Yesterday I was running session as normal, the party having just finished an extensive dungeon that took us ~3 weeks. On their way home they were ambushed by an hostile gang. Before hostilities started they and the party had a brief conversation.
I had a few points I wanted to hit with that scene because the enemy gang is directly tied to one of the PC's families. Unfortunately I missed one of the points I wanted to hit, got nervous (for a variety of reasons, real life has hit me like a ton of bricks lately) and then messed it up further. After session I asked a player privately and they said it was fine and they didn't really notice but I feel like shit about messing it up.
Luckily the parts I missed didn't impact the overall information conveyed in the scene, but left gaps. I didn't have a set game plan for the scene, just a few bullet points I wanted to hit, but it still felt shit not getting to them. Really the issue was when I missed a bullet point I tried improvising to get back to it and made it worse.
How often do you all mess things up? I know there will be some shitposters who are angry at the idea I had a game plan going into a scene at all, but really I just had points I wanted to hit
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The points I missed were:
>how they found the party to ambush them in that alley
>exactly what the enemy was offering the party member to join them (I knew the party member would never accept any way, but it made the villain come off as WAY more egotistical)
>The points I missed were:
>>how they found the party to ambush them in that alley
what the enemy was offering the party member to join them (I knew the party member would never accept any way, but it made the villain come off as WAY more egotistical)
the first one isn't that important, people can assume the gang has informants and people looking out for likely targets and such
the second one is a little more important but not that huge a deal since you did say it didn't impact the overall information conveyed
>How often do you all mess things up?
a lot but it's not a huge deal since I have a bunch of points that contribute to how characters will react to the players and influence the overall direction of things
if I miss some, I'll hit others
I'd have to mess up pretty big to miss all of them since most of them are pretty general
they're like "if people piss this guy off" or "if they offer support" or "if they just don't bother with this" followed by "that npc will then try to do this"
Thanks, you're right, it isn't a huge deal.
I'll slip in the detail next session. They're in combat with the gang and the spirit with the gang can say something to tell them how they were found.
Hell, for the reason of how they found them you can make it a post-combat subquest. Someone might have leaked their intel, and that leak needs to be stopped. Figure out where the loose info came from, etc. Make it into more content rather than exposition
It was literally the demon with the gang told them because the demon was able to see the moment one of the party members activated the fortune telling blood crystal.
Then that's actually something you can keep quiet, because that means if the PCs don't know about it then they won't predict it a second time. It wouldn't be something that anyone would squeal about immediately because it ruins future chances with the same option. Don't teach your prey how to avoid your traps, let them learn the hard way.
At least one of them would be expecting something now too. Not a bad opportunity here.
You shouldn’t have given them the first point anyway. It’s best to let your players think for themselves, sometimes they come with the wildest theories.
>How often do you all mess things up?
ceaselessly. actually now that i think about it i basically never frick up ever since i cant find the time to run any games. maybe its for the best...
I know that feeling brother.
I'm a GM in an exalted game
I mess up... often, but I'd argue that I'm also pretty good at taking it in strides.
example:
>players get a quest to sneak into a ruined city that just got kaiju'd (due to the players screwing up previously)
>they have to find an underground tomb old some old city priests and steal something
>they get to it, its a demonic idol that glows eerily
>my plan as GM was for the players to get invested in figuring out why the tomb of a venerable city priest had a demonic idol in it
>that is SO not what happened
>the idol gave off toxic demonic radiance, so a simple check to avoid getting sick from it was needed
>two of four PCs fail
>uhm... wait, they fail?
>suddenly the quest gets sidetracked as they panic and rush to get cured, and they only know one magical healing spot that'll talk to them, so they end up in debt to that place...
>I have to come up with a suitable payment for the debt: Arrange for a canal/tunnel to get built through a mountain range so that river trade that expand beyond the range for hilarious profit
>cue nearly two years of RL game sessions on doing various quests and whatnot to actually do that
sweet jesus... had not seen that coming.
Proud of you, AnonGM. Hope you've been having fun as well as your players.
>How Often
Not often, my plans are usually laid out extensively and then I ignore them and use improvisation + my memory of plans in order to work around any mistakes I might have made. I suppose I do make mistakes often since most GM's do but I have the confidence to carry on regardless or just tell the party that they were also meant to get such and such piece of information post game.
