competitive tetris comes in a certain flavor for every tetris game people play. I think NES Tetris, Tetris The Grand Master 2/3(?), and whatever "proper vs. Tetris" game is latest are the most popular competitive games.
correction: Tetris IS the greatest game of all time. In 30+ years it's needed no "remakes" or "reimaginings", it was always just "Tetris". It immediately drops you into the game, has simple controls and an easy to understand goal but with challenging gameplay and it's infinitely addictive and replayable.
>plays like a movie
you don't play a movie though IDIOT
if the game has any gameplay whatsoever, it is automatically not a movie game
if the game plays itself without player input, then it's a movie game
>explorers have like no story >they even add in functionality to let you get their emblem without dealing with cutscenes >massive overhaul comes >they now have annoying ass story shit like the other crappy new jobs
Gay.
what's worse is when a game doesn't inundate you with forty hours of cutscenes and tutorials morons will cry on twitter and call it a "bad game" because they couldn't be fricked to play a video GAME
>braindead >as Tetris >a puzzle game so worldwide and renowned for its extremely simple concept that is impossible to master that to this day people obsess over each new release of the game
>as opposed to >the last of us >listen to a dyke tell you about her feefees during the apocalypse and have the game literally play itself if you choose not to interact
>a puzzle game so worldwide and renowned for its extremely simple concept that is impossible to master that to this day people obsess over each new release of the game
ah yes, people obsess about the latest tetris games, they wear tetris merch, buy tetris plushes, go to tetriscon. i really like the 1.045b update where they slightly changed the smoothness of the block rotation, we eating good tetrischads.
>needs a 4 hour prologue in which the T-block becomes jaded after its family dies so it can be reluctantly redeemed during its journey from the top of the screen to the bottom
You're a failed screenwriter who's never actually finished a sceenplay aren't you
>the absolute state of moviegame gays that they'd shit on a game like tetris
Tetris is so good that it has universal appeal, or at least I thought it did, until I saw someone as moronic as you. Tetris has rock solid game design that has stood the test of time for almost half of a fricking century and STILL can get sales 39 years after it's release, meanwhile the average person barely even remembers a lot of movie games, it's just consumable media meant to be thrown aside like a candy wrapper once you've eaten the contents.
I knew movie game morons were bad, but shitting on tetris? That's a new low. If you had your way, Tetris would dump fricking 40 minutes of pretentious cutscenes about how the line block hates clearing 4 rows of lines before you actually got to drop a single god damn block. I have nothing but contempt for you.
This, but with the exception of intro and ending cutscenes. Cutscenes that shape the whole game sometimes need more time, but cutscenes just about minor NPC quests should be very short.
""""""game"""""" """""stories""""" are supposed to be a cherry on top, not the main focus. when its the opposite its a movie game
anything by david cage
mgs4
death stranding
Astro's Playroom
The Dark Pictures: Switchback VR
Demon's Souls (2020 video game)
Destruction AllStars
Final Fantasy XVI
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
Horizon Call of the Mountain
M
Marvel's Wolverine
Rise of the Rōnin
Spider-Man 2 (2023 video game)
Stellar Blade
Movie games are something like Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain, or Until Dawn. Stuff like nu-GoW or MGS aren't movie games, just cutscene heavy. That'd be like calling Morrowind a VN because there's a lot of reading.
Because Morrowind isn't the topic of console war bullshit anymore so the cabal of shitposting homosexuals that make up the bulk of this site have no reason to target it.
When the nonplayable part is more than or equal to a tenth of the total recorded non-afk playtime.
20 hour game? You shouldn't need more than 2 hours to tell the story outside of my literal control.
Devs need to learn to tell a lot of what they want to tell during gameplay without using notes or data logs strewn over tables, and use cutscenes for intros, endings, and plot defining moments.
Personally, I feel that being compelled to sit and read half an hours worth of notes throughout a games runtime is little different than just getting on the game's wiki and reading the plot there.
You have a medium with so many creative ways to tell a story and you choose to write it down, stop the player, and say "time to know why you're doing what you're doing".
Nah. It lacks any sort of imagination.
does the game rely primarily on cutscenes and walk&talk segments (player is walking down a long path without the ability to do much, if anything at all, while NPCs talk) to tell the story to the player?
if the answer to this question is yes, its a movie game.
Anime games get free pass here all the time despite being movie games too
You have to ask yourself if the game can survive without its story. If the only reason people play is because muh politics or muh waifus, then it's not a good game. It can even be discarded as a movie game. Sadly, most JRPGs fall into this, and pretty much every snoy exclusive falls into this.
>5 min of walking, 10 min of talking, 10 min of fighting, walking back to X 5 min, 5 min of talking
that's a fricking movie game
If your "game" has 30% or more just fricking cutscenes, its not a game, there are some exceptions.
I have extremely low tolerance for force walking segments like this.
It feels like a lazy replacement for an actual cutscenes and they're usually not skippable either.
cinematic realism & minimalism, simplified gameplay, mechanics, UI and content over autistic video game elements and games that aren't embarrased to be video games. Amount of cutscenes is actually irrelevant as along as the gameplay is unapologetically video gameay.
3rd person over the shoulder game which is heavily story focused as well as uses cutscenes and writing as it's major selling point. Movie games often overuse the "walking-while-talking" storytelling where character is in control of their character while they speak. Heavy railroading and lack of player agency in the approach for gameplay.
Simplified gameplay and low difficulty so anyone can "experience" the game.
If you can get the whole experience of said game by watching cutscenes and walking-while-talking from YT, then it's a movie game.
It's trivial to pick out snoy exclusives as movieshit because of how blatant they are, but that's just taking the easy way out. You need to analyze the motives behind a video game, to determine if it's a movie. Final Fantasy 7, for example, is a cinematic movie game whether you're talking about the original or the remake. How would you figure this? Well, let's compare a typical combat segment to, oh say, something more videogamey. This is a typical special attack from a final fantasy game.
...and this is a special attack from an actual video game. Notice the differences.
>you are directly responsible for the actions >there is greater risk of failure >the player personally feels responsible for the outcome
This is why I laugh when someone says "B-BUT JRPGS HAVE 100 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY". Your 100 hours is nothing but watching cinematic action attacks and walking down hallways.
Tendies think their ultra simplified JRPG is something to be proud about, the only thing those inputs are doing are trying to transform that JRPG into an action JRPG.
As i said its just to hide's Paper Mario's lack of any mechanic that isn't just "i hit you for two damage instead of one", now by pressing a button at the correct time you get another +1, also don't try to make people believe that the games don't have huge amounts of dialog, instead of cinematic moments you are interrupted constantly by text.
>M&L SSS - Bros. Attacks >have fail states where you don't pull them off >Some of these actually give you a different end result instead of just missing the target and may even be ideal in some situations >By using them successfully you can unlock an advanced string of inputs to change the attack up again
It's a really nice system that I'm annoyed was replaced by items in the following games
...and this is a special attack from an actual video game. Notice the differences.
>you are directly responsible for the actions >there is greater risk of failure >the player personally feels responsible for the outcome
This is why I laugh when someone says "B-BUT JRPGS HAVE 100 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY". Your 100 hours is nothing but watching cinematic action attacks and walking down hallways.
see[...]
People will tout JRPGs as having 100+ hours of game time, but most of that is just watching animations that you have almost zero say in.
late 90s squareslop still living rent free in anon's head
simply brilliant
FF4 >beat Golbez by having Tellah meteo him >"um, I survived because... I just did chud!" >beat Golbez by having Rydia freeze him with mist dragon >"um, I actually survived because you didnt kill my pinky finger, which also lets me take the crystal even though i'm slowly crawling towards it and you could just stop me at any time" >Cecil is stronger than Kain by the time he comes back into the story >but now Kain can overpower 4 people when escaping the trapped cave, AND can take the crystal with him
FF6
>beat Kefka multiple times at Doma >"tee hee I escaped" >beat Kefka at Narshe >"t-that was an illusion, chud!" >beat Kefka again at thamasa >literally uses the oldest, most tired cliche in the book >"IT WAS AN ILLUSION TEE HEE" >somehow he's also capable of soloing the entire party by himself because off screen hyperbolic time chamber or some stupid shuit
I SURE LOVE NOT HAVING AGENCY
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I SURE LOVE NOT HAVING AGENCY
Literally yes. Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned linear game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>"game"
We're talking about Final Fantasy though, a series that's movieshit on par with TLOU.
11 months ago
Anonymous
nope, still a game, unlike TLOU >b-but muh agency
lacking agency because the next boss is always going to be the next boss =/= lacking agency because the creator thinks you're a bad person if you want to do something different from them
and no, the first is NOT equivalent to the second
11 months ago
Anonymous
Don't waste my time asking me to do something, if you're just gonna make it useless within mere seconds.
>spend half an hour getting the black materia from the ancient temple >UH OH SEPHIROTH USES CONVENIENT PLOT POWERS TO GET IT WITHOUT A FIGHT WHOOPSIE DOOPSIE
>collect more than half the crystals in FF4 >UH OH THE PLOT SAYS YOU LOSE THEM ALL BECAUSE YOU TRIPPED AND THEY FELL OUT THE WINDOW, SORRY M8, ALSO MIND CONTROL AT RANDOM INTERVALS
Throw them in the garbage.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Don't waste my time asking me to do something, if you're just gonna make it useless within mere seconds.
Are you sent back to a point in a game before you get those tasks done? No? Then you were never going to do anything with those tasks. They were the prerequisite to the game continuing and nothing more. Games are not obligated to be honest.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Are you sent back to a point in a game before you get those tasks done?
Yes, as a matter of fact. When I lose a crystal in FF4, I have to go to ANOTHER copypasted and boring dungeon and grind against mobs for 20 minutes, only to lose the crystal again and again. You're boring me to death by repetition.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>When I lose a crystal in FF4, I have to go to ANOTHER
And you were going to get them all anyway if you were going to play the game. Thus, it's progress, the game doesn't force you to redo the same thing and your complaint that it FEELS the same is fricking dumb immaterial horseshit
11 months ago
Anonymous
>And you were going to get them all anyway if you were going to play the game.
Or, if this was a more competent game, I'd be allowed to ignore the crystals, dig up the lunar whale, and fly to the moon so I can punch Zemus in the face, and then punch Zeromus in the face too.
>b-but the prophecy! the story
I missed the part where that's my problem.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Or, if this was a more competent game, I'd be allowed to
freedom =/= being allowed to do more things
11 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe I should be allowed to do more things. It's why vanilla FF4 is almost unplayable, while Free Enterprise is a must-play every other month.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Maybe I should be allowed to do more things
i really don't give a frick and have never understood why anyone would, if the game is a line it's a goddamn line, creating a remotely enjoyable complexity and stat curve is hard enough if you expect players to take a single path through it
11 months ago
Anonymous
11 months ago
Anonymous
name one game
11 months ago
Anonymous
11 months ago
Anonymous
More is not better until you've ensured the baseline is great
FF1-6 >DVD menu combat >Sprites wiggle/bounc/run around during textbox cutscenes >3000 textboxes to mash through
Are all FF games actually just movie shit?
