Is there a way to play arcade games on a consumer CRT TV at the proper resolution and refresh rate? For example, R-Type is 55Hz @384x256. Is this possible to do that on a consumer CRT with switchres or something else? Or do I need a multisync CRT monitor for this?
If I do need a CRT monitor, what is the best thing to look for so I have the best compatibility and performance with a wide variety of arcade games? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the 15KHz vs. 31KHz and how that works in relation to emulating/using MiSTer to play arcade games
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Not telling you.
maybe.
You'd probably need a CRT TV with something like RGB SCART input, as far as I'm aware that is "as good as it gets" with an analogue signal.
>For example, R-Type is 55Hz @384x256. Is this possible to do that on a consumer CRT
Worked for me on mister.
>I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the 15KHz vs. 31KHz
15KHz is close to consumer TVs and 31KHz and up is close to VGA monitors, multisync monitors that do both are extremely rare are more trouble than it's worth, I just have a switch in my setup that goes between normal TV and a VGA monitor to do both.
>You'd probably need a CRT TV with something like RGB SCART input
Component also works, you just have to buy a $20 transcoder on ali that turns RGB into component.
>more trouble than it's worth
Why? I have one of these and it works fine. Or are you saying they are a pain to track down?
Pain to find and usually have a crazy price tag, hard to justify over just using 2 different monitors.
You need a tvwith analog rgb inputs so it can be rgb modded. Also look for a rounded bubble screen, the flat panels are mostly digital with poor geometry.
>the flat panels are mostly digital
Another great example of /vr/ anons confidently parroting half remembered shit with the resulting post being complete gibberish.
By digital you probably mean HD CRTs and the vast majority of flat CRTs are not that and are perfectly fine for retro games.
No, I meant the jungle chip has digital rgb inputs, you can't scart mod these tv's so run them in rgb mode like a real arcade monitor. With analogue inputs you can mux the signals by injecting rgb into the osd lines. But thanks for jumping to conclusions, genius.
Here's a Sanyo I rgb modded today. It's very similar except for the small size to what was in arcades back in the day.
Looks good, anon. And don't worry about the size because the arcade monitors even back in the day sometimes had the wrong ones, almost no one cared unless it was egregious, like if you stuck that in a six-player X-Men cab and called it good.
Thanks Anon. I have another Sanyo, a slimfit with terrible build quality. I believe that is why they have a bad reputation but this one has amazing build quality and in my opinion beats Sharp as a Nintendo tv.
You want a CRT monitor, not a CRT television. Your consumer television isn't going to like anything that isn't 480i or some variant of it (240p). Sure, you can find devices that will turn any video output into a valid NTSC signal, but it's going to be doing that by awkwardly squashing it into 480i.
>You want a CRT monitor, not a CRT television
Bet you can't explain what the difference is.
Superguns exist for a reason and they don't "awkwardly squash" shit
>Your consumer television isn't going to like anything that isn't 480i or some variant of it (240p)
Most arcade games made before 2000 are "some variant of 240p"
>Bet you can't explain what the difference is.
Ask ChatGPT if you want to be spoonfed.
>Most arcade games made before 2000 are "some variant of 240p"
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were only looking to play a very specific subset of games instead of a solution which is both universal and easier.
>solution which is both universal and easier
Hunting down working arcade multisync monitor and hooking it up to work with emulation is universal and easy? Where?
It sounds like you would be better off using a 4K screen and a retrotink4K with shaders
buy a multisync monitor, or a supergun
>R-Type is 55Hz @384x256
Easy to do with RGB-Pi or Mister
31khz is more for 480p gaming and 24khz is very niche and probably not worth the hassle
>24khz is very niche
There's like 2 arcade games running at that res and one retro PC with no games that actually support that mode, not worth thinking about
You absolutely don't need multisync monitor for fricking R-Type
for a wide variety of arcade games it can be useful
Name me an arcade game that can't just be played on either normal tv or vga monitor
new fantasia best 50
gals panic 2
mame also has them both basically unplayable
graphical frickups and audio issues
gals panic 2 seems to be 240p, can't even find the other one, if it's not working on MAME it isn't a monitor problem, is it?