Unless they are passive aggressive about something and then proceed to hint their displeasure it should never be a bad sign that they didn't say anything or notice. You were really into it and then got butterflies in your stomach when you realized you messed up, thats all. When this happens the best two solutions is, first always to slip that detail in later to come up during the relevant future encounters (or raid since these are gangsters). Second, talk about previous stuff to jog everyone's memories or have a scene where they talk things out to figure out the plot so you understand how they perceive everything for you to note down.
Good job, btw.
If I ever miss something I think is big, I'll follow up with my players before the next session starts. Information is occasionally important for players and even if the players don't use the new info, I'm happy to give them potential tools anyways. I've started slowing down my speech and it seems to allow my players a better chance to "see" the scene.
>the parts I missed didn't impact the overall information conveyed in the scene, but left gaps
Cheer up, you fricked the pacing a bit, it happens.
Can you introduce an other scene, something short that will have to be left for after they've solved whatever your players are doing, that will let you give them the missing info?
I mess up every now and then. I'd say I messed up the way you describe about a handful of times over the course of my current campaign (we're on session 51 now and it's been going on for 2 years).
First off, I think you messing up is a bigger deal for you than your players. Secondly, unless you somehow conveyed contrary information, it's not that hard to recover.
I think the best way to recover is to distill the information down to what you want to convey and then reintroduce it some other way. So if you wanted to reveal that the enemy gang is actually trying to kidnap the pc and bring him back to the family (for example, I don't know what it is you wanted to convey), have another gang member come about later and try to do just that. Basically, use the information you omitted to create a new plot hook somewhere down the road.
Point is, don't overthink it. You probably didn't mess up as bad as you feel you did. And if you did, just recover from it by incorporating your mistakes into future sessions.
I didnt realize this thread existed, Ctrl+c,Ctrl+v what i said from another thread:
"At what point do you guys feel like you're not a good DM or maybe your players are shit? I've ran various different settings, various different systems, but every time my game generally dies within like 10 sessions. These same players would then turn around and play, what I think, is an absolute homebrew garbage fire of stories that make 0 canonical sense.
at what point is it easier to say that you are a bad/mediocre dm vs having bad/mediocre players?"
I can go into several of the stories for my game or others as examples if people need to hear some of the shit i have had to deal with
Find different players and rule out the common denominator. You have to understand that some dms work better for some players. Even if they're playing what you consider to be "garbage homebrew", it's fun to them and that's what matters.
Also, as someone who is a forever DM, I can tell you right now that if you want players that stick around, you have to read them and play to their expectations. It's sort of like doing competitive speech and debate, if you've ever done something like that. You have to shape your argument/speech around the judge's biases. Similarly, if you want players to stick around, you have to run something that they would consider to be fun.
If you can't stomach that, you need to find players who will find what you DO want to run to be fun. You will have to do some more legwork in finding players, but it is possible to do this.
Lastly, with no other additional information, if you absolutely must play with these players, try to view what they're doing in the most charitable light and figure out what exactly they find fun about the world. Is it the high powered setting? Maybe calibrate your own game to be more high powered. Is it the extensive list of npcs? Is it the wacky combat? Try to be objective and figure out what is positive about this other game and emulate that.
Stellar advice. Reading players is the NUMBER ONE skill for any GM. You can get away with absolute bullshit 1d6 freestyle game but if you read the table right it can become the most memorable experience for them. People are too focused on rules, systems and setting while ignoring their actual softskills of running the game.
This. Each player has fun in a different way and if you manage to udnerstand that, they're gonna stay at the table.
A trick I read online and use that works wonderfully is to ask each player in private for 3 things they wanna find along the campaign. Usually it's an item they want, a situation to find themselves in and something extra, like an NPC, a specific enemy, etc. These have to be undefined so "Magic sword that shoots beams" but not "Murasama the longest katana".
Then, based on what each player asks, you web something that ties it all together.
For example, in one campaign, the champion fighter asked "to fight a giant colossus", while the artificier wantes a way to make his Steel defender fly (a robotic pelican). Eventually, they find a "giant, massive clockwork colossus in the shape of a warrior". Before I can even describe how it takes out a massive sword, the fighter is already front line, challenging the colossus. The colossus could hoover thanks to some itnernal balloons, like a zeppelin. Afterwards, due battle damage, I mention how his had falls leaving his entrails open, which the artificier checks and asks if he can take anything for the steel defender. Tell him that, with time, work and a proper craftstation (back to their base), there could be a way to adapt the zeppelins for his steel defender. So they start a journey back, carrying the corpse of the colossus, fighter smiling and flaunting how he smashed the colossus, the artificier player coming up with ideas on what to do once the steel defender can fly.
