They completely castrated Duskwood. I will never forgive them for that. So unnecessary to make the Stitches questline a zoned experience, especially with how they made flightpaths everywhere.
>Dragon Soul >shitty story >Green Jesus >4.3 dungeons >troll dungeons of old raids >revamped zones are nonsensical dogshit or boring >one zone is literally raiders of the lost ark >Vashjir >Firelands daily hub area
BC was absolute ass, it blows my mind people enjoyed it. I really only enjoyed WotLK and vanilla, I quit and made minor returns after Cata but always unsubbed after a few days.
Based, same here anon. I got a Worgen mage to max (85?) and that was when I stopped being a huge WoW fanatic. Fricking loved vanilla and wrath though. The only time in my WoW career when I raided was Naxx but I only remember Ulduar
Literally what would you have done with them then? They weren't good guys if you consider the Alliance and Horde as the good guys. The only solution would be to have Illidan's Army as a playable 3rd faction, but the logistics of making that work would be insane.
[...]
Ruining best boy is worse than having a generic story
In retrospect, what they did to Kael'thas is no worse than what happened to Anu'barrak, Tirion, Ragnaros and all those bullshit original Mary Sue tier characters like Yrel and Nazgrim.
>Literally what would you have done with them then?
Don't move the goalpost. You said that they attempted to continue on from established lore which is false. MoP, WoD, etc did that.
Tbc and wotlk were just about getting rid of every villain in the most unceremonial and anticlimatic way.
4 years ago
Anonymous
How the frick is time travel alt Draenor and made up Pandaland continent "established lore"
Again, what the would you have done then? You have these characters in your universe who, if you take morals completely out of the equation and just focus purely on gameplay, are not good guys. The Horde and Alliance (and anyone neutral to them) are the "good guys". There would be no way, without establishing a third faction, you could include these old characters without making them antagonists towards the playable 2 factions.
4 years ago
Anonymous
>kael joins the horde >main enemies of the expansion are the Fel Horde and Kil'jaeden
4 years ago
Anonymous
Kael randomly severing his alliance with Illidan for the Horde is just as moronic as him defecting to the Legion.
4 years ago
Anonymous
>kael joins the horde
Pretty sure he hates the Horde and his connection with Jaina or Tyrande is perhaps why they killed and replaced him with an OC character.
Blood Elves joining a faction, especially Horde, is a moronic idea.
4 years ago
Anonymous
>There would be no way, without establishing a third faction, you could include these old characters without making them antagonists towards the playable 2 factions.
Why would they be antagonists towards the playable factions? I don't understand your logic
4 years ago
Anonymous
Because >Fel Horde are part of the Illidari, and Ogres are associates. so that's the Horde alliance gone >Draenei and Kael, Vash and Illidan all getting dicked over by the Alliance, so that's that gone
As a third faction, they'd work logically, but it'd be too much work for Blizzard.
Even if you, the player, has personal attachments towards them and bare no hostilities, your faction leaders do.
i would say vanilla wows story on the alliance side (human quest lines) was pretty good for a video game. You had the player going around putting out fires caused by a corrupt nobility from day 1 and by level 50-60 you find out onyxia was behind it all. Its not like its some grand novel but its good for a mmo.
Pre-Heroic nerf Cata with Blackwing Descent and Throne of the Four Winds endgame was the GOAT patch of any expansion and I say this as a player from pre-BGs Vanilla ah the way until Legion broke me for good
As someone who cata made me quit playing wow any where near seriously, (came back for 1 month for every expac), pre nerf was great.
Cc was NEEDED and all the dungeons were dope with cool strategies to get through. LFG was ass but it was still a fun game.
I hated some of the zone changes, but tbh cata probably had the best overall dungeon design.
as a casul, the most fun i've had in post-tbc wow was early cata heroics. I was tanking that shit and lemme tell you, the gameplay/class design, dungeon design, rewards, etc., were all really good. I'd come home, hit that motherfricking queue button and get those valor points and satchel with goodies.
I'll gladly say it when people start admitting that MoP was the best expansion. Best gameplay, best raids, best music, best dailies, best areas, best class design, best everything!
I was looking at the shadowlands preorder site and saw you get a hearthstone if you order the most expensive one. Does it do anything specific or is it just a new animation?
I don't remember what the gameplay was like but it had the worst concept of any expansion. Remaking the world into a destroyed state, scattering the new zones everywhere, rehashing bosses from vanilla, forcing the Twilight's Hammer everywhere, etc.
