Brainlets win again.
You got your easy fluids. Now you have NO excuse
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Brainlets win again. You got your easy fluids. Now you have NO excuse
Brainlets win again.
You got your easy fluids. Now you have NO excuse
Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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I don't get it
Me neither. I'm smart enough to understand fluids but not enough to understand factorio patchnotes
Thank frick. New players had to look on the wiki to find out why spamming underground pipes was 10x as effective as spamming regular pipes because of how flow worked.
TLDR:1 Pump in 1 Pump out over distance instead of many pumps in between.
in ever used pumps and i sent rocket and left the planet then never launched the game again
I stumbled into underground pipes just because they made it not an unbearable pain in the ass to walk around my base. I've launched two rockets and I've never run into this whole pressure thing, honestly never even knew about it.
Exactly. 99% of the playerbase never ran into flow issues because regular bases don't ever come close to needing an entire pipe of anything. The ones that did had to deal with the janky flow rate. The expansion is all about production speed which means regular players might have started seeing the issues which is why they decided to just simplify it.
Simplification was the right move. If no one ever meaningfully interacted with it and it's otherwise a performance drop with no other purpose, what's the point? And no, tedium
is not gameplay
i always thought the pump spam to get max throughput was stupid. But also they should make larger pipes for more throughput, like taking up 2 tiles and getting 4x throughput, same with undergrounds
Fluid flow used to be based off of how many input pipes there are.
Now it's based off how big your storage is. Bigger storage = worse flow.
nothing has changed about why people don't get it
on one hand I'm really happy. fluid was the biggest performance drain and was the very first thing to ruin your late game mega bases, specifically all the water that goes into nuclear energy. this means people will be able to make bases twice as big.
on the other hand that means my oil field mod I wrote is now useless
It was never a problem if you built around it.
Which means they removed an interesting late game challenge.
>It was never a problem if you built around it.
it is a problem for ALL mega bases, but I mean actual endgame bases with insane rockets per minute. no matter how you build, if you start to run into performance issues on a high end PC, it's the fluids no exception.
i thought it was conveyors and therefore built everything with bots
Belts are a bottleneck, but bots push past that.
Fluids are a bottleneck and there is nothing to push past it.
>Which means they removed an interesting late game challenge.
It was never a late game challenge unless you went out of your way to make it one. Instead of fricking around with pumps you could just split your production so you didn't hit the throughput cap on a single pipe.
>Which means they removed an interesting late game challenge.
You people are insufferable
I've got 4,000 hours in the game and they were a massive pain in the ass. Yeah it's really bending my brain being forced to add pumps between every pipe section, what'll we do without it.
>easy
Spamming undergrounds and pumps wasn't hard, just counterintuitive.
>interesting challenge
>known optimal solution that's trivial to implement
Blow it out your ass.
>dude what if I made fluid trains and in-place crafting even better LMAO
What fricking late game challenge lmao, just spam pumps or break down your facility blocks and be done with it.
moron
it was frustrating, not interesting. interesting would have had some chance of being figured out by the common player. What they had was so convoluted I didn't even know it was a problem to be solved, I always went way overboard making sure my pipes stayed filled because i had no idea what the problem was, when it happened, why it happened, or how badly it would affect things.
flow is based on the order shit is built? that's just absolutely fricking moronic
Explain, I have no idea what this does, fluids wont derp anymore when pumping huge amounts?
Basically fluids don't "travel" down a pipe and get less pressure the further the pipe goes.
As soon as fluid hits a pipe it is spread across the whole pipeline connected to it.
This stops throughput problems where a pipe is full or as mentioned previously the pipe it too long so you'd have to resort to putting a pump every few lengths of pipe to keep the fluid moving.
Have you ever seen factorio?
Yes, it looks so much better than this rimworld wannabe
>an algorithm from the Minecraft mod Thermal Expansion
Kovarex just can't beat old habits now can he
I already finished the game, but it was always moronic that you had to constantly utilize all of the 3 fluids in order to produce more of a single one.
Also, was this autism?
>moronic that you had to constantly utilize all of the 3 fluids
You didn't actually. If you use pumps with wires that only allow flow when X > Y you can avoid deadlocks entirely as long as your factory is running and using petroleum. You only needed a few chem plants turning heavy into light and light into petroleum to keep everything moving with zero issues.
Alternatively you could do what I did when I was a n00b and spam dozens of storage tanks and just blow them up when they filled up. It's moronic but it works.