Cutscene longer than four minutes and characters spend most of the game walking while talking after a cutscene ends, thus technically extending the cutscene.
If the total time of cut scenes is more than the total amount of time you spend actually playing the game, then it's a movie game. JRPG's are pretty much the only things that fit this criteria. Anybody complaining something else is a movie game is usually just butt hurt over something stupid.
It's trivial to pick out snoy exclusives as movieshit because of how blatant they are, but that's just taking the easy way out. You need to analyze the motives behind a video game, to determine if it's a movie. Final Fantasy 7, for example, is a cinematic movie game whether you're talking about the original or the remake. How would you figure this? Well, let's compare a typical combat segment to, oh say, something more videogamey. This is a typical special attack from a final fantasy game.
People will tout JRPGs as having 100+ hours of game time, but most of that is just watching animations that you have almost zero say in.
>classic RE >ICO and SotC >other fixed games with camera angles like "obscure"
actual movie games have been perfected a long time ago.
i'm so glad mikami faced tech limitations of "no one can make FPS game in japan at the time" so he was forced to look into the stylish, experimental camera angles of the french new wave era of film when making RE1. all those angles you see in the game were inspired by the camera angles (which were fresh and experiemental back then) of the french new wave era.
in general, though, the horror genre really benefits from those angles.
all you have to do for a quick lesson in this is look up screenshots -- or just watch -- george romero's night of the dead. i bet even big-time horror fans don't know this; i think they know the idea of it, but they can't explain it
those camera angles literally makes it look like you are playing a movie because NO FRICKING MOVIE TAKES PLACE IN 1ST PERSON OR 3RD PERSON OVER-THE-SHOULDER. HOW COULD YOU BE SO FRICKING STUPID??
sorry, i'm calm now.
those camera angles can >lead the character where he is supposed to go >expose hidden items and enemies >tell bits of the story and lore through its enviroment alone
RE2's police station really took a lot from film noir as well; which was around the same time as french new wave
A game where rather than simply letting dissonance between story and gameplay lie, or writing the story in such a way that it's compatible with all ways players are realistically going to play, the developers design the game to aggressively course-correct the gameplay portions to be in line with the story they want to tell. This is often paired with writing that drips with cynicism towards both the player and video games as a hobby.
But, to an extent, it's a spectrum. Strong indicators include: >when things fundamental to the gameplay are compromised and rendered clunky to better serve the cosmetic purpose they're meant to, e.g. slow turning animations when walking >when story beats that could be delivered entirely via cutscene are instead delivered through barely interactive and low-stakes segments of pseudo-gameplay, e.g. your standard walk and talk >when playstyle options that are clearly fully possible as far as code and assets are arbitrarily limited by game design that forces you through a single option e.g. status builds in most games with "RPG elements" >when the writing frequently takes a step back from its own characters and setting, simplifying them to deliver moral lessons, e.g. random "pollution bad" in the middle of a pristine high fantasy world because one guy invented the steam engine early
Note that a game can have a ton of cutscenes without necessarily being a movie so long as 1.) it's not some obscene amount of the game, like 35% or above, and 2.) the gameplay in between those cutscenes is relatively consistent and doesn't fall prey to any of the above indicators.
>classic RE >ICO and SotC >other fixed games with camera angles like "obscure"
actual movie games have been perfected a long time ago.
i'm so glad mikami faced tech limitations of "no one can make FPS game in japan at the time" so he was forced to look into the stylish, experimental camera angles of the french new wave era of film when making RE1. all those angles you see in the game were inspired by the camera angles (which were fresh and experiemental back then) of the french new wave era.
in general, though, the horror genre really benefits from those angles.
all you have to do for a quick lesson in this is look up screenshots -- or just watch -- george romero's night of the dead. i bet even big-time horror fans don't know this; i think they know the idea of it, but they can't explain it
those camera angles literally makes it look like you are playing a movie because NO FRICKING MOVIE TAKES PLACE IN 1ST PERSON OR 3RD PERSON OVER-THE-SHOULDER. HOW COULD YOU BE SO FRICKING STUPID??
sorry, i'm calm now.
those camera angles can >lead the character where he is supposed to go >expose hidden items and enemies >tell bits of the story and lore through its enviroment alone
RE2's police station really took a lot from film noir as well; which was around the same time as french new wave
>press right >press left >time how long it takes for charcter to start moving left after you have pressed the button >if it takes more than 1 ms it's a movie game
WOOOOOOOOOOW that was hard
if it has more cutscenes than gameplay its a movie game cause you are expending more time watching stuff than playing it
and slowly walking sections you cannot skip and are forced to listen to boring NPCs talking dont count
It employs that slimy movie game tactic where there is dialogue, but you're still in control of the character. So technically it doesn't count as a cutscene, but it's still movieshit.
11 months ago
Anonymous
fair enough
Even gone home is more of a game than TLOU then
you made your point
11 months ago
Anonymous
My point was that both were shit for different reasons, primarily that cutscenes aren't the primary culprit for movieshit syndrome.
You can't say a game is completely different genre if the player already has full knowledge of the game and that causes them to play it differently. That'd be like saying a puzzle game isn't a puzzle game anymore if you know all the answers already, since there is no longer any puzzle solving since you have the answers already.
You have to judge the game based on something at least resembling what a blind playthrough would involve, as that's what the developer has designed the game around.
A video game is one that's fun whether you have full knowledge of it or not. It's about the journey, and the challenge in overcoming that journey. If the only "challenge" is walking down some hallways, then no amount of blind playthroughs will save it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>A video game is one that's fun whether you have full knowledge of it or not. > It's about the journey, and the challenge in overcoming that journey
What about the example I gave with a puzzle game then? It can be plenty challenging the first time you play through the game, but your 2nd playthrough will be significantly easier because you know the answers to the puzzles already.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If it's like Baba is You, then the fun is then in trying to find ways to break the puzzles.
gone home is a walking simulator not a movie shit game
they are two diferent things
Is there really a meaningful difference between the two? At the end of the day I'd rather play bing bing wahoo then either one.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Is there really a meaningful difference between the two?
It's mostly just "hold forward to win" vs "watch this to win". Either way you're not really doing much yourself.
11 months ago
Anonymous
gone home is a walking simulator not a movie shit game
You can't say a game is completely different genre if the player already has full knowledge of the game and that causes them to play it differently. That'd be like saying a puzzle game isn't a puzzle game anymore if you know all the answers already, since there is no longer any puzzle solving since you have the answers already.
You have to judge the game based on something at least resembling what a blind playthrough would involve, as that's what the developer has designed the game around.
If cutscenes are interrupted by gameplay, it's a moviegame.
If the presentation is state of the art, but the gameplay is as complex as Pacman, it's a movie game.
If it was made by Sony, it's a movie game.
A "movie game" is a game that spends more time in cinematics than in gameplay and the gameplay unrewarding making the cinematics the only remarkable thing about the game.
It's not necessarily the lengthy cutscenes that make something a movie game. Rather, it's that the gameplay employs a lot of "comfort" features, that assist the player through the game. So that nobody gets filtered by the gameplay.
This is stuff like:
-heavy handed aim assist.
-Health rejuvenation.
-Vague health bars in general. Who can really say how much you got shot, based on the redness of the screen? If you had clear numbers, then you would be able to clearly see how forgiving the game is.
-Intrusive tutorials
-Snap-to platforming. That's when you just hold the thumbstick in the general direction you want to move, and press the interact button, and the game automatically jumps to the next platform or ledge.
-Crafting. It's just "give me resource now" ability. Rather than contemplating what resources you might need *before* you go out on a journey.
-Quick time events.
There's probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. But this is just what came to mind now. Basically, the game ends up playing itself, and you don't realize it, because they tricked you into making you think you were doing all the things. It's a more passive experience.
MGS4
Genuinely good gameplay but it doesn't give you nearly enough time to ACTUALLY FRICKING PLAY IT with how every 10 mins you're interrupted by a codec call or a cutscene.
Why didn't this person just autobuild a motorcycle?
I just posted a clear image of Link carrying the stone. But that's just one situation. Using ultrahand helps, sure. But Link is still moving at walking pace with Ultra hand. So same as Kratos moving at walking pace while carrying his rock.
Building a vehicle isn't really worth it short distances. But in the case of the Lost Wood, Link has to travel over uneven terrain, around closely placed trees, through mud traps, and through enemies. So is it really worth pulling out a vehicle, just to slowly move through the twist and turns, so as to avoid bumping into everything? Bing vulnerable to enemy attacks, and ultimately having to stop when you come across the mud?
It's not worth it.
But there there are other green stone missions set in the sky. So you have to figure out how to maneuver around on something other than a land vehicle. This one stone was in the side of the flying island, and you had to fiddle around with zonai parts to move the large hover stones around. It was a giant pain.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>So same as Kratos moving at walking pace while carrying his rock.
No it's not. Because in Onions of War you have no other option. In TOTK not only is that quest optional, you have several different ways to go about it. You chose the worst option, to carry it on Link's shoulders, and then try to say it's the same as Onions of War. >Building a vehicle isn't really worth it in short distances >Link has to travel over uneven terrain, through mud traps, and through enemies
You just gave a very good reason why you would want to build a vehicle to circumvent the bullshit on the ground. Those obstacles are still more than the nothing that was in
Upon further deliberation I have decided that it was in fact "kino"
11 months ago
Anonymous
>In TOTK not only is that quest optional
The ability to skip content, is never an excuse for how badly its designed.
>You chose the worst option, to carry it on Link's shoulders
Again, it's just a picture. I got it off of google. Personally, I used ultrahand to carry those things.
>You just gave a very good reason why you would want to build a vehicle to circumvent the bullshit on the ground
I just gave you like 4 reasons why a vehicle is not optimal in that level. It's not worth building a vehicle, when you have to stop and go every second, and manuver around tight obstacles. Imagine all the reversing you have to do to get around shit. All the white, enemies are shooting you with bows, or just coming up to you ans slashing you. And you're just jittering on the control stick like an idiot, trying to get around some trees.
That was my initial complaint. That ToTK does the same thing, except they make you fiddle with zonai parts for 30 minutes to get the job done.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>That was my initial complaint. That ToTK does the same thing, except they make you fiddle with zonai parts for 30 minutes to get the job done.
I disagree
Tears of the Kingdom makes you do the same thing, except you have to fiddle around with zonai parts for 30 minutes.
Come on man. As someone who criticizes TOTK, you could've easily used the LITERAL WALKING SEGMENT in the tutorial and intro, one that's unskippable and is just listening to Zelda blabber on.
Why would I use a tutorial to criticize the game? That's dumb. I mean, I get the tutorial is long. But it has to teach new players how to play. And it has to teach experienced players the new mechanics.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Because TOTK is about freedom and non-linearity, so you'd think they'd add an option to skip the tutorial and intro, especially for people who've already played the game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And have a million arrogant now-it-alls complain about the game, because they don't know how to properly interact with Zonai parts? Nah. That's a bad idea.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Minor nitpick
>player freedom is bad because... someone else might accidentally skip the tutorial
11 months ago
Anonymous
Did you quote the wrong post? I didn't say those things.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why do you consider it a minor nitpick? Shouldn't any change, regardless of size, be considered good if it makes for a better game? And isn't the reason why people hate movieshit is because it treats the player like a baby and barely gives them agency? Why not give them some agency and let them skip the tutorial?
