TTRPG With the best magic system.
Become the ruler of a small medieval community while thretening everyone to leave you alone ancap style.
What is a good place to conquer and rule?
In my opinion the canary islands are the perfect place for a magical kingdom.
There is of course a printed sort-off adventure for Canary Islands, in Ancent Magic. Never actually played it out but looks seems likea good premise. Although the Order forbids what you suggest. Isnt it enough to have a automonous covenat somwhere remote?
You can actually get away with it in the islands because of several loopholes.
1 the Canary islands don't belong to any tribunal.
2 The order still loosely enforces the "join or die rule" on all other magical traditions and the islands are ruled by magic users so by making them bend the knee to the order you can control all their lands.
I love Ars Magica but it's difficult to find players who really engage with all the great things the system has to offer. I'm planning to start a campaign with a friend soon so hopefully that goes well.
>difficult to find players who really engage with all the great things the system has to offer
Can you give examples of those things? I always see Ars magica being praised, but i don't know any details except "best magic system"
The magic system allows for a lot of creativity because of its "Noun + Verb" mechanic. Essentially, you have points in 5 Techniques (Creo, Perdo, Muto, Rego, Intellego) and 10 Forms (Aqua, Ignem, Terram, Auram, Corpus, Mentem, Imaginem, Animal, Herbam, Vim).
Let's take Creo + Ignem, for example. You could use it to throw a fireball, but also to create light, or to warm yourself up during an expedition through snowy mountains. Swap Creo for Perdo and you could use it to freeze someone by removing all the heat from their body. The idea is for people to find creative ways to combine those Techniques and Forms, and the game gives you some good guidelines to help you with that.
Other than creating your own spells, the game offers guidelines for creating magic items, binding familiars, extending your lifespan with longevity rituals, writing books, training apprentices, etc. If you just want to show up to throw dice and don't engage with any of that, you're not playing the game to its full potential.
NTA but one thing I have been wanting to try lately is to make a rego specialist.
He is extremely bad or incapable of using Creo and perdo.
I think it would be fun to play around with him having to cope with only using whatever he has around him to survive.
I played one for a while. Was an autist Criamon, recently out of gauntlet, whose master believed that
>The world was created in a state where we can solve the Enigma;
>God would not give us a world that was not able to be Solved.
>Consider that in a game of chess, even if you take pieces off the board or promote them, the pieces are still part of the game
>Thus, Muto is fine but Creo and Perdo are Wrong. Incorect. Add nothing new, remove nothing old. Understand the world, it already is within your grasp to complete the challenges before you.
He was a fun character. Almost entirely Intellego/Rego.
Speaking of the Enigma, how does everyone prefer to play it? I came to Ars Magica late, but I've read that 5th Edition giving out actual answers as to what it is was controversial.
NTA but I understand that it is not really controversial but 5e kinda makes it clear that criamon was completely wrong.
There is no cycle of suffering that can be escaped outside time as judeo christian religions are right and you only have one life, once it is over you are judged and that's it.
So criamon magi are unknowingly just navel gasing magi that despite that have managed to uncover mysteries of the magical realm.
So in a sense any answer to the enigma that your criamon comes to is as valid as any other.
>as judeo christian religions are right
That's lame, shit like that should be left ambiguous
It is left ambiguous to a point.
For example israelites, christians and musslims all follow the same god and are blessed by the divine but also have distinct rules and fight constantly because of them.
So the one thng we can be sure is that God exists, he is the supreme being in the world and he has the best intentions for humanity.
But does God allow polygamy?
He both blesses it according to musslims and curses it according to christians.
Maybe he only dissaproves of sex outside marriage?
Or sex that tarnishes sacred vows of marriage?
Does the infernal work for him in a sense?
Are they completely opposed and the latter is just an infernal lie?
There is alot of room for ambiguity
I think Zoroastrians also get divine power as well, so it's not just an Abrahamic thing.
Well, that just killed any interest in this system.
Why?
The interplay between the 4 realms gives the setting alot of flavor.