Factorio seems like a fun game to work on because it's 90% math, which is what people studying computer science in college are actually learning. As opposed to entering the workforce and doing boring CRUD apps
the 3 fluid problem was supposed to teach you about oil fracking and controlling pumps via simple tank checks
i remember on /egg/ people were talking about having a system setup where it'd check which fluid was the highest level and then changing around whats getting produced based off that in order to balance out the levels of all 3 but I was too much of a brainlet for that
Literally if [Heavy oil] > [Light oil], turn on pump that goes into heavy oil cracking, and send the resulting light oil into the light oil storage, and do the same with [Light oil] > [Petroleum gas]
There are finer, more precise ways to do this, but the way factorio works, you will always consume way more petgas than anything else, so this setup should not break, and if it does, you're doing something horribly wrong
i remember when i first started fricking with oil my setups were always complicated and broke. Just kept refining it and this is literally the solution i arrived at lol. simple is better
bruh
>was it autism
yes, and it's a good thing
Explains why most people only need 45 science per minute but crazy people can make 45 000
And that's a good thing.
I'm tired of needing to put pumps everywhere.
Undergrounds, moron....
You're moronic. That anon would have to check the wiki to know that undergrounds even worked differently since it's not explained in game. Hence the change.
They work the same. Storage tank is just a big pipe with restricted i/o positions, undergrounds are just a lomg pipe with restricted i/o
The knowledge you need is the fact that fluid mechanics in the game aren't solvable, but rather an approximation of the correct behaviour that can be repeated to converge close to the answer. If you're a smart boy you can figure it out
>they work the same
Except they don't when you factor in distance. Underground pipes can transport fluids a longer distance without losing as much flow as regular pipes over the same distance. A regular player has no way of knowing that.
I don't understand. Can't you solve any flow problems over long distances by having fluid pumps along the pipeline?
Depends. If you want max throughput you need a pipe made entirely out of pumps that never turns. A player that doesn't know the mechanics would need WAY more pumps over the same distance if they aren't using underground pipes because of how for works per pipe section.
you can make turns using tanks.
I've done this pump/tank autism for my megabase before.
>negligible difference between 10 and 200 pipes
lol
thats why I always counted a single pipe as 1000, no matter how long, for calculations. only weird edge cases would i decide to calculate individual pipe line throughput
The tangible differences that underground pipes make tapers off as distance and/or number of attached machines/plants increases.
If I've got 40+ plants that combined need around 1500 u/s over 10 chunks away from my petroleum processing, I'm still gonna need a shit ton of pumps, underground pipes or not.
Satisfactory won.
GregTech won.
Gregtech the ic2 addon won
The standalone mod is good but doesn't exhale that "modded minecraft" air
Gregtech is fricking garbage
Trash forces you to collect worthless shit for 30 hours going through the quest book to pad time
See
>but it was always moronic that you had to constantly utilize all of the 3 fluids in order to produce more of a single one.
ITT shitters and morons who probably couldn't launch a single rocket without pulling up the wiki or using online blueprints
Mindustry won
>everything looks the fricking same
no thanks
what do you mean it looks more distinct than factorio
Explain what these blocks are in a way thats self evident to somebody that has never played mindustry
Now take a screenshot of a Factorio base without alt mode
>Factorio
A belt looks like a belt
A crafter looks like a crafter
A furnace looks like a furnace
>Mindustry
A belt looks like a belt
A crafter looks like a colored square
A furnace looks like a colored square
A press looks like a colored square
A plasma drill looks like a colored square
>A crafter looks like a crafter
A mindustry crafter looks like a crafter, anon.
A factorio crafter looks like... Hell I don't know what it looks like
Why are you like this
anon why are you posting a TP?
nobody who already hasnt played that game will have any idea what hes looking at.
Nobody plays at this zoom level in either games
Most objects in factorio are just low res real world things
Mindustry is randomly selected colored squares with no cohesion
>no cohesion with the other colored squares which they all are
are you being moronic on purpose or do you just not know what that word means?
no cohesion between the real world object and the look of the random square you dumb b***h
so just learn what they do? it's a videogame
the graphics being so shit that you have to memorize arbitrary shapes is exactly my point you stupid c**t
so like 90% of items in factorio.
