DND fans all the sudden think they have it bad? Get in fucking line.

DND fans all the sudden think they have it bad? Get in fucking line.

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are just acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.
    WotC was happy to lend out its lawnmower for free for 20 years and now they have decided no longer. Get over it, go play something that isn't fucking D&D. It is a shit game and you're better off without it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >hey anyone is allowed to make a first person shooting game
      >hey now that I see you guys are making money I want it so after 20 years of first person shooter games you cant do it anymore sorry lol
      The OGL was always a scam

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >hey anyone is allowed to make a first person shooting game
        >hey now that I see you guys are making money I want it so after 20 years of first person shooter games you cant do it anymore sorry lol
        That's a bit of an oversimplification. After all, much like anybody can make an FPS game, anybody is allowed to make a TTRPG without paying WotC.
        It's more like if the original Doom engine was released with a license saying anybody could use it to make a FPS and sell it commercially. You can't use the actual Doom levels, but you CAN make your own and sell them for money.
        And then when Doom gets remade like 12 years later they do the same thing, letting you access the engine for your own profit.
        But then eight years after that, the entire industry is just making Doom clones. It's so bad that to people outside of the hobby, they don't call it a First Person Shooter, they just know it as Doom. There are a few other games not based on Doom, but most of the Market is just Doom and Doom-based games.
        It stagnates the industry. When nobody needs to build something bigger and better, they are all content to just copy the same engine, things never improve and we end up with a heap of shit.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What a stupid analogy. The only thing the OGL has ever permitted is quoting the SRD, which doesn't include any of WotC's intellectual property. A better analogy would be that WotC has let you take pictures of their shed so that you could build a similar one in your own backyard. Now, twenty years later, they're saying that they can – at any moment – come and take your shed and everything in it for themselves, even if you didn't need their express permission to even take pictures of their shed in the first place.
      >It is a shit game
      You keep saying that but no one has ever actually provided any reason for D&D being a bad game. Sure, 5e has its issues, but D&D as a whole has never been truly shit.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > What a stupid analogy. The only thing the OGL has ever permitted is quoting the SRD, which doesn't include any of WotC's intellectual property.
        You are wrong. The content of the SRDs have always been WotCs property, which is why a license was needed to use it at all. They might have let people use it, but the content was and still is theirs to share or not share.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You can use and reuse everything in the SRD freely, with or without an OGL. You cannot copyright or trademark rules or mechanics. Only their expression is WotC's. If you rewrite them, rearrange them, then WotC can't do shit because it's no longer their intellectual property but rather yours.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            you do not have to rewrite rules nor arbitrarily rearrange them. they just have to not contain anything copywritable, such as setting lore, trade dress, IP.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You can use and reuse everything in the SRD freely, with or without an OGL
            You are wrong. Froghemoths are in the SRD but are copyright of WotC. Their legal use is contingent on a license.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              legally, you can, however it would probably be easier to deny you even having a case I can't dismiss by simply calling our frogs croaklords.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          you cannot copyright game rules. if you believe that content to be yours you are welcome to show the patent you would need to claim that hasgarden gnome.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >you cannot copyright game rules.
            You can copyright the expression of rules, such as the SRD.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              you cannot copyright rules, expression is not a legal way to get around that. in situations where expression is copyrighted and rules are not copyrighted, expression always loses. that's the law.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Here you go buddy. This might clear up some confusion for you.
                https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/contract-law/copyright-law-protects-expressions-of-ideas-contract-law-essay.php

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Discussing the concept of copyright in games and its rules the courts were in agreement with the decision of US court in Allen v Academic Games League of Am. [12] In the present case the plaintiff claimed that the rules developed by the defendants for the games developed by him violated his copyright. Herein the court rejected the claim of the plaintiff. The court was of the view that the idea involved in an expression can be copied as long as the copyrighted expression is not totally appropriated. So where idea-expression merges it is not possible give protection to the idea. This very often happens in the case of factual situation, where there is very limited scope of expression. Referring to the earlier cases the court stated [13]

                >“Here, Allen has not shown that it is possible to distinguish the expression of the rules of his game manuals from the idea of the rules themselves. Thus, the doctrine of merger applies and although Allen may be entitled to copyright protection for the physical form of his games, he is not afforded protection for the premises or ideas underlying those games. To hold otherwise would give Allen a monopoly on such commonplace ideas as a simple rule on how youngsters should play their games.”
                thanks for giving me an example of how correct I am, maybe you should read it more carefully next time garden gnomeanon.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The court was of the view that the idea involved in an expression can be copied as long as the copyrighted expression is not totally appropriated.

