This better not be one of those situations where the translator thinks he's a comedian and writer all of a sudden.
I fricking hate translators that don't know their place. If you want to be a writer then go write your own shit, don't go fricking up some other person's work.
>read something >like it >consider that it may not be a 100% accurate translation >suddenly the merits that made you like it are now in a Schrodinger's cat situation until this external factoid is verified
What a sad post.
>>read something >>like it >>like it
Do we now? Might as well share chad meme to make sure we do.
If people liked it failed writer would be an actual writer.
The difference is if it's Japan the odds are some peaceful old couple may live in that house but if it's America the denizens of that house are probably on meth and ready to stab you.
I don't think you need to explain the actual differences regrading setting. At that point you could even change the time period. They are making stupid arguments because there is no proper arguments for what they are arguing for.
these kinds of localizations are moronic but there's a 100% bulletproof solution to the issue, you don't get to be a purist while playing a translation
>you don't get to be a purist while playing a translation
Yes, we do. That's what translation is. Look at book translations. They have figured these things long before. Failed writers were trying to insert their writing in books as well. The answer is always the same. Literal translation is always better.
literal J > E translation and vice versa is not possible, a certain degree of leeway is necessary and who gets to decide the extent of that? the scale of liberties taken goes from moderate to severe and translators have no choice but to pick somewhere on that spectrum. if you want to play "purely" as intended you better start studying. for entertaining children in the 90s with no internet who won't know or care, making the text fun to read is simply the better choice
>if you want to play "purely" as intended you better start studying.
Well that is certainly needed to enjoy anything up to a degree. You need to know of 1980s Japan to enjoy Akira and Evangelion.
At the same time when people start watching anime many don't know -chan, -kun and so on. It doesn't make them enjoy it less, and as the time goes people start appreciating it even more.
I agree Japanese can't be literally translated to English, but less changes is always better. People don't start to panic for not understating frivolous details. It's generally confusing parts that needs to be made clear. Like philosophical messages. Which in fact is the main reason we need translations. You can't learn languages at that high level. Even when you do, if you stop using it for some time those parts start falling off.
I remember reading a research that humans can learn only 2 languages at very high level. That's including mother language. You start losing high levels of secondary languages pretty fast. Sometimes people forget languages completely.
Btw my mother language isn't even English. I've decided that English is simply a superior language. So I haven't been reading books in my mother language for years.
borges shits in your mouth directly
Yeah why bother reading Don Quixote in original language when you can like millions of others. Original work has to be flawed in someway.
The difference is if it's Japan the odds are some peaceful old couple may live in that house but if it's America the denizens of that house are probably on meth and ready to stab you.
That's not what I said moron, they're job is to be faithful and knowing more than one language I know you can't just translate everything perfectly but that does not excuse making shit up like it belongs to you. Nothing worse than a someone that instead of doing their job takes the opportunity to make something all about themselves with something that doesn't belong to them. That entitled bullshit is always terrible.
No, show me what they created. I don't need some homosexual to censor and filter things to their preference before letting the rest of the world see it. I know japanese things can get really weird and if I don't want to see that crazy japanese shit I won't play their games, it'll be my choice, not some person deciding for me what I should want to see.
Nothing is worse than entitled person, who did not participate in the creative process and hard work of making something, deciding for others what part of other people's work should and should not be allowed, fixed, or "improved".
NTA and not gay, but no. I don't want anything removed. I want the original contents preserved and translated as reasonably as possible. Likewise I don't want anything added either, if the original did not have a gay scene and one was added or characters suddenly speak in zoomer lingo like many translators these days are doing I would not be happy either.
I want the original to be kept and translated as accurately as possible, regardless if the original contains things I don't like or if they wanted to add things that I would like.
The most changes I am ok with are what I said in
Normally I prefer an accurate translation, but if the original text is full of jokes and references that would not make sense I am not against trying to put an equivalent localized joke there. It's when stuff is changed for no reason, adds memes and zoomer lingo, or to try to to push an agenda that was clearly not in the original that I can't stand it.
E.G. I recall a manga where an overworked officer was being called out on the field again after having just come back from another extra assignment and said something along the lines of "Do you see an S on my chest?" Clearly that Superman reference was not in the original, but I assume it was a reference to a similar Japanese superhero that most people outside of Japan would have no idea what it means so I am fine with something like that.
