Wizards might be backing down

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-ogl-announcement-wizards-of-the-coast-1849981365

>Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast has apparently cancelled an announcement about its updated Open Gaming License for a second time this week. Inside sources at Wizards of the Coast tell io9 that the company is scrambling to formulate a response to backlash against the new OGL that has occurred over the past week, following io9's story about a leaked draft of the document.

>Hasbro-owned Wizards of the Coast did not immediately respond to a request to comment for this story.

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've been out of the loop on this. What were they changing about the OGL that set people off?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      basically shut it down so everybody who even remotely uses something akin to d20 has to pay hasbro (if they were a company) or ask them permision first (if they were poor particulars)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Basically attempting to take ownership of anything made under it, period, without much limits. If you homebrewed a setting and it got popular, guess what, Wizards can take that, put it in a sourcebook, and not even credit you.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >and not even credit you.
        Pretty sure they got caught doing that with art though
        Same as Marvel

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ah, well, artists are eternal punching bags when it comes to that. I mean more like just lifting whole settings, rulesets, characters, etc wholesale.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Ah, well, artists are eternal punching bags when it comes to that.
            The recent kerfuffle about AI art was kind of a lightbulb moment for me when I realized that musicians don't have to deal with the same sort of controversy because record labels and streaming services are a fuckton more litigious and lobbyist than arthouses are. Really gave me an idea of how little illustrators are valued, institutionally speaking.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Really gave me an idea of how little illustrators are valued, institutionally speaking.

              The only people who are valued, institutionally, are the ones that directly bring in value. No one buys a book because Joachim Hirsch illustrated it.

              If it makes you feel better, most writers aren't valued either.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Crux of Fate plagiarism or?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Several times over many years and even outside of DnD, MTG has more than a few art theft scandals for example, it's just it wasn't included as a clause that 100% of people would be subject to nor was there really much else on the market for people to get into instead. Nowadays that's different, there's trillions of different card games and TTRPG systems, so it was a really fucking stupid move to pull. Maybe if this was the 90s it'd have flew.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They own everything you make and can use it for whatever they want without paying or crediting you, and if you make [amount of money] you have to fork over [ruinous percentage] and also they're "unauthorizing" the old OGL.

      I think that covers it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They made it so grifters can't strike it rich with their shitty d20 supplement without paying royalties to WotC.
      Since everyone in the US assumes they're going to one day strike it rich, the grifters were able to turn it into a "WotC is punishing the little guy!" movement instead of just acknowledging that it doesn't effect 99% of people.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There is literally no reason why WotC should ever get a single penny out of someone else's work. Not legal, not moral.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >There is literally no reason why WotC should ever get a single penny out of someone else's work. Not legal, not moral.

          Except for the universal precedent of a company licensing out their work to others to expand on, and taking a fee for it.

          The problem isn't that they want royalties, it's that they want royalties ALL OF A SUDDEN. They created this atmosphere and ecosystem, and now they're changing it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            For me the real problem is that they can just yoink your game content whenever they want. that and the shutting down of SRD siites and rival VTTs.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >For me the real problem is

              The real problem for everyone is this... if they get away with invalidating the OGL 1.0a and 1.0... then they can just arbitrarily kill this one too and make an even more onerous 2.1 or 3.0 which says that you don't even get to publish your content, that they can require you to only publish after a 1 year review of the content by them internally and you can only sell your product on dnd beyond 2.0 market. This is the thing people are not thinking about. If they can repudiate 1.0 of the ogl. then they can, at the fucking drop of a hat repudiate 2.0 or whatever version they want and require you to use whatever version they want you to use. Let them get away with breaking this contract and they'll not stop. They need to be burnt to the ground and the ground salted and poisoned forever so that no other company even thinks about breaking a contract like this again, ever.

              If they get away with breaking this one, it will just enbolden them to see what other fuckery they think they can get away with.,

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But the game mechanics, which are what the 3rd party content is based on, are not the intellectual property of wizards. The specific wording of those rules and any original creatures or settings they make could be, but again most expansions aren't setting specific and could have the unique monsters reflavored into something else.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The problem isn't that they want royalties, it's that they want royalties ALL OF A SUDDEN
            That's a lovely argument in a vacuum. Yes, people and companies have a right to seek compensation for the use of their IP. That is a true and valid statement, legally and ethically.
            The context of this situation, as you have pointed out, is not so neat. It is the case that the OGL was a perpetual, duty-free license to use the IP. Now, after literal decades, they suddenly want to violate this perpetual license simply because "Well, we own it...", which is a direct violation of the perpetual, duty-free license that was initially given.

            That's not just fair business. That's called being a scumbag piece of shit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They made it so grifters can't strike it rich with their shitty d20 supplement without paying royalties to WotC.
        Literally no-one gets rich making RPG supplements. They made it so that if you're even remotely successful, you'll go bankrupt.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >literally no one is getting money from this
          >people who get money from this are...
          do you hear yourself?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        NOOOO I HAVE TO STICK UP FOR THE BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION THAT HATES ME AND WANTS TO RAPE MY WALLET

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >stop_criticizing_billion_dollar_company.fedora
        What does boot leather taste like, you actual corporate slave?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        corporate dick-sucking libertarians are the worst type of autists. how are your investments in crypto doing, gay?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This is not a libertarian position you stupid moron. Libertarians hate corporatism, which is a function of statism.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Libertarians hate corporatism

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'd very much agree with your position if so many self-described Libertarians weren't so keen on slurping cubic tons of corporate semen by the day.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >how are your investments in crypto doing, gay?
          gb2r & stay poor like the bitch you are

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're a gay.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine that you bought a pencil and drew something. And on thr next day the pencil making company knocks to your door, grabs your drawing and tells you: "You made this drawing with our pencil. We have all rights to it."

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        it would be hilarious if the paper company met them in my driveway and fought the pencil company

        and i filmed it and put it on youtube
        naturally everyone loves cringe shit and it goes viral

        and then they copywrite claim the video on youtube, and those sons of bitches still haven't fixed that neither. either way shit show, pls laugh

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Basically
      >We can use anyting made under the terms of this license any time for anything
      >We can change the terms of this license whenever we like with a 30 day notice
      And most importantly
      >The old license which we said was valid in perpetuity is now no longer valid and replaced with this one

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >>The old license which we said was valid in perpetuity is now no longer valid and replaced with this one
        Is this legal? I'm pretty sure licenses don't work that way.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's not going to go well for them, considering they removed this from their website about a week ago.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It isn't and they don't.

          Wizards is counting on scaring smaller companies with their legal team and infinite budget.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Is this legal?
          More likely than not no but it'd cost a lot of money to fight in court and you might still lose anyways so might as well just remove any SRD or OGL shit from your books since it'd be cheaper.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Shut up wizards. If you try it, your going down. We are not letting of the open game content we were given without a fight.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Shut up wizards. If you try it, your going down. We are not letting of the open game content we were given without a fight.
              Lol what you gonna do about it? WotC is going to take your precious free licence from you and you are hopeless to stop it

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And then they all jump ship to Paizo and its 4e all over again.
                God I cant wait until the ivory tower destroys WotC, it'll be beautiful. At this point neither D&D or MtG need wizards to keep going. Theres enough third party publishers/ secondary market sellers (or just proxy makers) to keep the core players going.. Hell it will be a net positve for the tabletop industry when Wizards goes up in flames and clears all the rotting undergrowth away

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Doesn't matter. They've dug their own grave, so any response from them, even completely denying ever wanting to update the OGL will be seen as pure damage control.
    The bridges have been burned down already, and it will take years to rebuild them, if they ever manage to do so.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      lol you and I both know MtGtards and DnDbabs will continue to greedily suck the shit out of WotC's sloppy anus regardless of how badly they've been abused, dont lie to me

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    my guess is they are trying to wait for the internet to stop caring before they go any further. wait for the outrage to die out and let people forget.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why won't people still care in the future? Or are they going to do this a few more times until people stop believing that they will, then do it sneakily?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        THey're waiting for the anger to hit a slightly lower register, so they can release a slightly less shit OGL and claim they listened - probably they'll reduce the percentage on monetary claims by some amount and just keep the IP bits, or maybe they'll try to say the old OGL products can be grandfathered out of the new one.

        The thing to pay attention to most of all is how they can take anything and make it theirs. That needs to be fought tooth and nail.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because this is being brought to you by former executive officers of Xbox Microsoft and they remember how Elder Scrolls "horse armour" went from reviled to accepted.

