Murder is the concept of killing a person without their consent. It is universally bad. People have to be traumatised in childhood to be comfortable with killing. If you are comfortable with killing, you are literally a brain damaged mutant and no better than the sandmorons.
Killing enemy soldiers in war isn't murder and they didn't consent to be killed.
Killing the robbers who broke into your house isn't murder and they didn't consent.
Trespassers, maybe. A lot of what happens in that game is your fault, but you were never the one to fire the first shot against any faction.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Sure you didn't fire the first shot, but you voluntarily joined the military with the knowledge you'd be coerced to do bad things. You could've done anything else with your life.
Yes it's bad but it's necessary. Violence is necessary. No one can change anything in the world using peace
How many stores have you robbed, tough guy?
War is good, conflict is good. We can't just sit around talking forever, we'll never get anywhere. Struggle and suffering makes us better. We aren't meant to be here for a jolly time all the time, negativity can help drive you. That pretty much guarantees all our destruction, but that is something that's going to happen whether you decide to turn away or not.
You're nuts.
gnomish weaponized language designed to disarm white people. violence is the ultimate form of power
You're nuts.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>you voluntarily joined the military with the knowledge you'd be coerced to do bad things
That's a hell of a jump, from 'committing war crimes is evil' to 'joining the military makes you evil'. Most people in the military, even active combatants, don't commit war crimes. Soldiers on a surveillance mission aren't even expected to fire a single shot.
The laws of war even state, and Marines are taught in basic training that they're obliged to frag their superior officer rather than follow his orders to commit a war crime.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
War crimes are a redundant concept. I used the term "bad things" because that's more universal. If you join the military, your wages are a result of robbery which is a more universal way you are doing bad things.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>If you join the military, your wages are a result of robbery
How? Are you one of those 'all taxation is theft' types?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Explain how taxation isn't theft.
There is no such thing as peaceful resolution with Muslims or garden gnomes. Its their way or the highway. Debate and peace talks are legitimately a western concept. They chop heads off over disagreements like its nothing.
The only reason they give a shit about the west is because the west is currently occupying muslim territory. That's why iran became what it is today. They are defending themselves from you.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Explain how taxation isn't theft.
The government you elected needs money to function. Part of the agreement is to pay money to keep that government functioning.
If you believe taxation is theft, you should be talking about civil servants in general, and not specifically soldiers.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The government you elected needs money to function
I didn't elect them.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's crap. You're not explaining how that isn't theft at all. They kill or imprison people who refuse to give up their money willingly. How is that not theft?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>They kill or imprison people who refuse to give up their money willingly
Actually they just fine them 99.999% of the time, if we're talking about the US.
Also kinda super-irrelavant here, this game is about war crimes, not taxation.
Are there even any games about taxation?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Are there even any games about taxation?
every total war game
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not my genre I'm afraid.
Let me rephrase: Are there any games that treat taxation the way The Line treated war crimes?
War is good, conflict is good. We can't just sit around talking forever, we'll never get anywhere. Struggle and suffering makes us better. We aren't meant to be here for a jolly time all the time, negativity can help drive you. That pretty much guarantees all our destruction, but that is something that's going to happen whether you decide to turn away or not.
whites have so much power we can do all of that while making every other nation and race seethe while they build their sand castle homes and live like animals
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You need to lay off the fringe political discourse before it fries your brain.
That's right! Laws and civilization are a gnomish plot to tame white people, who by nature are supposed to be the most savage and murderous people on the planet.
Return to tradition! Disconnect your internet, toss your cellphone, burn down your house, and go live in a cave like nature intended.
You already had all this time, you dumbass. >Realise that you got scammed by pretentious writers and that you should pull the plug so you are not even a bad person in game.
And it was so fucking easy.
You and every gay who bought this game nd thought of it as an exponential graphic of entertainment per money spent thinking that you should finish every game for the worth you paid for them instead of refounding when you find shit you don't like about it is a guillable moron who would get themselves easily scammed and mind controlled by thinking if an objective is placed then you should accomplish it, when you just could think for yourself instead of being instructed like a dog.
Not knowing what choices you had it's not an excuse when you can under, explore and consider what can you do.
There is no such thing as peaceful resolution with Muslims or garden gnomes. Its their way or the highway. Debate and peace talks are legitimately a western concept. They chop heads off over disagreements like its nothing.
>We're still having threads where people who missed the point yell at other people who missed the point in different ways
Fuck me I hate this stupid fucking game
>we had them trained
I dropped this game 6 fucking times because it was so boring and shitty to play, and when I did beat it I never felt good because the game is so antifun, so Id say he failed at the notion of having the players trained
I played through it because journalists and Ganker said "no bro, youre totally missing out on the subversive story" I already knew it was coming by the time I played it. They fucked it >but you still le played it
had it not been for peer pressure the dogshit underselling game would not have been played and im glad the studio is dead
>fellow Americans who are also trying to save the city.
