Why is the singleplayer FPSRPG genre so underutilized?

Why is the singleplayer FPSRPG genre so underutilized?

You have a few games that fill the niche of "here's a (relatively) open world with enemies, loot, quests, lots of guns to collect, and some sort of progress system". There's basically the modern Fallout games, the Far Cry games though they're normie trash, and an assortment of STALKER mods.

Is this the curse of the modern multiplayer environment? I just want comfy gun autism without the tryhardiness of online play.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is this the curse of the modern multiplayer environment?
    Yes.
    And console gayry that has diminished "RPGs" into "here's a bunch of upgrade trees and magical numbers to ruin your gameplay".

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    FPS players don't want a single player experience unless it's a 3 hour COD campaign sop they can play it and then complain about it for the next decade

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    fps games are more oriented into realism than fantasy, so you can't just rise stats number and making it feel right. Like kill 10 rats to make your 9mm bullets fly faster.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Whenever I played the Vermintide games, I always thought to myself "this would be better as a singleplayer game with leveling and without horde waves". Would love a singleplayer fantasy fps rpg.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shooters don't blend well with progression systems.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Progression could be something as simple as getting better gear that allows you to take on more dangerous areas.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >better gear that allows you to take on more dangerous areas
        like what, environmental protection? If gear would unlock new areas, then might as well just lock them behind story progression, or even literal keys tbqh.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Seriously: Do you play games at all?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Shooters don't blend well with progression systems.
      Yeah, because Deus Ex and Stalker are such terrible franchises, this really can't work!
      Fucking retards.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Deus Ex isn't a shooter, have you even played it? Shooting is in fact the worst part of the game, and in fact illustrates the problem with tying the shooting to skills - it just makes it so that until you level up, the shooting is just unfun garbage.
        >Stalker
        Absolutely not an RPG.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Deus Ex isn't a shooter, have you even played it?
          You are absolutely fucking retarded.
          >Absolutely not an RPG.
          Nobody said it is. You are an absolute fucking retard.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So not only you haven't played it, but you didn't even bother reading what the thread is about. Stop posting you absolute moron.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Kid, fucking stop.
              A) Deus Ex is an RPG shooter/stealth game hybrid. You are the only one bitching and whinning about how totally unacceptable it is for a game to have shooting mechanics that aren't 100% twitch based - you are the one who hasn't played the game because you are a console player mongoloid.
              B) progression systems =/= RPG systems, you mongoloid.

              You don't understand basic terminology, and you can't play shooter/RPG hybrids because it's not console instant gratification enough for you, and you literally can't even figure out how gear-based progression systems could work to soft-gate player exploration, or why that could be beneficial to the experience: You are a fucking RETARD who does not even fucking play games.
              You were too dumb to play DX, you didn't even fucking TRY stalker, you need to shut your fucking mouth and let actual fucking adults talk.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                leave this board.

                Fuck off you retarded commies. This is a RPG thread, fucking act like it, stop mentioning non-RPG games.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What is a RPG?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Fuck off you retarded commies
                I see I hit a nerve there, kiddo.
                Just fucking think ahead a little next time. Trying to insinuate that other people haven't played DX when your own point is "DX's shooting isn't completely twitch-based so that makes it unplayable" is just a really stupid strategy - don't fucking admit you are too stupid and ADHD for a game that you also want to use for your pseudo-elitist bragging.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the thread is about FPSRPG, which Deus Ex actually is.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >thinking stalker is a game that requires some degree of intelligence
                im gonna have to potentially disagree with that my man

                SoC is 90% a shallow ass game, with no relevant progression beyond how accurate your main weapons are and how much bullet your armor can tank, with a mostly linear railroaded main quest alongside tons of shitty fetch quests. The game has no proper sense of atmosphere and the world is almost entirely filled with gunfights every couple dozen steps. The kind of person you're describing would dislike every single aspect of DX gameplay, but the only thing keeping them from enjoying SoC is the graphics.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              leave this board.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Absolutely not an RPG.
          Literally more of a role playing game than Fallout 3. Hate this normalfag meme of incrementing numbers = roleplaying.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            stalker is absolutely not an rpg, unless you're the kind of scum who loves skyrim

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well, let us all know what is YOUR definition of RPG then.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              does it needs to be a DVD menu simulator to be considered a RPG?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Literally more of a role playing game than Fallout 3.
            It's not. Being a good game =/= being an RPG.
            >Hate this normalfag meme of incrementing numbers = roleplaying.
            Character stats are literally what defines an RPG, and it's actually normies that deny this.

            Here is a problem. Insecure, braindead retarded normies (e.g. YOU) have vaguelly picked up on the notion that RPG's are often seen as a bit of a "pinnacle" genre - both in terms of gameplay (being associated with more complex systems and greater player agency) and story.
            So you stupidly started thinking that RPG = "like, the more cool elite games!"
            But then you started to realize that RPG's full of these weird numbers and shit that isn't instant gratification and shit, and that started to make you scared and insecure.
            So now you normies run around the place saying "My favorite game is an RPG!" thinking that will make it sound somehow automatically better, while also insisting "RPG's aren't actually about stats and numbers, stop implying that numbers and stats scare us!"

            You are the definition of an obnoxious, retarded and clueless normie.

            >thinking stalker is a game that requires some degree of intelligence
            im gonna have to potentially disagree with that my man

            SoC is 90% a shallow ass game, with no relevant progression beyond how accurate your main weapons are and how much bullet your armor can tank, with a mostly linear railroaded main quest alongside tons of shitty fetch quests. The game has no proper sense of atmosphere and the world is almost entirely filled with gunfights every couple dozen steps. The kind of person you're describing would dislike every single aspect of DX gameplay, but the only thing keeping them from enjoying SoC is the graphics.

            >im gonna have to potentially disagree with that my man
            Didn't say that, actually. Said that he is an idiot, and that he didn't play Stalker because he was too intimidated by it. Which is not the same as saying that Stalker is particularly intelligence demanding game.

            Then again, if your next point is going to be:
            >The game has no proper sense of atmosphere
            Then how the FUCK do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              you don't even understand what RPG means.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >you don't even understand what RPG means.
                I ACTUALLY do. As in - I understand what the term means, not just what the individual words that constitute it means.

                Explain to me how the FUCK does playing a role mean incrementing stats and leveling up?

                >Explain to me how the FUCK does playing a role mean incrementing stats and leveling up?
                "Playing a role" does not mean anything specific.
                A "role playing game" does however have a very specific meaning, and that is exactly the problem you don't understand.
                As for why? Saussure can answer that.

                meant to say, the game has no proper sense of atmosphere for vast majority of the regions in the game
                It's just constant firefights. The way the anomalies are placed around feels extremely arbitrary and dumb. The game tries to wall you off of going out of bounds with comically videogamey placed anomalies and instant massive radiation fields. It seems humanity as a whole in the zone is in an eternal state of conflict with bandits. Outside of a minority of sections like Yantar, Bar and some underground labs, the game fails badly at capturing a good atmosphere that is primarily enjoyed by people with fucktons of nostalgia goggles

                A good comparison is CoP. CoP lost the great atmosphere from the Bar, but the outside enviroments were much superior in that regard : humans act like real humans, there arent respawning bandits constantly, exploring actually grants you rewards instead of having stashes require being marked on your map before you can loot them, you have actual animals around, and the zone isnt a suHispaniciously linear railroaded enviroment

                You should actually play the game, and not just base your opinion on some retarded youtube video you seen once.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I ACTUALLY do
                can you explain what is your interpretation of the meaning of RPG then

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >can you explain what is your interpretation of the meaning of RPG then
                An RPG is a game based around playing as a character whose unique qualities and properties are defined by a set of abstracted numerical values, which in return informs or defines the range of his problem-solving options, and where the player gains control over how that character changes (as represented through those mechanical values) over time, corresponding to the narrative development of said character.