                >you cannot copyright game rules.
                You can copyright the expression of rules, such as the SRD.

                > you cannot copyright rules, expression is not a legal way to get around that.
                So yes, you CAN copyright an expression of the rules. Which is what the SRD is. So WotC owns copyright of the SRD, and can license it as they like. Admit you were wrong and we can all move on.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >“Here, Allen has not shown that it is possible to distinguish the expression of the rules of his game manuals from the idea of the rules themselves
                it is up to the plantif to show this is possible
                he could not do such. and thats for a video game. it gets even more strict when regarding fireball, remember? the spell you deluded yourself into thinking you "changed" to be "a different expression"

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >You can copyright the expression of rules, such as the SRD.
              Precisely. So long as you use your own words and don't just copy-paste the SRD you're in the clear. In theory, anyway.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So... If you just rewrite a several hundred page document, you're golden.
                Well third party developers, get on it! If you're so certain that the OGL 1.0 SRDs are so important then you can just do a system rewrite from the ground up and release it under an open license. No problemo!

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >. If you just rewrite a several hundred page document, you're golden.
                in theory you could fully rewrote/reword 5e's core books & wotc couldnt do anything. you change the wording 100% remove copyrighted names & settings, you are according to the law off scott free (keep in mind this is a Major undertaking but dooable)

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Uh, no. The Supreme Court ruled that game mechanics, expressions thereof, and mentioning cannot be copyrighted by any means.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WotC doesn't own the d20 ruleset and never did, they in fact lost it over trying to sue people for turning cards sideways. They only ever owned the settings and ther monsters Gary and Rob made.
      The OGL was just a promise to not be gays about the portions of the game nobody can own. They're not being gays about the portions of the game nobody can own.

      Nobody gives a fuck about GWs rules beucase nobody actually plays the goddman ever changing games. Warhammer is the model lines and the lore, things that GW actually can own.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        literally invented the unified d20 system and made the SRD and OGL to open it to the public

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the unified d20 system
          lmao where do you come up with this shit? Point us to this system. I'd love to see what original ideas WotC made into a unified system that didn't exist before they bought the rights to D&D from TSR

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Beyind the actaul wording itself, notihng in the d20 SRD can be owned. It is game rules with no contextual prose and contextual prose is the only thing you can own in regards to a tabletop game.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            there's way more CONTEXTUAL PROSE than you realize in that system, it's a fucking landmine field, so much of a unified system is self referential and as such good fucking luck rewriting that and avoiding slapping the OGL on your product

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You dont have to rewrite it because any scenario you described causes the law to favor the one making the copy.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you would get your ass sued if you copied it, retard

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wording cant be owned anymore than a recipe or phone book.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It’s more akin to Ford Motor Co. trying to sue other car companies because they use wheels and engines.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      SHALOM!

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Get over it, go play something that isn't fucking D&D
      I hate WoTC and think what they've done is scummy and a disastrous move but what anon said here is 100% true. Hell, I'm making my own system it's not hard you retards. Dice roll =event! There, boom. New system.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm actually entirely okay with this, because the normies entering the hobby will dry up and die. No more Shitical Role, no more thots livestreaming games, no one pretending to care about the plight of Orcs and whether killing them is a hate crime.
    The sooner our hobby stops being mainstream, the better. Fuck 'em all, they can eat shit.
    Fuck off from D&D and go and latch onto another hobby, you social parasites.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >No more Shitical Role, no more thots livestreaming games, no one pretending to care about the plight of Orcs and whether killing them is a hate
      Those people are supported by corporate.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I'm actually entirely okay with this, because the normies entering the hobby will dry up and die. No more Shitical Role, no more thots livestreaming games, no one pretending to care about the plight of Orcs and whether killing them is a hate crime.
      >The sooner our hobby stops being mainstream, the better. Fuck 'em all, they can eat shit.
      >Fuck off from D&D and go and latch onto another hobby, you social parasites.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Except we'll be seeing even more of that as they all drift to Pathfinder. You can an hero yourself when late 2023/early 2024 has Critical Role still.

