Frick. I loved rise of the swiss (as much or more than swifter) and while Alexander isn't my absolute favourite figure (more like second or third), of course I love him. You pass.
>I just want Fields of Glory Napoleon
We all do anon. They could release DLC for every single coalition war and I wouldn't give a frick because you know it would be top tier content
There's a mod that adds Ancient China and India that let's you do just that
I am a bit curious why they're going back all the way to the bronze age (lots of conjecture and spearmen/warriors), but can't find it in them to do an official East Asia DLC for FOG2 or Medieval. Sengoku Jidai worked very well, but I understand it was more of a sanctioned mod built from Pike and Shot.
>conjecture
It's not like Sumeria/Babylon/Hittite/Egypt don't have records. Look at the epic battles. We have a pretty good understanding of Kadesh.
Other fun stuff is Hittite having more advanced metallurgy - but I doubt they'll fold that into unit stats or anything.
Frankly I don't care about East Asia, it gets plenty of attention already and isn't there already a series at Slith covering it?
Having written records is one thing, but not every literate culture left behind a corpus detailed enough about their way of war to represent them at the level of fidelity FOG aspires to. The battle of Kadesh may be an outlier, but let's take Sargon - he has a campaign in this upcoming DLC. What's our level of information about his army? There's a textual passage saying that he had a retinue of warriors that he fed everyday (maybe a "picked" warriors unit in FOG terms). For weapons and tactics, we're reliant on archaeology and some ancient art, which show some good evidence to support FOG having spearmen, light infantry, and war wagons/early chariots for Sargon and other factions in the region. I don't believe there's any extant writings that narrate any of his battles at a tactical level.
The above isn't bad per se, and you could have fun playing a series of battles against Sargon's various opponents. But, it's not nearly the level of detail that we have about the army and campaigns of say Alexios Komnenus who has a campaign in Medieval. For him we have detailed info on forces, campaigns, and battles. If you did East Asia, the level of detail available in the records is similarly abundant, and you'd have a bunch of options for Chinese and Japanese campaigns with a high level of fidelity.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I like the period and am excited to play even a hypothetical battle in it. It's just that simple. While much of it is mired in conjecture the period itself was documented so it's not as if it's all historical fantasy as would be the case in other eras and locales.
You have already tacitly admitted that Kadesh was well documented and understood. In fact, if we're getting into the weeds on this there are still a great many unknowns in other ancient eras. For all the documentation of rome we're still supposing certain things about the composition of their baggage train and accompaniments. Of course there's a subjective limit for how much supposition we can stomach but for me Swifter is still within the realm OUTSIDE OF THE SEA PEOPLE.
Funny you'd complain about Sargon and then leave the fact we have army lists for a literally unknown faction.
>it gets plenty of attention already
It is very laser-focused though, you never see games about the Yamato period or anything besides late Han/Three Kingdoms for Japan and China, respectively.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Lets be honest. There's more of that than there is of super early ancient era stuff. Can you even name a game with Hittite in it outside swifter?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Age of Empires I, though to be fair ancient China and Japan are also in it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sounds like we suffer together then. Here's hoping you get your game. It's not my scene so I don't know but can't they DLC it into one of the far east games they already have?
1 year ago
Anonymous
What do they have besides Sengoku Jidai? The scope on that one is too narrow to accomodate these.
It may be beyond their scope, but I'd like to see the ancient far east in FoG II, honestly, since *that* is the game about antiquity, but I am more than happy just seeing more Bronze Age stuff for once.
There's a mod that adds Ancient China and India that let's you do just that
Not quite the same, I am not much for mods.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Civ... 3 had them. Granted, Hittites make appearances rarely. Their role in history is more compartmentalized and bounded in time than China, Japan, etc. though.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The thing about Japan is that the historical record is really sparse.
For China, it's more a case that the Chinese culture is utterly enamored with the three kingdoms (much like how western cultures love to idealize medieval history)
Most other periods of Chinese history are either a) poorly recorded or b) them getting BTFO by invaders.
1 year ago
Anonymous
For Japan, unless you're talking pre-Nara period I don't agree with you. The Shoku Nihongi for instance covers the 8th century court activity at a pretty good level of detail, down to the things like the emperor sending out a message to the bureaucrats apologizing that they have to work in hot summer temperatures and detailing plans to commission monks to pray for cooler weather. Various bits of incidental military details get recorded to, like numbers and identities of people being sent off to man forts on the Emishi frontier. It's a lot better documented than many of the cultures who do appear in FOG 2.