Pulling shit like pic related though I hate.
where if it's some kind of reference or joke or idiom that would not translate but there is an equivalent joke/idiom/reference that can be made in it's place.
>suddenly speak in zoomer lingo like many translators these days are doing
This complaint is always levied at games like NTWEWY when it is totally justified there. TWEWY was about millennial urban culture, and the English translation reflected this; NWEWY is about zoomer urban culture, and the English translation also reflects this. If you'd rather every dialogue box use entirely untranslated Japanese slang and idioms, learn Japanese.
5 months ago
Anonymous
No it's not, I would not have an issue with TWEWY because it fits, but look up examples of what "localizers" are doing to anime and games these days. Picrel from a game that takes place in a medieval setting. Similar lingo in anime too lately.
5 months ago
Anonymous
If I wanted to listen to Black person lingo I would play a GTA game.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Picrel from a game that takes place in a medieval setting.
Wrong. This game takes place in a fantasy settings inspired by modern Taiwan and is a fan translation.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Still a fantasy setting and a fan translator is still supposed to translate, not meme up the game.
I laughed about the joke in OP. It has a slightly dark humor. I prefer that than a boring description like "enemy a works for the imperial arlmy and is weak to fire". Seethe troony.
Accuracy is a spook. What matters is whether it's good, which is independent of accuracy
5 months ago
Anonymous
No what matters is whether it is accurate. The job of translator is to make sure one work can be understood from another language or from an older time period. You don't go to 15th century and start censoring stuff to make it less "problematic" the same way you don't go and "fix" culture from somewhere else. What difference whether one joke land or not makes? What truly matters is the core of the story. With your idea of translating main part is getting damaged. You can't improve that with better writing. Sometimes bad parts also add up to overall picture. Things need to stand out even if they are bad.
5 months ago
Anonymous
No thanks I want to enjoy a better product, without the aforementioned scatological gay sex scene.
5 months ago
Anonymous
There is no product left with those kinds of localization. What you've got left with is just some cheap knock off.
It lacks highs of an English work or a Japanese work with better translation.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Accuracy is a spook
Frick off, locucklizaton tool.
An NPC wouldn't be able to understand that there is value in things being uniquely shit. And that by changing something to make it "better" is actually just going to make it strange, generic, or shit.
But I'm willing to be wrong, instead of pissing around with hypotheticals, let's get specific. Can you name any examples of a translation making changes that actually improve a story?
You wouldn't say that if you were the CEO of the publisher employing the translator.
Holy crap, I just got the license for the new Final Fantasy 17!! What?? The new Final Fantasy 17 has a really stupid story? Translator-dono, please localize
Why would I publish a game unless I thought it was good or didn't have the resources to make it good but had to release anyway? Why would I pay a translator to fix the story either? It would be cheaper and better all around to reduce the size of the team and get my staff to fix it and then translate afterwards. Not only would it sell more copies due to being a better product in more regions, but it would also allow the team to make deeper changes that the translators wouldn't be able to make. If I know the story is bad and I have the resources to fix the story, why not just fix the story in the first place?
Disagree. It's one thing to make changes when it comes to idioms and other examples of language that doesnt easily translate, but to actively cut and change things is a different story.
I didn't say you had the resources to fix the story
You realize not all games are published by the developer, right?
As the publisher, I would have the ability to get the developers to make changes to the game. Publishers often pay for the production of the game, and are therefore in a position to get changes in place.
The people making the decision to change things are the translators who know that not many people will know what they're doing.
You wouldn't say that if you were the CEO of the publisher employing the translator.
Holy crap, I just got the license for the new Final Fantasy 17!! What?? The new Final Fantasy 17 has a really stupid story? Translator-dono, please localize
Normally I prefer an accurate translation, but if the original text is full of jokes and references that would not make sense I am not against trying to put an equivalent localized joke there. It's when stuff is changed for no reason, adds memes and zoomer lingo, or to try to to push an agenda that was clearly not in the original that I can't stand it.
E.G. I recall a manga where an overworked officer was being called out on the field again after having just come back from another extra assignment and said something along the lines of "Do you see an S on my chest?" Clearly that Superman reference was not in the original, but I assume it was a reference to a similar Japanese superhero that most people outside of Japan would have no idea what it means so I am fine with something like that.