        They're anticipating the same trajectory with the OGL.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, one the supposed insiders on reddit flat out admitted that WotC doesn't care what the fans think and are just waiting for the shitstorm to blow over. They are going with this new OGL.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >on reddit
        cool. now go back

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Im starting to the think the conspiracy anons were right. Wizards leaked something awful they never planned to implement, so they can release something else that’s not as bad in comparison. It makes idiots think WOTC actually cares about their complaining.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sneaky and plausible.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing leaked, they sent the documents to creators with a contract to sign. It was straight up being implemented. People call it a "leak" because technically you're not supposed to publish legal agreements online for ethical, but not legal reasons. Never underestimate the hubris of corpo big suit pieces of shit

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Buy something
    >Have to pay a monthly subscription for the privilege to access something you bought
    >Only able to save one page at a time in an attempt to force you to keep a perpetual subscription
    Corporate greed at its finest. They are greedy from all angles, trying to turn this into the video games industry.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wow, Not even Warhammer+ is that bad.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You didn't pay for the content, you paid for the service.
      Maybe if consumers were less retarded this wouldn't be a problem.
      The irony is that this state of affairs happened BECASE normalfags bent the knee to anti-piracy rhetoric.
      Only way to prevent piracy is to create always online walled gardens.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        In what way is that ironic?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If consumers were adamant about ownership of what they paid for, they wouldn't give money to GaaS/SaaS bullshit, those products fails and businesses have no choice but to provide offline usable applications. And the reason GaaS was allowed wasn't because it's convenient for consumers but because sold it as necessary anti-piracy/anti-cheat. If consumers said "I don't give a fuck about preventing piracy, that's your problem. I want to be able to play my games offline and no lootboxes" they wouldn't have gotten away with it.

          The irony is the customers placed the wellbeing of the business above that of their own interest and are now suffering for it because businesses don't give a fuck about the wellbeing of the customers.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i agree for the most part but you're fucking retarded if you think the average consumer wouldn't sign himself into _aaS hell if it meant never leaving his chair to purchase a product again. people don't use steam because they disapprove of piracy or whatever, they do it because they can consume without driving their shitty car to the nearest gamestop.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wait, they are going to prevent you from reading more than one page a day? What the fuck?
      Otherwise I don't understand how they are going to stop you from screengrabbing all the data. Print Screen is a thing.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, but then you have to screengrab and collate over 1000 pages, which is prohibitavely difficult without a tool or the ability to code.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why would people assume they will have access to anything on a subscription platform once they end their subscription?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because ownership of the thing is not included in the subscription fee. The book PDFs are a completely separate transaction.

        If I purchase a book from you but you keep it in your house and force me to pay a fee to be able to read the book I bought, that's effectively theft and extortion. You're taking my book from me and forcing me to pay money unrelated to the book in order to access it.

        You SHOULD still be able to access the books you've bought without a subscription. This is simply a newer anti-consumer practice that the laws haven't caught up with because no one has made a big stink about it yet.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're going to double down on some things, and they're going to try and wait until people forget. The damage is done though, Wizards. Nobody is going to wait for your response. I've already signed up to test Kobold's system, and I'm thinking about ordering Pathfinder 2E soon

    It's a shame you've tanked the resale value of my nearly $2000 5e limited cover collection. Fuck you for that

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Switching to Pathfinder 2e
      That is something that always interested me as it looks like a really good system, but I never saw the need to switch. This might be the catalyst however lol.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Having read the rules already, it feels like it takes all the best from 3.5e and all the best from 5e. Now, having not played the game I can't say for sure if that is actually the case in practice

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Its a somewhat dumbed down 4e, so yes.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm biased but yeah, it's straight up better than any edition of DnD. It has more meat and choices for both DMs and players compared to 5e. And it isn't completely broken like 3.5e

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's 4th edition . Did you like 4th edition? If so you'll like PF2e

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, the final OGL changes will be announced to a nearly empty room. The fanbase is spooked - players are giving up D&D in favour of other systems, or going back to older editions of it. The party is over - Hasbro pissed in its own punchbowl.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah, they can backpedal as much as they like but it's not going to change shit.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. Just the fact that they planned it at all means they're untrustworthy. ORC plan will go ahead as normal.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        good. I for one welcome our new, friendlier overlords at Paizo. I will be honest: I never really bothered to look at Pathfinder at all due to the stigma and memetic propaganda about the game. I feel fooled, and humbled and quite honestly I feel like I played myself like a damn fiddle.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You have to play Pathfinder with a grain of salt, if that makes sense. Pozzo are true believers when it comes to moronchud shit, so there's a lot of iffy stuff in the lore. However, if you ignore that, they A) make good stuff, and B) are autistically dedicated to making everything as accessible (in the non-gay sense) as possible. Every single word they've written that isn't fluff-related is available online, for free, with their blessing.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pozzo is made of the same retarded fucking Washington morons that WotC is. People are delusional if they don't think Pozzo would do the exact same thing of they could.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I fail to see how the great state of Washington has anything to do with how these corpos operate their businesses

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because the people of the greater Seattle area are fucking insane. Which is who comprises both companies.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Care to elaborate or is this just shitty bait? Show me on the doll where Seattle hurt you

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What do you think this thread is about dipshit.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                dungeons and dragons?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Hasbro releasing an updated OGL for Dungeons and Dragons

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            nice thing about rulebooks is that you don't have to use any of the fluff!

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's not about the fluff. It's about those deranged beliefs which led WotC to do what they are doing. The same beliefs Paizo has. The future of Paizo is painfully obvious

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I see what you're saying. The nice thing is they can never take the books from you. However, if you prepare for it now it's not going to be as big problem if/when it happens.
                That being said, Paizo started because of these types of actions on WoTC's part. So I would think a big chunk of their customer base would revolt on them if they tried it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I am not convinced this had anything to do with anything but money.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >ORC plan will go ahead as normal.
        Same shit. And the trannies will swallow it all the same
        Just go libre, choose anything from this list
        https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#OtherLicenses

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They won't back down. They'll just wait, until they think the backlash has died down and then they'll do it when they think no one is looking.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Their not backing down. The new strategy is whenever you are faced with massive public outcry, just delay the rollout by 6 months to a year.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No, they've backed down... for now. The next OGL version won't be so draconian and blatant corporate raiding. However when you look at their blog post, the key part of their response is:
      >Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.
      >already
      Mark my words, the next OGL version they come up with will still declare 1.0a no longer authorized. It'll leave out the steal your stuff provisions. It'll leave out the "give us your revenue" provisions. It'll even go easy on the "harmful and discriminatory" stuff.
      But it'll have a bunch of flowery language protecting "already published" works, while saying that 1.0a is no longer an "authorized" version for new works. It'll also continue to give themselves the right update the terms of the license with little notice.

      They'll use "but hatespeech!" as their wedge to lay the groundwork they need to remove and replace 1.0a. Once they've established their right to do so, they'll start adding the rest of the bullshit back in.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yup, first it will be the sub license agreement and they will point to other corporations that have similar contracts.
        >Facebook and instagram have these in their terms of service agreements. It doesn't mean we will steal things from you, it simply means that should you decide you don't want to do anything with those things anymore, you agree that we can instead use it. We certainly wouldn't try to take it from you when you are using it
        Then they put in that they can terminate the license at any time for any reason
        >It's just to protect ourselves from a rogue group that might try to use the OGL for their own ends and to hurt us. Imagine if someone put out some hateful bigoted bullshit and tried to say that we endorsed it because we gave them the right to publish it
        Then they put in that you owe them 25% of your net income when you hit 2 million
        >Why do you care, it's only 25%. Yeah, Critical Role only pays 10%, they do other things for us
        Then it is reduced to 1 million, then 500k
        When everyone starts to throw a bitch fit about the new terms, Wizards terminates and guess what, they have a copy of everything that they are licensed to be able to use FOREVER and you can't do shit, because you agreed to the terms.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hope they don't back down, I want the normies out of my hobby

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This won't get rid of normies. Normies don't even know what's going on, let alone understand it.

      This will, at best, get rid of midwits.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >This will, at best, get rid of midwits.
        That's still a win.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Normies don't even know what's going on, let alone understand it
        >DM's are less than 5% of 5e players
        Dungeon Masters know whats up for the most part and a lot of normie players barely understand the rules because they have never read any of the books and don't want to.
        Loose the DM's, loose the player base.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Loose

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Loose like a Mangina.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              https://wpn.wizards.com/en/premium-hub

              They spent a ton of money to become Wotc premium certified.
              >But what benefit does it give?
              That they are Wotc premium certified.

              Aside from giving WotC all your sales data, what's involved?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                like I said above, new tables, new flooring, new organization of the store, passing a secret shopper test, and having all your players log into the MtG Companion App and track everything

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >like I said above, new tables, new flooring, new organization of the store, passing a secret shopper test, and having all your players log into the MtG Companion App and track everything

                You didn't say above, but thanks for saying here. It's interesting to know.

                Does the new organization make you hide all the non-Wizards stuff in the corner?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Shilling their app and passing corporate shit tests.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if they are backing down, they we should quite honestly ramp-up the offensive. make them buckle, rout them and oust the execs through the only means they understand: money.
    I suggest, for those who haven't yet and can, to purchase shares in Hasbro and WotC and exert pressure on The Board for them to resign with the power of aggregated shareholder voting power.
    Oust the board of Hasbro. Make sure the Microshaft bitch of a exec gets thrown to the streets and her boxes of belongings tossed from the 10th floor.
    Ruin Them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We would have to wait for the shares to crash before buying. If we buy now, it just strengthens WotC's position. They need to be in a desperate state of affairs and the company to be on the brink of bankruptcy. Only then, do you swoop in and then make sweeping changes with shareholder power.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I suggest, for those who haven't yet and can, to purchase shares in Hasbro and WotC and exert pressure on The Board for them to resign with the power of aggregated shareholder voting power.

      Hasbro is owned almost entirely by large investment firms. They like anything that increases quarter-on-quarter profit.

