I don't hate D&D per se but it just saddens me so greatly how many TTRPGs there are and how much effort is put into this stuff when most of them never really see play and are just forgotten immediately. Is there any real scenario that would even out the RPG field so that it would not be only D&D and its derivates or are we doomed forever to either play D&D or end up no games?
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I always like the look of plant life and stone architecture in old paintings.
Probably stuck with it culturally unless ai gming manages to be viable enough without getting monetized by wotc and does something different enough while becoming wide spread.
So either way its fricked and bad.
>ai gming
We call this a computer game
Not really. A computer game is very limited in what you can and can't do, while for ai gming (if it ever becomes consistent enough to be viable) the goal is likely to have it be something where you can propose and do things that weren't pre-planned and the ai rolls with it and expands on it like similar to regular gm.
>computer game
Sort of, it'll look more like a multiplayer gatcha. There's more money in players than GMs and its easier to monetize, add micro transactions, etc.
Its going to suck and as long as paypigs are able to keep it up it will get worse.
AI GMing sounds so far fetched though, if an AI is that capable it can do pretty much any job.
I think AI "players" would come first, but it wont be in a ttrpg way, but a "you have multiple AI characters not aware of your presence that you can make do what you want"
>ai gming
The moronic half-step between video games and solo rpgs that nobody needs. It will probably be easier for an ai to slop together an entire RPG video game than to consistently text-GM any RPG system you throw at it and interpret the rules correctly.
>nobody needs
Selling people mindless slop isn't about what people need.
>text
Why would it be text? There's already ai voice, you could have YOUR FAVOURITE CELEBRITY VOICE YOUR DND GAEM
>interpret the rules correctly
It will be more tuned towards fudging the rules so the players win and feel like they accomplished it on their own.
D&D would have to shit the bed hard enough that even the most normie of normies is willing to try something else.
Practically speaking, the only way D&D gets dethroned is if its license holders do some incredibly stupid and greedy things over and over for the better part of a decade. Until that happens D&D is going to remain the poster child for TTRPGs.
so we just need to wait a few years for Hasbro finish doing it's thing
The problem is that you can play D&D without supporting WOTC.
Even if (when) WOTC does something horrible, people will just play D&D using wiki pages rather than official books.
WotC starts publishing alternative systems that are "D&D" only in branding and aimed towards different types of players. That's really the only path I can see.
The biggest draw is always going to be the mystique of *playing D&D*, not anything related to actual mechanics or design philosophies, because that's most how most people first get interested in TTRPGs.
>WotC starts publishing alternative systems that are "D&D" only in branding and aimed towards different types of players.
That's literally what 3e, 4e, and 5e are.
D&D shills and corporate agents would need to stop suppressing discourse about other TTRPGs.
A cultural craze that someone else gets to market on faster.
That's exactly what happened with White Wolf, which is the nearest anyone's come to knocking the crown off. vampire was king of the scene for half a decade or more.
Capeshit is too hard to bring to the table and Star Wars has had its own culture war shit to harm it. If a big cinema wave comes to freshen everything out (Westerns again? Some other sci fi property?) then a contender could ride the wave. Hasbro might finally give up on pouring marketing money into D&D in the way it has since 2015 and that'd be that.
Also, once you have a group of decent players you can play what you want today, right now. It's only people with exclusively online gaming and no persistent group (i.e. newbies and total morons) who are trapped in D&D.
>Capeshit
Pic related.
>Westerns again?
I wish, but that time period is "problematic" now.
>It's only people with exclusively online gaming and no persistent group (i.e. newbies and total morons) who are trapped in D&D.
I can't even find D&D games nowadays. Nerds are so few and far between where I live, and finding an online group that isn't full of insufferable buttholes is damn near impossible.
>Also, once you have a group of decent players you can play what you want today, right now. It's only people with exclusively online gaming and no persistent group (i.e. newbies and total morons) who are trapped in D&D.
the searing truth
>White Wolf
If only their suits weren't so fricking terminally moronic.
>"Hey, you know that spirit realm that half of all play in our player's stories and half the metaplot takes place in? It's getting in the way of the PerSoNaL hOrRor, lets make playing it it unnecessarily annoying"
>Pisses of half the fanbase, start losing sales
>"How could this have happened!"
>Later...
