>The writing is absolutely awful.
So is 2's writing anythime Kreia isn't on screen, don't even pretend she didn't carry the absolute frick of that game.
>So is 2's writing anythime Kreia isn't on screen
Bullshit. The dialogue for even a shitty character like GO-TO is on point.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Goto's problem is that he doesn't have enough influence opportunities, which is the reason I only recently learned the droid his AI uses was the one stolen from the Ithorians on Telos and not from the game itself
1 follows the standard Bioware writing pattern of the time, Dragon age Origins and Jade Empire have the same story beats.
>shit happens at start of game (Attack on the Endar spire, Darksawn attack, attack on school) >have to travel across the game world to find or collect something >unexpected interruption happens where the PC is revealed to be super special for whatever reason and are the only one that can resolve the plot >grandiose ending
I do think KOTOR 1 was the first to do this, but it is kind of a bummer how the structure stays the exact same in every game. I started noticing in Mass Effect 1 for the first time and it kinda soured the experience.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Some of it they cribbed from the Baldurs gate games that they made before KOTOR. Kotor was the first with that formula though, which the stuck with for quite a long time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I used to find it comforting, but it begins to feel very Assassin's Creed-like once you've played enough Bioware games.
I do think KOTOR 1 was the first to do this, but it is kind of a bummer how the structure stays the exact same in every game. I started noticing in Mass Effect 1 for the first time and it kinda soured the experience.
We have a graph for this anons >created by Ian Miles Cheong
huh
2 years ago
Anonymous
Figures someone would be enough of an autist to put it on a chart.
2 years ago
Anonymous
whoever wrote this had a hardon for DragonAge, it should be pure blue too
2 years ago
Anonymous
>whoever wrote this
His name is right there in the bottom left, but IIRC he doesn't write about video games anymore. Just obsesses about American politics while living in Malaysia. The eyes of the World are Upon Us I guess.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>homosexual didn't make the "four main locations" square for Jade Empire yellow
fricking gay
2 years ago
Anonymous
I still need to play Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 and Jade Empire. I know enough about Baldurs Gate to know it's generally considered a good game but what's the deal with Jade Empire?
2 years ago
Anonymous
The cynical take is that it's baby's first journey to the west don't fricking do it. Take the naivete and the childish morality of Kotor 1 and magnify it by 10. And this is from someone who actually quite enjoyed Kotor 1.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's KOTOR 1 but set in fantasy Asia and also kinda an action RPG
2 years ago
Anonymous
It is entirely an action rpg.
With tank controls!
2 years ago
Anonymous
I haven't played those two either as well as Neverwinter Nights, which I've heard is more of a co op game?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's not bad actually, I always liked it, fantasy china is p cool
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jade Empire sucks because you have to play a chink and can't be white.
2 years ago
Anonymous
One of the female MC models barely looks asian at all. There you go.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Being a woman
Even worse.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The game’s token white representative is the ur-example of based to be fair.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jade Empire is a cool game and I really love it once it opens up at Tien's Landing and the Imperial City. The main problem is that it tells you it has a cool morality system that isn't just "good and evil", but then all the moral choices are just good and evil.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Literally every bioware game does this and I don't know why anyone pretends it's not the case. This is probably why I think Kotor 2 is a crock of shit because they try to obfuscate this for like 90% of the game only for them to inevitably go "lol suprise bet your expectations were subverted" like you didn't see it coming from the word go.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The JE morality should have been an X-Y axis. One for Good-Evil and another one for Palm-Fist. Though admittedly, and Open Palm evildoer makes frick all sense.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Open Palm evildoer makes frick all sense
I give you what you need so that you are in debt to me later on.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I help beggars so they survive on the streets to accumulate enough collective resentment towards the rich nobility to launch a bloody revolution that would result in an emergence of a totalitarian empire of cruelty
2 years ago
Anonymous
Get out of the bathtub Marat
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
What's the deal with its morality then?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Altruistic at cost of material or corporeal sacrifice versus Pragmatist at the cost of spiritual or ethical sacrifice , but often altruism forgetting the sacrifice part and pragmatism forgetting or fudging the gain. So basically Gaider’s first attempt and really every subsequent attempt at this
2 years ago
Anonymous
All of which is bullshit in a moment of crisis where you've got a gun to your head or the head of a loved on and you're being made to choose by threat of force.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The idea of the Open Palm vs the Closed Fist. Open Palm is the idea that you should give freely to those in need. Closed Fist is the idea that giving people what they need makes them weak, and people should be forced to take matters into their own hands. It doesn't work out this way.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Closed Fist just sounds like what Kreia says to you when you do some side quests, that solving other peoples problems stops them becoming stronger themselves.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In theory yes but the game forgets and makes it just le bad option half the time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nope, turns out that was just her fricking with you and would have called you out in it no matter what you do. Bit like that fricker in Winterhold in Skyrim when you're doing the mage ward tutorial and you basically get dunked on no matter what.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jade Empire is a cool game and I really love it once it opens up at Tien's Landing and the Imperial City. The main problem is that it tells you it has a cool morality system that isn't just "good and evil", but then all the moral choices are just good and evil.
Amusingly, i feel Mass Effect pulls off JE's morality concept far better than JE itself. Renegade shep is definitely a Closed Fist individual, rarely crossing the line to straight up evil psycho behaviour, though a few moments are still there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's because renegade and paragon Shep aren't really that normatively different from one another. It's just the game lets you occasionally make choices that seem to go to extremes but then it goes back to normie Shep straight after.
Basically all the characters in these games would qualify for being bipolar as frick.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Quite a few of the Kotor ones also fit 2.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I miss the times when ME's biggest criticism point was "KOTOR with guns" instead of sequels being GOW wannabe with capeshit-tier horrible writing.
1 has le epic twist and that's about it. 2 was unfinished, but frick me at least it tried to do something different than "haha blue lightsaber gud, red litesaber bad"
>touched le nerve have I? just admit you don't actually like le game and aren't actually le clever and your le self-humiliation will end...I know because am le clever psycholoogist! not le insecure! that's why not I le avatargay despite saying le nothing...touched le nerve have I?!!!!!
2 years ago
Anonymous
touched a nerve have I? just admit you don't actually like this game and aren't actually clever and your self-humiliation will end
>is this le pseudhomosexualry that kotor 2 lovers think makes them look le clever? le LOL lmao le laughing because *I* am le clever
>those reactions are... le yours!
is this the kind of pseudhomosexualry that kotor 2 lovers think makes them look clever? LOL
BASEDDUEL
BASEDDUEL
BASEDDUEL
DO IT homosexualS
2 years ago
Anonymous
please cope, seethe and dial 8 after the tone
Everyone else in this thread is a homosexual pretty much. Especially the basedjak poster that just uses that image for anything he doesnt personally like, like a actual basedjak would. Anyways both are good, end of thread
>explain it
KOTOR 1 is the same bland Star Wars story that has been repeated 5000 times. BioWare has no fricking clue how to make a villain beyond literally adding diabolical laughter and having him kill millions for no reason at all. This isn't to say that KOTOR 1 is a bad game. Even its writing is good at some points, but not nearly all the time, with tons of cheesy dialogue and character interactions, really bad humor, and again, some of the worst villain writing ever. It is far outdone by KOTOR 2.
KOTOR 2 in contrast is far from a normal Star Wars story. Instead of just buying into the same shit, it acts as a deconstruction of the Star Wars story as well as a critique on how fricking poorly written the Force is. Kreia is a massive filter for morons because they can't seem to grasp the idea of an ally that challenges what you do and makes you think about your actions. She's a foil not just for the protagonist, but the player's own morality. The villains in KOTOR 2 is on the opposite end of the quality spectrum. The Sith are aggressive, capable, and have reason behind their actions aside from "CONQUER LE GALAXY XDXDXD". The big bad evil villain can be said to have a reason that is hard to argue against, and you are given the option to allign with them. Meanwhile, general conflict is usually done under the idea that the protagonist is put in a very shitty or bad situation and has to be smart and work their way out of it, rather than KOTOR 1 where it's just abusing the purposefully bad and incapable villains. All the while, the game has a sense of mystery, wonder, and serious undertones and incredibly deep companion interactions.
KOTOR 2 is simply better. This is all ignoring the clearly better UI and game mechanics present in KOTOR 2.
you are exactly the type of pseudointellectual homosexual i am talking about
>explain it
KOTOR 1 is the same bland Star Wars story that has been repeated 5000 times. BioWare has no fricking clue how to make a villain beyond literally adding diabolical laughter and having him kill millions for no reason at all. This isn't to say that KOTOR 1 is a bad game. Even its writing is good at some points, but not nearly all the time, with tons of cheesy dialogue and character interactions, really bad humor, and again, some of the worst villain writing ever. It is far outdone by KOTOR 2.