It's weird that flying in the old world was the biggest selling point of Cataclysm. Then only 2 expansions later, they tried to remove flying. Why did they have a reversal?
Because they timegate it and force you to work for it. Timegated = more money for subs. They can't make enthralling or good content so they force the stupid people who are still playing to keep playing so they can make more money.
Because people started quitting the game in droves, so they changed their philosophy to try to extract as much play time out of the remaining player base as they could. Removing flying was part of that.
>check out new bfa patch after skipping almost all of 8.2 >go to these old zones so we don’t have to spend money on making new zones >do like 5 scenarios in the same old instances so that we don’t have to spend money on making new shit
I get the lore reasons but it’s just so obvious that the game is on life support now. I alt-f4’d when they made me go through Hall of Origination or whatever the frick it’s called AGAIN just because they needed to pad it. I don’t give a frick about going back to old zones and it’s entirely because Blizzard phases them and just turns them into a mobile game tier job checklist. It’s not just about going to the zone to do shit, it’s about that zone being useful for low and high level players so that it’s always populated. Phasing completely fricks this and makes the game feel smaller. Again blizzard learns nothing. I haven’t done the raid yet but I hope that doesn’t feel like a low budget garbage dump, but I’m not holding my breath.
the only anaemic, tepid, reluctant defence I'll give BFA is they obviously planned to take n'zoth out with the ion cannon from the start, uldir and ghuun prove that. So it's not like they entirely asspulled that.
The biggest problem with cataclysm is they caved to the whiners that group content was "too hard" then they nerfed everything and people blew through content at an unforeseen level of speed. Which is why everyone got bored.
Sort of not really. It let a lot more players see the lich King raid, but the number was stupid low that could clear it beforehand. While the cata nerf made HEROICS trivial
I actually am inclined to agree with you. Cata PVP was that nice sweet spot where DKs were somewhat fixed, healers were not raid bosses and the old talent system was still in.
Cata was good.
Dragon soul was the only bad patch (admittedly a very long very bad patch).
The raids were good (firelands top 5 raid) the 5 mans were good. PvP was good.
The only people who dislike cata are secondarys that are told that new = bad and cata is subjectively where new starts. If you actually played it you know it was good.
cata was better than wod/legion/bfa, though the patch tech was much worse back then so it took them 3 months to fix anything and it pissed everyone off very quickly
LFD is what ruined the Cata dungeons, they shouldn't have been on LFD like Mythics, but Blizzard forced everyone to use LFD with satchels and bonus valor, the experience was terrible like LFD always is, so they went ahead and ruined the dungeons.
>Play with a guild >Laugh at puglets in cesspool guilds refusing to heal or tank crying about wiping and queue times >If had to use LFD I could just go blood and solo the whole instance no matter how shit the randoms were
Loving every laugh shitter.
It's not the worst one but that's like saying but that's like saying that brain cancer isn't necessarily the worst way to die.
It is, however, the point where WoW's design philosophy took a massive turn for the worse and began the game's neverending downward spiral into mediocrity.
Why would I admit a lie?
It had its upsides and downsides like every other expansion. I don't consider it the best but I enjoyed it more than most of the others.
>like every other expansion
nah, some are just downsides
unless you consider getting subs cancelled an upside. I guess it might be one.
At this point I do considered that an upside.
Frick you Cata killed WoW those redone zone are a joke.
The zones were fine. Not having the option to level up in the old world was the problem.
They completely castrated Duskwood. I will never forgive them for that. So unnecessary to make the Stitches questline a zoned experience, especially with how they made flightpaths everywhere.
Mop was better, you could invest more into the stats you wanted (100% mastery or 50% haste)
Except monks need a nerf there
>Dragon Soul
>shitty story
>Green Jesus
>4.3 dungeons
>troll dungeons of old raids
>revamped zones are nonsensical dogshit or boring
>one zone is literally raiders of the lost ark
>Vashjir
>Firelands daily hub area
>shitty story
WoW never had a good story
You cant get any worse than generic deep voiced dragon wants to destroy the world. Well at the time but WOD and BFA proved that wrong.
>You cant get any worse than generic deep voiced dragon wants to destroy the world.
Kael (tbc) and Arthas (wotlk) disagree.
I would argue Cata is the main turning point for major story quality. TBC and Wrath at least attempted to continue on from established lore.