      I'll come back and buy shares next time I have $5 billion to spare.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        correct, that bit escaped my mind. on the other hand, there is precedence for what I am advocating with what happened to Blackrock and Vanguard having to Divest from Woke AF tech companies due to their investors demanding they make the money they are contractually obligated to generate for them.
        Again, this is risk, considering those large entities are quite closely, if not directly linked to the WEF, but at this point, if you have the means to sabotage the artillery of your opponent, would you not take it? I would if i had the means. again, a drop in the ocean, but a few quintillions drops is called rain, and if it rains hard enough, it pours, and if it pours hard enough, then its a Deluge, and then you force the company to build an ark and save what it can or risk drowning in a fiscal flood of biblical proportion.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anon, you're too old to make a post like this. I hope.

      They made it so grifters can't strike it rich with their shitty d20 supplement without paying royalties to WotC.
      Since everyone in the US assumes they're going to one day strike it rich, the grifters were able to turn it into a "WotC is punishing the little guy!" movement instead of just acknowledging that it doesn't effect 99% of people.

      Anon, you're too young to make a post like this. I hope.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'll concede its a lot of embellished language, but I hope you can pardon my use of linguistic flourish on a board dedicated to playing wizards and warriors.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There is literally no reason why WotC should ever get a single penny out of someone else's work. Not legal, not moral.

        Anons. The OGL movement was a bad idea since the beginning, its existence literally only served to monopolize the RPG space into one game and one centralized design space which is not only bad for the market, but it's bad for anyone who hopes to break into the market.
        To say the new OGL is bad because WotC is just further monopolizing the market by punishing those who want to strike it rich off of their rules is disingenuous because it fails to acknowledge that the OGL came into existence basically just to make WotC money in the first place and this is a natural conclusion of that now that they have enough market pull.

        Seeing people who honestly say "this OGL is bad, previous OGL is good" is like seeing people say "the way Google and Apple run appstores is good, but I would be upset if forced app developers to pay them."

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Blatantly false. Original OGL didn't monopolize shit, it was just a carte blanche permission for everyone willing to make supplements for D&D. That's not nefarious, that's what every RPG company should and could offer (and would if they were smart). The new OGL was a completely unprecedented act of evil, Hasbro/WotC trying to unilaterally declare takebacksies on a 20 year old agreement and declare themselves the owners of literally everything that even brushes against D&D. By the original letter of it they would have even owned Youtube videos reviewing D&D as a product. These are not the same thing at all.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Original OGL didn't monopolize shit, it was just a carte blanche permission for everyone willing to make supplements for D&D

            Which is exactly why it monopolized shit.

            The OGL encouraged people who might otherwise develop new games to instead make supplements for DnD.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think you know what a monopoly is. It's not a synonym for "good marketing".

              >There is literally no reason why WotC should ever get a single penny out of someone else's work. Not legal, not moral.

              Except for the universal precedent of a company licensing out their work to others to expand on, and taking a fee for it.

              The problem isn't that they want royalties, it's that they want royalties ALL OF A SUDDEN. They created this atmosphere and ecosystem, and now they're changing it.

              No one would ever make third party content for D&D if they had to pay a licensing fee for it. There's not enough money in that shit to bother.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No one would ever make third party content for D&D if they had to pay a licensing fee for it. There's not enough money in that shit to bother.

                That's not the same as "there's no legal or moral reason why Wizards should get money from other people's work".

                Well, I guess a case could be made that it's a moral reason. But definitely not a legal one.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Which is exactly why it monopolized shit.
              >The OGL encouraged people who might otherwise develop new games to instead make supplements for DnD.

              Oh my god... the sheer idiocity here in that comment was epic.

              Dude, go look up what a Network Externality is. https://personal.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/palgrave/network.html

              Look, before the OGL, the RPG industry was nearly dead. You had tons of tiny little game systems all vying for the same customers. None of those systems had commonalities in their rule to make them even semi compatible. This meant that while games might be good individually the games and their scope of reach could not grow large enough with enough players to make them profitable.

              The OGL allowed everyone a resource a way to say "here's a common set of behaviors, mechanics, and format for a game system, let's get everyone talking the same common language, and then just build your game on that" This revolutionized the game industry by giving everyone a lingua Franca or language that all gamers could work with that united them. The market boomed as a result of this, but as a consequence it also resulted in some non optimizations too. The OGL encourages a larger and more common market. But it does so and prevents the BS that happened in the 80s of noone having a big enough market for their games to survive.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Dude, go look up what a Network Externality is.

                Cool. Now look up the fact that "monopolized" has a colloquial definition that doesn't directly involve economics.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >monopoly
                no, D&D is not the only game in town. idiot

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There is absolutely no definition of the word monopoly you can reasonably attribute to anything here. You look like a huge idiot, please just spare us all and stop posting.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The OGL allowed everyone a resource a way to say "here's a common set of behaviors, mechanics, and format for a game system, let's get everyone talking the same common language, and then just build your game on that" This revolutionized the game industry by giving everyone a lingua Franca or language that all gamers could work with that united them. The market boomed as a result of this, but as a consequence it also resulted in some non optimizations too. The OGL encourages a larger and more common market. But it does so and prevents the BS that happened in the 80s of noone having a big enough market for their games to survive.
                The fact the OGL goes against the capitalistic ideal of "the best is the winner" to instead be "the first to the market is the winner" is why it ultimately is bad for the market.
                Yes RPGs were in shambles in the late 90s, but that was before they could take advantage of the internet the way they can now.
                Believe it or not, but now is not then, and the rules of how things can be profitable have changed.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                PDFs and print-on-demand lowered the barrier for entry by such a crazy amount, and reduced on of the biggest causes of losses for young companies. Nowadays, if your product sucks, the only thing you lose is the time you spent making it, not the $50,000 you had to spend on the minimum-sized print run.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Creative monopoly maybe, an actual monopoly is a little different.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              people don't need to develop new games if what they're producing are d&d rules with a new coat of paint. If your game is meaningfully different from a d&d adjacent game the OGL was always useless to you because the only thing it can help produce is more d&d. If what you're trying to do is more d&d, you might as well cut the bullshit.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It didn't monopolize anything, at all. It introduced an industry standard. The OGL allowed for disparate communities to come together through centralization. I don't even like D&D that much and I very much appreciate the community it has fostered. Regardless of the legalities, the original agreement was set forth to exist in perpetuity, and rightly so. Its violation without real cause other than the chasing of a cheap buck is correctly recognized as greedy and exploitative in the extreme.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Hasbro currently has around 138 million shares floating around. Of that about 97 million is owned by a combination of Black rock, Fidelity, and BNY Mellon. Good luck getting enough shares to not be ignored.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >moron rock
        Why is it always these guys? Every time something bad happens, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'll give you 3 guesses

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Blackrock's business model is based on financial services of custodially owned assets. In essence they have less involvement than you'd expect but a far wider sphere of influence than a majority shareholder.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I mean true but at the same time they frequently have more shares than anyone else when it matters. They should be busted up imo

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >They should be busted up imo
              Their ownership should be executed via forced labor.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why would the ruling class punish itself?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'll give you 3 guesses

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you won't do shit

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I know how “we” can put pressure on WotC
      >buy Hasbro stock!
      Communist understanding of the market lmao.
      You may want to LARP as a revolutionary but no one else does.
      >Don’t sell homebrew, carry on as you are.
      >Try to sell homebrew, give up your copyright.
      >Make more than $750,000, pay royalties
      This changes literally nothing for 99.9999% of D&D players. If you’ve ever tried selling your shitty homebrew I was never your friend or ally

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    lolno fuck those garden gnomes they can backpedal all they want

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >backing down
    Did they say they were going to drastically alter their business plans? Are they restructuring their projects and refocusing on making good games? Did they fire two the Microsoft demons who run WotC and the D&D? Did they apologize for the shit they did to MtG? Are they actually changing ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING THEY'VE SPENT THE LAST YEAR TELLING US THAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO?

    The answer is no. They're just going to try and do the same thing with a slightly different approach and time table, but they are absolutely still going to try and fuck everyone over and make retards think that it's still okay to be blindly loyal to the "D&D Lifestyle Brand™" while they proceed to be the same rotten jackasses they've been this whole time.

    Do not waste your time believing that WotC is actually ready to turn their act around for the better, like the last 20 years hasn't happened.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      My guess is that they will go full steam ahead with turning 6e into a microtransaction video game. Loosing the core community, they will have to pay premium to aquire new users who don't know what a shitshow they are getting into. Maybe they'll try to make a push into new markets like Asia, or probably do some dumb shit like recreating the sword coast in Saudi Arabia. Either way, they will double- and quadrouple down on the whales and extract every cent possible.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Exactly the point and something more people need to understand. The OGL was just a slipup that everyone noticed. There's worse shit in the works and their overall practices and approach to being a game company has not improved at all. Go rewatch the One D&D reveal video. The cancer is terminal.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Holy fuck. So hold on here, they're building a payware Tabletop Simulator with DLCs? And what's with the "I just found Jesus" vibes in that video? WTF

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not him, but think about it: DnD mostly makes money from DMs, almost entirely (Hasbro said as much). Dnd Beyond makes good money from players, because you can store a bunch of characters, make them quickly, and easily buy each expansion book to add whatever features you want.

            It's VERY situated like video game DLC.

