I don't get Sonic the Hedgehog am I missing something? I'm not talking about the new boost games or the 3D games, I'm talking the universally acclaimed original trilogy. It's a franchise I want to get into as I love the art style and I like speed and platformers. My issue is the gameplay doesn't make sense.
The levels are huge and sprawling with branching paths, but there is no level select. In Chemical Plant zone I could have taken the upper or lower path, so I take the upper path and complete the level. I will have no idea what was on the lower path until I have a subsequent play through of the game, at which point I will have probably forgotten that on my last playthrough I took the upper path.
The incentive to exploring, in my opinion, would be to collect the chaos emeralds, once again in Chemical Plant zone I had over 50 rings and missed a checkpoint, but unfortunately it blocked your path backwards, the game prevents Sonic from running backwards to get things you missed.
So in summary, the game has great controls, graphics and level layouts, but certain questionable decisions mean that you cant explore or enjoy these things.
I feel like I'm missing something classic Sonic is meant to be one of the best series ever but I just don't understand why it gets the praise and reverence it does
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You are supposed to replay it
This.
Zoomers don't understand that video games didn't used to be one-and-done consumer products pushed out in assembly line fashion like a Marvell TV show.
November 14, 1993 Sonic Pinball
November 19, 1993 Sonic CD
February 2, 1994 Sonic 3
Yeah totally not consumer products pushed out in assembly lines :^)
this might shock you anon but games took less time and people and money to develop back then
And they were also way better but it's foolish to think that Pinball and CD are anything but tech demos sold at full price.
I could agree with Pinball but Sonic CD is great?
it's a great tech demo!
For what, CD audio? You know that shit existed before, right?
FMV, 3d motion and vertical speed. The game literally lasts 2 hours. Please stop pretending.
>The game literally lasts 2 hours
Like Sonic 2?
>inb4 no that doesn't count because arbitrary reason
you're a nutter m8
The only classic game that doesn't last 2 hours is S3K, and that's 2 games.
Eh, CD's moreso proof they whould have waited for knuckles to exist.
It's a great knuckles game, but fricking sucks as. a sonic game, not to mention the time travel mechanic being kinda garbage padding.
dunno about spinball but I'm pretty sure CD and 3 were made by different teams
CD was by SoJ
3 was by SoA
Spinball was by STI
1, 2, CD and 3&K were all made by japanese people, regardless of the continent. Spinball is the only one made by americans
Different teams of japonese people, that was his point.
2 and 3K were done by both
Sonic CD has a prototype from December of 1992. I don't think an 11 month development time counts as assembly line.
>spinball
made by a US division separate from Sonic Team
>CD
Had the longest dev time of any megadrive sonic, exclusively made in japan
>3
Had to be split in 2 to release by the deadline, shared both japanese and american staff and was made in the US because it was more convenient
Believe it or not there was a time where Sega was actually attempting to compete in the console market, the nintendo equivalent of this would be something like HAL Laboratory or Monolith helping out in first party games
It's funny to compare:
>Super Mario World: 21 November 1990
>Sonic 1: June 23 1991
>Sonic & Knuckles: October 18, 1994
>Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island: August 5, 1995
And some people don't consider Yoshi's Island a "real" Mario game, meaning the next one would be SM64 on June 23, 1996
People talk about Sonic X-Treme's cancellation causing this terrible gap between S&K and Adventure that harmed the series, but it's comparable to the time between Mario World and Yoshi's Island, and almost exactly the time that's passed since the release of Sonic Forces. Sonic fans were just used to games coming out at an insanely rapid pace for the first 3-4 years.
Sonic 2 has annoying and streamlined level design that you will need to play over and over again to enjoy eventually. People only like that game because of the spindash, Tails, music and basically everything else. Sonic 1, CD, 3K and Mania are much better in regards to exploration imo.
>People only like that game because of the game
I don't think those features completely make up for the worse stuff, like the final bosses and stages, and the hallway-styled level "design". Sonic 1 would have been put over Sonic 2 a lot more if only it had the spindash in it. I think the spindash is a bit overrated anyway, so I like Sonic 1 more personally.
Don't the fan patched versions have level select?
>Sonic 1 Forever
>Sonic 2 Absolute
>Sonic 3 AIR
iirc all of these have level select and a billion other features to make your experience better
Sonic 2 has a built in level select, it's just hidden. Go to Sound Test and play 19, 65, 09, and 17 in that order. Go back to the title screen, hold A and press Start.
Shame the Absolute and Restored devs are autists who require outside mods to undo their shit.
Elaborate, I'm interested. I assume this is partially related to how Hidden Palace Zone was oddly taken out of Sonic 2 Absolute? I only know of that big change though otherwise.