China I don't agree with you on documentation (how could you think that? Their document production is immense), but you sure are right with the hyper-focus on Three Kingdoms. I'm much more of a Tang-Five Dynasties-Song guy myself.
>shit posted about a Empires sequel with medi >shit posted name Kingdoms >kingdoms comes out
>shit post about Kadesh and the HIttites >swifter than eagles
I must believe they lurk. Thank you Slitherine. Easily the most hyped I've been for a FoGII DLC. I went wild over Rise of Swiss too. Sincerely the best periods. Surely the best DLC.
Yeah definitely give it a shot, the different systems like decadence and the way buildings and trade work are totally unique, but they all work together well. I'd say it reminds me of Oriental Empires in terms of how unique it is among strategy games, and a good deal less janky too
Yeah especially for the trade mechanics you basically need to look at the community steam guide for Oriental Empires, it's not explained well in game at all. And the combat is what it is, just a total jankfest where you hope your troops do what you set them to do
played since beta
Good game, unique take for a GS
Works best with FoG2. Don't auto-resolve any battle that isn't absolutely guaranteed to be a stompout.
Different countries play differently but in the end you balance decadence against everything else.
So far I am in love with light chariots. Such a joyful experience.
I'm playing it right now and loving it
Bronze Age is such a kino setting and you never see it in games
I played the Sargon campaign and hardly saw any chariots aside from the heavy donkey crew my own team has. Tons of spearmen and irregulars, over and over again. I probably should have played something from later on the bronze age.
I played Hittite but yeah that's just a sign of the times. As mespotamia rose it lifted up Anatolia. Anate-girla and Egypt were the really prominent chariot bros. I've still only done their campaign but I'm definite you'll get a fun time with chariots if you play Kadesh
I raged because I'm getting my ass kicked in two different mp games. The new battles are fun though.
I raged because I got piled with shit and can't play. I've just got a moment spare so I might give it a go in an hour or two. Will keep you posted if ya want anon. I'll be playing the hell out of Hittite. Certainly going to hit up Kadesh after a bit of a warm up.
And I finally got a moment to install it. Busy week. Reporting in soon with actual thoughts. I really hope I love it. It's one of my favourite periods. I feel spoiled.
Is FOGII:Empires good?
Not a fan of having to buy two games but more interested in the Grand Strategy aspect of Empirebut then being able to actually command the fights in FOG2 sounds cool.
Empire doesn't need FOGII to be good or fun, in fact, there's an argument to be made that it's better without FOGII.
If you want to make the entire campaign one where you complete fights in FOGII you can but it would take a long time - that and you can't use FOGII for sieges which may later become relevant for you.
tl;dr
I love Empires. I love FOGII. You can love them together but you don't need to.
These games get boring to me after a couple maps. It's just the same old shit over and over. This kind of thing would be fun if it was a hobby painting miniatures but it just feels like I'm playing a table top which is lacking strategy or actual warfare simulation.
I can see what you mean but I also like it for the tactical element. You can git gud and when you feel that improvement it is gratifying. Honestly, while I love Empires, I really need them to step up in how they translate strategic units to tactical ones. The Empires abstraction method is fine, I suppose, but I want Kingdoms to be what you're describing. It should be a vehicle for rewarding tactics matches. Empires, especially in end game, rewards people playing with its rules and not FOGII's when you're composing an army. There's also very little choice or control in army composition. You have usually just got the basic units of you culture and provs and those cultural units aren't even accurate to the army list they're general that are translated to the army list.
It's fine but it's not quite right. Still it's what I'd recommend if you're itching for meaning behind the FOGII matches. At least in that way you'll be getting some real up-hill battles.
I tried to fire up the Time Warp module to do a meme battle between the earliest Minoans and the final Byzantine army list. Turns out the time warp module doesn't have the new bronze age crews added to it yet, so I'll have to wait for a patch before I can have my First and Last Greeks showdown.
Does the game feature northerners like bell beakers or the battleaxe culture? I would imagine they'd get bodied by the actual civs but then again I really enjoyed playing the irish and the balts in medieval.
Playing swifter has gotten me back into Empires. I crave context. Can we get thrown a fricking line here with some Empires content for Swifter? I doubt it but I'd appreciate it.
Frick I hope they improve unit creation for Kingdoms. They just need to make the unit construction provide a little more control and let sieges resolve in FOGII somehow and it'd be GOAT
Oh and maybe rip of the quantified diplomacy from Endless Legend. I hate percentage based abusable diplo >but muh multi
Percentages are still a stop gap to simulate a real player. You might as well just commit to diplo points and have SP make sense with a toggle for if you want playable factions to use them in talks with each other. For real.