They kinda deserved it, should've went home instead of staying to maintain a dictatorship of sandmorons, but I guess americans can't help it
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Unlike your tiny squad, they were an entire batallion with no communications with the outside world and no exit strategy. Plus they felt responsible for the locals and doubly so because half the problems were being caused by CIA fuckery and morally couldn't just up and leave.
Meanwhile, morally your job was to observe, return, and report, not involve yourself in their struggles.
>Why did the studio close?
because people realized that the game is shit and they don't want to buy another pseudo intellectual game when the market is already flooded with that ilk
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>when the market is already flooded with that ilk
What other mainstream games even come close to Spec Ops: The Line?
>the point is NOT about war crimes >it’s about the player/dev relationship and game tropes more broadly actually!
Ah, the Bioshock Infinite cope for when your story is actually dumb and doesn’t take advantage of anything it sets up to instead do the most standard stuff imaginable. Then again, the same people who deepthroated this game at launch did the same for Infinite, so it all checks out.
>read a book >later chapters try to make me feel guilty for the bad things that happen in the book >read on to see where they are going with it >the point was that I could have stopped reading at any time >this is very clever writing.
>When the game was released, some players found this choice to be unfair.
Because it was, this game is the textbook example on how to NOT do what these developers wanted to do >They felt we, the developers, had forced them to do terrible things and were casting the blame onto them.
Yeah, cause that's what they literally did, gave no option for the player to not do what they were tempted to, it was always either do it, or you can't progress. >These people missed the point.
No, these people saw right through your failed attempt at creating a choice the player would feel bad for...if so many players missed the point, then it means you as a developer failed to deliver it.
And sure, some might argue that the point is exactly the illusion of choice, or the illusion that what you're doing is good cause you're the good guy, but then the "lesson" or "the point" shouldnt be to blame the player, rather to make them realize that no matter how atrocious their actions were, they aren't to blame cause they were literally lead to believe their only choice was the right choice(he literally says so when he says "we trained them to believe they were the good guys"). But that's not what the game does, the game does blame the player and wants them to feel bad.
>we have to use these means to destroy our enemies >you.. le shouldnt! >it's my call as your superior >ok >*le warcrime* >goddammit you made us kill 47 innocent civilians >uhmm i didnt make a bad call.. because LE HEADCANON!
This game's only mistake in the metanarrative aspect was not having a hidden option for you to end the game as soon as your initial objective was done.
If it had better gameplay it would've been a near perfect game.
Not a perfect parallel but it's sort of like the trolly problem if the other track is obscured. You see people tied to a track, a switch, and the other track goes off into the distance. You pull the lever. The trolly goes down the other track. Only that track ends on a cliff and the trolly jumps the tracks, plummets off a cliff, and lands in an orphanage and the trolly explodes for dramatic effect. Did you know that would happen? No. Should you feel bad about it? Yeah, you're human and probably not a psychopath. Your natural impulse is to try to defend your actions to release some of the guilt. "I didn't know. How could I know? I was trying to save five people." It just seems kind of empty because your action directly caused the death of a whole pile of children.
There is still a lot more going on in the game to give context to the mortar and the overall story but if you're going to hypefocus on a single event because that's all your three brain cells can handle then there ya go. Take the shitty metaphor.
>Take the shitty metaphor
you made a good point anon and i think it does apply to the context of the game and one can analyze the actions of the characters within the game
im a sucker for the heart of darkness and apocalypse now so i liked the story of the game although i saw many of its beats coming from a mile away
only shit i disliked about this back in the day was all the pseud talking points coming from the devs passing moral judgment on the players for playing a game they bought. They were using the narrative of a piece of media they created to make statement about people irl. Should people stop watching a film the moment it shows violence or else they enjoy inflicting pain on others? Should people stop reading a book if it mentions rape or else they are potential rapists? Its a stupid fucking argument
Wait is the Delta Squad vs Generic Bad Guys (who aren't actually bad guys) the thing people are focused on? I thought the issue was the villain breaking the 4th wall and pointing directly at you, the player, and saying you're a bad person for enjoying a story to its conclusion?
the funny irony of the white phosphorous is that from a self preservation perspective, its entirely necessary and justified >infinitely many combatants are coming from location over the hill >so too are women and children >you will eventually be shot to death if you choose to not use the white phosphorous as infinitely many more combatants will come out >the only way to stop them is to use the white phosphorous
bro, if there are as many as 3 guys trying to end my life, I will gladly end the lifes of 1000 innocents who chose to break bread with the 3 guys trying to kill me. Note that the first interaction you have with these dumb morons in the first chapter is supposed to be you acting as the aggressor, but if you stand around long enough they will just start fucking shooting at you.
I thought the game was pretty good. I like a little subversion. I'm not saying the game is the greatest work of art ever created but yeah, it was pretty good.
You know somebody is a pseudo intellectual if they find anything deep about this game. It's entirely fiction and they are letting themselves be emotionally manipulated for hurting fictional people. I swear the people who fall for this bullshit are easy to control and manipulate, the first to drink the kool-aid.
