>Did I… just brutally put down a rebellion on my home planet?! The Emperor will never forgive me. I better join my brother’ rebellion against him.
Bravo GW.
>Did I just brutally put down a rebellion on my home planet?!
>Did I… just brutally put down a rebellion on my home planet?! The Emperor will never forgive me. I better join my brother’ rebellion against him.
Bravo GW.
*jobs*
*loses the duel*
*wins the war*
Based Bobby G being literally undefeated as a general while tards like Angron and Mortarion lose battle after battle and war after war.
Actually there's an answer to this. All the Primarchs feared "The Empty Pedestals" of the II and XI Legion. If you fricked up so badly that you were genuinely afraid of the Emperor, and know that all record of two of your brothers has already been removed from history, you might as well join the brothers who are offering you a way to overthrow the Emperor.
That might have worked if they'd actually gone into some detail of who these guys were before, what they did that got them unhistoried.
Agreed.
What's weird is how Dorn is notably sad and lamenting that he didn't have more brothers when he passes by the empty pedestal of II, implying that maybe two at least didn't do anything wrong, and was put down/stricken from history for other reasons.
Or maybe because there wasn't exactly a wealth of well-intentioned, normally behaving primarchs
There was story where Malcador returned Dorn's memories of missing primarchs, he decided it's a good thing they are gone and asked Malcador to remove memories he just got back. This implies that 2nd and 11th did plenty wrong.
According to Fulgrim, II was a hypocritical ass. Which coming from Fulgrim should say something.
Its just kinda fun to theory craft about the two that got unalived in the books. Maybe one of the primarchs was a xeno enthusiast and focused on biology, but got mind whammied into using those abilities for nefarious purposes or their own abilities turned against them?
I agree. I wish we had slightly more to go on besides often contradictory thoughts and vague allusions, but it is fun to theorycraft. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them didn't actually have it coming, it makes some of the chaos primarchs motives make a bit mroe sense.
Speaking as a lorelet, what happened to the marines of the lost primarchs? All of them went the way of their genefather or were they integrated into the other legions?
Because if it is the latter, the geneseed would pose a problem eh?
I believe they were absorbed into the Dark Angels and Ultramarines and their geneseed stocks were destroyed and they just never made replacements for those marines.
That doesn't make sense, the primarchs are damnatio memoriae and the marines doomed to extinction but they just keep them around? That's basically treason waiting to happen, assuming that's not what they did wrong in the first place.
The fault was the Primarchs, not the legions.
They were absorbed into the IF and Smurfs, at the argument and request of Dorn and Guilliman, who convinced the Emperor to allow it along with mindwipes for everybody involved.
Lore is 2nd and 11th are gone. Why? What happened? Who they were? No info, some contradictory speculations. All you know is they existed and now are purged including from record, legion numbers that's all that remain of them.
I think the original idea was for the missing primarchs to be /yourdudes/ fodder and a way to show just how long ago the Horus Heresy was, that nobody has any idea what even happened to #2 and #11.
It involved Necrons and possibly also the Xenocides, is all we know for sure. Also that it could have been worse than the Horus Heresy if it hadn't been stopped.
>The fear of the emperor unhistorying a chapter would be better conveyed if we learned about the history of that chapter
>-You know what would fix the fact that GW ruined Horus Heresy by not leaving it as a vague legend whose details where a mystery?
>-If they explored the details of the 1% they've left untouched
What an idiot
Fricking this. I swear spergs are the curse of humanity.
It's almost like /tg/ has more than one persom
You can't do things by halves.
If you're going to reveal everything, then reveal everything instead of leaving two of the 20+1 primarchs as a mystery.
Those two Primarchs are left unknown so that players can craft their own chapters for both Loyalist and Traitor. Every faction has some sort of out that lets players customize them however they want, that's the Chaos/Space Marine's one. Fricking morons who let their autistic lore obsession (i.e reading wiki articles) ruin the game are the worst. Thankfully that's one thing GW still seems to understand, but for how much longer?
>Those two Primarchs are left unknown so that players can craft their own chapters for both Loyalist and Traitor.
You can already do that without needing to use either the 2nd or 11th legions for it.
This is nothing but cope.
Both 2nd and 11th primarchs and their "mystery" is the epitome of useless in 40k.
Nothing of actual value would be lost if GW revealed them, because there is nothing to them anyway.
I can agree anon but at this point they've written so much vague stuff regarding them already that it is kinda worse to leave it half solved rather than a full mystery it used to be
they have done in the HH books, in a way that was surprisingly sensitive and well done
>in Fulgrim's book (before the lost primarchs were purged), II is briefly referred to as making a bet with fulgrim over who can take a world with the fewest marines. it's implied II won the bet but in a way that pissed everyone off
>XI is influential in the Rangdan Xenocide
>in one of Lion's books (or maybe Russ) XI is revealed to be the most recently discovered primarch, but the narrator hasn't met him yet.
>lion and XI were discovered around the same time, as lion is briefly mistaken for XI
>it's implied that whatever the lost primarchs did, II was the instigator and XI was brought down with him
>II had an interest in unspecified forbidden activities
>II led an expedition to Ymga, which is known to have an unknown object called the Ymga Monolith. these forbidden activities can be assumed to be xenos (necron) tech, but there's really no evidence beyond the word monolith being associated with Ymga
>after the purge, the II and XI legions disappeared. they may have been folded into the UM and potentially also the IF
>malcador's throne has skulls on it labelled II and XI (pic rel)
>all the primarchs memories were wiped after the purge, malcador later reveals to Dorn (after being confronted by him) that it was Dorn's own idea to wipe their memories
>after this Dorn gets in a screaming match with Sigismund (who would later found the BT chapter) and explicitly tells Siggy that he is not Dorn's son
all this was drip fed over about 20 books. the identity of the lost primarchs is still unknown, but it's clear that their legions survived so whatever happened was specifically the fault of the primarchs alone. the Rangdan Xenocide seems to be the definitive point at which the purge happened, possibly immediately after. the Rangdan were only stopped with ancient weaponry from the I legion, but maybe II and XI had something to do with it as well using whatever they found at Ymga.
>and explicitly tells Siggy that he is not Dorn's son
Wasn't it because Siggy believed a fortune teller's words instead of using logic?
That disappointed Dorn a lot.