When you're making games for literally a billion people then yes. >b-but nintendo shouldve operated in a fashion completely counterintuitive to their actual goals
Dinging a game for the circumstances it's made under is like dinging a man's looks because he's homeless; he might theoretically be able to help the latter situation, but telling him he's handling the former situation wrong without acknowledging the latter is just plain silly
>When you're making games for literally a billion people then yes.
And if you those people need the tutorial, they can go through it normally. Putting a "skip tutorial" button into the game isn't going to kill anyone.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>And if you those people need the tutorial, they can go through it normally
Many will choose not to. Yes they're moronic, no it is not Nintendo's fault they have to appeal to these people.
11 months ago
Anonymous
In that case, why not just give everyone god mode and noclip, so the poor casuals will never suffer a penalty for playing the game wrong?
11 months ago
Anonymous
We're literally on the way to that, haven't the last six marios or something (bar odyssey) have some manner of "frick you just let me past" mode if you died too much? It sucks that Nintendo is going down that path but frick man, at least they're hanging on to an extent.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Why do you consider it a minor nitpick? Shouldn't any change, regardless of size, be considered good if it makes for a better game? And isn't the reason why people hate movieshit is because it treats the player like a baby and barely gives them agency? Why not give them some agency and let them skip the tutorial?
This tactic is called gish galloping which is a dishonest debate tactic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'll shorten it for you. If it's a minor nitpick, then it won't ruin the game if you changed it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It's a minor nitpick and doesn't and doesn't improve anything if changed.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>want to get right into the game >don't like tutorials >add a "skip tutorial" button >can now get right to the game
>THIS IS A BAD THING, YOU'RE LITERALLY RUINING VIDEO GAMES IF YOU WANT THIS
11 months ago
Anonymous
>>don't like tutorials
zoom zoom
11 months ago
Anonymous
>don't like tutorials
11 months ago
Anonymous
My post didn't say those things.
11 months ago
Anonymous
When you're making games for literally a billion people then yes. >b-but nintendo shouldve operated in a fashion completely counterintuitive to their actual goals
Dinging a game for the circumstances it's made under is like dinging a man's looks because he's homeless; he might theoretically be able to help the latter situation, but telling him he's handling the former situation wrong without acknowledging the latter is just plain silly
11 months ago
Anonymous
Look, I'm all for player freedom. But not when half of the game requires the player to interact with complex mechanics. In that case, you have to teach them. I'm not even saying they will *accidentally* skip the tutorial. I'm saying that they'll purposely skip it, because in their arrogance, they think they know what they're doing.
And then when they struggle to get anything done, because they don't intuitively understand how Zonai parts work, they're cry and blame the game for their own moronation.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Look anon, if they're dumb enough to skip the tutorial and then not know how things work, then they won't know how things work even if they do the tutorial, as they won't have the brainpower to complete it. You're operating on the premise that you can fix a fatal flaw in casuals, IE their inability to learn. Or do we need a refresher on how these morons will struggle even with a mandatory tutorial?
Webm for clarity. Being mandatory didn't help this guy learn it, and he still took points off from the game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>then they won't know how things work even if they do the tutorial
Well that's just plain false. If tutorials didn't succeed in teaching people to play the game, then nobody would make tutorials.
>You're operating on the premise that you can fix a fatal flaw in casuals
You're operating under the logical fallacy that everyone who gets lost in a game is a casual. I've personally witnessed many people who I would consider not-casual, make some really dumb mistakes, because they were too arrogant to read how things are done. Some games are too complex to just let the player go. It's like trying to teach the player the player how to play chess without telling him how the pieces move first.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Well that's just plain false. If tutorials didn't succeed in teaching people to play the game, then nobody would make tutorials.
Stupid people beat tutorials all the time, then complain because the game expands out and does things not covered in the tutorial. You're never gonna appease them, so why even try?
>I've personally witnessed many people who I would consider not-casual, make some really dumb mistakes, because they were too arrogant to read how things are done'
That's their choice to not read. Don't punish me for their actions.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Stupid people beat tutorials all the time, then complain because the game expands out and does things not covered in the tutorial. You're never gonna appease them, so why even try?
I've seen not-casual gamers do that too. You don't get what I'm saying. There is a mindset that is not exclusive to casual or not-casual. You can't appease everybody. But you can reduce complaining a great deal, but forcing tutorials.
Again, when literally half of your entire game relies on understanding complex mechanics, then you have to teach it to them. Can you learn the intricacies of baseball without someone to explain the rules? No. Why 3 outs? It's an arbitrary number. Why is catching a ball an out? It's an arbitrary action. What's a strike zone? You can't know these things without being explicitly told. Or otherwise, watching other people play long enough to learn the rules.
Your gay idea of freedom, comes at the cost of common fricking sense.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>There is a mindset that is not exclusive to casual or not-casual. You can't appease everybody. But you can reduce complaining a great deal, but forcing tutorials.
And how does that benefit me, personally? I couldn't care less that these people don't know how to play vidya and need instructions spoonfed for them. For all I care, they can all take a barefoot jog over a field of lego bricks. Why should my experience be neutered for their sake?
>Again, when literally half of your entire game relies on understanding complex mechanics, then you have to teach it to them.
Then put it in the manual. This is a Nintendo game, that still embraces physical releases, so it should be trivial for them. If someone is so stupid that they are not even willing to read the manual, then my kind suggestion to them would be this: stop playing vidya and jump off the nearest cliff, you oxygen thief.
These mouth breathers are exactly why movieshit is so prevalent.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Why should my experience be neutered for their sake?
Your experience wasn't neutered. >Then put it in the manual
Or in the game. It doesn't really matter.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>your experience wasn't neutered
I'm forced through a boring tutorial for a game I've already played. Objectively you're keeping me from the actually fun gameplay.
>And how does that benefit me, personally?
Well you are learning the game. Whether you like it or not. The knowledge gained is a benefit to you. Let me ask you this: how would your experience be improved by skipping the tutorial? You get to the surface faster... and then what? You would still have to learn the new mechanics. Except now, you're learning more slowly through trial and error. The collective time it takes for you to learn the mechanics that way, will likely be longer than the tutorial. Now every task you want to complete takes longer than it would be if you just did the tutorial first. And you'll end up relying on old techniques from the previous game as a filler for your lack of knowledge on how the new game works.
>Then put it in the manual
Imagine trying to learn how to play baseball from a manual. Rather than actually being in a game and being coached.
>how would your experience be improved by skipping the tutorial?
Trial and error teaches me how to play naturally. The time I spend is my own time, looking around and figuring out what to do, where I can go, where I can't go, etc. I am allowed to make that choice, not the game, so the time is not wasted in the slightest. And if it's a good game, it teaches you naturally via the gameplay, instead of needing a tutorial shoved down your throat.
>Imagine trying to learn how to play baseball from a manual. Rather than actually being in a game and being coached.
I refuse to play baseball at all if I'm not allowed a choice between them. It's not worth being babied and restricted.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm forced through a boring tutorial for a game I've already played. Objectively you're keeping me from the actually fun gameplay.
Not really. It's a nitpick at best.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm forced through a boring tutorial for a game I've already played.
The game isn't meant to be replayed. It's not an arcade game.
Tell me, do you think people are ruining the artist's vision if they romhack games to remove the tutorial and intro entirely? Should we throw people in jail for adding a "skip cutscene/tutorial" button into games that didn't have them previously?
11 months ago
Anonymous
would you actually play the games if they had skip options or would you still find something else to whine about
11 months ago
Anonymous
I skip every tutorial I can, even in brand new games. Not my fault filthy casuals can't learn how to play.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's cool
11 months ago
Anonymous
It wouldn't make the game that much worse or better. It's a minor nitpick.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I mean, it depends. It's really a case by case thing. But in the case of TotK, you'll end up missing important parts of the story if you skipped the beginning. So you're really shooting yourself in the foot.
I don't really care what you hack or mod. But if you're going to mod out the tutorial on your first playthrough, then you forfeit the right to critique the game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>you'll end up missing important parts of the story
11 months ago
Anonymous
name exactly 1 video game you like BECAUSE of the story
11 months ago
Anonymous
>liking video games for the story
11 months ago
Anonymous
surely you have at least one personal exception here
11 months ago
Anonymous
I like video games for their lack of story. Like Minecraft or Tetris or Pacman. The story is the friends we made along the way.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Tetris or Pacman >no story
11 months ago
Anonymous
>implying I even care enough to delve into the "lore" of stacking blocks, or a circle eating dots
11 months ago
Anonymous
I am well-versed on Pac-Man history. Do not tempt me to infodump on you, plebeian.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>story and cutscenes only matter when I say they matter
11 months ago
Anonymous
I even care enough to delve into the "lore" of stacking blocks, or a circle eating dots
Pac-Man World
Pac-Man World 2
Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness
Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures
Pac 'n Roll DS
Puyo Puyo Tetris
Puyo Puyo Tetris 2
11 months ago
Anonymous
Tetris
11 months ago
Anonymous
Any other Zelda game for starters
BotW and TotK have awful stories man, and the way they're told is assbackwards
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm forced through a boring tutorial for a game I've already played.
The game isn't meant to be replayed. It's not an arcade game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Trial and error teaches me how to play naturally. The time I spend is my own time, looking around and figuring out what to do, where I can go, where I can't go, etc. I am allowed to make that choice, not the game, so the time is not wasted in the slightest.
These are all platitudes. They're principles that you like to say because it makes you feel good. But in practical application, they don't always work out. Trial an error is good in many cases. But it's not always good. Like when it comes to learning controls. The controls shouldn't be the challenge of the game. Figuring out what to do on your own is fine. Except how can you make informed decisions without knowing your options? "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Did you solve a puzzle the way you did because you had agency? Or did you solve it the way you did, because you skipped the tutorial for a key mechanic, and had to come up with some borderline exploit to subvert the puzzle?
>I refuse to play baseball at all if I'm not allowed a choice between them.
Can you imagine? "Let me play! No, I don't know any of the rules, and I DON'T WANT YOU TO TELL ME. Just let me figure it out. What do you mean it's not my turn to bat? How was I supposed to know that? Your game isn't very good at teaching via gameplay."
11 months ago
Anonymous
>But in practical application, they don't always work out. Trial an error is good in many cases. But it's not always good. Like when it comes to learning controls.
Says you. Mechwarrior and Armored Core and Chromehounds are ten times as fun when you're just mashing buttons and figuring out which button does what, and I'd say those games are mechanically more complex than most AAA movies, or even genuinely good games.
>Except how can you make informed decisions without knowing your options?
Figure out your options, casual. Stop asking to be spoonfed.
>"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".
When you come across something that can't be hammered in, then it dawns on you to try something else. If everything is functionally a nail, then that;s the game's fault.
>Did you solve a puzzle the way you did because you had agency? Or did you solve it the way you did, because you skipped the tutorial for a key mechanic, and had to come up with some borderline exploit to subvert the puzzle?
Isn't this the entire selling point of modern Zelda, that you can bypass the entire shrine or dungeon because you made a rocket shield outside the shrine and then just skipped the whole thing? Webm related.