>items
nice try Black person
>coming from low iq moron who confuses visual clarity with his personal opinion on graphical aesthetic
pathethic
I was talking about visual clarity from the very start you worthless fricking monkey Black person
then you are fricking moronic Black person
Never played factorio but I can guess what a few of those things are the same cannot be said of industry which I have also never played but could not even begin to guess what any of them are outside belts but given the way they design things some could be pipes
>can guess what a few of those things are
in the end in both games you will need to learn what those things represent, hes original claim was they all look the same which is bullshit, from his comments its apparent real issue is his subjective opinion on the art style used in game. Personally i dont have a problem with it in a same way i dont care about chess figures being represented by simple and easy to distinguish flat 2D figures instead of some fancy overdesigned 3d object.
no one plays like this. turn on the alt mode chud
he's just moronic, doesn't like the aesthetic but too stupid to communicate that
mindustry is more fun than factorio for me by a longshot
Nothing can convince me to play a video game without my consent and that includes emotional blackmail.
>easy fluids
>they just made it so pipes actually work like pipes
Why dont you play with your screen turned off while you are at it you masochistic homosexual?
>pipes actually work like pipes
Pipes don't work like either
>Pipes now
>Fluid is like molasses that slowly works it's way down the pipe and runs out of energy after 10 segments.
>Pipes after update
>Fluid teleports to the end of the pipe and evenly distributes itself across the whole length.
Ideally each fluid should have it's own viscosity and that viscosity determines how quickly the fluid travels down the pipes.
Game doesnt have the capability to simulate full fluid dynamics for every single pipe
Rather have it instantly hit every output than not move for 30 minutes especially for gas
You don't have to actually simluate the fluid moving ingame.
You just adjust the values traveling down the pipe to make it look like fluid is moving in there.
Which is what they tried to do but couldn't get it to work, so they've given up and just had the pipe auto distribute throughout.
>Ideally each fluid should have it's own viscosity and that viscosity determines how quickly the fluid travels down the pipes.
This would add nothing to the actual gameplay. The solution would still be spamming pumps.
>This would add nothing to the actual gameplay
That's what you think because you are too used to what you know.
Having fluid that travels a lot slower like treacle down a pipe would force a player to think about layout, you can't use very long pipes and ideally a higher viscosity would have implications with pumps aswell, since pumps would not work that well on highly viscous fluids compared to something like water.
Unless you totally saturate the input, any hiccup in the input would then have a ripple effect down the pipe.
The solution would be to plan properly and have the creation of the liquid closer to the use of it.
or it would make a more reasonable use for fluid wagons on trains as they could move it from a to b without the viscosity being a factor.
But really the viscosity idea was simply a suggestion at better simulating fluid moving down the pipe, which they tried and failed to do.
No, the solution would literally be the same as it is now but you would be waiting slightly longer for fluids to show up. People already use trains for long distance oil and viscosity wouldn't change that.
it's over
If you actually read the blog, fluids were literally not working well for the devs THEMSELVES due to new scaling methods in the expansion.
This isn't them simplifying for anybody, it was an actual broken system.
this is a godsend
old fluids was moronic and didn't make sense most of the time
2.0 is shaping up to be incredible
the only thing we'll have to see is the quality stuff but even if that's shit, apparently you'll be able to disable it
literally nothing changes from the brainlet perspective
water in water out
you still cant do it
When you stop using pipes and have to use nothing but pumps because of fluid flow issues, then you know the system is fricking flawed. This new system looks infinitely better, especially for giant reactors.
i read the blog and it seems like absolutely nothing changed about how smart you have to be to use the system
Newfriends can now thrive with the shittiest vtubber setup imaginable and it will always work.
Trains aren't mandatory for oil anymore.
doesnt effect me, i use belts to transport fluids
Based barrel bro
what's the point of using barrels instead of using pipes?
Mainly legacy content since barrels existed before fluid trains.
One possible legit use case is to transport a small amount of heavy oil to jumpstart a coal liquifaction setup but in 99% of situations barrels are useless
Dont worry, the furgay will make sure you barrel your lube for space age
The real question is, why dont we have science as a liquid or barrels of science that contain x10 as much science in them
maybe as like a challenge if you dont wanna use fluid wagons or something
I remember wanting to use a little bit of lubricant for something but didn't really want to route a train to that point since it was really just a small amount, so I used logistic bots with barrels instead.
Transporting fluids via bot network. That's about it
only use I had was transporting barrels over water with bots because I didn't want to make an ugly dirt line, but also to try it out
it allows you to never touch trains
I use them for flamethrower oil delivery to artillery outpost. Usually it doesn't get used as much as the rest of the stuff that gets delivered so you can use the remaining storage of regular wagon for shells etc.
