It's a generic xenophobic slur used against all foreigners including foreign-born Dark Elves.
Calling it racist is like saying the word Black person applies to people of Irish descent.
>but the really cool parts (racism, colonialism, slavery) aren't politically correct
Are folks on here really so stupid to not see the game being critical of these things?
depends on what character you're talking to. there's nothing to say that the player can't sympathize with the attitude of the Dark Elves. when you find a group of slaves in a dungeon, leaving them there will not fail your quest.
>Are folks on here really so stupid to not see the game being critical of these things?
Did you just wake up from a ten year coma? Depiction = endorsement now.
colonialism and slavery are at odds in morrowind though, being critical of both as a blanket statement seems contradictory unless the message is supposed to be "slavery is bad but it's bad to make other cultures end slavery"
I never really got the sense it was trying to have any sort of message on those topics, but rather just to depict them in a way that feels real
Which bit of the game do you think is colonialism?
The Imperials aren't forcing a takeover, they're more trying to get Morrowind/Vvardenfell to join an alliance (kinda like the EU)
homie what, the empire invaded, kicked their ass, destroyed their capital city, and then signed the armistice to make them an imperial subject. None of the natives wanted it except for Hlaalu.
Yes. See: the book you linked, alongside the Barenziah books which explain how Mournhold fell to the Legion before the signing of the Armistice. Morrowind was on their back foot and the Tribunal's power was weakening with only the Numidium to negotiate with to keep their traditions of house wars and slavery.
Yes. See: the book you linked, alongside the Barenziah books which explain how Mournhold fell to the Legion before the signing of the Armistice. Morrowind was on their back foot and the Tribunal's power was weakening with only the Numidium to negotiate with to keep their traditions of house wars and slavery.
tbh it feels like the sacking of mournhold got silently retconned since the writing of barenziah; it'd make sense if it was near the border but given how deep it is it is hard to fit in with the timing, since the whole point was that morrowind avoided full-scale war by submitting early in the conflict
though the expansion of mournhold into almalexia city in the early third era would make sense as a post-war reconstruction if it did happen, and they still referenced the real barenziah in morrowind (gates of symmachus, barenziah herself and even the author of the books), editing out thorny khajiit wiener but keeping the fall of mournhold so idk
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah fair, looking around it seems like they neglect to mention it anywhere outside of those books. Probably an oversight that they never edited them post-daggerfall, since it being included in both versions of the Barenziah story, even the official sanitized historical one, would be hard to explain away as some in-game writer getting it wrong. It's too major of an event to exclude from other historical accounts.
Either way the Tribunal saw that they were going to get fricked between Septim, Dagoth, or both and took the best option they could to survive. Imperial claim over Morrowind wasn't exactly welcomed and the threat of force is what necessitated the deal, not some favorable alliance.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Hlaalu are weakling collaborating cowards and most of Cyrodil’s border with Resdyn is Hlaalu territory rather than the more northern Redorans.
>Which bit of the game do you think is colonialism?
There were some bits. The traditional Dunmer aren't fans of the growing Imperial influence at all. House Redoran begrudgingly complies due to their loyalty to the temple, unlike the previous leading temple-oriented house that mass suicided after Vivec signed Morrowind over to the empire. As it relates to slavery specifically, you can hear various perspectives from npcs in Morrowind, such as from Legion knights: >Most Imperial citizens assume the practice will die out as Morrowind adopts Imperial ways, and the subject excites little passion except among Argonian abolitionists.
Redoran nobles: >These outlanders won't be happy until slavery is outlawed. Personally, I don't want slaves. No one I know has any. But it's our right to have slaves, by law and custom, and it's none of their damn business.
Telvanni retainers: >I must tell you, all this self-righteous Western clamor against slavery is really tiresome. Our right to own slaves is protected by law -- IMPERIAL law. People who free slaves are breaking the law. It's as simple as that.
Imperial guards: >It's the law of Morrowind. Slavery is legal. The Empire doesn't like it, but the Emperor signed the Armistice, and that made it legal for the Dunmer to retain their ancient laws and customs. Now, there's some Abolitionists who say, 'To hell with the law... slavery is wrong.' I'm not saying I disagree, in theory. But it's the law.
Various Dunmer citizens: >Have you noticed, for all its proclamations about protecting the rights of property and preserving law and order, the Imperial legion does little enough to capture and prosecute abolitionists? That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
They paint a picture of a culture trying to preserve its identity despite their 'enlightened' foreign rulers. Hell, driving out the outlanders and restoring their dignity is one point both the Nerevarine prophecy and Dagoth Ur's motives share.
>I must tell you, all this self-righteous Western clamor against slavery is really tiresome. Our right to own slaves is protected by law -- IMPERIAL law. People who free slaves are breaking the law. It's as simple as that.
Telvanni norfs best as usual.
Simple as.
Interesting to have a fantasy Roman Empire be so anti-slavery when the real one was quite fond of it. It is nice that the setting takes the time to explain this position (the humans that founded the empire had lived under generations of nightmarish slavery under elves and the empire actually began as a successful slave revolt) rather than just acting as though slavery is obviously evil on its own merit because we consider it to be in modern society. It even explains why they didn’t just become the slavers of their old masters: they didn’t want to enslave the elves, they wanted to completely genocide them and did so.
better? I don't know if I would use that word, but Xenogears is on par with it. I would say Morrowind and Xenogears are the best examples of setting, worldbuilding and lore in all of rpgs.
It isn't though. It's a fantasy world undergoing the industrial revolution where tech and magic are diametrically opposed. The steampunk elements are from a long lost civilization.
Arcanum was only game which made me feel like i traveled in time to industrial revolution, walking throught Tarant city at night was magical, it felt like London in Victorian times. Wish there were more games like this.
This. The way they do view distance with mountain silhouettes instead of just having tons of pop-in made it so immersive compared to everything else at the time. Still holds up.
Morrowind is amazing. Skyrim with mods in mind takes the cake for "RPG world", but Morrowind really set a crazy high new watermark.
Morrowind's setting is easily one of the best in a game, but the execution of that world ingame leaves it somewhat lacking. It would benefit a lot from the dynamic NPC meme funnily enough, or anything else that can help the world feel more alive.
>I agree in that the main flaw of the game is how static everything is
I use my imagination.
I think all you really need is shop NPCs and maybe some others going to sleep at night and many NPC animations for stuff like creating potions, reading, sitting, smithing, sparring, etc. Every NPC doesn't need to have a schedule.
>Every NPC doesn't need to have a schedule
I liked that about Oblivion. Radiant A.I. was the best. I that combined with how Morrowind's conversations went, no quest markers just a journal. Where you had to commit things to memory. I would rather read than sit through voice acting.
I think all you really need is shop NPCs and maybe some others going to sleep at night and many NPC animations for stuff like creating potions, reading, sitting, smithing, sparring, etc. Every NPC doesn't need to have a schedule.
No, Oblivion went to far. It caused a lot of lag, was partially the reason the cities were closed off (insane lag if they were left open), 80% of it goes unobserved by the player yet it can't have been a simple task, FILLED with fricking bugs and errors in the schedules, created a ton of uncanny moments, etc. For a bar I think all you need is to have the bard on stage playing a small tune, the barman cleaning glasses or doing whatever, and the patrons drinking or eating. You don't need them to go home and sleep or go to some shop, it really doesn't add much to the game the way I see it. Perhaps add some contextual greetings as well that would be appropriate for people in a bar, rather than the generic greetings most everyone in a town has.
That would help, but I was also thinking that meeting NPC's on the road or in different towns at different times would work as well. For example, if members of the mage's guild teleported to different locations, or if you met a fighter's guild member outside an infested egg mine.
I think all you really need is shop NPCs and maybe some others going to sleep at night and many NPC animations for stuff like creating potions, reading, sitting, smithing, sparring, etc. Every NPC doesn't need to have a schedule.
If you're talking about making a world feel alive, Stalker is still the gold standard. NPCs were basically the player except they had tasks like artifact hunting or clearing out enemies (tasks that the player also does) but no quests to follow.
Cope harder homosexuals, just because the narrative doesn't aknowloadge something doesn't mean it's not roleplaying, in morrowind you can roleplay as a thief, as a mage, as a warrior, etc. no matter how much you seethe about it. Compare that to your average baldur's gate clone (isometric CRPGs), in which you can only select one path on a prewritten story, that's not roleplaying at all, if in a TTRPG the DM said: "you can only say either this or this", it wouldn't be an actual RPG at all, so why have you convinced yourseves that it is in videogames.
Emergent narrative is the true form of RPGs, no matter the format, selecting paths in a prewritten narrative is, at best, just a simulation of it.
>in morrowind you can roleplay as a thief, as a mage, as a warrior, etc. no matter how much you seethe about it.
You can also do that in Final Fantasy. >Compare that to your average baldur's gate clone (isometric CRPGs), in which you can only select one path on a prewritten story, that's not roleplaying at all
Bethesda games are also like that. >Emergent narrative is the true form of RPGs, no matter the format,
Bethesda games don't have emergent narratives.
>You can also do that in Final Fantasy.
I never said you couldn't, when I said that you could be anything I was responding specifically to the moron who said that morrowind isn't an RPG. >Bethesda games are also like that.
Not at all, you fricking moron, do you even know how to read? I quote:
"baldur's gate clones... in which you can only select one path on a prewritten story".
In all of their games you can always opt to ignore the prewritten narrative and go do your own buisness, how is that following one path on a prewritten story? Read again and don't respond until you read properly this time, or play the games you are shitposting about. >Bethesda games don't have emergent narratives.
I think you should check the definition of emergent narrative because the moment you step out of the main quest in their games it's all emergent narrative, not prewritten.
Go play telltale games with turn based combat you homosexual and stop shitting over actual RPG discussion.
Side content is not the same as an emergent narrative. Most RPGs let you grind trash mobs indefinitely. "The main character went into his 50th samey random dungeon and killed some trash mobs and picked up some trash loot" is not an emergent narrative, that is the experience Todd intended you to have.
If you murdered an NPC and then their friend hunted you down for revenge, not as part of a prewritten quest, but purely because the AI is sufficiently advanced to make that happen, that would be an emergent narrative. If you looted a billion pieces of equipment from dungeons and sold all of them, and this crashed the prices of weapons and armor and drove the blacksmiths out of business, that would be an emergent narrative. Things like that don't happen in Bethesda games.
The player can intercat with that side content in an emergent way in the sense that there's not a predetermined way of handling them, in other words, the player has complete agency, there's no predefined order in which the events happen.
Even though I agree in that TES systems are not that deep and dynamic, its mechanic systems have suficient complexity as to allow some basic emergent stories, specially daggerfall which is a complete medieval fantasy life sim.
It's generic but it has a superior atmosphere. STALKER is just wrecked buildings and dry foliage, but you put a few desolate souls around a campfire playing guitar and it becomes a fantastic world. Same deal as Gothic. There's nothing special about the setting or history, but it's a bunch of losers trapped in a prison colony where everything's covered in mud, you eat bugs, but you get by anyways by hauling yourself up one of a few predatory hierarchies. It's the world as you experience it more than the world as lore.
You are right, those are atmospheric games, but I don't think that that's what the thread is about.
In morrowind if you decide to roleplay as a serial killer and you kill all important NPCs, how is that inagination time and not roleplaying exactly? Again, in morrowind, just because it's not represented textually in dialogue doesn't mean it didn't happen, unlike other RPGs where you may not deviate from the narrative path, and you only have a role if the story recognizes you as such.
Also: >Go see a therapist.
That fricking projection holy frick
>In morrowind if you decide to roleplay as a serial killer and you kill all important NPCs
That's not roleplaying that's you pressing W and then clicking M1 in front of an NPC.
You're not offered a story, or dialogue options, or the chance to actually do it. It's no different from trapping a Sim in a pool and make them drown.
>just because it's not represented textually in dialogue doesn't mean it didn't happen
If it's not represented in the story then it didn't happen. You're playing imagination time. You're giving your character a motivation outside of what the game allows you to do since at no port does the game let you proclaim "Mmm I'll be a murder hobo", no, you have no dialogue options, you just walk around aimlessly fulfilling a shallow journal and reading the wikipedia pages the NPCs throw at you.
It's really not hard to not be a schizo, if the game doesn't let you do anything, then don't do it, there's no reason to play imagination time and say "Ohhh my super cute half dunmer half orc half princess dyke 15 year old 9999 year old mary sue mage Nerevarine killed everyone haha I'm so good at roleplaying!".
>That's not roleplaying that's you pressing W and then clicking M1 in front of an NPC.
This is an argument for Morrowind's merits as a video game rather than as a roleplaying game.
Tabletop D&D doesn't come with pre-written dialogue options either, and rendering certain npcs immortal for the sake of a pre-written story is just bad railroading.
Trapping a Sim in a pool to make them drown is akin to feeding your creature villagers in Black&White to roleplay as an evil God.
Anyway, I'm happy you were finally able to enjoy a playthrough of vaguely homoerotic nature photography now that people uploaded Hrisskar-related quest mods. Good on you!
>if the story does not acknowledge you doing something, it means it's not actually roleplaying
Can you be more moronic? I don't think so. >It's really not hard to not be a schizo
Lol, funny coming from you.
It's specifically a magical prison camp, where the prisoners murdered all the guards and are now running the show. The wider setting isn't interesting, but the area the game takes place is rather unique.
I like old Might & Magic VI-VIII classic world. Erathia, Enroth, Jadame, these things. There is nothing particularly unique, but the artstyle and how it is bunched together, that is quite awesome.
But otherwise Morrowind, yeah. Also Planescape, but Sigil already existed before the game and it was already fascinating too.
It will never cease to make me seethe that there are nearly no bronze-age vidya games (Elderborn which was great comes to mind, but that is only one game), or rpg games from more savage, uncivilized worlds in general.
>Also Planescape, but Sigil already existed before the game and it was already fascinating too.
Yeah. Planescape torment has a great setting but got off easy by taking advantage of a great setting that already existed, which docks it a few points compared to Morrowind where the developers took their boring generic setting and worked to make it interesting instead. >bronze-age vidya
While not really what one would call an RPG, although it is such a mashup it is hard to pin down, King of Dragon Pass and its sequel Six Ages take place with some mostly illiterate bronze-age barbarians. They aren’t even fully tribal, mostly clan-based. Six ages is perhaps closer to the beginning of the Bronze Age collapse though. Like planescape they benefit from taking place in an already created and interesting setting that isn’t super widely shown so it feels very fresh and alien.
It's generic but it has a superior atmosphere. STALKER is just wrecked buildings and dry foliage, but you put a few desolate souls around a campfire playing guitar and it becomes a fantastic world. Same deal as Gothic. There's nothing special about the setting or history, but it's a bunch of losers trapped in a prison colony where everything's covered in mud, you eat bugs, but you get by anyways by hauling yourself up one of a few predatory hierarchies. It's the world as you experience it more than the world as lore.
The setting of Planescape:Torment and Arcanum probably can compete with it in terms of being interesting and immersive.
Xenoblade series in general has very nice worlds to explore, even if the lore and stuff isn't that great.
And with that said there are tons of games where the "world" in itself isn't so good, but the way the world reacts to you is done much better than morrowind.
>who literally play imagination time while sitting in front of an empty table. They actually imagine themselves as warriors or female elves or mages and imagine they are killing the dragon.
Mate, that's literally what roleplaying is. Yes, imagination is a big part of roleplaying.
[...]
>You're not actually a female elf, you're not actually killing dragons, you're just playing dress up and having some imagination time with your fellow troons.
I know, it's just a game, moron.
You don't need to be schizophrenic to play a role. You know that, right? When someone acts in a Shakespeare story they have a set, they have dialogues, they interact with other actors and actually put themselves in the role of the characters.
You guys just sit on a dark room, in front of an empty table, and start waving your arms like you're flying because OHH SUDDENLY YOU'RE A DRAGON and omg you just became a woman omg now you can live your dyke fantasy!
That's not how it works. Specially not in games. If the only way a game let's you roleplay is by you being a schizo that imagines things that never happened like your Nerevarine having sex, well, then you seriously need to see a therapist.
