Oh god this thread again. Here's the actual definition from Looking Glass themselves - the people who actually invented the fricking term and the games, although here they called it 'immersive reality'. It's actually a game design concept but somewhere along the way it became the name of the entire fricking genre which confuses the frick out of people who think you're talking about Euro Truck Simulator and then look at you funny when you say, 'no, I mean like Thief.'
Anyway at least we can all agree Bioshock doesn't fit this definition at all and thus isn't actually one.
Also worth noting: Warren Spector is given credit for the term but he didn't actually invent it. It's just that game journalists tend to give him the credit for anything he's involved with even if he barely actually worked on the game (i.e. Thief) and even when he keeps telling those same game journos otherwise.
Jesus christ lol. Every writer no matter what field should study at least a bit of philosophy and logic, so that at least you'll start thinking about the content of your words instead of embarrassing yourself by contradicting yourself three times in a fricking paragraph. Frick journalism, gaming journalists are the worst but all journalists are buttholes.
Amazingly that quote's from 2002. A good while before everyone realized that the whole profession was full fricking moron. I'm just saying that it's always been like that.
Also the guy who allegedly actually coined the term 'Immersive simulation'? Doug Church, lead programmer of Ultima Underworld, System Shock and Thief: The Dark Project. Warren Spector has attempted to tell people this fact, repeatedly, in every single interview he's ever made on the matter and yet game journos still give him the credit even when he's just told them that Doug Church came up with it.
Thanks for reminding me that there are no longer any development studios that have this much soul and dedication to their craft that they write an entire manifesto about it
The closest would be FromSoftware I guess, since Miyazaki has a really specific idea on the type of game he wants to make and everyone in the studio follows his lead
I love them and there's a lot of intelligent design that goes into them but they by no means require a high IQ to play. They're typically quite easy due to the range of options you're given and you're always given too many items which trivialize the resource management and challenge stops toward the end of the games. Also replace Bioshock with Arx Fatalis.
>They're typically quite easy due to the range of options you're given and you're always given too many items which trivialize the resource management and challenge stops toward the end of the games
What about Thief?
No it isn't. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not its an fps or not. The whole thing predates the fps genre entirely - Ultima Underworld came out a couple of months before Wolfenstein 3D (as long as you aren't counting the really early pre-fps stuff like midi maze). Here's the actual definition:
Oh god this thread again. Here's the actual definition from Looking Glass themselves - the people who actually invented the fricking term and the games, although here they called it 'immersive reality'. It's actually a game design concept but somewhere along the way it became the name of the entire fricking genre which confuses the frick out of people who think you're talking about Euro Truck Simulator and then look at you funny when you say, 'no, I mean like Thief.'
Anyway at least we can all agree Bioshock doesn't fit this definition at all and thus isn't actually one.
>It's basically just an FPS that doesn't care how you get the job done.
Bioshock feels like an exact opposite to that. It is devs hated that they had to make a game so they want to control every little that you do without actually controlling you.
That Enhanced Edition really helped. The big pleb filter of Shock 1 (and Ultima Underworld) were those controls. With modernish wasd controls it turns out the game's kinda better than Shock 2. Although Shock 2's atmosphere is fricking insane
Yeah, technically. But let's be real, vidya expertise is just pouring time on it like an autist. Only that instead of actually learning a skill that doesn't get you anything, so people put on an FPS to relax and that's it. I'm impressed with all the people who can do those ultra stealth runs and whatnot, but it's useless to pour the time.
does the darkness count?
Oh god this thread again. Here's the actual definition from Looking Glass themselves - the people who actually invented the fricking term and the games, although here they called it 'immersive reality'. It's actually a game design concept but somewhere along the way it became the name of the entire fricking genre which confuses the frick out of people who think you're talking about Euro Truck Simulator and then look at you funny when you say, 'no, I mean like Thief.'
Anyway at least we can all agree Bioshock doesn't fit this definition at all and thus isn't actually one.
Also worth noting: Warren Spector is given credit for the term but he didn't actually invent it. It's just that game journalists tend to give him the credit for anything he's involved with even if he barely actually worked on the game (i.e. Thief) and even when he keeps telling those same game journos otherwise.
How the frick can game journos be that stupid
Jesus christ lol. Every writer no matter what field should study at least a bit of philosophy and logic, so that at least you'll start thinking about the content of your words instead of embarrassing yourself by contradicting yourself three times in a fricking paragraph. Frick journalism, gaming journalists are the worst but all journalists are buttholes.
Amazingly that quote's from 2002. A good while before everyone realized that the whole profession was full fricking moron. I'm just saying that it's always been like that.
Also the guy who allegedly actually coined the term 'Immersive simulation'? Doug Church, lead programmer of Ultima Underworld, System Shock and Thief: The Dark Project. Warren Spector has attempted to tell people this fact, repeatedly, in every single interview he's ever made on the matter and yet game journos still give him the credit even when he's just told them that Doug Church came up with it.
BA SA DO
Thanks for reminding me that there are no longer any development studios that have this much soul and dedication to their craft that they write an entire manifesto about it
The closest would be FromSoftware I guess, since Miyazaki has a really specific idea on the type of game he wants to make and everyone in the studio follows his lead
I love them and there's a lot of intelligent design that goes into them but they by no means require a high IQ to play. They're typically quite easy due to the range of options you're given and you're always given too many items which trivialize the resource management and challenge stops toward the end of the games. Also replace Bioshock with Arx Fatalis.
>They're typically quite easy due to the range of options you're given and you're always given too many items which trivialize the resource management and challenge stops toward the end of the games
What about Thief?
Bioshock is made by brainlets for brainlets.
It's basically just an FPS that doesn't care how you get the job done.
No it isn't. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not its an fps or not. The whole thing predates the fps genre entirely - Ultima Underworld came out a couple of months before Wolfenstein 3D (as long as you aren't counting the really early pre-fps stuff like midi maze). Here's the actual definition:
It's not what you're saying at all
>It's basically just an FPS that doesn't care how you get the job done.
Bioshock feels like an exact opposite to that. It is devs hated that they had to make a game so they want to control every little that you do without actually controlling you.
I only played ss1, dont care about the others
Would recommend Thief 1 and 2, same devs - even better atmosphere.
I remember when System Shock 2 was zoomer’s first retro PC game. Now it’s System Shock 1?
That Enhanced Edition really helped. The big pleb filter of Shock 1 (and Ultima Underworld) were those controls. With modernish wasd controls it turns out the game's kinda better than Shock 2. Although Shock 2's atmosphere is fricking insane
>vidya
>high IQ
in relative terms it is, broadly speaking obviously not.
Yeah, technically. But let's be real, vidya expertise is just pouring time on it like an autist. Only that instead of actually learning a skill that doesn't get you anything, so people put on an FPS to relax and that's it. I'm impressed with all the people who can do those ultra stealth runs and whatnot, but it's useless to pour the time.
You forgot Prey
>IS THAT A HECKIN 0451 CODE?? HOLY SHIT IM GONNA COOOOOOOOOOMM
midwit genre
Funnily enough the only game with that code that Looking Glass actually made was System Shock and even there it was 451 not 0451.
Can someone please remove bioshock from this list. Bioshock is a normalgay console shooter for morons that doesn't have any imsim elements.
Are these games in the op the only immersive simes that exist? Every time this genre is brought up it's the same games.