Won't happen. Empires would have to extend the start time too much. 90% of the map would be barbarian tribes.
Not saying it wouldn't be interesting, just that it won't happen.
Just shrink the map. They already have certain regions/provinces that only become accessibly after a certain period of time. Just black out all the irrelevant shit. There's no good reason for Empires to exist and not span the entire ancient lineup. It's fine Medi has its own stuff despite being considered FOG1 in FOG1 but you know? I spit on total war but having each game build into the next was a somewhat inspired idea. Where's our Swifter to Swiss Empires/Kingdoms scenario? All they would need to do is add in a era shifting mechanic and it basically plays itself. Maybe allow the player an opportunity to shift their glory into new nations across eras too. I like that you can swap on the fly and that the ''proper" nations appear from barbs depending on the era but letting the player shift without mechanically hamstringing would be necessary for long form play, I think. It would be weird to have nations last the entire span when they are meant to rise and fall. Like sure "rome" exists as a nation but lets not pretend it didn't shift fundamentally multiple times in the same way Egypt or Macedonia do.
You're right though, it won't happen but I could rant all day about what cool things they could add. The base game has/had so much potential.
not hyped but i considered jumping back in to check it out
I will now buy your game
I saw there is quite a lot of DLC. Are they all different thematic scenarios?
They add historical battles, campaigns and new playable troop rosters for random battles.
I was kind of suprised that they are doing FoG2 DLCs again, did FoG2 Medieval DLCs not sell well enough or what?
I personally find the ancient era more interesting, and I think a lot of the dusty old people who like this sort of thing do as well
People with taste love This shit.
Tell me which FoG content you liked most so I can judge you.
It's time to fix history.
Not him, but I liked Rise of the Swiss a lot. Also the Alt-History Alexander campaign was fun.
Frick. I loved rise of the swiss (as much or more than swifter) and while Alexander isn't my absolute favourite figure (more like second or third), of course I love him. You pass.
Tbh, Bronze Age is the only era original FoG 2 didnt touch
I think Pike&Shot 2 is coming next or maybe some chink dlc
>I think Pike&Shot 2 is coming next
I just want Fields of Glory Napoleon, is it too much to ask for?
>I just want Fields of Glory Napoleon
We all do anon. They could release DLC for every single coalition war and I wouldn't give a frick because you know it would be top tier content
>chink dlc
Shit I'd be down for that, you don't often see games that let you put greeks against the ancient qin in pitched battles.
There's a mod that adds Ancient China and India that let's you do just that
I am a bit curious why they're going back all the way to the bronze age (lots of conjecture and spearmen/warriors), but can't find it in them to do an official East Asia DLC for FOG2 or Medieval. Sengoku Jidai worked very well, but I understand it was more of a sanctioned mod built from Pike and Shot.
>conjecture
It's not like Sumeria/Babylon/Hittite/Egypt don't have records. Look at the epic battles. We have a pretty good understanding of Kadesh.
Other fun stuff is Hittite having more advanced metallurgy - but I doubt they'll fold that into unit stats or anything.
Frankly I don't care about East Asia, it gets plenty of attention already and isn't there already a series at Slith covering it?
Having written records is one thing, but not every literate culture left behind a corpus detailed enough about their way of war to represent them at the level of fidelity FOG aspires to. The battle of Kadesh may be an outlier, but let's take Sargon - he has a campaign in this upcoming DLC. What's our level of information about his army? There's a textual passage saying that he had a retinue of warriors that he fed everyday (maybe a "picked" warriors unit in FOG terms). For weapons and tactics, we're reliant on archaeology and some ancient art, which show some good evidence to support FOG having spearmen, light infantry, and war wagons/early chariots for Sargon and other factions in the region. I don't believe there's any extant writings that narrate any of his battles at a tactical level.
The above isn't bad per se, and you could have fun playing a series of battles against Sargon's various opponents. But, it's not nearly the level of detail that we have about the army and campaigns of say Alexios Komnenus who has a campaign in Medieval. For him we have detailed info on forces, campaigns, and battles. If you did East Asia, the level of detail available in the records is similarly abundant, and you'd have a bunch of options for Chinese and Japanese campaigns with a high level of fidelity.
I like the period and am excited to play even a hypothetical battle in it. It's just that simple. While much of it is mired in conjecture the period itself was documented so it's not as if it's all historical fantasy as would be the case in other eras and locales.
