes mid lane
Meanwhile both fanbases try to eat each other alive over how "totally" different it is. They're both slop trying to capitalize on a gamemode neither studio had any involvement creating. It's even less of a difference than PUBG vs Fortnite.
If league is the "higher IQ" game, why is it such a common occurrence to see high-rank league players who try Dota become utterly bewildered by its complexity, and not vice versa?
LoL clearly has more mechanical complexity, shit all the canceling bullshit you can do on Riven alone for example is ridiculous. But that's twitchy reaction-based gameplay, and has nothing to do with IQ.
Dota is easily the game with the (incredibly) more complex macro-game. The hard part in Dota isn't how to physically do something, it's knowing what the hell type of maneuver to even go for in the first place. Meanwhile league's macro-gameplay patterns are essentially unchanging flowcharts.
I'm not referring to the game's complexity when I mean IQ. I'm referring to the intent behind design decisions.
They both fundamentally fail as games regarding the solo queue experience. But I do feel League makes more coherent sense as a whole where DOTA is a whole lot of "stuff". However, this is only when discussing the new mechanics both games offer. No matter how much incremental depth DOTA has, it will not successful differentiate itself from League at this point. They're slaves to the same base DOTA 1 design.
You don’t play the game
Manipulating waves, the aggro on minions (e.g. attacking the enemy champion to direct minion aggro towards yourself to let your wave push faster since their minions focus on you while your focus on theirs, or teleporting to a canon minion to manipulate to stagger its movement and make the wavestate different) are things in league
I could go on and on
Jungle camps also have great aggro range and kiting them, while also leading them out, and maintaining aggro is a great skill
You can do this with dragon for example to take it over to your side of the map
You playing 3 games of league 10 years ago doesn’t make you an expert you retarded cretin
>Manipulating waves, the aggro on minions (e.g. attacking the enemy champion to direct minion aggro towards yourself to let your wave push faster since their minions focus on you while your focus on theirs, or teleporting to a canon minion to manipulate to stagger its movement and make the wavestate different) are things in league
NTA but this is all in dota too, like you do realize league's fundamentals are just dota but stripped down, dota has all that ontop of denying and pulling creeps into jungle camps to completely deny any xp
And in high skill games you even have people using the glyph to fuck with peoples farm early on
It always rubs me the wrong way seeing posts like this trying to make league sound complex when it quite literally is DOTA-lite
I never said it’s more complicated than dota
I said that people claiming league is some baby retard easy game to pick up are being dishonest
Do those last 20% really matter? Does it actually makes the game better?
The subject was depth, and of course you wouldn't make the claim that LoL has more depth than Dota2 because then you'd be instantly disregarded as baiting.
>does that last 20% really matter? Does it actually make the game better?
It does, and it does.
That last 20% is what separates a sloppy game from a good game. This 20% being omitted is how you get Back 4 Blood from a game like Left 4 Dead.
They're more similar than different. League has many mechanics DOTA doesn't have, but it's just a dumb pedantic argument.
The reason why League is lower friction than DOTA isn't complexity, but that Riot teaches players much better than Valve did. They just have a better tutorial. Both games have players eying spread sheets for 50 hours and are otherwise inaccessible to normies and modern gaming sensibilities.
Well I didn't read the shit you replied to so I don't know if you're replying to some baiting moron
And yeah, I'd say denying creeps adds a lot, having to pay attention to double the amount of creeps in your lane and once again I see you lol players undermine the impact pulling and denying farm has, I get that league has basically "guaranteed" farm because of the way the game is set up but I don't understand why so many posts in here talking about the jungle and creeps are met with "they're just a little gold", it's clear you don't play dota
A fucking ranged creep is 40 gold, double for the flag carrier which is 60~ which is also shared with your support, 30~ for a melee
I haven't played league in almost a decade now (or dota in a while) but I remember the values being really fucking low in that game like around 20~ a per minion?
I guess that's the reason you guys don't find this very valuable
>I haven't played league in almost a decade now (or dota in a while) but I remember the values being really fucking low in that game like around 20~ a per minion?
It depends on the minion type and how far you are in the game. Seige minions grant 60-90 gold and those are default spawning minions within waves. Either way, number crunching are things people care about if they're already somewhat competitive. Most players are not competitive.
The reason why most League players don't play DOTA, and most DOTA players don't play League, is that they're mostly the same. Same with Overwatch vs TF2.
Perfect comparison actually.
Overwatch is sanitized, controlled, devoid of style, it exists for copious amount if godlike porn to be made of its characters.
TF2 is the superior game, despite the smaller playerbase.
Replace Overwatch with LoL, and TF2 with Dota2 and the comparison still stands.
I'm just saying it's important to note the gold difference here because I'm guessing that's the reason lol players doesn't seem to value stacking and pulling as much, being able to completely deny an entire wave from the enemy is a really big deal
The average Dota player, super casual Fred, still understands why you pull and manipulate minion waves. In League you can freeze a wave, but you aren't seeing it super often outside of pro matches and even then there are times they would just shove anyways for a low% chance dive or so they can back. Hell, the mediocre Dota tutorials actually teach you to pull while you would have to look up when its the right time to freeze a wave to your benefit.
They're both branching from DOTA 1, and the original creators were not involved in the creation of DOTA 2 and League of Legends.
Anyway, he's not trying to make League of Legends sound complex, and being complex has no inherent merit anyway. He's trying to argue that they're both the same ballpark even without layers of redundant mechanics.
Leashing is just as complicated as Stacking, if not more so, while being easier to learn for noobs. Not that being complicated serves any value, but the argument that "DOTA is a thinking man's game" is a meme.
thats not even how it works in EITHER of them you retard
in LoL you maintain aggro until vision is lost or you move out of a certain range
in dota they will follow you forever until vision is lost which they then try to acquire a new target or return if there is no new target while looking for a new target
yes, u can't aggro creeps at any time, they wont chase u if they are busy fighting and recently changed targets
ur just retarded
>in LoL you maintain aggro until vision is lost or you move out of a certain range
Yes, this is called leashing, what I mentioned.
>in dota they will follow you forever until vision is lost which they then try to acquire a new target or return if there is no new target while looking for a new target
Why isn't it taught to the player through the literal 5 pages worth of tutorial levels, including a feature length tutorial made by ecelebrities?
I used to play lol and the community is pure cringe most of them are SJW who love all the gay stuff and moron champs.
they butchered the whole shit show not sure why anyone would be interested of their shitty MMO full of morons.
Good morning sirs.
Dude I just hate lol, because the community is cringe and they think that every character from other media is stolen from lol or something it's full of crybaby manchildren and teenagers terrible.
Riot got super pozzed I think they turned leona diana gay Twisted fate graves gay Udyr reworks makes him fat.
Look at arcane morons everywhere.
Seething dotard pajeet
See that's what I'm talking about the game literally released that moron rap then the main dev self insert pajeet shitskahn (akshan) then pajeet female with whip
bel'veth let's ruin void lore too
What are you some kinda bald ugly male feminist because that's what most league players are even the Imatqpie is some liberal loser.