That for Absolute, Restored dev made a new soundtrack and makes you unlock the real one so someone to make a mod for that.
>Restored dev made a new soundtrack and makes you unlock the real one so someone to make a mod for that.
It's called restored, why the frick would you need to unlock something that basic? I'm truly baffled.
Gaming culture was different back then, games were less plentiful and weren't as big so games we're designed to be highly replayable
Also consider that sonic was the sega counter part to mario
Im not reading that
If you dont like it dont play it, who cares
do you not like talking about videogames?
Sonic was always shit. Doom was the best icon of the 90s.
Sonic doesnt have exploration, the routes are skill checks.
Sonic 2 is the WORST classic Sonic game. It's levels are about going fast mindlessly without exploration or platforming (the later levels have bullshit, not platforming) and it also introduced that homosexual b***h c**t redditor beta male pedophile shithead Tails god I want to fricking kill him again and again frick you Tailspedos who spew your garbage on Ganker you will all die!
I don't see what's so questionable about it. Are you one of those completionists that want to do a single perfect play through to see everything in a play through? Branching paths give you different places to explore to keep the game fresh upon replays, that's if you wish to go down that route.
Isn't it the exact same thing in Mario? You're not going to see everything a level has to offer with a single playthrough. There are alternate paths, bonus areas, and you just encounter things as you come across them while having fun controlling the character and playing with the physics. You'll have to replay the game if you want to explore different parts of the same level or if you messed up and didn't get all the special stages or didn't complete them.
Sonics always been shit
what having no mario does to a MF
Classic Sonic are arcade games, you're supposed to replay them and get better each time.
I don't understand how people fail to see this every time
Upper route is a reward for speed, lower route is for dum-dums.
You can access level selection from the title screen by inputting a code.
Whos fricking idea was it to put no rings at all in Death Egg Zone?
The git gud department
They should've at least let the rings from the past zone carry over so you can turn super if you had 50 or more
>but there is no level select
stopped reading right there.
Sonic 2 is the worst of the original trilogy.
That being said, I get what you mean about exploration. You are supposed to find the chaos emeralds but on the first run you have no idea where the bonus stages are (talking about Sonic 3). So basically you have to replay the game many many times and memorize the correct path if you care about getting all the emeralds.
Thats not really an issue because old games were short and made for many replays. But to current players that's probably not very appealing. Still, Sonic is one of the better examples of this. Games like Contra Hard Corps where you die in one hit will literally make you replay a single level until you memorize all the places you're supposed to stand to not die.
>am I missing something?
Soul
I beat Sonic Adventure 1 today, fellow Sonicchads
Shit was incredible
All´s well that ends well
tails thousands of people are dead
If you don't like it you don't like it.
I know what you are trying to do here, op. Go back to Ganker.
Ever play Arcade games?
Dude, Sega was known for making more arcade-like experiences. Sonic is all about that, you keep replaying to get better, you also replay to see new level design you missed before, it just has a huge focus on replayability basically and rewards you more and more with the more knowledge you get about the game. The ultimate mechanical reward being Super Sonic alongside the true ending with all of the emeralds but even beyond that it's supposed to be a speedrunner's mentality also by seeing how fast you can do it, it's why there's a time bonus always. The series is also meant to be very simple as well, so don't think too much about it, simplicity can bloom very great things if handled correctly and I feel classic Sonic did it spectacularly.
I like CD the most
how i wish Knuckles Chaotix didn't exist. Tons of bad console 16 bit Sonic games were cancelled (like the SatAM game) but Chaotix somehow made it to stores
Chaotix is okay. What can you share about the SatAM game?
>Chaotix is okay
it's awful
of all the things you could take a shit on you chose the 32x
bravo
>thinking a shitam game was gonna be good
If it ever released it would be mediocre shovelware like spinball.
1. S3
2. S&K
3. Mania
4. SCD
5. S2
6. S1
Any questions?
No, I'd just swap S1 and S2 is all personally, I know S2 is better in some ways for people but I can't stand how straight forward the level design is for me, also the practically auto-scroller special stages.
I understand, but for me the spindash is such an integral part of classic sonic gameplay that S1 just falls a bit flat for me. But even then I have a lot of fun, at least until I hit Labyrinth. Marble Zone is based as hell, but Labyrinth is just painful to go through even with experience.
based, I like S3 over S3&K too just because I never had the knuckles cartridge as a kid lmao
this song rules btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyoMQg3d5cs
I just prefer the games seperate. S3&K is a pretty long game for a classic Sonic game, and I don't like the feeling of basically having to restart on emeralds after Mushroom Hill if you want to get all 14 emeralds. S&K is funner on it's own, without a save function and Tails it's basically Hard Mode for S3.