>"Hey lets destroy the metaplot that's the basis for most of our popular stories and the reason half our fanbase plays!"
>"We can replace it with our shiny New game with New mechanics rather than just fixing the old mechanics with a new edition!"
>Splits the fanbase into warring tribes, and hemorrhages old fans.
>"How could this have Happened!"
>Goes under and is sold to new publisher.
>"Hey lets re-release a metaplot agnostic update with cleaner mechanics so people can play what they want and keep their favorite metaplot elements."
>Literally Swims in money.
>"Hey This next update, lets piss al over the metaplot all our returning fans returned for!"
>Splits the fanbase into warring tribes, again.
>"How could this have happened!"
>Vampire was king of the scene for half a decade or more.
1-2 years when TSR was bankrupt, but that's still closer than anything but arguably PF1.
In my neck of the woods you couldn't move for VtM games from 95 til the launch of 3e and then the switch was pretty gradual.
Not that I'm arguing, just explaining my previous opinion.
>Is there any real scenario that would even out the RPG field so that it would not be only D&D and its derivates or are we doomed forever to either play D&D or end up no games?
Yes, use a time machine to travel back before 3e and the OGL was issued.
>it just saddens me
Don't be sad OP
>doomed to play D&D or end up nogames
You are supposed to bring new people into the hobby. They will play what you play then. I never played a game in my life with strangers. I come from a small town, you cant post on some LFG forum here.
Tldr bring in newbie friends instead of looking for a group.
>You are supposed to bring new people into the hobby.
Nta but i did that, multiple times. I initiated them through different games (wfrp, gurps, brp, some homebrew, etc..), had a great response (i pushed some of them out of their comfort zone into gming) and they start branching off to different games independently (fate, savage worlds, 7th sea, kult) but, eventually, they all settled with 5e and pf2e, all because their playersonly got into buildhomosexualtry and the great availability of tools (integrated vtts, online srd, automated character builders, etc...) simplified their prep work and gming. You can fight the current zeitgeist just as much.
This. My new acquaintances became my friends, and after two campaigns they began to volunteer to be GMs. Impossible with D&D.
Man, that's sad. Does
apply? My local has several DnD campaigns but people are good natured and usually willing to try other things out.
Oops, meant to link
.
gays even refuse to actually call other games "tabletop RPGs" and just refer to all ttrpgs as "D&D".
It's disgusting.
>refuse
Nah, they just prefer calling them D&D. Kinda like how people call bandaids bandaids instead of calling them adhesive bandages.
They'd only be "refusing" if someone was trying to force them, and if you're someone going around demanding everyone stop using bandaid and D&D as generic terms, man, you really need to stop being such a little b***h.
You're right in most cases, but I've talked to guys that do literally refuse to call ttrpgs anything other than d&d.
The fact that its become a generic term is just a greater indicator that DnD has become nothing more than PRODUCT.
Which is fine if you're hawking bandaids or xerox machines, but becoming PRODUCT is the kiss of death for anything creative.
Imagine if books, or films, or anything else was referred to by only one example. It would be ludicrous.
>I read another kind of Bible the other day. It was weird and it didn't even have Jesus in it, although he was mentioned a few times.
>So anyway I'm back to just reading the Bible now.
Exactly lol.
>This Jazz Singer I watched the other day didn't even have blackface in it!
>But its all just like, moving images and maybe some sound, why would I ever watch anything else?
Of course some people will argue and RPG is more of a tool for being creative than something creative on its own, but that's still silly. When you have a hammer everything starts to look like a nail.
>can't distinguish between dnd and D&D
ngmi
D&D becoming PRODUCT, I think, is mostly just for ease of communication.
It's a lot easier to just say "It's like D&D, but X" than to describe the concept of a TTRPG.
And even if you do describe the concept of a TTRPG, most people will still just say "Oh, like D&D?"
You would have to make an RPG that's good. Not gonna happen. The only games that could ever have replaced D&D were Traveler and Call of Cthulhu, which were poisoned into lesser games even harder than D&D was.
Just about everything on the market, other than d20 clones and PbtA swill, is better than D&D. Being better than D&D isn't the problem; it's the unrefined taste of the public that's the problem.
It doesn't just have to be better than D&D. It has to actually be GOOD.
>It doesn't just have to be better than D&D. It has to actually be GOOD.