>Can you imagine? "Let me play! No, I don't know any of the rules, and I DON'T WANT YOU TO TELL ME. Just let me figure it out.
Which is why a manual would help, or better yet, just letting me take a bat and a ball and practice in the ballpark. If I'm "playing it wrong" then I have every right to do that. I'll deal with the consequences that result from it, but that'll be my choice. Better to die a free man than live as a slave.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I disagree
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Mechwarrior and Armored Core and Chromehounds
Yeah, but I don't believe *my* platitudes are universally applicable either. You selected multiple games where *the point* is to get accustomed to the controls. So for them, learning controls is the experience. But that's not the case for the majority of other games. And certainly not the case for Zelda.
>Figure out your options, casual. Stop asking to be spoonfed
Learning controls and rules, is not the same as being spoonfed solutions. Just look at your webm. There was no part of the tutorial that told you to do that. The only thing the tutorial told you, was how you can attach objects to your shield.
>When you come across something that can't be hammered in, then it dawns on you to try something else.
And when you don't know the rules or controls, then what will you try?
>or better yet, just letting me take a bat and a ball and practice in the ballpark
That's what the tutorial is. >Better to die a free man than live as a slave.
A free man is when you have to spend about 2 hours going through a very loose tutorial that has multiple solutions for progress. Bit dramatic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Yeah, but I don't believe *my* platitudes are universally applicable either.
*My* platitudes are universally applicable because they're objectively correct. Learning should be a fun experience gained from your own intuition.
>Learning controls and rules, is not the same as being spoonfed solutions.
Learn it on your own time. Stop wasting my time.
>And when you don't know the rules or controls, then what will you try?
Everything. If this was a point and click, you'd poke and touch every single thing in a room just because you can.
>That's what the tutorial is.
Um, no. I'm not having exposition shoved in my face in the park.
>A free man is when you have to spend about 2 hours going through a very loose tutorial that has multiple solutions for progress.
Walking down a hallway with zero agency is "loose"? lol
11 months ago
Anonymous
>If I'm "playing it wrong" then I have every right to do that. I'll deal with the consequences that result from it, but that'll be my choice. Better to die a free man than live as a slave.
You're the type of person, that thinks schools, educational institutions, and so on, should all be dismantled and every kid should just learn by themselves, do you? You were the guy that rebelled constantly against his teachers and own parents, weren't you?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You're the type of person, that thinks schools, educational institutions, and so on, should all be dismantled Public schools and colleges, anyway. Those are complete scams. Private schools, even homeschooling, and learning a trade are so much better.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>And how does that benefit me, personally?
Well you are learning the game. Whether you like it or not. The knowledge gained is a benefit to you. Let me ask you this: how would your experience be improved by skipping the tutorial? You get to the surface faster... and then what? You would still have to learn the new mechanics. Except now, you're learning more slowly through trial and error. The collective time it takes for you to learn the mechanics that way, will likely be longer than the tutorial. Now every task you want to complete takes longer than it would be if you just did the tutorial first. And you'll end up relying on old techniques from the previous game as a filler for your lack of knowledge on how the new game works.
>Then put it in the manual
Imagine trying to learn how to play baseball from a manual. Rather than actually being in a game and being coached.
11 months ago
Anonymous
There are no arbitrary actions in a game, is not a sport. The game rules are obvious by the game world itself, I just know that getting smacked by an enemie is not a good thing, you learn the rules of the game world by just interacting with it,
11 months ago
Anonymous
>There are no arbitrary actions in a game
There are >is not a sport
Sports are games
11 months ago
Anonymous
Bring back manuals >b-but
No. If you're too lazy to read the manual, then you better figure out all that shit on your own or go play Candy Crush instead
A game that tries it's hardest to look like a movie while still having gameplay and being considered a game. It does so to attract the movie watching masses that needs easy gameplay to get through and still feel like they're interacting with the world.
a game that not only has a big focus on story but also tries to make its gameplay "cinematic" with shit like slow walking dialogue scenes during gameplay and in general the games try to present themselves more like movies almost as if they're ashamed of being video games. this is probably the best definition i can think of because not all games with somewhat of a story focus or long cutscenes are like this.
i dont like "movie game" being so broad because there are literal movie games like Walking Dead and Until Dawn. idk another term that would satisfy people that just want to shit on games they dont play.
Do you know how Visual Novel is a "book game"? Add cinematic scenes and spoken text instead of fixed portraits and written text and you have a movie game.
There's nothing wrong with movie games in principle, what makes people angry is when an adventure or action game puts more emphasis on the cinematic part than the adventure and action.
Some people think it has to do with excessive cutscenes and or dialog. But this is false. "Movie game" came about as a term in the 7th gen with releases like TLOU, Uncharted, and Bioshock, while cutscene and dialog excessive games existed since basically the beginning. It has to do with how the game plays like a glorified cutscene during actual gameplay segments.
These games almost always have escort characters that exist purely to dump exposition on your and quip while you play. If there aren't sidekicks constantly talking then the MC constantly talks to themselves. And they aren't just hint givers, they tell the story as you "play"
These games are almost entirely 3rd person over the shoulder action games made by western developers. Because if they weren't then how would the devs showcase their face scans as your character gets very angry or sad frequently for shallow reasons.
Gameplay and cutscenes are completely intertwined. You are often forced to just walk slowly down a hall for reasons I can not understand.
Any suspence is forced by cinematics, not gameplay. Your character is always nearly killed during THAT gameplay segment, but survives all on their own, you didn't even have to push any button, maybe a timed button press
These games always have kill scenes where your character spends 10 seconds being le epic badass stabbing the enemy in the chest a dozen time while other enemies stand around and watch.
The end result is everyone walks away having played the same game the same way. There was no other way to progress other than to do exactly what the devs intended you to do to experience the game. Like those slow moving water rides where shit happens around you as you sit still.
Bonus points if the game's intent was to teach a lesson.
A game where over half of the game is watching cutscenes and listening to dialogue
Alternatively, a game that is nothing but story choices and QTEs, although these two definitions often overlap
It's a game that is predominantly focused on a story which is told through cutscenes and long-winded dialogue. The issues with these games is that they tend to neglect the sort of organic storytelling and atmosphere that comes through gameplay. On top of that, video game writing in general is amateurish.
A video game that's have minimal depth in its gameplay, but also long long long stretches of the game trying to talk to you or tell you a story.
Current Naughty Dog is that. A game that rather be a controllable movie than anything with mechanical complexity/interaction.
There's nothing actually wrong with these, but if they're really bad then they're the worst.
People b***h about Kojima, but those cutscenes are skippable and you're right back to pretty damn good gameplay. David Cage games on the other hand have sequences devoid of real gameplay.
Majority cutscenes while the "gameplay" is more basic and bland than a children's point and click edutainment title from the 90's.
So mostly Sony titles.
All cutscenes should be skippable and the player should not have less understanding of the game by skipping them. Problem with cutscenes is that they are too long, its a videogame, I would rather watch a movie if Im just going to sit staring at the screen doing nothing.
Imo the best cutscene system is the gta one, where the cutscenes are short to give the main point of the plot and also are skippable, but the characters talk with each other while you do the mission so you dont really miss whats going on if you skip it
“Movie game” is a term of derision aimed at games that use that awful hollywood/netflix tone. It’s an insult. It loses its meaning when misused for games like Doom because you can’t shoot for two minutes twice.
A game that is more focused on spectacle than trying to bring engaging gameplay. Terrible replay value because once you've seen the spectacle, all you're left with is bland mechanics and gameplay.
The type of games that Telltale and Super Massive make. Games that are no more than making decisions while watching things happen. Games where getting to the next scene IS the gameplay and nothing else like you’re watching a movie. People that say Sony games like nu-GoW are “movie games” are just moronic kids that have a hate boner for Sony
A game where the story is overwhelmingly the main focus, gameplay is often seen as an afterthought
Alternatively, a game made by failed Hollywood writers desperately trying to cling to relevancy
no
frick you
a movie game is a shitty "game" that is basically a fricking movie and all you do is walk from point a to point b to point c to point d and each point is a fricking cinematic that is most likely gay and full of homoerotic homosexualry
eat a dick op and drown yourself in a piranha pool motherfricking son of a transvestite b***h
Remember when video games had a simple plot and a noncomplex narrative? I don't want games to be epics; they shouldn't be trying to mimic Holywood. You can thank Cuckman for blighting directors for the next 10 years thinking that narratives take priority over gameplay (and guess what, he's making massive royalties now since the HBO show is a massive success, so he's not going anywhere). People don't want their time wasted, that's the problem now that we're in the 2020s with the stagnation of gameplay and storytelling. The 2010s had an issue with games just having low quality overall. Movie games are the most successful products right now since by forcing the player to watch the plot unfold, they feel like their time isn't wasted, but consequently the core gameplay suffers. People have been movie to the indie scene to fulfill that feeling back in the 1990s and early 2000s, but now indie devs are kinda making themselves look like clowns from all the complaining they make public on social media
Movie games are games that have unskippable cutscenes that span more than 10% of total gameplay length time often on the same or more length of movie duration more than 2 hrs
The entire main focus experience of game is through cut scenes and not through gameplay
There you go
If your game has a cutscene that's longer than a minute, I'm not playing it.
If your game has no cutscenes, its as simple and braindead as Tetris.
whats wrong with tetris homosexual?
Only autists play Tetris competitively. On the same tier as speedrunning.
How about playing the game period? Or is your zoom zoom brain incapable of that?
nobody said anything about comp, moron
>le oomer
>competitively
the frick???
competitive tetris comes in a certain flavor for every tetris game people play. I think NES Tetris, Tetris The Grand Master 2/3(?), and whatever "proper vs. Tetris" game is latest are the most popular competitive games.
H-HAYAI
oh no, autists on Ganker
who could have foreseen such a phenomena
Looks like a movie, sounds like a movie, plays like a movie, its a movie
Tetris is one of the greatest videogames, doesn't need to hide its deficiencies behind movieshit
correction: Tetris IS the greatest game of all time. In 30+ years it's needed no "remakes" or "reimaginings", it was always just "Tetris". It immediately drops you into the game, has simple controls and an easy to understand goal but with challenging gameplay and it's infinitely addictive and replayable.
>plays like a movie
you don't play a movie though IDIOT
if the game has any gameplay whatsoever, it is automatically not a movie game
if the game plays itself without player input, then it's a movie game
Seething
I wish more games aspired to be as purely gameplay focused as Tetris.
Even Maplestory these days is infected with hours of unskippable cutscene.
Just bind your npc interact button to "Y" and hold it during cutscenes.
It still takes 30 minutes to get to level 30 just from cutscenes alone. You kill like 5 whole monsters during that entire time.
You're not wrong, but that's what I do to deal with it. The worst is when they put NO where YES should be so you start the dialogue over.
>explorers have like no story
>they even add in functionality to let you get their emblem without dealing with cutscenes
>massive overhaul comes
>they now have annoying ass story shit like the other crappy new jobs
Gay.
what's worse is when a game doesn't inundate you with forty hours of cutscenes and tutorials morons will cry on twitter and call it a "bad game" because they couldn't be fricked to play a video GAME
Not at all most strategy games have very little amount of cutscenes of any at all.