It's normal to get a little emotional from a story, something sad happens, maybe you cry a little, but you immediately forget about it and move on because you know it's fiction. This game doesn't want you to move on, it attempts to guilt you for experiencing it, it says YOU are the problem. All these overbearing messages of guilt may make someone of a lesser emotional intelligence take precedence over the fact that it is fiction.
So it's bad for a work of fiction to have a profound effect on you?
Or is it just bad that THIS particular, deliberately manipulative piece of fiction had a profound effect on some players?
It's the shame. The fact the game is shaming YOU the player. Why would you let yourself be shamed over something you are in all reality entirely innocent of?
so what would happen to Walker after he went back home? He did disobey orders, which got his squad killed. Committed a war crime with the white phosphorus... What else is there? Oh pretty sure killing cia agents and other squadrons is some kind of illegal as well. Well maybe not if they are fighting you. I dont know us army law
I mean I guess he could lie and there's basically no one left alive to even dispute him but still
>about 3919464 barely concealed propaganda games come out around the same time that just led you down corridors to shoot at brown people and suck you off and promote you to master general super sergeant major captain for doing everything you're told without question >one game comes out parodying it and asks the question what if what you were doing wasn't necessarily a good thing just because they put an objective marker on it >NOOOOOO I'M A GOOD LITTLE SOLDIER THIS IS STUPID AND PRETENTIOUS AMERICANS CAN'T BE BAD IN WAR
pseuds are a pox, call of duty does this nearly every alternating game but "high minded" fags who havent touched call of duty since it left the playstation 2 think its some untouched subject. every modern warfare poses the exact same questions of morality with more finesse than Spec ops BUT THEYRE ACTUALLY FUN SO IT BAD!
I dont think you are supossed to Insert yourself into the character. The game says the main character is evil for killing innocent people wich is true because from a story standpoint he was supossed to retreat when there was trouble but he kept on pushing. You merely control the progression of the Story.
i like how DE commie shills have been so BTFO lately that they're now just resorting to posting pictures of harry all over Ganker even when they are of no relevance.
Tankies are specialists in shooting their own allies in the back for slight differences in political beliefs. No surprise they'd be out to destroy a Trotskiest game like that.
they do, but that's okay because it's not actually YOU being guilt tripped it's the crazy american soldier guy who's being guilt tripped! isn't that totally clever?
How does that make players guilty? If it was a non linear game and bad things happened because of the path I chose I'd understand but it's not, it's a linear story.
because you kept playing it
because you bought it in the first place
because your intense love of AMERICA FUCK YEAH fps shooters caused a gaming trend for like 5 years
>because your intense love of AMERICA FUCK YEAH fps shooters caused a gaming trend for like 5 years
where's all the "(other country) FUCK YEAH) fps shooters? i guess STALKER could count as one of them
This game was pretty good for the most part, but the ending sucked, and I fucking hate all the pretentious retard who act like this game is somehow high art.
It’s a game made to mock modern military shooters and the people that play them and make them have a realization that “this is bad” but it failed to understand 1. People don’t give a shit since games aren’t real and 2. Most genre deconstructions are retarded. In the end it just ended up being pretentious nonsense that drove the devs out of business.
honestly though, I enjoyed the visual tricks the game used on the player throughout and they are the only reason I ever recommend Spec Ops to anyone. I couldn't feel attacked by the meta bullshit because at the end of the day I had zero control over the narrative, it would be like feeling guilty over a movie protagonist killing somebody.
for a fps shooter it was really visually pretty. The environment in general was great. Loved going up that giant mall, that part when youre trying to get to the DJ
I don't remember most of them but there are several throughout the game while Walker is on his descent into madness. Most of them were easy to miss as it's stuff like looking back and seeing people hung from pylons. Things that change subtlety when you look again. It has been over a decade since I last played it though, Spec Ops isn't that replayable.
I remember a few of them, they were nifty.
I couldn't replay it either, I was able to get through the first few chapters when you fight local militias. Once I got up to the point where I had to kill American soldiers, who I now know in retrospect aren't the bad guys, I couldn't do it.
>The government you elected needs money to function
I didn't elect them.
Then advocate to get more people to vote for anti-tax parties and candidates.
>Then advocate to get more people to vote for anti-tax parties and candidates.
It has never worked and never will. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that taxation is theft and the military is an immoral organisation by being funded by it. The solution is to stop abusing children. Unmolested children's brains are far more complex than abused ones.
>They kill or imprison people who refuse to give up their money willingly
Actually they just fine them 99.999% of the time, if we're talking about the US.
Also kinda super-irrelavant here, this game is about war crimes, not taxation.
Are there even any games about taxation?
>Also kinda super-irrelavant here, this game is about war crimes, not taxation.
If you can't follow the conversation, stay out of it.
>The solution to the issue of taxation being theft is to stop abusing children.