Ruining best boy is worse than having a generic story
BC was absolute ass, it blows my mind people enjoyed it. I really only enjoyed WotLK and vanilla, I quit and made minor returns after Cata but always unsubbed after a few days.
Based, same here anon. I got a Worgen mage to max (85?) and that was when I stopped being a huge WoW fanatic. Fricking loved vanilla and wrath though. The only time in my WoW career when I raided was Naxx but I only remember Ulduar
BC was great and perfected the vanilla formula. Shame about flying though.
They didn't continue jackshit. They just wrapped up every story arc of wc3 and wc2 by turning everyone into a loot pinata.
At least they didn't make up some furgay races
Literally what would you have done with them then? They weren't good guys if you consider the Alliance and Horde as the good guys. The only solution would be to have Illidan's Army as a playable 3rd faction, but the logistics of making that work would be insane.
In retrospect, what they did to Kael'thas is no worse than what happened to Anu'barrak, Tirion, Ragnaros and all those bullshit original Mary Sue tier characters like Yrel and Nazgrim.
>Literally what would you have done with them then?
Don't move the goalpost. You said that they attempted to continue on from established lore which is false. MoP, WoD, etc did that.
Tbc and wotlk were just about getting rid of every villain in the most unceremonial and anticlimatic way.
How the frick is time travel alt Draenor and made up Pandaland continent "established lore"
Again, what the would you have done then? You have these characters in your universe who, if you take morals completely out of the equation and just focus purely on gameplay, are not good guys. The Horde and Alliance (and anyone neutral to them) are the "good guys". There would be no way, without establishing a third faction, you could include these old characters without making them antagonists towards the playable 2 factions.
>kael joins the horde
>main enemies of the expansion are the Fel Horde and Kil'jaeden
Kael randomly severing his alliance with Illidan for the Horde is just as moronic as him defecting to the Legion.
>kael joins the horde
Pretty sure he hates the Horde and his connection with Jaina or Tyrande is perhaps why they killed and replaced him with an OC character.
Blood Elves joining a faction, especially Horde, is a moronic idea.
>There would be no way, without establishing a third faction, you could include these old characters without making them antagonists towards the playable 2 factions.
Why would they be antagonists towards the playable factions? I don't understand your logic
Because
>Fel Horde are part of the Illidari, and Ogres are associates. so that's the Horde alliance gone
>Draenei and Kael, Vash and Illidan all getting dicked over by the Alliance, so that's that gone
As a third faction, they'd work logically, but it'd be too much work for Blizzard.
Even if you, the player, has personal attachments towards them and bare no hostilities, your faction leaders do.
>MoP, WoD, etc did that.
Kael was a good guy. Illidan was an butthole but he didn't want to take over Azeroth.
>Tirion
Are you seriously comparing a wc3 character with that asspull mary sue trash?
i would say vanilla wows story on the alliance side (human quest lines) was pretty good for a video game. You had the player going around putting out fires caused by a corrupt nobility from day 1 and by level 50-60 you find out onyxia was behind it all. Its not like its some grand novel but its good for a mmo.
>shitty story
Did you even play tbc or wotlk?
Uldum was fricking wasted on pop culture homosexualry yes I'm still mad
Pre-Heroic nerf Cata with Blackwing Descent and Throne of the Four Winds endgame was the GOAT patch of any expansion and I say this as a player from pre-BGs Vanilla ah the way until Legion broke me for good
This.
As someone who cata made me quit playing wow any where near seriously, (came back for 1 month for every expac), pre nerf was great.
Cc was NEEDED and all the dungeons were dope with cool strategies to get through. LFG was ass but it was still a fun game.
I hated some of the zone changes, but tbh cata probably had the best overall dungeon design.
as a casul, the most fun i've had in post-tbc wow was early cata heroics. I was tanking that shit and lemme tell you, the gameplay/class design, dungeon design, rewards, etc., were all really good. I'd come home, hit that motherfricking queue button and get those valor points and satchel with goodies.
I'll gladly say it when people start admitting that MoP was the best expansion. Best gameplay, best raids, best music, best dailies, best areas, best class design, best everything!
MoP started the prune and homogenization of legendaries so it can enjoy being third place behind early Cata and Vanilla respectively
People always asked for that kind of legendaries tho.
Forum casuals aren't people
Yeah it made me give up on WoW and recoup a massive amount of time. 10/10 expansion.