>braindead
>as Tetris
>a puzzle game so worldwide and renowned for its extremely simple concept that is impossible to master that to this day people obsess over each new release of the game
>as opposed to
>the last of us
>listen to a dyke tell you about her feefees during the apocalypse and have the game literally play itself if you choose not to interact
>a puzzle game so worldwide and renowned for its extremely simple concept that is impossible to master that to this day people obsess over each new release of the game
ah yes, people obsess about the latest tetris games, they wear tetris merch, buy tetris plushes, go to tetriscon. i really like the 1.045b update where they slightly changed the smoothness of the block rotation, we eating good tetrischads.
>puyo puyo tetris 1/2
>tetris effect
>tetris 99
>the tetris movie
They wouldn't keep making them if people didn't buy them.
t.level 10let
>needs a 4 hour prologue in which the T-block becomes jaded after its family dies so it can be reluctantly redeemed during its journey from the top of the screen to the bottom
You're a failed screenwriter who's never actually finished a sceenplay aren't you
>the absolute state of moviegame gays that they'd shit on a game like tetris
Tetris is so good that it has universal appeal, or at least I thought it did, until I saw someone as moronic as you. Tetris has rock solid game design that has stood the test of time for almost half of a fricking century and STILL can get sales 39 years after it's release, meanwhile the average person barely even remembers a lot of movie games, it's just consumable media meant to be thrown aside like a candy wrapper once you've eaten the contents.
I knew movie game morons were bad, but shitting on tetris? That's a new low. If you had your way, Tetris would dump fricking 40 minutes of pretentious cutscenes about how the line block hates clearing 4 rows of lines before you actually got to drop a single god damn block. I have nothing but contempt for you.
>aZOOManga poster
>brain dead take
Lol. Lmao.
This, but with the exception of intro and ending cutscenes. Cutscenes that shape the whole game sometimes need more time, but cutscenes just about minor NPC quests should be very short.
dang that's a small pool of games to play.
Fake azumanga fan. The show is slower paced with it's humour. It's obvious you'd get bored
if it's licensed game based on a movie, then it's movie game.
""""""game"""""" """""stories""""" are supposed to be a cherry on top, not the main focus. when its the opposite its a movie game
anything by david cage
mgs4
death stranding
MGS4, the second best game in the series
Game where most of the important moments happen in a cut scene or a limited movement state.
Name 5 sony exclusives for ps5
Astro's Playroom
The Dark Pictures: Switchback VR
Demon's Souls (2020 video game)
Destruction AllStars
Final Fantasy XVI
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
Horizon Call of the Mountain
M
Marvel's Wolverine
Rise of the Rōnin
Spider-Man 2 (2023 video game)
Stellar Blade
None of those are exlucives try again
Game that has cinematics take ten times more focus than gameplay
Movie games are something like Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain, or Until Dawn. Stuff like nu-GoW or MGS aren't movie games, just cutscene heavy. That'd be like calling Morrowind a VN because there's a lot of reading.
why do you think nobody calls morrowind a visual novel then?
Because Morrowind isn't the topic of console war bullshit anymore so the cabal of shitposting homosexuals that make up the bulk of this site have no reason to target it.
meds
Its a walking simulator, a spinoff of moviegames
When the nonplayable part is more than or equal to a tenth of the total recorded non-afk playtime.
20 hour game? You shouldn't need more than 2 hours to tell the story outside of my literal control.
Devs need to learn to tell a lot of what they want to tell during gameplay without using notes or data logs strewn over tables, and use cutscenes for intros, endings, and plot defining moments.
Discoverable notes/datalogs are the best thing though. Entirely optional lore for people who care to take their time.
Personally, I feel that being compelled to sit and read half an hours worth of notes throughout a games runtime is little different than just getting on the game's wiki and reading the plot there.
You have a medium with so many creative ways to tell a story and you choose to write it down, stop the player, and say "time to know why you're doing what you're doing".
Nah. It lacks any sort of imagination.
does the game rely primarily on cutscenes and walk&talk segments (player is walking down a long path without the ability to do much, if anything at all, while NPCs talk) to tell the story to the player?
if the answer to this question is yes, its a movie game.
ACgay bait thread
facts and logic are not bait, friendo
A game usually not featured on my favorite corporation's platform
Cutscenes =/= movie game.
Gameplay that is non-existent as seen in GoW and TLoU = movie game
You have to ask yourself if the game can survive without its story. If the only reason people play is because muh politics or muh waifus, then it's not a good game. It can even be discarded as a movie game. Sadly, most JRPGs fall into this, and pretty much every snoy exclusive falls into this.
man they really give metal gear solid 4 a run for its money on cutscene length
Simplified gameplay, too many cutscenes, generic soundtrack, linear maps etc
>5 min of walking, 10 min of talking, 10 min of fighting, walking back to X 5 min, 5 min of talking
that's a fricking movie game
If your "game" has 30% or more just fricking cutscenes, its not a game, there are some exceptions.
I have extremely low tolerance for force walking segments like this.
It feels like a lazy replacement for an actual cutscenes and they're usually not skippable either.
Too much bla bla no bang bang.
a game that would literally be better if they removed all gameplay parts
see alan wake or any of nu-snoy turds
GoW Ragnarök
maybe has 6 hour of gameplay
It was made by people who failed to get into Hollywood and got into videogames because they're popular, while despising videogames as a medium
cinematic realism & minimalism, simplified gameplay, mechanics, UI and content over autistic video game elements and games that aren't embarrased to be video games. Amount of cutscenes is actually irrelevant as along as the gameplay is unapologetically video gameay.
3rd person over the shoulder game which is heavily story focused as well as uses cutscenes and writing as it's major selling point. Movie games often overuse the "walking-while-talking" storytelling where character is in control of their character while they speak. Heavy railroading and lack of player agency in the approach for gameplay.
Simplified gameplay and low difficulty so anyone can "experience" the game.
If you can get the whole experience of said game by watching cutscenes and walking-while-talking from YT, then it's a movie game.
It's trivial to pick out snoy exclusives as movieshit because of how blatant they are, but that's just taking the easy way out. You need to analyze the motives behind a video game, to determine if it's a movie. Final Fantasy 7, for example, is a cinematic movie game whether you're talking about the original or the remake. How would you figure this? Well, let's compare a typical combat segment to, oh say, something more videogamey. This is a typical special attack from a final fantasy game.
...and this is a special attack from an actual video game. Notice the differences.
>you are directly responsible for the actions
>there is greater risk of failure
>the player personally feels responsible for the outcome
This is why I laugh when someone says "B-BUT JRPGS HAVE 100 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY". Your 100 hours is nothing but watching cinematic action attacks and walking down hallways.
Tendies think their ultra simplified JRPG is something to be proud about, the only thing those inputs are doing are trying to transform that JRPG into an action JRPG.
>participating in combat bad
>clicking from a menu and watching a cutscene good
As i said its just to hide's Paper Mario's lack of any mechanic that isn't just "i hit you for two damage instead of one", now by pressing a button at the correct time you get another +1, also don't try to make people believe that the games don't have huge amounts of dialog, instead of cinematic moments you are interrupted constantly by text.
>As i said its just to hide's Paper Mario's lack of
>Paper Mario
Bing Bing Wahoo RPG or whatever its called, they are all the same, just like Dragon Quest they are about as generic as japanese games can be
Then play the japanese Wizardry or SMT, what's that too much of a b***h to do it?
>bing bing wahoo RPGs all play the same
>no i've never played them, why does that matter?
>simplified JRPG
JRPG are simplified by default lol
>I GO BING BING WAHOO INSTEAD OF CLICK CLICK CLICK THAT MEAN MY GAMERINO BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>I GO BING BING WAHOO INSTEAD OF CLICK CLICK CLICK THAT MEAN MY GAMERINO BETTER
He's right. In M&L you actually have perform the attacks correctly.
>M&L SSS - Bros. Attacks
>have fail states where you don't pull them off
>Some of these actually give you a different end result instead of just missing the target and may even be ideal in some situations
>By using them successfully you can unlock an advanced string of inputs to change the attack up again
It's a really nice system that I'm annoyed was replaced by items in the following games
You don't go "click click click" in Final Fantasy though. You press one button to activate a summon and then get up to go take a shit
late 90s squareslop still living rent free in anon's head
simply brilliant
>order food from restaurant
>waiter brings you pile of shit
>complain
>"HAHA RENT FREE!"
>food analogy
>i ate there 20 years ago it kinda sucked compared to this thing i got yesterday
Anime games get free pass here all the time despite being movie games too
Wouldn't know never play these types of games.
You couldn't possibly have cherripickied harder even if you tried, even picking the pal version. What an absolute dishonest homosexual you are.
>DVD menu combat
>FMV cutscenes
>1000s of textboxes to mash through
Why does this shit game get a pass when it's more of a movie than TLOU or GOW?
Play one of the pre-PlayStation Final Fantasies. 4 and 6 don't have the FMV videos and didn't need to.
Already did. They're just as bad.
>fight guy in cutscene
>win fight
>game says I lose in the cutscene
Into the trash it goes.
>not giving specific examples
yeah uh-huh okay i totally believe you bub
FF4
>beat Golbez by having Tellah meteo him
>"um, I survived because... I just did chud!"
>beat Golbez by having Rydia freeze him with mist dragon
>"um, I actually survived because you didnt kill my pinky finger, which also lets me take the crystal even though i'm slowly crawling towards it and you could just stop me at any time"
>Cecil is stronger than Kain by the time he comes back into the story
>but now Kain can overpower 4 people when escaping the trapped cave, AND can take the crystal with him
FF6
>beat Kefka multiple times at Doma
>"tee hee I escaped"
>beat Kefka at Narshe
>"t-that was an illusion, chud!"
>beat Kefka again at thamasa
>literally uses the oldest, most tired cliche in the book
>"IT WAS AN ILLUSION TEE HEE"
>somehow he's also capable of soloing the entire party by himself because off screen hyperbolic time chamber or some stupid shuit
I SURE LOVE NOT HAVING AGENCY
>I SURE LOVE NOT HAVING AGENCY
Literally yes. Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned linear game.
>"game"
We're talking about Final Fantasy though, a series that's movieshit on par with TLOU.
nope, still a game, unlike TLOU
>b-but muh agency
lacking agency because the next boss is always going to be the next boss =/= lacking agency because the creator thinks you're a bad person if you want to do something different from them
and no, the first is NOT equivalent to the second
Don't waste my time asking me to do something, if you're just gonna make it useless within mere seconds.
>spend half an hour getting the black materia from the ancient temple
>UH OH SEPHIROTH USES CONVENIENT PLOT POWERS TO GET IT WITHOUT A FIGHT WHOOPSIE DOOPSIE
>collect more than half the crystals in FF4
>UH OH THE PLOT SAYS YOU LOSE THEM ALL BECAUSE YOU TRIPPED AND THEY FELL OUT THE WINDOW, SORRY M8, ALSO MIND CONTROL AT RANDOM INTERVALS
Throw them in the garbage.
>Don't waste my time asking me to do something, if you're just gonna make it useless within mere seconds.
Are you sent back to a point in a game before you get those tasks done? No? Then you were never going to do anything with those tasks. They were the prerequisite to the game continuing and nothing more. Games are not obligated to be honest.
>Are you sent back to a point in a game before you get those tasks done?
Yes, as a matter of fact. When I lose a crystal in FF4, I have to go to ANOTHER copypasted and boring dungeon and grind against mobs for 20 minutes, only to lose the crystal again and again. You're boring me to death by repetition.
>When I lose a crystal in FF4, I have to go to ANOTHER
And you were going to get them all anyway if you were going to play the game. Thus, it's progress, the game doesn't force you to redo the same thing and your complaint that it FEELS the same is fricking dumb immaterial horseshit
>And you were going to get them all anyway if you were going to play the game.
Or, if this was a more competent game, I'd be allowed to ignore the crystals, dig up the lunar whale, and fly to the moon so I can punch Zemus in the face, and then punch Zeromus in the face too.
>b-but the prophecy! the story
I missed the part where that's my problem.
>Or, if this was a more competent game, I'd be allowed to
freedom =/= being allowed to do more things
Maybe I should be allowed to do more things. It's why vanilla FF4 is almost unplayable, while Free Enterprise is a must-play every other month.
>Maybe I should be allowed to do more things
i really don't give a frick and have never understood why anyone would, if the game is a line it's a goddamn line, creating a remotely enjoyable complexity and stat curve is hard enough if you expect players to take a single path through it
name one game
More is not better until you've ensured the baseline is great
FF1-6
>DVD menu combat
>Sprites wiggle/bounc/run around during textbox cutscenes
>3000 textboxes to mash through
Are all FF games actually just movie shit?
You already know the answer: MUH ANIME WAIFU breasts OMG XD
because the story is about the characters and not the writer's stance on fricking geopolitics
> *click*; *click* - Wahoo!
Cutscene longer than four minutes and characters spend most of the game walking while talking after a cutscene ends, thus technically extending the cutscene.
cutscene:gameplay > 2 (for the main content; side quests are optional fluff/padding)
If the total time of cut scenes is more than the total amount of time you spend actually playing the game, then it's a movie game. JRPG's are pretty much the only things that fit this criteria. Anybody complaining something else is a movie game is usually just butt hurt over something stupid.
>JRPG's are pretty much the only things that fit this criteria
argument from ignorance here
see
People will tout JRPGs as having 100+ hours of game time, but most of that is just watching animations that you have almost zero say in.
The tone, the dialogue, art style, millennial appeal, and overall difficulty of, a Marvel movie.
>classic RE
>ICO and SotC
>other fixed games with camera angles like "obscure"
actual movie games have been perfected a long time ago.
i'm so glad mikami faced tech limitations of "no one can make FPS game in japan at the time" so he was forced to look into the stylish, experimental camera angles of the french new wave era of film when making RE1. all those angles you see in the game were inspired by the camera angles (which were fresh and experiemental back then) of the french new wave era.
in general, though, the horror genre really benefits from those angles.
all you have to do for a quick lesson in this is look up screenshots -- or just watch -- george romero's night of the dead. i bet even big-time horror fans don't know this; i think they know the idea of it, but they can't explain it
those camera angles literally makes it look like you are playing a movie because NO FRICKING MOVIE TAKES PLACE IN 1ST PERSON OR 3RD PERSON OVER-THE-SHOULDER. HOW COULD YOU BE SO FRICKING STUPID??
sorry, i'm calm now.
those camera angles can
>lead the character where he is supposed to go
>expose hidden items and enemies
>tell bits of the story and lore through its enviroment alone
RE2's police station really took a lot from film noir as well; which was around the same time as french new wave
A game where rather than simply letting dissonance between story and gameplay lie, or writing the story in such a way that it's compatible with all ways players are realistically going to play, the developers design the game to aggressively course-correct the gameplay portions to be in line with the story they want to tell. This is often paired with writing that drips with cynicism towards both the player and video games as a hobby.
But, to an extent, it's a spectrum. Strong indicators include:
>when things fundamental to the gameplay are compromised and rendered clunky to better serve the cosmetic purpose they're meant to, e.g. slow turning animations when walking
>when story beats that could be delivered entirely via cutscene are instead delivered through barely interactive and low-stakes segments of pseudo-gameplay, e.g. your standard walk and talk
>when playstyle options that are clearly fully possible as far as code and assets are arbitrarily limited by game design that forces you through a single option e.g. status builds in most games with "RPG elements"
>when the writing frequently takes a step back from its own characters and setting, simplifying them to deliver moral lessons, e.g. random "pollution bad" in the middle of a pristine high fantasy world because one guy invented the steam engine early
Note that a game can have a ton of cutscenes without necessarily being a movie so long as 1.) it's not some obscene amount of the game, like 35% or above, and 2.) the gameplay in between those cutscenes is relatively consistent and doesn't fall prey to any of the above indicators.
>the word moviegame had a peak of mentions when a moviegame released
w-woah...
less talky
more fixed camera angles
more telling of story and lore through enviroment simultaneously as you play
it's just that simple
Video game that appears to have more technical emphasis and creativity on the cutscenes than gameplay.
from reading your post, you want this
>press right
>press left
>time how long it takes for charcter to start moving left after you have pressed the button
>if it takes more than 1 ms it's a movie game
WOOOOOOOOOOW that was hard
>muh high skill PC gayms
cutscene to gameplay ratio
if it has more cutscenes than gameplay its a movie game cause you are expending more time watching stuff than playing it
and slowly walking sections you cannot skip and are forced to listen to boring NPCs talking dont count
>Gone Home is 100% gameplay
>slowly walking sections you cannot skip and are forced to listen to boring NPCs talking dont count
But that's the thing: Gone Home has no mandatory NPCs. You can infact skip the whole game by walking to the attic. That's why ratios are misleading.
everytime you pick something you you have to hear the toughts of the main character
You don't have to pick up anything.
dont you have to pick up a key to open the attic
This is all you have to do to beat the game.
It employs that slimy movie game tactic where there is dialogue, but you're still in control of the character. So technically it doesn't count as a cutscene, but it's still movieshit.
fair enough
Even gone home is more of a game than TLOU then
you made your point
My point was that both were shit for different reasons, primarily that cutscenes aren't the primary culprit for movieshit syndrome.
A video game is one that's fun whether you have full knowledge of it or not. It's about the journey, and the challenge in overcoming that journey. If the only "challenge" is walking down some hallways, then no amount of blind playthroughs will save it.
>A video game is one that's fun whether you have full knowledge of it or not.
> It's about the journey, and the challenge in overcoming that journey
What about the example I gave with a puzzle game then? It can be plenty challenging the first time you play through the game, but your 2nd playthrough will be significantly easier because you know the answers to the puzzles already.
If it's like Baba is You, then the fun is then in trying to find ways to break the puzzles.
Is there really a meaningful difference between the two? At the end of the day I'd rather play bing bing wahoo then either one.
>Is there really a meaningful difference between the two?
It's mostly just "hold forward to win" vs "watch this to win". Either way you're not really doing much yourself.
gone home is a walking simulator not a movie shit game
they are two diferent things
You can't say a game is completely different genre if the player already has full knowledge of the game and that causes them to play it differently. That'd be like saying a puzzle game isn't a puzzle game anymore if you know all the answers already, since there is no longer any puzzle solving since you have the answers already.
You have to judge the game based on something at least resembling what a blind playthrough would involve, as that's what the developer has designed the game around.
If cutscenes are interrupted by gameplay, it's a moviegame.
If the presentation is state of the art, but the gameplay is as complex as Pacman, it's a movie game.
If it was made by Sony, it's a movie game.
>If it was made by Sony, it's a movie game.
You're not supposed to say that part. Phil isn't sending his best.
a game that seeks to emulate hollywood movies in its style, themes, presentation, writing, music etc
A "movie game" is a game that spends more time in cinematics than in gameplay and the gameplay unrewarding making the cinematics the only remarkable thing about the game.
It's not necessarily the lengthy cutscenes that make something a movie game. Rather, it's that the gameplay employs a lot of "comfort" features, that assist the player through the game. So that nobody gets filtered by the gameplay.
This is stuff like:
-heavy handed aim assist.
-Health rejuvenation.
-Vague health bars in general. Who can really say how much you got shot, based on the redness of the screen? If you had clear numbers, then you would be able to clearly see how forgiving the game is.
-Intrusive tutorials
-Snap-to platforming. That's when you just hold the thumbstick in the general direction you want to move, and press the interact button, and the game automatically jumps to the next platform or ledge.
-Crafting. It's just "give me resource now" ability. Rather than contemplating what resources you might need *before* you go out on a journey.
-Quick time events.
There's probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. But this is just what came to mind now. Basically, the game ends up playing itself, and you don't realize it, because they tricked you into making you think you were doing all the things. It's a more passive experience.
Any game that has unionized live action actors doing motion caption/performance caption work.
You put down your controller and watch or walk slowly down the corridor all the while some whiny b***h drolls on and on and on.
A game wherein more time is spent reading or watching cutscenes than making gameplay inputs, and/or a game in which the gameplay inputs do not matter.
A game were cutscenes have some of the coolest action in the game rather than it being shown through gameplay.
no wonder XKEK is winning now snoy homosexuals just watch movies lmao
A game where narrative and presentation are more important than gameplay.
Hate games with a lot of cut-scenes. Dev is trying to rip me off.
MGS4
Genuinely good gameplay but it doesn't give you nearly enough time to ACTUALLY FRICKING PLAY IT with how every 10 mins you're interrupted by a codec call or a cutscene.
>Define "movie game" without sounding mad.
a game with minimal input from the player and can be finished from start to end by anyone
Do I get a cookie?
in other words, game journalist mode
>mfw watching the 9 minute intro of king's quest 4 (1988)
a movie game has a high cutscene to gameplay ratio.
Upon further deliberation I have decided that it was in fact "kino"
Tears of the Kingdom makes you do the same thing, except you have to fiddle around with zonai parts for 30 minutes.
>Tears of the Kingdom makes you do the same thing
No it fricking doesn't.
Try playing the game before defending it.
Why didn't this person just autobuild a motorcycle?
>Not using ultra hand
>Not making a vehicle to carry it
You played the game like a moron so you got the moron experience.
I just posted a clear image of Link carrying the stone. But that's just one situation. Using ultrahand helps, sure. But Link is still moving at walking pace with Ultra hand. So same as Kratos moving at walking pace while carrying his rock.
Building a vehicle isn't really worth it short distances. But in the case of the Lost Wood, Link has to travel over uneven terrain, around closely placed trees, through mud traps, and through enemies. So is it really worth pulling out a vehicle, just to slowly move through the twist and turns, so as to avoid bumping into everything? Bing vulnerable to enemy attacks, and ultimately having to stop when you come across the mud?
It's not worth it.
But there there are other green stone missions set in the sky. So you have to figure out how to maneuver around on something other than a land vehicle. This one stone was in the side of the flying island, and you had to fiddle around with zonai parts to move the large hover stones around. It was a giant pain.
>So same as Kratos moving at walking pace while carrying his rock.