You have already tacitly admitted that Kadesh was well documented and understood. In fact, if we're getting into the weeds on this there are still a great many unknowns in other ancient eras. For all the documentation of rome we're still supposing certain things about the composition of their baggage train and accompaniments. Of course there's a subjective limit for how much supposition we can stomach but for me Swifter is still within the realm OUTSIDE OF THE SEA PEOPLE.
Funny you'd complain about Sargon and then leave the fact we have army lists for a literally unknown faction.
>it gets plenty of attention already
It is very laser-focused though, you never see games about the Yamato period or anything besides late Han/Three Kingdoms for Japan and China, respectively.
Lets be honest. There's more of that than there is of super early ancient era stuff. Can you even name a game with Hittite in it outside swifter?
Age of Empires I, though to be fair ancient China and Japan are also in it.
Sounds like we suffer together then. Here's hoping you get your game. It's not my scene so I don't know but can't they DLC it into one of the far east games they already have?
What do they have besides Sengoku Jidai? The scope on that one is too narrow to accomodate these.
It may be beyond their scope, but I'd like to see the ancient far east in FoG II, honestly, since *that* is the game about antiquity, but I am more than happy just seeing more Bronze Age stuff for once.
Not quite the same, I am not much for mods.
Civ... 3 had them. Granted, Hittites make appearances rarely. Their role in history is more compartmentalized and bounded in time than China, Japan, etc. though.
The thing about Japan is that the historical record is really sparse.
For China, it's more a case that the Chinese culture is utterly enamored with the three kingdoms (much like how western cultures love to idealize medieval history)
Most other periods of Chinese history are either a) poorly recorded or b) them getting BTFO by invaders.
For Japan, unless you're talking pre-Nara period I don't agree with you. The Shoku Nihongi for instance covers the 8th century court activity at a pretty good level of detail, down to the things like the emperor sending out a message to the bureaucrats apologizing that they have to work in hot summer temperatures and detailing plans to commission monks to pray for cooler weather. Various bits of incidental military details get recorded to, like numbers and identities of people being sent off to man forts on the Emishi frontier. It's a lot better documented than many of the cultures who do appear in FOG 2.
China I don't agree with you on documentation (how could you think that? Their document production is immense), but you sure are right with the hyper-focus on Three Kingdoms. I'm much more of a Tang-Five Dynasties-Song guy myself.
The dev said the fog 2: medieval content is mostly complete, since he didn't want to expand past 1500.
>since he didn't want to expand past 1500.
Frick, there goes my dream of obligating knigghots with a proper gunline
just play Troy Total War bro
"no games set in the bronze age" thread spammer eternally BTFO
What about Hegemony?
Hegemony is not in the Bronze Age
*blocks h*br*ws path*
>armored superior medium foot with swordsman poa
Damn
>mycenaeans
>hittites
>philistines
Aryan bros we eatin good
yeah i think im down for this one. Will be my first FoG dlc too
>shit posted about a Empires sequel with medi
>shit posted name Kingdoms
>kingdoms comes out
>shit post about Kadesh and the HIttites
>swifter than eagles
I must believe they lurk. Thank you Slitherine. Easily the most hyped I've been for a FoGII DLC. I went wild over Rise of Swiss too. Sincerely the best periods. Surely the best DLC.
I still cant do the siege of Kruje in medieval so buying any other dlc will probably just add more content I cant complete.
last page save rave
Soon
any news?
It's in closed beta right now
cannot fricking wait
I bought FoG2 and Empires a while back but never gave it enough of a shot.
Anyone play Empires here?
Yeah definitely give it a shot, the different systems like decadence and the way buildings and trade work are totally unique, but they all work together well. I'd say it reminds me of Oriental Empires in terms of how unique it is among strategy games, and a good deal less janky too
>Oriental Empires
Glad I am not the only one in this board who played it. I never got to wrap my head around that game, though.
Yeah especially for the trade mechanics you basically need to look at the community steam guide for Oriental Empires, it's not explained well in game at all. And the combat is what it is, just a total jankfest where you hope your troops do what you set them to do
I play Empires. I love it. I'm an SP newb though.
played since beta
Good game, unique take for a GS
Works best with FoG2. Don't auto-resolve any battle that isn't absolutely guaranteed to be a stompout.
Different countries play differently but in the end you balance decadence against everything else.
FoG games are on sale, including Empires.
it's out
yep, and it's kino
it is beautiful
>dlc releases
>thread dies
I raged because I'm getting my ass kicked in two different mp games. The new battles are fun though.
I played the Sargon campaign and hardly saw any chariots aside from the heavy donkey crew my own team has. Tons of spearmen and irregulars, over and over again. I probably should have played something from later on the bronze age.
