Should clarify I'm asking about your player characters, not worldbuilding, I meant to type is instead of are but I didn't because I'm just stupid I guess.
My cleric's faith is wavering at the moment and he's considering fricking off from his church to join this cool as shit monk order we met in an island last session
Clerics (as in the character class) get their powers from their god.
Priests, bishops, acolytes, etc aren't necessarily clerics as in the character class, even though irl they'd be counted as clerics.
Yeah 5e is moronic and I should play something else, but it does make sense that not every priest can get superpowers.
Their level is dependent on their faith. Their God has gotten them this far. Losing faith will result in their spells and healing getting weaker, completely ceasing if they walk away all together.
That makes for a boring setting where religious dissent is impossible. Much better if the power a cleric wields was entrusted to them, either by direct gift of their god, or preferably instilled in a ritual ordination by other clerics. If they use that spark of divine power to become a mighty theurgist then great, but there's no guarantee they won't defect to another faith if they have some kind of crisis. The gods can't just take back their gifts in such a case, though a scorned god is likely to answer with some kind of nasty curse.
I don't hate my job. It's easier than working the fields and it comes with free lodging and the rituals seem to make people feel better. If there is a God, he's got bigger things to worry about than whether I'm being devout enough, what with the state of the world these days. You want to get me fired, you can talk to the bishop.
I don't hate my job. It's easier than working the fields and it comes with free lodging and the rituals seem to make people feel better. If there is a God, he's got bigger things to worry about than whether I'm being devout enough, what with the state of the world these days. You want to get me fired, you can talk to the bishop.
It is not remotely a common state of affairs that people with a direct line to a divine being and superpowers granted to them just treat it like a job.
Of course they would. Settings for D&D and similar routinely depict village priests able to cast minor magic. Very few have the capability to directly commune with their god. Most of them no doubt are pious and grateful for the miraculous powers they can use, but of course you're going to get a bit blase about the things you use every day.
I don't get why are you guys getting so worked up when anon didn't say anything wrong neither as an opinion nor as a real life take.
All he's saying is that he's diferentiating the cleric as a job, like a priest, from the cleric as a TTRPG class.
The former did go as he said, it was a job. A job usually taken by people of faith, but people still, meaning many could fall to degeneracy, get lazy or pretend to get the job. I'm surprised you all reacted so much when the corrupt/lazy priest is a classic trope too, showing it has happened enough in history to become an archetype of their own.
My town has a catholic school run by an order of nuns and a church of monks. The nuns got into trouble with townsfolk for wearing expensive branded clothing, but also were called out (and praised now) for openly accepting homosexuals even into marriage in the 90's. The monks make and drink a lot of wine, not uncommon to find one at a bar playing cards or something (not gambling, tho).
Again, before men of faith, priest are human first and foremost. Sometimes people's behavior changes due their faith, sometimes they use their actions to hide their changes in faith. Same way people says "do you trully love someone if you've never argued with them?", many also say "do you trully believe in something if you never doubt it?".
Also I personally always found the "Gods talk to clerics" very stupid beyond endgame levels. Had that been the case I think society would be much more different. Instead, gods are like investors walking around, giving money to those people they think are on the right track. There is no conversation, no chances for the cleric to reply, just the realization that this behavior will get their atention and blessings, as long as it's honest.
>The monks make and drink a lot of wine, not uncommon to find one at a bar playing cards or something
Monks drinking a whole fricking lot isn't even a historically uncommon occurrence, those guys practically invented half the winemaking techniques we have
Extremely so. You have to understand, faith is not superstition. Clerics feel the presence of their God. They channel his power to work miracles. His eyes are always on them, and he's always backing them up.
This would make you feel like a million bucks. You are literally one of God's chosen, sent to minister to His flock. His power is in you, and you prove your holiness every time he answers your prayers.
I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't go all-in on that. Like, most spellcasting Clerics would be absolutely dedicated, probably a bit smug, because everything they believe in is true.
Not actually playing a cleric, you don't need to be a cleric to be devoted to a god. And my hobgoblin PC is incredibly devoted to her goddess: Sigri the Tyrant, overlord of goblinkind. There's some amount of conflict because her god is Lawful Evil (like most of her race), but she's Lawful Neutral. She belongs to a monastic sect that preserves the old ways, before the hobgoblins lost their nation and were forced into piracy and raiding to survive. But despite not being so willing to pillage and enslave others for personal gain, as her god condones, she DOES follow Sigri's most important principle: that without power, faith is meaningless. And so even though she isn't a cleric, Sigri has rewarded her piety every time she defeats and dominates others.
>How pious are your clerics?