That came out even father from left field than the taxation issue. I'll bite - please explain your logic.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Unmolested children's brains are far more complex than abused ones.
I'm gonna need you to put in at least half the amount of effort I am to continue this discussion.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nah, I'm good, I have to go outside now anyway. Have a nice day, I hope I get a chance to talk to you about taxation again one day.
what the fuck does this even mean
ive been scratching my head for a couple minutes here wonder how molested children and complex brains... is the cause of taxes?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's a huge topic and I strongly advise you find out more about it but I'll give you some basic points. When you use force to make your children submit to your will, you teach them that they too must use force to get what they want. So they don't empathise with others and try to get a win win like you'd expect from a reasonable person, they instead resort to shouting and physical violence. They might smash another's sand castle to assert dominance or steal toys for example. They also get better at hiding undesirable actions because they have incentive to avoid your punishments. So you end up with a kid with sociopathic tendencies.
On the other hand if you teach them to negotiate and never use force unless they're about to be hit by a bus, they will develop that part of their brain that empathises and thinks more about the wider situation, what other people want and need.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
How do you negotiate with a toddler? Spanking is all they understand.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
For starters giving them eye contact and playing with them will increase their sense of self massively. You can do things like hand them things and copy what they're doing. The result is them seeing you as a lot like themselves. And like I said, being violent to children just makes them better at hiding their misdeeds. You only serve to make them more conniving which is the opposite of the intended goal. There are thousands of books and classes you can take on this subject.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>dude don't beat your kids it's Le child abuse it's Le bad!!!
those who didn't watched as their kids grew up to become fags chuds pornstars or enlisted in the ''wars for israel'' terrorist armies
Video game protagonists are supposed to be self-inserts. You're supposed to relate with the protagonist and his struggles because you are controlling him and he is your avatar in the game's world. It's not a movie.
>do you self-insert as Mario when you play Mario? >do you self-insert as Sonic when you play Sonic?
Yes. When I'm victorious in the game, my character is as well. If I beat a level only for my character to get raped in the ass at the end, I'm gonna be pissed because the experience of my avatar is not cohesive with how I performed in the game.
The player character is your avatar in the game's world, full-stop. The experiences of the player and the avatar should coincide. Did you like it when you ghosted your way through an entire level of Hitman Absolution only for Agent 47 to spill his spaghetti in the cutscene at the end and get caught? It's bullshit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Did you like it when you ghosted your way through an entire level of Hitman Absolution only for Agent 47 to spill his spaghetti in the cutscene at the end and get caught?
nothing wrong with that
do you want every video game character to be your perfect mary sue self-insert?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>nothing wrong with that
Stopped reading there, you're retarded. Don't reply to me again.
>do you self-insert as Mario when you play Mario?
Yes? He is literally meant for you to be able to self insert as
Miyamoto: >Unless you're careful, there's a tendency for games like Mario that can be played by children to gradually become childish. Those making the game tend to unconsciously make them that way. >Taking how Mario's line can be scripted as an example, they even propose to write, "Where'd my mommy go?". When someone in their fifties like me hears their player-character speak childishly like that, it doesn't quite sit right. After all, Mario wasn't a game only for children in the first place. As I make a game, I try to keep in mind that guys in their fifties will play it, too.
bro just stop playing your $50 game ok just give me money without expecting to use the product in return its art and a deep statement bro
Yes, murder is bad. Resolve your conflicts peacefully.
Murder is good, there's no peace with sandmorons
Murder is the concept of killing a person without their consent. It is universally bad. People have to be traumatised in childhood to be comfortable with killing. If you are comfortable with killing, you are literally a brain damaged mutant and no better than the sandmorons.
Killing enemy soldiers in war isn't murder and they didn't consent to be killed.
Killing the robbers who broke into your house isn't murder and they didn't consent.
In the context of that game, you are the robbers.
manifest destiny bitch
Thanks for being honest.
Trespassers, maybe. A lot of what happens in that game is your fault, but you were never the one to fire the first shot against any faction.
Sure you didn't fire the first shot, but you voluntarily joined the military with the knowledge you'd be coerced to do bad things. You could've done anything else with your life.
How many stores have you robbed, tough guy?
You're nuts.
You're nuts.
>you voluntarily joined the military with the knowledge you'd be coerced to do bad things
That's a hell of a jump, from 'committing war crimes is evil' to 'joining the military makes you evil'. Most people in the military, even active combatants, don't commit war crimes. Soldiers on a surveillance mission aren't even expected to fire a single shot.
The laws of war even state, and Marines are taught in basic training that they're obliged to frag their superior officer rather than follow his orders to commit a war crime.
War crimes are a redundant concept. I used the term "bad things" because that's more universal. If you join the military, your wages are a result of robbery which is a more universal way you are doing bad things.
>If you join the military, your wages are a result of robbery
How? Are you one of those 'all taxation is theft' types?
Explain how taxation isn't theft.
The only reason they give a shit about the west is because the west is currently occupying muslim territory. That's why iran became what it is today. They are defending themselves from you.