No it's not. Because in Onions of War you have no other option. In TOTK not only is that quest optional, you have several different ways to go about it. You chose the worst option, to carry it on Link's shoulders, and then try to say it's the same as Onions of War.
>Building a vehicle isn't really worth it in short distances
>Link has to travel over uneven terrain, through mud traps, and through enemies
You just gave a very good reason why you would want to build a vehicle to circumvent the bullshit on the ground. Those obstacles are still more than the nothing that was in
>In TOTK not only is that quest optional
The ability to skip content, is never an excuse for how badly its designed.
>You chose the worst option, to carry it on Link's shoulders
Again, it's just a picture. I got it off of google. Personally, I used ultrahand to carry those things.
>You just gave a very good reason why you would want to build a vehicle to circumvent the bullshit on the ground
I just gave you like 4 reasons why a vehicle is not optimal in that level. It's not worth building a vehicle, when you have to stop and go every second, and manuver around tight obstacles. Imagine all the reversing you have to do to get around shit. All the white, enemies are shooting you with bows, or just coming up to you ans slashing you. And you're just jittering on the control stick like an idiot, trying to get around some trees.
That was my initial complaint. That ToTK does the same thing, except they make you fiddle with zonai parts for 30 minutes to get the job done.
>That was my initial complaint. That ToTK does the same thing, except they make you fiddle with zonai parts for 30 minutes to get the job done.
I disagree
Come on man. As someone who criticizes TOTK, you could've easily used the LITERAL WALKING SEGMENT in the tutorial and intro, one that's unskippable and is just listening to Zelda blabber on.
Why would I use a tutorial to criticize the game? That's dumb. I mean, I get the tutorial is long. But it has to teach new players how to play. And it has to teach experienced players the new mechanics.
Because TOTK is about freedom and non-linearity, so you'd think they'd add an option to skip the tutorial and intro, especially for people who've already played the game.
And have a million arrogant now-it-alls complain about the game, because they don't know how to properly interact with Zonai parts? Nah. That's a bad idea.
>player freedom is bad because... someone else might accidentally skip the tutorial
Did you quote the wrong post? I didn't say those things.
Why do you consider it a minor nitpick? Shouldn't any change, regardless of size, be considered good if it makes for a better game? And isn't the reason why people hate movieshit is because it treats the player like a baby and barely gives them agency? Why not give them some agency and let them skip the tutorial?
>When you're making games for literally a billion people then yes.
And if you those people need the tutorial, they can go through it normally. Putting a "skip tutorial" button into the game isn't going to kill anyone.
>And if you those people need the tutorial, they can go through it normally
Many will choose not to. Yes they're moronic, no it is not Nintendo's fault they have to appeal to these people.
In that case, why not just give everyone god mode and noclip, so the poor casuals will never suffer a penalty for playing the game wrong?
We're literally on the way to that, haven't the last six marios or something (bar odyssey) have some manner of "frick you just let me past" mode if you died too much? It sucks that Nintendo is going down that path but frick man, at least they're hanging on to an extent.
>Why do you consider it a minor nitpick? Shouldn't any change, regardless of size, be considered good if it makes for a better game? And isn't the reason why people hate movieshit is because it treats the player like a baby and barely gives them agency? Why not give them some agency and let them skip the tutorial?
This tactic is called gish galloping which is a dishonest debate tactic.
I'll shorten it for you. If it's a minor nitpick, then it won't ruin the game if you changed it.
It's a minor nitpick and doesn't and doesn't improve anything if changed.
>want to get right into the game
>don't like tutorials
>add a "skip tutorial" button
>can now get right to the game
>THIS IS A BAD THING, YOU'RE LITERALLY RUINING VIDEO GAMES IF YOU WANT THIS
>>don't like tutorials
zoom zoom
>don't like tutorials
My post didn't say those things.
When you're making games for literally a billion people then yes.
>b-but nintendo shouldve operated in a fashion completely counterintuitive to their actual goals
Dinging a game for the circumstances it's made under is like dinging a man's looks because he's homeless; he might theoretically be able to help the latter situation, but telling him he's handling the former situation wrong without acknowledging the latter is just plain silly
Look, I'm all for player freedom. But not when half of the game requires the player to interact with complex mechanics. In that case, you have to teach them. I'm not even saying they will *accidentally* skip the tutorial. I'm saying that they'll purposely skip it, because in their arrogance, they think they know what they're doing.
And then when they struggle to get anything done, because they don't intuitively understand how Zonai parts work, they're cry and blame the game for their own moronation.
Look anon, if they're dumb enough to skip the tutorial and then not know how things work, then they won't know how things work even if they do the tutorial, as they won't have the brainpower to complete it. You're operating on the premise that you can fix a fatal flaw in casuals, IE their inability to learn. Or do we need a refresher on how these morons will struggle even with a mandatory tutorial?
Webm for clarity. Being mandatory didn't help this guy learn it, and he still took points off from the game.
>then they won't know how things work even if they do the tutorial
Well that's just plain false. If tutorials didn't succeed in teaching people to play the game, then nobody would make tutorials.
>You're operating on the premise that you can fix a fatal flaw in casuals
You're operating under the logical fallacy that everyone who gets lost in a game is a casual. I've personally witnessed many people who I would consider not-casual, make some really dumb mistakes, because they were too arrogant to read how things are done. Some games are too complex to just let the player go. It's like trying to teach the player the player how to play chess without telling him how the pieces move first.
>Well that's just plain false. If tutorials didn't succeed in teaching people to play the game, then nobody would make tutorials.
Stupid people beat tutorials all the time, then complain because the game expands out and does things not covered in the tutorial. You're never gonna appease them, so why even try?
>I've personally witnessed many people who I would consider not-casual, make some really dumb mistakes, because they were too arrogant to read how things are done'
That's their choice to not read. Don't punish me for their actions.
>Stupid people beat tutorials all the time, then complain because the game expands out and does things not covered in the tutorial. You're never gonna appease them, so why even try?
I've seen not-casual gamers do that too. You don't get what I'm saying. There is a mindset that is not exclusive to casual or not-casual. You can't appease everybody. But you can reduce complaining a great deal, but forcing tutorials.
Again, when literally half of your entire game relies on understanding complex mechanics, then you have to teach it to them. Can you learn the intricacies of baseball without someone to explain the rules? No. Why 3 outs? It's an arbitrary number. Why is catching a ball an out? It's an arbitrary action. What's a strike zone? You can't know these things without being explicitly told. Or otherwise, watching other people play long enough to learn the rules.
Your gay idea of freedom, comes at the cost of common fricking sense.
>There is a mindset that is not exclusive to casual or not-casual. You can't appease everybody. But you can reduce complaining a great deal, but forcing tutorials.
And how does that benefit me, personally? I couldn't care less that these people don't know how to play vidya and need instructions spoonfed for them. For all I care, they can all take a barefoot jog over a field of lego bricks. Why should my experience be neutered for their sake?
>Again, when literally half of your entire game relies on understanding complex mechanics, then you have to teach it to them.
Then put it in the manual. This is a Nintendo game, that still embraces physical releases, so it should be trivial for them. If someone is so stupid that they are not even willing to read the manual, then my kind suggestion to them would be this: stop playing vidya and jump off the nearest cliff, you oxygen thief.
These mouth breathers are exactly why movieshit is so prevalent.
>Why should my experience be neutered for their sake?
Your experience wasn't neutered.
>Then put it in the manual
Or in the game. It doesn't really matter.
>your experience wasn't neutered
I'm forced through a boring tutorial for a game I've already played. Objectively you're keeping me from the actually fun gameplay.
>how would your experience be improved by skipping the tutorial?
Trial and error teaches me how to play naturally. The time I spend is my own time, looking around and figuring out what to do, where I can go, where I can't go, etc. I am allowed to make that choice, not the game, so the time is not wasted in the slightest. And if it's a good game, it teaches you naturally via the gameplay, instead of needing a tutorial shoved down your throat.
>Imagine trying to learn how to play baseball from a manual. Rather than actually being in a game and being coached.
I refuse to play baseball at all if I'm not allowed a choice between them. It's not worth being babied and restricted.
>I'm forced through a boring tutorial for a game I've already played. Objectively you're keeping me from the actually fun gameplay.
Not really. It's a nitpick at best.
Tell me, do you think people are ruining the artist's vision if they romhack games to remove the tutorial and intro entirely? Should we throw people in jail for adding a "skip cutscene/tutorial" button into games that didn't have them previously?
would you actually play the games if they had skip options or would you still find something else to whine about
I skip every tutorial I can, even in brand new games. Not my fault filthy casuals can't learn how to play.
That's cool
It wouldn't make the game that much worse or better. It's a minor nitpick.
I mean, it depends. It's really a case by case thing. But in the case of TotK, you'll end up missing important parts of the story if you skipped the beginning. So you're really shooting yourself in the foot.
I don't really care what you hack or mod. But if you're going to mod out the tutorial on your first playthrough, then you forfeit the right to critique the game.
>you'll end up missing important parts of the story
name exactly 1 video game you like BECAUSE of the story
>liking video games for the story
surely you have at least one personal exception here
I like video games for their lack of story. Like Minecraft or Tetris or Pacman. The story is the friends we made along the way.
>Tetris or Pacman
>no story
>implying I even care enough to delve into the "lore" of stacking blocks, or a circle eating dots
I am well-versed on Pac-Man history. Do not tempt me to infodump on you, plebeian.
>story and cutscenes only matter when I say they matter
I even care enough to delve into the "lore" of stacking blocks, or a circle eating dots
Pac-Man World
Pac-Man World 2
Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness
Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures
Pac 'n Roll DS
Puyo Puyo Tetris
Puyo Puyo Tetris 2
Tetris
Any other Zelda game for starters
BotW and TotK have awful stories man, and the way they're told is assbackwards
>I'm forced through a boring tutorial for a game I've already played.
The game isn't meant to be replayed. It's not an arcade game.
>Trial and error teaches me how to play naturally. The time I spend is my own time, looking around and figuring out what to do, where I can go, where I can't go, etc. I am allowed to make that choice, not the game, so the time is not wasted in the slightest.
These are all platitudes. They're principles that you like to say because it makes you feel good. But in practical application, they don't always work out. Trial an error is good in many cases. But it's not always good. Like when it comes to learning controls. The controls shouldn't be the challenge of the game. Figuring out what to do on your own is fine. Except how can you make informed decisions without knowing your options? "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Did you solve a puzzle the way you did because you had agency? Or did you solve it the way you did, because you skipped the tutorial for a key mechanic, and had to come up with some borderline exploit to subvert the puzzle?
>I refuse to play baseball at all if I'm not allowed a choice between them.
Can you imagine? "Let me play! No, I don't know any of the rules, and I DON'T WANT YOU TO TELL ME. Just let me figure it out. What do you mean it's not my turn to bat? How was I supposed to know that? Your game isn't very good at teaching via gameplay."
>But in practical application, they don't always work out. Trial an error is good in many cases. But it's not always good. Like when it comes to learning controls.
Says you. Mechwarrior and Armored Core and Chromehounds are ten times as fun when you're just mashing buttons and figuring out which button does what, and I'd say those games are mechanically more complex than most AAA movies, or even genuinely good games.