Let's talk about Dota chud characters instead. Why did Abdul Poojet Smell turn Link Inverse into a chud?
I have no idea, because I have never played dota, but I would defiantly used it to trash talk lol all day.
Yes dotafags league is so shitty that people would rather side with the game they have never played.
actually its the other way around
Lina is the original, link the gender bent "experimental" phase lina went through, before eventually realizing she needed to go back to being a woman
yea im in the same boat
Imagine defending a "strategy game" where you're only allowed to use one strategy
>He thinks the first ten minutes of the match is the only time strategy happens
>iconic characters, was extremely soulful back when it blew up in popularity, fun gameplay
>generic ai generated characters/warcraft ripoffs, ugly graphics with tons of microtransaction shit from day 1, horrible gameplay and every other player is a russian hacker, if not it's some 30+ year old alcoholic who hates his life
>was extremely soulful
wha happun leaguebro? nuLeague lost its sovl?
tits and ass isn't iconic
it was the opposite of soul; designed to rip profit and players out of all-stars
gameplay isn't fun
bro there's a fucking bear and a e-boi skeleton
down to taste, which you lack
what fucking microtransactions? It got bad with ti7, not fucing ti1
again preference, sounds likea fufcking skill issue to me
league gets the same gays dota does
tl;dr you're a moron and a chink shill. Go fucking have a nice day via air balloon strangulation
I'm not the one that cut my dick off to crossdress
Did they actually finally made a fempugna
Because Smite never had the proper chance to prove its worth with a proper developer running it
Smite is complete dog shit
It's not even actually 3D
>Smite is complete dog shit
It's only bogged down by HR's incompetence, yes.
>It's not even actually 3D
Various things aren't, some are.
>Various things aren't, some are.
None of it is. Everything is functionally locked to a 2D plane.
irrelevant when many, many abilities still require depth perception and timing like jumps and ults.
But that isn't what I said, I said it wasn't functionally 3D. Stop moving the goalposts
you still have to discern in the 3rd dimension for stuff like thor's ult, anhur's jump, rav's ult, herc's boulder, etc.
whether it's faked by 2d is irrelevant, all that matters is the gameplay requiring the skills.
I REALLY hate you aren't this same autist that i've seen in smite threads in the past.
I accept your concession
>no argument so you throw out the catch phrase
I had one argument and you agreed it was correct, there's nothing more to say here
>the same gay spamming owg from time to time with valorant and league shit is a resident v-shitposter
nah man, can't be, impossible
have a nice day
LoL released first. All of the DotA players went to HoN, which was better than DotA, and then by the time DotA 2 came out, they'd had their fill.
You think someone would do that ? Just go on the internet and post truths ?
disregarding bickering anons
is there anyone like this dude on the LoL side?
none because Riot HATES toxicity.
Slacks would've been fired years ago if he worked at Riot.
not insofar as I've seen. There's personalities, but very few schitzos that managed to gain enough traction to go work at riot
Slacks is way too unpredictable for riot, they're too rigid when it comes to that sort of content or, any content honestly
I fucking hope not. I can't stand Slacks and his retarded "humor"
Tyler1, although he got perma banned. I mean, to be fair he was literally sabotaging solo queue. DOTA 2 and League communities will always be toxic at a game mechanic level.
>sabotaging solo queue
was the dude legit running down mid and yelling slurs or something?
tylers the one who spawned "running it down" lmao
That's why OG tyler was fucking based. Rito gayms still deserves inting for doing what they've done to /all chat and refusing to fix their FUCKING game and fix their FUCKING client.
Also, I loved watching this midget's variety streams with Gayreek before everything collapsed. He genuinely seemed happier playing shit like h1z1, anything other than fucking League.
Eh, these games are toxic at a design level. Impossible to save them, so let's keep the Tyler1's imo.
You don't have any digits either, so don't talk to me until you can roll AT LEAST doubles.
It's easier to find pdf's to pirate on DDG than censored Google tbh
Tyler1 was the man that CREATED running down mid. He actually coined the phrase. He had a text document called the intlist where instead of dodging a match, he would actively sabotage a match if anyone of them were on his team.
He is the archetypal MOBA player.
He invented running down mid. Ghost+TP, mobi boots, buy wards to drop under enemy tower so they can kill them for more gold, steal red/blue buff from his jungler so he can donate it when he dies. Had an int list of people that had annoyed him so he can grief them on sight, and all while streaming and encouraging viewers to join him in order to punish Riot. His actions have probably lead to millions of games of LoL being ruined. He's now the posterchild for the game, which is hilarious.
DOTA 2 and League of Legends are both inherently complex games with high learning curves. However, DOTA 2's design philosophy, in my eyes, is just inferior. Despite both games being born from the same exact mod, and even sharing staff between the same mod team. What DOTA 2 does worse that limits its success:
>has a childlike view on depth, thinking more mechanics = more betterer, leading to a playstyle not much more versatile than League while taking longer to grasp.
>has a god awful tutorial that will actually crash or softlock players, that is also 4x the length of League of Legend's tutorial
>character designs are bland and hard to focus on, outside of only like 4 characters they reuse in every piece of marketing. One of the characters is a literal ball of light.
>Is on less platforms. League is getting a console release as well. Meanwhile Gabe was unwilling to port to Android and iOS because it "just wouldn't work"
>Valve failed their push to branch DOTA 2 into a series of games. Their animated series is worse than Arcane. They couldn't even clone autochess right, so Riot took that marketshare with Team Fight Tactics
It's not luck or "league of legends is more casual", it's just that Valve are a worse development team for this. I've played many MOBAs and DOTA 2 was the joyless blackhole. Any MOBA that tried to copy it died off as soon as it lost its vision. That is not the case for League.
i agree that dota is shit, but dotas tutorial is way better. leagues tutorial is practically non existant. it basically only tells you how to not get hit by turrets. thats it. nothing about jungle. nothing about last hitting. nothing about items. just how you shouldnt walk under a turret without a minion going first
Both are equally shit.
League of Legends has more cheaters and bots than Dota 2 in my experience, but both are still equally shit.
It's like a casino, and if you play this shit on RANKED to LARP that you will ever become a professional and get paid to play this shit, oh boy, do I have bad news for you.
>every single anwser to the op's quiestion is wrong
Here's the real reason, people.
Unironically the League roster is more diverse in a way that wants me to play more characters. I was looking at the DOTA 2 roster with someone and we were literally laughing in tears over how bad it was.
Valve are so bad at character design they don't even know what Alyx's canon appearance even is. They're great at robots. They suck at fantasy.
last time i watched league at least 2/3rds of the characters all looked the same because they have the exact same base humanoid model/skeleton they were built off of. It made following what was happening even harder than the awful artstyle did
People like cute anime boy and cute anime girl. That being said, the monster designs are better in League, imo. Warwick, Aurelion Sol, and Rek'Sai are all great designs and are used commonly. The ratio is definitely not 1:1 however. There definitely is a bias, I'll admit that.