it has a weird sync/refresh rate
along with fantasia
i would imagine most of the comad deepcuts have issues
theyre not MUST plays & i know im being autistic
but that technically is the answer that anon was looking for atleast partially
to the OP
i dont know of a one size fits all converter / upscaler solution
i have 3 rgb converters and 2 rgb>hdmi adapters
each have their own flaws
pic related is my favorite solution that is currently available
do not frick with the seller
do not dox the seller
he is legit & a small business
your only other hope (lagless) is a keene electronics rgb 2 svid converter
they are rare and vintage but support both pal and ntsc which is nice
on the cheap if you just want a hdmi supergun
hyperkins genesis 2 cable works fine
2-4 frames dropped
i have the pcb bc mame sucks balls
atleast for overseas deepcuts
im into weird shit i guess
not for actual fapping
but for the novelty?
qix is a good game
and rad boobs
are just that
frickin rad
tit tays
>i have the pcb
Okay, and you connect it to what?
depends
some pcb are finnicky as shit
i have multiple crt, some more forgiving than others
i have multiple upscalers/converters as well
i change based on a per-need basis
typical setup =
arcade pcb, whatever must be done to return to fricking jamma (looking at you homosexual namco & your harnesses that exist for no reason)
supergun: H.A.S. or supergunminigun
do NOT buy cbox crap from china anon
added so much lag with its shitty converter that even for free i still dont want it
(red pcb, amazon/aliexpress/ebay)
the RGB signal goes to
retrotink rgb2comp>retrotink 2xpro for shitdmi setups or gaymen monitors
for CRT:
rgb signal from gun goes to either keene electronics converter (if pal) or rgb>s-video (waka)
the s-video goes to sony pvm or whatever consumer set is closest/is playable without dropping sync or having issues
some boards refuse to play nice no matter what i do
some will only upscale to hdmi
i am still looking for a reliable catch all solution
H.AS. gun should have a nice new update in 2024 hold on for that is my recommendation
or grab the waka and see if it works for you
your pc can do
pc>displayport>vga>rgb>crt
(with a bit of custom driver frickery)
Please try to remember the point of the conversation, I mean do you connect your titty game with fricked sync pcb to 24KHz or multisync monitor and if not then what was the point of the
one of them plays fine on crt
one of them ONLY syncs with hyperkins genesis shitmon hdmi adapter (fricking kek)
its ironic that the device i grabbed on a whim before i researched scalers gets used a LOT
i have one inside a 1up cab i modded also so i can do jamma/supergun
tldr: yes i hook the tiddie games up on crt
but sometimes you are forced to use scalers as the signal is to off-spec
i am monitoring this thread for solutions along with OP now
pic related somewhat:
nebulas ray (namco) pcb
never ported to anythjng, shame
You can get some tv's that take a 31khz signal, namely I have seen this on Panasonics or niche Euro brands like Loewe
What do you mean “arcade games”
You actually mean you are trying to hook this up to an emulator right?
If you are going down the total autism route then you’d need something like a supergun and the original PCBs.
What level of autism are we talking here?
>you’d need something like a supergun and the original PCBs
Why would you do that when the mister exists
the misterfpga project is a wonderful gift
but the idea that all pcb are useless now is a farce
>tekken 2
>soul edge
>erghiez
>dead or alive++
& thats just whats in my closet right now in bubble mailers brother
off the top of my head
i cant remember if the mister lets you fiddle with DIP settings for even neogeo
ill check and report back later tonight
>i cant remember if the mister lets you fiddle with DIP settings for even neogeo
It did for pretty much arcade game I've played on it
You didn't understand what the post was about
I'm not interested in 480i
your consumer set can handle 480 or 240 anon
whether or not it looks dumb and ugly to you is another story
No shit, what does it have to do with anything, I have 10 ways to output 480i to my TV.