      Gods you're a child.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How is anything you've cited preventing you from playing the games you want or playing D&D any way you want for that matter

      Just do your own thing, damn

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He's going to forever be babby mad that people can make money off of their hobbies while he can't get a fortune 500 job because they don't allow him to work for their corporation because he's a meth head, and he says that he can quit any time he wants. It always boils down to envy/jealousy with these people 100% of the time.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Female elves used to be able to faint at will, and used this ability to prevent rapists from enjoying the act.

    The problem with modern DND is that there are users that immediately got angry reading the first two words of that sentence. Assholes that go off the rails and demand everything in lore is changed, not becuase of context or becuase an entire principle is ridiculous, but becuase they can't read past the first two words in that sentence.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      My dude, there are people who get upset at the word "female" in and of itself.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i came to the thread pre-upset before reading anything!

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Good, you ssaved yourself a lot of time and effort. Now pick a post and disagree with it. If you can do it by outright denying what they were saying while providing nothing to back your point, that's even better.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      elves used to be able to faint at will, and used this ability to prevent rapists from enjoying the act.
      But what is the benefit of that? Sure, you're ruining rapist's fun (if that), but you still get raped all the same. And no resistance just means the rapist has easier time. And if that does ruin his fun, he might just cave in her ribs or kill her outright out of frustration while she's unconscious.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        no, it was so that the dm doesn't have to roleplay the rape. if you ever think modern chuds are worse than old boomers about this kind of thing, well. unfortunatelly that generation needed rules like this.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >no, it was so that the dm doesn't have to roleplay the rape
          That... makes sense, I guess. But I meant more from the in-universe perspective.
          But why elf women specifically? Women of other races weren't rapeable enough or something?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Unironically yes, there is a reason half-elves exist you know.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >And if that does ruin his fun, he might just cave in her ribs or kill her outright out of frustration while she's unconscious.
        or he could do that because of the resistance which seems more likely, what a dumb argument

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      elves used to be able to faint at will, and used this ability to prevent rapists from enjoying the act.
      What if the rapist has a fetish for fucking unconscious women?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Only female elves have this ability
      Somewhere, there is a male goblin in a dress seething about this.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Female
      >Elves
      >Existing

      Not at my table.

      Also I don't believe that was ever a real rule.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's a readon why they have immunity to Paralysis, Ghbouls abound.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >No more Shitical Role
    Colville has already announced work on a new 'cinematic and tactical' TTRPG will begin next week. They will eventually just stop using D&D.
    Everybody is deciding they will have their own game with blackjack and hookers, and it's great! Instead of just shitty D&D content we will finally get some new systems. Most will be bad, some will be good. You don't need to play the bad ones.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Colville
      >muh eceleb

      Unironically cancer. By watching drama students 'roleplay' completely scripted and rehearsed games normies began copying the quirky bullshit. Quirky bullshit that drives YouTube clicks, can be edited into funny gifs and tiktoks

      It's caused players to abandon the natural roleplay styles that saved the hobby in the 80s and 90s.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >normies began copying the quirky bullshit
        Thus happened in my group and I had to start getting into it just to save my sanity.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Never watched colvilles or any other D&D actual play. Colville seems like a good dude and has a lot of great advice on GMing. Collville and critical Role making their own systems is great because all the new people they brought in will either move to that system or better yet give up on TTRPGs. I get the critical role hate, the show is like Porn. It sets expectations which can never be met. it’s also scripted and I generally do not
        Like the extremely online side of the show’s audience. But Matt Merced and Matt colville seem like alright dudes. Are they shit lib vaccine shills? Sure. Does that matter for running the game or really anything else for that matter? No

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      > Colville has already announced work on a new 'cinematic and tactical' TTRPG will begin next week.
      Let's face it making an RPG is harder than he looks
      I eagerly await whatever retarded abortion he makes.
      Also I encourage this - These 'people' are welcome to make their own ghettos and segregate themselves, don't go to a hobby and try to take it over.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Let's face it making an RPG is harder than he looks
        It's not. Takes at most a day to write the rough outline, and a week to finish it (if you're taking it slow).