>Explain how taxation isn't theft.
The government you elected needs money to function. Part of the agreement is to pay money to keep that government functioning.
If you believe taxation is theft, you should be talking about civil servants in general, and not specifically soldiers.
>The government you elected needs money to function
I didn't elect them.
That's crap. You're not explaining how that isn't theft at all. They kill or imprison people who refuse to give up their money willingly. How is that not theft?
>They kill or imprison people who refuse to give up their money willingly
Actually they just fine them 99.999% of the time, if we're talking about the US.
Also kinda super-irrelavant here, this game is about war crimes, not taxation.
Are there even any games about taxation?
>Are there even any games about taxation?
every total war game
Not my genre I'm afraid.
Let me rephrase: Are there any games that treat taxation the way The Line treated war crimes?
War is good, conflict is good. We can't just sit around talking forever, we'll never get anywhere. Struggle and suffering makes us better. We aren't meant to be here for a jolly time all the time, negativity can help drive you. That pretty much guarantees all our destruction, but that is something that's going to happen whether you decide to turn away or not.
So what you’re saying is give war a chance?
gnomish weaponized language designed to disarm white people. violence is the ultimate form of power
>violence is the ultimate form of power
whites have so much power we can do all of that while making every other nation and race seethe while they build their sand castle homes and live like animals
You need to lay off the fringe political discourse before it fries your brain.
That's right! Laws and civilization are a gnomish plot to tame white people, who by nature are supposed to be the most savage and murderous people on the planet.
Return to tradition! Disconnect your internet, toss your cellphone, burn down your house, and go live in a cave like nature intended.
this. And despite their holier than thou islam shit out there they still rape little boys like its totally cool, fuck shitskins
This except apply this to literally every race. No one is perfect, no one is agreeable, most people are scum and humans deserve to be culled down.
also in the game you kill american cumskin soldiers, it's mega based
>literally
you kill more americucks than sandmorons in the line
then give me an option to do so
We can't do that. We worked very hard on the murder section of our game and we want all players to experience it.
You already had all this time, you dumbass.
>Realise that you got scammed by pretentious writers and that you should pull the plug so you are not even a bad person in game.
And it was so fucking easy.
You and every gay who bought this game nd thought of it as an exponential graphic of entertainment per money spent thinking that you should finish every game for the worth you paid for them instead of refounding when you find shit you don't like about it is a guillable moron who would get themselves easily scammed and mind controlled by thinking if an objective is placed then you should accomplish it, when you just could think for yourself instead of being instructed like a dog.
Not knowing what choices you had it's not an excuse when you can under, explore and consider what can you do.
Feel free to collect your thoughts and try again.
Yes it's bad but it's necessary. Violence is necessary. No one can change anything in the world using peace
There is no such thing as peaceful resolution with Muslims or garden gnomes. Its their way or the highway. Debate and peace talks are legitimately a western concept. They chop heads off over disagreements like its nothing.
How come books don't have characters scream and beg you not to turn the page? (capeshit is not books)
But they do, newfag
>We're still having threads where people who missed the point yell at other people who missed the point in different ways
Fuck me I hate this stupid fucking game
>a wild pseud appears
>psued uses feign intellectual superiority
>it's not very effective
>we had them trained
I dropped this game 6 fucking times because it was so boring and shitty to play, and when I did beat it I never felt good because the game is so antifun, so Id say he failed at the notion of having the players trained
But you still tried 6 times and beat it. You very much prove his point. You simply couldn't let it go. You're well trained but you believe your not.
I played through it because journalists and Ganker said "no bro, youre totally missing out on the subversive story" I already knew it was coming by the time I played it. They fucked it
>but you still le played it
had it not been for peer pressure the dogshit underselling game would not have been played and im glad the studio is dead
>im glad the studio is dead
Why did the studio close? They were working on this game and then that game but never released anything.
After level 4 you're mostly killing your fellow Americans who are also trying to save the city.
>fellow Americans who are also trying to save the city.
They kinda deserved it, should've went home instead of staying to maintain a dictatorship of sandmorons, but I guess americans can't help it
Unlike your tiny squad, they were an entire batallion with no communications with the outside world and no exit strategy. Plus they felt responsible for the locals and doubly so because half the problems were being caused by CIA fuckery and morally couldn't just up and leave.
Meanwhile, morally your job was to observe, return, and report, not involve yourself in their struggles.
>Why did the studio close?
because people realized that the game is shit and they don't want to buy another pseudo intellectual game when the market is already flooded with that ilk
>when the market is already flooded with that ilk
What other mainstream games even come close to Spec Ops: The Line?
>the point is NOT about war crimes
>it’s about the player/dev relationship and game tropes more broadly actually!
Ah, the Bioshock Infinite cope for when your story is actually dumb and doesn’t take advantage of anything it sets up to instead do the most standard stuff imaginable. Then again, the same people who deepthroated this game at launch did the same for Infinite, so it all checks out.