                Or to put it into different words: roleplaying game is one where player problem-solving options are RESTRAINED by the specific, mechanically defined translation of his character.
                The act of roleplaying is the act of adopting and respecting the limitations imposed by your characters properties (the mathematical values here serve as a way to enforce the limitation of your character), and co-opting his future growth.

                Or to put it even more simply: what defines an RPG is the fact that if you chose to play as a dumb person, you will not be able to solve problems in a smart way, if you play a weak character, you are not allowed to solve issues through your strenght.
                That is why the stats matter. Because they FORCE YOU TO PLAY IN A WAY THAT REFLECTS THE UNIQUE PROPERTIES OF THE CHARACTER YOU INHABIT.

                >Character stats are literally what defines an RPG
                Not this autistic shit again. Are you the same retard that said that Pathologic wasn't an RPG?

                >Are you the same retard that said that Pathologic wasn't an RPG?
                I have said that a few times before, and yes it absolutely isn't an RPG.
                Pathologic 1 and 2 are literally my all times favorite games, they are the best thing this medium has managed to create in terms of storytelling, atmosphere, and even player agency.
                But they are not RPG's. Not even very close to RPG's.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not an RPG.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Are you having a stroke there?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm going to drop the Ganker antagonistic language for a second.

                My understanding is that pen and paper RPGs had stats and levelling as a way of formalising rules and encounters, so that the DM cannot just arbitrarily determine outcomes, and also to encourage your playgroup to have different roles in the adventure. They weren't the focus of the game; the quest was.

                Videogames don't need that, as you can facilitate player choice and dynamic outcomes in other means. Pathologic does this, your actions, and your role in the game, affect the wider game world. What would you call Pathologic if not an RPG?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >My understanding is that pen and paper RPGs had stats and levelling as a way of formalising rules and encounters

                There are pen and paper RPG where you don't level up and don't have stat blocks.

                there's no set in stone RPG definition, everyone has their own interpretation and there's no leading body that decided what a RPG is and is not.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                See

                You are the only fucking retard here who's definition of an RPG is "a game that validates me much and much and tells me that I'm cool and unique".

                Here is the actual definition of an RPG: [...]
                What you describe is a SANDBOX. Game where you can "express yourself" and "be the chud that you are without anyone judging you" - that is a sandbox. A game that lets you do whatever you want, without restraining you by any formal grid or limitation.

                And RPG is a game that forces you to play as someone else than you really are - to see and experience the world through limits of a different person, with different views and abilities than you really have. That is the core of roleplaying experience, and yes, you need stats to make that work, there must be a FORMAL system that makes sure that different characters see the world differently, and interact with it differently.

                What you want is a masturbatory sandbox and keeps telling you how important you are.

                No - the stats were always the point. Finding out how to play to the best of your class, while also going through the process of having to ADAPT A ROLE of the archetype you chosen - that was the point.
                The point was trying to solve the problem as a paladin - a man restrained by obsessively strict ethical code - would solve it. This being in opposition to how the fat modern-day era neckbeard would.

                Creation, challenge and complexity in an RPG all stems from how it restrains the player.
                Once again, you want a fucking masturbatory sandbox where everyone keeps telling you how YOU (not the character, but you, the player) is the most important, bestest most uniques being alive.
                You want to "express yourself", like every basic bitch obnoxious normie gay raised by social media.
                You don't want to play games, you ESPECIALLY don't want to play roleplaying games, you just want to be wanked off.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My man you have extrapolated a whole lot of nonsense that I didn't say (or imply) from my post

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, you retard. I am working exactly with what you say. Meanwhile, you have not understood a single fucking sentence I've said.

                >An RPG is a game based around playing as a character whose unique qualities and properties are defined by a set of abstracted numerical values, which in return informs or defines the range of his problem-solving options, and where the player gains control over how that character changes (as represented through those mechanical values) over time, corresponding to the narrative development of said character.
                ACTUALLY FUCKING READ THAT FUCKING DEFINITION YOU BRAINDEAD RETARD.

                CHARACTERS. Not cars - cars are not characters - whose unique properties (as CHARACTERS - their intelligence, charisma, skills, history, traits) are translated into set of numerical values defining range of problem-solving (e.g. can you talk this character out of violence? Can you fix this machine? Can you cast a spell?), and which change and develop, with the mechanics corresponding to the narrative development but under player agency (my character has grown and gained new experience - he can now do more than before - but it is me who gets to determine what kind of lesson he learned - did he learn to be more charismatic (increase his char or speech or whatever), or did he just become stronger (increase his strenght or combat skills).

                HOW IS ANY OF THAT FUCKING APPLICABLE TO FORZA YOU MONGOLOID?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The character in Forza is the driver. His race is the make/model of the car he is in. His equipment is the engine/suspension/brakes/etc.
                Cope.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This actually might be the most pathetic cope I've ever seen in my life.
                Just fucking stay away from these discussions you idiot, if this is the best you can do.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You need to take a few deep breaths, calm down, and then reread this thread.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You lost the fucking discussion, kid. You should be the one stepping back and actually reading what happened. You literally completely lost the debate.

                Your only argument is "but stats are also present in other genres", completely and utterly failing to acknowledge context and mechanical role.
                Meanwhile, your "traditional" definition of an RPG is literally just "game that acknowledges me very very much".

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You sound a little upset, anon.
                You REALLY need to take a few deep breaths. It's not healthy to get this worked up.
                Take a walk and maybe when you come back you'll be calm enough to realize where you went wrong.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You sound a little upset, anon.
                You do realize that "U MAD" is a reply we make fun off, right? That it's not really a mature response to losing a debate, right?

                You can desperately, autistically repeat to yourself "But he used caps so he mad so I WIN" all you want, the reality is that you were wrong, and stupid, and we just proved that.

                The definition I've provided does not apply to Forza, until Forza starts implementing a mechanic where the player has an intelligence stat, and an engineering skill that define the statistical probability of success when tunning a car.
                Meanwhile, your definition of "RPG's are like, about EXPRESSION MAN" 100% does apply to Forza, since you can decide in that game to deliberately take an ancient classic race car to a modern race and explain how that is the expression of your character wanting to draw attention to the over-comercialization of modern racing sports. That is an "expression through playing a role" you have provided us as your definition of an RPG.

                You can express yourself through any game, it's a matter of creating a convincing justification for your actions. Mechanics do not in any way hinder your ability to justify your action as "an expression" of yourself.

                RPG is a game where you have a character stat set, and all aspects of your character are tied to explicit, formalized, mathematical models, that you have some control over, but that will limit your immediate, moment-to-moment problem-solving options.

                If a game tracks how strong this specific character you are currently controlling is, and determines your ability to brute-force a solution based on that, that is an RPG mechanic.
                If the game also allows you control over that stat develops resulting in the possibility of widely different possible builds - that is not just a game with an RPG mechanic - that is a full blown RPG game.