I think Valve also knows their character designs aren't amazing, judging by how they only market like 4 characters.
>take a unique character
>remove the unique gimmick and turn him into a generic mage
Wew, I still feel disdain towards rito for that
What did they do? I'm not familiar with his rework.
I think his design is alright.
>What did they do? I'm not familiar with his rework.
They removed the entire thing about revolving stars like Mephisto from HotS or Eisp from Dota had
Now he's a generic mage with a global ult
fuk off nyx is cool as hell
Anon they unironically pander to femoid players since those refuse to play as anything but a girl character.
Which is peak retard anyways because a good, interesting skillset will make me care about character far more than looks or VA
>pander to femoid players
Its male players that main the cute girls. They also have fujoshi bait all the same.
>interesting skillset will make me care about character far more than looks or VA
I honestly think the League movesets are more interesting, although leaning towards "multi-role" for better or worse. I understand a lot of people hate the anime inspiration, but characters like Zeri being a perpetually accelerating battery is really unique once you actually figure out how to use that to your advantage. Maybe I haven't played DOTA enough but the characters feel more like archetypes taken out of Warcraft.
I like rougelikes. They justify the depth with actual fun. DOTA is just complex because it thinks being more complex is a good thing. But the actual gameplay is just your average MOBA again.
the newly released black gay hero is fucking dogshit.
he's an absolute shit design and his dash looks like it's missing an animation because it happens so fast
riot has really fucked up on visual clarity in the past few years
>DOTA2 has humans, midgets, elves, monsters, elementals and force concepts and all sorts of wacky shit
>LoL has 80 flavours of K-POP band member but some are nogs
Real diverse. I bet they don't even have a waifu as good as Winter Wyvern.
You have to be trolling. League roster is way way way way better than the shit that dota is.
>doto has Meepo
All I need.
watching pro league is so fun.
I can't believe it's chinks vs morons fighting in the grand finals again for the 749918th time!
>this assgays is better than this assgays
I wish all MOBAtrannies a painful death.
MOBAs popularized Pro Leagues hence also increasing the number of try hard sweaty fat fucks in literally every single multiplayer game.
you're all morons.
Dota isn't a moba
member when Riot banned all chat
Having played Dota 2 recently for the first time, I gotta say I'm not surprised LoL is more popular, it's so much easier to get into, and besides all the other points made in this thread, LoLs graphics are better looking AND have better performance for some reason.
cel-shading and heavy outlines don't automatically make better muh grafix
You don't know what that is
Honestly I think DOTA has better environment art, but League has better everything else.
Riot texture paints *too* much.
League of legends is a shitty game that runs on a toaster, it's basically moba fortnite.
There you have it, if you merge both audiences they are pretty much the same: underage retards.
It's more accessible.
But both ASSgayS games suck because their communities are extremely annoying and the games themselves repeatedly fuck themselves over just for esports. I stopped taking the rank masturbation seriously when I realized that most people who engage in it are casuals who played the same game for years and barely play anything else, but who just happen to be focused on one game.
>being obtuse, slow, clunky, and less popular makes it, le good
Retarded contrarian opinions
lol had a very interesting cast to start with. not any more, but for a while it was anything goes. a whole lot of sexy girls too. i suspect it had a lot to do with that.
other than that, by the time lol rolled around there were surely lots of people who were tired of dota and hon and wanted something new but familiar to do.
when dota 2 came around it was unfinished and half the cast was an ugly parody of what they looked like in wc3 with the same gameplay. i could barely bring myself to care.
Simply because its easier and caters to 0 iq weebs.
>Riot hires tons of millenials
>They kill LoL in only 2 years through political correctness
Ty based retards
HoN best out of these 3 ripoffs
So many reasons
HoN hero design turned to shit the moment Icefrog moved on to Dota2, still...
>tfw no Flux equivalent in doto
I have no idea what happened when but sure there was more carefully crafted heroes in HoN, for example i have no idea how badly they can rework heroes like techies in dota2.. when HoN did the rework so easily with Engineer
>tfw no Flux equivalent in doto
Came out first, with a freemium models that at the time Western games weren't doing. What F2P games were even in 2007-2009? TF2 didn't go F2P yet IIRC.
played both for years
the only moba i play to actually have fun is pic related though
lol is more popular because arcane is a popular show that gets praised while dragon's blood is almost unknown and has mixed reception
the games themselves have nothing to do with it
I haven't played dota since 2014. I played 2k hours since warcraft days.
Could I get back into it? Is it much different?
a friend of mine who is a long dota player like myself tested LoL for months and overall he told me it was a less complex game in general than dota, so LoL is more for normies than dota
They're both normiecore.
Understand my perspective: You're still glued to your lane trying to get the exp and gold advantage. In different ways, but it's the same broad strokes. I acknowledge they are different. I do not respect the design decision as something that is notable.
I'd argue its primary effect on the game was being punishing towards noobs, more than the actual added depth or mind games it offers. It's not just denying, this is my primary criticism of DOTA 2. Literally why play it if you're playing any other MOBA, unless you're knee deep into comp.
dota is more popular with all the people that matter
wolves don't care about the opinions of sheep
Are dota players really going to pretend that zoning, freezing, and general wave manipulation doesn’t accomplish the exact same thing?
Are league players going to predent that zoning, freezing and general wave manipulation don't already exist in Dota in the first place too?
>denying your enemy exp and gold by gaining control of the wave through superior micro play and a better understanding of the game is le bad
>gaining a gold and exp lead through some others means is le good
Delusional, it’s fundamentally the same shit
There was only extra steps added, no functional difference
unironically pokemon unite is more fun than both
>b-but muh depth
nobody gives a shit. you're playing a game not engineering the next big invention. you can wank about how much iq you have all you want it doesn't change that all you're doing is clicking on shit until it dies.
unite just takes that formula, removes all the dumbfuck farming fluff and puts you straight into actually fighting and resolves in less than half the time. an actual real game to be played instead of an addiction simulator.
League feels better to play and looks better and that is all that matters
Anything else is pure cope
I don’t see you grinding your own flour and baking your own bread
It’s more complex than buying some from the bakery so it must be better, I don’t see why everyone doesn’t do it
It's pretty obvious even to an outsider that lol is a more casual game. The matches are like 20 min
xbox is more popular with all the people that matter
wolves don't care about the opinions of sheep
Are league players really going to pretend that their game is not stuck in a single meta for so long and that's the reason all their best players come from just one country called south korea
Their meta changes every other update because Riot doesn't test their updates. A green booger monster from launch era suddenly became relevant because riot forgot he existed.
Also who cares. Meta for Quake flat lined. Still fun. Weird as hell "my game is better" arguments.