Aren't the Playstation ports of Tekken better than the arcade?
other way around
the backgrounds are actually 3D and not just flat panels
dead or alive++ is a remaster of the improved ps1 port sent back to arcades
its not the end of the world if you can only play the ps1 releases though honestly
what about the finnicky boards?
taito f3, etc?
im going to do a few youtube videos side-by-side and see if there is any desync going on
i AM using a converter-chain so i have a feeling i could be fricking things up somewhere
although when i do snes over rgb it seems normalplayable & 240p test suit flags me at 0-1 frame at most
I was planning on using RetroArch with my old PC, but it sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through to have it output to a CRT so I will probably use my MiSTer. I would prefer RetroArch though since I already know the layout and have everything setup for it.
My CRT TV has both component has composite outputs.
>sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through to have it output to a CRT
Software wise it's a bit more hoops to jump through but to actually connect it to TV you'll need the same adapters as mister (HDMI to VGA, VGA to component)
Retroarch works fine with CRTemu as long as you have a compatible graphics card.
If you already have a mister just launching the R-Type core to see that it works fine would take you a lot less time than typing these posts.
>it has a weird sync/refresh rate
And this weird refresh rate would work on 24KHz monitor for some reason? Despite the game being 240p?
>your only other hope (lagless) is a keene electronics rgb 2 svid converter
There's also VGA2NTSC, either solder your own or find someone selling
i use antonio Vs adapter for mister
it does s-video/composite
if he has component all he needs is literally one cable and a ini file tweak (change one digit from a 0 to a 1)
i havent fricked with the mister over component but i would imagine its even sharper than what i have goin on
for pc unless you have a toaster gpu ypu need to contact the crtemu driver wizard that lurks these boards
i just do it the shitty way
hdmi > av converter (tested with 240p suite, it looses about 1-6 frames)
played puchi carat with a spinner controller and did fine for 10-30 minutes
your mileage may vary
your china device may arrive laggier/shittier
no guarantees
price = $4
>hdmi > av converter
With $4 china converter the image would 100% be interlaced, might as well play on LCD monitor
the monitor is 240p and 13" anon
it looks fine, i use it for cartoons &
90s grainy television torrents as background noise
yes, fails the super mario test in terms of lagfeel
but for jrpg and shit like that its fine
esp for that price
I use an HDMI > RF converter I bought off Amazon for $50. Outputs sound too to me 30+ year old TV set.
Do you get 240p?
I have absolutely no idea, I have no idea how to check, and I didn't care about this when I was using RF in the 90s either.
lol, that pic
yeah I was using one of those stupid texture packs sue me ok
I don't think that is the problem anon
that pic is terrible and the set definitely needs calibrating
I don't think it's possible to calibrate it really, it's RF only
I just set it to what looks OK enough to me
Are U squishing a widescreen image here
yes
>I don't think it's possible to calibrate it really
All you have to do is make the aspect ratio better and lower brightness and raise contrast
I was mostly talking about your photo looking like you were taking a game leak picture on the run
sometimes it looks ok, sometimes it doesn't
brightness is generally not that high and I don't know shit about contrast, I just select what looks good enough
contrast sometimes has a ying yang symbol
Brightness should be halfway usually so as not to wash out all the colours
I can't really tell anything using contrast.
It's a 30+ year old Sharp Linytron, 19EM4OR if that means anything. RF only input. I literally found it on the curb.
Can't really adjust the aspect ratio from Windows, I can adjust it with RA sort of.
I also don't like colours that are "too bright".
Some PAL tvs might be willing to sync to 55hz.
>R-Type is 55Hz @384x256
55Hz * 256 lines = 14080Hz
Add 30 lines of vblank to bring it to 15730 and it works, no special monitor needed.
Groovymame should have a modeline for R-Type to work out of the box
Posting stupid shit while having absolutely no reason to assume it wouldn't normally sync on NTSC TV as well.