>You guys just sit on a dark room, in front of an empty table, and start waving your arms like you're flying because OHH SUDDENLY YOU'RE A DRAGON
Stage actors call this part a rehearsal.
Oh, you're playing pretend that you're an elf female in your mom's basement because you're gonna make it big on broadway in a few days? No? You're doing it because you're a schizo that actually sees himself as an elven woman killing dragons?
Firstly, roleplaying actually involves imagination, and that doesn't mean you are a schitzo; secondly, actors don't have roles, they have scripts they have to follow, roleplaying would be more akin to improv though not really since RPGs are also games, not just plays.
I think the only schitzo here is you, though you may probably hear that a lot.
There's a difference between "Oh gee this town is about to be killed by bandits i'm gonna be empathetic towards them and try to imagine what my character would say" to "LOOK AT ME I'M ACTUALLY A FEMALE ELF HAHA I HAVE breasts AND A BLEEDING FRONT HOLE HAHA! I'm a woman!".
Open the catalog right now, and you'll see a thread made by a sexless incel who LITERALLY THINKS he's the one having sex with Triss, the dude is so mentally ill he sees Geralt of Rivia, a fictional videogame character, having fictional sex with a fictional female character, and he actually calls it "I am the one doing the creampie haha!!!".
>actors don't have roles
Wrong.
>roleplaying would be more akin to improv
No. Roleplaying involves playing a role, simple as. It doesn't require for you to DECIDE what your role is, or who's the character you're roleplaying as, or what he's going to say. People who say that kind of shit are just trannies that want to roleplay they are women.
>In morrowind if you decide to roleplay as a serial killer and you kill all important NPCs
That's not roleplaying that's you pressing W and then clicking M1 in front of an NPC.
You're not offered a story, or dialogue options, or the chance to actually do it. It's no different from trapping a Sim in a pool and make them drown.
>just because it's not represented textually in dialogue doesn't mean it didn't happen
If it's not represented in the story then it didn't happen. You're playing imagination time. You're giving your character a motivation outside of what the game allows you to do since at no port does the game let you proclaim "Mmm I'll be a murder hobo", no, you have no dialogue options, you just walk around aimlessly fulfilling a shallow journal and reading the wikipedia pages the NPCs throw at you.
It's really not hard to not be a schizo, if the game doesn't let you do anything, then don't do it, there's no reason to play imagination time and say "Ohhh my super cute half dunmer half orc half princess dyke 15 year old 9999 year old mary sue mage Nerevarine killed everyone haha I'm so good at roleplaying!".
> You can roleplay if you play imagination time and have schizo fantasies of your character talking and interacting with the world haha!
Vidya aren't real either. The pixels on your screen are just a visual aid to help users imagine the make believe story. The lines of code and triggers for npc conversation and events serve to automate the need for actual friends away similar to how supermarkets sell vegetarian substitutes for actual meat. It's why they started making multiplayer games to bridge the gap somewhat.
> the pixels on your screen are just a visual aid to help users imagine the make believe story.
So the pixels, the lines of codes, the characters models, the writing, the voice acting, the interactions with the keyboard and mouse, the fact that all of that is being powered by all the parts in your computer case are not real?
Videogames are real, the events that transpire in them are not since they are fiction. But you can even interact with said events, which you can't do in your empty table on your mom's basement in which you stand on while pretending you're an elf woman.
>So the pixels, the lines of codes, the characters models, the writing, the voice acting, the interactions with the keyboard and mouse, the fact that all of that is being powered by all the parts in your computer case are not real?
No more or less real than the oral (and occasionally transcribed) stories shared between a group of friends playing make-believe at a table with some mountain dew and Doritos every fortnight for three decades.
>Elf woman
Those people are still paying customers at the local game store. Just do some light teasing until they either stop being cringe or leave for the Tiefling table. Or if they dye their hair some poison frog colour, in which case you should figure out a way to extract them from your group ASAP.
There are better rpgs (FNV, ME2, Bloodlines) and more interesting settings (Pathologic 2) but most RPGs are interchangeable generic fantasy or techno-fantasy.
It was fine? Very elaborate lore, but the really cool parts (racism, colonialism, slavery) aren't politically correct. nowadays.
who the frick cares how "politically correct" it is
Quiet troony.
Frick off, moron.
Nice bait. You gottem.
This. "N'wah" is a racist dogwhistle and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
It's a generic xenophobic slur used against all foreigners including foreign-born Dark Elves.
Calling it racist is like saying the word Black person applies to people of Irish descent.
It is not even slur per se, it just means "foreigner" or "outsider" or "slave" at worst.
There's a reason they're called potatoBlack folk m8
True. The Irish are a nation, not a race.
They're still Black folk though.
t. n'whah
>but the really cool parts (racism, colonialism, slavery) aren't politically correct
Are folks on here really so stupid to not see the game being critical of these things?
No, Morrowind isn't critical, it is an approval. Racism is kino and based.
depends on what character you're talking to. there's nothing to say that the player can't sympathize with the attitude of the Dark Elves. when you find a group of slaves in a dungeon, leaving them there will not fail your quest.
>Are folks on here really so stupid to not see the game being critical of these things?
Did you just wake up from a ten year coma? Depiction = endorsement now.
colonialism and slavery are at odds in morrowind though, being critical of both as a blanket statement seems contradictory unless the message is supposed to be "slavery is bad but it's bad to make other cultures end slavery"
I never really got the sense it was trying to have any sort of message on those topics, but rather just to depict them in a way that feels real
Which bit of the game do you think is colonialism?