I think it's fine if you don't understand 100% of the jokes. Replacement jokes generally turn out bad. You are playing a game from another culture after all. You can't understand everything even if translation is perfect. It adds to fun for your imagination to do the rest, or you read more about the said culture. Either way is better than original rewritten content.
these kinds of localizations are moronic but there's a 100% bulletproof solution to the issue, you don't get to be a purist while playing a translation
Reminds me of the PS2 .hack games. In the original Japanese games after you beat the game it unlocks a second "omake" voice track that is full of basically Japanese memes.
In the US version instead you can choose between English or Japanese voices and they are both unlocked from the start. IIRC the publisher said that it would have been pointless to try to include or translate the omake track because it would be completely nonsensical in English.
It wouldnt' have been nonsensical in that they could try to translate it, but why put so much extra effort.
There is also the issue there isn't enough space on DVD for both tracks. NISA stupidly removed vast majority of Japanese track from PS2 version to add English voices. This way both English and Japanese tracks are silent for the majority of the game. They also have to pay less for English dub because there are less lines. So it works out great for localization. That's why Ar tonelico undub exists. Well Ar Tonelico 2 also has a fan patch to fix some translation errors in Ar Tonelico 2.
That and there are some miss translations. There is a part Japanese voice acting is someone talking, but translation is translating as if other person was talking. Translation quality isn't very good. Patch also doesn't fix it a lot, but it is still better than official translation.
Modern Japanese writing has basically degraded into sentence fragments and strings of wwwwww
The why in the frick is he called a "repo" man? A repo man is not a fricking repair man. Where in the frick is that colloquialism for repairman used? A repo man is a guy who repossesses your shit.
people who get worked up over this shit are so moronic. i play the "original" translations of ff4 and bof2. don't care. these aren't serious works of art. the campiness only adds to the experience
Read Ultima Weapon's entry.
This better not be one of those situations where the translator thinks he's a comedian and writer all of a sudden.
I fricking hate translators that don't know their place. If you want to be a writer then go write your own shit, don't go fricking up some other person's work.
>read something
>like it
>consider that it may not be a 100% accurate translation
>suddenly the merits that made you like it are now in a Schrodinger's cat situation until this external factoid is verified
What a sad post.
Big Ohh noo noo nooooooo
Hey you.
You saved my Dorothy image from a past thread.
Without my permission.
Why I oughta
Based sane and well-balanced individual.
They will hate you because you exposed their childishness
Sorry some of us aren't children and have the mental capacity to separate "like" and "correct"
>>read something
>>like it
>>like it
Do we now? Might as well share chad meme to make sure we do.
If people liked it failed writer would be an actual writer.
I don't think you need to explain the actual differences regrading setting. At that point you could even change the time period. They are making stupid arguments because there is no proper arguments for what they are arguing for.
>you don't get to be a purist while playing a translation
Yes, we do. That's what translation is. Look at book translations. They have figured these things long before. Failed writers were trying to insert their writing in books as well. The answer is always the same. Literal translation is always better.
borges shits in your mouth directly
literal J > E translation and vice versa is not possible, a certain degree of leeway is necessary and who gets to decide the extent of that? the scale of liberties taken goes from moderate to severe and translators have no choice but to pick somewhere on that spectrum. if you want to play "purely" as intended you better start studying. for entertaining children in the 90s with no internet who won't know or care, making the text fun to read is simply the better choice
>if you want to play "purely" as intended you better start studying.
Well that is certainly needed to enjoy anything up to a degree. You need to know of 1980s Japan to enjoy Akira and Evangelion.
At the same time when people start watching anime many don't know -chan, -kun and so on. It doesn't make them enjoy it less, and as the time goes people start appreciating it even more.
I agree Japanese can't be literally translated to English, but less changes is always better. People don't start to panic for not understating frivolous details. It's generally confusing parts that needs to be made clear. Like philosophical messages. Which in fact is the main reason we need translations. You can't learn languages at that high level. Even when you do, if you stop using it for some time those parts start falling off.
I remember reading a research that humans can learn only 2 languages at very high level. That's including mother language. You start losing high levels of secondary languages pretty fast. Sometimes people forget languages completely.
Btw my mother language isn't even English. I've decided that English is simply a superior language. So I haven't been reading books in my mother language for years.
Yeah why bother reading Don Quixote in original language when you can like millions of others. Original work has to be flawed in someway.