The posts in this thread wouldn't be as dumb as they are if op actually tried to run R-Type with CRTemu and encountered an actual problem before asking instead of imagining a problem that isn't there.
>play arcade pcb on ntsc crt
yes
rgb > ntsc converter
i run svideo to my pvm
>actual native refresh rate
this is a bit more fricky
only one of my crt out of all them has a sync/hold knob
if i use arcade cores on mister (without changing the refresh rate to standard ntsc) i will get a rolling image and have to fiddle with the knob to stabilize the picture
is there a non-autistic reason you need the original refresh rate?
whats wrong with 60hz?
>whats wrong with 60hz?
it won't run at proper speed. If a game is 55Hz, that's 10% faster at 60Hz, a pretty big deal for anything that requires quick reactions or timing. And there is a lot of games that run at 54hz, 57hz, 62hz, etc.
so shmups are unplayable basically
is there some type of list / resource to check refresh rates of pcb?
is it just a PAL thing?
im not ultra frickin hardcore but i think i would notice a speed difference during my pcb vs emulation vs pandoras shitbox showdown i did last year
i believe the has supergun and minigun supergun both convert the refresh rate but i could be wrong
arcade italia has the refresh rate listed by MAME, which is usually accurate, but there are quite a few games that are wrong on MAME (usually the PCB is just 59.xHz instead of the even 60Hz that MAME has).
I just didn't have the cables, then I have to do tests to make sure any cables/converters aren't adding lag.
none of the stuff in this thread will add lag
portta makes a decent converter also
retrorgb gays have a webpage with decent conversion/signal chain info
>pic not fricking related whatsoever
its autistic and probably the worst way to do it
but i still want to do it
I've been fruitlessly trying to get downscaling on to GBS-C work for like a year and it's extremely fricky
VGA or RGBS inputs straight up don't work, the whole thing rolls
Component input through HDMI into VGA into component transcoder finally worked (straight VGA into component doesn't for some reason lol)
but the image is off center with substantial portions of the screen are cut off, trying to move it in the GBS settings in any direction drops sync.
I'll keep trying with different graphics cards but this shit genuinely drives me up the fricking wall.
I don't even have any use for that aside of maybe playing Yume Nikki in 240p but this shit not working right taunts me.
If you think that's an easy way to get your emus on a tv look for something else.
vga>av converter worked for me
but you have to tweak/adjust the picture size/postion every time you use it
and the buttons/menu are the shittiest ever made
again, not lagless drops 2-5 frames on 240p test suite
may i ask what game is that?
fantasia 2000 new best 50
there are a few different versions floating around
"new fantasia"
Stupid fricking thread
Is your TV actually outputting at 55Hz though? Check it with an OSSC and double check, it's probably just outputting at 60Hz.
What are the specific connections/cables/converters you are using here to connect your MiSTer?
IO board and active YC adapter into s-video
It's possible to replace IO board with generic HDMI to VGA adapter but you'll need to power the YC board with another USB cable
Would VGA to component work or what adapter do I need for a CRT with just component hookups?
If you got IO board it already can output component, you just need a simple VGA to component cable and some settings on the mister, if not you either need to mod an HDMI to VGA dongle to use the same VGA to component cable or go HDMI to VGA to component (avoid chinese HDMI to component adapters, they all have scalers in them nowadays so it's useless for what you're trying to do)
is your active adapter antonio Vs from somewhere in europe?
kek hes right though
consumer sets kinda "get close enough" to the number & try their best
when i adjust the rolling image using my mister + hold knob it hurts my eyes
causes fatigue etc
hows it play for you?
i usually end up changing the refresh rate to match a normal crt doing the arcade cores
but now maybe i have the autism too
what if the game speed is actually all mangled 9% too fast etc
my pvm seems to handle almost everything i throw at it but
im thinking what if the superguns arent even accurate? what if theyre changibg the refresh rate of my shmup pcb?
what if i have been playing dondonpachi daioujou fricking 11% faster than the discord trannies?
i can 1cc a few maps in this state already
what if its making me a super player on accident fricking kek
>im thinking what if the superguns arent even accurate? what if theyre changibg the refresh rate of my shmup pcb?
super guns dont touch the refresh rate of the video signal unless you have one specifically doing processing
at most they have a sync cleaner on them which again, doesnt change the refresh rate
It's MikeS adapter
https://github.com/MikeS11/MiSTerFPGA_YC_Encoder
>hows it play for you?