            Furthermore, they hired something like 350 programmers for their VTT. you don't hire that many guys if you're not going full battle pass. It's the only way they can monetize the other 80% of their playerbase because there are already shitloads of pieces about how no one wants to DM anymore.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              so, are they going to force premium game shops to install touch monitors into their gaming rooms or what?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I doubt they want anything to do with game shops anymore

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh. our local shop just redid the entire gaming room space to become WotC premium certified. that... sucks. Paizo should push their AL equivalent hard now

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >WotC premium certified.
                What does that even mean?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They spent a ton of money to become Wotc premium certified.
                >But what benefit does it give?
                That they are Wotc premium certified.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They spent a ton of money to become Wotc premium certified.
                >But what benefit does it give?
                That they are Wotc premium certified.

                They get a tiny discount on MtG cards at the expense of them and their D&D AL players having to go through all kinds of hoops for MtG junkies. RIght now we have to log into the Magic Companion App to play D&D at the game shop.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They had to buy new tables, put in new flooring, censor language and game types, and they have to greet every customer with specific language when they enter the shop

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >DO WHAT WE TELL YOU TO DO OR ELSE
                Great community driven game WotC, just perfect. Love the sanitized experience. What's next, the DM running Adventure League must record the session and send it to WotC for review?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >they have to greet every customer with specific language when they enter the shop
                This is outright demonic.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://wpn.wizards.com/en/premium-hub

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Paizo's license is very much a work in progress and I wouldn't expect it for another year at the very least

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >our local shop just redid the entire gaming room space to become WotC premium certified
                Very cringe.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >about how no one wants to DM anymore.
              Makes you wonder why they expect there'd be demand for players if they have no game to play in.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Dude, 5e has a dm problem. 1e, 2e 3.x all have no dm problems. you can find dm's for those games because people actually love those and play them regularly and don't have to be a fucking life coach for the retards that have infested 5e. Only 5e has this problem. all real versions don't

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                5e has a DM problem because players have become necrotic assholes and the DM now has to be a tard wrangler. Less people want to try to create an interesting game when the players don't really give a shit and just want to play Skyrim, but as D&D

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >necrotic assholes
                lmao I think you mean neurotic. But there are assholes I definitely wish I could make necrotic in my group. Calling the DM a "tard wrangler" is something I feel in my soul. So many 5e players put the bare minimum in and then complain about EVERYTHING.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I didn't even see that it autocorrected to necrotic, but I think that works too.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You don't get it. DnD has an undead problem.
                Too many Low CR skeletons wanting to play and barely any lich to reign over them.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Calling the DM a "tard wrangler" is something I feel in my soul.
                It's one of those things that's only true for dnd in my experience. Never had the inane, spastic antics of PCs in any other game like in dnd. Even the same exact people can have a normal game but the moment there's a dwarf involved or something they lose 20 IQ points.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I accidentally blew up a space ship in a game of traveler and killed everyone on board... including the slaves we were rescuing.
                Every time I've used explosives it's gone poorly. It's become a bit of a running gag at this point.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >tard wrangler
                yeah I just called it fucking life coach for the retards

                Yep. that's pretty accurate.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >5e has a dm problem
                kek
                you can pay for one rn

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Furthermore, they hired something like 350 programmers for their VTT. you don't hire that many guys if you're not going full battle pass. It's the only way they can monetize the other 80% of their playerbase because there are already shitloads of pieces about how no one wants to DM anymore.
              Introducing: paid DMing.
              Introducing: /srpgg/ but it's D&D in the virtual tabletop and you pay for it.
              Introducing: pay to win in the virtual tabletop, no need to bribe the DM anymore, if you want that magic sword, just pay us and it will be delivered to your inventory.
              Introducing. AI DMs.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >they're building a payware Tabletop Simulator with DLCs?
            Something like that. Their own, proprietary, official VTT, released after they kneecap all competitor's VTTs that already have built in tools for D&D. And since it's WotC, it's fully expected for them to use lots of aggressive microtransactions for digital minis, maps, and whatever else they can charge for. You want special dice? Microtransaction. You want a few new tiles for your custom dungeon? Microtransaction.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Whereas Disneykeks and Nintendrones will keep consuming products regardless of quality, I have a feeling that WOTC won't be so lucky. I sincerely don't believe that any dedicated TRRPG player would blindly consume anything WOTC churns out after this.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Games Workshop at it again.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Too late. Fuck 'em. Let 'em burn to the ground.
    Let them serve as a lesson to the others.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nope. Never supporting this shit company. They explicitly stated they did this to force people to follow their leftist dogma.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pure paranoia. The first duty of a corporation is to maximise profits. Companies include inclusivity and diversity because it sells, not to upset you personally.

      My guess is that they will go full steam ahead with turning 6e into a microtransaction video game. Loosing the core community, they will have to pay premium to aquire new users who don't know what a shitshow they are getting into. Maybe they'll try to make a push into new markets like Asia, or probably do some dumb shit like recreating the sword coast in Saudi Arabia. Either way, they will double- and quadrouple down on the whales and extract every cent possible.

      This bro knows wassup. You need to remember these executives are from the video game space - they are whale hunting, and if they can land them it will make losing everyone else worthwhile.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're not backing down you idiot. Did you forget the GSL?

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why are people surprised that WOTC is doing this? They were cunts even before the Hasbro buyout.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    TRUST THE PLAN GOYS
    https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products.
      Yep, turns out that was the first fallback argument.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm gonna make a racist setting now and shill it everywhere just out of spite
        >moronDale

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I am interested in your view point and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          why?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I have plans to make a parody/racist version of One D&D as a wiki, protected by fair use. Not under any OGL. Excited for next year.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I look forward to you actually following through on that.

            I'll be holding my breath.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I made a somewhat popular list here in the past over 150 pages long. This will be even easier, just changing names to parodies and rewriting the flavor text poorly. It will be a collaborative wiki so others can help too.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Aren't they are war with Hispanicston?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I have plans to make a parody/racist version of One D&D as a wiki, protected by fair use. Not under any OGL. Excited for next year.

          why are you so eager to fulfill their prophecy?
          You're just making people with balls criticisms look worse because you can't control yourself

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            they cannot cancel free speech under fair use

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why shouldn't he?
            People need to be more willing to defend others, even if they don't agree with them. I think his idea is stupid as well, but if that dissuades people from arguing against WotC, maybe they didn't care to begin with.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They're just going to try and push the same shit with slightly smaller numbers in a week, and I welcome it. An exodus from 5e is finally coming.

        And not even the twitterites seem to have fallen for it. I guess that line doesn't work any more, especially when Paizo's been on that shit for longer and they're pushing for an open license.

        >Switching to Pathfinder 2e
        That is something that always interested me as it looks like a really good system, but I never saw the need to switch. This might be the catalyst however lol.

        PF2 is unfortunately a continuation of many of the previous edition's issues. I feel like the underlying concepts are good, but the execution is just painful. I hope you like spending feats to be able to intimidate people with a gesture instead of scary words, or to lie in specific ways with deception!

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.
      Actual cringy villain dialogue.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >"we didn't lose! WE- W E won!!"
      holy cringe, they got their ass blown out

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Hurr durr we were just prentending to be retarded so actyually WE WON !!!!!
      The day of the shredder can't come sooner

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >just kidding oopsie!
    Can't wait for all their little cum piggies to crawl back and defend them like abused spouses.

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wotc will not back down. The leaked 2.0 is out and is being pushed out to everyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTXkxy2KjXU it's still bs.

    WotC is basically doing what image related shows . They are burning themselves to the ground because of massive pride. They never expect to lose, they only expect to win. Their plans did not expect that killing 1.0 would be met with this sort of response. They expect the fans to just get in line, drink their poison koolaide and just die. WotC will not back down, they will not be able to use colorful language to obfuscate it, they are too stupid to back down because they have their egos , reputations, and pocket books involved and they will NOT back down. This will go to court... and wotc WILL lose. Just get ready to help a go fund me to fund the 3p vendors class action suit to meet wotc in battle and crush them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      mfw they lowered the amount to what they gave kickstarter as a deal... hahahah

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      good hopefully it drives out all the trannies and gays that shit the place up over the last few years. if i never have to hear about matt mercer again or how orcs and drow are both somehow black people when black people already exist in the setting that'd be fuckin great.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Just get ready to help a go fund me to fund the 3p vendors class action suit to meet wotc in battle and crush them.
      Paizo can afford to fight this shit on their own and they'll have to. Fuck that shit. Let them tank the hit.

      Just don't be a dick about all the industry delays and fuckery this will cause and keep giving people that deserve it your business. Free money for for profit businesses is dumb.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >dndfags think they can stand against the inevitable and terminal last stage phase of capitalism
    This battle was over long ago. The game is property now. Not a hobby.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's happened twice with D&D.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shut the fuck up leftoid.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >mentioning the world capitalism = leftoid
        Maybe he should have said garden gnomes instead, given that it's all 4chan thinks about. But yes, your game is property.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          People who believe capitalism has some kind of distinct "last stage" are at the very least unwittingly using Marxist dogma.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >last stage phase
      We're not even close, you dumb commie.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Brah the CEO of Wotc is the one responsible for Mixer at Xbox, she's well aquatinted with failed business endeavors.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't understand this.