Still a single meta, all your best players are asian and that's says a lot about the game since asians enjoy things that never change
"your best players"
You talk like I work at Riot. I simply do not care for whatever going on in competitive. I just know it changes in casual and low elo comp a lot.
dota2 is a junkyard of mechanics
League has better character designs that are cooler, more interesting, easier to connect to, and appeal to a wider audience
That's literally 80% of the reason behind the vast difference in popularity
You see a fucker like blitzcrank, motherfuckers a big robot with a cool name and gigantic fists and a fucking rocket grab that can punch your guts into liquid shit in 4 seconds flat and a static field that acts like an EMP on crack cocaine gorilla steroids
One of the biggest issues with dota character design is the shitty, descriptive names, like 'centaur warrunner' or 'enchantress', it tells us absolutely fuck all about the flavour of the character
In league there is a particular attention that's given to how champs are named, and it makes the first encounter with them very memorable, their splashes and names along with the flashy shit they do gives a complete image of what the character is like, full of flair and excitement, and you either click with it or you don't, but a lot of people are able to find their niches in league
In dota, not only the names suck fucking ass, but there are no cool-looking splashes, just poorly conceived 3d models
It makes it incredibly difficult to connect to the heroes, or to get engaged with their characters
I don't care how deep they actually are ingame or how good their lines are, if the first point of meeting them is underwhelming, many people won't give the game even a second fucking look
some of the DOTA designs are boring as shit
This is a good 80% of the reason League is moging DOTA despite being so similar. They know how to use their budget better. The 3D models are only like 10 pixels, so in League the models suck and they move on to the portraits and splash art. Meanwhile at Valve they insist they need the PBR film models for the stale as heck designs that are barely visible on screen.
The other 20% is that DOTA does not really understand what kind of complexity actually creates a palpably better experience to the players. eSports and comp do not count as those subhumans do not play for fun anyway.
mogged by pudge, the sole reason why this archetype is called "hookers" and not "grabbers"
>normal people with social lives, jobs, girlfriends, and large networks
>30 year old 3rd world losers with no-one in their life who derive the little self-worth they have from being a contrarian and liking an objectively worse game
Nah, both fit in the latter category tbqh.
I can respect moba players, but if you play literally just mobas you've basically turned into a gremlin by now.
I’m white btw
I wish I was a woman
Unlocking heros is mega gay. Dota wins.
>normal people with social lives, jobs, girlfriends, and large networks
>3rd world losers with no-one in their life who derive the little self-worth they have from being a contrarian and liking an objectively worse game
I’m trans btw
I wish I was white
The reason why league has always been and will always be more popular is because it’s better
It’s that simple
People spend thousands of hours in these games so people choose the better game
This, it's why mcdonalds is the best food and pop is objectively the best music. Millions of flies can't be wrong.
We're talking McDonalds vs Burger King, let's be honest.
Are you really going to pretend to hate McDonalds just to win an argument?
Are you really going to pretend you love McDonalds just to win an argument?
No, because I’m not pretending
I, and most other people, love me some slop
And I can guarantee you’ve ate there several times and liked it too
>I, and most other people, love me some slop
McDonalds is good though. Healthy? Maybe not
marketing investment is your answer. riots entire name and every product they've ever made is purely built on extensive massive marketing budgets and spamming it everywhere, constantly.
Valve pushes DOTA like there's no tomorrow. They made a feature length film about competitive drama. They made 2 spinoff games and funded an anime. They have bajillion dollar prize pools because they so desperately want it to be an eSport. Their next game is rumored to be in the DOTA IP.
DOTA is the only IP Valve ever markets. They didn't even care for Half-Life Alyx post release.
>They have bajillion dollar prize pools
funded by the consoomers who buy the Battlepass every year. Valve only contributes $1.6M to the prize pool.
>they so desperately want it to be an eSport
technically it's Riot doing this since Worlds had better production than The International these past few years. TI2022's production was so dogshit that the livestream during the grand finals got cut off for a few minutes, Valve just does not give a shit anymore. Riot also funds $2.25M to the prize pool in worlds, much higher than Valve's TI. Riot also invited Lil Nas X last year so that they could appeal to zoomers to watch Worlds, I bet they will double down this year.
>DOTA is the only IP Valve ever markets
Riot's the one pushing League like there's no tomorrow. Riot made a mobile game based on League to appeal to the mobile market. where's Dota 2 mobile? never existed. Riot is making Project L, a fighting game based on League. Teamfight Tactics. Legends of Runeterra. Ruined King. Riot's next game is a new MMO based on League.
Damn, all you did was prove how proactive Riot Games is compared to Valve, which has done absolutely nothing for the last 10 years since their last game (Dota 2). The fact that you're unironically defending Valve, who has given your game shit for years and also left golden goose games like TF2 and CSGO for dead, and then trying to spin this as something to brag about is just sad. I honestly believe there is nobody who actually enjoys playing any of the Valve games, just a bunch of cult Gabe cock sucking fanatics with a terrible case of masochism.
Honestly Valve's eSports are so soulless I can't conceive why people still play them.
>Counter Strike 2 which is basically a copy paste
Even DOTA 2 is from 2008, at least Riot is moving on.
Says this as the Riot's mismanagement of LCS has basically killed NA as a region.
Yes, NA dota is dead too but at least SA has taken its place
Dotard aren't truly like that, even pros don't play many other games besides maybe CSGO
>killed NA as a region
And yet it has more viewership than any other Esport right now. Let me see Dota NA's viewership so that I can laugh.
>where's Dota 2 mobile? never existed.
Artifact and Underlords are on mobile. DOTA 2 mobile was in development and cancelled according to Gabe.
Just because Riot's attempts to expand League worked doesn't mean Valve just did not try to do the same thing. It's not like this is a shady way to run a business
>make more games and make them good
The problem is that dotard only care about dota and will only play dota regardless of anything else.
Remember when OW was the CURRENT THING and every game got a drop in player base during its free week EXCEPT for dota.
People need varied taste in games.
If someone just plays a singular game the whole time, I think their opinions are literally worthless.
For me, it's SMITE.
I have no horse in the LoL vs DotA2 race, but I will side with the DotAfags simply for how utterly insufferable the average Leaguefag is.
Smite is much closer to League than DOTA, while casualizing it even more for better and worse.
Paragon tried to copy DOTA 2 sensibilities.
>wiped off the face of existence
SMITE tried to work with League sensibilities.
>events well into 2023
The worst thing you can do with a MOBA is copy the same giants from 2008.
>Smite is much closer to League than DOTA
I literally could not care less
Yes, that's why I play it.
I don't give a fuck about your PROCs/second with your infinitely scaling AnalPussy Ratios. DotA has always been the bullshitcomplex game, no contest, to the point it's more ARTS than MOBA. If I want to crack out the encyclopedia before playing, because you can do some crazy shit like riccochet a projectile heal potion off some fat demons ass while it's casting a spell to let it become a minon, then I'd take the time to learn and play a character in DotA.