                If a game does not have a system of statistics defining your character and it's gradual growth, it's something else.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Holy shit calm down

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Kid, if you are not going to admit that you were proven wrong, just fuck off.
                Constantly saying "U MAD" makes you look a lot, LOT worse. It literally draws more attention to the fact that you can't put together an actual argument.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think you need to take some anger management classes.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >until Forza starts implementing a mechanic where the player has an intelligence stat, and an engineering skill that define the statistical probability of success when tunning a car.

                lmao that's so arbitrary, are you the RPG authority?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >lmao that's so arbitrary, are you the RPG authority?
                How old are you? 12, 13 max?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How retarded are you? dumb as a box of rock, full retarded?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You have not put together a single coherent argument since you claimed that "Forza also has stats, so that makes it an RPG", kid.
                Literally not a single coherent statement that isn't just "U MAD" and "I don't like it so it's wrong".

                I've given you the definition you were looking for. I've explained how it works and why it works, and why your's doesn't. I've also explained why it's your personal immaturity that makes you so unwilling to accept it, back here:

                >Literally more of a role playing game than Fallout 3.
                It's not. Being a good game =/= being an RPG.
                >Hate this normalfag meme of incrementing numbers = roleplaying.
                Character stats are literally what defines an RPG, and it's actually normies that deny this.

                Here is a problem. Insecure, braindead retarded normies (e.g. YOU) have vaguelly picked up on the notion that RPG's are often seen as a bit of a "pinnacle" genre - both in terms of gameplay (being associated with more complex systems and greater player agency) and story.
                So you stupidly started thinking that RPG = "like, the more cool elite games!"
                But then you started to realize that RPG's full of these weird numbers and shit that isn't instant gratification and shit, and that started to make you scared and insecure.
                So now you normies run around the place saying "My favorite game is an RPG!" thinking that will make it sound somehow automatically better, while also insisting "RPG's aren't actually about stats and numbers, stop implying that numbers and stats scare us!"

                You are the definition of an obnoxious, retarded and clueless normie.

                [...]
                >im gonna have to potentially disagree with that my man
                Didn't say that, actually. Said that he is an idiot, and that he didn't play Stalker because he was too intimidated by it. Which is not the same as saying that Stalker is particularly intelligence demanding game.

                Then again, if your next point is going to be:
                >The game has no proper sense of atmosphere
                Then how the FUCK do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

                You want to pretend you like and play RPG's because you think that is more "elite and serious gaming", but you can't play actual RPG's because numbers and stats scare you.
                That is why you refuse to accept what RPG's are - your irrational clinging to the prestige of the label combined with your unwillingness to learn deal with it's less accessible elements.

                There isn't anything more to discuss here.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not even the anon that said forza has stats lmao

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm not even the anon that said forza has stats lmao
                Then what the fuck are you doing here? Do you have any point at all? Or are you literally JUST here to be an obnoxious pest?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The later and it works.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The later and it works.
                "It works" how?
                You proving that you can be annoying? Yeah, great achievement. You are annoying. Congratulations on proving you are on par with a cockroach, I'm sure it's a highlight of your life.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Forza is a RPG

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >reveals himself to be on par with a cockroach.
                >actually continues to actively confirm that.
                Are you proud of being less than moron, kid? You want us all to see that, acknowledge that you are a shitstain that literally only annoys people by his existence?
                How pathetic is your life when that is an ACHIEVEMENT to you?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Forza is a great RPG

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I guess "unfanthomably pathetic" is the answer to my question then.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Forza

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You do realize that you are "trolling" me by admitting openly that your best is on par with what mold can achieve, right?

                The point of trolling someone is to make them lose their dignity. Not to throw all of your away and make the other feel really sorry for you.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                F O R Z A

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm gonna be honest with you: At this point I feel like me replying to is may be the only thing keeping you from straight up killing yourself, so I'm going to do the responsible thing and keep replying for a while.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                FORZA MOTORSPORTS

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                nta
                he's wasting your time and making you seethe by just typing forza
                i'd say he's successfully trolling

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >he's wasting your time and making you seethe by just typing forza
                He is wasting his time more than mine, so I don't see how that is an accomplisment.

                >If a game tracks how fast this specific car you are currently controlling is, and determines your ability to outrun the competition based on that, that is an RPG mechanic.
                >If the game also allows you control over that stat develops resulting in the possibility of widely different possible builds - that is not just a game with an RPG mechanic - that is a full blown RPG game.
                sounds like Forza is an RPG lmao

                See

                >Multiple people have said that the point of an RPG is to play the role of a character, and interact as that character in the world and narrative of the game.
                That is literally the exact same thing, you mongoloid. It's also not a mechanically defined concept AT ALL, and it literally applies to 90% of all videogames ever made, completely fails to explain why only a specific subset of games that allow you to do this are being specifically labeled as RPG's.

                Being an RPG means that the game has certain specific MECHANICAL features. Unlike you, I can define them, in a way that correctly explains how the term is used in practice.

                Vapid, literally meaningless "you play a role" and "interact with things" does not define or explain anything. You can play a role of a merciless demon killer in Doom, interact with the world in an appropriate, character-fitting way (murdering every demon) and thus move forward the narrative of the game.
                By this retarded definition, Doom is an RPG.

                I have countered the Forza argument, clearly and plainly. In Forza, my ability to drive the car isn't governed by my avatar's "agility stat" or "driving skill". My ability to tune the car isn't depending on my avatar's intelligence and tunning skill. I can't go and build a character that is really bad at driving, but really good at bartering with cars, there are no builds of any sort for my character because it's not an RPG - there is no formalized, abstract mathematical representation of the (range) of different character-builds the game permits.

                But I CAN "play a role" of a driver (hell, I can invent a complex backstory, start only using certain cars because according to my head-cannon those are favorite of my avatar etc...) and interact with the world as such. So Forza fits the RPG by your definition.

                You indeed play a role in Forza. And you indeed interact with the world and narrative.
                There really isn't anything to discuss here. You are wrong, I've already proven that.

                This has been answered, you are just crying at this point and saying NUH UH, NUH UH! at this point.
                Now YOU explain how playing a driver in forza is not "Playing a role", and chosing to complete various forms of activities isn't "interacting with the world and the narrative", dipshit.

                Explain how by your shitty, retarded defintion, Forza isn't an RPG.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >YOU explain how playing a driver in forza is not "Playing a role", and chosing to complete various forms of activities isn't "interacting with the world and the narrative"
                The goal of Forza is always to win races, your role in the game never changes. As you said, you can headcannon all the backstory you like into the game, but it doesn't affect anything in the game world. A good RPG lets you fundamentally change what you are doing in the game. In Forza you don't have the option to say, sabotage the event as an environmental campaigner, or rig different races in a betting scandal, or use racing to help out the poor village you started from. You just race

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The goal of Forza is always to win races, your role in the game never changes.
                The goal of Diablo is to kill monsters, your role in the game never changes. Diablo is not an RPG.
                I know I'm dealing with a someone who does not know the difference between a car and a person, but come the fuck on, how retarded are you?!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Diablo is a dungeon crawler

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh yeah, and I missed this but this really is a key to this "discussion":
                >A good RPG lets you fundamentally change what you are doing
                >GOOD
                This isn't about what RPG is, this is about what you personally like in videogames.
                Being an RPG is not a merrit or acomplishment.

                You aren't proving a definition of an RPG, you are having pathetic tirade so fascinating encapsulating your zoomie, retarded, normie social media groomed mind:

                GAMES MUST VALIDATE MUH CHOICES! MUUUUHHHHHH CHOICESSSSSSSSSSSSS.

                No. An RPG isn't a label to validate your pathetic insecure ass that needs to be consistently reminded how much of a unique snowflake you are.
                An RPG is a mechanical label for a game where certain clearly defined mechanical principles dominate the gameplay.