The divine is all good and powerful but wants people to come to it voluntarily.
The infernal hates everything wants nothing more than to make everyone suffer and will use every trick to make you self destruct
Faerie is a reflection of humanity itself and it's imagination.
And magic is possibly the realm of ideas and potential ever perfecting itself
You are right they are just an example.
Cathars also are divine as well as certain gnostics and even a possible hermetic religion revering The Unconquered Sun.
It seems the requirements to have a divine religion is that it worships a unique all good creator oposed to a force of evil.
>Why?
I was already on the fence (had been reading up on 4e) because it's set on Earth with all the Order and House stuff. Plus, there's the whole limits of magic vs. higher divinity (now I know why) and the deference given to piety and faith. It all rubs me the wrong way despite liking the limits on resurrection, verb flexibility, mage-companion dynamic, and so on. I can probably houserule enough to make it work, but the divine stuff just sours it for me.
Not to be a c**t but if I understand your point the. you are mad that the divine is clearly superior to magic?
If so I do get it but the game is highly customizable you can completely ignore the divine (outside of stuff like it having divine auras protecting most towns and cities) or use it as sporadically as you want.
I just see it as another possible source for conflict like the infernal or faerie.
Besides only direct intervention by God aka miracles are invisible you can kill angels if you want they are not all powerful.
NTA but, well, the game is called Ars Magica, not Ars Divina. Why would anyone bother with magic if the divine is clearly superior? And giving a straight answer to the Enigma is just stupid, things like this are always better left ambiguous. It's like the Horus Heresy books
AlAbout the divine.
God is superior but that doesn't mean that for example a priest is able to dunk on magi.
On the contrary magic is tremendously powerful and the divine rarely does anything against magicians as magic is not by itself evil like kings using their power also don't get blasted by thunder the moment they abuse their power.
The biggest problem that the divine poses to the order (besides the limit of the divine and it's associated minor limits that is possible to surpass.) is the church and their influence on global politics.
Magi are the people that hold the most personal power in all of the setting.
Even saints have to follow strict rules or lose their divine favor.
And about the Enigma the point of it is that it has no answer yet the followers of criamon have been able to create magic bordering on the divine they can become perfectly immortal without becoming supernatural creatures for example.
Just because they seek an answer that doesn't exists doesn't mean all that they have accomplished is for nothing.
The magic realm holds infinite potential as the divine holds infinite power.
>Cathars
>gnostics
>opposed to a force of evil
Uh uh, pull the other one.
Being fair there is also an example of infernal Gnostics in the infernal book.
I don't remember but there might even be stats for a demon passing himself as God.
And there are also Gnostics on the side of magic with their pinnacle being turning yourself into a powerful daemonic spirit inhabitant of the throne of heroes.
Ars being a Fate prequel is not a thought I wanted in my head today.
That's a parallel I found really funny. When I discovered the throne of heroes is a thing there too I had a good laugh.
That's why being a theurgist is the most based kind of magic.
You can summon heroic spirits to make deals with.
Titanoi summoning is cooler imo, but yeah. I swear I'm gonna play a Titanoi some day. Just need a group first...
But that's theurgy too isn't it?
Cathars, Bogumils and long-forgotten Marcionite church were essentially edgier version of their respective orthodox tradition. They're still Christians.
The problem with Ars Magica is the fact that thanks to the social compact you're not really allowed to do anything interesting. Like Mage Ascension is more interesting because you have the forces of law vs the forces of chaos. With Mage Awakening you have the conflict of breaking out the prison of reality. With Ars Magica you get to either play politics with the other orders or do exploration/experimentation with no social contact and for no particular purpose. There's no overarching theme to it.
That's part of the GM's job, establishing what the overarching theme of the chronicle will be. The default play mode may be "magical scholars establish their covenant and pursue their goals," but I've seen games about a group of young magi traveling around the world, or repelling an invasion by the Mongols and their shamans.