        She oversaw one of the biggest failures of monetizing games, so when Hasbro brought her in when they wanted to monetize their games?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          CEOs and investors don't care about the properties they own, or hiw to make it work or not.
          Every time I hear of a CEO ruining a company they get another job very quickly.
          Nobody checks what you did. They see that you worked for Blizzard-activision and think you're hot shit, onlivious that you were also the reason it almost died.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          "Woman CEO" is one of the biggest ESG boosting parameters you can get. They put her there because the Blackrock money is worth more than they lose.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I have heard people say stuff like this and it just doesn't seem like something they could sustain for very long. How does Blackrock possibly benefit from this long term?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Blackrock holds 10 trillies AUM. Much of it is quite profitable. Imagine yourself as a wealthy businessman. You have a separate business that makes you ~$10,000,000 a year you take home. You spend $2,000,000 a year in the form of investment in the form of your friend and you researching how to make a time machine and predictably failing disastrously every single year. You are losing two million a year, but still making shitloads of money.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Yeah I hate to talk badly about them but I was given a very unsubstantial team and support.
          >Proceeds to bad mouth her old job every chance she gets.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          my friend here's the thing. WOTC has been spending FUCKING MILLIONS of dollars hiring the 3rd stringers from other companies... the ones that fuck shit up or do nothing while actually capable devs and managers get shit done. If you've worked in corporate america IT industry you know what I'm talkign about, if you havn't you need to understand, there are 4 tiers of employees there. 1. The Aces, these are the devs and managers that get a project, go heads down into it and get shit done. They're about 10% of the total . 2. The 2nd stringers. They do the fixes to the code that patch the minor bugs and shit that the aces left in their code. They do not head shit up, they are the fixit guys. They are about 10% of the total people involved, a bit more, up to about 15 or 20% at most 3. The 3rd stringers, these are the people that don't really produce but have enough skills to get hired and mostly just take up space. they;re more than 50-60% of the total. They frequently don't fucking do anything but may fuck shit up in small ways. and 4. The fuckers. These are the people that fuck shit up because they're fucking incompetent or promoted beyond their ability.

          Wotc is buying up "talent" from the IT industry but paying peanuts for them and thus getting 3rd tier people. This is why their fucking VTT does not exist yet, and why D&D beyond is so fucking slow. The whale they hired from xbox is a failure there and the best wotc could get at the price point they were offering. This is why they are so fucking bad even at being evil. I mean fuck... even EA games isn't as bad at being evil as these fucksticks are. They're incompetent. Long and short of it. so they're gonna crash and burn the product line.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Can confirm, I worked with a guy who did a stint at WotC and he told some interesting stories like how MTGO had a hard-cap of simultaneous players due to ass-backwards design that those 3rd stringers cobbled together with drool and playdoh.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Web dev here, WOTC head hunted me and when I heard their offer was less than 6 digits I noped the fuck out

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Which was a smart choice. Even an entry level dev'd get 6 figures at amazon corporate. As I said wotc doesn't fucking get it.... they're fucking retards. Even I could absolutely sort that shit out... but I wouldn't touch them. They need to find someone with some actual fucking experience delivering a proper fucking service and front end. A tpm and pm that knows their shit and how to id a bs dev vs a proper one. Let them build their fucking team after getting a clear set BRD and let them do the design doc. They need to have someone that knows how to stand up and maintain a proper AAA secure tier 1 service and keep it operating. Let them build their team with genuine performers, and give them a solid QA team of pro QAEs and SDETs to automate their pipeline so improvements can be evaluated. Then let them develop. They need to pay top notch pay for top notch work and they'll get top tier results. This nickle and dime bs for a billion dollar company is utter ignorance. Tier 1 devs smell when someone is trying to bs them and they'll steer clear of them. They need to commit and apply cash or they'll get nothing but 3rd tier programmers. Pay 1 ace the price of 3 of the 3rd tier jokers and you'll get results. Of keep the 3 useless people and you'll get trash results and over pay for it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                and yes, this is the anon that posted

                my friend here's the thing. WOTC has been spending FUCKING MILLIONS of dollars hiring the 3rd stringers from other companies... the ones that fuck shit up or do nothing while actually capable devs and managers get shit done. If you've worked in corporate america IT industry you know what I'm talkign about, if you havn't you need to understand, there are 4 tiers of employees there. 1. The Aces, these are the devs and managers that get a project, go heads down into it and get shit done. They're about 10% of the total . 2. The 2nd stringers. They do the fixes to the code that patch the minor bugs and shit that the aces left in their code. They do not head shit up, they are the fixit guys. They are about 10% of the total people involved, a bit more, up to about 15 or 20% at most 3. The 3rd stringers, these are the people that don't really produce but have enough skills to get hired and mostly just take up space. they;re more than 50-60% of the total. They frequently don't fucking do anything but may fuck shit up in small ways. and 4. The fuckers. These are the people that fuck shit up because they're fucking incompetent or promoted beyond their ability.

                Wotc is buying up "talent" from the IT industry but paying peanuts for them and thus getting 3rd tier people. This is why their fucking VTT does not exist yet, and why D&D beyond is so fucking slow. The whale they hired from xbox is a failure there and the best wotc could get at the price point they were offering. This is why they are so fucking bad even at being evil. I mean fuck... even EA games isn't as bad at being evil as these fucksticks are. They're incompetent. Long and short of it. so they're gonna crash and burn the product line.

                and yes, I know I said I could fix it.. but this is not a brag, this is just me saying that even I can see what's wrong here. I've been running teams as a QA manager for dev teams and worked as an SDET (software development engineer in testing) and as a dev. What they're doing here is a pretty fucking basic series of mistakes that you learn to avoid right off. The rates wotc are offering are a fucking insult to good devs and to the region theyre in,

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >my friend here's the thing. WOTC has been spending FUCKING MILLIONS of dollars hiring the 3rd stringers from other companies... the ones that fuck shit up or do nothing while actually capable devs and managers get shit done. If you've worked in corporate america IT industry you know what I'm talkign about, if you havn't you need to understand, there are 4 tiers of employees there. 1. The Aces, these are the devs and managers that get a project, go heads down into it and get shit done. They're about 10% of the total . 2. The 2nd stringers. They do the fixes to the code that patch the minor bugs and shit that the aces left in their code. They do not head shit up, they are the fixit guys. They are about 10% of the total people involved, a bit more, up to about 15 or 20% at most 3. The 3rd stringers, these are the people that don't really produce but have enough skills to get hired and mostly just take up space. they;re more than 50-60% of the total. They frequently don't fucking do anything but may fuck shit up in small ways. and 4. The fuckers. These are the people that fuck shit up because they're fucking incompetent or promoted beyond their ability.
            >Wotc is buying up "talent" from the IT industry but paying peanuts for them and thus getting 3rd tier people. This is why their fucking VTT does not exist yet, and why D&D beyond is so fucking slow. The whale they hired from xbox is a failure there and the best wotc could get at the price point they were offering. This is why they are so fucking bad even at being evil. I mean fuck... even EA games isn't as bad at being evil as these fucksticks are. They're incompetent. Long and short of it. so they're gonna crash and burn the product line.
            Old time software engineer in management at a company that pays top dollar for talent: can confirm that their salaries are insulting to anyone worth their salt

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The new trend in the moneymaking world seems to be all about testing the absolute bottom limits that you can feasibly get away with. They're scapegoating less profitable brands to test the waters.
          If they get away with this stunt, more money to them and they can move on and test whether they can get away with worse using a different brand (or keep abusing D&D to see the breaking point because it still doesn't produce enough profits).
          If this does end up going beyond the line, they just shutter D&D or downsize it massively and keep testing with other brands.
          Rinse and repeat until the sucker formula is perfectly defined.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      gays have been crowing about "late stage capitalism" since the 40s. D&D has been a property since WotC bought it from TSR who in-turn only managed to gain ownership through inheritance and hostile takeover tactics.

      People don't realize that D&D was dead, likely before they were ever born, and whatever the fuck it is we've had for the last 30+ years has been a soulless corporate product the entire time.

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The company will be "backing down" on making absolute bank from their cultist fanbase

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unless they abandon their plans to make a new license entirely, they just think y'all are stupid and won't understand the wording of the new one they STILL will try to bring out even with their "changes" only for them to pull greedy shit later. Don't stop until they completely abandon all plans to make a new license.

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >implying
    it's more like a tactical retreat
    They are going to keep pushing it until it sticks with minimal backlash.
    see: bethesda trying to profit off of mods

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The damage is done, ORC isn't going away

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    too late, go woke go broke

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Go woke, go broke.meme
      >Captain Marvel made a billion at the box office
      Makes you think.

      Told you all last night, hundreds of updoots won't stop us. I guess you didn't believe I was with WoTC last thread when I said that and now tiktokers are leaking "A few loud voices" 😉

      Cheers /tg/ we are still in the office and we aren't losing our jobs over your tempertantrum. We know you'll all be over it in a month and come running back to DDB. Because let's face it, even hacks on youtube can't tell you a replacement good enough for DDB without mentioning "b-but all math finder source books r free I blew ur mind"

      Bitch, it's done. It's over. We had fun, but it's over. It's not you, it's me.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Captain Marvel made a billion at the box office
        Disney says. Disney, who has been caught buying tickets to their own movies. Disney, which is currently hemorrhaging money with a cratering stock price...