                You cannot distinguish between what RPG's are, and what your insecure pathetic ass needs games to do to keep you from offing yourself.
                That is why you don't understand what is an RPG. And you will never understand what is an RPG, because you will always end up finding a definition to validate yourself, rather than understand something independent of yourself.

                >isn't at all relevant to the game itself and it's mechanics don't play a role.
                Except how you interact with characters and how you act in certain situations is the whole point of an RPG, and how you interact with characters and how you act in certain situations is determined by the role you are playing. So being stubborn and quick to anger should absolutely have an impact in RPG.
                >There is a hundred different ways to play Doom.
                and which of them don't result in playing a merciless demon killer?
                >By your logic every game where you make some form of story decision is an RPG
                Yes, story interaction is big RPG element. Probably the biggest element in fact.
                >Dungeon Master or Diablo 1 or Legend of Grimrock
                Dungeon Crawlers
                >I guess not. Cars aren't people. They aren't even similar to people. But I am starting to undersand why you would cling to such a fundamentally RETARDED defintion:
                You are too dumb to tell the difference between a PERSON and a CAR.
                You are clearly too autistic to understand my point. Your definition of what makes a character in an RPG is so rigid that characters can be replaced with cars and the human stats replaced with car stats and your definition still holds.

                See above.
                This was never a discussion about what is or isn't an RPG. It's your pathetic insecure tirade about what you personally need - games sucking your dick.

                Case in point:

                Diablo is a dungeon crawler

                >Diablo is a dungeon crawler
                You will literally deny that one of the most famous, genre-defining RPGs of all time is an RPG, because FUCK how people use that term or why - you need your dose of validation, you NEED TO CHANGE THE FUCKING WORLD TO SUCK YOUR DICK CONSTANTLY.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >An RPG is a mechanical label for a game where certain clearly defined mechanical principles dominate the gameplay.
                You are lifting one aspect of traditional pen and paper RPGs and claiming that is the only part of the game that ever mattered. It's not, it just so happens that it was the easiest to translate into early videogames.
                >incoherent rambling about cocks
                Are you claiming that Diablo is NOT a dungeon crawler?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You are lifting one aspect of traditional pen and paper RPGs and claiming that is the only part of the game that ever mattered
                I'm lifting one aspect that all RPG games, and ONLY RPG games, share. That is how definitions work: By identifying the one necessary condition that all members of the same class of objects share.

                Every RPG has the properties I've described. From ones completely devoid of any story - like the good old Dungeon Master - to ones almost entirely famous FOR their story and nothing else (like Planescape Torment or Disco Elysium): They all share what I described.

                And this makes them clearly distinct from other types of games - like Sandboxes or Walking Sims, which your definition absolutely cannot do.

                Because that is how real human being use categories and definitions. To understand how and why people cluster things together, respect and explain the system that appears.

                You, instead, use the concept of "definition" purely as an excuse to go on and talk about yourself and your own, personal, insecure, fucked up needs and preferences.

                >Are you claiming that Diablo is NOT a dungeon crawler?
                I'm not disputing that term at all. I am saying that it is an RPG. One of the most famous, widely recognized, and influential RPG's of all time, literally the grand-daddy of the whole wide RPG tradition of videogames.
                You can call it's specific approach to level design "dungeon crawler" if you want, that is fine. But denying that it is an RPG is pathetic, and a perfect, 100% clear illustration of how far from respecting anything and anyone but your own insecurity you are.

                You are so narcissitic you literally cannot see anything else but yourself in this world. That is why you are literally incapable of this discussion. You cannot see the concept of an RPG existing in any other form than in how it relates to your personal preferences.

                You are broken as a human being. Fundamentally so.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >talking about insecurity, narcissism and being broken in a debate about videogames
                this is a very over-used phrase; but you are projecting so fucking hard

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >this is a very over-used phrase; but you are projecting so fucking hard
                It's clearly not that over-used since you still haven't picked up on what it means, kid.

                How am I projecting? You are the ones who said that an RPG is only as good as it validates your choices, and that this is what defines it as a concept.

                I've stated that RPG exists based on a set of simple, comprehensive mechanical systems. Ones that I (spoiler) personally don't enjoy all that much.

                So how exactly am I - when I push a definition based on a purely mechanical feature set that I don't even like - projecting here?

                No kid. You are just mentally deranged, and this is you last and most pathetic cope. Use that word "projecting" because it's supposed to diss the other person.

                You can't tell a difference between a car and a person, between an RPG and a sandbox, and between being right and projecting.
                You are really fucking bad at the whole "using language right", aren't you?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A) I'm not that guy
                B) Calling me 'kid' twice in an attempt to asset some kind of authority is making you sound even more insufferable and - ironically enough - insecure

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >B) Calling me 'kid' twice in an attempt to asset some kind of authority is making you sound even more insufferable and - ironically enough - insecure
                Kids REALLY hate to be reminded of their age, don't they?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                time for your donepezil old man.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It really hurts doesn't it.
                But I like you, at least you dropped the pretense and accepted the fact that you really are just a child, and rather opted for the "well at least I'm not OLD like you are." immediately.

                Just don't fucking expect respect next time when you really are just an obnoxious child bothering adults.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                lmao stop replying kid, you're embarrassing yourself kiddo.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > is a medication used to treat dementia of the Alzheimer's type

                KEK

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not him or anyone, haven't read a single thing in this thread, but I scrolled by on the main page and I gotta say, if he's doing the "kid" or "son" thing then he's wrong and you're right.
                Now I scroll.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >and I gotta say, if he's doing the "kid" or "son" thing then he's wrong and you're right.
                Yeah, because that is what makes the difference between being right and wrong, doesn't it?

                "He might have all the arguments in the world but he does not praise me and assure me of how adult I am so he is automatically wrong!"

                You could not be proving my point any better, kid. You really are just a narcissitic retard whose only relationship to reality is "how much does this personally validate me?"

                lmao stop replying kid, you're embarrassing yourself kiddo.

                A literal school yard "I'm going to say the word that makes people anxious in desperate hope that will annoy them!" trick, huh?

                Again - how do you expect people NOT calling you a child when this is your level of argumentation?

                Maybe don't complain about being called a kid when you literally go out of your way to act like one.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you need to calm down kid

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And you need to stop using a literal "U MAD" responses everytime somebody catches you up on your absolute bullshit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Damn it's easy to get a raise out of you lmao

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Damn it's easy to get a raise out of you lmao
                Again. I'm right.
                You are retarded and angry at me for being right.
                How exactly do you think you are succeeding in anything in this discussion?

                You do realize that being a pathetic retard isn't an achievement, right?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not even the guy you were arguing with to begin with. I just noticed how easy it is to tilt you and you've bit the bait.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I just noticed how easy it is to tilt you and you've bit the bait.
                Keep telling that to yourself while you act like a retarded monkey because I offended you by using the word "kid". You are desperately kicking back because I hurt your feelings.
                You can excuse that to yourself all you want.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Breathe through your nose kiddo.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You do realize that you are just proving that your entire contribution to this discussion is being obnoxious, right?