Is there a mod that makes the enemies humanoid instead of bugs OR a mod that gives you human defenses like a turret reskin or a new type of turret that is just a man with a gun
Probably. The original enemies were humanoid before they added the current bugs. I bet you can find a mod to bring them back.
This is cool and all but how do you not get fricked over by enemies at the early stages?
Build turrets.
Don't start in the desert because there's no trees to absorb pollution.
make three turrets, put some ammo in them, and lay them wherever you want to defend and manually give them some ammo
Eventually enclose them with a layer of walls, by the time biters get close enough to hurt the walls you should have automated ammo production to be able to lay a perimeter of turrets taking ammo from a belt, and if you're not, just plot another three turrets next to those
But you REALLY want to automate ammo production and bump ammo damage early
1. Manage your pollution, don't overbuild. Building 20 iron miners at the start like a speedrunner is a surefire way to get assfricked 20 minutes into the game and possibly softlocked because you can't defend against attack groups of 50-100+ biters.
2. Build a bunch of turrets close together near polluters (miners, boilers, assemblers, furnaces) and surround them with stone furnaces or pipes, later walls
3. Clear out nests that are too far into your pollution cloud. Always check the map with pollution enabled, if you see blinking squares there's a nest there. Turret creep is the only way to clear bigger nests in the early stages of the game. After that it's defender minions -> tank -> exo MK2 with personal lasers -> artillery train for the endgame
4. Prevent enemy expansions by placing turrets in the wild at key locations, choke points between water/cliffs or 2-3 chunks away from other nests.
5. If there's a nest you aren't able to take out deep inside your pollution cloud, you need to go and clear the assembling attack group every minute or two to prevent it from getting too big.
make a submachine gun
make enough ammo
clean the bases close to yours
it's that easy
it works until it doesnt, eventually they evolve and unless you have fricking wall around your entire base they will be pushing your shit
>early stages
>unless you have fricking wall around your entire base they will be pushing your shit
Solution: Build a fricking wall
You live in a factory, if you're ever thinking shit like "gee where will I get all those walls or ammo" then you're doing something wrong
the wall is not the problem the fact i also need to connect pipes for flame throwers around entire base, which constantly needs to be rebuild and moved if I want to create some space. on top of it once i ran out of resources and needed to expand to completely new base i got weird decision paralysis because i had so much spaghetti to change i got overwhelmed and i decided to launch rocket and gtfo that planet.
Weird. I push out a bit and build my initial defense perimeter, by the time I'm ready to expand again I have bots so ctrl+x/ctrl+v makes rebuilding a complete non-issue
in later stages you can open the map, turn on the pollution viewer and go after the bases where the pollution is getting closer
having a car or tank makes this even easier
want to create a new base elsewhere? clean every one of their bases that are close
but i would still recommend covering your bases with walls
from my experience you don't even need to make advanced turrets, if one of your bases is being attacked, just put one of the submachine gun turrets and then deal with the enemy base later if you can't do it now
I build a row of turrets I fill it with ammo
I build another row of turrets closer to the nest I fill those with ammo
I repeat this process while driving around in a car and trying not to get caught by acid
By selecting ammo and holding Z to drop I mouse over along the row of turrets very fast so that each time I mouse over a turret a new mag is deposited.
It's dumb now. Fluids will teleport within a segment so you can have a 1000 mile pipe instantly transfer from one end to the other.
i play with biters off
As you should. They're stressful when you're learning.
I don't see the problem
No player optimizes perfectly
Not unless you're a sperg
If you're a sperg play fricking Aurora
Spergs will optimize for one variable and think it's perfectly optimized. Engineering isn't perfection.
fun mods for someone who has launched a rocket and wants a little more challenge but is not a turbo autist?
Krastorio2 adds new stuff without going completely moronic.
Or just play vanilla deathworld and learn to love nukes.
nukes?
deathworld is only hard at the beginning right?
you reach bots and it's game over for biters, just like a normal game
Seconding K2. I liked Industrial Revolution 3 as well but it's a bit more autism than K2; there's a lot of intermediates but if you're smart you can make them inline especially since there's 1x1 assemblers
Krastorio2 is practically vanilla+
Renai transportation for a funny gimmick
Rampart to expand up on biters, but you may want to add some other for of military for them, leading into:
Spiderlings to add a weaker spidertron that you can unlock before being practically done with the game
Omnimatter to shake up the formula by having an universal goop that you turn into the different ores and raw materials for the game
There's also literal randomizers that may or may not make the game hell
>Brainlets win again.