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Who, rumor has it, has lost significantly capital in the FTX collapse.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Seriously? I expect the Mouse to be smarter than that.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They're really, really not.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's rumor and speculation. But some seems to think so to explain the level of strangeness about suddenly firing Chapek on a Sunday night, and reinstating Iger on Monday morning.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If true, it makes me smile.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ah yes, release a movie RIGHT AFTER Infinity War, and say it has story relevant to End Game.
        >It sells well
        Surprised Pikachu face...
        how well is phase 5 doing? if it wasn't for infinity war, i doubt Captain Cardboard would have pulled the numbers.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Go woke, go broke.meme
      >Captain Marvel made a billion at the box office
      Makes you think.

      [...]
      Bitch, it's done. It's over. We had fun, but it's over. It's not you, it's me.

      Anyone making this about "woke" took the bait in full, particularly those of them that praise Paizo in the same breath.
      This was never about that. This was purely about making money.

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    too late. They got ORC to become a thing so now they're permanently fucked

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They were dumb to have made that OGL in the first place. Or at least worded it the way it was. I can understand them seething but they're going to find out there's nothing that can be done about it. They won't lawyer their way out of their prior commitments.

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Keeping the anti-racism bullshit. Can do anything they want with that close. Keep using races and colonizing dungeons? Black rock sues you and takes your stuff.

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Told you all last night, hundreds of updoots won't stop us. I guess you didn't believe I was with WoTC last thread when I said that and now tiktokers are leaking "A few loud voices" 😉

    Cheers /tg/ we are still in the office and we aren't losing our jobs over your tempertantrum. We know you'll all be over it in a month and come running back to DDB. Because let's face it, even hacks on youtube can't tell you a replacement good enough for DDB without mentioning "b-but all math finder source books r free I blew ur mind"

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      lmao, suck on a shotgun, larping fag. I've already burned all my dnd shit

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Should have saved those alt covers anon. Actually.... good call. Means the third party market will go up with less copies in the hands of reddit users. 🙂 Thank you for your service.

        Now be a good little pawn and go rush off to Pathfinder until the numbers make brain hurt.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You're a smarmy one aren't you? I, like any sensible white man, prefer the superior roleplaying option, GURPS

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >running back
      Bitch I'm on levels of customization that you can't even comprehend.

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The bizarre thing isn't that they're trying to change the OGL, it's that the OGL exists at all. It was remarkably magnanimous but you can't expect magnanimity to last forever.

    Basically, it sucks that they're pulling the rug, but it was always their rug to pull.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WoTC nailed the rug to the floor. The OGL states you can use any version of it. And their website says (or said until about a week ago) you can use any published version of the OGL even if they make a new one. They're trying to trick people. They have no ground. All they're going to do is piss off people, and make all their competition circle their wagons.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nailing the rug to the floor would mean the original included the term "irrevocable" 🙂 (but you knew that didn't you)

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous
          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I eagerly await to see a now removed, frequently asked questions page be brought up in court as "contractual" 🙂 "Ah yes your honor, they said something online once, that means it's legally binding!!!1". (But you knew that wouldn't hold up already, didn't you)

            You're a smarmy one aren't you? I, like any sensible white man, prefer the superior roleplaying option, GURPS

            I can light more cigars off the cash made with DnD then I can with the pdfs from grups.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              cool story, Rasheed the PR intern

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >I eagerly await to see a now removed, frequently asked questions page be brought up in court as "contractual" 🙂 "Ah yes your honor, they said something online once, that means it's legally binding!!!1". (But you knew that wouldn't hold up already, didn't you)

              It will. It's existence can be verified through the Internet Archive and it qualifies as an Official Statement about the nature of the OGL to Licensees.

              If Wizards tries to deauthorize the OGL 1.0a publishers have already lawyered up, researched, found witnesses from that time (Ryan Dancey, Lisa Stevens,), and are willing and ready to sue WoTC for breach of contract and acting in bad faith. Their bluffs about stalling in court to rake up the bills and win by attrition won't work because it's a simple contractual matter. The can not deauthorize the OGL 1.0a. They are screwed if they try too. We have them dead to rights.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          With all the conditions put into place and the intent being very clear the absence of a single word isn't enough to dismantle the OGL. If it was really that easy to argue WotC would have rug-pulled much early back in the 4e days.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And my money is my money. They once offered a product that came with a licence I used to create cool stuff under, and now that that service no longer exists I shall be taking my money elsewhere, as will so many others.

      Of course, it's wizards prerogative if they want to replace their market with consumers who don't ask questions and just get excited for the next magic item loot crate. It's just that the trust Id built with this company was something rare and special, and it's been violated for so many. That all aside I agree in the same sense that it would be my own decision if I decided to jump off of a cliff, or to drive into oncoming traffic

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Shut the fuck up, are those crocs gloves? What the fuck??

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          he's fluent in sarcasm

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Destroy your brand overnight with the most gnomish greed since Judas
    >Blame the nazis, NFTs, and big business (which you are)
    If you buy D&D products after this you're honestly subhuman. Like Smash bros player levels of "should have been aborted."

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Only now? Poor poor anon. GSL with 4e was the same way. Yet, DnD has only astronomically growth since then. People consume billions a year on DnD, even after GSL

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        GSL wasn't trying to kill off other related content, though. It was a bad move, but not an astronomically horrid one.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You think this was recent. Cute 🙂

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are you trans or something? Why do you keep typing winkies or smileys?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I haven't spent a dime on D&D since 3e came out and it was garbage and not D&D. I can understand why people like it (it's targeted at card-fags), and even 4e (at least the comic was good?). But I can't understand continuing to roll with a publisher who hates you more than garden gnomes-Goyslop. My hope is that this causes more people to branch out and realize 3e/5e was NEVER good and there's a world of alternatives.

        Alright I should probably stop the 4chan-tier garden gnomeposting but I'm honestly kinda proud of that last one.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Crack open that 3e core rulebook sometime oldfriendo. "This Wizards of the Coast product contains no Open Game Content" 🙂 you bought in and you spent your hard earned sheckles to something we own.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >you bought in and you spent your hard earned sheckles
            No, my DM at the time did. I never spent a dime on it. Sorry!

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes. The 3.5 SRD they officially released is the official source of most Wizards Open Content from that era. Your point?

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're backing off, not backing down. They'll just wait for the outrage crowd to get bored and try again later.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      One week down out of the normal month it takes for everyone to forget all about the latest internet drama. 🙂 tick tock /tg/.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ...at which point everyone will have started playing everything else instead, gotten invested in their various games and alternative systems, and a few nogame hold-outs will scurry back to a virtual tabletop that belongs in /vgg/. All will be right in the world, and I'll get another Traveller Art thread.

        No matter which way you slice it, Wizards burning the OGL and triggering a diaspora works out well for the hobby.

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I liked the part where WotC tried to resurrect the golden goose they decapitated.

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous
  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Go on DDB
    >Books are free
    >Character generator is free
    >Campaign tracker is free
    >Dice roller is free
    >"What the hell were all these people paying a subscription for that they are now canceling?"
    Digital dice packs...
    They had people subscribing for different colors of screen-dice.
    Hundreds of thousands of dollars for 5-60 seconds of texture editing in GIMP

    Wizards really fucked up this time.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Go on DDB
      >Books are free
      What are you talking about? The books are only free if someone who bought them has shared them with you and is paying for an advanced subscription to be able to share them with you.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And God knows they plan on getting rid of that eventually.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine not just owning a PDF or a physical book. fucking normie retards.

        https://i.imgur.com/BaetnxX.jpg

        https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-ogl-announcement-wizards-of-the-coast-1849981365

        >Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast has apparently cancelled an announcement about its updated Open Gaming License for a second time this week. Inside sources at Wizards of the Coast tell io9 that the company is scrambling to formulate a response to backlash against the new OGL that has occurred over the past week, following io9's story about a leaked draft of the document.

        >Hasbro-owned Wizards of the Coast did not immediately respond to a request to comment for this story.

        If hear that one way to look at OGL 2.0 is WotC is trying to claim rights to Pathfinder and finally kill that shit fur fag system. If true i support them whole heartily. Also if this hellscape future comes ot pass i blame everyone who didn't support 4e because their cribs where made with with lead paint.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Imagine not just owning a PDF or a physical book. fucking normie retards.
          This. People nowadays really are completely alienated from the concept of owning something. And it's no doubt completely intended. The less of the product a person can own the better for businesses.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So you are ok at killing off a conteinment game for people you don't like?

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    CRPG's wins again gays

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    t.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      See

      [...]

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        there are 5 Chinese races, and among them the han are an ever diminishing minority

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What does any of this have to do with Wotc or /tg/?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            absolutely nothing, but gays gotta 4chan to keep moron moot in the money.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >han are an ever diminishing minority
          Lol what? There's 56 recognized ethnic Chinese groups, the Han make up 92% of their population.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He isn't attempting to be factual. He is attempting to politicise and co-opt/weaponise new recruits for his next election cycle. Completely off topic of course. That's how desperate they are.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            there are 5 Chinese races, and among them the han are an ever diminishing minority

            Who cares, no meaningful difference.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              There is in China, they're not very subtle about their Han preference.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why are poltards always so obsessed with race?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Fortunately I'm not in China, so I don't really need to care if Bing Bong looks down on Ding Dong because he prefers BBQed cat over boiled dog.