KOTOR 2 in contrast is far from a normal Star Wars story. Instead of just buying into the same shit, it acts as a deconstruction of the Star Wars story as well as a critique on how fricking poorly written the Force is. Kreia is a massive filter for morons because they can't seem to grasp the idea of an ally that challenges what you do and makes you think about your actions. She's a foil not just for the protagonist, but the player's own morality. The villains in KOTOR 2 is on the opposite end of the quality spectrum. The Sith are aggressive, capable, and have reason behind their actions aside from "CONQUER LE GALAXY XDXDXD". The big bad evil villain can be said to have a reason that is hard to argue against, and you are given the option to allign with them. Meanwhile, general conflict is usually done under the idea that the protagonist is put in a very shitty or bad situation and has to be smart and work their way out of it, rather than KOTOR 1 where it's just abusing the purposefully bad and incapable villains. All the while, the game has a sense of mystery, wonder, and serious undertones and incredibly deep companion interactions.
KOTOR 2 is simply better. This is all ignoring the clearly better UI and game mechanics present in KOTOR 2.
>The Sith are aggressive, capable, and have reason behind their actions aside from "CONQUER LE GALAXY XDXDXD".
You're not talking about Nihilus i hope, because his whole motivation is to devour the entire galaxy, since he's quite literally incapable of doing anything else.
Nihilus wasn't your average conquer the galaxy bad guy. He was more like a eldritch force of nature. Not complicated but rather unique as far as video game villans go.
> We need a bad guy that isn't just a bad guy. > Uh... What do you mean... > Well, so far most the bad guys in star wars have been like trying to take over the galaxy or crime lords or stuff like that. What about a bad guy that literally destroys planets. > What... You mean like the emperor did? > No it's completely different from that!
Planescape is fine, but ever since Avellone has had his head up his ass and his fanboys eat up whatever he shits out (yet you never see them talk about the especially shit ones like Wrath of the Righteous)
2 years ago
Anonymous
Avellone worked on Wrath?
2 years ago
Anonymous
He was a lead narrative designer iirc. Areelu does feel like she has elements of his hag characters like Ravel and Kreia.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He has "worked" on every CRPG in the last decade it feels like, even if all he did was write 1 companion or 1 quest.
Avellonegays are mentally ill so they pretend it's fine when he does le ebin subversion/deconstruction while seethe about someone like Lucas or Rian Johnson doing it.
>muh failed writer is ackutually good
Anyone who writes for video games is a shit writer anon, otherwise they wouldn't write for vidya.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tells you a lot about how bad the Lucas' and Bioware's writing was then, doesn't it. didn't even say he is a good writer, just that it was better than those attempts, but I understand it's hard to argue when you are wrong anon, keep at it
2 years ago
Anonymous
Don't be so cynical, sure there are a lot of shit writers in video game industry, but most writers are shit anyway, it's no biggie
Subversion and deconstruction is not always a hostile criticism. Say what you want about the game and avellone, but he clearly cared about making a star wars game, not just the lore but the aesthetic and storytelling, his subversion of the themes are not cheap "haha get it? bet you didn't think of that bro", corporate shit will never feel the same no matter how much money they pour into it.
>EXPLAIN WHY ITS BAD! >oh THAT explanation? uhh ummm uhhhh YOU'RE WRONG!
you didn't explain shit and just used the fricking factory default talking points >it is... le deconstruction! >it is... le smartest star wars product! >kreia is... le morally grey!
This image is a meme right? This feels like it's trying to make Obsidiangays look bad more then shit on Biocucks. >Kotor 1 is Saturday cartoon villain >Kotor 2 is for edgy nihilists with a wicked sense of humour, just like me!
Like Kotor 1 is for Kids and Kotor 2 is for 14 year old teenagers with dyed black hair and piercings who think being dark and edgy is deep.
If Sion wasn't able to rape her the normal way then he probably did other things. Lesbian rapists exist and they don't have penises either
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sion keeps his body together by willpower, willing his shredded dried out dick erect would be a relatively trivial thing in comparison and likely hurt him a lot making him stronger.
>"I suffered... indignities..." >*cuts away to Nihilus looking on approvingly*
Sounds like raep to me, bruv.
t. If I were Sion I would have raped her
2 years ago
Anonymous
It matches his personality and Oedipus Complex in relation to Kreia, yes.
Sion keeps his body together by willpower, willing his shredded dried out dick erect would be a relatively trivial thing in comparison and likely hurt him a lot making him stronger.
I'd be surprised if Nihilus even knew what a sex drive is anymore, but Sion 100% gets off to rape and like some other anon said, if he can't personally do it with his dick then he'll find a way.
He's the lord of pain, and what better way to inflict physical and especially psichological pain onto others than by violating them?
I've never been sure on this just for the >Reference to band: BAD >Reference to thing video game does: PEAK OF HUMOR
bit. That's a thing I'd see Ganker shit on games for more then often for being "lol video games amirite gamers?"
>Edgy means good writing
This was made by a teenager wasn't it? The type who thinks Pokémon would be more epic if instead of getting knocked out they were killing each other.
>It's constantly comparing the writing of the two >No bro trust me, it's just saying one is bad, not that the other is good
It outright refers to Sion as a legitimate threat. The creator of the image clearly had a bias for Kotor 2.
TOR retroactively making the fall of Revan and the Mandalorian wars just a setup for it's new villain was such a massive dick move from nu-BioWare i'm surprised acts of terrorism weren't commited.
i really like the theme of the scars of war
just about every party member you have and planet you go to has been adversely affected by all the wars the space wizards have been waging. you see all the wreckage, the pollution, the refugees, the orphans. it’s basically a game about cleaning up after all that
it’s the post-star wars star wars, and yes i’m aware how douchey that sounds
it’s a star wars thing that’s actually about something and not just some hero’s journey fantasy adventure, and there’s nothing wrong with campy adventure it’s just not really anything special
kotor 1 was some by-the-books star wars stuff and it was perfectly good, but i like 2 better almost entirely on the writing and themes
also kotor 2 t3-m4 is actually a character and not just a literal plot device that was there to open a door
300k, because the loot tables in 2 are semi-randomised and this is one of the objectively better aspects of the game compared to the first, and it’s weird it never really gets mentioned when people get into pointless fights about it.
I just wish you got your Jedi clothes nice and early through story progression like in the first one. Getting unlucky with the loot and having to wait until i'm halfway through the game intil i FINALLY happen upon some proper robes drives me nuts.
I don’t deny the loot tables could have been refined in 2, though I guess I’ve been lucky and always had -some- robes in at the latest the first visited world. But I’d take that over finding the same blaster in the same barrel every time because I still play both of these games nearly two decades later.
Plus by 2 either episode 2 or 3 had been out and they remembered the robes could look like robes and not a nearly skintight thing. God I hated the robes in 1
It gives the game more replay value certainly, especially when you abandon your obsession with Jedi equipment and make most of what equipment you acquire in the game.
>kotor 2 thread >no discussion about actual game, just mandatory midwit arguments over philosophy
I'm convinced philosophical discussions are the absolute most useless activity that human beings can engage in. It only attracts the absolute most Dunning-Kruger motherfrickers on the face of the Earth.
Guess you just gotta buff the crap out of yourself and wail on him. I don't remember the fight being particularly hard, but i always end up going guardian/marauder and unga-bunga my way through the game.
Everyone else in this thread is a homosexual pretty much. Especially the basedjak poster that just uses that image for anything he doesnt personally like, like a actual basedjak would. Anyways both are good, end of thread
I only played KOTOR 1 years later and i already knew about the Revan twist, but it remember thinking "man, they're making this REALLY fricking obvious, aren't they?"
I can't image anyone back in the day not calling it way before the reveal.
>I can't image anyone back in the day not calling it way before the reveal.
I was floored when I saw it the first time, but I was also like 10 years old.
I mean if you're aware of the twist already, you're obviously going to pick up on all the foreshadowing and hints of it prior.
Also it was 2003, most posters were either kids or not even born yet.
I went to the wookie planet first so I got Jolee, between him and Bastila I didn't ever need her.
I think if she's in the party both her and Jolee insist on coming with you into the temple in the endgame.
DS is definitely more injoyable, but i always have to suspend my disbelief when your virtuous party members stick with you even when it's clear you're just another fallen darksider maniac. At least in Kotor 1 half your group tries to bail on you if you decide to retake your Revan title.
It's funny dragging Carth along and watching him impotently comment on you doing objectively evil stuff. Guy needs a backbone, especially since all he does is whine about betrayal while you set up the most obvious red flags possible.
Making Zalbaar kill Mission is some ice cold shit.
Is it actually a remake or just a new RPG using the SW KOTOR branding?
Honestly I would prefer just making an entirely new game and plot, both kotors still play fine so I can go back to them, I want something new to play.
You know those 3% shots in XCOM? The ones that you know perfectly well there's no chance in hell the shot will land, but you still take it anyway, because deep down you're thinking "maybe... just maybe"
I kinda feel the same way with this.
>that filename
Frick, i had never considered that she was actually PUSHING me to sex one of the women since that'd be the closest thing to action she would have probably had in decades.
ebon hawk cargo is TSLRCM only i think
you're probably right about the other thing but RNG is RNG, i've played the game as a dark side character without finding a single dark side robe until sion
You find an average of 2-3 Jedi robes by that point in the game. Or at least I usually do. They aren't hard-locked up to a certain point like they are in KotOR 1.
Jolee is definitely one of the based choices for kotor, other than hk and bastila pretty much the only character with anything interesting to say.
Everything else I agree with though.
i use bao dur all the time that homie pops off if you leave him unarmed and he fills in a bunch of missing skill gaps for your party if you aren't playing as a sentinel
>comically long >british accent >troony voice >already starting to sound like some long winded spiel about mental health or something in the first 5 minutes
Shan't
>the 2 powers kreia teaches you in the story are beast control and breath control >the 2 biggest dangers on the surface of malachor are beasts and poison
KOTOR2 was too edgy for me. >the force is... LE BAD >*cracks planet* *sips force* [muffled] Yup... >URRRRGGGHHHHH DUDE I DIED BUT NOT REALLY LMAO DA PAIN GOTTA SPREAD DA PAIN DID I MENTION DA PAIN?!
I prefer the more simplistic approach of KOTOR.
>wake up in an infirmary that I've never seen before >all the other people inside bacta tanks are dead >some b***h gives me guff for checking the pockets of corpses for supplies
It was at that moment I realized she was full of shit.
Asian chick fits better into the canon, but Jedi Jesus will always be my homie
>tfw always pick the female Asian with the short hair and emo fringe as my canon Revan >always pick either Jedi Jesus or the tan dude with the mullet for my canon Exile
>playing nar shaddaa with TSLRCM >reach the part where you play as atton, mira, and t3, and have to fight your way back to the docks >entire party gets wiped out in 5 seconds by some gand with a stick >last save game was from before the exchange contacted us
lmao, Empire Strikes back is kiddy shit like any other star wars media you fricking moron. I get you were really impressed by "I am your father" but grow the frick up.
Yes, literally everyone in the modern games industry is too moronic to pull it off, as well as disney continuing to drive star wars into the ground with every new thing they make.
Both games are great, but RPG threads in particular just have this tendency to make anons be tribalistic morons over which developer makes better RPGs. You see it all the time if you go to /vrpg/, 80% of cRPG discussion is if Larian/Obsidian/Owlcat is better.
Both games are great, but RPG threads in particular just have this tendency to make anons be tribalistic morons over which developer makes better RPGs. You see it all the time if you go to /vrpg/, 80% of cRPG discussion is if Larian/Obsidian/Owlcat is better.
I like both but prefer replaying 2 because of the build variety and starting as a Jedi.
I should use a start as Jedi mod for 1 in my next replay.
Exile should have bent her over in front of the entire council. What would those homosexuals have done about it? Exactly. Then a decade later he could bend her over in front of the handmaidens.
one star wars game from twenty years ago strives for greater than capeshit-tier writing and moron star wars purists are still insecure about it to this day
>Every time Kotor 2 gets praised it's almost always followed by anyone shitting on 1
I hate this kind of shit. Both games are good, it's fine to have a preference but to shit on one to try and elevate the other is just being a homosexual.
Thread reminder that Jolee bindo exists as a direct refutation of Kreia’s philosophy and if they’d been on the ebon hawk at the same time the ship would have burned down within parsecs from Kreia’s sheer fricking seeething.
What i wouldn't give to see Kreia fuming with rage and throw up her drivel at Jolee for 20 minutes only for him to be all like "yeah whatever, homosexual"
its not really a refutation, jolee is ultimately a lightsider and kreia is a darksider. Jolee is mearly self aware of his apathy and Kreia is super bitter about needing the force to do fricking anything
>recognises the Force is a narrative autist that keeps Making it like poetry they rhyme every century or so. >underlines that destiny doesn’t mean personal freedom to change shit. >accepts it’s all basically pointless to try and change things and it’ll all be the same fight with different names a few centuries from now. >acknowledges directly that the Jedi get in their own fricking way more than any other entity >gets involved anyway >bangs his hot wife on the reg without it getting weird.
Embarrassing. Honestly it might just be that he’s standing next to maybe you should talk to Carth, the literal child urchin and a lesbian cat, the contrast might make him seem brighter
Considering Kreia dunks on Zez-Kai-Ell who is basically Jolee 2.0, that's a laugh. >look at me, I'm criticizing the Jedi for being dumb and not living up to their ideals while still siding with the Jedi :^)
When you meet Jolee, he has a tale about a boy helping a snake who then kills the boy after being dragged far away. So if you go full Dark Side and kill Jolee, it makes Jolee an idiotic hypocrite who knew what was coming to him and died like an idiot.
You're also not looking at it from a bigger picture. Jolee stayed on Kashyyk for twenty years, saw the wookies enslaved, and did nothing. Zez-Kai-Ell stayed on Narshadaa for years, saw the refugees suffering, and he did nothing. Both Jolee and Zez-Kai-Ell are deeply critical of the Jedi Order.
When Kreia criticizes Zez-Kai-Ell for seeing all that happens on Narshadaa and doing nothing, to be so close to understanding the Force yet refuse to give it up, it equally applies to Jolee. Not to mention that Zez-Kai-Ell sides with the Jedi the same way Jolee confronts you if you turn evil; Jolee 'leaving' the Jedi Order didn't stop him from being a Jedi.
Not really. The Star Forge is a major threat and Jolee while he has major issues with the Jedi and how they do thinks, still is a good person. Zez questions what the Jedi did wrong but doesn't ever realise what, since at the end he blindly follows the other masters and focus on you rather then the bigger more important threat. Jolee would have called the 3 masters morons for focusing on the Exile over the sith.
Jolee never talks about the Star Forge. He only considers Malak a threat and nonechalantly says that it doesn't really matter because Star Wars exists in a cycle of villains rising and heroes defeating them.
>Jolee would have called the 3 masters morons for focusing on the Exile over the sith.
Nah, he would have agreed with the Jedi Masters because he's as much of a Jedi cuck as the rest of them.
>he would have agreed with the Jedi Masters
I can't see that at all unless you were going dark side. He's a Jedi still, sure, but while he might be concerned about the Exile being a hole in the force, I can't picture Jolee thinking a Light side exile is currently the bigger threat then the 3 powerful sith lords who are still out there.
Both are fricking terrible, but the first one is closer to the genuine star wars setting by far. The greatest parts spoken of 2 are basically "subverting expectation"-tier writing and belong in the fricking trash.
I still don't really get Kreia's point. Just "think for yourself"? It's the only thing that makes sense to me with shit like the beggar scene where the game forces you to either give the bum money or threaten to kill someone for asking for change.
Basically, when she's not malding about the force. She doesn't want you to be a dick because "That's what a sith should do" or good because "Jedi always have to be good"
It's a weird point though because flip flopping will frick you gameplay wise so it's better to commit then trying to be neutral.
The bonuses to maxing out your morality points were a huge contradiction in a game that supposedly tries to make you ponder the value of adhering to the jedi/sith doctrine, and i'm not sure why it never gets brought up.
Kreia never said to be a Apathetic Grey Jedi, she just wants your reasons for your actions to be more than dogmatic adherence to ideology of the two factions.
Doesn't the secret tomb where
It wants you to pick a side though, it doesn't want you to be neutral. Apathy is death and all that shit.
occurs have a level requirement or prestige class requirement?
Despite her lying about the Jedi Council cutting you off from the Force early on she is still truthful about the requirement to gain power in order to defeat the Sith you are going to face, and full Light/Dark mastery is a part of that power.
Basically, when she's not malding about the force. She doesn't want you to be a dick because "That's what a sith should do" or good because "Jedi always have to be good"
It's a weird point though because flip flopping will frick you gameplay wise so it's better to commit then trying to be neutral.
I don’t think the point was to be neutral. The point is to think carefully behind why you do what you do. If most of your decisions are decisions that you make but happen to end up aligning closer to the Jedi philosophy then that’s fine, same with the Sith. The issue is if you let the Sith or Jedi ideology and the archetypes surrounding them be the main reason why you make your decisions, even if they don’t lead to the best outcomes
>The point is to think carefully behind why you do what you do.
Yeah but the gameplay doesn't do anything to try and tie into that. Blindly going full Jedi or Sith is objectively better for you then just doing what you feel like.
The gameplay kinda does. Kreia and your allies will admonish you. Kreia especially if you go the “designated Jedi hero” route but she will also criticize you if you become cruel for no reason. I think your allies, if they turn to the Dark side, will also criticize you if you act too cartoonishly evil
Think and *live* for yourself. Everyone misunderstands the beggar scene. The thing is that both choices represent how the audience thinks of the Light Side / Dark Side choice. The Light Side choice is always acting altruistic and selfless. That's wrong. The Jedi must intentionally act with patience because the Force ties everything together, so every choice must be considered. Atris even tells you this on Telos on why the Jedi didn't join the Mandalorian Wars.
If you go Dark Side, you think it's just being cruel randomly, but it's about being selective in your cruelty, damaging yourself a bit for larger damages and gains somewhere else, increasing one's power.
So the point isn't 'think for yourself' but 'your preconceptions of the Jedi and Sith are wrong, be manipulative.' The endpoint is that the Jedi and Sith are basically the game. This is also reflected with how the galaxy in Kotor 2 see the Jedi and Sith are the same thing but with different philosophies.
> depraved wienerslobbering fans of the second game ranting on and on about their shitheap of a game like the ultra-autists that they are.
Trash games avoid at all costs.
>can't actually discuss what he likes about the first game, can only mention that he hates about the second game
Why are 2 haters all like this? Literally nobody is able to discuss 1 on its own, just 1 in comparison to 2.
No, you miss my point you turboautist. Both games are fricking terrible except for the thin veneer of paint over the skins and the subtext that makes it "star wars". Literally the only reason you are talking about it is because of its tenuous relation to that franchise.
Because it's continued existence as a dominant position in RPG culture is fricking abhorrent and deserves very little of the respect and accrediting it garners. Anyone who unironically takes these games as having serious moral points beyond pure game mechanics needs their head checked. On this basis, I would argue the first is the purer game for not having its head jammed firmly up its own ass, but it's still guilty of it in places.
Not what I asked.
What are good games?If you say something like Baldur's Gate after this I am going to laugh.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> What are good games. > Here let me pre-emptively set up the goal posts for you.
There's a reason why I'm not bothering to answer you.
>everyone always talks about Kreia for good writing >Nobody talks about Atris
My favourite moment in point games is when you meet her for the first time and you spend most of the conversation arguing with one another about the Mandalorian wars. I always liked that bit since you get so many options to justify why your character felt going to war was necessary.
What, you mean like when you get off the boat in Morrowind and you get asked directly to your face what you would do if someone tried to steal your sweet roll? How original.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There's a reason why I'm not bothering to answer you.
Yes, and the reason is that you'd get laughed out and you know it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Implying you hadn't already decided you were going to try and force the conversation to go a certain way and now you're desperately trying to maintain the illusion of superiority. You fricking cretin.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I have always been superior? What are you saying?
You joined the thread, about a thing you apparently don't like, and said frick all except your attempts at being snide. You refuse to actually say anything or debate, you just say your "snide" one-liners and pretend you have won.
So if you'd kindly stop projecting your illusion of superiority onto me, I'd appreciate that a lot. Thanks.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nah m8 it's just you that I think is a c**t. Do enjoy that shit you're smearing around your face while you're at it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The sweetroll question in Morrowind is deciding your stats, the conversation with Atris is entirely about you deciding the RP reasoning for why Exile joined Revan, returned and how they feel about the war in general.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, you're right, the sweetroll question actually mattered.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>your character's background doesn't matter in an RPG
2 years ago
Anonymous
> Character background.
You mean headcanon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>literal text of the game isn't character background
2 years ago
Anonymous
It would be headcanon if it was anons coming up with their own reasons for how the exile felt about the war and their actions during it. Instead it's a conversation in the game itself (a optional one but still) where the player decides how the Exile feels about it.
I can't tell if you're merely pretending or not at this stage.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> A conversation in the game itself.
So, why not just have it decided for you? Wouldn't that make for stronger characterisation?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>why not just have it decided for you?
Because it's a role playing game? Why do you want everything about your role defined for you without any input? If you want that play a CDPR game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> Without input.
There's a difference between not having an input and fulfilling a role.
I like how you ended up arguing for the game you supposedly dislike
There are plenty of books in the star wars expanded universe that are many times a greater reading experience than Kotor ever offered.
2 years ago
Anonymous
books and games don't offer the same experience and you know this
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yep. At least the EU books aren't pretentious enough to try and teach me morality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Pppppfgffppffpfpgt
Thanks for this. Meme or not. I’m not even in this thread but holy shit.
Green justice lightning evil convoy shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you the type of moron who argues call of duty is a RPG because "you play the role of a solider?"
2 years ago
Anonymous
Call of duty is the fricking devil and I will not have it spoken of in my presence.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You wouldn't know, you haven't played morrowind
2 years ago
Anonymous
Implying implications. It's like it's 2005 in here.
>Role playing doesn't matter in a role playing game
Okay moron.
>literal text of the game isn't character background
Sure anons, a couple lines of text is absolutely an extraordinary weight to add to your gaming experience. Why not dispense with the formalities and just go and read a book though?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Is this you
>words words words: the game
might as well play a visual novel holy shit.
Also the game is just straight up unfinished even disregarding the ending. Game is uglier than the first one, just look at this shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Negative.
Blah blah light side blah blah dark side blah blah Jedi blah blah the force blah blah mandalorian. > Nothing of value was said.
is though.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Primarily because the thought that a bunch of people who - like me - were old enough to play the game to its fullest when it was first released 18 fricking years ago and still be banging on about the nuances of what is effectively well-produced fanwankery is downright surreal and I couldn't hold it back anymore.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sure anons
so you agree with me, argument over. >dialogue in an RPG is bad
Why are you here again?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I like how you ended up arguing for the game you supposedly dislike
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Role playing doesn't matter in a role playing game
Okay moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Implying implications. It's like it's 2005 in here.
[...]
[...]
Sure anons, a couple lines of text is absolutely an extraordinary weight to add to your gaming experience. Why not dispense with the formalities and just go and read a book though?
> Without input.
There's a difference between not having an input and fulfilling a role.
[...]
There are plenty of books in the star wars expanded universe that are many times a greater reading experience than Kotor ever offered.
Hold up, are you the same numbnuts that tried to pull this same shit in a Dragon Age general like a week ago and got laughed out of the thread?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Honestly I never got why people liked dragon age so much. Go ahead and school me on it's quality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I assume because it's the closest thing to a modern Baldurs Gate and isn't that neutered.
2 years ago
Anonymous
... Is this a thing I don't get because I'm quite happy playing ASCII games and isometrics?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Setting is actually cool and roleplaying in origins is probably the most you will get in any game. Companions also were cool, you had your usual suspects: a normal guy paladin, a sexy witch, a drunk dwarf warrior, but there were others that are yet to be replicated like based sten and golem woman. Too bad this cursed series only becomes worse with every game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Okay, but how does it play?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Standard rtwp
2 years ago
Anonymous
> Standard.
That doesn't really tell me much about game mechanics anon. Is it derived from a tabletop system with dice rolls for example.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Like a game running on an engine that makes gamebryo look nuanced and modern designed for something completely different but they -really- wanted to do something else and loved it as if it was their malformed monsterous child.
It plays like genuine fricking garbage, but garbage that was loved and cared for
2 years ago
Anonymous
What, are you referring to anything in particular, I've never had a problem with how it plays, it's very responsive with few bugs
2 years ago
Anonymous
it plays like shit and the encounter design gets really fricked up late game
>Literally nobody is able to discuss 1 on its own, just 1 in comparison to 2.
The last Kotor thread I was in had people happily discussing both without being autists trying to one up each other and prove their game was superior, so that's not true.
>everyone always talks about Kreia for good writing >Nobody talks about Atris
My favourite moment in point games is when you meet her for the first time and you spend most of the conversation arguing with one another about the Mandalorian wars. I always liked that bit since you get so many options to justify why your character felt going to war was necessary.
The entire game is well-written. Kreia is just the center piece. Atris represents the flaw of all Jedi and Sith put together. She's vindictive, arrogant, believes herself all-knowning, put the galaxy at risk with his 'manipulations' which ended up killing many Council members, she can't let go of the Force or its teachings, and she embraced evil even though she should know better.
>The entire game is well-written.
It's so true. And I'm so sick of everyone focusing on Kreia and ignoring the fact that this game is the truest to EU lore out there. It was so autistically researched and painstakingly crafted that it's an actual shame all anybody remembers from it is "le old philosopher lady lol."
Another thing I think people don’t appreciate is how perfectly it ties into the Prequel and Original Trilogies. The events of those movies end up proving Kreia right, HK-47 accurately predicts Order 66 a millennia before it happens, Kreia actually is implied to see the death of Jango Fett in her visions when predicting the legacy of the Mandolorians, the hypocrisy of the council that created Revan and Malak ends up being the same hypocrisy that creates Darth Vader, Luke’s refusal to adhere to Jedi and Sith dogmas too strictly is what leads to the redemption of Vader and so on. Also, Vader’s suit is also canonically modelled after the outfits the Sith Assassins in KOTOR 2 wear.
The series was thematically stronger for having every bit of lore lead back to the movies. This way, the movies are the Force’s end-game, while everything else is what lead up to said end game.
[...]
Amusingly, i feel Mass Effect pulls off JE's morality concept far better than JE itself. Renegade shep is definitely a Closed Fist individual, rarely crossing the line to straight up evil psycho behaviour, though a few moments are still there.
I’m pretty sure the only reason Bioware does comically edgy options is because players found them fun. Being a good guy in a Bioware game is incredibly boring. I’ll give props to KOTOR 2 and Obsidian for making the Light Side path way more interesting, even if ultimately I feel the story is more interesting from a Dark Side perspective and feels more appropriate.
I always appreaciated that conversation from a roleplaying perspective. It's even better that you even get the option to assert yourself over your decision to leave for the war, or go "yeah, i might have fricked up, we didn't help anybody in the end"
that's old hat, what made atris interesting was how palpable and authentic a portrait of repressed desire and externalized loathing they were able to paint.
Sure this part is all diamonds, the level of pure righteous indignation Kreia’s VA brings to the Jedi too.
But people never mention her initial entry to the temple. The delivery in that whole sequence is layered like a vegetable with multiple layers. Like a kiwi or something I don’t know vegetables
>ending of the game is you killing a Sith, fulfilling your duty as a Jedi, and killing your master, fulfilling your duty as a Sith
BRAVO YOU GUIDO WOP FRICK
The ending of the game is the tragic crash of the ebon hawk because atton literally crashes every single time he flys a ship.
This is canon. Remember, if you don’t think this is canon, the alternative is SWTOR.
Atton crashed and everyone died. This is what happened.
>fulfilling your duty as a Sith
Not to be autistic, but the events of KOTOR 2 predate the Rule of Two.
Your choice at the end is to either kill Kriea and destroy her Sith Academy by blowing up Malachor, or kill Kriea and become the new Dark Lord of the Sith, taking command of the Sith Assassins who populate the academy. There’s a reason that the assassins outside the academy kneel before you as you enter— They know you’ve come to kill Kriea and will likely be their new boss.
Sith still attempt to kill their master and take his place in this era, see Revan and Malak in the first game or the events in the Korriban academy. Rule of Two was just when all the weak hangers-on had been culled from the Sith.
>Kreia opens her mouth to complain or play devils advocate to my choice >"Shut the frick up." >Continue playing as a Chad Jedi hero saving the galaxy just like Kotor 1
>not picking the dark side choices >not modding the game so when all the characters chastise you your replies are all “nyer-ha-ha *twirls moustache*”
All I’m saying is Dick Dastardly seemed like he enjoyed life.
Is there a evil choice in 2 as kino as the Romeo/Juliet evil option with the farmers, where you can get everyone to shoot each other and everyone dies?
Telling the worst VA I’ve ever heard to listen to the angry red pyramid that tells her to attack moisture Vaporators installed on a fricking rural garden world sullru why the frick have you got a moisture farm on a temperate planet you fricking moron
Sorry I got distracted. I mean convincing everyone to plagueshame an old guy into volunteering into a lynching.
Both games have good content on their planets but I prefer how Kotor 2's planets tie in to the overall plot and setting of the aftermath of the Jedi Civil War, while 1 which is set during the civil war has your enemy be Czerka corps half the time (Tatooine and Kashyyyk) instead of the Sith you are supposed to be fighting in the ongoing Jedi Civil War. I Know it's because you are on a macguffin quest for the Starforge's location but it still feels like the Jedi Civil War is underused in the first game.
Strangely I think it's exactly this which makes it feel like more of a star wars-themed game. Like in A New Hope the whole Jedi thing was just an excuse for Luke to go off on an adventure and the focus was much more on the rebels vs. empire plot. Specifically I think the Sith Troopers were quite badly characterised in that game really. Like they needed stand ins for stormtroopers but couldn't use them so instead we have these dudes in silver armour.
Really loved my most recent playthrough of this. Was very gray Jedi. Was adamant that fighting at Malachor was the right thing to do and regretfully killed the Jedi since you’re locked into it even with mods if you side with that one guy in the Civil War. Was totally ok with helping people for the most part
Define "evil". In every RPG, I play a warrior of justice. I strike down the wicked and save the innocent. Most games make killing your enemies the "evil" option when you can spare them instead, but I've never agreed with that. I do not spare the villains, I ensure that they will do no further evil. Batman is a pussy.
Evil = Acts of sadism or callousness perpetrated for no other reason than "because I felt like it". It should be pointed out that - for example - Palpatine was perfectly fricking capable of rising through the ranks of the senate and becoming a voice for reason and compassion, he just didn't fricking feel like doing so.
>land onto a smugglers moon full of hostile bounty hunters looking to lay low and find a jedi among billions >some beggar homosexual is harrasing you for some change and risking exposing your cover >tell him to frick of or be killed >OH NO NO NO YOUR EBIL YOU HAVE TO ONLY DO EBIL SHIT FROM ON
>doing some tasks for a reputable mega corporation is not evil >acquiring some items and a plant for a local merchant isnt evil >pimping out a dancing girl isnt evil >shaking down a random technician for his credentials is not evil >...
Get cancer moronic corporate slave.
The game is wrong. The force is a tool to be wielded by the user, nothing more. Ultimately it's no different from strangling someone to death with your bare hands, especially in a life or death situation.
Yeah because Obi-Wans a fair one to talk lol. Wonder if Disney wars is gonna do the dirty and show him flirting with the dark side in the intermediary years like he fricking should be.
>Biggest stick in the mud of the whole franchise >Saw the good friend literally self destruct in front of his eyes and end up a psychopathic murderer >Saw a Sith lord turn a peaceful republic into an evil empire >Spends 99% of time in desert where there's no temptations >Only human interaction most of the time is Qui-Gon's ghost >"Oh boy, maybe there's merit to this dark side thing after all!"
2 years ago
Anonymous
In fairness it's only mentioned briefly but in legends he chokes a couple bounty hunters when they track him down for the Jedi reward bounty.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Obi Wan's deep pain and regret over everything that happened and all the people he lost is a great setup for him to start slipping without realizing.
Dark Side's sneaky like that, you don't necessarily have to seek it in order to get corrupted by it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
There is no passion, only peace. Until you realize passion has short term results that you can see in real time, and peace may or may not work. Then you start making compromises until out of nowhere you're shooting Sith lightning at those who won't submit to your power.
Then when the chips are down you'll pick the good option. Unless you're actually a jerk playing let's pretend in which case I'm sorry anon but you've been lying to yourself. > Ironically this explains Kotor 2 better than Kreia ever fricking did.
B-b-b-but I want to be rude to my companions and beat innocent people up for petty reasons only to get redeemed in the end by my romantic interest and be celebrated for my heroism and absolved of all crimes
Picking the evil choices should lock you out of the good choices and vice versa early on. Change my mind.
This is literally Kotor 1 vs 2.
First game the only LS or DS choice that matters is joining Bastilla at the end towards the end of the game and 2 locks you into DS if you kill one Jedi Master on any planet since the survivors will attack you on Dantooine towards the end of the game.
>The Empire is like America ten years from now, after Nixonian gangsters assassinated the Emperor and were elevated to power in a rigged election; created civil disorder by instigating race riots
Which KOTOR quest is for this feel?
>Aiding rebel groups. And allowing the crime rate to rise to the point where a 'total control' police state was welcomed by the people... We are at a turning point: fascism or revolution.
newbies think SWTOR was hated and resented without a proper reason or for some childish reasons that all the TOR this TORTANIC that homosexuals are spamming for years.
In reality it was one of the first beloved series of games that was murdered and its corpse raped and paraded around for money to shit eating normalBlack folk and fake nerds that larps as they love SW.
I'm sorry man it's just boring me to tears. Nar Shaddaa drags on, the yacht shit and the pov switches is absurd but I love muh gritty star Wars city planets.
Depends on whether or not you've gone to Iziz and finished your business there. If you're deep in the jungle and Canderous joined your party,then you just have to put up with some sith and storm the temple
Depends on whether or not you've gone to Iziz and finished your business there. If you're deep in the jungle and Canderous joined your party,then you just have to put up with some sith and storm the temple
Is Republic Commando worth playing? I completely missed it when it came out.
Carth can go frick himself.
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
Mira. You don't get perspective switches to Carth after he knocks you out. The resolution to Carth's backstory doesn't interrupt the final planet (with another perspective switch) for no reason.
>Help him get his moronic son back >Finally get him to stop crying and trust me >Finds out I'm Revan >Immediately snitches, tries to ditch me, and only reneges when the rest of the party refuses
Fricking b***h.
Kotor 2 is edgy unfinished dogshit with garbage level design, awful writing, and the worst endgame in rpg game history. A fundamental failure of a game on all fronts.
No. He was banned from the industry for having a few drinks with some old hags and making moves on one until she told him to stop, and then he stopped.
Yeah. I assume this guy. Iirc he was a good jedi general who actually gave a shit about his soldiers and then fell to the dark side when they tried to kill him and he slaughtered them all.
No. He was banned from the industry for having a few drinks with some old hags and making moves on one until she told him to stop, and then he stopped.
Pretty sure Fallen Order was already out by that point. Hell Owlcat kept his work in their game because he was already done and gone by the time it came out, I think it was mainly Techland with Dying Light who had him frick off and removed his work.
>That shit was in 2018 by summer he was already out
https://archive~~*DOT*~~ph/ppXfQ > Jun 25, 2020 >Over the past week, ...multiple women have accused Avellone of groping, harassment, and inappropriate behavior. Following the allegations, Dying Light 2 developer Techland formally cut ties with him.
Summer 2020
Avellone's writing is at its best when he is the game's lead designer too, and he hasn't done design work since the New Vegas DLCs he headed. I honestly can't tell you what he did in Fallen Order.
>Nar Shaddaa was my first proper planet
I'm sorry to hear that. What this guy
Nar Shaddaa - > Onderon/Dxun part 1 > Dantooine > Onderon Dxun Part 2 > Korriban
said is best for your sad situation. However, for anyone else's reference, the best order is objectively: >Dantooine >Dxun/Onderon >Korriban >Dxun/Onderon >stop playing, everything else is shit, especially Nar Shaddaa
utility droid's can develop personality quirks if they aren't regularly memory wiped. One of his is developing Sith powers I guess.
it is pretty weird how Kotor 1 had an entire companion they was only used to open one door once yeah
>"you're right Exile, I'm really angry and going to be a bad b***h from now on" >buys goth makeup and black clothes from hot topic >acts exactly the same as before
You first go to nar shaddaa to get the lightsaber part, then you carefully make sure to not trigger the Mira cutscene and meet the owner of the ebon hawk to get all that exp from the slavers. Finally, you fight Visas at lvl 15 and get your proper lightsaber and do whatever you want from that point onwards
Gotta get those sweet experience points maybe it was 1000? 200/400? i don't remember to pop speed 3 and start fricking shit up with fully upgraded mandalorian rippers
The underwater base is way too short to be "fricking awful". It's mediocre, but I really have no strong feelings about it. The rest of Manaan is great, though. I love getting arrested for fighting through the sith embassy.
How do I stop bring Kreia everywhere, every time I step off my ship? Even though this is my forth playthrough but my first in maybe five years. I'm always putting others on the backburner as I really just want her with me.
You guys like that w/ any KOTOR 2 part member? I like to pair her w/ Visas since she fricking hates her.
But only every rotate her, the Handmaiden and Atton. I also like to bring HK-47 out when I can. I feel I gimp some player stories this way.
Is there a best party member for each planet?
I just like her comments, snark and insight and while she's an old b***h I always rp as her being absolutely my Master.
I guess I'm asking about prime influence opportunities and if there's a big narrative advantage to bringing certain characters out on planets. I've played thiss a few times but suppose I never have really dug super deep.
>hey guys, what if this pulp fiction setting that does not support real life logic wasn't a pulp fiction setting and had real life logic crowbarred into it
It's better than the Prequels and Sequels, but it's still just space monks with lazer swords. Any effort you put into it is wasted.
>ho serfs, what if 't be true this fiction setting yond doest not supp'rt real life logic wasn't a fiction setting and hadst real life logic crowbarr'd into t
T's bett'r than the prequels and sequels, but t's still just space augurers with powd'r fireth weapons. Any eff'rt thee putteth into t is did waste
>Jedi Fallen Order
It feels so fricking vanilla. After all those great games in the past, it's just mediocre. Not to mention the Force powers are bland as hell too.
>40 year old milf geta wet at mere thought about him >big titty shorthair muscle girl worship him >My life is yours >redhead bawd says he is too old for her >main villian also amazed by him
How does he do it
i think people overexaggerate how big a deal the morally greyness in kotor 2 is
obsidian just put a lot more thought into their worlds and individual locations than bioware which results in them feeling morally complex because they feel more like real places. nowhere in the world is completely black and white with an extremely straightforward history so why would anywhere in star wars be like that?
for instance, it makes total sense that a big corporation would force their way in to the telos restoration project because the amount of influence and power it would buy them in the long term would be immense. the result is different interest groups with different ideals trying to advance their own interests which is just what life is like. a bioware kotor 2 they would have czerka deliberately trying to ruin the planet because "sith evil" is a macro story note they want to hit, which is fine for what bioware is going for but a lot of the micro story stuff tends to suffer for it
Yeah I’m inclined to agree, the appeal of KOTOR 2 isn’t necessarily that it’s morally grey it’s that it feels more like an actual setting where the people in it act like real people and that just naturally lends itself to being morally grey because it’s more like real life
Like you see the actual consequences of the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, there are refugees everywhere, the Republic is heavily destabilized due to all of the losses which leads to a coup on certain planets, average people don’t even really know the difference between the Jedi and the Sith because they’ve been fighting for so long and there’s been so much collateral damage
Nar Shaddaa is actually my favourite planet. The only thing that sucks about it is the perspective shifts. Korriban is the worst by virtue of the fact that you can tell they wanted to do more with it, but ran out of dev time.
Frick of Kreia I'm a war criminal and you know it, so lemme loot in peace.
>Kotor 2 is the best and my favourite and i am very smart for liking it and even smarter for understanding it
>explain it? uhh ummm uhhhh gotta go!
seething biowaredrone
Explain what? Why I like the game? I like the DnD gameplay, the worldbuilding, the end of days setting, the dialogue etc. It's not that complicated.
1 is better
just admit it makes you feel all special and fuzzy inside when you pretend it's good
>1 is better
I replayed it recently and no, it definitely isn't. The writing is absolutely awful.
>2 IS BETTER 2 IS BETTER 2 IS BETTER I'M SMART I'M NOT A PSEUD SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
Anon 1 is just consolized neverwinter nights wearing a star wars coat of paint. It's fine but not really that special.
1 at least had got -most- of the janky kinks out of the engine.
Most. I mean that. Compared to nwn2 or jade empire that played like you were operating a fricking 747 with your colon.
Couldn't you just call 2 consolized Neverwinter as well then?
>The writing is absolutely awful.
So is 2's writing anythime Kreia isn't on screen, don't even pretend she didn't carry the absolute frick of that game.
>So is 2's writing anythime Kreia isn't on screen
Bullshit. The dialogue for even a shitty character like GO-TO is on point.
Goto's problem is that he doesn't have enough influence opportunities, which is the reason I only recently learned the droid his AI uses was the one stolen from the Ithorians on Telos and not from the game itself
1 follows the standard Bioware writing pattern of the time, Dragon age Origins and Jade Empire have the same story beats.
>shit happens at start of game (Attack on the Endar spire, Darksawn attack, attack on school)
>have to travel across the game world to find or collect something
>unexpected interruption happens where the PC is revealed to be super special for whatever reason and are the only one that can resolve the plot
>grandiose ending
I do think KOTOR 1 was the first to do this, but it is kind of a bummer how the structure stays the exact same in every game. I started noticing in Mass Effect 1 for the first time and it kinda soured the experience.
Some of it they cribbed from the Baldurs gate games that they made before KOTOR. Kotor was the first with that formula though, which the stuck with for quite a long time.
I used to find it comforting, but it begins to feel very Assassin's Creed-like once you've played enough Bioware games.
We have a graph for this anons
>created by Ian Miles Cheong
huh
Figures someone would be enough of an autist to put it on a chart.
whoever wrote this had a hardon for DragonAge, it should be pure blue too
>whoever wrote this
His name is right there in the bottom left, but IIRC he doesn't write about video games anymore. Just obsesses about American politics while living in Malaysia.
The eyes of the World are Upon Us I guess.
>homosexual didn't make the "four main locations" square for Jade Empire yellow
fricking gay
I still need to play Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 and Jade Empire. I know enough about Baldurs Gate to know it's generally considered a good game but what's the deal with Jade Empire?
The cynical take is that it's baby's first journey to the west don't fricking do it. Take the naivete and the childish morality of Kotor 1 and magnify it by 10. And this is from someone who actually quite enjoyed Kotor 1.
It's KOTOR 1 but set in fantasy Asia and also kinda an action RPG
It is entirely an action rpg.
With tank controls!
I haven't played those two either as well as Neverwinter Nights, which I've heard is more of a co op game?
It's not bad actually, I always liked it, fantasy china is p cool
Jade Empire sucks because you have to play a chink and can't be white.
One of the female MC models barely looks asian at all. There you go.
>Being a woman
Even worse.
The game’s token white representative is the ur-example of based to be fair.
Jade Empire is a cool game and I really love it once it opens up at Tien's Landing and the Imperial City. The main problem is that it tells you it has a cool morality system that isn't just "good and evil", but then all the moral choices are just good and evil.
Literally every bioware game does this and I don't know why anyone pretends it's not the case. This is probably why I think Kotor 2 is a crock of shit because they try to obfuscate this for like 90% of the game only for them to inevitably go "lol suprise bet your expectations were subverted" like you didn't see it coming from the word go.
The JE morality should have been an X-Y axis. One for Good-Evil and another one for Palm-Fist. Though admittedly, and Open Palm evildoer makes frick all sense.
>Open Palm evildoer makes frick all sense
I give you what you need so that you are in debt to me later on.
>I help beggars so they survive on the streets to accumulate enough collective resentment towards the rich nobility to launch a bloody revolution that would result in an emergence of a totalitarian empire of cruelty
Get out of the bathtub Marat
What's the deal with its morality then?
Altruistic at cost of material or corporeal sacrifice versus Pragmatist at the cost of spiritual or ethical sacrifice , but often altruism forgetting the sacrifice part and pragmatism forgetting or fudging the gain. So basically Gaider’s first attempt and really every subsequent attempt at this
All of which is bullshit in a moment of crisis where you've got a gun to your head or the head of a loved on and you're being made to choose by threat of force.
The idea of the Open Palm vs the Closed Fist. Open Palm is the idea that you should give freely to those in need. Closed Fist is the idea that giving people what they need makes them weak, and people should be forced to take matters into their own hands. It doesn't work out this way.
Closed Fist just sounds like what Kreia says to you when you do some side quests, that solving other peoples problems stops them becoming stronger themselves.
In theory yes but the game forgets and makes it just le bad option half the time.
Nope, turns out that was just her fricking with you and would have called you out in it no matter what you do. Bit like that fricker in Winterhold in Skyrim when you're doing the mage ward tutorial and you basically get dunked on no matter what.
Amusingly, i feel Mass Effect pulls off JE's morality concept far better than JE itself. Renegade shep is definitely a Closed Fist individual, rarely crossing the line to straight up evil psycho behaviour, though a few moments are still there.
That's because renegade and paragon Shep aren't really that normatively different from one another. It's just the game lets you occasionally make choices that seem to go to extremes but then it goes back to normie Shep straight after.
Basically all the characters in these games would qualify for being bipolar as frick.
Quite a few of the Kotor ones also fit 2.
I miss the times when ME's biggest criticism point was "KOTOR with guns" instead of sequels being GOW wannabe with capeshit-tier horrible writing.
would the warden really be considered special just because he survived the joining??
1 feels like disney version of star wars
Not him but god no, kotor 1 is leagues ahead in terms of concept and execution. It's only let down by the ham dialogue.
leagues ahead of didney wars I mean, not kotor 2
lolno
1 is fun but 2 is a masterpiece
>2 is a masterpiece
I really can't agree with this when it is obviously unfinished, despite it being the RPG I have replayed the most.
Most of the best RPG games are unfinished
New Vegas, vampire Bloodlines, KOTOR, Deus Ex, etc.
1 has le epic twist and that's about it. 2 was unfinished, but frick me at least it tried to do something different than "haha blue lightsaber gud, red litesaber bad"
>Find what (you)s you're looking for amongst the thread?
anon, those are just your reactions, not the anons you are ""quoting""
>those reactions are... le yours!
is this the kind of pseudhomosexualry that kotor 2 lovers think makes them look clever? LOL
>is this le pseudhomosexualry that kotor 2 lovers think makes them look le clever? le LOL lmao le laughing because *I* am le clever
touched a nerve have I? just admit you don't actually like this game and aren't actually clever and your self-humiliation will end
>touched le nerve have I? just admit you don't actually like le game and aren't actually le clever and your le self-humiliation will end...I know because am le clever psycholoogist! not le insecure! that's why not I le avatargay despite saying le nothing...touched le nerve have I?!!!!!
BASEDDUEL
BASEDDUEL
BASEDDUEL
DO IT homosexualS
please cope, seethe and dial 8 after the tone
you too Black personhomosexual
You must be 16 or older to post here.
(You) will never be a woman
you are exactly the type of pseudointellectual homosexual i am talking about
>EXPLAIN WHY ITS BAD!
>oh THAT explanation? uhh ummm uhhhh YOU'RE WRONG!
>explain it
KOTOR 1 is the same bland Star Wars story that has been repeated 5000 times. BioWare has no fricking clue how to make a villain beyond literally adding diabolical laughter and having him kill millions for no reason at all. This isn't to say that KOTOR 1 is a bad game. Even its writing is good at some points, but not nearly all the time, with tons of cheesy dialogue and character interactions, really bad humor, and again, some of the worst villain writing ever. It is far outdone by KOTOR 2.
KOTOR 2 in contrast is far from a normal Star Wars story. Instead of just buying into the same shit, it acts as a deconstruction of the Star Wars story as well as a critique on how fricking poorly written the Force is. Kreia is a massive filter for morons because they can't seem to grasp the idea of an ally that challenges what you do and makes you think about your actions. She's a foil not just for the protagonist, but the player's own morality. The villains in KOTOR 2 is on the opposite end of the quality spectrum. The Sith are aggressive, capable, and have reason behind their actions aside from "CONQUER LE GALAXY XDXDXD". The big bad evil villain can be said to have a reason that is hard to argue against, and you are given the option to allign with them. Meanwhile, general conflict is usually done under the idea that the protagonist is put in a very shitty or bad situation and has to be smart and work their way out of it, rather than KOTOR 1 where it's just abusing the purposefully bad and incapable villains. All the while, the game has a sense of mystery, wonder, and serious undertones and incredibly deep companion interactions.
KOTOR 2 is simply better. This is all ignoring the clearly better UI and game mechanics present in KOTOR 2.
>The Sith are aggressive, capable, and have reason behind their actions aside from "CONQUER LE GALAXY XDXDXD".
You're not talking about Nihilus i hope, because his whole motivation is to devour the entire galaxy, since he's quite literally incapable of doing anything else.
filtered
Wish i could punch you through the monitor, buzzword-spewing chump ass motherfricker.
Filtered.
Nihilus wasn't your average conquer the galaxy bad guy. He was more like a eldritch force of nature. Not complicated but rather unique as far as video game villans go.
> We need a bad guy that isn't just a bad guy.
> Uh... What do you mean...
> Well, so far most the bad guys in star wars have been like trying to take over the galaxy or crime lords or stuff like that. What about a bad guy that literally destroys planets.
> What... You mean like the emperor did?
> No it's completely different from that!
Kotor 2's villain is literally just hungry
You didn't beat KOTOR 2.
I guess she is yes
We all get hungry, it's very relatable
I get hungry for Handmaiden's fat, sweaty cheeks.
>deconstruction
Pretentious homosexual detected.
You could have just told yourself that you lost the argument but instead you decided to let others know that you're dumb as shit. Just stop posting.
I didn't read any of that.
now who's pretentious?
I didn't read any of that.
He likes a Avellone game post Planescape that isn't Mask of the Betrayer. No shit he's a pseudo intellectual.
*he likes anything written by Avellone, no shit he's a pseudo-intellectual
Planescape is fine, but ever since Avellone has had his head up his ass and his fanboys eat up whatever he shits out (yet you never see them talk about the especially shit ones like Wrath of the Righteous)
Avellone worked on Wrath?
He was a lead narrative designer iirc. Areelu does feel like she has elements of his hag characters like Ravel and Kreia.
He has "worked" on every CRPG in the last decade it feels like, even if all he did was write 1 companion or 1 quest.
>have a great simple classical good vs evil story
Meh...
>le deconstruction!!! grey morality?? jedi are actually.. bad?!
WOWZERS!
(Lucas did it already in the prequels, while keeping ontological good vs ontological evil untouched, you fricking homosexual)
Avellonegays are mentally ill so they pretend it's fine when he does le ebin subversion/deconstruction while seethe about someone like Lucas or Rian Johnson doing it.
Rian did it terribly. Lucas - kind of depends, but the dialogue WAS terrible in 1&2.
That's the difference - it's not about just deconstruction or taking ideas and flipping them on their head, execution always matters.
That's also why people shit in this thread on KoTOR's writing - it's not issue of Good vs Evil as much as being done worse than KoTOR2.
>muh failed writer is ackutually good
Anyone who writes for video games is a shit writer anon, otherwise they wouldn't write for vidya.
Tells you a lot about how bad the Lucas' and Bioware's writing was then, doesn't it.
didn't even say he is a good writer, just that it was better than those attempts, but I understand it's hard to argue when you are wrong anon, keep at it
Don't be so cynical, sure there are a lot of shit writers in video game industry, but most writers are shit anyway, it's no biggie
Subversion and deconstruction is not always a hostile criticism. Say what you want about the game and avellone, but he clearly cared about making a star wars game, not just the lore but the aesthetic and storytelling, his subversion of the themes are not cheap "haha get it? bet you didn't think of that bro", corporate shit will never feel the same no matter how much money they pour into it.
shut up nerd
Star Wars is supposed to be cartoony though
so... bioware is fun
you didn't explain shit and just used the fricking factory default talking points
>it is... le deconstruction!
>it is... le smartest star wars product!
>kreia is... le morally grey!
Maybe if you're 8
>y-y-you're uh uh uh A KID!
Oh, I was 8 when I beat kotor 1 for a first time in 2004
>limp bizkit reference
What schizo nonsense is this
Thats literally what it is
It's a reference to the lyrics of one of their songs
>I did it all for the nookie
This image is a meme right? This feels like it's trying to make Obsidiangays look bad more then shit on Biocucks.
>Kotor 1 is Saturday cartoon villain
>Kotor 2 is for edgy nihilists with a wicked sense of humour, just like me!
Like Kotor 1 is for Kids and Kotor 2 is for 14 year old teenagers with dyed black hair and piercings who think being dark and edgy is deep.
>cinematic reveals that villain granny got raped
>Kotor 2 fans: wow this is such a mature game and appeals to my tastes!
She wasn't raped you tard, do you honestly think Nihilist Sith or Sion have a working dick?
>"I suffered... indignities..."
>*cuts away to Nihilus looking on approvingly*
Sounds like raep to me, bruv.
If Sion wasn't able to rape her the normal way then he probably did other things. Lesbian rapists exist and they don't have penises either
t. If I were Sion I would have raped her
It matches his personality and Oedipus Complex in relation to Kreia, yes.
Sion keeps his body together by willpower, willing his shredded dried out dick erect would be a relatively trivial thing in comparison and likely hurt him a lot making him stronger.
I'd be surprised if Nihilus even knew what a sex drive is anymore, but Sion 100% gets off to rape and like some other anon said, if he can't personally do it with his dick then he'll find a way.
He's the lord of pain, and what better way to inflict physical and especially psichological pain onto others than by violating them?
I've never been sure on this just for the
>Reference to band: BAD
>Reference to thing video game does: PEAK OF HUMOR
bit. That's a thing I'd see Ganker shit on games for more then often for being "lol video games amirite gamers?"
>Edgy means good writing
This was made by a teenager wasn't it? The type who thinks Pokémon would be more epic if instead of getting knocked out they were killing each other.
It's not saying kotor 2 writing is good its saying 1's is bad
>It's constantly comparing the writing of the two
>No bro trust me, it's just saying one is bad, not that the other is good
It outright refers to Sion as a legitimate threat. The creator of the image clearly had a bias for Kotor 2.
It's Star Wars, but written by a writer who at least passed basic English courses instead of a teenager
Isn't Sion just The Nameless One but a Sith?
I've never played a female in KOTOR before I didn't know Sion has a completely different perspective depending on gender.
Yes he wants to frick the exile
He's a sith incel, basically.
TOR retroactively making the fall of Revan and the Mandalorian wars just a setup for it's new villain was such a massive dick move from nu-BioWare i'm surprised acts of terrorism weren't commited.
Well that's require people to actually play TOR
Right honestly wasn't a bad antagonist. He was just trapped in an inferior game and retroactively ruined.
Valkorion/Tenebrae/whatever wasn't a bad villain tbh he was practically the only good thing in the expansions
His last appearance was cringey marvel shit
It just hits harder senpai, fr fr no cap
i really like the theme of the scars of war
just about every party member you have and planet you go to has been adversely affected by all the wars the space wizards have been waging. you see all the wreckage, the pollution, the refugees, the orphans. it’s basically a game about cleaning up after all that
it’s the post-star wars star wars, and yes i’m aware how douchey that sounds
it’s a star wars thing that’s actually about something and not just some hero’s journey fantasy adventure, and there’s nothing wrong with campy adventure it’s just not really anything special
kotor 1 was some by-the-books star wars stuff and it was perfectly good, but i like 2 better almost entirely on the writing and themes
also kotor 2 t3-m4 is actually a character and not just a literal plot device that was there to open a door
I like having a sparring match in a cargo hold with big titty tomboy. Also I like having a blind cutie with dsl lips as a party member
>explain it
I like chopping up dudes with a lightsaber and honestly I never realized so many people had trouble understanding kreia.
>"Find what you're looking for amongst the de-"
>(sees Exile molesting dead body)
Whats the most credits you earned? I potentially had 250k but never sold anything because money is basically useless
300k, because the loot tables in 2 are semi-randomised and this is one of the objectively better aspects of the game compared to the first, and it’s weird it never really gets mentioned when people get into pointless fights about it.
I just wish you got your Jedi clothes nice and early through story progression like in the first one. Getting unlucky with the loot and having to wait until i'm halfway through the game intil i FINALLY happen upon some proper robes drives me nuts.
I don’t deny the loot tables could have been refined in 2, though I guess I’ve been lucky and always had -some- robes in at the latest the first visited world. But I’d take that over finding the same blaster in the same barrel every time because I still play both of these games nearly two decades later.
Plus by 2 either episode 2 or 3 had been out and they remembered the robes could look like robes and not a nearly skintight thing. God I hated the robes in 1
It gives the game more replay value certainly, especially when you abandon your obsession with Jedi equipment and make most of what equipment you acquire in the game.
>hey, did you ever consider that doing good things might be bad?
Brilliant.
>kotor 2 thread
>no discussion about actual game, just mandatory midwit arguments over philosophy
I'm convinced philosophical discussions are the absolute most useless activity that human beings can engage in. It only attracts the absolute most Dunning-Kruger motherfrickers on the face of the Earth.
Replaying it right now.
>mfw Korriban Revan one-shots me for fricking 150 damage and I go from max light allied to nearly grey
Maybe you shouldn't go to Korriban first, dummy.
I did it second to last. