wtf was his problem?

why was he such a dickhead?

  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    We don't know. The thing about Lavos is that everything it did COULD have been the product of a highly intelligent mind. Or it could have been the product of something with no more sense of self or intellect than a virus. Infect, feed, reproduce. It never attempts to communicate. Maybe that's because it's just too far above us to bother, maybe it's just too alien, or maybe it's because it just can't.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      My guess is that it just never bothered. I think the humanoid form and the imitation of previous boss fights implied that it was not only stealing the life force of the planet, but also the DNA and characteristic of the strong/intelligent inhabitants. If it was becoming him and imitating everyone so well, it probably could communicate if it wanted to.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, that's probably true. That thing it puts in front of you in the final battle (the humanoid thing, that you're supposed to think is the main bit) possibly could have spoken to you, but you're right - why would it bother?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      There's a theory that the red gate Lucca uses to save her mom was deliberately planted by Lavos, hence the color, on the hunch that if Lucca's mom wasn't injured by Taban's machine she never would have taken up science and therefore wouldn't have built the telepod and gate key, leaving Lavos unimpeded. It turned out to not matter since Lucca takes up science in either scenario but if Lavos attempted that kind of indirect warfare it means it must have human-like intelligence, either inherent to it's species or because it developed it by cultivating humanity in the way described during the last boss fight.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Oh wow. I actually really like that idea. I never was able to figure out that gate. I always thought it was The Entity, but wasn't sure why, since that's not usually how It operates.

        Hey, question. And this may sound insane. Has anyone here ever heard of a theory about Kino being a created being and not an actual human? I came up with it a while ago, but I feel like SOMEONE else must have thought of it already. Or else I'm just completely mad.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          What about Kino implies anything like that?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            So, if you go to 65,000,000,000 BC before you're 'supposed' to - before Melchior tells you about the Masamune, but after you find The End of Time - you can go visit Ioka village. Ayla's not there, and the villagers just kind of talk to you, but don't do much. One of them mentions that Kino was found as baby by the previous chief, crying alone on Mystic Mountain. Right near where the portal you go there is.

            Now, the thing about that portal ... why is it there? Every other portal in the game, you don't unlock it at The End of Time until you travel between the two of them. Furthermore, the other portals are linked to a specific rip in time that happened in the OG timeline, that we see in Magus' flashback right before he joins you (or you kill him). Leene Square - Truce Canyon (Janus) / Guardia Forest - Bangor Dome (Balthazar) / Proto Dome - Medina Village (Melchior) / 65,000,000,000 BC crater - 12,000 AD cave (Lavos hitting the planet). But then there's that one weird portal out of place, going to Mystic Mountain. It doesn't have a 'sister' location like the others, and you can enter it right away from the End of Time. Strange.

            So here's another thought. Lavos is supposedly rewriting human genetics in order to make them more ... I guess 'tasty' would be the word. You get that info before you fight him; in dialogue from Magus, Robo, and/or Lucca. How exactly? Well, if you had access to all of time as if it was one moment ... why would you need to do something like selective breeding to change a species? Why not just make one change in the past, check the future, and see the results? Fine tune your ONE change until the end result looks good. You don't need to selectively breed chickens for eternity. You can just make one super chicken, put it next to the most fertile hen, wait, and kabing - millennia later, lots of fat little cluckers.
            Continuing:

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Part 2

              So, let's look at Kino. Isn't it kind of weird how different he looks from a normal person? You say he's a cavemen - well yeah, but he's not the only one. We see lots of other cavepeople, and they're just dudes with long hair and beards. Then Kino has these really big feet, these big hands, this odd stature. In the hardest-to-get special ending, where Lucca and Marle go through the 'boys' and comment on them? They look at Kino and say that he's strange and 'walks like a duck' but both agree that there's something strangely attractive about him.

              What's another entity that looks kind of human, but has large hands and feet, and walks strangely? Here's a hint - it has two little nipple things on either side of it, and it's a creation of Lavos (who is in fact, Little Nipple Thing on your right).