Very, but he doesn't proselytize. He tries to just be a good example of his faith and if someone is curious about the deity he worships he'll answer their questions.
Very, if they don't follow their faith precepts and mystic practices to the T the cannot cast spells, losing their powers permanently if they stray too much.
>Inb4 reeee not d&deee!
Generally they are pious just as much as their irl appropriate historical counterparts, even the fantasical ones that can do magic (eg: banestorm) unless there's a direct correlation to their sincere behaviour and some consequences inherent to their position/power.
You know, choices & consequences, a thing that was still valued in games circa 15 years ago.
2008 was 15 years and 1 month ago so you can consider yourself borderline right because of 4e bullshit retcons, but going from 3.x and backwards the story was picrel
Raw it is not, the part where they lose their powers temporarily is obviously an interpretation of mine, i use to consider clerical magic a sort of (constant) attunement to a divine source of power, but i wouldn't ever go straight to loss of power because, for example, the cleric couldn't do the mantra ceremony that day, but after a considerable amount of misbehaviours there was a certain chance of that happening.
I delayed the session because my autistic death cleric wanted to bury all the bodies of a massacre the party encountered (it was supposed to be a story hook.)
Isn't that more of a grave cleric thing to do?
Death cleric might be fine with leaving the bodies around to lighten the job for necromancers in the area
He was initially going to be such an extreme fundamentalist that he'd cause problems everywhere we went in his efforts to eradicate heresy and disbelief, but the DMs wife turned out to be an aspirational murder hobo so I had to turn him into a pragmatist immediately to mitigate her desire to try and kill anyone who didn't treat her like the fricking queen
Should clarify I'm asking about your player characters, not worldbuilding, I meant to type is instead of are but I didn't because I'm just stupid I guess.
story beggar thread?
Very, showing devotion to the patron at every opportunity.
Dunno.
Piety doesn't affect gameplay in my games.
My cleric's faith is wavering at the moment and he's considering fricking off from his church to join this cool as shit monk order we met in an island last session
Very. I don't like the idea of gods choosing a non-believer, bordering on areligious, person as their chosen.
Gods don't choose clerics, they're ordained by a faith.
Clerics (as in the character class) get their powers from their god.
Priests, bishops, acolytes, etc aren't necessarily clerics as in the character class, even though irl they'd be counted as clerics.
Yeah 5e is moronic and I should play something else, but it does make sense that not every priest can get superpowers.
They're based on me being raised Catholic, sssooo...
Same, but I only had the pope evil. All the clerics actually believed what they were preaching.
like so pious
Their level is dependent on their faith. Their God has gotten them this far. Losing faith will result in their spells and healing getting weaker, completely ceasing if they walk away all together.
That makes for a boring setting where religious dissent is impossible. Much better if the power a cleric wields was entrusted to them, either by direct gift of their god, or preferably instilled in a ritual ordination by other clerics. If they use that spark of divine power to become a mighty theurgist then great, but there's no guarantee they won't defect to another faith if they have some kind of crisis. The gods can't just take back their gifts in such a case, though a scorned god is likely to answer with some kind of nasty curse.
You fall.
Unpious clerics are the laziest and gayest subversion you can do.
It's just a job, anon.
>"god, I hate my job"
>"okay then, you're fired," -god
I don't hate my job. It's easier than working the fields and it comes with free lodging and the rituals seem to make people feel better. If there is a God, he's got bigger things to worry about than whether I'm being devout enough, what with the state of the world these days. You want to get me fired, you can talk to the bishop.
>you can talk to the bishop.
Clerics do not get their divine powers from the church.
You might be right, I'm not a theologian. I do know the Church pays my wages though.
You must be at least 18 to use this website
You immediately proved him right.
It's not even a subversion, it's just a common state of affairs.
It is not remotely a common state of affairs that people with a direct line to a divine being and superpowers granted to them just treat it like a job.
Of course they would. Settings for D&D and similar routinely depict village priests able to cast minor magic. Very few have the capability to directly commune with their god. Most of them no doubt are pious and grateful for the miraculous powers they can use, but of course you're going to get a bit blase about the things you use every day.
I don't get why are you guys getting so worked up when anon didn't say anything wrong neither as an opinion nor as a real life take.
All he's saying is that he's diferentiating the cleric as a job, like a priest, from the cleric as a TTRPG class.
The former did go as he said, it was a job. A job usually taken by people of faith, but people still, meaning many could fall to degeneracy, get lazy or pretend to get the job. I'm surprised you all reacted so much when the corrupt/lazy priest is a classic trope too, showing it has happened enough in history to become an archetype of their own.