All these frickwads in this thread saying "you're supposed to teplay it over and over, THAT'S when it gets fun". If a game isnt fun on a first playthrough, or makes a bad first impression, it is a problem with the game peroid. There me be something good to find in the game eventually, but it doesnt change the fact that it is a real problem, and a genuine issue that holds the classics back from being as great as you claim.
Nobody's saying that
If you didn't have fun the first time playing it that's your problem.
This is the most moronic shit I have ever heard in my life. Is that what you say every time you play a shitty game?
I know you're right, I even knew that when I posted. I guess I'm also just venting against something I hear in a lot of sonic threads.
How is it moronic? How is the game bad just because your stupid ass can't be bothered to learn how to play a game? You need an easy mode?
Christ.
All i said was that if a game makes a bad first impression its an issue with the game. Where did I say I want an easy mode? You homosexuals say all the time that youre SUPPOSED to play the game over and over until you can breeze through it. THEN it truly becomes fun. That's just shitty design period. It doesnt even make it a bad game, but it doesnt change the fact that it is a legitimate criticism of the game.
But regardless, i take even bigger issue with the idiotic claim that "you not having fun is your problem". It is one of weakest responses to a criticism I have ever heard because you arent even trying to address the criticism. I am not going to ignore a games flaws just so I can mindlessly consume products.
Sorry but your experience isn't representative of anyone else's. That is, as a matter of fact, your problem, not the problem with the game.
I don't care about your first impression of the game being bad because it doesn't mean shit to me, like my first impression of the game being good doesn't mean shit to you. The game is not poorly designed just because you can't be fricking bothered to try, and it's damn sure not poorly designed just because you got a bad first impression.
Your entire argument hinges on the fact that it gave you a bad first impression. But it gave me a good first impression. So I'm not sure how that's the game's fault and not a personal problem. You don't like it, play something else.
he is playing something else, it's called 'trolling on Ganker'
If you don't find it enjoyable to lean how to play a game instead of being able to breeze through it out of the gate, then yeah, I'd say that's your problem and not the game's.
And before you give me that bullshit "oh so you think the game is perfect and infallible" strawman, no, I don't, but the game isn't bad just because you don't like having to try.
The comment of replaying the game makes sense in OP's case though since he's pointing out specific things in the game that encourage replayability, it's not about how you need to keep playing the game to have fun eventually just that's how you gain even more enjoyment from it. Personally I found the games fun right away, even in Mania's case when it was new it all just was fun again there as well and I'm talking about the levels with purely new level design in that scenario so you don't misunderstand. OP didn't even say he had a bad time by the way, just that he didn't understand the games and what made them so appealing for people.
2 is my favorite because it was the first one I played.
I think people are more attached to the characters than the games and over the years have just gaslit themselves into thinking the games are good.
Sonic 2 is shit skip it and go straight into S3&K, the actually playable second half makes up for the downgrade in art style
how're we doin, modchads?
>Those awful fan sprites
you mean SOULFUL
No, they are just badly drawn, especially the background tiles.
as a longtime sonic fan, I can tell you S1 is pretty mediocre and can be skipped
S2 is okay, the actual acclaim Classic Sonic has is all due to S3&K
your copmplains about Chemical Plant are because you asssume the drive to explore shit MUST lead into having you exploring everything, but that's not the case. even now in the latest games like Generations you got Red Star rings that serve as further incentive beyond the emeralds, and as evident by their positioning, you're not meant to find literally everything in a single run.
and because this isn't some sort of RPG like Zelda where you carry over progress for a straight month of gameplay, but rather just keep advancing for a few hours until you beat the game and call it a day, you can tell this is an Arcade-style game. as such, you're meant to replay it until you find everything, ando also learn the other routes while exploring.
>The levels are huge and sprawling with branching paths, but there is no level select.
the classic games fricked up by hiding it under some obscure cheat code, but they are all accessible from the get-go. subsequent games all got level select normally.
alternate paths and trying to get a better time is the reason people liked genesis sonic.
devs even put enemies in set areas so you can bounce between them from several screens and do crazy shit.
I smell pasta for some reason
It smells pretty good
Where is the line between something being the game's fault and something being the player's fault?
in a film, the distinction is a lot clearer since it's all about something being there or not. you can't expect the audience to know off-film shit in order to see the film. you also can't expect them to fill in the film's gaps through assumption of post-watch research into the lore, that's stupid.
now with a game, it's not just about everything existing. you need to be able to interact with it properly.
so in regards to your question, the only way to determine that is through context. it depends on what exactly is being blamed.
Sonic 3&K has level select. Or at least the PC port does
it does even on Genesis
The original does as well, but if you play the S&K cart separately from 3 there's no save feature.
All of you are whiny children. Stop whining and play more video games.