              The cavepeople tell you that those who go to Mystic Mountain disappear. Subjects, I wonder. Things taken and studied (possibly bred?) so that Lavos can create one very special humanoid. Then he puts it within baby-making distance of the female leader of the VERY SMALL number of living humans, right at the time that 1) their main enemies have been killed, and 2) things are getting cold. In other words, the perfect time to start making kids like crazy.

              We know that Ayla and Kino's descendants are the same family line that basically rules the world in all timelines. Goes from them to the zeal family (because the pendant), to Guardia, to Leene, to Marle, to Doan. That's all in the main ending. I think the reason that one strain of people had more magic (becoming the Enlightened Ones) was because they had more Kino DNA in them - in other words, directly influenced by Lavos.
              Continued

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe this is too much, but it could also kind of explain a few things about Kino. He's known as being less strong, but more clever, than other cavepeople. He exhibits distrust (why does he refuse Chrono and the rest as outsiders? As far as he's aware, every human on the planet should be Against Reptite, and thus Friend. Right?) Rather than just punching Crono in the face when he gets jealous, he sulks and steals and sneaks. When you think about it, he kind of exemplifies the sorts of qualities that Lavos seems to be going after. Ayla is all "To live is to fight" and attacking her problems head-on. But look at Zeal - sleeping away their days, focusing on inwards thinking and reflection. You see this sort of thing in a lot of fiction - the celebration of the 'natural world' vs. the poisoning darkness of higher thought. Lavos sort of feeds on ... I guess you could call it, poisonous emotions? Despair, guilt, seething anger? I dunno. That might all be too much, like I said.

                But yeah, that's my theory. If Lavos is God, Kino is Alien Jesus, sent to impregnate Mary Ayla and make a nice race of angsty humans for lunchtime.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Part 2

                So, let's look at Kino. Isn't it kind of weird how different he looks from a normal person? You say he's a cavemen - well yeah, but he's not the only one. We see lots of other cavepeople, and they're just dudes with long hair and beards. Then Kino has these really big feet, these big hands, this odd stature. In the hardest-to-get special ending, where Lucca and Marle go through the 'boys' and comment on them? They look at Kino and say that he's strange and 'walks like a duck' but both agree that there's something strangely attractive about him.

                What's another entity that looks kind of human, but has large hands and feet, and walks strangely? Here's a hint - it has two little nipple things on either side of it, and it's a creation of Lavos (who is in fact, Little Nipple Thing on your right).

                The cavepeople tell you that those who go to Mystic Mountain disappear. Subjects, I wonder. Things taken and studied (possibly bred?) so that Lavos can create one very special humanoid. Then he puts it within baby-making distance of the female leader of the VERY SMALL number of living humans, right at the time that 1) their main enemies have been killed, and 2) things are getting cold. In other words, the perfect time to start making kids like crazy.

                We know that Ayla and Kino's descendants are the same family line that basically rules the world in all timelines. Goes from them to the zeal family (because the pendant), to Guardia, to Leene, to Marle, to Doan. That's all in the main ending. I think the reason that one strain of people had more magic (becoming the Enlightened Ones) was because they had more Kino DNA in them - in other words, directly influenced by Lavos.
                Continued

                So, if you go to 65,000,000,000 BC before you're 'supposed' to - before Melchior tells you about the Masamune, but after you find The End of Time - you can go visit Ioka village. Ayla's not there, and the villagers just kind of talk to you, but don't do much. One of them mentions that Kino was found as baby by the previous chief, crying alone on Mystic Mountain. Right near where the portal you go there is.

                Now, the thing about that portal ... why is it there? Every other portal in the game, you don't unlock it at The End of Time until you travel between the two of them. Furthermore, the other portals are linked to a specific rip in time that happened in the OG timeline, that we see in Magus' flashback right before he joins you (or you kill him). Leene Square - Truce Canyon (Janus) / Guardia Forest - Bangor Dome (Balthazar) / Proto Dome - Medina Village (Melchior) / 65,000,000,000 BC crater - 12,000 AD cave (Lavos hitting the planet). But then there's that one weird portal out of place, going to Mystic Mountain. It doesn't have a 'sister' location like the others, and you can enter it right away from the End of Time. Strange.