The Imperials aren't forcing a takeover, they're more trying to get Morrowind/Vvardenfell to join an alliance (kinda like the EU)
homie what, the empire invaded, kicked their ass, destroyed their capital city, and then signed the armistice to make them an imperial subject. None of the natives wanted it except for Hlaalu.
Emmm... no?
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:On_Morrowind
Yes. See: the book you linked, alongside the Barenziah books which explain how Mournhold fell to the Legion before the signing of the Armistice. Morrowind was on their back foot and the Tribunal's power was weakening with only the Numidium to negotiate with to keep their traditions of house wars and slavery.
tbh it feels like the sacking of mournhold got silently retconned since the writing of barenziah; it'd make sense if it was near the border but given how deep it is it is hard to fit in with the timing, since the whole point was that morrowind avoided full-scale war by submitting early in the conflict
though the expansion of mournhold into almalexia city in the early third era would make sense as a post-war reconstruction if it did happen, and they still referenced the real barenziah in morrowind (gates of symmachus, barenziah herself and even the author of the books), editing out thorny khajiit wiener but keeping the fall of mournhold so idk
Yeah fair, looking around it seems like they neglect to mention it anywhere outside of those books. Probably an oversight that they never edited them post-daggerfall, since it being included in both versions of the Barenziah story, even the official sanitized historical one, would be hard to explain away as some in-game writer getting it wrong. It's too major of an event to exclude from other historical accounts.
Either way the Tribunal saw that they were going to get fricked between Septim, Dagoth, or both and took the best option they could to survive. Imperial claim over Morrowind wasn't exactly welcomed and the threat of force is what necessitated the deal, not some favorable alliance.
Hlaalu are weakling collaborating cowards and most of Cyrodil’s border with Resdyn is Hlaalu territory rather than the more northern Redorans.
>Which bit of the game do you think is colonialism?
There were some bits. The traditional Dunmer aren't fans of the growing Imperial influence at all. House Redoran begrudgingly complies due to their loyalty to the temple, unlike the previous leading temple-oriented house that mass suicided after Vivec signed Morrowind over to the empire. As it relates to slavery specifically, you can hear various perspectives from npcs in Morrowind, such as from Legion knights:
>Most Imperial citizens assume the practice will die out as Morrowind adopts Imperial ways, and the subject excites little passion except among Argonian abolitionists.
Redoran nobles:
>These outlanders won't be happy until slavery is outlawed. Personally, I don't want slaves. No one I know has any. But it's our right to have slaves, by law and custom, and it's none of their damn business.
Telvanni retainers:
>I must tell you, all this self-righteous Western clamor against slavery is really tiresome. Our right to own slaves is protected by law -- IMPERIAL law. People who free slaves are breaking the law. It's as simple as that.
Imperial guards:
>It's the law of Morrowind. Slavery is legal. The Empire doesn't like it, but the Emperor signed the Armistice, and that made it legal for the Dunmer to retain their ancient laws and customs. Now, there's some Abolitionists who say, 'To hell with the law... slavery is wrong.' I'm not saying I disagree, in theory. But it's the law.
Various Dunmer citizens:
>Have you noticed, for all its proclamations about protecting the rights of property and preserving law and order, the Imperial legion does little enough to capture and prosecute abolitionists? That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
They paint a picture of a culture trying to preserve its identity despite their 'enlightened' foreign rulers. Hell, driving out the outlanders and restoring their dignity is one point both the Nerevarine prophecy and Dagoth Ur's motives share.
>I must tell you, all this self-righteous Western clamor against slavery is really tiresome. Our right to own slaves is protected by law -- IMPERIAL law. People who free slaves are breaking the law. It's as simple as that.
Telvanni norfs best as usual.
Simple as.
Interesting to have a fantasy Roman Empire be so anti-slavery when the real one was quite fond of it. It is nice that the setting takes the time to explain this position (the humans that founded the empire had lived under generations of nightmarish slavery under elves and the empire actually began as a successful slave revolt) rather than just acting as though slavery is obviously evil on its own merit because we consider it to be in modern society. It even explains why they didn’t just become the slavers of their old masters: they didn’t want to enslave the elves, they wanted to completely genocide them and did so.
You have to go back
Shut the frick up, Black person.
better? I don't know if I would use that word, but Xenogears is on par with it. I would say Morrowind and Xenogears are the best examples of setting, worldbuilding and lore in all of rpgs.
>Xenogears
I would say Arcanum's world is on par in terms of uniqueness and making you feel like you're in a different world.
Arcanum made me feel like earth's timeline was a little out of order, didn't really give a "different world" feeling at all
Arcanum is just steampunk
It isn't though. It's a fantasy world undergoing the industrial revolution where tech and magic are diametrically opposed. The steampunk elements are from a long lost civilization.
>feel like you're in a different world.
Arcanum was only game which made me feel like i traveled in time to industrial revolution, walking throught Tarant city at night was magical, it felt like London in Victorian times. Wish there were more games like this.
Morrowind and Planescape are my favorites. Too bad they are bad games.
For me, it's either Nier or Dark Souls.
those are action games anon. this is the rpg board.
>ARPG
>action role playing games
Probably WoW's, generic kino done right.
>have to play boring rts games
>can't play wow offline in a simple way
This. The way they do view distance with mountain silhouettes instead of just having tons of pop-in made it so immersive compared to everything else at the time. Still holds up.
Morrowind is amazing. Skyrim with mods in mind takes the cake for "RPG world", but Morrowind really set a crazy high new watermark.