>You got your easy fluids.
you're the brainlet anon. there were still many anomalias with the fluid system even after several years of fixing it, they just finally realized fluid dynamics in real life work by magic and cannot be simulated even in 2d
Anyone has the centrifuge webm? or some other autism kino
I'm more surprised that people apparently are building these long ass pipes. Proper base design makes this a complete non issue. Use fluid wagons or oilbarrels for long distance transport, if you have genuinely need 50 tiles lengths of pipe to get oil where they need to go or you have one pipe supplying literally every single facility, you messed up big time.
if you build any decent sized nuclear setup (8 or more reactors) reactor you WILL experience fluid glitches
It's not that, its the branching problem; fluids don't divide evenly at a junction. Hence the webms.
That's the hype part.
Idfc about pipes teleporting fluids.
I care about less circuit tedium.
>he doesn't have a pipe bus
Embarrassing.
i like the mod that has an extra set of non-joining pipes. so those pipes could all be next to eachother with different liquids without them all trying to join together. makes it look a lot nicer
I built this nuclear plant that was completely run by trains bringing in water.
There was a fluid glitch where -even though the system was completely symmetrical- the water in the pipes would prefer sitting in the top left of the system, there were no issues with pumps telling the water to go that way over any other way it just seemed to be a quirk of the way fluids worked.
You can see it irregularity with the cyan lights, they show how much water is in each corner.
All corners should be theoretically equal as the way the pumps work made it all one system.
They will be equal after this update mind you.
baste
>nuclear plant melted down because hobos stole the copper cable from one of the signal boxes
you will never be a civil engineer.
Absolutely elegant.
Holy kino.
A.I. is so frickin neat
wait this is a mod? nvm then factorio devs are the brainlets
Why? I never had any problems with throughput, or was even close to having problems.
The only case where it would matter would probably be nuclear reactor water consumption, and even then it's easier to just directly build the reactor setup on body of water with pumps having 0 distance from heat exchangers.
Because they're cranking up the throughput limit to insane heights and fluids just wouldn't fit with the jank system we have now.
>and even then it's easier to just directly build the reactor setup on body of water with pumps having 0 distance from heat exchangers.
Now you won't have to
Man I'd love to see how many belts of iron that thing's eating up.
Well they are in fact eating molten iron. Iron is a fluid now, that's one of the reasons why this fluid update is amazing.
>(way) easier (big) nuclear reactors
>easier Vulcanus foundry
>easier petroleum processing
>great for newfriends getting into the game again, great for autismo-megabasers
Win/win
Even satisfactory has pipe pressure, lmao factorio ez game
Krastorio is the single most fun I've ever had in this game and then I tried SE and it's such unredeemable garbage that me and my buddy got bored and quit before even going into space. Fantastic idea. Horrendous execution. I hope the DLC they're eventually going to release is just SE but designed more balanced like the base game so it's actually fun to play.
Space age is going to be far less moronic than SE. You certainly won't need every single low tier inserter to make a higher tier stacker.
They have the SE modder on a leash.
Every time he starts acting up with his sadistic tendencies, they electrocute the mf
When he tried to implement stone byproducts they made him sleep outside.
Does the expansion even have a release date yet?
apparently the rumor is that it's coming out in october.
lol
maybe satisfactory will delete their god awful pipe pressure mechanic they badly copied
Another change that ruins the game even further. It's amazing how every update justifies my refusal to get the expansion further.
For me it was the price raise. It was always overpriced but that did it for me along with the scummy no sale policy. Definitely not buying it now.
This is literally the best update Factorio has ever gotten because fluid throughput control absolutely did not fricking work in the slightest.
It worked fine. If you had an issue with the fluid dynamics then you were just a brainlet. It's far from the worst update, but it's still death by a thousand cuts.
Then I'll never update or make a mod that undoes the new fluid handling and train mechanics, simple as.
Cry about it, pussy
>It's amazing how every update justifies my refusal to get the expansion further.
The various mechanic tweaks will be applied to the base game in 2.0, they have nothing to do with purchasing the expansion or not. So unless you never update, you're getting the changes too
Factorio devs are awesome and have old versions of the game available to download if you don't want to update.
I'm sure some autist is still playing the version when alien science was a drop from nests.
This is lame as frick.
Fluid flow caused a lot of niche situations where it was better to transport fluids via train than manually. Now fluid trains are completely worthless outside of outposts.
I know on one save I wound up with a super cursed dedicated track full of water trains to fuel a nuclear plant, and it was cool.
frick now after this thread i feel like playing factorio. there's too many good games out rn