>read a book
>later chapters try to make me feel guilty for the bad things that happen in the book
>read on to see where they are going with it
>the point was that I could have stopped reading at any time
>this is very clever writing.
uhhhh but video games are different because you press A to turn the page
>When the game was released, some players found this choice to be unfair.
Because it was, this game is the textbook example on how to NOT do what these developers wanted to do
>They felt we, the developers, had forced them to do terrible things and were casting the blame onto them.
Yeah, cause that's what they literally did, gave no option for the player to not do what they were tempted to, it was always either do it, or you can't progress.
>These people missed the point.
No, these people saw right through your failed attempt at creating a choice the player would feel bad for...if so many players missed the point, then it means you as a developer failed to deliver it.
And sure, some might argue that the point is exactly the illusion of choice, or the illusion that what you're doing is good cause you're the good guy, but then the "lesson" or "the point" shouldnt be to blame the player, rather to make them realize that no matter how atrocious their actions were, they aren't to blame cause they were literally lead to believe their only choice was the right choice(he literally says so when he says "we trained them to believe they were the good guys"). But that's not what the game does, the game does blame the player and wants them to feel bad.
There was a little bit more going on than just the mortar.
you're were a good person gassing soldiers untill youv'e continued going full "no survivors" at up ahead
>we have to use these means to destroy our enemies
>you.. le shouldnt!
>it's my call as your superior
>ok
>*le warcrime*
>goddammit you made us kill 47 innocent civilians
>uhmm i didnt make a bad call.. because LE HEADCANON!
the game story is interesting but it's still a very mediocre TPS, maybe it would've been better as a an FPS without ever showing us Walker's reactions
You should've shut down the game right then and there. You don't have to continue playing.
>make save point
>boot up the game and burn civillians when I feel like causing some mischief
This game's only mistake in the metanarrative aspect was not having a hidden option for you to end the game as soon as your initial objective was done.
If it had better gameplay it would've been a near perfect game.
>a hidden option for you to end the game as soon as your initial objective was done.
it did have one, the power button
>a hidden option for you to end the game as soon as your initial objective was done.
it was supposed to have one but they cut it, iirc.
the game presents itself as 80 iq codslop. so when it was actual 103 iq codslop is surprised a lot of critics at the time.
Not a perfect parallel but it's sort of like the trolly problem if the other track is obscured. You see people tied to a track, a switch, and the other track goes off into the distance. You pull the lever. The trolly goes down the other track. Only that track ends on a cliff and the trolly jumps the tracks, plummets off a cliff, and lands in an orphanage and the trolly explodes for dramatic effect. Did you know that would happen? No. Should you feel bad about it? Yeah, you're human and probably not a psychopath. Your natural impulse is to try to defend your actions to release some of the guilt. "I didn't know. How could I know? I was trying to save five people." It just seems kind of empty because your action directly caused the death of a whole pile of children.
There is still a lot more going on in the game to give context to the mortar and the overall story but if you're going to hypefocus on a single event because that's all your three brain cells can handle then there ya go. Take the shitty metaphor.
>Take the shitty metaphor
you made a good point anon and i think it does apply to the context of the game and one can analyze the actions of the characters within the game
im a sucker for the heart of darkness and apocalypse now so i liked the story of the game although i saw many of its beats coming from a mile away
only shit i disliked about this back in the day was all the pseud talking points coming from the devs passing moral judgment on the players for playing a game they bought. They were using the narrative of a piece of media they created to make statement about people irl. Should people stop watching a film the moment it shows violence or else they enjoy inflicting pain on others? Should people stop reading a book if it mentions rape or else they are potential rapists? Its a stupid fucking argument
Wait is the Delta Squad vs Generic Bad Guys (who aren't actually bad guys) the thing people are focused on? I thought the issue was the villain breaking the 4th wall and pointing directly at you, the player, and saying you're a bad person for enjoying a story to its conclusion?
I don't remember that happening; the end of the game they tell the PC he's a bad person even though he was trying to do good; not (you) the player.
Murdering sandmorons is always morally correct
the funny irony of the white phosphorous is that from a self preservation perspective, its entirely necessary and justified
>infinitely many combatants are coming from location over the hill
>so too are women and children
>you will eventually be shot to death if you choose to not use the white phosphorous as infinitely many more combatants will come out
>the only way to stop them is to use the white phosphorous
bro, if there are as many as 3 guys trying to end my life, I will gladly end the lifes of 1000 innocents who chose to break bread with the 3 guys trying to kill me. Note that the first interaction you have with these dumb morons in the first chapter is supposed to be you acting as the aggressor, but if you stand around long enough they will just start fucking shooting at you.
I thought the game was pretty good. I like a little subversion. I'm not saying the game is the greatest work of art ever created but yeah, it was pretty good.