                So here's another thought. Lavos is supposedly rewriting human genetics in order to make them more ... I guess 'tasty' would be the word. You get that info before you fight him; in dialogue from Magus, Robo, and/or Lucca. How exactly? Well, if you had access to all of time as if it was one moment ... why would you need to do something like selective breeding to change a species? Why not just make one change in the past, check the future, and see the results? Fine tune your ONE change until the end result looks good. You don't need to selectively breed chickens for eternity. You can just make one super chicken, put it next to the most fertile hen, wait, and kabing - millennia later, lots of fat little cluckers.
                Continuing:

                Oh wow. I actually really like that idea. I never was able to figure out that gate. I always thought it was The Entity, but wasn't sure why, since that's not usually how It operates.

                Hey, question. And this may sound insane. Has anyone here ever heard of a theory about Kino being a created being and not an actual human? I came up with it a while ago, but I feel like SOMEONE else must have thought of it already. Or else I'm just completely mad.

                There's a theory that the red gate Lucca uses to save her mom was deliberately planted by Lavos, hence the color, on the hunch that if Lucca's mom wasn't injured by Taban's machine she never would have taken up science and therefore wouldn't have built the telepod and gate key, leaving Lavos unimpeded. It turned out to not matter since Lucca takes up science in either scenario but if Lavos attempted that kind of indirect warfare it means it must have human-like intelligence, either inherent to it's species or because it developed it by cultivating humanity in the way described during the last boss fight.

                We don't know. The thing about Lavos is that everything it did COULD have been the product of a highly intelligent mind. Or it could have been the product of something with no more sense of self or intellect than a virus. Infect, feed, reproduce. It never attempts to communicate. Maybe that's because it's just too far above us to bother, maybe it's just too alien, or maybe it's because it just can't.

                This is a very good thread, thank you lads

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Man I haven't even played Chrono Trigger and I found reading this engrossing.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Changes the feel of the game a lot. Don't keep this crap in mind when you play it (takes like 5 hours to beat it from start to finish), and try to avoid reading lore or fan theories about it until you go through it at least once.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >takes like 5 hours to beat it from start to finish
                what

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Pretty sure he mistrusts Crono because Ayla immediately wanted to ride his dick. Kino's entire subplot was one of jealousy.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you visit the village before meeting Ayla he still says he doesn't like you.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                So he is the prototype of the feminine male meant to complete Aylas masculine demeanor. The frozen flame must´ve made them gender confused.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Isn't it kind of weird how different he looks from a normal person?
                He doesn't though.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Part 2

              So, let's look at Kino. Isn't it kind of weird how different he looks from a normal person? You say he's a cavemen - well yeah, but he's not the only one. We see lots of other cavepeople, and they're just dudes with long hair and beards. Then Kino has these really big feet, these big hands, this odd stature. In the hardest-to-get special ending, where Lucca and Marle go through the 'boys' and comment on them? They look at Kino and say that he's strange and 'walks like a duck' but both agree that there's something strangely attractive about him.

              What's another entity that looks kind of human, but has large hands and feet, and walks strangely? Here's a hint - it has two little nipple things on either side of it, and it's a creation of Lavos (who is in fact, Little Nipple Thing on your right).

              The cavepeople tell you that those who go to Mystic Mountain disappear. Subjects, I wonder. Things taken and studied (possibly bred?) so that Lavos can create one very special humanoid. Then he puts it within baby-making distance of the female leader of the VERY SMALL number of living humans, right at the time that 1) their main enemies have been killed, and 2) things are getting cold. In other words, the perfect time to start making kids like crazy.