>II had and interest in Forbidden activities
If I was writing it, I would have it that II became a follower of the Church of the Stone and the monolith he found was a crucifix or something. Would be funny.
Ok, that would be extremely hilarious
The amount of sat from the Emperor if that were true would justify it all
>who these guys were before
The missing primarchs were women. They were sent on a secret missions. One of them was sent beyond our Solar System to find out clues about what is behind the Tyranids (Yes, Emperor knew about them) and the other one along with her whole legion is sleeping in the void between galaxies as a last ditch effort to preserve humankind.
MISSING PRIMARCHS ARE WOMEN.
What was his problem?
Spite and bitterness. Despite what it might look like, he didn't WANT to build wonders or whatever, he wanted to b***h and moan about not being allowed to build wonders.
Like a solid half of the Primarchs took time to play around with the conquered territories and no one complained, Perturabo absolutely could have built as much as he wanted. He just didn't WANT to. He didn't want to stop being sent on horrible meatgrinder sieges, he made the sieges into meatgrinders himself, wasting time and the lives of his men out of pure spite so he could complain about not having time for doing things and seethe doing all the shitty deadly missions.
Perturabo's problem was himself. He wasn't tossed in Toxicsmog III and forced to work in the pushing grannies down stairs factory at the tender age of 2, he wasn't a slave given a carpenter lobotomy, and he wasn't sent to Gotham City like his brothers. He was just a MASSIVE c**t because he wanted to be one.
It's also why he hated Dorn. Because Dorn's mere existence was proof that the only problems Perty faced were the ones he inflicted on himself.
Also because Dorn reminded him of his adopted brother, who bested him in a competition, imagine, a normal human besting Perturabo.
He’s just like me fr fr
Wtf, I didn't come here for a therapy session
Guess you could say he was a little Perturbed
Wonder how perturbed he might be now after selling his ass to chaos
Everyone keeps saying this, but no one seems to remember that the emperor sent Pert on campaigns magnitudes more brutal than his brothers. Yeah sure Bobby, dorn, and lorgar got to build their sand castles, but they were doing fighting the kiddy pool while Pert and the iron warriors were fighting the hruud. Like do you seriously think the word bearers would of dunked on the blueberries so hard if they actually experienced brutal campaigns?
I don't remember Lion blaming the Emperor for his losses at Rangdan. I also don't remember Lorgar or Guilliman sending his troops into the meangrinder to feed their delusions of victimhood.
>I don't remember Lion blaming the Emperor for his losses at Rangdan.
Lion wasn't a civil engineer at heart who wanted to build instead of fight wars.
>omg a loss happened literally anywhere else this means IW didn't get shit jobs
Cope.
>I also don't remember Lorgar or Guilliman sending his troops into the meangrinder to feed their delusions of victimhood.
Then they're just like Perturabo, who never did that either.
Perturabo HATED when IW used meatgrinder tactics. It was why he decimated them originally. The marines were just that stubborn and that was the reputation they developed, so they got sent on those kinds of missions, which Perturabo resented.
So instead of actually unfricking his legion and making them not use meatgrinder tactics so they could be better than or at least equal to the Imperial Fists, Perturabo decided to seethe about it and let his legion continue to be the World Eaters equivalent of siege warfare and when they weren't dying by the thousands for an inch get broken up and left piecemeal across the galaxy as garrison troops.
Yes. That makes Pert look so much better!
Spoilers: it fricking doesn't.
>It was why he decimated them originally
Lol lorelet and IW cope.
He decimated his legion for failing at conquest not for meatgrinders. His main strategy was meatgrinders, to a point where 70% casaulty rates were standard. Once he took command of legion he reshaped it to his vision and it was pure meatgrinder where marines were considered resource same as ammunition. His legion pioneered rapid induction process to make marine in less than a year, because of losses they suffered. Other primarchs like Russ or Sanguinius fixed their legions after taking command, BA were absolute monsters, feasting on dead, recruiting mutants, no one respected IXth, then Sanguinius fixed his sons and turned them in one of most noble legions. What did Pert do? Nothing more attrition warfare.
Pert was just homosexual with martyr complex who always blamed his own faults on others.
Lion and Russ were put in way worse warzones than Perturabo, they didn't complain like b***hes they just did their job, multiple wars fought by Lion and DA were even redacted from record.
>omg a loss happened literally anywhere else this means IW didn't get shit jobs
Everyone got shit jobs, so did IW, except Pert made things worse for his legion on purpose, much like Angron culling his legion whenever it took too long to conquer a world.
>Resents being stuck with constant horrible meat-grinder campaigns
>Chooses to quietly cope and seethe rather than altering his legion's approach to warfare
"But da Iron Warrior were two stubborn too lissen!" also kind of makes Pert look like an ineffectual leader.
Regardless of the fricked up situations he was in including being cursed by the eye of terror he like Curze choose the worst possible way to deal with their issues. You could complain all you want about having your pants set on fire but if you cut your fricking legs off to fix it what do you want from people man?
Dorn was given the job of dismantling the greatest architectural treasure ever conceived by mankind and turning it into a fortress in preparation for an endless siege.
Perturabo constantly complained that his life was endless sieges and wanted to build incredible architectural treasures.
Yet he complained that he didn't get Dorn's job.
Perturabo would never be happy, Perturabo doesn't know HOW to be happy.
>being passed over for the role of the Defender of Terra isn't a disappointment because I phrased it to sound bad.
Being one of the most reliable generals of the crusade should also have been an honor but he didn't like that either. He could have bragged to every other primarch about how he was called in when there was a nut to tough for their gay little legions to crack and would have been right, but no, you chose to represent those victories as bad thing just like Perturabo.
>He could have bragged to every other primarch about how he was called in when there was a nut to tough for their gay little legions to crack and would have been right
That is part of IW culture, the bitterness comes for being utterly taken for granted for it.
>so what you fought the most punishing battles? You want a medal or something?
Yeah that's what they're for.
Dorn wasn't recalled to Terra to get medals, he was recalled to do a job that would keep him away from the glories of the crusade.
>Defender of Terra
>kept away from glory
You can keep saying it, doesn't make it true.
>MAYBE defend Terra some day
>DEFINITELY reconnect all the lost human civilisations while taking out the xeno trash today
It's obvious where the glory was.