                Yeah, that is what you have to offer here. Being on par with a moron. You get to be really proud of yourself, I'm sure.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                touch grass

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, you can parrot obnoxious sounds endlessly. Real accomplisment, I'm sure your mommy would be proud.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                keep typing

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Guys, this is what happens when you argue on Ganker, you become retarded like this manchild

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Says the person who literally says "he might be right, have all the arguments and evidence, but he does not personally praise me so he is wrong"? huh?
                Cool. One of us here is fucked up alright. Wonder which one it is. The one who can make a point and explain things, or the one who has a mental breakdown when he hears the word "kid"?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                FORZA

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                bump

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Some RPG games have dungeon crawling stat based elements, but not all of them do. Lots of the early classic RPGs had it, sure, and it translated well into videogames which is why it appeared before other RPG elements. But to say it is the ONLY thing that defines an RPG is retarded and completely overlooks other aspects that made RPGs popular. All your seething about wanting to suck my cock is just silly.
                >purely as an excuse to go on and talk about yourself and your own, personal, insecure, fucked up needs and preferences.
                This is all you buddy. You stopped even trying to argue against me because you couldn't, and instead have been sperging out and name-calling. You are the most genuinely autistic poster I have seen here in a while

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >RPG's are like, about EXPRESSION MAN
                Nobody said that. Multiple people have said that the point of an RPG is to play the role of a character, and interact as that character in the world and narrative of the game. You literally haven't countered the Forza argument, apart from saying cars aren't characters - but they may as well be based on your definition, as its only the stats of the character that matters to you. Calling them intelligence, charisma, skills and traits is functionally no different from calling them acceleration, top speed, handling and region

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Multiple people have said that the point of an RPG is to play the role of a character, and interact as that character in the world and narrative of the game.
                That is literally the exact same thing, you mongoloid. It's also not a mechanically defined concept AT ALL, and it literally applies to 90% of all videogames ever made, completely fails to explain why only a specific subset of games that allow you to do this are being specifically labeled as RPG's.

                Being an RPG means that the game has certain specific MECHANICAL features. Unlike you, I can define them, in a way that correctly explains how the term is used in practice.

                Vapid, literally meaningless "you play a role" and "interact with things" does not define or explain anything. You can play a role of a merciless demon killer in Doom, interact with the world in an appropriate, character-fitting way (murdering every demon) and thus move forward the narrative of the game.
                By this retarded definition, Doom is an RPG.

                I have countered the Forza argument, clearly and plainly. In Forza, my ability to drive the car isn't governed by my avatar's "agility stat" or "driving skill". My ability to tune the car isn't depending on my avatar's intelligence and tunning skill. I can't go and build a character that is really bad at driving, but really good at bartering with cars, there are no builds of any sort for my character because it's not an RPG - there is no formalized, abstract mathematical representation of the (range) of different character-builds the game permits.

                But I CAN "play a role" of a driver (hell, I can invent a complex backstory, start only using certain cars because according to my head-cannon those are favorite of my avatar etc...) and interact with the world as such. So Forza fits the RPG by your definition.

                You indeed play a role in Forza. And you indeed interact with the world and narrative.
                There really isn't anything to discuss here. You are wrong, I've already proven that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >That is literally the exact same thing
                Not at all. If I role play as a character who is quick to anger and stubborn, that isn't me "expressing myself", that's me ROLE PLAYING.
                >You can play a role of a merciless demon killer in Doom, interact with the world in an appropriate, character-fitting way (murdering every demon) and thus move forward the narrative of the game.
                Except there isn't any other way to play Doom, there's no choice. The narrative of Doom doesn't change depending on what you do or how you play. Contrast to say STALKER, which lets you choose factions to side with, side quests to complete, equipment and weapons you use or Pathologic, which changes drastically depending on what you do as a player, or rather the role you play.
                >In Forza, my ability to drive the car isn't governed by my avatar's "agility stat" or "driving skill".
                "acceleration", "top speed"
                >there are no builds of any sort for my character because it's not an RPG
                Your character IS the car. There are absolutely different builds. If the only distinction between characters to you is their stats and abilities than there is no functional difference, but you seem to be implying that there is something deeper to characters in an RPG - in which case you're retreating from you original stance that "An RPG is a game based around playing as a character whose unique qualities and properties are defined by a set of abstracted numerical values, which in return informs or defines the range of his problem-solving options"

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >that's me ROLE PLAYING.
                You can do that in any game. How you justify your action isn't at all relevant to the game itself and it's mechanics don't play a role.
                What you are describing has no bearing or relationship to how the game operates.

                >Except there isn't any other way to play Doom, there's no choice.
                I probably should have not picked up an example from a game that is three times older than you are, huh?
                There is a hundred different ways to play Doom.

                >Contrast to say STALKER, which lets you choose factions to side with
                Mechanically irrelevant. By your logic every game where you make some form of story decision is an RPG. That makes Walking Dead or GTA "RPG's", but at the same time, games like Dungeon Master or Diablo 1 or Legend of Grimrock are not RPG's, because there are no factions to join with, no complex quests with multiple solutions.
                >"acceleration", "top speed"
                Do you not actually know what the word "character" means?
                >Your character IS the car.
                I guess not. Cars aren't people. They aren't even similar to people. But I am starting to undersand why you would cling to such a fundamentally RETARDED defintion:
                You are too dumb to tell the difference between a PERSON and a CAR.
                Can't really expect you to be able to make distinctions as fine as "sandbox" and "RPG". You literally aren't on par with 3 years old children.

                Seriously: what kind of severe medical disorder do you have? This is pretty bad. Not being able to tell a difference between a car and a person is... yeah, that is really fucking bad.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >isn't at all relevant to the game itself and it's mechanics don't play a role.
                Except how you interact with characters and how you act in certain situations is the whole point of an RPG, and how you interact with characters and how you act in certain situations is determined by the role you are playing. So being stubborn and quick to anger should absolutely have an impact in RPG.
                >There is a hundred different ways to play Doom.
                and which of them don't result in playing a merciless demon killer?
                >By your logic every game where you make some form of story decision is an RPG
                Yes, story interaction is big RPG element. Probably the biggest element in fact.
                >Dungeon Master or Diablo 1 or Legend of Grimrock
                Dungeon Crawlers
                >I guess not. Cars aren't people. They aren't even similar to people. But I am starting to undersand why you would cling to such a fundamentally RETARDED defintion:
                You are too dumb to tell the difference between a PERSON and a CAR.
                You are clearly too autistic to understand my point. Your definition of what makes a character in an RPG is so rigid that characters can be replaced with cars and the human stats replaced with car stats and your definition still holds.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If a game tracks how fast this specific car you are currently controlling is, and determines your ability to outrun the competition based on that, that is an RPG mechanic.
                >If the game also allows you control over that stat develops resulting in the possibility of widely different possible builds - that is not just a game with an RPG mechanic - that is a full blown RPG game.
                sounds like Forza is an RPG lmao

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >problem-solving options are RESTRAINED by the specific, mechanically defined translation of his character
                may as well argue that Forza is an RPG because the cars have different stats

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >may as well argue that Forza is an RPG because the cars have different stats
                LITERALLY THE FUCKING OPPOSITE YOU IDIOT.
                YOUR DEFINITION IS RETARDED, VAGUE AND AND CAN FUCKING INCLUDE GOD-DAMN FORZA.
                YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CLAIMS THAT RPG'S ARE ABOUT FUCKING SELF EXPRESSION YOU GOD FUCKING DAMN MONGOLOID RETARD.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What are you babbling about moron

                >An RPG is a game based around playing as a character whose unique qualities and properties are defined by a set of abstracted numerical values,
                accleration, handling, off-road ability etc.
                >which in return informs or defines the range of his problem-solving options,
                which races you can win in, where you can drive
                > and where the player gains control over how that character changes (as represented through those mechanical values) over time, corresponding to the narrative development of said character.
                how you upgrade your car, how you tune it for different races

                >Or to put it into different words: roleplaying game is one where player problem-solving options are RESTRAINED by the specific, mechanically defined translation of his character.
                your ability to win is determined by your cars stats
                >The act of roleplaying is the act of adopting and respecting the limitations imposed by your characters properties (the mathematical values here serve as a way to enforce the limitation of your character), and co-opting his future growth.
                have to race in a way that lets you utilise your cars strengths and overcomes its weaknesses

                Or to put it even more simply: what defines an RPG is the fact that if you chose to race with a slow car, you will not be able to win races by speed alone, if you drive a low slung sports car, you are not allowed to solve issues through your off road abilities.
                That is why the stats matter. Because they FORCE YOU TO PLAY IN A WAY THAT REFLECTS THE UNIQUE PROPERTIES OF THE CAR YOU DRIVE

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                See

                No, you retard. I am working exactly with what you say. Meanwhile, you have not understood a single fucking sentence I've said.