Sometimes it even changes between story arcs. My game was the default style, but one of my fellow PCs was pursuing immortality by transforming herself into a spirit, which involved chasing down legends, artifacts, and material components. And since she was our covenant's longevity ritual expert, everyone was willing to help out on these adventures. A good excuse to get out of the tower.
>or repelling an invasion by the Mongols and their shamans
Based.
The thing is Ars Magica campaigns tend to be a bit larger in scope. The game is designed so you play through a large portion of your magi's lives, after all, not just a few years. Maybe even have their apprentices take over their work after they die. The game sort of encourages you to keep a lot of plates spinning since individual conflicts might take years to resolve. That's why having a very clear "this is what all stories should center around" would mostly be a detriment to the game, in my opinion. But it does make it a bit harder for the GM and the players who have to be a bit more proactive with their goals.
Seconding this. I've found Ars works best with smaller scope adventures that seem unconnected that build to a greater scenario/conspiracy. And the social compact is very much troupe dependent. Sure, magi swear not to "interfere with the affairs of the mundane and thereby bring ruin upon their sodales" but, if say some part of the group wants to explore what happens when magi do interfere, what defines ruin? The heart of drama is conflict, after all, and such a scenario is rife with both. Plus, those less interested with involving their magi in those particular stories should have plans of their own while having companions thar support the other 'main plot'. If anything, Ars doesn't do a great job of really having a great introduction into the 'standard ' order of play and adventure design like D&D due to the breadth of various, viable stories that are available from the start. A Lost Mines style adventure that captures the heart of Ars.
Not really you have the such a breath of options that is overwhelming.
You could play as for example the idea of funding a magical kingdom for magi in a far away place that does not have a tribunal or be demonologists breaking every rule but hiding in plain sight thanks to your demonic patrons.
It's all up to you really.
It's not like everyone in the order immediately knows whenever someone breaks the rules, hell they still depend on redcaps carrying letters to communicate.
And in the corebook it is plainly said that you can customize how strictly the order enforces it's rules from a highly organized and tightly run order to a lose coalition of ancaps that barely bother messing with one another.
>It's not like everyone in the order immediately knows whenever someone breaks the rules
This is the key, they talk about it more in the House Book 1 and in the Lords of Men supplement if you want to read more about "Interference"
>With Ars Magica you get to either play politics with the other orders or do exploration/experimentation with no social contact and for no particular purpose. There's no overarching theme to it.
The game is designed to have the Magi deal with Order politics, lab work, or go out and deal with high paygrade level issues and threats. That's if you even deal with a normal mage, you can play someone with the Gental Gift and a house that likes to deal with others like House Tytalus or Jerbiton.
For normal magi or one that wants to deal with specific stuff. the lower paygrade stuff is where Companions and grogs come in. Missing girl in the woods? Grog adventure. Want to deal with Game of Thrones-level politics? Noble Land-owning Companion can let you play stories like that.
Exactly what I came into this thread to say. I've been having tons of fun making OC spells in Adventurer Conqueror King System, and this part of Ars Magica interests me greatly. But I cannot for the life of me grok what an Ars Magica session is supposed to look like. Part of it is a setting thing too, the real world is boring. I'm not a history buff, I only read history for the purpose of stealing ideas for fantasy.
Imagine a game where you're like Merlin or Gandalf. People come to you for help and advice. Heroes need your guidance and magic for their quest. Your rival wizards can't help but frick shit up, and you're the only guy who can fix it. Now THAT sounds fun. Meanwhile, I'm in my lonely tower, studying books of magic to one day become immortal, my neighbors are abbey monks and they're so annoying. That shit sounds boring.
Infernal, Faerie creatures, Dragons, Regios, you don't need to make a political campaign.
And them the fun in having your char study and learn shit is for those moments, if you are a shitter that prefer to stay in your tower studying because it's more efficient then it's on you.
NTA
This I also have a feeling that the people complaining that Ars is just you sitting on your tower forever are power gamers that don't want their wizard to go outside to have as many XP points as possible and then complain they haven't gone adventuring.