>It's obvious where the glory was.
>except it turned out the exact opposite
What did he mean by this?
Am I to think that he resented being passed over for fortifying Terra *for no reason* and the fact that it was in fact the most glorious position is a complete coincidence?
Keep in mind this is an autistic engineer who hates war. After ascending he literally sits around and designs daemon engines.
This entire time it's like you've been talking about a different character.
It turned out to be the opposite partly because of Perturabo himself. If he'd been loyal it likely would have tipped the balance in favor of the loyalists and Dorn would be sitting on Terra twiddling his thumbs like an idiot waiting for a siege that would never come.
And if according to you the posting on Terra was guaranteed to result in a giant bloody battle of attrition then why would he want it so much if he "hates war"? The things you say are contradictory just like Perty himself. "He hates war which is why he wanted to be part of an even bigger war." Lunacy.
>the posting on Terra was guaranteed to result in a giant bloody battle of attrition
It's organizing the defenses of the capital of the Imperium. He's recognized as the best at the job while not being sent on suicide missions. This isn't complicated.
IW fanboys are exhausting. The books couldn't make it any more clear what a prissy b***h he was. I mean frick, when he was finally badgered into building one of his engineering marvels (which he could have done at any time) he then got angry when Fulgrim got shot in it and decided to tear it down and never build anything fancy again. Fulgrim didn't even die, and he didn't like Fulgrim anyway. He was literally looking for an excuse to be upset. Magnus asked him to make a fancy device so he made it and then smashed it because reasons. The dude just WANTS to be upset. You're right, his character is not complex, which is why it's so bizarre that you've completely misunderstood it.
IW are specialists in attrition warfare, IW fans relate to their legion, theyir main tactics for winning argument is attrition, they will agrue you with bullshit and cope untill you have enough an leave, no matter how stupid it make them look.
Just as Perturabo intended.
If defending planets is so shit why did lil b***h boi Pert complain about his legion getting put on garrison duty?
Peet just wanted to be told he was a good boy
Blood Angels were essentially suicide troops thrown into meatgrinders that would've made even Iron Warriors whistle, yet I didn't see Sanguinius being a salty c**t about it.
Only Pertys supreme brain could halt the hrud.
Everyone was dealing with some kind of bullshit, perturabo just took his personally and showcased how much of a fricking clown he was compared to his brothers. He nearly broke his own legion and himself, along with all the auxilliaries, fighting a war in the stupidest way possible, and in the end they didn't even kill the Hrud off they just left. NO wonder his own men called him a b***h tohis face and they were fricking right.
Strangely your take fits into a head canon hypothetical I've been working on. I think perturabo inherited the emperor's dislike of religion and the supernatural in favour of reasoning and understanding along with his intellect and scientific mind. But like all primarchs this was cranked to 11.
When you go hard in in pure logic though you sort of miss out on developing wider understanding about all the existential shit that life in general involves; as ultimately life is largely a series of illogical events and actions. This is why he was such a prick to everyone - because ultimately at the end of the day he couldn't understand them beyond things that could be burned tomorrow - so what value was there in even bothering to think about them or get to know them. Then when the heresy hit, it wasn't some deep seated regret about being a tortured artist; but rather the conclusion being "well everything dies anyway so it doesn't actually matter who i fight for" - so he ended up on Horus' side purely because that's what the coin flip landed on. All the art shit is red herrings - artists are known for obsessing about topics and in the case of Pert it was davinci-esque inventions and old earth lore.
So basically the only reason the Pert didn't turn out like Big Bobby G and build IMPERIUM SECUNDUS+, BUT WITH BLACK JACK AND EROMENOS! is because Pert had a martyr complex and lacked the fortitude to unfrick himself?
Pert, Horus, and Magnus just seem like traitors who absolutely just played themselves. Angron got fricked with the nails as a baby, Curze was certifiably insane, Mortarion grew up in a shithole planet that nearly killed him and turned him into a bitter c**t, Fulgrim got corrupted by the sword, Lorgar got corrupted by priests diddling him since birth, and Alpharius keikaku'd himself.
Perty is a great filter because triple digit IQs can see that he took an unfair situation and made it worse due to a deeply flawed personality, while the double digits are stuck on
>metal autist good? or metal autist bad?
triple digit iqs simply don't read BL
Certainly not modern slop.
Motherfrickers made Dorn not defend terra, redeemed-unredeemed-reredeemed Whorus what a twist, doubled down on demon Fulgrim instead of keeping the implication original was stuck or stasis-then-traded to Trazyn and ended the heresy on housewife tarot reading and perpetuals doing clown car performance instead of at least Yugioh and chaos dicky.
>doubled down on demon Fulgrim instead of keeping the implication original was stuck or stasis-then-traded to Trazyn and ended the heresy
Anon, Fulgrim was always Daemon Prince of Slaanesh and even after BL made him possessed, he was freed at same time Trazyn was introduced to Necrons. Because he had to became Daemon primarch, kill Guilliman and stuff. Trazyn having clone Fulgrim is modern BL slop.
Also Whorus was redeemed by Emperor in original story, still was killed by Emperor.
Except in either the old Deathwatch or Inquisition book, its noted the daemon doesnt behave as the original Fuglrim would. Then with trollzyn came the implication of "oh, maybe fulgrim got cut in two, warp bit and physical bit, like the presence of the snake wapfrickers and space elves on their original homeworlds", then came pimpcane with the clones. As much as it is modern-tie in story, it builds on a old setup that for book nerds is also a TPoDG tie in. Then "nope it was a clone, demon managed to be defeated by original fulgrim spirit and he just became evil because BDSM".
Also no, horus got soul yeeted without redemption. The redeemed version is the post terminator replacing OP retcon (neither are "the original", but in the original it was just emperor stomping horus in a barracks or bunker or something as a throwaway line back when genestealers were unrelated to nids and nids didnt yet copy tyranids for the looks thus were just turkey people, hug bugs and xenomorph+ork miscast figures).
That's gay.
No it's not and you are making this shit up.
>implication original was stuck or stasis-then-traded to Trazyn
Fulgrim was a demon long before the necrons were retconned to have personalities.
Tell me more about the chaos dicky.
aren't triple digit IQ's the norm in most of the world?