  42. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >mess up so bad you unite everyone against you
    >literally everyone
    >even media can’t defend you
    >virtue signal in a salty statement trying to weaponize one political side against another
    >doesn’t work and only makes things worse

    I think this may be the biggest screw up I’ve ever seen with an IP. How do you manage to mess up so bad, not even give the canned corporate “we’re sorry” response, and just double down while attacking everyone else? It’s incredible.

  43. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What's next, WotC tries to patent AI DMs?

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I want to believe this will blow up in WOTC's face.

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I find it pretty ironic that commies are accusing WOTC of being greedy in this situation when literally the only people who pay royalties will be those making $750,000 per year.
    But eat the right right? Unless they’re making homebrew for the only RPG you’ve ever played.

    Homebrew should be free. In fact people trying to sell it ought to be paying others to even look at it. Absolute joke that these gays have built up a secondary market to the point we’re they can reasonably expect to be millionaires over a couple years for tweaking stats from the monster manual. Burn it down.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's not a problem that you have to pay some royalties, the issue is how it combines with all the other stuff and makes WotC's intent clear.

      They want to get people to be a value-add to their ecosystem for free, but want to forbidd anyone in that from striking out on their own and eventually become a competitor, even for just 0.1% marketshare. They do so by destorying their margins and reserving the right to just destroy their revenue stream and gobble that market segment up. And while they were at it they wanted to blow up their competition to.

      Their aquisistions and hiring also make it clear that they want D&D to be a videogame, and the logical end point of that is clear. Over time D&D will become a Genshin Impact, where everything is designed as a funnel towards an infinite-spend money sink. They will embedd analytics into every button press of their VTT and use that data to figure out what the smallest amount of fun will keep players in, and then will charge a hefty premium for everything above that.

      WotC's move here is a shining example why monopolies are shit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think D&Done is stupid, but OGL is the issue here, and I’ve seen so many literal commies calling for a boycott, saying shit like “an attack on one is an attack on all” and all sorts of insane shit.
        The OGL is still more permissive than any right you would have to publish in any other context, like music or literature. I don’t know why anyone expects the right to PROFIT off of someone else’s IP in the first place, but even then, up to 750-fuckin-000 dollarydoos a year they can under the condition that what’s made with the D&D IP belongs to WotC.
        The simple solution is to not make things with the D&D IP, but oh wait that won’t sell as well…almost as if there’s some inherent value to the IP WotC owns and that those expecting to profit off it owe something to WotC

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Exactly. All you have to say is "Don't use their logo, trademark, or IP" and you get met with screeching because they don't understand they don't have to use the literal DnD logo for their fur fiction homebrew.

          You wanna use their Logo or ideas in your homebrew. Then expect to pay for it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why would they want competitors who sell their(WOTC) products

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It wasn't always competitors. Think of it in terms of video game mods: Skyrim mods still require you to purchase the base game, and each available mod makes the base game more valuable, because it adds extra customization to it. Even if the mod is paid, it is an additional option that you have with Skyrim that another game doesn't offer.
          3PP content works the same way while it's made to D&D rules. New classes, settings, systems or assets gives the core rules more bang-for-your-buck. It gives you a better return on the time you invested into learning the system because you won't need to relearn a different system for a sci-fi or film noir campaign later on.
          Now, WotC could create all that content themselves, but that requires putting up capital and risking not making the money back. That risk is handed to 3PP, and they rightfully deserve a return on that.

          It just turned out that when WotC pissed people of with 4e, 3PP had amassed enough power to tell them to fuck off and take the marketshare that wanted to keep 3.5e with them.
          Did that ruin WotC? No, but it's a very obvious out for D&D players when WotC decide to be dicks again. That is why the changes go after 3PP and VTTs. WotC wants to give you their cock again so they're cutting of your escape routes.

          >Can't I just play with my old books?
          Yes, and that is why this plan is beyond stupid. But do you think any of the execs at WotC/Hasbro ever actually played D&D?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I wish burgeroids suffered under actual communism.

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >twitter enraged
    >people even on Ganker writing "I WILL NOW PLAY ANOTHER SYSTEM
    >sales will still be stellar and D&D will still be the most popular fucking TTRPG end of the year
    Stop yelling. 95% of players do not give a FUCK about third party dogshit. They will continue to consume and even bad pr will again be good pr if anything.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >people even on Ganker writing "I WILL NOW PLAY ANOTHER SYSTEM
      /tg/ is probably the most reddit-corrupted board thanks to greentexts like Sir Bearington. I saw some bald basedface dude on YouTube reading that greentext literally just yesterday

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        unfortunately true. With rising popularity of this website as a whole even the smaller boards are being turned into dog shit. But this isn't "muh reddit", I would say it is more of a "the amount of people visiting has risen exponentially and a large and loud percentage of humans have awful taste no matter where you grab a sample sized group". Also: this is just a win-win scenario either way. If WotC sinks we get their books on discount and if they continue we just grab popcorn and enjoy the seething. This black-and-white view of D&D as either "le bad" or "best thing ever" is so detrimental to the hobby. If I want to play a specific fantasy game I use D&D like any other tool on my shelf or TTRPGs.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >95% of players do not give a FUCK about third party dogshit.
      >highest global streamer is third party content, outshining hottub streams and every export combined.

      Anon, I hate to tell you this... but the leading entertainment coomsoomed on twitch is explicitly third party dnd content.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        critrole isn't third party. Their stuff is officially released through WotC at this point and they are directly sponsored WHICH IS why their twitter response is so weird. They are just an elongated limb of hasbro at this point.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >critrole isn't third party.
          It is. Imagine thinking Baulder's Gate is first party DnD content because WOTC put out minsc and boo's journal of villainy.

          I want to know just where and what angle you had to fling yourself to get through the mental hoops to land that "Critical role is first party content". Seriously, walk me through the myriad of tin foil theories.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They’re consooming the “entertainment” ShiticalRole craps out, not the publications for the setting itself. The OGL is going to fuck over DMs Guild and Kobold Press and that is explicitly a good thing.
        Fuck everyone who tries to profit off a hobby.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Fuck everyone who tries to profit off a hobby
          You mean like Wizards of the Coast?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes. Fuck WotC and fuck GW. Fuck them all. Fuck every YouTuber and every gay trying to make a living off this shit
            But in the hierarchy of those getting fucked first and hardest, fuck every single reddit gay who sees this hobby as a paycheck selling shitty homebrew of someone else’s IP

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well you see, retarded moron, they were making a profit on that content under the OGL and they were/are perfectly within their rights to do so. Sorry that making money is too reddit for you

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >they were making a profit on that content under the OGL and they were/are perfectly within their rights to do so.
                >WERE
                And now the license has been updated and what they make for profit legally belongs to WOTC, and if they make over $750,000 they have to pay royalties.
                Sorry that the basic concept of exchange is too Ganker for you

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Sorry, but I don't agree to the new terms. I will be making content for 5e under the old licence as per my rights. Sorry basic contract law is too Straight White Male for you

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I will be making content for 5e under the old licence as per my rights
                Kek
                >NOOOOOOOO LICENSES EXIST IN PERPUTUITY AND CAN NEVER BE REVOKED OR UPDATED
                >basic contract law
                ahahahahaha
                Maybe you should try reading intermediate IP law for a start. But even then you understand that contracts aren't perpetual right? When someone offers you an employment contract and then decide to change how much you're paid or to fire you, you can't just sit there and go "nope I still work here!"
                You're on sovereign-citizen tiers of legal understanding my dude.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Allow me to produce two points of the contract of concern:
                >4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.
                Clearly, the use of the word perpetual is here. But that doesn't mean anything because there's a termination condition right?
                >13. Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.
                The only termination condition that exists in this contract is if I fail to adhere to the provisions defined therein. No addendum can retroactively change the terms I have to adhere to, because there is no provision for such a case, except for a reformation clause that limits itself specifically to changes that are made to the contract in order to ENFORCE it.

                In order for a contract to end, it must have a termination clause. If there is no termination clause, the contract doesn't end. Contracts of employment all reserve the right to fire an employee and thus terminate the contract. Cope seethe dilate WotCchud

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >perpetual means it can never be revoked
                It does not.
                >The only termination condition that exists in this contract is
                No. Termination clauses are not exhaustive lists of all the ways in which a contract may be terminated, nor are they exclusive of any other method of termination unless explicitly listed.

                In contract there’s this concept called “implied terms” which includes all sorts of rights and provisions even if they’re not written into a contract. I suggest you’d take a look.
                You can terminate a contract at any time, that’s actually a right you have. Doing so may be a breach of your contract, in which case you may be liable for damages, and that is what termination clauses address, clear rules on how to leave a contract without being in breach. But revocation and variation of contract are not necessarily breach.

                I’m going to put his very simply for you.
                >your neighbor lends you his lawnmower
                >he says you can use it “as much as you want any time you want”
                >later he asks for it back and says you can still use it on weekends
                >you do not get to keep the lawnmower if you don’t agree to the new terms
                Do you understand?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well then at the very least Wizards is liable for this breach of contract, and if they wish to come after me and millions of others for it they can be my guest.