Plays perfectly at the original frequency on all 3 CRTs I got, smooth scrolling and no hiccups.
If its rolling on your set the only solution is finding a TV that isn't a b***h about refresh rates, pretty much. Sonys and JVCs never let me down.
I was on the fence about this cause I wasn't sure if it was gonna work with with the arcade cores
thanks
I didn't wanna have to run special course just so I could use that adapter
the one i have is universal but 32x core has messed up colors still
can you do sega 32x?
Played chaotix through composite on that adapter, looked pretty good to me.
>I didn't wanna have to run special course just so I could use that adapter
It's rolled into mister main now and can be used on pretty much any core.
It's extremely worth it if you're going to use composite, pretty much the cleanest composite you can get out of any emu box. If you're only using svideo just keep using antonio vilenna adapter, there's no difference there.
if i want 32x wirh correct colors i gotta buy the adapter you have
If I want to skip all the autism and tinkering with tons of different cables and converters and worrying about compatibility with different arcade games and whatnot, would a multisync CRT monitor connected VGA to VGA with MiSTer just be an idiotproof solution that "just works"?
And what about higher res CRT monitors, would those also work, maybe also even have better compatibility with a PC with RetroArch using CRT switchres with super resolution?
There's no 480p arcade games on mister so far so unless you venture in the "computer" folder all of the arcade and console cores are foolproof as soon as the thing is plugged into your TV.
>I want to skip all the autism and tinkering with tons of different cables and converters
If you mean arcade multisync monitor getting that thing hooked up is levels of autism tinkering higher than buying a converter or two on amazon.
If you mean spending $2000 on a late model PVM that supports 31KHz you will still need to buy converter and a cable lol
And what will you get after doing that is being able to use AO468 core to emulate Windows 95 I guess
People in the thread are trying to solve a non existing problem fantasizing about a thing that doesn't actually solve it. Multisync monitors don't have a huge range, they have 2, maybe 3 modes, and the range on 15KHz mode is about the same as on a normal shmuck TV, and if your TV is pissy about refresh rates it's much simpler to find another as most of them really aren't.
It's actual 55
I can change the target refresh in the core options, goes down to 50 fine but actual 60 doesn't sync. at 256 lines vertical the beam can't go fast enough.
If you want to skip the autism, you can either go original hardware all the way, or emulate all the way.
>but what about higher res monitors
There's the rub. It depends what you mean by "higher res" because Narc is a high-res game from its time, but now it technically isn't.
But if you just want to keep it simple, don't worry about it, most people have never seen an arcade monitor in action at this point.
And I posit that in most cases the difference is negligible.
Can you not google? Groovymame/groovyarcade will do it, mister will do it, retroarch will do it although the resolutions can be weird on it, but the artwork looks right and has the right refresh so it doesn't matter. But you have to get rgb into it, so scart or an adapter if changing to component or svideo. Its a lot of work, instead of just using a gsync monitor and retroarch, which is easy and looks almost as good.
also to add to this, even if you do use groovymame, when you load of different resolutions, the crt will display them very differently, so you have to readjust the crt's service menu settings for the current game you're into, its really not worth it vs just using gsync, and thats coming from a guy with 8 crt's.
There's a lot of overscan, an NTSC CRT can actually display 525 lines and not just 480. In progressive scan that will give you 262 lines to work with. With emudriver you could send a 262p signal through, and use your TV's service menu to shrink the geo
Depends how you connect your rtype board
Now what the frick do you mean by that.