>Dorn's mere existence was proof that the only problems Perty faced were the ones he inflicted on himself.
reading this suddenly makes me wonder if I do the same, though I highly doubt it since stoicism has been my cope for not having a gf and getting over being a manlet
>just keep working out and having interesting hobbies like speaking different languages and dancing and plastic hobbying
I don't know how much more I can take before I start shoving tubes in my head and drinking peach nectar
50% are double digit by definition, measured by western standards.
Considering that the most populated parts of the world are shitholes, the truth is actually much worse. Some countries barely average in the low 80s.
Dude, some places hardly manage to crack 70.
We live in a shitty world.
I mean, his circumstances weren't even THAT bad. He had people who loved him, and was basically handed out his planet.
Yeah, sure, his parent exploited him economically. I've had friends who were exploited economically by their parents, at most they got a drug problem. You know what they didn't do? Snap their sister's neck on a temper tantrum.
>I've had friends who were exploited economically by their parents, at most they got a drug problem. You know what they didn't do? Snap their sister's neck on a temper tantrum.
The two events were unrelated, and I don't think anyone is saying Perturabo is a good person.
Well their sister didn't try to turn his neighborhood against him, attack him when he came back to see what was happening and act like asmug can't when committing treason and insulting him to his face. You c**ts love to take shit out of context of forget how brutal rebellion was treated inthe IoM. Had Pert not intervened the NL would have been sent to reeducate the planet.
His world rebelled because Perturabo pushed it to its limits. She didn't "turn his neighborhood against him." She didn't create a rebellion ex nihilo, Perturabo was fricking it all up, it rebelled and she told him why.
>leading a rebellion against imperial Rule over contributions to the Crusade isn't actually a rebellion at all
are you going to tell me that the Caliban under Luther never rebelled either? you can blame whatever casue you want but rebellion against the IoM is still Rebellion and Pert was justified in his reaction. You can b***h over the morality of the the punitive action he took but just like Cruze his actions were justified. The issue that this thread has is they take a slanted story from a pro IoM group that specializes in pulling the heartstrings of manchildren as the gospel. Read the Black books from the HH game instead. Despite being fiercely Pro IoM Bligh is extremely even handed as to the actions taken by the forces and characters at play.
>Pert was justified
how? He was demanding 10 times more from their world than they could produce to the point that they were living like slaves who were dying of hunger. Since Perturabo joined the great crusade, things have gone badly for the people of Olympia.
>olympia was the only world that struggled under tithes for the GC
Olympia was not the first nor was it the last Imperial world where the citizenry struggled under the burden of the imperial tithe during the crusade. What is telling however, is you clearly believe that open rebellion to the IoM was excusable and the punitive action Pert took was too much.
Olympia was not the only territory that suffered the tithes, Pert also pulled from the other worlds of the Meratara cluster and various other garrisons from worlds the IVth conquered. Olympia however is the only world that had a functioning political scene that was notorious for it's backstabbing and venomous nature. If the tithes were as hard as they claimed why was Olympia the only world in open rebellion? It was the greatest planet of the cluster and was Pert's homeworld, if their cause was just why did they stand alone in rebellion? The answer is simple they thought their plight was unique and that their current situation was beneath them. Olympia is fortunate that Pert took a personal interest to their actions.
Every world have Tithe, but it's tailored to world's needs. Like in 40k hive world is asked to provide hundreds of regiments while shitty death world will give like 2 or maybe even 1 per decade.
Perturabo taxed his world to a point where there were almos no teenagers on planet. He was only primarch to do it, why? Because he was moronic and suffered massive casualties in every battle. Only other Legion planet to ever rebell was Caliban and it was mix of being left for decades, chaos taint and highest commander personal grudge that was exploited by chaos, Olympia had none of it just Pert being moronic and demanding more than planet can provide because unlike other primarchs he can't stop sucking dick and not suffer heavy losses whenever his legion does something. Even world eaters who went full moron, did not overtax their recruit planets, making becamin marine privilage instead of stealing every teenage boy into legion.
>tithes aren't universal they are tailed to the unique makeup of each world
then that means Olymipa could handle them. The Departmento Munitorum is the body that deals with the collection of tithes and only the best of current generation males are made into legionnaires. The IW didn't even get Imperial army units from them unless they were penal units.
>why didn't the Satrap leverage Olympia's prestige to gain extra support form the off the book mech that had close ties with Pert
>why is Pert to blame for what would be clear failings by the planetary governing body
>why are you ignoring the fact the the IV was even more dogshit when it came to incurring losses before Pert was found and Legion efficiency improved drastically after the decimation and his opening campaigns?
>why are you taking the word of someone whose life was formed around exploiting weaknesses in other leaders and backstabbing?
>why is punitive action wrong when Pert does it?
>then that means Olymipa could handle them. The Departmento Munitorum is the body that deals with the collection of tithes and only the best of current generation males are made into legionnaires. The IW didn't even get Imperial army units from them unless they were penal units.
Munitorum don't tithe Astartes Homewordls moron, Marines tithe them and Perturabo overtaxed his planet because he couldn't devise diferent tactic than meatgrinder with high casaulties.
>why is Pert to blame for what would be clear failings by the planetary governing body
Because he is govenor, he is in charge of planet.
It's all his fault.
>why didn't the Satrap leverage Olympia's prestige to gain extra support form the off the book mech that had close ties with Pert
Wouldn't solve the problem, that being Pert siphoning everything the planet had. If it got Mechanicus support to deal with the labor issues he caused he'd probably throw another b***hfit and raise the tithe again.
>>why is Pert to blame for what would be clear failings by the planetary governing body
Because he is the governing body.
>>why are you ignoring the fact the the IV was even more dogshit when it came to incurring losses before Pert was found and Legion efficiency improved drastically after the decimation and his opening campaigns?
Meatgrinder tactics working doesn't mean they were the ONLY tactic that could have worked. You can use a cannon to open a door, but it's much less moronic to simply use the fricking key.
>>why are you taking the word of someone whose life was formed around exploiting weaknesses in other leaders and backstabbing?
Because Olympia truly was dogshit at the moment as the narrative tells us, it is not out of character for anyone there and all of its faults can be traced to Perturabo's shit behaviour.
>>why is punitive action wrong when Pert does it?
Because if you cause something you have no right to punish anyone but yourself when that something leads to consequences.