Well, sure, but we already have that. It's not a matter of there not being games that are better than D&D and not also good... It's a matter of naive idiots not knowing what "good" even looks like, much less taking the time to see if it's good when they're about to make a purchase.
I really don't understand this. I have never had a problem getting a group to play other games.
I could see people gravitating toward D&D for fantasy games, but I have run successful fantasy games using D6, Ars Magica, Savage Worlds, and Shadow, Sword, & Spell (Talk about an obscure game...)
Do you by chance live in somewhere other than america?
American gamers are pretty fricked by the spiky dick of WotC right now.
I never believed in 5e brainrot till maybe 2-3 years ago.
I couldnt pay my TTRPG group to try anything else and finding a group for my setting/system is essentially impossible.
>still trying to force your pet phrase
Frick off, brainrottroll.
>everyone who uses words I don't like is the same anon on a site with over 18 million monthly users
lol okay
What the frick else would I call it?
Its fricking brainrot.
People led to believe that DND 5e is the end all be all of the hobby and every other system is either subpar, overly complex, or "just not the same."
It's like if you met someone who only ever wanted to eat McDonalds and avoided all other food.
That's brain rot. Pure and simple. You have been mentally conditioned to think a very specific way.
meant for
>This fricking format again
Please fricking train your AI with writing differently. It's sickeningly repetitive at this point.
It's going to take implementing game mechanics for a genre that D&D can't ever actually do right.
Car chase games that model the physics-imposed constraints that make negotiating corners difficult.
Dogfighting games that model the physics-imposed constraints represented with the Doghouse Plot that make turning difficult.
Age of Sail games that model the physics-imposed constraints on movement from Wind on Sail Plans.
There's a whole world of things that D&D not only gets wrong, but can literally never get right, because it is too low resolution. Either because a d20 only has 20 sides, a d20 has a non-normal distribution, it treats square or hex grids too simply, or even because it uses a too low (or too high) time scale resolution. All that needs to be done is to find a type of game that D&D can never execute right, and make a killer version of that game, in a genre people have always wanted to play. Once people realize that other games can do things that D&D can literally never get right, they'll also wonder what other games do better than D&D in the same genre.
>Hear me, my elite cadre of TTRPG game designer mad scientists! Your work could be the very dagger that stabs Dungeons & Dragons through it's back into its very heart, and puts down that tyrant of mediocrity and inadequacy once and for all! With d20-based systems safely put into their place and left to immature childlings that scoop peanut butter straight from the jar and into their mouths with their fingers, actual gamers will finally be able to play actual games with actual mechanics that actually execute the actual genres they actually want to play actual games of, and actually actualizing our bespoke custom characters, in all their due glory and inadequacy! This! This is your time! This is your quest! Now go! Go out into the hexcrawl of game design destiny, and come back as the champion of our hobby, with the very dagger of Destiny we so desperately need!
You're doing it wrong.
Trying to make a game more realistic or specialized or complex necessarily narrows its bandwidth for mass appeal.
Low resolution but with the appearance of high production values is the way to dethrone king shit. The only problem is the new king shit is still king of shit.
>You're doing it wrong.
I don't think so.
>Trying to make a game more realistic or specialized or complex necessarily narrows its bandwidth for mass appeal.
It is not necessarily true that more realism necessarily comes at the cost of additional game complexity; but it does mean that the game designers need to actually work the problem of what a low resolution version of realism looks like at the relevant gameplay scales, which is more work than they usually bother to put in. But you don't get a "killer app" in a crowded market by not putting in such work; I'm merely pointing at directions that work hasn't been put into yet.
>Low resolution but with the appearance of high production values is the way to dethrone king shit. The only problem is the new king shit is still king of shit.
Yeah, I don't think so. "Popular Music" as a cultural phenomenon is dead and buried forever because the market has been endlessly fractured into a variety of well-executed genres catering to disparate interests; long gone are the days when anyone complained about hearing the same damn song over and over again on the radio, because people gave up on being spoon-fed their music. We need the same kind of revolution with Tabletop RPGs, where people can always find properly executed, good playing games for each and every genre they want to play, and people to play those games with.
Lets wait and see which happens first. 🙂
Which of what things?
Why would I need any other system when 5E can do it all?
It literally can't.