Skyrims world is way more boring and the color palette is aweful. They really had magic in a bottle with the art design of morrowind.
Kenshi comes close
Sadrith Mora.... Home....
Telvannii fetchers GTFO.
Nice cardboard buildings lmao.
Why do all retexture mods suck at hlaalu architecture?
the last part of tides of numenera scratches that itch for me, shame about the game being rushed
you mean inside of that weird creature?
Morrowind's setting is easily one of the best in a game, but the execution of that world ingame leaves it somewhat lacking. It would benefit a lot from the dynamic NPC meme funnily enough, or anything else that can help the world feel more alive.
I can only think of Warhammer 40k and the original dark souls.
Yep, as a morrowind fan I agree in that the main flaw of the game is how static everything is.
For instance?
>I agree in that the main flaw of the game is how static everything is
I use my imagination.
>Every NPC doesn't need to have a schedule
I liked that about Oblivion. Radiant A.I. was the best. I that combined with how Morrowind's conversations went, no quest markers just a journal. Where you had to commit things to memory. I would rather read than sit through voice acting.
*I want that
You can't use your imagination to make the factiond interact with each other and make the world react to your actions.
I think all you really need is shop NPCs and maybe some others going to sleep at night and many NPC animations for stuff like creating potions, reading, sitting, smithing, sparring, etc. Every NPC doesn't need to have a schedule.
Basically all that oblivion added to make the world feel more alive.
No, Oblivion went to far. It caused a lot of lag, was partially the reason the cities were closed off (insane lag if they were left open), 80% of it goes unobserved by the player yet it can't have been a simple task, FILLED with fricking bugs and errors in the schedules, created a ton of uncanny moments, etc. For a bar I think all you need is to have the bard on stage playing a small tune, the barman cleaning glasses or doing whatever, and the patrons drinking or eating. You don't need them to go home and sleep or go to some shop, it really doesn't add much to the game the way I see it. Perhaps add some contextual greetings as well that would be appropriate for people in a bar, rather than the generic greetings most everyone in a town has.
That would help, but I was also thinking that meeting NPC's on the road or in different towns at different times would work as well. For example, if members of the mage's guild teleported to different locations, or if you met a fighter's guild member outside an infested egg mine.
If you're talking about making a world feel alive, Stalker is still the gold standard. NPCs were basically the player except they had tasks like artifact hunting or clearing out enemies (tasks that the player also does) but no quests to follow.
This game is so good, it's a peek of what true RPGs could be.
This is true. The static npcs are the worst part of morrowind
Radiant AI came too late for Morrowind. A great pity.
Mira
All of them. Morrowind is garbage and not an rpg, you don't even have choices or dialogues or anything.
This
TEStrannies btfo
Cope harder homosexuals, just because the narrative doesn't aknowloadge something doesn't mean it's not roleplaying, in morrowind you can roleplay as a thief, as a mage, as a warrior, etc. no matter how much you seethe about it. Compare that to your average baldur's gate clone (isometric CRPGs), in which you can only select one path on a prewritten story, that's not roleplaying at all, if in a TTRPG the DM said: "you can only say either this or this", it wouldn't be an actual RPG at all, so why have you convinced yourseves that it is in videogames.
Emergent narrative is the true form of RPGs, no matter the format, selecting paths in a prewritten narrative is, at best, just a simulation of it.
>in morrowind you can roleplay as a thief, as a mage, as a warrior, etc. no matter how much you seethe about it.
You can also do that in Final Fantasy.
>Compare that to your average baldur's gate clone (isometric CRPGs), in which you can only select one path on a prewritten story, that's not roleplaying at all
Bethesda games are also like that.
>Emergent narrative is the true form of RPGs, no matter the format,
Bethesda games don't have emergent narratives.
>You can also do that in Final Fantasy.
I never said you couldn't, when I said that you could be anything I was responding specifically to the moron who said that morrowind isn't an RPG.
>Bethesda games are also like that.
Not at all, you fricking moron, do you even know how to read? I quote:
"baldur's gate clones... in which you can only select one path on a prewritten story".
In all of their games you can always opt to ignore the prewritten narrative and go do your own buisness, how is that following one path on a prewritten story? Read again and don't respond until you read properly this time, or play the games you are shitposting about.
>Bethesda games don't have emergent narratives.
I think you should check the definition of emergent narrative because the moment you step out of the main quest in their games it's all emergent narrative, not prewritten.
Go play telltale games with turn based combat you homosexual and stop shitting over actual RPG discussion.
Side content is not the same as an emergent narrative. Most RPGs let you grind trash mobs indefinitely. "The main character went into his 50th samey random dungeon and killed some trash mobs and picked up some trash loot" is not an emergent narrative, that is the experience Todd intended you to have.
If you murdered an NPC and then their friend hunted you down for revenge, not as part of a prewritten quest, but purely because the AI is sufficiently advanced to make that happen, that would be an emergent narrative. If you looted a billion pieces of equipment from dungeons and sold all of them, and this crashed the prices of weapons and armor and drove the blacksmiths out of business, that would be an emergent narrative. Things like that don't happen in Bethesda games.
Radiant AI in skyrim leads NPCs to hire contract killers to take you out of you piss them off.
Oh yeah, that counts. I'll also count those giant brawls that break out in Oblivion due to friendly fire.
The player can intercat with that side content in an emergent way in the sense that there's not a predetermined way of handling them, in other words, the player has complete agency, there's no predefined order in which the events happen.