In SMITE, everything is straightforward once you know what you're doing. I don't need to spend 15 hours grinding out a rune page to equip, or figuring out how my onetrick main plays into a certain teamcomp. One game I'm playing Horus Solo, next game I'm upskirting Hera's fat fucking high poly ass in Mid (since SMITE is the only game with attractive ingame models). I can play whoever I want, and provided I know what I'm doing, I can build basically whatever the fuck build path or items I want. LoL is in a weird middle ground in that it will never be as competitive as DotA, and never as casual as SMITE; but wants to be better at both.
If I shoot something I want it to feel tactile / fun. Clicking on a PS2-era model in LoL feels shit, and being blinded by a bajillion flashing circles and effects feels like shit. Shooting a moron in SMITE is intuitive, and I can clearly fucking see who is doing what.
>copy the same giants from 2008.
No, it'd be taking one of those giants from 2008 out back and shooting it in the back of the head in a backalley to appeal to Californian Genderblobs and Chinese / Korean Ricecels.
I have not met a single non-insufferable LoL player in the last 10 years.
Wanted to get into it, and everything I've seen of it looks like it had a lot of heart put into it while it was kicking. Sucks that Blizzard is somehow worse than HiRez at this point.
>I literally could not care less
That's basically how I feel with MOBAs. For me it's LoL and HOTS for similar reasoning.
I'm fine with depth. I can play Space Station 13, Dwarf Fortress, DOS stuff no problem. But DOTA does not justify its micromechanics at all for me to care.
We need Heroes of the Storm chads in the thread.
That's because it was too good for this world.
Actually it's because Blizzard are bad developers
>didn't become the biggest ASSgay with the biggest e-sport scene
>e-sport scene dead on arrival, Overwatch 2 dead on arrival in general
>Blizzard holds onto it
They didn't want to maintain 2 live service skinner boxes. Basically how Epic cancelled everyone of their games after Fortnite Battle Royale, learning nothing.
"all hands on deck, this one game is doing well so that will be our whole company now"
Dumbest decision Blizzard ever made. I'm surprised Diablo 4 is even shipping.
Which games did Epic even have in development other than Fortnite? Unreal Tournament 4?
He's butthurt about Paragon.
Paragon (1st iteration) had actual promise, I liked it.
Then they remade the core gameplay several times for no reason and it got soulless.
Pragon, UE4, and some mobile game.
Yeah, basically. Reason being is that Fortnite failed *up until* Battle Royale. But they were unwilling to give their other games a similar treatment.
These games are already deep enough that most players do not have a proper grasp of the basics even in competitive. If you genuinely seen all the bread and butter has to offer, you're either lying or clocked 5000 hours.
>These games are already deep enough that most players do not have a proper grasp of the basics even in competitive
Thats just false. High mmr players are monsters who can play all roles at a high level and has mastery of basic and even advanced mechanics.
I said most. I am not referring to top MMR, and to be frank I do not care for that level of competitive. This is not a thread on competitive viability, this is a thread over why more prefer other MOBAs.
>Variety of different game modes
>Variety of different champs and playstyles
>Same comps over and over
I'll never understand it because competitive Overwatch is unwatchable. The only thing that makes sense is Blizzard is full of retards at the top.
I love Scylla and Charybdis
Dota players know they're superior and so they don't really care what lolfags think...the lolfags on the other hand are very insecure about their standing and are prone to shitflinging
Are we in the same thread?
>dotachud unironically saying this in a league thread
If you want to know how insecure dotafags are just look at this clown post.
League players know they're superior and so they don't really care what dotards think...the dotards on the other hand are very insecure about their standing and are prone to shitflinging
>all DotaMongoloids can do is parrot your posts like retards and have 0 actual arguments in favour of their so superior vision of a moba
go enjoy being held hostage by 4 slavs for 90 minutes
>dota games lasting 90 minutes
I can’t remember even one example in my several years of playing the game
>all LeagueMongoloids can do is parrot your posts like retards and have 0 actual arguments in favour of their so superior vision of a moba
go enjoy being held hostage by 4 pinoys for 90 minutes
>league games lasting 90 minutes
I can’t remember even one example in my several years of playing the game
Now look at my wife, Auroth
League of legends was more fun.
It isn't anymore, it just remains ahead by inertia.
Imagine if someone made a thread like this for Underlords vs Teamfight Tactics, and people argued for 3 hours over how they're "totally different and you wouldn't get it".
Would be pretty pathetic tbh
Lets just agree they're all the same game and go home.
Also check these digits.
Yugi poster, those digits fricking suck...
i am sorry
will comit sudoku
you should be embarrassed.
in Dota if you make a mistake you can get fucked really hard in League it's more forgiving
since people remember negative experiences more they are more likely to avoid Dota
More tits and sense of progression from unlocking characters plus not having so many characters right from the start makes the game more approachable for average person. Also simplified market experience since no useless donkey or layouts
matches are shorter and losing is less painful. dota matches often end up ridiculously one-sided.
>charcters look appealing despite the dykes
>goblin character designs
>the only cutie is a fucking mute lol
dota 2 has best girl though
Thats literally just bushwack + tarot fusion from HoN
how? his Q is a single target insta slow, his W is a mini dash, his E is a passive, his ult is just Gondar's track with added dps. none of those abilites come close to Hoodwink's
I'd still fuck it
Yeah we know how desperate dotards are
she's now a canon lesbian that has a new voice like dr. frankenstein's assistant
sorry bro your waifu is a dyke
>sorry bro your waifu is a dyke
League does try to appeal to the LGBT community.
LoL is Pokémon and DOTA is Digimon. No one want to associate with the bloated and overall uglier franchise.
League won Doturds
It was the first of the post-wc3 mobas to transition to f2p despite HoN being the better game
Because league is a chinese skinner box full of anime characters and 95% of the playerbase are from the 1 billion people chinese population?
China was the majority of the Dota playerbase for the longest time. They all migrated to League because it's objectively better. Keep being a sore loser and gaslighting yourself though
>China was the majority of the Dota playerbase for the longest time
This is false. Europe/Russia have always been the DOTA majority. Chinese always got stomped in DOTA pro play as well.
There's no point lying about this man. Dota was huge in China and just by cheer population would dwarf all the other numbers
You're full of shit. Chinks have never been into DOTA. League is literally owned by a chinese company and marketed heavily there.
in 2010 the creator of dota est. 50% of the dota playerbase was chinese
research on chinese playerbase:
then league blew up in asia in 2011 and 95% of them migrated
You realize we're talking about Dota1 as well as early 2 right? That's when it actually did have a significant CN playerbase. Obviously the bigger League got the more of them left but you insisting that it was never big there over and over just makes you look dumb
did you read the article? It has data to back it up in 2018 which corroborates the dev's 2010 estimate.
If not dont opine based on your headcanon thanks you dont even play dota so you are irrelevant.
China was struggling ever since the Wings Gaming incident.
Org owners are all kids of some oligarch, and if you piss one of them off, you piss them all off.
Orgs keep complaining that Valve always sides with the players and if you as a player cross them, you will get blacklisted from all the tournaments they organise.