I played Hittite but yeah that's just a sign of the times. As mespotamia rose it lifted up Anatolia. Anate-girla and Egypt were the really prominent chariot bros. I've still only done their campaign but I'm definite you'll get a fun time with chariots if you play Kadesh
I raged because I got piled with shit and can't play. I've just got a moment spare so I might give it a go in an hour or two. Will keep you posted if ya want anon. I'll be playing the hell out of Hittite. Certainly going to hit up Kadesh after a bit of a warm up.
And I finally got a moment to install it. Busy week. Reporting in soon with actual thoughts. I really hope I love it. It's one of my favourite periods. I feel spoiled.
So far I am in love with light chariots. Such a joyful experience.
I'm playing it right now and loving it
Bronze Age is such a kino setting and you never see it in games
Bronze age is always kino
Is FOGII:Empires good?
Not a fan of having to buy two games but more interested in the Grand Strategy aspect of Empirebut then being able to actually command the fights in FOG2 sounds cool.
Empire doesn't need FOGII to be good or fun, in fact, there's an argument to be made that it's better without FOGII.
If you want to make the entire campaign one where you complete fights in FOGII you can but it would take a long time - that and you can't use FOGII for sieges which may later become relevant for you.
tl;dr
I love Empires. I love FOGII. You can love them together but you don't need to.
These games get boring to me after a couple maps. It's just the same old shit over and over. This kind of thing would be fun if it was a hobby painting miniatures but it just feels like I'm playing a table top which is lacking strategy or actual warfare simulation.
That's all games though.
I find the gameplay loop very appealing personally.
I can see what you mean but I also like it for the tactical element. You can git gud and when you feel that improvement it is gratifying. Honestly, while I love Empires, I really need them to step up in how they translate strategic units to tactical ones. The Empires abstraction method is fine, I suppose, but I want Kingdoms to be what you're describing. It should be a vehicle for rewarding tactics matches. Empires, especially in end game, rewards people playing with its rules and not FOGII's when you're composing an army. There's also very little choice or control in army composition. You have usually just got the basic units of you culture and provs and those cultural units aren't even accurate to the army list they're general that are translated to the army list.
It's fine but it's not quite right. Still it's what I'd recommend if you're itching for meaning behind the FOGII matches. At least in that way you'll be getting some real up-hill battles.
I tried to fire up the Time Warp module to do a meme battle between the earliest Minoans and the final Byzantine army list. Turns out the time warp module doesn't have the new bronze age crews added to it yet, so I'll have to wait for a patch before I can have my First and Last Greeks showdown.
Does the game feature northerners like bell beakers or the battleaxe culture? I would imagine they'd get bodied by the actual civs but then again I really enjoyed playing the irish and the balts in medieval.
Playing swifter has gotten me back into Empires. I crave context. Can we get thrown a fricking line here with some Empires content for Swifter? I doubt it but I'd appreciate it.
Frick I hope they improve unit creation for Kingdoms. They just need to make the unit construction provide a little more control and let sieges resolve in FOGII somehow and it'd be GOAT
Oh and maybe rip of the quantified diplomacy from Endless Legend. I hate percentage based abusable diplo
>but muh multi
Percentages are still a stop gap to simulate a real player. You might as well just commit to diplo points and have SP make sense with a toggle for if you want playable factions to use them in talks with each other. For real.
Won't happen. Empires would have to extend the start time too much. 90% of the map would be barbarian tribes.
Not saying it wouldn't be interesting, just that it won't happen.
Just shrink the map. They already have certain regions/provinces that only become accessibly after a certain period of time. Just black out all the irrelevant shit. There's no good reason for Empires to exist and not span the entire ancient lineup. It's fine Medi has its own stuff despite being considered FOG1 in FOG1 but you know? I spit on total war but having each game build into the next was a somewhat inspired idea. Where's our Swifter to Swiss Empires/Kingdoms scenario? All they would need to do is add in a era shifting mechanic and it basically plays itself. Maybe allow the player an opportunity to shift their glory into new nations across eras too. I like that you can swap on the fly and that the ''proper" nations appear from barbs depending on the era but letting the player shift without mechanically hamstringing would be necessary for long form play, I think. It would be weird to have nations last the entire span when they are meant to rise and fall. Like sure "rome" exists as a nation but lets not pretend it didn't shift fundamentally multiple times in the same way Egypt or Macedonia do.
You're right though, it won't happen but I could rant all day about what cool things they could add. The base game has/had so much potential.