Devs
>let's make a dither pattern here because this system has a very limited color palette and we can't afford doing nice gradients
rf/compositegays
>WOW THIS MEANS THE GAMES WERE MEANT TO BE PLAYED WITH THE MOST DOGSHIT IMAGE QUALITY EVER AS TO BLEND THE DITHER, THIS IS TRUE DEV INTENTION
Yes
There's shaders that fully blend the dithering with minimal quality loss now.
And loses any texture the dithering was intended to provide.
Both of those are true.
It was a limitation but also a way to display more shades of color than was otherwise possible.
Hardwaregays being obnoxious autists doesn't make this point wrong.
No, it isn't.
PC98 games had a ton of dithering but also used proper monitors where you don't get blending from a composite signal.
that looks amazing
>also used proper monitors where you don't get blending from a composite signal
Wrong
Pic related
>Wrong
The frick are you talking about?
PC98 had RGB monitor outputs and didn't have composite.
Plenty of people had shitty monitors and because these are analog cables you can easily convert the VGA out to composite
no you can't easily convert it to composite with just a cable
it requires active electronics
PC-98 didn't have vga out you fricking imbecile
Actchually NEC did produce monitors for PC88 and 98 that had RF and composite. It was pretty common just like with different models for Amiga and C64 monitors.
>Actchually NEC did produce monitors for PC88 and 98 that had RF and composite.
That'd be input, not ouput.
Whatever homosexual same shit different anus
I forgot that the monitors PC98 users used didn't have any scanlines
>Wrong
anon is right. composite was fricking dogshit.
> screencap written by a fricking moron
the level of schizophrenia and compulsive lying on this board is off the charts embarrassing.
No dude, execs refused to use the "superior" blurring of composhit in the arcades, and RGB cables were sold separately to trick idiots into spending more money for an "unintended" picture.
Please ignore all the shots showing developers working on high end CRT monitors, a few dogshit Mega Drive games that take advantage of the atrocious RF and composhit outputs for rainbow banding out the ass PROVE that RGB was evil.
ackshually copper plate etchings were only supposed to be seen by old people with cataracts as to blur the line art into a smoother gradient, little known fact
How do blendgays explain arcade games using dithered patterns while also having super sharp image quality over RGB?
CRTs will have some blending even over RGB. You can still see the dithering but it won't look like your pic. You're not getting perfect convergence on a CRT and the pixels aren't perfectly aligning with the phosphor groups. The answer is "it depends." Sometimes they intended for certain things to happen like using crosshatching to smooth into gradients or get extra colors into the image. But they also weren't going to lose any sleep if a particular display would handle it differently. The palette of Nintendo's Playchoice-10 cabinet is all kinds of fricked up because they just didn't care.
If only there were pictures from the time showing how people saw arcade games. If only... if only....
Why would you use a shitty scan of a low quality image of an arcade when people still having working ones that don't look anything like your picture?
There's still blending because of how CRTs work, especially within the resolutions these games played at.
Your image is scaled incredibly poorly, btw.
because it's not integer scaled. It was only to show the existence of dithered patterns.
Could the Neo Geo or CPS2 do proper transparency? Maybe that's why they used those dithered patterns. It was their best option for the effect they were going for.
>Could the Neo Geo or CPS2 do proper transparency?
Nope, or at least I'm not aware of any games that actually do. CPS3 had some transpancy effects (like just for shadows) IIRC.
Careful though. Arguing that the arcade represents the authentic viewing experience would mean telling everyone they need to throw away their Sony Trinitrons in favor of slotmasks. Very few if any arcade cabinets had aperture grille monitors in them.
Because it's still transparent at 240p on a CRT even if it's RGB
Even arcade games like Metal Slug that were meant to be played in RGB have dithering. Same with western computer games like Amiga games, a lot used dithering and were played on RGB VGA monitors.
The morons that think it was meant to be blended with a shit connection like composite every time it is used art morons.
In extreme circumstances, such as a Shinobi a level with waterfalls everywhere, composite transparency improves the apperance significalntly. Still, incidents like this account for fewer than 10% of the game.
One issue is that people compare it without using any CRT shaders. Overall, while RGB CRT doesn't blend colors, it doesn't look also look particulary bad, unlike LCD RGB.
This could be just me, but after playing on composite for prolonged periods of time, my eyes tire considerably faster than RGB. It feels unplesant.
One advantage of composite is that it feel sovlful in a different way. Still RGB CRT is superior overall.
Given the small quality difference between S-Video and RGB, the availability of RGB in NTSC zones is not a compelling argument.
Yes.
A lot of dithering patterns weren't even made by hand especially for 3d games. It's just a rendering method from the console or by the editing program they're using to crush the color palette.