The Dota scene is much more inorganic and sterile as a result.
It's a better game, simple as.
t. dota veteran
no burden of knowledge
no superfluous mechanics
if your team sucks you can carry with skillshots
straight to the point
Several times harder than dota
>No burden of knowledge
Retard. You think you're going to know how to play the hundreds of possible matchups properly without full knowledge of their kits
>No clutter or superlous mechanics
>If your team sucks you can carry with skillshots
This sounds pretty dumb since that applies to all 10 players in the game you're not special
>Straight to the point
I love when Dotards say their game is harder when 95% of their heroes are entirely point and click abilities+passives and the CC is so long you get AFK penalties. There literally isn't a way to mess them up. There's a reason a streamer got immortal in Dota and was hard stuck in low gold for months.
I love when Leaguetrannies say their game is hard when 99% of their heroes are entirely point and click abilities+passives and the CC is so long you get AFK penalties. There literally isn't a way to mess them up. There's a reason a screaming ragemutt got challenger in all 5 roles in Lol and was hard stuck in low gold for months.
>LoL match after 10 minutes
>Dota match after 25 minutes
LoL is fast paced and much more exciting than Borefest 2.
funny I'm watching a pro league match right now and it's 7 - 4 at 23 minutes
still faster paced than Dota.
you have it the other way around
>streamer that literally only plays dota who totally has no bias here
Same game. Same competition btw
>23 kills in 42 minutes
and this was your cherry picked example lol
It was the first thing I found on DuckDuckGo.
oh no no no this bro unironically uses DDG.
he unironically believes he has "privacy" on the internet
silence cia frankenstein control gangstalker
>lifted results are good
not the point but whatever
>Gragas, Kennen, Lulu, Xayah since 2017
Why don't they just ban these champs from tournaments for a few years? Absolutely boring.
>Meanwhile in Dota 2
>50 minutes into the game
>The kill score is 4 -13
Yeah I think I'll take a 24-32 game over a 5-0!
>picking Chinese games circa rice fields
its ranked, right?
League micro+Dota macro+Dota map+League characters would be the best game
Both are trash. League is a chink moba rip off. Dota fell off hard.
I tried DOTA but it seems to have absolutely 0 micro. I'm sure the macro might be slightly better, but overall boring.
Do you even know what micro and macro are? Because it seems like you don't have a slightest idea my dude
Walking in a straight line at a hero and point and clicking them isn't micro dotard
>LoL zoomers think micro means micromanaging your hero
Embarrassing. You've obviously never played an RTS in your life, what made you think you should comment on it?
Broodwar vet here, that's exactly what micro means. It's fine control over your army's movements and positioning, as opposed to "macro" which is your broad spectrum management of resources (mineral/gas acquisition and unit/base production)
Yes you retard, your UNITS, not your hero. There's no League champion that lets you control multiple units, that's the whole point.
I've seen others have expressed the same thoughts repeatedly, and came to the same conclusion when I finally tried it. Champs are designed for alzheimers boomers like Gaben.
It's just a better game honestly
Okay why everyone bitches about slavs in ASSgayS when the real cancer are turkish players. Holy shit they are dumb.
how did this thread move anywhere past lol being easier to get into/better accessibility
Question to veteran LoL players. Was LoL more hardcore and similar to Dota before they introduced comeback mechanics?
LOL used to have items such as sword of the occult and not filled with tower/spree gold bounties.
I've heard Faker say that he used to be able to have extremely high winrates in soloq in high mmr during the earlier seasons, but that is impossible to have such winrates these days because individual performance matters less.
People in this thread say that LoL is more popular because its more casual, but wasnt LoL hardcore and popular in 2013?
Faker is talking about games that include the top 200 players in the world, it doesn't apply to people outside of that range.
The reason you can't easily solo carry games these days is simply because players have improved. There are less things they die to, they know how to pilot their champs, they know their matchups.
Now there is an exception tot his rule, a massive outlier that has been acknowledged by Riot but will never be addressed: the jungle role. This role alone breaks the game, it's practically cheating because of how strong it is compared to every other role. I won't go into the lengthy details but the smurfs who play this role are the only ones with accounts you will see with absurd winrates and match histories CONSISTENTLY
>I've heard Faker say that he used to be able to have extremely high winrates in soloq in high mmr during the earlier seasons, but that is impossible to have such winrates these days because individual performance matters less.
100% true. I could hard carry in the old days with 4 shit teammates. Now it's impossible. I've tried some trolling on fresh ranked accounts, I pick useless non-meta shit and basically intentionally feed. My team will still win despite me going like 0/8/2. In old league if you got 2-3 kills early in the game, you would be a steamrolling monster, now you'll just get two shot anyway and give them shutdown gold.
Artificial 'hardcore'. Rune pages were fucking disgusting, tl;dr you had to play ~100+ games on a champion before you were actually playing the champion, and to an objective and statistical degree that a Rune'd champion was just objectively better than a freshly bought one. Plus, because the F2P monetisation was so disgusting, you had to really plan out who you would main and your playstyle with them. The meta was skeletal / didn't exist because it was hard as fuck to get champions rune'd up, so most people just picked a few notoriously broken champions that weren't affected much by patch-by-patch balance, but in turn the offmeta had a shitton of practice against them while nobody played into them.
But yeah, before cumback held everybody's hand throughout a match, it was 'closer' to DotA at the time, before the chasm widened around 2015. Warwick rework was the definable last gasp of the studio before it got drowned by the californians and all it's soul graverobbed away by the asians, nothing worthwhile from there since. The amount of white -> hapa raceswaps is genuinely revolting, they've just borg'd the game into their own.
>Artificial 'hardcore'. Rune pages were fucking disgusting
I remember buying a full armor pen runeset for garen and having like 18 armpen at level 1. His spin literally melted people. This was season 1 I. It was crazy how bullshit early league was but that was part of the charm.
Say what you want but Kongor would spank Roshan and Baron all the way back to Narnia
Roshan is a successful landlord and he owns TWO pits
Kongor would first kick Zorgaths ass and then wipe hes own ass with Transmutestein and gain rune of power (all runes), then he would enter NAZARETH (azeroth) and shit on Boromir
Played both a lot. Immortal in dota and diamond in league.
League is just more fun to play casually and with friends, simple as. A lot of the dumbed down and homogeneous hero designs make picking up the game as a casual and knowing what things do easy. But league suffers at high levels of gameplay because of that.
Where as dota is the exact opposite, it has a huge amount of things to learn and know before you can actually be able to play the game, let alone be "competent at it". But all this extra stuff added into the game makes esports really fun to watch which is what valves focus is on. And valve has done a lot to also make huge quality of life updates that make dota good, in terms of QOL playing league feels like a step back 6-7 years.
Overall both games are great, league is just popular because it appeals more to people who play casually with friends.