Again, if you force your subjects to do something that they simply cannot do, they will rebel and the fault will lie with you and your incompetent kingship
>The Departmento Munitorum is the body that deals with the collection of tithes
No, the primarchs were in charge of managing their conquered worlds and home worlds, some did it better than others.
>and only the best of current generation males are made into legionnaires.
IW had the particularity of having a high purity gene-seed and with a great rate of almost 100% combatable recruits, practically anyone could become IW, that is why Perturabo took all the possible boys.
>The answer is simple they thought their plight was unique and that their current situation was beneath them.
Hilariously, also a good summation of Pert
>demand a cartoonishly large tithe from a world that cannot sustain it
>they grow impoverished and hungering as you drain all of their resources, even if that world fed you, clothed you and trusted you
>they rebel
>be surprised and seethe about it
If a king demands of his subjects to grow wings and fly, and they fail in doing so, the fault lies not with the subjects.
Well, we dont know about Cruze (ends before reveal of his death and last sane scene was him thinking over the possibility of a future where Emps forgives) and Alpharius (only Omegon is explicitly dead due to their swap, Bobby G smack happened later thus post mass marine dopplering).
Yes. Its also because petruabo was an insecure performative cuck.
Pertruabo, above everything else, wants to be validated, to be told how cool and great he is, which inherently makes him uncool and everyone else could understand that. Its why his rival dorn was lauded while no one liked perty. Dorn just wanted to do a good job, he didnt care about respect or honors or anything else, he just wanted to build walls and fortifications and then man said fortifications against whatever enemy was required.
Perty meanwhile didnt actually care for war, he just did it because he thought it would make people like him, so he did it begrudgingly, carelessly and wastefully and lo and behold no one liked him.
Most primarchs wanted to be the best, to do their passion to the fullest. Pertruabo just wanted to beat someone else so he would get told hes better than them. Leave magnus in an empty room and he would turn it into a library, leave lorgar in an empty room and he would start scribbling religious manifestos, leave petruabo in an empty room and you will have an empty room.
>leave petruabo in an empty room and you will have an empty room
Perturabo canonically filled his empty room with 40k figures and beat Fulgrim upside the head with a model Warhound to establish dominance when he got tired of listening to his shit.
pertruabo only painted warhammer figures because he thought it would make people like him, he did nothing for its own sake
He did obviously have an inferiority complex. The last HH book had an internal monologue for Perturabo where he is rationalizing a plan to himself into an Obliterator to avoid having to deal with his emotional issues. Perty has the worst explication of any of the primarchs, dude was always a poorly conceived afterthought. I say that as someone who likes the Iron Warriors as a faction.
>He did obviously have an inferiority complex
Yes, its pretty much his sole motivating factor which is my point.
Dorn builds because he likes it, ferrus and vulkan smith because they like it, russ and the lion fight because they like it, guiliman rules because he likes it, even kurze skins people because he enjoys it.
Pertruabo is the only primarch who did what he did not because it was what he liked but because he wanted to have someone else say "wow youre really good, so much better than the other guys", he is a sad and pitiful waste of talent driven by hollow spite.
He just wanted a hug and some praise.
And yet he was too proud to ever admit that. He couldn't ever say "I worked hard on this. It was really difficult. I hope you like it."
His sister was right. He hides in silence when all he wants to do is scream "look at me!"
Once again we're reminded Pert is /tg/
>he just like me fr fr
it's all ambiguous and meant to be interpreted whichever way you want. perty and his legion supposedly got shit assignments due to *handwaves* bureaucracy. or so they say but they may just be making that up because they're c**ts.
You just don't get it you shrink nerd
>wasting time and the lives of his men out of pure spite so he could complain about not having time for doing things and seethe doing all the shitty deadly missions.
He's literally me fr fr
Out of all the prpblems the traitor primarchs had, Perturabo coukd probably have been prevented from turning traitor if the Emperor had given him a hug eveey now and again.
Primarchs who were always going to rebel
>Angry Ron
>Rick and Morty
>Alpharius probably or maybe not?
>Conrad Cruze
>Logan probably since that chaos guy was in his army the whole time telling him how chaos was cool
100 is meant to be "average" but the problem is that this average is standardized according to what is assumed to be the average intelligence of an 18yo in a western country. Some countries game this and train their kids to excel beyond this, so you get highly educated countries like Finland or Singapore with higher than the 100 IQ average, while the comparative IQ distribution in Africa is worse compared to European nations.
Most people globally do not have a 100 IQ average by Western standards, however.
Mostly his martyr complex. He wanted everyone to be in awe of how much he and his legion sacrificed for the Crusade, and got pissy when that didn't happen.
Yeah, he got a lot of the horrible meat-grinder campaigns, but he could have altered his approach or asked for some kind of support to make them at least *slightly* less of an awful mud-slog, but he refused out of the stubborn pride typical of a lot of the Primarchs.
Pert was never in his right mind to begin with.
I always saw it as Perturabo's paranoia and shame that it was HIS home planet that rebelled which was a huge sign of weakness
He was an autistic chad... a curse more than a blessing.
Why would the toga be colored in the hazard stripe pattern? That's so dumb.
Because he's autistic.
>I absolutely HATE fun
I'm surprised you don't identify with Perturabo tbh.
I'm having fun by making fun of that autist perturabo. He's the chrischan of the primarchs, and I'm the cat piss girl.
Did the hazard stripes make it 28k years into the future? I thought in the setting it was just some heraldic stuff, only players/viewers/readers would recognize as 21 century hazard stripes.
Yeah, Genestealer cult tech uses it, and they're meant to be repurposed civilian and industrial equipment.
HH lore states at some point that the Iron Warriors use hazard stripes as form of dark humor, in the vein of they're the ones that are hazardous. They even slap some of the stripes on their weapons. I guess a particularly braggart Iron Warrior may be inclined to painting his whole armor in hazard stripes.
>Logical and efficient with a dark sense of humour
They're just like me fr.
Hehehe stripes
Can someone tell me where it says that when he thinks too hard introspectively it causes him to personality wipe? Someone was claiming that was why he was an autist. He would think himself into forgetting who he was.
Guess I am shadowbanned
You're a gay homo, as well.
Also why does some autist keep making threads about Perturabo? Hello GW, are you trying to push Pert into 40k and have no idea what to do?