Positioned dithering is pretty and I use it in a lot of my art. And I like seeing it in games. I don't really care if it's "what they intended", I like what I like.
I don't mind dithering too much on real hardware, but on emulators like Duckstation or the PS1 mister core I see no reason whatsoever not to use the 24-bit colour option. Fair enough if you find that old dithered look nostalgic but...c'mon now. It's clearly an objective upgrade to use the higher colour option.
Dithering helps to texture sprites, especially metals
Recently emulated Silent Hill and used the 24 bit color hack, and while overall the graphics looked more natural, it also made the game look 'flat'. Bilinear filtering helped
So the lesson here is that CRTs vary between themselves, and Knuckles' face looks like a frown on some and a smile on others?
Yeah, pretty much.
There's a wide range of SD CRTs, especially in the 90s. As the decade rolled on they started integrating better and better comb filters which on particularly good TVs could make composite look close to S-Video. But you'd never want to design a game to take that into account because not everyone had those TVs. A lot of games were made to be playable on shitty 80s hand me downs. You would want to target the lowest common denominator so that you didn't get complaints that certain players literally couldn't see what the frick was going on. That's exactly what happened with Dead Rising on the Xbox 360. The text was designed with HD in mind so people on SD CRTs could barely read anything.
Honestly a lot of these composite effects end up disappearing even when using composite on high end 27"-36" CRTs because they're all rocking 3-line comb filters.
>people who have RGB smile
>people who have no RGB angry
art imitates life
>composite presents the intended experience
>rgb presents a happy but imperfect facsimile
>composite give you a vague blurred view of life (accepting the lies and nonesense)
>RGB shows you the truth and makes you happy for finally seeing everything clearly
You know that RGB is usually what is output by the chip right?
Composite is a conversion on the board to output an analogue signal
The only system that absolutely needs composite because of dithering is the PS1 because of the full screen, sometimes dynamic dithering the hardware puts out. It looks horrible and it's incredibly distracting when playing in S-video or RGB or on LCD screens.
there are different types of dithering moron
Conflating composhit with blending is something only a moronic American who has never seen RGB could do.
CRTs naturally blend due to the way the picture is drawn. Even with aperture grills, the best possible type of shadow mask, some fringing and blooming is inevitable.
As someone who likes using both RGB and Composite for different consoles
You’re all shit
we wouldnt have most of this disscusion if mutts would just had adopted scart or some form of easy RGB access since the 80s (with the introduction of both)
Amen. I feel like 50% of this board boils down to people arguing about this. I’m not convinced most people here even play any games and just sit around shoving composite cables up their urethras.
Americans ruin video game discussion wherever they go. Endless shilling for composite, ntsc, nintendo consoles, console first person shooters, all the inferior choices you can think of.
what a terrible take
>console first person shooters
This wasn't a thing in other regions?
Europe was more into PC fps while Americans were cumming their pants with Goldeneye and Halo, both on two systems with marginal presence in the old continent.
Not true at all, PC fps games were a very American thing, we invented them for crying out loud
Not saying you weren't into those but in Europe our only exposure to the genre came mainly through the PC titles. PC gaming as a whole was more prominent in Europe than in the US.
Those games at least did interesting things at the time.
It gets really pathetic when people praise crap like Turok.
It always seemed to me like Goldeneye wasn't a big thing worldwide.
If I remember correctly Halo was praised everywhere for finally solving console FPS problem, but there was still stigma attached to it until 7th gen.
Not claiming Golden Eye wasn’t fun, but the controls are really bad and with so many other options available to PC players at the time it just didn’t seem worth it. It’s one of those games you loved because it was all you had at the time that offered multiplayer fps. I refuse to believe anyone chooses to play this now out of anything other than nostalgia, whereas Doom I can understand entirely.
>controls are bad
>literally the same as modern controls
I wish this meme would die
ah yes, everyone played goldeneye using 2 gamepads
>b-b-b-but movement with the yellow keys and aiming with the stick
it's a reversal of directions contrary to modern accepted scheme, and most people aren't comfortable with it.
What?
You use one gamepad
Solitaire
One hand on DPAD and one hand on analog stick
>>b-b-b-but movement with the yellow keys and aiming with the stick
Always good to see zoomers talk about shit they don't understand. Everyone played left hand D-pad, right hand stick. Sorry you're dumb.
GoldenEye: Source servers have always been empty, and the lead developer self-unalived
Perfect Dark is more fun anyway, with all its wacky weapons on top of having some GoldenEye weapons and maps
Dithering is a tool, and like a lot of tools there's many ways to use it. In some games it's indeed meant to be blended but that's not always true.
Why do people act like every game was intended to be played the same way?