Which connection method do you think changes the refresh rate?
Most of the ones homosexuals find on scamazon to connect their imaginary board to their imaginary tv
connecting MiSTer to CRT was extremely easy, literally just plug VGA to component cables in, and then enable the ypbpr setting. If you get some warped scrolling picture, flick the SOG switch on the side of your MiSTer. I have no way to check the refresh rate with external tools, but my other monitor (an old 60Hz fixed monitor) was black while playing on CRT which I think is because that monitor doesn't support 55Hz.
I'd much rather play on RetroArch though, and I'm going to have to figure out a way to set my old computer up to output to CRT.
>figure out a way to set my old computer up to output to CRT
Get an actual VGA to component transcoder and https://docs.libretro.com/guides/crtswitchres/
I don't have a VGA connection on the PC, so would I just use an HDMI to component transcoder? Don't only certain very old GPUs even support such low resolutions like 240p?
>would I just use an HDMI to component transcoder
Only if you find one that doesn't have any processing and only converts the signal.
All the HDMI to component shits I bought lately have scaling bullshit in them so they wouldn't work, so going HDMI to VGA to component is safer, though it creates quite the spaghetti.
>Don't only certain very old GPUs even support such low resolutions like 240p?
Super resolutions are there in case your GPU doesn't support low pixel clock.
Doing what he mentions in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8TJMoFrV1A
Doing HDMI to HDMI to VGA converter then VGA gender changer (not sure if I need this) then VGA to component.
Also some comment on reddit said
>Try outputting a super resolution of something like 2560x240. I got that to work on my nvidia card. My BVM displays it as 240p (Well the display says 480I but it's non interlaced with 240p scanlines)"
so I will see if that works, otherwise I will need to buy some old cheap AMD GPU that supports 240p
will report results back here if thread is still up
>Is there a way to play arcade games on a consumer CRT TV at the proper resolution and refresh rate?
Yes, there is. At a lot of FGC locals I go to, some people prefer to bring a consumer TV and wire up a supergun with their JAMMA PCBs.
>I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the 15KHz vs. 31KHz and how that works in relation to emulating/using MiSTer to play arcade games
15khz is the standard consumer TV refresh rate. 31khz is VGA. You will learn that most classic arcades, and to an extent, some vintage computers will use 15khz displays. If you find yourself with a 31khz display, you will need a scandoubler in order to play games intended for a 15khz display on a 31khz display. Arcade games that require a 31khz display will be less of a hassle to connect to a PC CRT, which will mostly be NAOMI, I don't know of any other older arcades. You will have trouble in the middle though which is for arcade games that used 24khz displays.
The MiSTer will solve your problems when it comes to playing most 15khz or 24khz games (at the moment, this is mostly computer cores) on a 31khz display, but it won't go backwards without a compromise. If you want to play 31khz or 24khz content on a 15khz, you need to define a modeline that forces the output to work on a 15khz display but I have not tried it and cannot confirm if this part is true.
>24khz games
People keep bringing it up here but didn't name a single game that actually use that so far.
>you need to define a modeline that forces the output to work on a 15khz display but I have not tried it and cannot confirm if this part is true.
It works but the results aren't pretty. I tried forcing X68000 core to do that, DOS looks unusable of course but the games that are supposed to be 15KHz and aren't because the core is unfinished look kinda alright, though vertical scrolling was uneven, since it's downscaling from 800x600 instead of 480p because the core is fricking unfinished
Also did it to AO486 core but then realized I don't know a single DOS game I want to play so only saw a horribly mangled DOS promt
>People keep bringing it up here but didn't name a single game that actually use that so far.
The only one I can think of is the classic beatmania games and maybe Dance Dance Revolution; do note that these games don't have a core on MiSTer.
The most notable ones are mid 90's sega games,
Virtual On, Virtua Fighter, Daytona and Sega Rally.
None of them work on mame though so unless OP is planning to hunt down theis PCBs there's no point worrying about 24KHz bullshit.