My town has a catholic school run by an order of nuns and a church of monks. The nuns got into trouble with townsfolk for wearing expensive branded clothing, but also were called out (and praised now) for openly accepting homosexuals even into marriage in the 90's. The monks make and drink a lot of wine, not uncommon to find one at a bar playing cards or something (not gambling, tho).
Again, before men of faith, priest are human first and foremost. Sometimes people's behavior changes due their faith, sometimes they use their actions to hide their changes in faith. Same way people says "do you trully love someone if you've never argued with them?", many also say "do you trully believe in something if you never doubt it?".
Also I personally always found the "Gods talk to clerics" very stupid beyond endgame levels. Had that been the case I think society would be much more different. Instead, gods are like investors walking around, giving money to those people they think are on the right track. There is no conversation, no chances for the cleric to reply, just the realization that this behavior will get their atention and blessings, as long as it's honest.
>The monks make and drink a lot of wine, not uncommon to find one at a bar playing cards or something
Monks drinking a whole fricking lot isn't even a historically uncommon occurrence, those guys practically invented half the winemaking techniques we have
Yeah, weird that anon pointed that out as if it weren't common.
T. Went to two different schools run by monks.
Extremely so. You have to understand, faith is not superstition. Clerics feel the presence of their God. They channel his power to work miracles. His eyes are always on them, and he's always backing them up.
This would make you feel like a million bucks. You are literally one of God's chosen, sent to minister to His flock. His power is in you, and you prove your holiness every time he answers your prayers.
I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't go all-in on that. Like, most spellcasting Clerics would be absolutely dedicated, probably a bit smug, because everything they believe in is true.
Very, obviously. Otherwise they aren't blessed.
What a stupid fricking question.
Not actually playing a cleric, you don't need to be a cleric to be devoted to a god. And my hobgoblin PC is incredibly devoted to her goddess: Sigri the Tyrant, overlord of goblinkind. There's some amount of conflict because her god is Lawful Evil (like most of her race), but she's Lawful Neutral. She belongs to a monastic sect that preserves the old ways, before the hobgoblins lost their nation and were forced into piracy and raiding to survive. But despite not being so willing to pillage and enslave others for personal gain, as her god condones, she DOES follow Sigri's most important principle: that without power, faith is meaningless. And so even though she isn't a cleric, Sigri has rewarded her piety every time she defeats and dominates others.
This is how I imagine clerics
>How pious are your clerics?
Very, but he doesn't proselytize. He tries to just be a good example of his faith and if someone is curious about the deity he worships he'll answer their questions.
Generally very since the occupation selects for servile rule-followers
Very, if they don't follow their faith precepts and mystic practices to the T the cannot cast spells, losing their powers permanently if they stray too much.
>Inb4 reeee not d&deee!
Generally they are pious just as much as their irl appropriate historical counterparts, even the fantasical ones that can do magic (eg: banestorm) unless there's a direct correlation to their sincere behaviour and some consequences inherent to their position/power.
You know, choices & consequences, a thing that was still valued in games circa 15 years ago.
Nah, I've been playing since early 00's and this bullshit was never a thing.
2008 was 15 years and 1 month ago so you can consider yourself borderline right because of 4e bullshit retcons, but going from 3.x and backwards the story was picrel
somehow I don't think negligence of duties would qualify as something that
>grossly violates the code of conduct
this covers active antithetical acts
Raw it is not, the part where they lose their powers temporarily is obviously an interpretation of mine, i use to consider clerical magic a sort of (constant) attunement to a divine source of power, but i wouldn't ever go straight to loss of power because, for example, the cleric couldn't do the mantra ceremony that day, but after a considerable amount of misbehaviours there was a certain chance of that happening.
I wasn't allowed to multiclass, so my wizard is still just a wizard. But he's extremely pious and acts much more like a cleric than like a wizard.
I delayed the session because my autistic death cleric wanted to bury all the bodies of a massacre the party encountered (it was supposed to be a story hook.)
Isn't that more of a grave cleric thing to do?
Death cleric might be fine with leaving the bodies around to lighten the job for necromancers in the area
i meant death god cleric. in the setting the clerics are responsible for killing the undead, but also holding funerals and managing graveyards.
He was initially going to be such an extreme fundamentalist that he'd cause problems everywhere we went in his efforts to eradicate heresy and disbelief, but the DMs wife turned out to be an aspirational murder hobo so I had to turn him into a pragmatist immediately to mitigate her desire to try and kill anyone who didn't treat her like the fricking queen
My artificer is the most religious character in the party. To the point that they thought I was a cleric at first