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So you're saying warhammer fans are retarded and take the beating while DnD fans don't and object to being mistreated? Or did you not realize that's what you were implying?

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ooh woe is me I suffer from choosing to play my game
    >ooh you don't know what true suffering is I can't believe you're critiquing a company
    you deserve to suffer more gay

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    D&Dfags don't even acknowledge how bad they've had it for years. They keep buying books for this piece of shit system and then jerk off about how great it is that they ran a whole session where they didn't roll any dice at all because the rules would have just gotten in the way.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's not a competition, you know

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do any of you pay for TTRPG stuff? It's all just imaginary anyway. Isn't there a popular homebrew game or something?

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Warhammer fans at this point have either made peace with their situation and left or switched to some non-GW-related mutation of the system, or are beaten wives with terminal Stockholm syndrome.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what's going on now? What did WotC/Hasbro do to fuck up this time? Did they close the OGL?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Rumor mill about WotC trying to tap into royalties from 3rd party splat book creators for using their "IP". This potentially COULD fuck some writers, but people who just use the d20 system and make their own settings and expand on the ruleset are safe since you cant copyright game rules. Since Hasbro is dying, they're doing some big suit short sighted decisions and figure out how they can legally declare the earnings from 3rd party creators as capital they also can use to support loan applications.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >rumor mill
        Knock it off. The actual document got leaked days ago and was already confirmed that it was real before that. The only thing that's yet to happen is WotC opening their mouth to comment on the increasingly loud pushback that has started to form around them, likely because they are scrambling to put together a revised document that will hold up to legal scrutiny.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Until it is officially public its still conjecture, since it functionally does not exist. I think its total dogshit and hope that this kills D&D so fingers crossed that they double down and make it as dogshit as that shit they tried to pull with 4e AND they try to retroactively apply it to everything.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      leaked revision to the OGL that basically says they own everything you make and will force you to pay them 25% royalties. They can also take anything you made and republish it themselves and tell you that you can't publish yours anymore.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    GW isn't nearly as bad.
    GW doing bad shit only effects retarded GW paypigs.
    WotC fucking with the OGL fucks with people who aren't even WotC customers. It even effects people who deliberately avoided supporting WotC.
    The equivalent for GW would be more like if GW successfully somehow made the concept of wargames their IP and threatened the entire wargaming hobby over night.
    It's entirely different in scope.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't get it tho, not like wotc is kicking your door in if you decide to play a homebrew.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They both suck. WotC trying to shoot it's competition in the dick does not mean that GW gets a pass. Stop supporting both of them.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can someone give me a tl;dr on what DND is doing?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      New license agreement leaked with draconian measures meant to essentially grab what they can from the TTRPG market and possibly erase various creators/competitors who used the previous OGL license

      Part of the concept is to centralize player activity on a proprietary online platform that can be monetized via microtransactions (as opposed to the current model of getting 80% of revenue from GMs)

      This is all happening on the backdrop of Hasbro (which owns WoTC which owns MTG and DnD) pursuing aggressive monetization strategies in general as it flounders financially, to the point where some investors have clamored for WoTC to be separated from Hasbro

      We'll probably know more in a week after the deadline for questions related to the license expires

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >the company that owns their hobby
    do people really internalise all this The Games Workshop Hobby TM corpospeak shit, or do outrage addicts have a victimhood fetish and buy into it so they can pretend they don't have any agency to alter their hobby experience by seeking out alternatives?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      People who play Warhammer have been sucked into that world, there is no escape. They even buy the books and pretend they heard someone say they were good somewhere once

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