How does the magic system work in ACK?
Not that anon, but ACKS spellcasting uses D&D per diem bullshit.
The available spellcasters are crusader, priestess, mage, warlock, shaman, witch, and some demihuman variants. Casting is divided into studious (intellect; mage, witch, warlock) and prayerful (will; crusader, priestess, shaman). The system supports inherited casting (charisma), but such classes have to be created. Studious casters get a pittance of spells per day and a repertoire of spells to choose from (spells-per-day + intellect modifier). In order to keep repertoire spells in memory, a studious caster must study his spellbook each day. In the first edition of ACKS, all mages were assumed to be apprenticed to a master and received new spells from him, but the new edition acknowledges that DIY casters might be able to steal spell formulae to get new spells. Magic research can begin at level five with potion brewing, scroll scribing, and spell research (there's a proficiency you can take to research as early as 3rd level). Basic b***h magic item creation opens up at level 9 and the real experimentation (breeding monsters, reanimating undead, etc.) begins at level 11 (out of a maximum of level 14).
It's a good system in general, but the magic side is shackled with D&D dna and ACKS revolving around Conan-types.
There are alternative magic systems in ACKS. The new edition has rules for making your own magic system IIRC. On-the-fly casting is possible too.
>Imagine a game where you're like Merlin or Gandalf. People come to you for help and advice. Heroes need your guidance and magic for their quest. Your rival wizards can't help but frick shit up, and you're the only guy who can fix it.
That's an entirely valid plot setup for Ars Magica. My wizard was eager to get out the tower and banish demons or fell giants or bone half-giants or meet dragons or lay ghosts to rest. The tower is downtime, the stuff that happens between adventures, that's why the game abstracts it into seasons rather than go day-by-day.
It would be nice if adventures gave more experience, but there is a balance to be had between research and application. "Study for a year, then go adventuring for a year" kind of thing.
>That's an entirely valid plot setup for Ars Magica.
Still deals with the boring real world. I skimmed Mythic Tales of Europe and not a single prompt made me go "wow I'd love to run/play that".
I kind of understand you but its such a weird example because stuff like the myths of king Arthur are literally what mythic Europe is based around.
I've only ever played in 3 campaigns, but I've never bothered to play as a henchman or follow mage laws in any of them. I just had my mage handle every unusual event personally. Somehow never caused a problem, probably because I never went around causing trouble.
>Magegay
>Awful opinion
Checks out.
Are there any TTRPGs that have magic systems even half as good as Ars Magica’s?
Only the mage mages in my opinion.
But they kind of suck because they suffer from the "Reality is subjective" trope that ruins everything.
Ars is superior because there reality is what it is and you have to deal with it but can find ways to do things that others tought impossible and it actually feels awesome.
>Ars is superior because there reality is what it is and you have to deal with it but can find ways to do things that others tought impossible and it actually feels awesome.
The setting also deals with Magi as a faction that exists out in the world so you don't have to deal with a Masquerade type of law except for something like interference.
That's a good point too.
Everyone knows magic is real and there are supernatural creatures around.
The order is "secret" only in that they try to avoid angering organizations or beings that could mess with them or at least make sure they never think about trying to mess with the order.
And of course they don't go around spreading their magical secrets.
>Everyone knows magic is real and there are supernatural creatures around.
I just really like the concept of "We know there is a monster in the woods after dark so we don't go there but its been attacking the village so we sent someone to the weird castle in the other forest for the wizards so they can maybe deal with it."
>ancap style
You didn't have to make it sound cringe
>tfw to dumb too play ars magica
It looks so fun but frick me dead the shit is complicated
You can do it bro!
Go back to plebbit with your filthy, hypocritical toxic positivity.
This anon is right! You can do it!! And we might be able to help! What part seems most complicated?
>It looks so fun but frick me dead the shit is complicated
You got this bro, I come from a Mage the Ascension background and was a little intimidated by the rules, but many of them make sense and click once you use them in play.