                >An RPG is a game based around playing as a character whose unique qualities and properties are defined by a set of abstracted numerical values, which in return informs or defines the range of his problem-solving options, and where the player gains control over how that character changes (as represented through those mechanical values) over time, corresponding to the narrative development of said character.
                ACTUALLY FUCKING READ THAT FUCKING DEFINITION YOU BRAINDEAD RETARD.

                CHARACTERS. Not cars - cars are not characters - whose unique properties (as CHARACTERS - their intelligence, charisma, skills, history, traits) are translated into set of numerical values defining range of problem-solving (e.g. can you talk this character out of violence? Can you fix this machine? Can you cast a spell?), and which change and develop, with the mechanics corresponding to the narrative development but under player agency (my character has grown and gained new experience - he can now do more than before - but it is me who gets to determine what kind of lesson he learned - did he learn to be more charismatic (increase his char or speech or whatever), or did he just become stronger (increase his strenght or combat skills).

                HOW IS ANY OF THAT FUCKING APPLICABLE TO FORZA YOU MONGOLOID?

                You are beyond braindead. You literally are too stupid to follow basic fucking reasoning.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no counterargument
                Okay!

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Explain to me how the FUCK does playing a role mean incrementing stats and leveling up?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              But thats the thing. When people think about an RPG, they think about a cool story where you can express yourself and make some cool choices with narrative impact. They dont think about some looter shooter like The Division.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              meant to say, the game has no proper sense of atmosphere for vast majority of the regions in the game
              It's just constant firefights. The way the anomalies are placed around feels extremely arbitrary and dumb. The game tries to wall you off of going out of bounds with comically videogamey placed anomalies and instant massive radiation fields. It seems humanity as a whole in the zone is in an eternal state of conflict with bandits. Outside of a minority of sections like Yantar, Bar and some underground labs, the game fails badly at capturing a good atmosphere that is primarily enjoyed by people with fucktons of nostalgia goggles

              A good comparison is CoP. CoP lost the great atmosphere from the Bar, but the outside enviroments were much superior in that regard : humans act like real humans, there arent respawning bandits constantly, exploring actually grants you rewards instead of having stashes require being marked on your map before you can loot them, you have actual animals around, and the zone isnt a suHispaniciously linear railroaded enviroment

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Character stats are literally what defines an RPG
              Not this autistic shit again. Are you the same retard that said that Pathologic wasn't an RPG?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Character stats are a crutch to make pen and paper RPGs work

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              you have spent way too much time here my moron

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >he doesn't understand the influence of pen and paper games like D&D and the reason that influence is linked to numbered stats
              oh nonono no no no

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I think Deus Ex only really sucks with shooting if you're not focusing on shooting as your main skill. Put points into pistols, rifles etc and you'll be nailing enemies with headshots pretty easily. It's not Doom, sure, but I'd put it on a par with vanilla stalker (I'd honestly prefer if Stalker had Deus Ex like shooting systems, rather than having bullet damage dependent on how long you aim for).

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sounds pretty similar to immersive sims, even though they're technically not open world they usually offer some exploration.
    Play Bioshock 2. It's good.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Neither Bioshock, Bioshock 2 nor Bioshock Infinite are good games. Bioshlock, if you will. Absolutely dull gameplay, level design so straightforward you can close your eyes, hold W and complete the entire trilogy, poor writing hidden under the guise of referencing hundred year old books, these games are the prime example of what's wrong with 7th gen. Bioshock, a game that would be shat upon if released 10 years earlier.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shooter fans were the only community who put up resistance against everything having gay RPG shit with damage sponge enemies that takes 5 years to kill because your numbers aren't high enough, whatever the fuck that means.

    I wish action game fans would have done the same.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can name like ten shooter games with gay rpg shit anon. wat r u talking about

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You mean like Cyberpunk?

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    just play tarkov

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      stupidly designed game for kids with addiction problems, same as fortnite and LoL and all the other zoomer trash where randomness comes into play on something important like loot or cosmetics

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Where are the lootboxes? where is the monetization? I can't keep making money by releasing a single player game.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because singleplayer FPS games are extremely easy to begin with so you "build" doesn't really matter. Realistic firearms don't have much variety. Wow this 30 round assault rifle shoots slightly faster than this other 30 round assault rifle. What progression do need when you can pick up a gun that will kill any enemy from the next corpse over?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Realistic firearms don't have much variety
      Confirmed noguns

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You have pre-ordered it right anon?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The gunplay looks abhorrent

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Already a masterpiece

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'll most likely buy it on launch but I don't understand the logic of pre-ordering anything, ever.
      Like, it's not going to sell out, there's not a limited number of copies of Starfield...
      Am I missing something?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        usually if you look on isthereanydeal there's a discount of 10-15% on the preorder somehow. For example I preordered Elden Ring on Fanatical for 52 euros, I seriously doubt that right after the release I would have found it for less. Aside from that I too don't see the point

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sorry I meant pre-ordering as in planning to buy, retarded I know

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Originally I didn't care much about it but then I thought about how it would be neat to play a new IP from Bethesda. There also isn't much coming out of Xbox this year so I might as well try it as one of the few exclusives releasing

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because when people do it wrong we get shit like Borderlands.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think big problem is usually that the devs try to dance between the game being a shooter or an RPG, instead of going all in either or. You can have great RPG elements while still being full shooter and vice versa, make good shootery but full RPG combat and still have action elements.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    CPRG is an oxymoron. There hasn't been a true role playing game made for PCs that even approaches the freedom of pnp roleplaying games with a good GM.
    No, having a choice between running an errand for a guy, using your charisma stat to convince him or killing him is not role playing.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      then What is a RPG then ? can you enlighten us? if I go by what you're saying, final fantasy are not RPGs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm sorry, I haven't played them.
        But if they're anything like all the CRPGs I've played you have a tiny amount of choices that in no way will allow you to roleplay anything but a character clearly set out by the devs to complete the Final Quest.
        A proper RPG would allow you to tell a questgiver to go fuck himself instead of forcing you to be keep taking shit from him. It would allow you to buy a round of drinks for everyone at a tavern, drink all night and miss the Big Thing just because your character felt like it. You understand what I mean? Following a set story with a set character is not role playing just because the world is ripped off from Tolkien.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >A proper RPG would allow you to tell a questgiver to go fuck himself instead of forcing you to be keep taking shit from him. It would allow you to buy a round of drinks for everyone at a tavern, drink all night and miss the Big Thing just because your character felt like it.

          so 99% of RPG games are not true RPG then.
          Hell even your favorite CRPGs are not RPGs!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >CPRG is an oxymoron.
            Are you too retarded to follow a simple conversation? That's literally my point. The only true role playing games are the pen and paper ones and CRPGs simply stole the name with no regard for its meaning.
            Yes, I've yet to find a single role playing game on PC. And yes, Baldurs Gate is not an RPG if we go by the true definition.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              your definition of RPG doesn't mean it is THE definition of RPG. it's like color, there's different shades.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My definition of RPG is just "a role playing game" a game where you play roles. Words have meanings.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You play the role of the main character in every games.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Is Mario a role playing game then?