He was mentioned once in new 40k, he got his ass kicked by Mortarion.
>he got his ass kicked by Mortarion
I don't remember this one tbh. Only that he had a tea party with Honsou
8th ed Death Guard codex.
>why does some autist keep making threads about Perturabo
He identifies strongly with the character, no doubt.
Perhaps it's the return of the Iron Tard.
qrd on the iron tard?
He will get some spotlight when the Vashtorr story continues.
It'd be nice to see Perty be more than a joke. Maybe explain his ascension to greater daemon like Prometheus stealing fire from the gods. He didn't make a deal or bargain for his power, he just straight up took it.
I also think that over the last 10k years he's been building his own galaxy conquering army and so he can launch them against both the Imperium and Traitor forces, because he hates them both.
Maybe even with his own brand of Men of Iron to pump his numbers up.
He decimated his legion on his first day as CEO. Biological models cannot predict the toxicity he would have shown as middle management.
>random backwater planet technology for throwaway combatants
>literal ancient wizard biomancer can't remove them without killing the patient
the nails make no sense
It's even worse when you consider that he could have easily just made a new body for Angron. The warp soul was the most important part, just clone him and stuff his soul in the new body.
>his daemon primarch form still has the nails
They're warp tech, and they weren't invented by the backwaters, they're archeotech.
archeotech=//=warp tech. Archeotech just means it's from the dark age of technology. There's no evidence that the BN bind to the soul or use the warp at all. In fact it seems to allude that the whole process is neurotransmitter chemical manipulation.'
The only standing reason for Angron to have the BN while a DEAMON made from WARP ENERGY and therefore NOT SUBJECT TO THE RULES OF ORGANIC LIFE LET ALONE INTELLIGENT LIFE.
Is because Khorne is a MASSIVE DICK!
>life is torture with the nails
>hate them with every fiber of your being
>can at least be at peace when you die
>maybe your warp soul will get reincarnated or you’ll be a perpetual!
>take a deal to ascent to demo hood
>have to stay alive and keep the nails forever
There is no character more moronic than Angron, glad he’s just a jobber and his legion sucks
And he managed to fail conquering his planet and frick up his legion before going down. Angron is so damn pathetic, Emp should have killed him off out of mercy
>>take a deal to ascent to demo hood
He didn't take the deal. Lorgar took it for him.
angron didn't choose shit, lorgar chose for him and never gave him a chance to die
Angron's tale is more about others making decisions for him. When Angron makes a decision its usually rebellion, and attempt to die.
My headcannon is that Angron never wanted to remove the nail because it was all that was left from his nucerian butt buddy. He is a slave to the past.
I always assumed that the nails are still present in his daemon form because he can't imagine life without them. They've been with him for so long that they've just become part of his psyche. He literally can't conceive of an image of himself without them.
My headcanon is that emperor took Angron's refusal personally. Person like the emperor most likely didn't have many people who would refuse him, he's a charismatic man after all. And when someone does, he takes it as a huge slight. Not to mention this one was his ''son''. Not that emperor really show any care towards Angron at all.
Imperial Fistings fans still SEETHE over that to this day.
>Christmas 2022
>Two Fists players get IW players as their secret santa
>other guy got his fist 'architecture for dummies', I built this and put it in the gifts box
Having detailed accounts of the Horus Heresy instead of leaving it as vague mythology was always a mistake.
here's how you solve your problem: ignore the "canon" and stop reading this garbage. Then it can be anything you want
40k lore isn't great in general but primarch lore is hopelessly awful, Horus Heresy novels were a mistake.
The only part of exploring the primarch's history that I like was Angron's story, or at least to begin with.
Having an Empath primarch being broken down to nothing but perpetual pain and rage wanting to die beside his slave brothers and sisters before taken out of the battlefield in the last moments is a genuinely fascinating idea. That and trying to shape his space marine legions into that ideal is also a great idea. Too bad that they fricked it up with the whole World Eater legion lobotomizing themselves to please daddy who still wanted nothing to do with them and don't get me started on that fricking ship master that somehow can calm down fricking ANGRON enough. At least there is some poetry with finally meeting his death only for Kharn to beg Lorgar to ascend his daddy.
Seriously, where does the Angron=Empath thing come from? Is it in a short story somewhere or something?
I feel like it's just headcanon that people started assuming was confirmed lore
Thank you. I thought I had gone crazy or missed something. Horus Heresy is trashy pulp enough that I could definitely see some author (probably ADB) deciding that it would be a shocking twist that the angry guy called angry was akshully... supposed to be nice!
Many such cases.
How many times I heard that Baneblade was scout tank during DAoT.
He's a failed stoic
He wants to pretend to be the dog tied to a wagon going down the hard path but instead the wagon is doing just fine for everyone else, he's just decided to walk in the briars just to blame the wagon's path. He doesn't accept hardships that come but actively seeks them out or creates them so he can pretend he is tougher and has more value than he does. He sees his entire legion as mere hands and feet to his logos not understanding the point is that the grand design has to be a net good; the roots of the tree can eat shit so long as the fruit actually blooms and spread seeds instead of being too sour for anything to touch.
For me, there was once a supposed tragedy in Pert in that he ruined olympia in a moment of weakness and misunderstanding, but now, when I look back at him a few years later, and at the end of the heresy, I can see he was just bitter over nothing. He had everything he could have imagined, but choose the "hard path" because only then he may have gotten to see something new, something flawed.
It's been described that among the primarchs, he was the only one that always immidiately understood everything, that he had no wonder or curiosity over things. He could dissect a building and it's architecture and in time, lose interest over it because of how he functioned.
I get the idea, but at the end of the day, he also was incredibly bitter over perceived slights that did not exist, he may as well be legitimately autistic, given that he could not see that the emperor gave him the tasks he did because he was the one that could get it done, instead of thinking that he is some sort of expendable toy.
He is just a very bitter person that did not understand the idea of causes, or what a change of perspective can bring, to quote his adoptive sister
>But the truth is, brother, I have followed your campaigns carefully, and I noticed a pattern that disturbed and then alarmed me. Always you do things the most difficult way, and in the most painful manner. You cultivate a martyr's complex, lurching from man to man, holding out your bleeding wrists so they might see how you hurt yourself. You brood in the shadows when all you want to do is scream, 'Look at me!' You are too arrogant to win people over through effort. You expect people to notice you there in the half-darkness, and point and shout out, 'There! There is the great Perturabo! See how he labours without complaint!' 'You came to this court as a precocious child. Your abilities were so prodigious that nobody stopped to look at what you were becoming.'