Even though I agree in that TES systems are not that deep and dynamic, its mechanic systems have suficient complexity as to allow some basic emergent stories, specially daggerfall which is a complete medieval fantasy life sim.
You are right, those are atmospheric games, but I don't think that that's what the thread is about.
> You can roleplay if you play imagination time and have schizo fantasies of your character talking and interacting with the world haha!
Go see a therapist.
In morrowind if you decide to roleplay as a serial killer and you kill all important NPCs, how is that inagination time and not roleplaying exactly? Again, in morrowind, just because it's not represented textually in dialogue doesn't mean it didn't happen, unlike other RPGs where you may not deviate from the narrative path, and you only have a role if the story recognizes you as such.
Also:
>Go see a therapist.
That fricking projection holy frick
>In morrowind if you decide to roleplay as a serial killer and you kill all important NPCs
That's not roleplaying that's you pressing W and then clicking M1 in front of an NPC.
You're not offered a story, or dialogue options, or the chance to actually do it. It's no different from trapping a Sim in a pool and make them drown.
>just because it's not represented textually in dialogue doesn't mean it didn't happen
If it's not represented in the story then it didn't happen. You're playing imagination time. You're giving your character a motivation outside of what the game allows you to do since at no port does the game let you proclaim "Mmm I'll be a murder hobo", no, you have no dialogue options, you just walk around aimlessly fulfilling a shallow journal and reading the wikipedia pages the NPCs throw at you.
It's really not hard to not be a schizo, if the game doesn't let you do anything, then don't do it, there's no reason to play imagination time and say "Ohhh my super cute half dunmer half orc half princess dyke 15 year old 9999 year old mary sue mage Nerevarine killed everyone haha I'm so good at roleplaying!".
>That's not roleplaying that's you pressing W and then clicking M1 in front of an NPC.
This is an argument for Morrowind's merits as a video game rather than as a roleplaying game.
Tabletop D&D doesn't come with pre-written dialogue options either, and rendering certain npcs immortal for the sake of a pre-written story is just bad railroading.
Trapping a Sim in a pool to make them drown is akin to feeding your creature villagers in Black&White to roleplay as an evil God.
Anyway, I'm happy you were finally able to enjoy a playthrough of vaguely homoerotic nature photography now that people uploaded Hrisskar-related quest mods. Good on you!
>if the story does not acknowledge you doing something, it means it's not actually roleplaying
Can you be more moronic? I don't think so.
>It's really not hard to not be a schizo
Lol, funny coming from you.
I don't think you've ever played a TTRPG in your life mate.
Isn't this considered avatargayging at this point?
I can recognize you from your images.
Go see a priest.
Go suck a wiener covered in shit, you fricking degenerate.
Wait a minute, you're that flaming homosexual from the other thread
kys shitdigger
No brother
Skyrim
Daggerfall
Just as good
Morrowind is a lot like daggerfall with a few differences. Instead of a frickhuge random world you have a handcrafted one.
The setting of morrowind literally ecapsulates the one of dagerfall, how can morrowind be worse then?
Yes, many.
Isn't gothic literally a D&D tier medieval fantasy world?
It's specifically a magical prison camp, where the prisoners murdered all the guards and are now running the show. The wider setting isn't interesting, but the area the game takes place is rather unique.
I like old Might & Magic VI-VIII classic world. Erathia, Enroth, Jadame, these things. There is nothing particularly unique, but the artstyle and how it is bunched together, that is quite awesome.
But otherwise Morrowind, yeah. Also Planescape, but Sigil already existed before the game and it was already fascinating too.
It will never cease to make me seethe that there are nearly no bronze-age vidya games (Elderborn which was great comes to mind, but that is only one game), or rpg games from more savage, uncivilized worlds in general.
>Also Planescape, but Sigil already existed before the game and it was already fascinating too.
Yeah. Planescape torment has a great setting but got off easy by taking advantage of a great setting that already existed, which docks it a few points compared to Morrowind where the developers took their boring generic setting and worked to make it interesting instead.
>bronze-age vidya
While not really what one would call an RPG, although it is such a mashup it is hard to pin down, King of Dragon Pass and its sequel Six Ages take place with some mostly illiterate bronze-age barbarians. They aren’t even fully tribal, mostly clan-based. Six ages is perhaps closer to the beginning of the Bronze Age collapse though. Like planescape they benefit from taking place in an already created and interesting setting that isn’t super widely shown so it feels very fresh and alien.
King of Dragon Pass is pretty cool.
I'm playing Baten Kaitos ATM and it's world is crazy cool.
Dread Delusion is only in EA but the setting is fascinating
Well, the devs say its Morrowind inspired. Not the setting itself, but the way its built with the amount of detail and such.
Not seeing it, there isn't even basic lighting.
Gothic is as generic as you can get.
shush, Morrowind vs Gothic flamewars are the best
Can you leave him alone? You're such a weirdo.
It's generic but it has a superior atmosphere. STALKER is just wrecked buildings and dry foliage, but you put a few desolate souls around a campfire playing guitar and it becomes a fantastic world. Same deal as Gothic. There's nothing special about the setting or history, but it's a bunch of losers trapped in a prison colony where everything's covered in mud, you eat bugs, but you get by anyways by hauling yourself up one of a few predatory hierarchies. It's the world as you experience it more than the world as lore.
it was nice
Yes, I'm working on it right now
Prove it.
The setting of Planescape:Torment and Arcanum probably can compete with it in terms of being interesting and immersive.
