>Imperium: "The worst regime imaginable"
>Eldar: Arrogant and callous dying race
>Tau: Extreme Orwellian undertones
>Chaos: Literal Demons
>Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, Dark Eldar: evil aliens
>Leagues of Votann: ???
What's the grimdark hook for the new Squats? Will they even have one? Why isn't GW making them grimdark?
>Tau: Extreme Orwellian undertones
No, Tau are grimdark because they're innocent and naive and think the universe is a bright place that's full of potential. Tau are a child on an inner tube, blissfully unaware of the school of Great Whites circling beneath him.
They still have stuff like implied genocide of non-complaint races, mind control, and ethereals are sketchy af.
>They still have stuff like implied genocide of non-complaint races
Are you talking about the non-canon ending of an RTS game made by a third party, years and years ago?
No
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Poctroon
>Tau genocided the POC troons with germ warfare
wtf GW
wtf i love tau now
it was a different time
>people clamor for tau to be more grimdark
>GW throws them a bone with an implied genocide
>tau continue to act otherwise completely normal to their other client races and there is just a weird footnote where they act out of character for no reason
Why is GW writing so bad?
i have no idea wtf you are talking about their dex says they genocide in the fluff section. It was ALWAYS in the fluff.
>completely normal
Tau are an obvious dig at 1984 socialism. Unless you think that is a good idea, its amazing people can miss it.
>It was ALWAYS in the fluff.
Post something from the first tau codex saying that then
Still waiting on this
>their dex says they genocide in the fluff section. It was ALWAYS in the fluff.
Hey, just checking in on your progress on finding 3rd edition fluff that says Tau genocide people
>1984 socialism
I thought Orwell was the socialist all along
No proof that the T'au genocided them. It was likely just a plague since the T'au never genocided any submissive race.
>Demands a source
>receives one, immediately goes into damage control saying no proof
Like adding up two plus two.
>Full scale planetary invasion with shock and awe is "roughing up"
Then the Horus Heresy was a fricking pillow fight.
>Rounding up the population that survived the invqasion(likely involving the execution of people resisting being rounded up like cattle) and forcing them into brainwashing concentration camps whilst tearing down what remains of their homes and building new Tau infrastructure in its place is "re-extending the hand of diplomacy".
Sorry, but we have the T'au history set for us. They never genocided a race that submitted. So Arkham razor says it was an accident
>Arkham razor
Oh, you're just stupid my bad
Not as stupid as the guy who presents non-proof as solid proof. Try harder.
Do you mean Occam's Razor?
It's for their own good. People being embraced by the Greater Good find their lives are greatly improved.
The T'au codex says that the T'au are benevolent conquerors
>the codex meant to be read as in universe propaganda says the expansionist empire is a benevolent dictator
Yeah no fricking shit it does. Tau doctrine relies on subversion and propaganda. "We'll give you a thousand times better quality of life on all fronts" sounds a hell of a lot better than "frick the Imperium, come be OUR b***h instead!"
The codeces haven't been in universe propaganda in a long time. GW isn't that creative anymore.
And unlike the rest of the factions in the settings, the T'au actually mean it. They do labor to improve the lives of the populations that join their empire.
I think you mean the Populations they brainwash to accept being on the bottom of a shinier totem pole do the exact same shit they did before at the behest of their blue overlords, the self proclaimed "first among equals".
It's like watching a battered housewife saying her new husband loves her because he makes sure to occasionally pat her head and call her a good girl in between punching her the frick out like her ex.
Free healthcare, more economical freedom, access to quality of life tech, free education, actual order and stability, etc etc improvements at every level of civilian life.
In the Farsight novels, we see the changes the T'au do to an assimilated T'au planet from the poV of the Inquisition. The T'au ended disease and squalor on those worlds in less than a generation. The difference between the T'au and the Imperium is a rich manipulative bf vs the psychotic drunk husband. It's not a choice.
No human civilian would pick the Imperium except for ideological reasons of serving the God Emperor of Mankind and human supremacy. The funny thing is that the Primarch is now moving to improve the living standards of the Imperial plebs because he knows that's key to winning hearts and the stability of the Imperium. That's something the T'au have always understood.
The government has investigated and found the that government has committed no crimes
I mean, its a very tenuous implication, if you're getting that the Poctroon race was intentionally bio-wiped from the planet to make room for the Tau. Sounds more like the goofy ending to war of the worlds, but without the war. They formed an alliance with an incoming xenos race and then fricking died when xenos microorganisms got into the populace and ran rampant.
Sure the tau got a free planet out of it but unless you fill in a lot of blanks and insert some malicious intent, it was likely an accident.
>tau genocide the POC(troons)
Tau confirmed for being fascist and the best faction
homosexual it literally states in the older Tau dexes they genocide people who don't join them. Explicitly the word genocidal is used.
Theres also implied examples of this.
>the tau decided to kill orks, tyranids, space marines, and other bio weapons that are impossible to coexist with that makes them just as evil!!!
You're reaching
Yes, but who doesn't? That's just an extension of what we have IRL.
That was only added because homosexual morons cried about "le gommunism bad" and "my faction has to be less evil"
>culture war gay detected
it was implied or out right stated from the beginning with the tau.
Problem is tau gays are secondaries that dont read the fluff.
The Tau are a criticism of neoconservatism.
Who cares since tau are a faction for homosexual morons and shouldn’t have been included in the first place.
Tau are not commies and never have been.
>t. someone who hasn't read Tau lore and only knows memes
Show me a primary source that says Tau genocide uncooperative peoples. And no, the non-canon ending of Dawn of War was made by a 3rd party and doesn't count.
several codexes say it you fricking clownish idiot
Okay post it
- from the T'au standpoint, anyway - many races reject these diplomatic advances. Such beings cannot be left to threaten the empire in their ignorance. The Fire Caste now come to the fore, readying invasion plans that will most swiftly see the ingrates pacified. When the T'au attack, they come suddenly from the firmanent with overwhelming speed and firepower, seeking to prove to their enemies the hopelessness of standing against an empire unified by the Greater Good. So is the lesson of acquiescence taught 9 through force. Yet even in victory the T'au are not cruel. They seek to preserve what they can of both the enemy's world and the enemy themselves, for both will be valuable assets to the empire once conquered. As the Ethereals say, it is not the fault of those who are blind that they cannot yet see. Forced integration and re-education follows, even as the Earth Caste set to work healing the planet's battle scars and resettling it as the empire's latest outpost of enlightenment and culture.
9th ED T'au codex
So tau roughens them up and then extends the hand of diplomacy again. Where's the genocide?
I guess Tau fans wouldn't have much of a problem with the Emperor's Great Crusade since that's basically the attitude he had.
Your post says the Tau don't genocide.
I mean, the statement given is morally equivalent to "they don't genocide", but everyone is going to commit a little genocide with all of the irredeemable alien races running around.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59810383
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/29/business/amazon-alexa-penny-plug-intl-scli/index.html
TikTok can be blamed for this as usual.
The tau empire is a strict genetics based social hierarchy expansionist Empire. You are born into your caste, and you work in your assigned role to service the needs of the greater whole(the Ethereals). You have zero social mobility, your role is chosen for you by the ethereals sitting atop the pyramid scheme, and if you don't get in line they don't give a shit about killing you.
Per War Zone Damocles, 7e, Kauyon, in the passage where they talk about killing "the king of the space marines", it makes explicit mention of the tau propaganda machine blasting that across the empire and proclaiming that the stupid, backwards, primitive humans couldn't stop the empire's glorious expansion and how the "greedy, rotten humans" would be brought to heel. For their own good, of course. They only resorted to diplomacy when they realized the Imperium was too big for them to curbstomp.
Tau have always been grimdark as shit, they just slap a coat of happy optimistic paint over it so you slap the chains on your own wrists for them and get to work like a good sla- I mean Gue'vasa.
That's not exactly true.
The T'au members through merit can asend the social rank ladder. From La to O. A Fire Caste will ever be a trooper but he has options regarding what kind of trooper he can be. For example, Darkstrider chose to be where he was now.
The T'au use diplomacy always. It didn't matter how large the Imperium is. That's how they roll. Their propaganda regarding the second Damocles expansion was half true. The T'au rubbed the face of the Imperium into the dirt nearly at every turn in the war. What the T'au did was underestimate the unthinking spite of the Imperium. Instead of accepting defeat graciously, the Imperium launched a vengeful attack of staggering size at Agrellan. The T'au defeated the attack but the Imperium responded by unleashing assassins and then fire bombing Agrellan and setting the Damocles Gulf to flame all to sore the T'au victory and disengage from the conflict.
Also one thing everyone seems to forget is that the castes are really distinct from each other to a point that they couldn't outperform their cross-caste competitors even if they wanted to. No Air, earth or water caste member is going to be a better fighter than fire caste member, no other caste can tolerate flight and zero-grav as air caste member does and so on. And to keep it that way and to further strenghten the roles of each caste is the inter-caste breeding forbidden. Just eugenics program on steroids.
>You have zero social mobility
Wrong actually, they operate on a pretty strict meritocracy WITHIN the individual castes. Someone from the fire caste wont become a diplomat and someone from the air cast wont become an engineer, but their standing within each caste is down to their personal ability.
>factory workers operate on a strict meritocracy within the warehouse!
lmao. You still have eugenically determined leaders and soldiers - doesn't matter if you can get promoted and given a more powerful gun.
>factory workers operate on a strict meritocracy within the warehouse!
But they dont, you dont go from the guy moving the boxes to the guy in charge of logistics/management.
>You still have eugenically determined leaders and soldiers
Yes, they have a caste system, thats what that means.
>doesn't matter if you can get promoted and given a more powerful gun
That or be transfered to a different department, or be put in charge of training or military logistics or strategy or whatever else.
>But they dont, you dont go from the guy moving the boxes to the guy in charge of logistics/management.
That doesn't happen in the Tau either. If you're born to fight then you're fighting. The fact you can be moved around to differing roles is irrelevant, its still biological determinism, which is backwards as frick.
Also, the managers for the warehouse are often inside it, just in an office instead of the floor. My point was they're not allowed to move on up past the warehouse, because that isn't their place because they were born wrong.
>That doesn't happen in the Tau either
But it does, a fire caste warrior very much CAN go on to become a general or strategist or combat instructor.
You stay in your "lane", but your actual position within the fairly broad limits of the castes is down to aptitude
what the frick are you on about?
the race of clones that obey a super intelligence and when they die they upload their conciseness to it.
Oh good, at least the AI will talk less then.
Jolly protagonists
Votann are blindly following their moronic gangster computer gods that take longer and longer to spit out worse and worse answers to their questions because Votanns refuse to close all their Ancestor.exe instances or reboot their moronic gangster computer gods. Their "grimdank hook" as you put it is the fact that their whole society is stuck in its ways on a doomed trajectory and being told to Trust The Plan™ because Votann-sama would never steer them wrong and to question whether or not it's smart to take orders from a glitchy, laggy Olmec Computer is to spit directly in the eye of every last ancestor you've ever had.
Honestly its a decent enough hook, basically Imperium 2.0 stagnation and decline boogaloo, but less great empire slowly crumbling and more one day everything goes to shit when HAL9000 finally goes senile enough to start the domino effect of rapid collapse. Having the cloning pods getting slightly more fricked could be interesting as well, some sort of mutant troll-slayer equivelant.
The last remnants of a heroic scale humanity.
being manlets
>What's the grimdark hook for the new Squats?
being under 5'10" is grimdark enough
>grimdark hook for the new Squats
>GATTACA
>Friend Computer
>1984
They've already been introduced as a caste/clone eugenic based society religiously following failing AI cores, socially isolationist with a stupidly strong (and given 40k, likely justified) Us vs. Them mentality, and diehard traditionalists.
They're going to be just as racist as the Eldar and Imperium. They're going to be just as intolerant as everyone else.