Oh wow, he's just like me fr fr
>I get the idea, but at the end of the day, he also was incredibly bitter over perceived slights that did not exist, he may as well be legitimately autistic
The Lion was also autistic and look at how he turned out.
Loyal?
I liked the lore better from the tome they had Obi Juan and that half Eldar spydude.
>Who do I believe in my death dream?
>My brother Magnus, who is the smartest motherfricker I know besides the Emperor
>Or Erebus
Horus was an idiot
I dunno, ask /hhg/
>Perturabo wastes valuable resources in its campaigns.
>Perturabo demands that the population of Olympia give him more resources, even though he is leaving the entire world without resources and its citizens are living as slaves.
>Perturabo sacrifices tens of thousands of his children.
>Perturabo demands more recruits from Olimpia, even though it is decimating the population.
>Olimpia decides that she prefers to reveal herself and die before continuing to obey Perturabo.
>Perturabo is surprised that his homeworld has rebelled against him.
>his sister tells the truth to Perturabo.
>Perturabo breaks her neck.
He was always an idiot.
Never read any of the gay BL shit, I just stuck with Chapter approved articles and the Index Astartes, from back in the day. Far more coherent than anything Blacked Library can put out.
Perty's just a moronic b***h boy stuck on his own feelings. He can't get overhimself so he makes it all about him. Common problem for autistic man children.
Too deluded to self correct.
Too arrogant to accept exterior criticism or complements.
>he really is, literally me
People who sit here and b***h about Perturabo being a shit person are missing the point. Yeah, he was a shit person. He realizes he was a shit person who did unforgivable things too, and constantly bashes himself for not being good enough. This in turn feeds into his cycle of resentment and loathing, not just for others, but for himself.
And the core of this problem is that he *is* a person, not the perfect weapon he logically believes he should be. He had dreams, ambitions, expectations and emotions, but he pushed it all aside because he thought it was burden. That's what his sister was lamenting when he got pissed and killed her. Not that he was always a b***hy irredeemable comic book villain, but that he was slowly killing the person inside out of sheer stubbornness and unaddressed hatred borne from his paranoia and self isolation. He never let himself become a man.
The Cavea Ferrum is a not so subtle metaphor for all of this. An impenetrable labyrinth, with a cluttered room full of all the things he wants to bury in the center. Art, architecture, devices, gifts, memories, all of it. Nobody else can find it unless he lets them, but he never shows it to them because he doesn't want to. Sometimes he just wants to burn all of it. Decimating Olympia was the catalyst for a total ego death that ends with him betraying all of his principals and ascending to daemonhood after dabbing on Rogal so hard that the Inquisition had to erase the truth of it from history. Once you understand this, everything begins to make sense.
>dabbing on Rogal
>Dorn intentionally walks into Petrurabo's perfect dream ambush
>despite a ridiculous advantage the IW suffer enormous casualties
>post battle IF are re-forged and ready to serve The Imperium again while the IW are shattered and never fight as a Legion again
>this is the SECOND battle where Perturabo had a ludicrous advantage over Dorn yet utterly failed to beat him and this time he had no excuses of outside factors
>post battle IF are re-forged and ready to serve The Imperium again
>they have enough marines to be divided into three chapters.
And? Can you imagine The Lion or Guilliman getting any enemy to walk into his perfectly laid ambush? Without any sort of plan? The ''battle'' would be a one-sided massacre ending in the enemy's complete annihilation. Yet despite Pertardo being a supposed 10 billion IQ galaxy brain, IW casualties were horrendous and they literally broke apart as a legion.
hey, in Perry's defense, that's the closest he came to beating Dorn, in a victory for him.
Unfiltered IF cope. Go re-read the IW and IF IA articles instead of repeating shit from wikis and israelitetubers.
>cope
>objective fact that IW had the greatest advantage of any battle in history with their enemies willingly walking into their perfect wet dream trap without any sort of strategy
>objective fact they sustained massive casualties despite having an embarrassing advantage
>objective fact they got shattered as a legion and are now just a bunch of warbands
>objective fact IF protect the Imperium to this day with many successors
>objective cope from IF piss babies, all of the above was done by UM rescue party
>Cannot refute a single thing
>Just doubles down like his autismo papa
Based iron tard.
Ok THIS is cope. I like IF and all but dorn was fricking moronic here and it’s quite out of character for him. I think he was actually suicidal due to failing the emperor and wanted to get his ass kicked. Acceding to the codex was another form of suicide
Yeah, anon, that's exactly what he's saying. Dorn was an utter moron, threw himself and his soldiers into the most obvious trap there was with no plan or preparation, and the IW STILL came out of it with horrendous casualties and did not take down the enemy definitely.
If you handed this golden opportunity to literally any other primarch there would be nothing left of the enemy but paste. But Perturabo did the impossible- Dorn literally offered his neck for him in a blatant suicide play and the idiot still couldn't kill him.
>the IW STILL came out of it with horrendous casualties
Literally doesn't matter.
>For all their skill and ferocity, the Iron Warriors lacked the faith to make the ultimate sacrifice that victory demanded.
This is absolutely not IW behavior and never happened. There is NO sacrifice too great for victory for them, save for pride, which was all they really had to gain from driving the Fists to extinction. The truth is that they were drawing out the Fists' suffering because they thought it was funny to watch Dorn stomp around the trenches begging Perturabo for a duel, and only stopped because they knew that they couldn't solo the 2 (formerly) largest Post-Heresy loyalist legions in a single battle.
The ultimate sacrifice was disappearing because it would have taken almost their entire legion + Pertardo trading with Dorn to finish the job, they most certainly didn't have the stomach for it.
Perturabo's worst humiliation is that his legion is currently being commanded by a half-breed son of Dorn.
>IFs are better than IWs at everything.
>IF are even better being IW.
also, remember, Perty likely wants Dorn to admit defeat. He needs to hear him say "You win"
Why didn't the Emperor just make his generals from the custodians?
lol, a custode dies every time someone names them, the emperor needed beings that were genetically above humans.