And best of all is that they made half of the work for me, got what they wanted but the expectation of when, how and finally archieving it made the whole thing fun as frick.
truly excellent advice
At no point. There different tastes for different people. If you are not having fun or your players then probably your visions for the game are not comparable.
I used to get bored with campaigns 5 sessions in. Same for most of the people I knew that played DnD. Turned out it is not ttrpgs, but DnD in general. Since I started GMing my own rules light system we have been having a blast. People that hated RP games militantly now spam the group channel and get depressed when me have to miss a session. Our sessions extended from 4 hours tops to 10-12 hours. It is all about taste. zaomw people have fun with crunchy wargames like DnD. I don't. My players don't. But a friend GM runs DnD RAW, and they never speak on character and pretty much only fight monsters and from what I can hear they are having a blast. Now to me this sounds like a nightmare. So I would never play in such a group. But that does not mean he sucks as a GM. Just that we have different tastes.
The problem with DnD is that the game breaks down if you play in a way the designers did not intend you to play it. Just try freestyle and free your mind from the toxic fandoy mindset and corporate propaganda. Your mojo will be back guarantied.
I used DnD as an example but this applies to any system (most are overly complex and falsely presume they are proper mechanical system and not adult pretend game). It is not the system it is what emotions the GAME envokes in players.
Focus on what you like:
Combat
Dramatic Characters
Deep Lore
Whatever
And build a game around it. Hell, it can be a game with no combat mechanics. Just good old toombriding, solving ancient purrels and traps and occasionally running from a mummy or two. Sounds like fun to me.
All the time. Players never notice. Good times are had. Don't sweat it.
dont worry too much about missing points you want to get to in the scene. IDK how you organize your notes, but I would avoid box text(stuff you directly read from your notes/a book) and just focus on 3-4 bullet points if there is stuff you want to be really specific about.
Bullets points work best,
An NPC that hung out with the party (controlled in combat by a player, with a small and simple set of actions he could do, and not stepping on anyone's toes in social situations. I've learned my lesson about GMPCs) that the players kinda liked was supposed to die in a certain "scene" but I forgot about it. I had to go:
>shit guys I'm sorry but I forgot something very important. To rewind time back a little:
and then I narrated how he went out. It's hard to gauge how things resonate with the players, but I felt it hit them right in the feels with how sudden and unexpected it was, even though everyone knew in advance he came there to die. It probably went better than if I had remembered to do it at the right time.
I'm not saying all mistakes can be made to be net positives instead, but what the GM feels is and isn't a mistake is irrelevant, since the real failure is if the players and the GM don't enjoy themselves. Focusing on small scale failures usually results in the much more important, large scale stuff getting neglected. "The players need to realize that if they ever meet this dragon, they will be killed" is a larger scale thing you must not fail to communicate to the players, since a BS TPK with no foreshadowing is unenjoyable. "This NPC needs to tell the players how his stronger-than-the-PCs friends got wiped out instantly by the dragon" is one way to do it, but forgetting to mention that as a GM doesn't mean you failed at your larger scale goal. It might even be an opportunity to go "frick it", and change your method and timing of telling about the dragon's danger entirely, really surprise them with it in some dramatic twist later.
Honestly if you're that worried by GMing maybe playing would be more your bag. Ad libbing and papering over wiener ups is part of it.
I mea up every game & I stayed in 1985. You will frick something up every game. Just keep things running SMOOTH. Nowadays pacing is everything. Groan, berate yourself to do better next time (it works) then move on! Quickly!
I mess up every game & I started in 1985*
Sorry about that. Messing up is inevitable. Get used to it & don't stress over it
Messed up last session
>players were going on an important mission
>npc was supposed to talk to one of them and ask a favor
>completely forgot about it
>made the npc have business close buy so they ran into each other later and he did it there
Some times isn't that hard to fix
I run pure sandbox games. I have all the world events, NPCs and lore but the story is up to the players. All my frickups have turned into amazing storylines.
Remember only you know you fricked up since only you have a "story" in mind. If you run liniar adventures then it is a problem down the line. But my advice is move away from such training wheels as you gain XP as a GM.