League/Riot also don't rock the boat too much. The biggest changes in the last like 6 years is what, Mythic items aka "you should rush this item first and you can't have more than 1" and the rune page overhaul. Dota's map has changed like 3 times in that span, and you have talents, agh shards, random buildings and shit etc.
If you take a 6 month break from League, the game will not have drastically changed for ANY role. Even the mini-jungle reworks, pets didn't really do fuck all. In Dota though, they definitely to their detriment fucks around and changes alot of stuff.
>the game will not have drastically changed for ANY role
This is a lie, you don't play the game. Junglers have digimon now. I hate it, but it's change.
It helps you do what you already did, it didn't even change routes for most junglers. The pets were more for new players to understand the role better.
I think it was a small powerspike for junglers.
On the offchance you could feed the pokemon as a mid laner, you could become scary, but it is incredibly difficult to do. It's not better, it's just *different*. There are a few QOL improvements they added, I'm pretty indifferent. I know DOTA added a ""new map"", but it's a new map in the sense that Fortnite added a new map. The game is fundamentally the 3 lane copy paste because the balance is such a delicate balance.
If you want meaningful change, don't play MOBAs sharing the DOTA 1 lineage. It is counter intuitive. I'd rather play the Arcade mode, rather than pretending "it's a whole new game pog"
How you play on the map can change drastically though by changing all the routes in the jungle plus all the added terrain. Making a map 40% bigger is a huge deal, plus you have the teleport buildings with zero cooldown that the whole team can use. How you play around vision when 3 minutes in the top lane and teleport bottom, gank, and teleport back up top changes how you lane. Imagine if the alcoves had a teleporter, everything about the early game changes plus later on baron/dragon setups.
>If you take a 6 month break from League, the game will not have drastically changed for ANY role
I agree a lot with this, dota was great when I had 18 hours a day as a NEET to play since it felt fresh every few months. But playing league off and on feels way better.
I forgot to mention, league also benefits from diversity of play. DOTA heroes have really unique abilities, but most of your actual moment to moment play is defined by auto attacks. Since you oom so fast and cool downs are so long, you get those punctuated moments of interesting play, but everything outside that, all heroes are basically the same. In league, with low cool downs and low mana cost, you're performing your heroes unique actions much more frequently. This plays a huge part in the gameplay feeling more interesting over time (LoL tends to have much higher retention rates over the long term and this is a.huge reason why)
>Since you oom so fast and cool downs are so long, you get those punctuated moments of interesting play, but everything outside that, all heroes are basically the same
That hasn't been true for like 5 years, dude. You can spam spells more often in Dota now than even LoL.
There's so much free mana and stats in Dota now that it's nearly impossible to run out of mana. And if you WOULD run out of mana there's items that lets you instantly get mana, a courier you can send to get mana regen pots and more.
It does not sound like you've played LoL recently. The entire genre is trending in this direction, yes, but league still leads the pack with ability spam
>trending in this direction
Its always been this direction outside of Dota 2, for like 10 years. Mobile MOBAs are all spammy shit. Honestly the only way Ill go back to a moba is if it goes to consoles and I can use left analog stick to move, right stick to aim shit. I don't have patience for playing a PC MOBA and I won't touch the phone ones. Wild Rift on consoles when
How is Primal Beast a League hero? Or how is cookie granny a League hero, maybe abilities but the visual design is far from League.
>How is Primal Beast a League hero? Or how is cookie granny a League hero, maybe abilities but the visual design is far from League.
Both of them are HoN designs, but the people calling them league heroes are all new dota players who never played the greatest assgays of all time.
>There's so much free mana and stats in Dota now that it's nearly impossible to run out of mana. And if you WOULD run out of mana there's items that lets you instantly get mana, a courier you can send to get mana regen pots and more.
You are not playing dota actively, this has been patched out in the recent major update.
>this has been patched out in the recent major update.
>now there's only 4 mangos and 4 clarities at start!
>lets ignore that the stat bloat is even worse tho
Are you retarded? Even as a pos3 player that plays STR heroes with little INT gain I never run out of mana even if I spam it in lane. Meanwhile in LoL if you run out of mana in lane you're fucked, in Dota there's endless of solutions.
>Just send mana regen item to you
>grab the lotus
>buy early mana boots
>send clarities/mangos now and then
>stick giving free mana in every lane
>all heroes have really high base mana regen now thanks to stat bloat
>neutral items that gives mana
The list goes on and on.
Spamming clarities is no longer an option, which hurts many heroes that rely on buying a bunch of clarities to farm. It really changes the dynamic of the farming game for many strong heroes. Illusion carries suffer a lot, because they want movement speed or stat neutral items, not mana-related ones. They also don't want to buy any mana items.
Storm Spirit will now buy every clarity in the game for the first 25 minutes.
It changes the dynamic a lot.
Which illusion heroes?
Naga's illusions barely cost any mana and she will have high mana regen because the items she build anyways, same with PL you can just spam you lance in lane freely and then you don't need mana for your illusions. You never see any illusion hero run out of mana.
There's mangos and clarities restocking all the time in the shop, only if you have an undying in your team will you run out of like mangos in stock.
And that is not even taking into account at min 7 you will gain a neutral item and you can choose to have a mini-mana boot item or an item that gives you more mana regen with enemies hit you.
>How is Primal Beast a League hero? Or how is cookie granny a League hero, maybe abilities but the visual design is far from League.
Mobility ability - Check
AoE farming ability - Check
Skill shot kind of ability - Check
Stop acting like you've played old Dota, zoomer.
>Stop acting like you've played old Dota, zoomer.
Nobody is talking about "le old dota", we are talking about Heroes of Newerth. A game nothing like dota.
>but the people calling them league heroes are all new dota players
Yes? Dota is a very old game at this point. There can be new players, even if they only played for 3 years.
>Which illusion heroes?
You don't even skill illusions as TB at start, and by the time you start doing your illusion spam you have more mana than you can spend.
>You don't even skill illusions as TB at start
You are playing the hero wrong, your goal with Terrorblade is to put as little points into anything but illusions. You want to get as many points as possible in there, so you reach the point where 2 illusions can kill a hard camp as quickly as possible.
wtf but the most popular skillbuld is 1-3-3-2-2-2-2. Without illus you're not gonna farm anything.
Also you rarely ever use illusions at lane, and once you have enough levels and points on illusions to go and afk farm jungle Mana won't be an issue at all because the illusion ability is cheap to use
You also have a stick, neutral item, threads so you can thread swap, lotus you can take. There's endless amount of resources you can use to easily never run out of mana as Naga and you never will.
Just watch Grubby play Naga, he never once runs out of mana while having illusions up 24/7, and he sucks at the game.
>the items she build anyways
You don't really see Naga buying Orchid first. At least I don't.
You want to press both manta and mirror image every time you have them available. If you are not doing that you are playing the hero wrong. And if you do that you will find yourself running out of mana constantly.
Terrorblade same thing, you want to press Conjure Image every time you have it and you want to press manta every time you have it, with no exceptions. You WILL run out of mana if you do that, unless you spam clarities or buy items that give you mana regen, which you do not want to do, because they don't offer stats you want.