Initially, he did. That was during the conquest of Terra. But Custodians take a long fricking time to create, and the Emperor had to do it personally back then to tailor the process to each and every individual Custodian (and then he had to close off certain pathways, like removing psyker aspects or personally imprinting his aegis, something he couldn't keep on doing with the Space Marines because it was a taxing process, so only a few of the very early Dark Angels legion ended up having it). The 40k-era process is a less-accurate version because it can't be tailored properly. It is also suggested that something about what the transformation process does triggers a dormant aspect deep in the gene pool. Possibly the original Men of Gold genome, still lurking in the recesses of Custodian DNA, rather than the Men of Stone who are the actual main genome present in humanity spread across the galaxy in 30k and 40k times.
Compare all that to the Primarchs and Space Marine legions. All he had to do was get a Primarch to fill a blood bag once or twice a day and then they could clone up the gene-seed needed from the OG source and stick it into somebody. Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands could take the gene-seed, compared with one in uncounted billions that could successfully trigger the transformation into a Custodian (and even if the trigger worked, they might still fail somewhere else). And on top of all that fun, you can even tailor a Primarch's legion to the Primarch to make them more effective.
The process wasn't perfect, but you can go for cheap, fast, or high-quality. With Space Marines, he went for cheap and high quality. With Custodians, he went for fast and high quality (arguably just straight-out high quality with how long it took to make just one). With Thunder Warriors, he went for cheap and fast.
I wouldn't call Thunder Warriors low-quality or cheap, just a more specialized tool. All we have on them points towards them just being very very good at fighting and not much else. You cannot overstate how explicitly made for combat Thunder Warriors were. Even in the Horus Heresy, when outnumbered, a healthy and lightly armed Thunder Warrior could very comfortably fight multiple marines at once-Without power armour.
There is a reason they degraded so rapidly, ultimately. They were built for one, short term thing, and they were built to do it with terrifying efficiency.
>I wouldn't call Thunder Warriors low-quality or cheap, just a more specialized tool.
They are low quality and cheap when their main problems are developing suddenly hyper aggressive turbo cancer or going completely insane at the drop of a hat and needing to put down like a rabid dog so they don't cause damage to their surroundings.
If the 1st Legion could do everything then why didn' the Empeor just make 20 of them?
He did. He made 20 different legions out of the different wings of the 1st legion at the time. Every other legion is merely a derivative of the 1st.
Literally what happened. And in most cases the iteration was worse than the 1st.
> NL needs to skin half a population to get the point across
> one DA dude opens up a box of psychic pain and the whole continent suddenly feels the fear of a dying population.
> IW are built for grindfest actions, sucks at it, b***hes about it and goes traitor.
> Stormwing is literally the same, except its competent to the point that it has the largest veteran section of all the wings. 3/4 dies in the Xenocides, no one b***hes about it.
at least he wasn't an idiot like the second and eleventh primarch.
Imagine all the technical marvels he would have built, if he was paired up with Magnus. ''Nah, just send him on space Verdun times 20 lol'' Bravo Neoth
He got chance to show how good he is at Olympia, his homeworld. It didn't end well, while primarchs usually made their worlds better place, Perturabo fricked his world over.
Lorgar got time to build churches everywhere, Guilliman build his pet empire, Ferrus and Vulkan both showed off their mastery of craft while conquering planets at the same time, Pert have no excuse for being homosexual who made nothing worth mentioning.
Pert improved a lot of things anon
>Left Siege of Terra because he didn’t like all the Demon summoning
>Becomes a Demon Primarch
When it's him, it's OK
He wouldn't be the first anti warp Primarch to end up as a demon. Morty hated Psykers and the Warp, look how things ended for him. The Khan roasting him for it really nailed it down.
Perty WAS a bit of an autist but he was also kind of hosed from the beginning. He was the great scientist and tech wizard of the Primarchs but he was born with the Eye of Terror always visible no matter where he was. He was a man of science that landed on a planet of religious zealots. But, he was hyper loyal and didn't have it in him to stand up for his beliefs. He never knocked over the religious zealotry on his home planet. He never asked for missions more in line with his skillset. The only times he broke faith were when he thought the Emperor was going to genocide him and his legion and when he realized that Horus was not going to let him finish the job on the Emperors Palace.
There is one plain and simple fact. The Heresy was hard carried by Perty and Morty. Fulgrim, Magnus, Angron, Kurze and Alpharius were batshit crazy and/or just totally unreliable. Horus himself got more and more unhinged as chaos got a hold of him.
So yeah, Perty critics have some valid points but lets not act like Perty was worthless. He was one of the most generally capable of all the Primarchs, he just had a few very large, flaws to him. Had the Emperor managed him correctly, Perty would have been one of his greatest assets.
Morty ultimately did it to save his Legion though.
It would have been better to die loyal that get turned into Plague Marines though
>*than
Also in his book it's implied he also does it for himself, because he keeps allucinating the scene of Emps saving him from the Overlord dude and superimposing Nurgle on Emps, so there was psychological trickery involved.
All in all I don't like how the Heresy books made Typhus into this 4d mastermind that steals the Legion from his Primarch, made Mortarion look very dumb.
>the great scientist and tech wizard of the Primarchs
That was Ferrus or Vulkan.
all three of them were tech wizards
Perturabo was an engineer, it completely explains his inability to interact with others without spazzing out. They're all like that.
small brain: perty got fricked over and unfairly assigned shit jobs
medium brain: perty is just a whiny b***h who liked getting his legion killed
activated brain: perty got assigned shit jobs because the emperor knew he was a shit primarch
Did Al show up yet?
Perturabo is the only Primarch that 'people' consistently get upset about.
By this standard he is the best and most well written of them all.
I'd argue Lorgar is better written in a sense, everyone has a good reason to hate him despite being that pathetic, most likely because he is that pathetic
Sometimes 40k feels like teenage school drama with the primarchs, everyone has daddy issues
What a thread.
Perturabo is the primarch of seething manchildren everywhere
Is there a better yellow to use for basing the hazard stripes?
Base white, glaze with Imperial Fist.
Yeah, use contrast paint method.
Thoughts on converting the plagueburst crawler into a daemonic siege engine for IW?
>grind off nurgle symbol
>replace nurgle weapons with lascannon/heavy bolters
>count as LR demolisher