It sucks if the jokes are cringe, but that one was genuinely funny.
Didn't laugh
If the japanese text is ass, why not change it to be better?
>perfect nihongo literature could never be made better!
Kek.
This is such a pointless meme. Why do midwits whose lives are dominated by go-nowhere resentment post it so much?
The difference is if it's Japan the odds are some peaceful old couple may live in that house but if it's America the denizens of that house are probably on meth and ready to stab you.
That's not what I said moron, they're job is to be faithful and knowing more than one language I know you can't just translate everything perfectly but that does not excuse making shit up like it belongs to you. Nothing worse than a someone that instead of doing their job takes the opportunity to make something all about themselves with something that doesn't belong to them. That entitled bullshit is always terrible.
So if a Japanese game had a scatological gay sex scene, you wouldn't prefer that this be omitted from the English version?
No, show me what they created. I don't need some homosexual to censor and filter things to their preference before letting the rest of the world see it. I know japanese things can get really weird and if I don't want to see that crazy japanese shit I won't play their games, it'll be my choice, not some person deciding for me what I should want to see.
Nothing is worse than entitled person, who did not participate in the creative process and hard work of making something, deciding for others what part of other people's work should and should not be allowed, fixed, or "improved".
Well. I care about getting a good product first and foremost. After all, if it's not good, why bother?
>After all, if it's not good, why bother?
Because it will be good for somebody else.
NTA and not gay, but no. I don't want anything removed. I want the original contents preserved and translated as reasonably as possible. Likewise I don't want anything added either, if the original did not have a gay scene and one was added or characters suddenly speak in zoomer lingo like many translators these days are doing I would not be happy either.
I want the original to be kept and translated as accurately as possible, regardless if the original contains things I don't like or if they wanted to add things that I would like.
The most changes I am ok with are what I said in
where if it's some kind of reference or joke or idiom that would not translate but there is an equivalent joke/idiom/reference that can be made in it's place.
>suddenly speak in zoomer lingo like many translators these days are doing
This complaint is always levied at games like NTWEWY when it is totally justified there. TWEWY was about millennial urban culture, and the English translation reflected this; NWEWY is about zoomer urban culture, and the English translation also reflects this. If you'd rather every dialogue box use entirely untranslated Japanese slang and idioms, learn Japanese.
No it's not, I would not have an issue with TWEWY because it fits, but look up examples of what "localizers" are doing to anime and games these days. Picrel from a game that takes place in a medieval setting. Similar lingo in anime too lately.
If I wanted to listen to Black person lingo I would play a GTA game.
>Picrel from a game that takes place in a medieval setting.
Wrong. This game takes place in a fantasy settings inspired by modern Taiwan and is a fan translation.
Still a fantasy setting and a fan translator is still supposed to translate, not meme up the game.
I laughed about the joke in OP. It has a slightly dark humor. I prefer that than a boring description like "enemy a works for the imperial arlmy and is weak to fire". Seethe troony.
Did this really sound like a good argument in your head? People want the game from original company. Not the localizer.
Accuracy is a spook. What matters is whether it's good, which is independent of accuracy
No what matters is whether it is accurate. The job of translator is to make sure one work can be understood from another language or from an older time period. You don't go to 15th century and start censoring stuff to make it less "problematic" the same way you don't go and "fix" culture from somewhere else. What difference whether one joke land or not makes? What truly matters is the core of the story. With your idea of translating main part is getting damaged. You can't improve that with better writing. Sometimes bad parts also add up to overall picture. Things need to stand out even if they are bad.
No thanks I want to enjoy a better product, without the aforementioned scatological gay sex scene.
There is no product left with those kinds of localization. What you've got left with is just some cheap knock off.
It lacks highs of an English work or a Japanese work with better translation.
>Accuracy is a spook
Frick off, locucklizaton tool.
Because a translators job is to translate. Not make something up.
If its shit, then let it be shit. That's not what a translator is there for.
Spoken like a true NPC
Nah, if he was an NPC he would have said "bruh" while calling us incels and complaining about the patriarchy.
At least, if he was a NPC from a modern translated game.
An NPC wouldn't be able to understand that there is value in things being uniquely shit. And that by changing something to make it "better" is actually just going to make it strange, generic, or shit.