              We know that Ayla and Kino's descendants are the same family line that basically rules the world in all timelines. Goes from them to the zeal family (because the pendant), to Guardia, to Leene, to Marle, to Doan. That's all in the main ending. I think the reason that one strain of people had more magic (becoming the Enlightened Ones) was because they had more Kino DNA in them - in other words, directly influenced by Lavos.
              Continued

              Maybe this is too much, but it could also kind of explain a few things about Kino. He's known as being less strong, but more clever, than other cavepeople. He exhibits distrust (why does he refuse Chrono and the rest as outsiders? As far as he's aware, every human on the planet should be Against Reptite, and thus Friend. Right?) Rather than just punching Crono in the face when he gets jealous, he sulks and steals and sneaks. When you think about it, he kind of exemplifies the sorts of qualities that Lavos seems to be going after. Ayla is all "To live is to fight" and attacking her problems head-on. But look at Zeal - sleeping away their days, focusing on inwards thinking and reflection. You see this sort of thing in a lot of fiction - the celebration of the 'natural world' vs. the poisoning darkness of higher thought. Lavos sort of feeds on ... I guess you could call it, poisonous emotions? Despair, guilt, seething anger? I dunno. That might all be too much, like I said.

              But yeah, that's my theory. If Lavos is God, Kino is Alien Jesus, sent to impregnate Mary Ayla and make a nice race of angsty humans for lunchtime.

              Good stuff anon, glad I stumbled on to your blog.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Part 2

              So, let's look at Kino. Isn't it kind of weird how different he looks from a normal person? You say he's a cavemen - well yeah, but he's not the only one. We see lots of other cavepeople, and they're just dudes with long hair and beards. Then Kino has these really big feet, these big hands, this odd stature. In the hardest-to-get special ending, where Lucca and Marle go through the 'boys' and comment on them? They look at Kino and say that he's strange and 'walks like a duck' but both agree that there's something strangely attractive about him.

              What's another entity that looks kind of human, but has large hands and feet, and walks strangely? Here's a hint - it has two little nipple things on either side of it, and it's a creation of Lavos (who is in fact, Little Nipple Thing on your right).

              The cavepeople tell you that those who go to Mystic Mountain disappear. Subjects, I wonder. Things taken and studied (possibly bred?) so that Lavos can create one very special humanoid. Then he puts it within baby-making distance of the female leader of the VERY SMALL number of living humans, right at the time that 1) their main enemies have been killed, and 2) things are getting cold. In other words, the perfect time to start making kids like crazy.

              We know that Ayla and Kino's descendants are the same family line that basically rules the world in all timelines. Goes from them to the zeal family (because the pendant), to Guardia, to Leene, to Marle, to Doan. That's all in the main ending. I think the reason that one strain of people had more magic (becoming the Enlightened Ones) was because they had more Kino DNA in them - in other words, directly influenced by Lavos.
              Continued

              Maybe this is too much, but it could also kind of explain a few things about Kino. He's known as being less strong, but more clever, than other cavepeople. He exhibits distrust (why does he refuse Chrono and the rest as outsiders? As far as he's aware, every human on the planet should be Against Reptite, and thus Friend. Right?) Rather than just punching Crono in the face when he gets jealous, he sulks and steals and sneaks. When you think about it, he kind of exemplifies the sorts of qualities that Lavos seems to be going after. Ayla is all "To live is to fight" and attacking her problems head-on. But look at Zeal - sleeping away their days, focusing on inwards thinking and reflection. You see this sort of thing in a lot of fiction - the celebration of the 'natural world' vs. the poisoning darkness of higher thought. Lavos sort of feeds on ... I guess you could call it, poisonous emotions? Despair, guilt, seething anger? I dunno. That might all be too much, like I said.

              But yeah, that's my theory. If Lavos is God, Kino is Alien Jesus, sent to impregnate Mary Ayla and make a nice race of angsty humans for lunchtime.

              Interesting theory. I'm personally more inclined to believe that he was just a human baby from another time (hence his being less innately primitive).