It is a holistic nerf to illusion heroes. Chaos Knight doesn't care, because his cooldown is too long and PL only has manta to spam, not also another illusion generating spell.
It affects every hero that wants to press a button that cost mana to farm constantly.
>Mobility ability - Check
>AoE farming ability - Check
>Skill shot kind of ability - Check
Ah, my favorite league of legends hero, Ember Spirit.
Ember would be pretty disgusting in League, searing chains AOE poke plus being able to bolas a screen away. Watching pro League and how Baron/Dragon fights break out, Ember would be so fucking disgusting
That's nothing, imagine Void Spirit.
now imagine if they add Tinker + his new Dash ability
On Naga you build stat items like Manta, Skadi, threads, diffu/orchid. You also get stick obviously.
She also has a quite high INT gain for a agi hero, at lvl 6.
AND IF you would still have mana problems at start you can just pick occult bracelet or arcane ring for infinite mana, and because this is nu-dota you now have a free courier that you can send clarities whenever you want if you would ever get low on mana to freely spam illusions.
And her mirror image is cheap as fuck to use and by the point you have manta you have enough mana regen to spam both all the time.
Yes, that is obvious. But just because you have manta skadi or something doesn't mean you can press your 2 illusion buttons off cooldown.
Which you can't with just manta or even manta skadi. That is my point, you used to spam clarities well into the 30 to 40 minutes of the game, because you spend so much mana and you do not buy any regen.
With the clarities nerfs, it affects you in that you can't spam clarities as much early on, especially if you have other heroes that want to do that.
Feels like a second job
>my toy better than your toy
it's like a bunch of monkeys screeching at the zoo.
ASSgayS and their literal babby tier bickering.
At least it's about video games for once. A whiny game design thread a day keeps the identity politics archived.
yes a video game thread about a dead as fuck topic.
that doesn't make it better than /vpol/, twitter, or off topic threads.
I think it's palpably better, even if 70% of this thread is bait.
HoN had motherfucking Samuel L. Jackson as the announcer.
what does Dota 2 have?
what does LoL have?
what does HOTS have?
what does Smite have?
>what does Dota 2 have?
A rick and morty announcer.
>what does Smite have?
Bob Ross vs Optimus Prime. Also Sun Wukong is voiced by Goku.
why does he make Tim Sweeney, Riot, and TF2fags seethe so much?
quake announcer, cave johnson, the scientist from half life and maybe some others.
I just checked and the line are still there in the default announcer
They're from UNREAL TOURNAMENT. NOT QUAKE.
>Avatar the Last Airbender
>Classic Nickelodeon (Invader Zim, Rocko etc)
>Star-studded Western VA cast, including but not limited to Goku, Eggman, Classic Luigi and Geralt of Rivia's only other major VA roles in all of vidya.
If you're talking crossovers, Smite has the competition so fucking beat that it's not even close.
Smite has fucking Cthulhu in it as well. Literally everything is in Smite.
Too bad the way skins are unlocked in smite is fucking cancer.
why is mcdonalds more popular than other higher quality restaurants?
simple, easy, cheap, and lots of marketing
Valve and Campo Santo can't make good video games, EVERY single update makes the game worse and worse and worse and barely any old player still plays the game because it's such a different game now.
They are turning the game more and more into LoL, so might as well just play LoL.
>They are turning the game more and more into LoL, so might as well just play LoL.
This has NEVER been true and in fact, current dota is the further it can be from LeL right now.
Yes peopel with that opinion just played in the beta or worse, they only played dota 1 and their view on everything is basically just ughhh everything sucks I wish everything was back like it used to be my life would be so much better....
>Bloat HP and Mana regen so you can spam spells even more so than in League when Dota was all about methodical gameplay and being careful when using spells because after 2-3 you get OOM
>Do EVERYTHING they can do design the game to be a lot faster paced and BROOOOL so they cater e-sport gayry
>stream lining roles that they have dedicated roles you have to play now
>nearly every new hero released is like they are straight out from LoL, both gameplay wise and design wise
>making everything more convenient when and removing "tedious" stuff when that was the stuff that made Dota stand out from LoL
Fuck off zommers
lining roles that they have dedicated roles you have to play now
Sorry anon, but release support MK and P3 Medusa were broken and had to go
every new hero released is like they are straight out from LoL, both gameplay wise and design wise
Primal beast (so primal it doesn't even has a name) are fucking simple and not complicated.
>Fuck off zommers
Probably older than you.
Some offlane heros have too high innate HP regen yes. Like you can go to lane with Axe with 0 regen and you still have 5hp/s and can rush ring of health and then you have 10+ regen...... But mana not really. Having your own courier just made it easier to deliver regen.
for me its mobile legends:bang bang
much better than dota and LoL, higher skill ceiling and also easier to get into
t. zoomer chang
Higher production level esports events
>RTS babbies claim that RTS players are so much better and are micro gods
>The second best WC3 player in the world and world RTS champion, Starcraft 2 pro and more starts playing Dota
>after 9 months of playing daily for 8h per day he's still average rank
>this is despite him spamming the single most Meta/OP heroes of the patch
>never once has he tried to play any hero that requires micro or is difficulty to play
Come on now.
I liked that moment where he got BTFO'd (even played his best hero) by a bunch of washed up pros during that charity stream.
once has he tried to play any hero that requires micro or is difficulty to play
This is extremely lame. I thought the reason he was so popular was just because he demonstrated god tier rts microskills in his games. Then I watched a game and was bored out of my mind.
Just thinking about Dota 2 gives me PTSD
playing assgays used to be fun when everyone had 0 idea what to do, what to build. everyone just picked whatever they liked because it looked cool
Same reason hero shooters became unfun black holes. Sweaties took over breaking the meta down into a science, trying to turn Casual into bootleg competitive, using lingo they stole from League and DOTA flaming their teammates.
If I ever make a multiplayer game, it is my mission statement to filter these subhumans one way or another.
Today, someone in D2 claimed my mom is sucking his cock.
It was a good day.
>it's another 500 post thread of retards talking about how controlling 1 WC3 hero with no macro is so hard
Do all mobabbies have brain damage?
If it is so easy, go get yourself a couple million dollars.
Beating the best players in the world =/= the game being difficult.
No one here being able to beat Usain Bolt in a race doesn't make running difficult.
league has sexxo
This sums up Dota now vs Dota before
It was always the taking turns though, you can sift through old Dotabuff winrates. I think now though, the disparity from how strong a 50% winrate and a 45% winrate hero is bigger than ever. You just had 5th pick potential to have a perfect game, while REAL broken is 1st pick and still too damn strong to counter
LoL does not have ability draft so it's objectively inferior
i dont really have a dog in this race but i prefer whichever game has more cute mute girls
I will give Dota this, Marci is way more enjoyable to play than Sona, she is a fucking abomination by comparison.