You know somebody is a pseudo intellectual if they find anything deep about this game. It's entirely fiction and they are letting themselves be emotionally manipulated for hurting fictional people. I swear the people who fall for this bullshit are easy to control and manipulate, the first to drink the kool-aid.
for underdeveloped lousy brown people no less.
>Having any other emotional response to video games besides FUN means you've been emotionally manipulated
Get a load of this flat affect brainlet.
>t. cries when dogs in movies die
ur a fag
>t. aspie thinking he's superior for not feeling emotions
ur a robot
It's normal to get a little emotional from a story, something sad happens, maybe you cry a little, but you immediately forget about it and move on because you know it's fiction. This game doesn't want you to move on, it attempts to guilt you for experiencing it, it says YOU are the problem. All these overbearing messages of guilt may make someone of a lesser emotional intelligence take precedence over the fact that it is fiction.
So it's bad for a work of fiction to have a profound effect on you?
Or is it just bad that THIS particular, deliberately manipulative piece of fiction had a profound effect on some players?
It's the shame. The fact the game is shaming YOU the player. Why would you let yourself be shamed over something you are in all reality entirely innocent of?
The consumer misinterpretation of Spec Ops is the reason why video games will never, ever be considered art.
Sorry chud, video games are legally and officially art.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Association
The masses misinterpreting art doesn't make it any less art. A piece of art being crappy doesn't make it not art, it makes it bad art.
so what would happen to Walker after he went back home? He did disobey orders, which got his squad killed. Committed a war crime with the white phosphorus... What else is there? Oh pretty sure killing cia agents and other squadrons is some kind of illegal as well. Well maybe not if they are fighting you. I dont know us army law
I mean I guess he could lie and there's basically no one left alive to even dispute him but still
elected to senate where hed sit beside national hero John Mccain before they both die of tumors
He's clearly going nuts, so lots of therapy in a remote VA hospital somewhere.
>about 3919464 barely concealed propaganda games come out around the same time that just led you down corridors to shoot at brown people and suck you off and promote you to master general super sergeant major captain for doing everything you're told without question
>one game comes out parodying it and asks the question what if what you were doing wasn't necessarily a good thing just because they put an objective marker on it
>NOOOOOO I'M A GOOD LITTLE SOLDIER THIS IS STUPID AND PRETENTIOUS AMERICANS CAN'T BE BAD IN WAR
pseuds are a pox, call of duty does this nearly every alternating game but "high minded" fags who havent touched call of duty since it left the playstation 2 think its some untouched subject. every modern warfare poses the exact same questions of morality with more finesse than Spec ops BUT THEYRE ACTUALLY FUN SO IT BAD!
Considering the absolute stranglehold the US has on the rest of the planet, I sure hope we are the good guys.
You are all wrong.
>have sex, incel
okay. *rapes*
>you're a bad person
really?
I'm having a lot of trouble digesting pseudslop but it sounds like I'm morally a better person than anyone who bought or pirated this game.
I dont think you are supossed to Insert yourself into the character. The game says the main character is evil for killing innocent people wich is true because from a story standpoint he was supossed to retreat when there was trouble but he kept on pushing. You merely control the progression of the Story.
i like how DE commie shills have been so BTFO lately that they're now just resorting to posting pictures of harry all over Ganker even when they are of no relevance.
Fuck off tankie no one believes your bullshit.
Tankies are specialists in shooting their own allies in the back for slight differences in political beliefs. No surprise they'd be out to destroy a Trotskiest game like that.
Don't the loading screen tips directly try to guilt the player?
they do, but that's okay because it's not actually YOU being guilt tripped it's the crazy american soldier guy who's being guilt tripped! isn't that totally clever?
How does that make players guilty? If it was a non linear game and bad things happened because of the path I chose I'd understand but it's not, it's a linear story.
because you kept playing it
because you bought it in the first place
because your intense love of AMERICA FUCK YEAH fps shooters caused a gaming trend for like 5 years
>because your intense love of AMERICA FUCK YEAH fps shooters caused a gaming trend for like 5 years
where's all the "(other country) FUCK YEAH) fps shooters? i guess STALKER could count as one of them
Yes, but they're well done and at that point no one had ever done that before.
Suggesting mass murder is bad is LE BAD
> Hates video game for trying to make him feel anything at all other than "fun".
Filtered tbh
> Hates video gamer for calling out failure in trying to make him feel anything
I don't mind experiencing all the emotions in games but trying to make me feel guilty for playing through a linear ass game...
This game was pretty good for the most part, but the ending sucked, and I fucking hate all the pretentious retard who act like this game is somehow high art.
It’s a game made to mock modern military shooters and the people that play them and make them have a realization that “this is bad” but it failed to understand 1. People don’t give a shit since games aren’t real and 2. Most genre deconstructions are retarded. In the end it just ended up being pretentious nonsense that drove the devs out of business.
honestly though, I enjoyed the visual tricks the game used on the player throughout and they are the only reason I ever recommend Spec Ops to anyone. I couldn't feel attacked by the meta bullshit because at the end of the day I had zero control over the narrative, it would be like feeling guilty over a movie protagonist killing somebody.
for a fps shooter it was really visually pretty. The environment in general was great. Loved going up that giant mall, that part when youre trying to get to the DJ
>visual tricks
What visual tricks? The part near the end where you start hallucinating enemy soldiers, ala Eternal Darkness?