              Makes me wonder if there was originally going to be some explanation there that got cut like we know a lot of content did, or maybe the jap version explained the situation better and something got lost in translation. Seems like a lot of work for a hidden throwaway line about a minor side character.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                It's conjecture but my guess is the reason Kino's origin is weird is because it was quickly revised after the Singing Mountain content got cut. The eastern half of the prehistoric map is so barren because originally there was a village there, likely the place you would have wound up after fighting Magus and leading to the Singing Mountain subquest. They probably cut it because Magus's castle, the singing mountain, and the Tyranno Lair would have been too many major dungeons one after the other and likely didn't add to the story much. But relevant here is that if Kino was originally supposed to be from that eastern village they would have had to change it.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                The sense I got was that he was supposed to be from a later timeline and they ran out of time/cut content that would have clarified that. Like Magus being Guile

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Part 2

              So, let's look at Kino. Isn't it kind of weird how different he looks from a normal person? You say he's a cavemen - well yeah, but he's not the only one. We see lots of other cavepeople, and they're just dudes with long hair and beards. Then Kino has these really big feet, these big hands, this odd stature. In the hardest-to-get special ending, where Lucca and Marle go through the 'boys' and comment on them? They look at Kino and say that he's strange and 'walks like a duck' but both agree that there's something strangely attractive about him.

              What's another entity that looks kind of human, but has large hands and feet, and walks strangely? Here's a hint - it has two little nipple things on either side of it, and it's a creation of Lavos (who is in fact, Little Nipple Thing on your right).

              The cavepeople tell you that those who go to Mystic Mountain disappear. Subjects, I wonder. Things taken and studied (possibly bred?) so that Lavos can create one very special humanoid. Then he puts it within baby-making distance of the female leader of the VERY SMALL number of living humans, right at the time that 1) their main enemies have been killed, and 2) things are getting cold. In other words, the perfect time to start making kids like crazy.

              We know that Ayla and Kino's descendants are the same family line that basically rules the world in all timelines. Goes from them to the zeal family (because the pendant), to Guardia, to Leene, to Marle, to Doan. That's all in the main ending. I think the reason that one strain of people had more magic (becoming the Enlightened Ones) was because they had more Kino DNA in them - in other words, directly influenced by Lavos.
              Continued

              Maybe this is too much, but it could also kind of explain a few things about Kino. He's known as being less strong, but more clever, than other cavepeople. He exhibits distrust (why does he refuse Chrono and the rest as outsiders? As far as he's aware, every human on the planet should be Against Reptite, and thus Friend. Right?) Rather than just punching Crono in the face when he gets jealous, he sulks and steals and sneaks. When you think about it, he kind of exemplifies the sorts of qualities that Lavos seems to be going after. Ayla is all "To live is to fight" and attacking her problems head-on. But look at Zeal - sleeping away their days, focusing on inwards thinking and reflection. You see this sort of thing in a lot of fiction - the celebration of the 'natural world' vs. the poisoning darkness of higher thought. Lavos sort of feeds on ... I guess you could call it, poisonous emotions? Despair, guilt, seething anger? I dunno. That might all be too much, like I said.

              But yeah, that's my theory. If Lavos is God, Kino is Alien Jesus, sent to impregnate Mary Ayla and make a nice race of angsty humans for lunchtime.

              you're looking too deep into it

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, how do you reason that about the twink caveman?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      It communicates with the player directly in both games retard. It also has a very clear mission, evolve a species it can manipulate to get the most amount of energy, reproduce and infest other planets.
      Literally the whole point of schala and the frozen flame is communication with lavos.
      Play the fucking games before posting about them. A

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        It doesn't directly communicate in Trigger. You can make inferences but it doesn't "directly" do it. And in Cross it isn't the pure unadulterated Lavos.

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Well, he is perfect.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Cell?

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    New chrono trigger theories in 2022? Color me shocked.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    It was just a big kaiju that happen to land on a planet without an Ultraman showing up and beating the shit out of it.

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Evolution, the top of the food chain.

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    He's the designated bad guy in a shitty generic 90ies jRPG with DBZ characters

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >shitty
      Enlighten us with your superior tastes anon. I'd like to know

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