                Hey dingus, one of the fundamental requirements for a valid contract is consideration. Both parties have to get something of value. What you have there is just permission, not a contract

                >Both parties have to get something of value
                Not true at all
                >What you have is permission, not a contract
                What I have is a license with clearly defined terms. If those terms are breached then we have a breach of contract

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Both parties have to get something of value
                >Not true at all
                I tire of laymen. Arguing with them is like arguing with creationists about evolution. They have no idea what they’re talking about and no desire to learn
                https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/consideration

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well whoop-dee-doo mr internet lawyer. I'm sure you're not actually representing a client here. By the way I can argue that Wizards does get value out of my content, and they should have to produce a quantifiable reason why me producing content for them under a legal licence they defined does not hold value to their brand

                But I'm sure I'm just a silly petulant untermensche layman who will never understand the nuance of Talmudic law

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >By the way I can argue that Wizards does get value out of my content, and they should have to produce a quantifiable reason
                Nope.

                Look my man, it’s exactly as I said. Law isn’t how you imagine it to be. Words frequently don’t have their everyday meaning, and what has been decided in court completely outweighs your opinion of what something means or how something should work.
                You could at any time seek legal advice or buy a fucking IP law textbook to learn about this shit, but you don’t want to, because you’re a creationist in this situation. It isn’t about the truth of what the law is to you, it’s about your concept of the world remaining unchanged

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Just not how IP law works anon. You receive the benefit of their IP, you owe them benefit in exchange.

                Well then I won't be producing any brand content for your client under any licence. Good day to you sir

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How about you benefit this dick and in exchange I'll cum inside your mouth, gay

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Hey dingus, one of the fundamental requirements for a valid contract is consideration. Both parties have to get something of value. What you have there is just permission, not a contract

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Moreover, if WOTC sees a thing you made under the OGL that they like, they can take it and use it themselves without any need to pay you or even credit you.

                And don't forget, if there's any legal trouble they can make you pay for their lawyers. I'm sure you can afford it, though, it's only several thousand dollars an hour.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >if WOTC sees a thing you made under the OGL that they like, they can take it and use it themselves without any need to pay you or even credit you.
                Why is the idea of WotC taking something of yours without something in return objectionable to you when you want to take something of theirs for nothing in return?

                They don't have to pay or credit you because you already benefitted from them and the success of D&D to sell your derivative

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's objectionable to me because I don't want to pay money to do work for wizards. Wizards doesn't have to pay me to produce content for their IP, and in exchange I can charge money for my derivative work

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Just not how IP law works anon. You receive the benefit of their IP, you owe them benefit in exchange.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're not using any IP if you use the OGL. That's the entire point of it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Lmao no. If you weren’t using someone IP it wouldn’t need to be licensed in the first fucking place

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                OGL specifically state you can't use DND IP protected content like settings and beholders. You only get access to the rules. Which cannot be copyright protected as per the US government. This is why Pathfinder is set in Golarion and not Faerun.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                bro you’re citing me IP 101 with that pic. All that’s says is that copyright does not protect ideas but the expression of those ideas. You’ll find it on the first page of any IP textbook.

                >You only get access to the rules. Which cannot be copyright protected as per the US government.
                Oh you’re the “the license only applies to rules which can never come under copyright anyway!!!!” as if you know IP law better than WotC’s lawyers, no matter how many times this shit is explained to you. I’m sure you’re right anon, I’m sure they’ve drafted a completely null document despite their expertise and despite independent lawyers consulted in the writing of news articles looking at it and never suggesting it is invalid from the start.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The point is they're tricking you to agreeing to the document and doing what it says when they dont have to.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My guy, completely independent lawyers have reviewed the OGL and never suggested for a second that it is legally invalid. Gizmodo consulted lawyers about it, and do you think CriticalRole and Paizo have never consulted lawyers about it?
                What’s more likely
                a) all of those lawyers are wrong and some retard with no legal expertise who read literally a single Act is right
                b) you are wrong

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The only aspect of the OGL that is under scrutiny is the "deauthorize" portion, which there is plenty of argument for being out of the scope of their ability.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My bro, when you own an IP the only conceivable way to prevent yourself from revoking a license would be to make it public domain

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the OGL is legally valid and those lawyers are right. But the point is you dont HAVE to use the OGL to use mechanics from 5e because mechanics are not copyrightable. You are being TRICKED into agreeing to the OGL because WotC wants you to be tricked into agreeing with it because it gives them favorable terms. (Particularly 1.1 which gives them amazing terms).

                Lawyers will tell you it is safer to agree to the OGL because it is an agreement from WotC that you can use their content and for a while they were right. But now that WotC has shown that they believe they can cancel the OGL at any time, it is no longer safe to use the OGL. You are better off avoiding hte OGL and publishing under Creative Commons.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You don’t have to explicitly accept the OGL. You accept it by what you do, eg using the shit that their license allows
                >Lawyers will tell you it is safer to agree to the OGL
                No lawyer will tell you to agree to an arrangement in which someone does not have the legal ownership of something to license to you, you paint-drinking spaztic

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You are wrong. Your content does not get published under the OGL unless you expressly choose for it to be.

                When you publish content, you can choose for yourself what license to publish it under. If you choose to publish it under the OGL, you are giving WotC a bunch of bullshit rights they do not deserve, in exchange for WotC pinky promising to never sue you. That promise is invalid, now that WotC has shown that they believe they can revoke the OGL at any time.

                Instead, publish your content under Creative Commons or any other open ttrpg license, or keep all of your rights reserved. Do not publish under the OGL, ever.

                But you dont have to listen to me, listen to this youtube lawyer or any number of other legal essays on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZQJQYqhAgY

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah nah. OGL is a license that creates an exception to WotC’s inherent rights to their intellectual property.
                What you’re suggesting is that you could publish your book Harry Potter and the Chamber of Commerce and so long as you choose not to be bound by copyright law you’re not.
                You publish under OGL or not at all, it isn’t a choice you get to make.

                >Instead, publish your content under Creative Commons or any other open ttrpg license, or keep all of your rights reserved. Do not publish under the OGL, ever.
                bro you don’t “publish under Creative Commons license” when you create something original. You create a CC license for your work that OTHER people use. If you use someone’s work that was published CC you are USING a CC license

                Similarly, when you use the work locesnsed under OGL you are using the OGL license whether you like it or not

                How the fuck have you misunderstood this so badly

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're mangling concepts here. You dont not need to agree to a license, and the mere publishing of work does not make you agree to the license.

                Lets say J.K Rowling had a license (Open Potter License) up that said "if you agree to these terms you may republish my content: (1) you agree to suck my dick whenever i want"

                >you could publish your book Harry Potter and the Chamber of Commerce
                you COULD publish this book without accepting the OPL, but you would be in violation of copyright and JK Rowling could sue you. This would be the equivalent of copypasting content from 5e's SRD. You do NOT have to accept the OPL and suck her dick merely because you published the content. You HAVE to accept the license for it to apply to you.

                >bro you don’t “publish under Creative Commons license” when you create something original.
                I'm aware. But here's the fundamental trick. You are almost certainly not violating WotC copyright unless you are literally copypasting from their books or reusing characters or setting (and republishing those characters and settings). Game mechanics are not copyrighted. Neither spells. Neither are statblocks or other things used in the spells. If you are writing a campaign, and that campaign does not copy paste content from a WotC book, you do not need to publish under the OGL and you should never agree to.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My friend, unless you're actually a lawyer you're in no better position to argue than I am. Your appeals to experts are just different. The entire point of the OGL is "use the rules not the IP" which was the entire bases for this exchange in the first place.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Your appeals to experts are just different.
                You’re not appealing to any fucking experts! You read an interpreted a single fucking Act with no legal understanding at all.
                Meanwhile, at least dozens of IP lawyers have looked at the OGL and none of them, not even the independent or even hostile ones thought “huh this is legally null”. Maybe- just fucking maybe- because it isnt

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The designated Open Game Content is not WotC IP. Third parties are explicitly not allowed to use any Product Identity (= Intellectual Property) stuff as set out in the SRD according to OGL 1.0(a), so they haven't been making money from someone else's IP, but from their own. Are you saying they shouldn't be able to make money from their own IP, just because it's shitty? People spend money on shit every day.

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Wizards might be backing down

    Did you people read Strixhaven?
    It doesn't matter if Blizzards of the coast is backing off their shitty corporate grift attempt. their content is shit and not even worth pirating.

    Let 'em die.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >their content is shit and not even worth pirating.
      This. 5e and wotc are so incredibly bad it would be a fucking good thing if the game outright died.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Strixhaven was trash, but with a few exceptions (whitewashing Kayla, the chud, Kaya being anywhere near the story) Brothers War was damn good.
      It was a smart idea for them to focus on the soldiers and characters like Tawnos to use as the point of view while keeping Teferi as little more than a framing device.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this, I was so fucking disappointed with spelljammer. literally only 2 or 3 pages dedicated to ship combat. I mean, come on, why else would anyone play in the setting...

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm glad chuds & Tragons is making this move to keep their community afloat. The last think we need if the D&D community spilling into other games.

  49. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Citation needed. And it needs to be more than a book that says inclusivity sells bc we say so.

    A thing is it’s people. The game changed from the 80s bc the people making and selling the game are different. New and different people change the thing you like which ultimately harms the thing.

    In college all the BA books said stupid things like diversity is our strength and inclusivity is appealing, then my finance books said things like diverse workforces can be paid less, won’t unionize or form tight groups, and favorable corporate governance will increase investment.

  50. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    groomer corps don't back down they just start lying

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