Im 8 sessions in my Ars Magica game that takes place in Mythic Ireland, its been fun so far. Im a big Mage fan so the system clicked easily for me.
Cool what kind of magic are you playing?
>Cool what kind of magic are you playing?
Im running it and everyone is new to the system so we decided to go with a Spring Covenant so a lot of the characters have broad arts right now.
that's a good way to start
Once they see what they like they can specialize.
So comparing both magic systems which one do you like more?
>So comparing both magic systems which one do you like more?
Mage is easier as a whole because every dot in a sphere is just a paragraph or two and then it's just up to the table to decide so it's earlier in general to run but for people looking for guidance or aren't that good at using Freeform magic it can be rough.
I want Ars Magica's mechanics in the modern world of darkness. Technique and Form is really easy to get newer people into the magic system than just looking at Forces 3 and saying "It lets you transmute one force to another force." Plus creating magic items in Mage requires knowing like Prime 4, Matter 3, plus all the spheres for the effect you want to item, which is only end-game stuff or you need to start powerful vs Ars Magica just letting you use Lab time to make it.
>TTRPG With the best magic system.
TLDR what is Ars Magica's magic system?
>TLDR what is Ars Magica's magic system?
Freeform magic with guidelines and sample list of spells where you take a Verb + Noun to cast magic.
For example, Create + Fire/Light/Heat would let you create flames, light to read at night, or Heat to warm yourself when camping at night but don't want to be spotted with a fire.
Everyone has skills in the different Hermetic Arts, which are verbs and nouns. Destroy + Humans for hurting others or destroying a property of them such as weight or solidity. What makes it great is that it gives you guidelines so you aren't just guessing in the dark and each combination has at least a handful of spells as examples for Storyguides and Players. You can also create your spells by picking out effects and changing things like target, range, and duration of effect. Each adds or subtracts 5 levels of the spell depending on where you move it.
Basically what
Said.
You have techniques that are ways to affect the forms they are.
Creo= I create
Perdo= I destroy
Muto= I change
Rego= I control
Intellego= I understand
Then you choose a form that represents the target of the effect.
Animal= Animals
Aquam= Water/liquids
Auram= Air/climate
Corpus= Humanoid bodies
Herbam= Plants
Ignem= Fire
Imaginem= Sensations/Illusions
Mentem= Intelligent minds
Terram= Earth and most physical objects
Vim= Magic itself and spirits
So you can just mix and match to create a bunch of different effects like:
"I destroy fire" to destroy the heat in a body of water to freeze it.
"I understand earth" to talk with a dagger left behind by a killer to get clues about who he is.
Muto weakest technique don't @ me.
another sad victim of the Perdo Mentem shadow cabal.
Spurdo Spärdem!
I deglare Gerdamen!
Yeah but barely. Just because you can achieve a similar effect by combining Rego and/or Creo, doesn't mean using Muto isn't much easier.
Forgot to add, if it's really bothering you, houserule it so that Muto's casting totals are slightly lower than the other forms.
Say that to me and my four homies' faces when we cast Wizard's Communion to empower a ritual that causes all the earth beneath your tower to become air for a few minutes, penetrating your ageis because the necessary level was reduced to 10.
Wizard's Communion is both the best and worst thing in the system.
Wizards communion is both busted and extremely restrictive.
Yeah you kind of have to have everyone on board with it.
Or have a big maybe summer or autumn covenant with npc magi to give your PC a hand.
I just wish my covenant actually used it. We've got two magi who are capable of it, and that's just not enough for the stuff we actually need Wizard's Communion for
.
Any Atelier series fan here? The atelier with autistic crafting and studying, mentors and materials(vis) reminds me of Ars Magica.
It’s fricking insane how much better an RPG gets when you use the simple trick of imagining all of the characters as anime girls.
The Gift would make you hate her even if she was a cute anime girl.
That’s fine with me. I hated my last girlfriend, too.
Actually, she would have the Gentle Gift you see...
How much do you stat enemies and other magi, or you just roll more or less depending on what you expect the NPC magus skills to be?