>Except how can you make informed decisions without knowing your options?
Figure out your options, casual. Stop asking to be spoonfed.
>"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".
When you come across something that can't be hammered in, then it dawns on you to try something else. If everything is functionally a nail, then that;s the game's fault.
>Did you solve a puzzle the way you did because you had agency? Or did you solve it the way you did, because you skipped the tutorial for a key mechanic, and had to come up with some borderline exploit to subvert the puzzle?
Isn't this the entire selling point of modern Zelda, that you can bypass the entire shrine or dungeon because you made a rocket shield outside the shrine and then just skipped the whole thing? Webm related.
>Can you imagine? "Let me play! No, I don't know any of the rules, and I DON'T WANT YOU TO TELL ME. Just let me figure it out.
Which is why a manual would help, or better yet, just letting me take a bat and a ball and practice in the ballpark. If I'm "playing it wrong" then I have every right to do that. I'll deal with the consequences that result from it, but that'll be my choice. Better to die a free man than live as a slave.
I disagree
>Mechwarrior and Armored Core and Chromehounds
Yeah, but I don't believe *my* platitudes are universally applicable either. You selected multiple games where *the point* is to get accustomed to the controls. So for them, learning controls is the experience. But that's not the case for the majority of other games. And certainly not the case for Zelda.
>Figure out your options, casual. Stop asking to be spoonfed
Learning controls and rules, is not the same as being spoonfed solutions. Just look at your webm. There was no part of the tutorial that told you to do that. The only thing the tutorial told you, was how you can attach objects to your shield.
>When you come across something that can't be hammered in, then it dawns on you to try something else.
And when you don't know the rules or controls, then what will you try?
>or better yet, just letting me take a bat and a ball and practice in the ballpark
That's what the tutorial is.
>Better to die a free man than live as a slave.
A free man is when you have to spend about 2 hours going through a very loose tutorial that has multiple solutions for progress. Bit dramatic.
>Yeah, but I don't believe *my* platitudes are universally applicable either.
*My* platitudes are universally applicable because they're objectively correct. Learning should be a fun experience gained from your own intuition.
>Learning controls and rules, is not the same as being spoonfed solutions.
Learn it on your own time. Stop wasting my time.
>And when you don't know the rules or controls, then what will you try?
Everything. If this was a point and click, you'd poke and touch every single thing in a room just because you can.
>That's what the tutorial is.
Um, no. I'm not having exposition shoved in my face in the park.
>A free man is when you have to spend about 2 hours going through a very loose tutorial that has multiple solutions for progress.
Walking down a hallway with zero agency is "loose"? lol
>If I'm "playing it wrong" then I have every right to do that. I'll deal with the consequences that result from it, but that'll be my choice. Better to die a free man than live as a slave.
You're the type of person, that thinks schools, educational institutions, and so on, should all be dismantled and every kid should just learn by themselves, do you? You were the guy that rebelled constantly against his teachers and own parents, weren't you?
>You're the type of person, that thinks schools, educational institutions, and so on, should all be dismantled
Public schools and colleges, anyway. Those are complete scams. Private schools, even homeschooling, and learning a trade are so much better.
>And how does that benefit me, personally?
Well you are learning the game. Whether you like it or not. The knowledge gained is a benefit to you. Let me ask you this: how would your experience be improved by skipping the tutorial? You get to the surface faster... and then what? You would still have to learn the new mechanics. Except now, you're learning more slowly through trial and error. The collective time it takes for you to learn the mechanics that way, will likely be longer than the tutorial. Now every task you want to complete takes longer than it would be if you just did the tutorial first. And you'll end up relying on old techniques from the previous game as a filler for your lack of knowledge on how the new game works.
>Then put it in the manual
Imagine trying to learn how to play baseball from a manual. Rather than actually being in a game and being coached.
There are no arbitrary actions in a game, is not a sport. The game rules are obvious by the game world itself, I just know that getting smacked by an enemie is not a good thing, you learn the rules of the game world by just interacting with it,
>There are no arbitrary actions in a game
There are
>is not a sport
Sports are games
Bring back manuals
>b-but
No. If you're too lazy to read the manual, then you better figure out all that shit on your own or go play Candy Crush instead
Speaking facts over here.
Minor nitpick
A game that tries it's hardest to look like a movie while still having gameplay and being considered a game. It does so to attract the movie watching masses that needs easy gameplay to get through and still feel like they're interacting with the world.
*its
a game that not only has a big focus on story but also tries to make its gameplay "cinematic" with shit like slow walking dialogue scenes during gameplay and in general the games try to present themselves more like movies almost as if they're ashamed of being video games. this is probably the best definition i can think of because not all games with somewhat of a story focus or long cutscenes are like this.
If you spend more of your playtime watching instead of playing, I would class that as a Movie Game.
i dont like "movie game" being so broad because there are literal movie games like Walking Dead and Until Dawn. idk another term that would satisfy people that just want to shit on games they dont play.
Do you know how Visual Novel is a "book game"? Add cinematic scenes and spoken text instead of fixed portraits and written text and you have a movie game.
There's nothing wrong with movie games in principle, what makes people angry is when an adventure or action game puts more emphasis on the cinematic part than the adventure and action.
Some people think it has to do with excessive cutscenes and or dialog. But this is false. "Movie game" came about as a term in the 7th gen with releases like TLOU, Uncharted, and Bioshock, while cutscene and dialog excessive games existed since basically the beginning. It has to do with how the game plays like a glorified cutscene during actual gameplay segments.
These games almost always have escort characters that exist purely to dump exposition on your and quip while you play. If there aren't sidekicks constantly talking then the MC constantly talks to themselves. And they aren't just hint givers, they tell the story as you "play"
These games are almost entirely 3rd person over the shoulder action games made by western developers. Because if they weren't then how would the devs showcase their face scans as your character gets very angry or sad frequently for shallow reasons.
Gameplay and cutscenes are completely intertwined. You are often forced to just walk slowly down a hall for reasons I can not understand.
Any suspence is forced by cinematics, not gameplay. Your character is always nearly killed during THAT gameplay segment, but survives all on their own, you didn't even have to push any button, maybe a timed button press
These games always have kill scenes where your character spends 10 seconds being le epic badass stabbing the enemy in the chest a dozen time while other enemies stand around and watch.
The end result is everyone walks away having played the same game the same way. There was no other way to progress other than to do exactly what the devs intended you to do to experience the game. Like those slow moving water rides where shit happens around you as you sit still.
Bonus points if the game's intent was to teach a lesson.
>Bonus points if the game's intent was to teach a lesson.
Doom taught me the lesson that killing demons is awesome
A game where over half of the game is watching cutscenes and listening to dialogue
Alternatively, a game that is nothing but story choices and QTEs, although these two definitions often overlap
It's a game that is predominantly focused on a story which is told through cutscenes and long-winded dialogue. The issues with these games is that they tend to neglect the sort of organic storytelling and atmosphere that comes through gameplay. On top of that, video game writing in general is amateurish.
It's bad, do you really need people to spoonfeed you ?
A video game that's have minimal depth in its gameplay, but also long long long stretches of the game trying to talk to you or tell you a story.
Current Naughty Dog is that. A game that rather be a controllable movie than anything with mechanical complexity/interaction.
There's nothing actually wrong with these, but if they're really bad then they're the worst.
People b***h about Kojima, but those cutscenes are skippable and you're right back to pretty damn good gameplay. David Cage games on the other hand have sequences devoid of real gameplay.
A game based on a movie, like Riddick or Enter the Matrix.
Telltale games
Don't nod entertainment games
You know, like visual novels but voice acted and in 3d
Game that's less gameplay and more A-bussy cinematics and writing being the heaviest invested design.
>A-bussy cinematics
wat
Majority cutscenes while the "gameplay" is more basic and bland than a children's point and click edutainment title from the 90's.
So mostly Sony titles.
>people are STILL responding to acgay
All cutscenes should be skippable and the player should not have less understanding of the game by skipping them. Problem with cutscenes is that they are too long, its a videogame, I would rather watch a movie if Im just going to sit staring at the screen doing nothing.
Imo the best cutscene system is the gta one, where the cutscenes are short to give the main point of the plot and also are skippable, but the characters talk with each other while you do the mission so you dont really miss whats going on if you skip it
Is player input meaningful?
If no, then it's a movie game.
“Movie game” is a term of derision aimed at games that use that awful hollywood/netflix tone. It’s an insult. It loses its meaning when misused for games like Doom because you can’t shoot for two minutes twice.
>mediocre hollywood wannabe writers use videogames as a way to force you watch their mediocre movies
If this was a movie I wouldnt watch it, so stick with the gameplay sweetie.
A game that is more focused on spectacle than trying to bring engaging gameplay. Terrible replay value because once you've seen the spectacle, all you're left with is bland mechanics and gameplay.
The type of games that Telltale and Super Massive make. Games that are no more than making decisions while watching things happen. Games where getting to the next scene IS the gameplay and nothing else like you’re watching a movie. People that say Sony games like nu-GoW are “movie games” are just moronic kids that have a hate boner for Sony
>grr FF7 has long attack animations!!
Then play one of the NES ones?
FF1, 2, 3 have short attack animations at worst, like a few seconds.
A game where the story is overwhelmingly the main focus, gameplay is often seen as an afterthought
Alternatively, a game made by failed Hollywood writers desperately trying to cling to relevancy
Game what were feels like a movie or such
A game with a lot of cutscenes, and little variation from the main dialogue and story
Movie games are not inherently bad
no
frick you
a movie game is a shitty "game" that is basically a fricking movie and all you do is walk from point a to point b to point c to point d and each point is a fricking cinematic that is most likely gay and full of homoerotic homosexualry
eat a dick op and drown yourself in a piranha pool motherfricking son of a transvestite b***h
sony
Games I don't need to physically play to say I played them and no one would know the difference.
A game that compromises it's own gameplay to focus on either minimally interactive or totally non-interactive setpieces
Any game where there is a forced walking section, where you can still move, but at a significantly slower pace while characters are talking.
Remember when video games had a simple plot and a noncomplex narrative? I don't want games to be epics; they shouldn't be trying to mimic Holywood. You can thank Cuckman for blighting directors for the next 10 years thinking that narratives take priority over gameplay (and guess what, he's making massive royalties now since the HBO show is a massive success, so he's not going anywhere). People don't want their time wasted, that's the problem now that we're in the 2020s with the stagnation of gameplay and storytelling. The 2010s had an issue with games just having low quality overall. Movie games are the most successful products right now since by forcing the player to watch the plot unfold, they feel like their time isn't wasted, but consequently the core gameplay suffers. People have been movie to the indie scene to fulfill that feeling back in the 1990s and early 2000s, but now indie devs are kinda making themselves look like clowns from all the complaining they make public on social media
I think JRPGs that are mostly story are good, actually.
>Gow.
Reminder to everyone you can play the entire series on rspc3.
And rsp-whateverthefrick they call the ps4 emu in 5-7 years.
Movie games are games that have unskippable cutscenes that span more than 10% of total gameplay length time often on the same or more length of movie duration more than 2 hrs
The entire main focus experience of game is through cut scenes and not through gameplay
There you go