They will probably be just as 'human resources' as the Mechanicum with the cold calculus of AI Core efficiency deciding everything from if they should die standing against some orcs, or if getting their left arm replaced with a drill is for the cause due to a 0.004% increase in lifetime production. I'd expect that GW will make them the sort of 'Imperiums Imperium' as a technically allied but outside entity that lets them get some good irony by having the view from without and within with each side shaking their head at how 'bad' the other is.
>I'd expect that GW will make them the sort of 'Imperiums Imperium' as a technically allied but outside entity
Agreed. They're a sub-race of demihumans, like Ogryns and Ratlings, right?
Artificially made instead of naturally evolved, but yes.
choads
tuna cans
they keep finding balrogs but the AI keeps assuring them it's a statistical improbability that EVERY planet they mine will have an inexplicable tolkien reference
their entire culture is about mining and not being on the last crew in the mine, never knowing which will be the last crew before they piss off the fricking balrog
why does shidmarxism think quoting the hyberbolic intro text is some massive take down of the setting when Chaos is objectively a worse regime than the Imperials.
Two things can be bad at the same time
Chaos is objectively worse
you're a moronic liar.
>Chaos is objectively worse
Okay? The Imperium is still bad
Its like saying America is bad vs Khmer Rouge and the Soviet Union and Nazi germany.
Nazi Germany fought the Soviet Union. Two things that are bad can fight.
eh? i mean Chaos is like nazis and communists all rolled into one but worse.
Nobody is saying they're not? The Imperium is evil, Chaos is even more evil.
>the Imperium is evil
time for your meds again
Agreed
Rick Priestley straight up said in an interview that you have to consider the possibility that the imperium is mankind's only chance at survival in the setting
And it's dismissed since it's stated that humanity's survival will be assured under the T'au but their destiny of ruling the stars will die.
There is such a concept as a lesser evil. That the Imperium is mankind's best and only remaining hope does not make it not evil, no more than doing charity work on the weekends would make a serial killer less evil.
The Imperium is not evil.
>Soviet Union
>evil
>pick one or sue your school because it clearly failed your education
Go back to your grave, Stalin.
Take Putin with you.
Everything you believe was cooked up in a board room by some fat pig CEO to increase profits by 2.3% next quarter.
guess how i know you're not from europe
what sort of trauma causes a man to become a tankie
>Nazis
>Evil
>Doesn't know what le green meme arrows mean
Kill you are self
>you're a moronic liar.
Prove me wrong then
Two things can't be the WORST at the same time, moron.
The Imperium and Chaos are both horrible pyramid schemes, but Chaos is worse because it gives the false hope that it might be a pyramid scheme you can actually win at.
Chaos isn't exactly a regime
it is when it takes over a planet, daemon worlds are ruled by Daemon princes. You then live under a daemon's regime.
>strictly regimented into four primary doctrines
>has colonized planets with stable (albeit EEEEEVIL) settlements
>follows the whims of a council of four moronic boomers
It's a regime alright.
>stable
anon
it's chaos
they are stable in the sense the status quo, mortal suffering, is constant and the Daemon prince ruler is in power for thousands of years.
There's no status quo. That's the point.
>they're stable in the sense that they're constantly unstable
anon
Africa still has settlements and cultures, anon.
Africa isn't anywhere near Chaos, anon.
I agree, Africa is much more chaotic and unstable.
I dunno if you actually know what chaos is
It's just the MTG color wheel but with only 4 colors (+ colorless) and no mixing allowed.
Chaos is incredibly stagnant and orderly in 40K, particularly in comparison to the Imperium or especially Orks.
Votann are eternal Anglos
>What's the grimdark hook for the new Squats? Will they even have one? Why isn't GW making them grimdark?
Well, from what I can gather, the Squats are basically subservient clones to a group of deteriorating AIs. And the reason why "AI will always rebel against their creators!" rule doesn't apply to them is because, well, they ARE the creation of AI, being likely seen in a similar fashion to the drones they produce.
That means they probably don't allow genetic deviation at all, and are even stricter about the whole "purity" thing than even the Imperium. Where in the Imperium (depending on where you live), a minor mutation might see you ostracized, the Squats will probably just kill you for being defective.