Xenoblade series in general has very nice worlds to explore, even if the lore and stuff isn't that great.
And with that said there are tons of games where the "world" in itself isn't so good, but the way the world reacts to you is done much better than morrowind.
>who literally play imagination time while sitting in front of an empty table. They actually imagine themselves as warriors or female elves or mages and imagine they are killing the dragon.
Mate, that's literally what roleplaying is. Yes, imagination is a big part of roleplaying.
>You're not actually a female elf, you're not actually killing dragons, you're just playing dress up and having some imagination time with your fellow troons.
I know, it's just a game, moron.
>Mate, that's literally what roleplaying is.
You don't need to be schizophrenic to play a role. You know that, right? When someone acts in a Shakespeare story they have a set, they have dialogues, they interact with other actors and actually put themselves in the role of the characters.
You guys just sit on a dark room, in front of an empty table, and start waving your arms like you're flying because OHH SUDDENLY YOU'RE A DRAGON and omg you just became a woman omg now you can live your dyke fantasy!
That's not how it works. Specially not in games. If the only way a game let's you roleplay is by you being a schizo that imagines things that never happened like your Nerevarine having sex, well, then you seriously need to see a therapist.
>You guys just sit on a dark room, in front of an empty table, and start waving your arms like you're flying because OHH SUDDENLY YOU'RE A DRAGON
Stage actors call this part a rehearsal.
>Stage actors call this part a rehearsal.
Oh, you're playing pretend that you're an elf female in your mom's basement because you're gonna make it big on broadway in a few days? No? You're doing it because you're a schizo that actually sees himself as an elven woman killing dragons?
Thought so.
Firstly, roleplaying actually involves imagination, and that doesn't mean you are a schitzo; secondly, actors don't have roles, they have scripts they have to follow, roleplaying would be more akin to improv though not really since RPGs are also games, not just plays.
I think the only schitzo here is you, though you may probably hear that a lot.
>roleplaying actually involves imagination
There's a difference between "Oh gee this town is about to be killed by bandits i'm gonna be empathetic towards them and try to imagine what my character would say" to "LOOK AT ME I'M ACTUALLY A FEMALE ELF HAHA I HAVE breasts AND A BLEEDING FRONT HOLE HAHA! I'm a woman!".
Open the catalog right now, and you'll see a thread made by a sexless incel who LITERALLY THINKS he's the one having sex with Triss, the dude is so mentally ill he sees Geralt of Rivia, a fictional videogame character, having fictional sex with a fictional female character, and he actually calls it "I am the one doing the creampie haha!!!".
>actors don't have roles
Wrong.
>roleplaying would be more akin to improv
No. Roleplaying involves playing a role, simple as. It doesn't require for you to DECIDE what your role is, or who's the character you're roleplaying as, or what he's going to say. People who say that kind of shit are just trannies that want to roleplay they are women.
If you don't choose what role to play as, and you don't choose how to play that role, it's not roleplaying, it's just acting.
>it's not roleplaying, it's just acting.
Are you stupid?
Oh yes I guess all TV shows and movies are recordings of people roleplaying.
this but unironically
Hey, Farquaad. Keep avatar-gayging.
Vidya aren't real either. The pixels on your screen are just a visual aid to help users imagine the make believe story. The lines of code and triggers for npc conversation and events serve to automate the need for actual friends away similar to how supermarkets sell vegetarian substitutes for actual meat. It's why they started making multiplayer games to bridge the gap somewhat.
>Vidya aren't real either.
Videogames are real, stupid frick.
> the pixels on your screen are just a visual aid to help users imagine the make believe story.
So the pixels, the lines of codes, the characters models, the writing, the voice acting, the interactions with the keyboard and mouse, the fact that all of that is being powered by all the parts in your computer case are not real?
Videogames are real, the events that transpire in them are not since they are fiction. But you can even interact with said events, which you can't do in your empty table on your mom's basement in which you stand on while pretending you're an elf woman.
>So the pixels, the lines of codes, the characters models, the writing, the voice acting, the interactions with the keyboard and mouse, the fact that all of that is being powered by all the parts in your computer case are not real?
No more or less real than the oral (and occasionally transcribed) stories shared between a group of friends playing make-believe at a table with some mountain dew and Doritos every fortnight for three decades.
>Elf woman
Those people are still paying customers at the local game store. Just do some light teasing until they either stop being cringe or leave for the Tiefling table. Or if they dye their hair some poison frog colour, in which case you should figure out a way to extract them from your group ASAP.
Say what you will about the gameplay (or rather lack thereof), but the worldbuilding is unmatched.
Easily my favorite setting. I felt like I'd lived in Revachol after I was done. Can't wait for their next game which is allegedly in the same setting.
In terms of uniqueness and vibe? No.
There are better rpgs (FNV, ME2, Bloodlines) and more interesting settings (Pathologic 2) but most RPGs are interchangeable generic fantasy or techno-fantasy.
Gosh Argonians be so CUTE in Morrowind? Here's mine.
Love the feet. True amphibians
Last one. Balmora... openmw
troony
>Here's mine.
You forgot the bracers.
What a s'wit.
Trails of Cold Steel starring the likable protagonist Rean Coldsteel
First reply is reddit tier AKA muh BLM in role play games
Elsa of Arendelle - notorious pedo shitposter - swarms gay screenshots...
SAD !!
HIDE
DELETE
What is the first word that comes to mind when you see the word N'wah?
Mine is ______.
Fallout New Vegas
Oh my god, bring back the orange filter. I hate this.