But I'm willing to be wrong, instead of pissing around with hypotheticals, let's get specific. Can you name any examples of a translation making changes that actually improve a story?
Why would I publish a game unless I thought it was good or didn't have the resources to make it good but had to release anyway? Why would I pay a translator to fix the story either? It would be cheaper and better all around to reduce the size of the team and get my staff to fix it and then translate afterwards. Not only would it sell more copies due to being a better product in more regions, but it would also allow the team to make deeper changes that the translators wouldn't be able to make. If I know the story is bad and I have the resources to fix the story, why not just fix the story in the first place?
Literally woolseism
Disagree. It's one thing to make changes when it comes to idioms and other examples of language that doesnt easily translate, but to actively cut and change things is a different story.
As the publisher, I would have the ability to get the developers to make changes to the game. Publishers often pay for the production of the game, and are therefore in a position to get changes in place.
The people making the decision to change things are the translators who know that not many people will know what they're doing.
I didn't say you had the resources to fix the story
You realize not all games are published by the developer, right?
You wouldn't say that if you were the CEO of the publisher employing the translator.
Holy crap, I just got the license for the new Final Fantasy 17!! What?? The new Final Fantasy 17 has a really stupid story? Translator-dono, please localize
Normally I prefer an accurate translation, but if the original text is full of jokes and references that would not make sense I am not against trying to put an equivalent localized joke there. It's when stuff is changed for no reason, adds memes and zoomer lingo, or to try to to push an agenda that was clearly not in the original that I can't stand it.
E.G. I recall a manga where an overworked officer was being called out on the field again after having just come back from another extra assignment and said something along the lines of "Do you see an S on my chest?" Clearly that Superman reference was not in the original, but I assume it was a reference to a similar Japanese superhero that most people outside of Japan would have no idea what it means so I am fine with something like that.
Pulling shit like pic related though I hate.
I think it's fine if you don't understand 100% of the jokes. Replacement jokes generally turn out bad. You are playing a game from another culture after all. You can't understand everything even if translation is perfect. It adds to fun for your imagination to do the rest, or you read more about the said culture. Either way is better than original rewritten content.
Thats why we have TL's note. What the frick happened to TL's note???? Just translate.accurately and then explain nipponese in the note.
these kinds of localizations are moronic but there's a 100% bulletproof solution to the issue, you don't get to be a purist while playing a translation
If the japanese man says Itadakimasu why shouldn't I translate it as "Rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub"?
Ar Tonelico games have director's comments. Many of them were jokes.
Reminds me of the PS2 .hack games. In the original Japanese games after you beat the game it unlocks a second "omake" voice track that is full of basically Japanese memes.
In the US version instead you can choose between English or Japanese voices and they are both unlocked from the start. IIRC the publisher said that it would have been pointless to try to include or translate the omake track because it would be completely nonsensical in English.
It wouldnt' have been nonsensical in that they could try to translate it, but why put so much extra effort.
There is also the issue there isn't enough space on DVD for both tracks. NISA stupidly removed vast majority of Japanese track from PS2 version to add English voices. This way both English and Japanese tracks are silent for the majority of the game. They also have to pay less for English dub because there are less lines. So it works out great for localization. That's why Ar tonelico undub exists. Well Ar Tonelico 2 also has a fan patch to fix some translation errors in Ar Tonelico 2.
>Well Ar Tonelico 2 also has a fan patch to fix some translation errors in Ar Tonelico 2.
I thought the purpose of that patch was to fix a bug in the US version where if you are not able to defeat a boss quickly the game will crash?
That and there are some miss translations. There is a part Japanese voice acting is someone talking, but translation is translating as if other person was talking. Translation quality isn't very good. Patch also doesn't fix it a lot, but it is still better than official translation.
Nobody is buying it translator anon.
Okay so is he a repair man or a "repo" man or a "repair" man hence the wrenches? Feel like they fricked this up. WOOLSEY! MY OFFICE!
He repairs stuff in the mine you dumb frick
The why in the frick is he called a "repo" man? A repo man is not a fricking repair man. Where in the frick is that colloquialism for repairman used? A repo man is a guy who repossesses your shit.
Modern Japanese writing has basically degraded into sentence fragments and strings of wwwwww
For example?
what game
people who get worked up over this shit are so moronic. i play the "original" translations of ff4 and bof2. don't care. these aren't serious works of art. the campiness only adds to the experience