I was looking at the shadowlands preorder site and saw you get a hearthstone if you order the most expensive one. Does it do anything specific or is it just a new animation?
New animation most likely. The last 2 years the new holiday event rewards have been new hearthstone toys.
man the most expensive one seems like such a scam then, what were they thinking?
It had ups and down. But my God is BFA a fricking dumpster fire. WoWtards are conflicted if BFA is worse than WOD when it clearly is.
I don't remember what the gameplay was like but it had the worst concept of any expansion. Remaking the world into a destroyed state, scattering the new zones everywhere, rehashing bosses from vanilla, forcing the Twilight's Hammer everywhere, etc.
>the wow cycle comes around again
Quazimodo predicted all this
It's weird that flying in the old world was the biggest selling point of Cataclysm. Then only 2 expansions later, they tried to remove flying. Why did they have a reversal?
Because they timegate it and force you to work for it. Timegated = more money for subs. They can't make enthralling or good content so they force the stupid people who are still playing to keep playing so they can make more money.
Because people started quitting the game in droves, so they changed their philosophy to try to extract as much play time out of the remaining player base as they could. Removing flying was part of that.
No. Jay Wilson sucks ass. Glad he is out of the industry forever
>check out new bfa patch after skipping almost all of 8.2
>go to these old zones so we don’t have to spend money on making new zones
>do like 5 scenarios in the same old instances so that we don’t have to spend money on making new shit
I get the lore reasons but it’s just so obvious that the game is on life support now. I alt-f4’d when they made me go through Hall of Origination or whatever the frick it’s called AGAIN just because they needed to pad it. I don’t give a frick about going back to old zones and it’s entirely because Blizzard phases them and just turns them into a mobile game tier job checklist. It’s not just about going to the zone to do shit, it’s about that zone being useful for low and high level players so that it’s always populated. Phasing completely fricks this and makes the game feel smaller. Again blizzard learns nothing. I haven’t done the raid yet but I hope that doesn’t feel like a low budget garbage dump, but I’m not holding my breath.
the only anaemic, tepid, reluctant defence I'll give BFA is they obviously planned to take n'zoth out with the ion cannon from the start, uldir and ghuun prove that. So it's not like they entirely asspulled that.
cataclysm would have been fine, if not for weak raid tiers and nerfing the entire expansion 3 months in.
The biggest problem with cataclysm is they caved to the whiners that group content was "too hard" then they nerfed everything and people blew through content at an unforeseen level of speed. Which is why everyone got bored.
Didn't 3.3 do this though with the ICC debuffs?
Sort of not really. It let a lot more players see the lich King raid, but the number was stupid low that could clear it beforehand. While the cata nerf made HEROICS trivial
Yes Cata had the best PvP until Dragon Soul. MoP is where the game started to go downhill
I actually am inclined to agree with you. Cata PVP was that nice sweet spot where DKs were somewhat fixed, healers were not raid bosses and the old talent system was still in.
Blizz knows their game is so shit they won't even let me pay them to play it
Cata was good.
Dragon soul was the only bad patch (admittedly a very long very bad patch).
The raids were good (firelands top 5 raid) the 5 mans were good. PvP was good.
The only people who dislike cata are secondarys that are told that new = bad and cata is subjectively where new starts. If you actually played it you know it was good.
Cata was the first sign that something was very, very wrong at Blizz. Every game since has been worse than the last.
cata was better than wod/legion/bfa, though the patch tech was much worse back then so it took them 3 months to fix anything and it pissed everyone off very quickly
to a casual shitter like me it was a great fricking expansion
but with the 4.3 it kinda stopped being fun
LFD is what ruined the Cata dungeons, they shouldn't have been on LFD like Mythics, but Blizzard forced everyone to use LFD with satchels and bonus valor, the experience was terrible like LFD always is, so they went ahead and ruined the dungeons.
>Play with a guild
>Laugh at puglets in cesspool guilds refusing to heal or tank crying about wiping and queue times
>If had to use LFD I could just go blood and solo the whole instance no matter how shit the randoms were
Loving every laugh shitter.
It's not the worst one but that's like saying but that's like saying that brain cancer isn't necessarily the worst way to die.
It is, however, the point where WoW's design philosophy took a massive turn for the worse and began the game's neverending downward spiral into mediocrity.
So yeah, frick Cata.
even legion was a better expac
now lets not get crazy
Played since vanilla. Legion was actually fun to raid and Mythic15+ in. Cata was boring. But had fun dungeons.