                >you don't even understand what RPG means.
                I ACTUALLY do. As in - I understand what the term means, not just what the individual words that constitute it means.

                [...]
                >Explain to me how the FUCK does playing a role mean incrementing stats and leveling up?
                "Playing a role" does not mean anything specific.
                A "role playing game" does however have a very specific meaning, and that is exactly the problem you don't understand.
                As for why? Saussure can answer that.

                [...]
                You should actually play the game, and not just base your opinion on some retarded youtube video you seen once.

                >A "role playing game" does however have a very specific meaning, and that is exactly the problem you don't understand.
                Indeed, it means a game where you play a role of a character you set out to play as. That's what it meant before there even were personal computers and that's what it means now, despite retards attempt to change it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Is Mario a role playing game then?
                Going by YOUR definition yes it is. you play the role of Mario

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudeaorum, why are you so dense? Is the only way to defend your fragile positon to put words into my mouth? Imagine if a game master made you a preset script in every pen and paper role playing game. Things you have to do and say. That allows you zero freedom of choice and self-expression, which is at odds with the ideas of traditional rpgs.
                Which brings us around exactly to the crux of the problem, that's literally what games like Witcher are and they absolutely shouldn't be called RPGs but maybe hack'n'slash.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I have asked countless times what constitutes a RPG and not one single person on this thread has been able to formulate a definition. Do you understand how pointless your ramble is now?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                But I have?
                It's a game where you play a role of a character you've devised. Look at the first and true definition of role playing games in its traditional pen and paper sense.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                pen and paper role playing games are not really RPGs, they are improv with stats.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You are the only fucking retard here who's definition of an RPG is "a game that validates me much and much and tells me that I'm cool and unique".

                Here is the actual definition of an RPG:

                >can you explain what is your interpretation of the meaning of RPG then
                An RPG is a game based around playing as a character whose unique qualities and properties are defined by a set of abstracted numerical values, which in return informs or defines the range of his problem-solving options, and where the player gains control over how that character changes (as represented through those mechanical values) over time, corresponding to the narrative development of said character.

                Or to put it into different words: roleplaying game is one where player problem-solving options are RESTRAINED by the specific, mechanically defined translation of his character.
                The act of roleplaying is the act of adopting and respecting the limitations imposed by your characters properties (the mathematical values here serve as a way to enforce the limitation of your character), and co-opting his future growth.

                Or to put it even more simply: what defines an RPG is the fact that if you chose to play as a dumb person, you will not be able to solve problems in a smart way, if you play a weak character, you are not allowed to solve issues through your strenght.
                That is why the stats matter. Because they FORCE YOU TO PLAY IN A WAY THAT REFLECTS THE UNIQUE PROPERTIES OF THE CHARACTER YOU INHABIT.

                [...]
                >Are you the same retard that said that Pathologic wasn't an RPG?
                I have said that a few times before, and yes it absolutely isn't an RPG.
                Pathologic 1 and 2 are literally my all times favorite games, they are the best thing this medium has managed to create in terms of storytelling, atmosphere, and even player agency.
                But they are not RPG's. Not even very close to RPG's.

                What you describe is a SANDBOX. Game where you can "express yourself" and "be the chud that you are without anyone judging you" - that is a sandbox. A game that lets you do whatever you want, without restraining you by any formal grid or limitation.

                And RPG is a game that forces you to play as someone else than you really are - to see and experience the world through limits of a different person, with different views and abilities than you really have. That is the core of roleplaying experience, and yes, you need stats to make that work, there must be a FORMAL system that makes sure that different characters see the world differently, and interact with it differently.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes yes, link to your own post that completely stands against the ideas of a pen and paper role playing game.
                >And RPG is a game that forces you to play as someone else than you really are - to see and experience the world through limits of a different person, with different views and abilities than you really have. That is the core of roleplaying experience, and yes, you need stats to make that work, there must be a FORMAL system that makes sure that different characters see the world differently, and interact with it differently.
                Jesus fucking Christ, this is what happens when you go against tradition and established textbook definitions. Your off the cuff definition could mean literally any game.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Jesus fucking Christ, this is what happens when you go against tradition and established textbook definitions.
                Again, are you having a stroke here. I'm the one using established and strict definitions, you are the one who keeps whinning that numbers are hard and that it's all about your ability to express yourself and be a super special snowflake, you fucking mongoloid.

                YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DENIES THE DEFINITION OF AN RPG BECAUSE YOU NEED SOMETHING MORE INCLUSIVE AND OPEN MINDED.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Am I? I'm simply going by the traditional rpg, the pnp rpg definition and not "it has numbers going up" and "yeah you can't kill this guy by shooting him in the head, but it's an rpg you don't understand".

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What's your source on the definition?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not here to spoonfeed you, sweety. You're the one arguing against the status quo here and you must provide your own sources or argument your heuristics well enough that your posts will become a source in of themselves.
                That's what an academician would say if you really want to get coy about academic sourcing.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well the burden of proof is on your. Do your research make it sounds like you're truly retarded.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Truly like playing chess with a pidgeon. I just said you're the one challenging the status quo that's soon to be 100 years of pen and paper role playing games by musing about definitions stolen by computer nerds then doubly stolen by normalfags.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What status quo? YOU decided what YOUR status quo was lmao.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm simply using the pen and paper rpg definition that was perfectly clear before computer games muddled it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm simply using the pen and paper rpg definition

                Then where can I find this definition? it's not in the dictionary.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ok, not my fault you're too uninformed for this conversation.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh so you can't back YOUR definition of pen and paper RPG, alright. conversation is done. You are retarded.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Au contraire, it is you that's retarded here. Au revoir!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no it's you!

                lmao get off this board kiddo

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Quod erat demonstrandum if a third party decides to read this exchange.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                All these are better RPGs than any of your pnp rpgs. go fuck a dragon

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My upcoming ERP session where I fuck a dragon will be a better RPG than anything on PC.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Look at all these fucking soulless UIs

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Left to right, top to bottom
                >Fun, meh combat
                >Fun, meh combat
                >Fun, shit MC (but can be modded into kino)
                >Don't know
                >Dogshit
                >Kek
                >Screen full of numbers/10 (trash)
                >Generic ubisoft trash
                >Don't know
                >Should've been a platformer
                >Pigshit
                >Not an rpg
                >Don't know × 2
                >Kino
                >Great
                >Meh
                >Don't know × 4
                >Topkek
                >Don't know × 4
                >Fun but shit
                >Shit
                >Don't know × 2