In addition, given they get all their Tech from the Votann, they very likely do less research and development than even the Adeptus Mechanicus, if any at all, since they wouldn't have a reason to, as they can just ask Papa Votann for the solution. And now that these are breaking down, it isn't unlikely that the Squats have no idea how to tackle new threats their current equipment can't handle.
They are a people on the decline. It might take a while, but, unless some REALLY drastic shit happens, they have pretty much no way to go but downwards, with no way to slow their decline down.
Orks aren't evil, they were genetically created for war and nothing else. They have no concept of good or evil. It's like calling a rabid animal evil.
they are evil, if they were made to not be evil they have changed a lot.
Basically the ork is like a dumber sounding nazi.
>muh ebil nazism, muh ebil communism
Lol, let's just ahistorically interpret modernity to reinforce liberal dogma. The imperium isn't evil, it's so huge and desperate that it pragmatically wiped out entire planets, because if they don't humanity gets even more ass fricked
yeah but Chaos is evil like the nazis and commies
The road of bones in the Soviet union and skull pagodas in Cambodia, very khorne.
And Chaos's entire deal is survival of the fittest very nazi.
>The road of bones in the Soviet union
If you think poor treatment of workers and their remains is evil, have I got news for you about the Imperium of Man
i think building roads out of human bones goes a little far beyond poor treatment, horseshoe
They didn't build the road out of bones, they buried workers who died in the road. It was evil, but it wasn't a cartoon khorne structure.
Lol, then liberalism is slaanesh. You want to make cringe comparisons, there you go
Slaanesh is more "progressive" insanity
this dude just called the galaxy-wide nightmare theo-bureaucracy pragmatic
you would not survive your ideal world
Not sure how you not being a moron (or alive) would change my survival
>breakaway civilization of genetic clones born into fixed roles with every aspect of their society controlled by increasingly erratic ancient AI cores that they keep a secret from the rest of the galaxy.
what exactly is the problem here? they fit the twisted setting of grimdark 40k just fine
>What's the grimdark hook for the new Squats?
controlled by failing AI, are uncaring of the other races if they get in the middle of their resources acquisition
>inb4 that's not enough
it was for eldar and tau
Paranoia, but in space.
They are literally imperial stooges.
Hopefully robot autists who do whatever the AI says.
Please tell me this is fake, what the frick?
>Ms Livdahl tweeted that she intervened, yelling: "No, Alexa, no!"
fricking kek
Every day, there's some moron with a hot fresh unprecedented 40K take
You sound mad.
Just thinking about it, and it may be off topic, but has anyone else noticed a lot of newer people in the hobby tend to think the imperium isn't that bad? At my LGS this new guy was trying to explain that the imperium is fine and it's everything around them causing them to go to shit. He didn't listen to the veteran chaos marine player trying to explain to him that the imperium is extremely dysfunctional with infighting and stupid decisions leading to deaths of entire planets, not to mention the bureaucracy. I feel like GW is trying to spin away from the imperium being grimdark, and are instead trying to paint the imperium as a victim of circumstance.
>What's the grimdark hook for the new Squats? Will they even have one? Why isn't GW making them grimdark?
Why are you so desperate to take issue with them when they're not even out yet? We don't know what their grimdark undertone is, beyond "relying on failing computers that they venerate as gods."
They suffer the most loathsome fate of them all: being midgets.
Dying race who has resorted to cloning to stay alive leading to massive birth defects (look at their fricking faces),clones lack souls and tend to have catastrophic misfortune befall them because of it, and they are dependent on AIs, which not only inevitably will try to destroy all life in the 41st millennium, but who are constantly losing information and growing senile. Additionally, if the Mechanicus ever found out about them, they'd be genocide'd again
Dwarfs are comic relief and nothing more.
>What's the grimdark hook for the new Squats?
Being 5' 10.
If I were to guess, they'd be extremely paranoid and hostile to outsiders because they're the sole survivors of their race. So kind of like a group of survivalists who kill anyone they think is slightly suspicious.