I don't remember most of them but there are several throughout the game while Walker is on his descent into madness. Most of them were easy to miss as it's stuff like looking back and seeing people hung from pylons. Things that change subtlety when you look again. It has been over a decade since I last played it though, Spec Ops isn't that replayable.
I remember a few of them, they were nifty.
I couldn't replay it either, I was able to get through the first few chapters when you fight local militias. Once I got up to the point where I had to kill American soldiers, who I now know in retrospect aren't the bad guys, I couldn't do it.
Then advocate to get more people to vote for anti-tax parties and candidates.
>Then advocate to get more people to vote for anti-tax parties and candidates.
It has never worked and never will. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that taxation is theft and the military is an immoral organisation by being funded by it. The solution is to stop abusing children. Unmolested children's brains are far more complex than abused ones.
>Also kinda super-irrelavant here, this game is about war crimes, not taxation.
If you can't follow the conversation, stay out of it.
>The solution to the issue of taxation being theft is to stop abusing children.
That came out even father from left field than the taxation issue. I'll bite - please explain your logic.
>Unmolested children's brains are far more complex than abused ones.
I'm gonna need you to put in at least half the amount of effort I am to continue this discussion.
Nah, I'm good, I have to go outside now anyway. Have a nice day, I hope I get a chance to talk to you about taxation again one day.
what the fuck does this even mean
ive been scratching my head for a couple minutes here wonder how molested children and complex brains... is the cause of taxes?
It's a huge topic and I strongly advise you find out more about it but I'll give you some basic points. When you use force to make your children submit to your will, you teach them that they too must use force to get what they want. So they don't empathise with others and try to get a win win like you'd expect from a reasonable person, they instead resort to shouting and physical violence. They might smash another's sand castle to assert dominance or steal toys for example. They also get better at hiding undesirable actions because they have incentive to avoid your punishments. So you end up with a kid with sociopathic tendencies.
On the other hand if you teach them to negotiate and never use force unless they're about to be hit by a bus, they will develop that part of their brain that empathises and thinks more about the wider situation, what other people want and need.
How do you negotiate with a toddler? Spanking is all they understand.
For starters giving them eye contact and playing with them will increase their sense of self massively. You can do things like hand them things and copy what they're doing. The result is them seeing you as a lot like themselves. And like I said, being violent to children just makes them better at hiding their misdeeds. You only serve to make them more conniving which is the opposite of the intended goal. There are thousands of books and classes you can take on this subject.
>dude don't beat your kids it's Le child abuse it's Le bad!!!
those who didn't watched as their kids grew up to become fags chuds pornstars or enlisted in the ''wars for israel'' terrorist armies
You can do better than that.
>he self-inserted
go back to your weeb dating sims you fucking loser
Video game protagonists are supposed to be self-inserts. You're supposed to relate with the protagonist and his struggles because you are controlling him and he is your avatar in the game's world. It's not a movie.
do you self-insert as Mario when you play Mario?
do you self-insert as Sonic when you play Sonic?
you people are weird
>do you self-insert as Mario when you play Mario?
>do you self-insert as Sonic when you play Sonic?
Yes. When I'm victorious in the game, my character is as well. If I beat a level only for my character to get raped in the ass at the end, I'm gonna be pissed because the experience of my avatar is not cohesive with how I performed in the game.
>Yes
you are not Mario
you are not Sonic
you are not Walker
The player character is your avatar in the game's world, full-stop. The experiences of the player and the avatar should coincide. Did you like it when you ghosted your way through an entire level of Hitman Absolution only for Agent 47 to spill his spaghetti in the cutscene at the end and get caught? It's bullshit.
>Did you like it when you ghosted your way through an entire level of Hitman Absolution only for Agent 47 to spill his spaghetti in the cutscene at the end and get caught?
nothing wrong with that
do you want every video game character to be your perfect mary sue self-insert?
>nothing wrong with that
Stopped reading there, you're retarded. Don't reply to me again.
you are not Agent 47
>do you self-insert as Mario when you play Mario?
Yes? He is literally meant for you to be able to self insert as
Miyamoto:
>Unless you're careful, there's a tendency for games like Mario that can be played by children to gradually become childish. Those making the game tend to unconsciously make them that way.
>Taking how Mario's line can be scripted as an example, they even propose to write, "Where'd my mommy go?". When someone in their fifties like me hears their player-character speak childishly like that, it doesn't quite sit right. After all, Mario wasn't a game only for children in the first place. As I make a game, I try to keep in mind that guys in their fifties will play it, too.
I'm impressed by this bait on multiple levels.
insert a pseud post saying "bro you kept playing, therefore you are indeed a bad person" here