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I posted that image and I can't even name any of the games in it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                we can still be friends you know. We could play CRPGs together.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If it allows me to
                >have a choice and face consequences
                >make different builds for my player character
                >explore an interesting world with loot and enemies
                Then it's an rpg to me. I wouldn't call stalker an rpg because it doesn't fill the first criteria but FO3 would qualify as a (bad) rpg even if it's narrative is retarded and nonsensical.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How does it not? If you attack a faction they will become hostile (and you need to do that to get on good terms with another faction). If you attack the military outpost they will enact revenge and kill the whole rookie village. If you don't save a certain NPC you won't learn about the path to the true ending and many other situations like those in all 3 games.
                So why wouldn't it be an rpg? I'd say choice is more limited in Fallout 3, even if just by a little bit.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Modern settings dont really mix that well with RPG mechanics. It just feels wrong that you cant shoot some random thug in Far Cry just because your is lvl 2 AK-47 does 30 dmg and not 100 dmg, like that lvl 5 AK-47. So you end up pumping 3 mags into some fag in a shirt. Thats really not that satisfying.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That only happens in Far Cry New Dawn and 6, because they lean too much into lite RPG garbage.
      All other Far Cry games you can 1 tap anything, unless it's an heavily armored enemy.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it's only roleplaying by correct definition if it means i'm pretending to be a man who is also a horse and a girl with a huge horsecock getting dicked down by another player with a different social and gamerules based build like a fairy with wings who'se smaller than me but absolutely dwarfs even me in cocksize and uses spear weapons scaling with dex as her build has genetic str limitations

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    fpsrpg is my favorite genre

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      some of the greatest RPGs right there.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's because it's the best genre.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Deus EX is an RPG. it says it on the original game box

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it's an ARPG, like diablo

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        still an RPG.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unironicaly fallout 76 is the near perfection of FPSRPG
    >its not singleplayer
    You are alone 99 percent of the time unless you do a popular public event
    >same old guns
    Theres a near infinite combination of weapons and builds and always changing minmax meta

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can't pirate it therefore it's shit.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The best RPGs aren't singleplayer tbf, if it was just an open world with some servers and modding it would be kino to RP in as a travelling trader or some shit

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    STALKER 2 soon, sisters!

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I heard that new Arkane game with vampires is meant to be a Farcry style thing

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because guns just don't work that well for first person rpg games.
    How do you reflect the dissonance between players expectations of how a gun works vs the RPG side of game that says the player character infact is not good with a gun. Do you just let the player aim up a head shot and then roll the die if they actually hit/miss or do you limit players ability to use the gun so that they cannot get the clash of expectation vs gamerules where headshot does not hit head.
    Modern guns are ironically too simple and complex at the same time to work well with RPG mechanics.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I seriously hope you guys at least pronounce Forza correctly

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Regarding the autism over what defines an RPG, I've always thought it a bit odd that people say the point of RPGs is that player skill should be subordinate to character skill, but then RPGs allow the player to make decisions that may be out of the character's knowledge when it comes to strategy, planning builds, etc. Sure, if you play as a dumb character you can't talk your way out of a conversation, but you can still make your dumb character pull off things that they shouldn't be able to figure out.
    Wouldn't an ideal RPG also make it so you can't plan your character's moves ahead unless they're feasibly what the character could plan?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      RPGs are about skills that you can level up
      That's it

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean that's the fairly open interpretation yes, I'm more talking about the purist's interpretation of RPG like has been argued in this thread.
        I feel like the pure/classical definition of RPG doesn't eliminate player skill from the game, it just changes the type. It doesn't matter how intelligent you make your character, if you're not good at planning ahead or strategizing then your character won't be intelligent. If you ARE good at those things, then you'd be able to play against your character's type (a low INT or PER char making uncharacteristically smart decisions).

        With all these things, the limitations of the real world get in the way, its why the pen and paper RPGs have stats and levelling in the first place. But you're absolutely right in that people abuse the defined mechanics of the game (see minmaxing). Its generally frowned upon because it takes away from the Role Playing part of the game, which is what most people actually play RPGs for

        I think it's more general than min-maxing or metagaming, like I describe above.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      With all these things, the limitations of the real world get in the way, its why the pen and paper RPGs have stats and levelling in the first place. But you're absolutely right in that people abuse the defined mechanics of the game (see minmaxing). Its generally frowned upon because it takes away from the Role Playing part of the game, which is what most people actually play RPGs for

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In response to the original question though I agree that there should probably be more FPSRPGs, but it'd be nice if there was a good way to make shooting more character skill dependent than player dependent.
    I think that the way something like Armored Core presents a good solution, where you have an element of auto aim that depends more on the stats of your AC's arms and FCS than on your ability to line up a crosshair with a baddie. I'd much rather that weapons do the amount of damage that they're supposed to and not have a level 3 gun do plink damage against a level 5 baddie. UNLESS the level could be explained as the difference between shot penetration and armor, and higher level enemies were more armored.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      fps/quakefag here
      that really sounds like shit to me

      if anything the actual aiming should be hard skill based of the player,
      every parameter around that can be tweaked (damage, movement speed, inertia, aircontrol, rate of fire, dodge abilities, ammo capacity, non combat abilities like charisma or bartering abilitiy, carrying weight, projectile speed)

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean, we are talking about an FPSRPG, not a pure FPS. I imagine to an Armored Core player that Front Mission or those Super Robot wars seem bad, but the point would be that they appeal to different groups.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          true

          rpgs are weird for me in that i like very specific parts of it, but I don't want to let go of control
          i want the part that lets you limit/specialize and develop your repertoire if you're skilled
          but i don't like it encroaching on my own agency through player skill and having the ability to grind to make the game easy without limitations
          just dicerolls are boring to me

          the roleplaying as in being a character interacting with a living world/story where your acts have consequences sound interesting, but games focused on it often cater to the above mentioned needs

          the only "rpg" i truly enjoy that is still considered an iffy pick as an rpg in the first place is xcom
          you don't rely on your own in world skills, you manage risk through dicerolls. but grinding has huge risk of penalty elsewhere

          I recently played Hard West wich had some oldschool pen and paper style world exploration, where you get the chance to acquire items and resources that allow you to spec characters with better stats and combat abilities, disallowing grinding forever for no penalty
          and even in combat the "luck" aspect was in part a resource to be managed

          it felt like the closest to a crpg that was still mostly made for my tastes
          not having what i don't care for yet still giving me a taste of the parts of a crpg I would enjoy

          to mention another semi similar game that i tried a year or so ago but didn't like as much was tactics ogre: knights of lodis
          it had the tactical aspect like the examples i mentioned above, but in the end it just boiled down to being a jrpg where you can just grind stuff.
          I still really put myself to it to finish it just so I can say I finished a jrpg once in my life.
          Even when I was still a little casul playing pokemon becaus that was the thing everybody played in the schoolyard, i never once actually finished one before last year.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Also more generally, I do think that making lower level guns do less damage is a bad solution. It makes some sense for weapons that rely on the user's strength like a melee weapon, but guns don't fit that mold. Which is why I think aim should at least be dependent somewhat on the character's skill.
        Then again I think Deus Ex's approach also works nicely.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          i'd say not go into lower/higher level with just damage at all
          but make higher/lower damaging guns dependant on class
          higher damage weaponry classes having trouble with skills elsewhere

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's the approach that Deus Ex, System Shock 2 and (to an extent) Fallout took - gun damage isn't dependent on your level, there aren't higher level versions of the same gun, BUT if you want to use a more powerful weapon effectively or at all you'll need higher levels in your skill for that kind of weapon.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't there a (ca)RPG? A Choro game? I know they did an RPG for tanks.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Guys, the more you argue this the smaller your willies get

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What about Racing Lagoon? It's a role playing racing game.
    I would venture forth and say that this, and Forza are the pinnacle of racing RPG

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Didnt many games utilize this? The newst Wolf and RAGE 2. Destiny, New halo is open world and has progression i think. Do you just want a muh realism?

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why is the singleplayer FPSRPG genre so underutilized?
    Are you smoking crack?

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I just want comfy gun autism without the tryhardiness of online play.

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because persistent open worlds like that are time consuming to make, and your product will have to compete against the work of Bethesda Game Studios who audiences have a much lower bar of satisfaction to pass than they do for you.

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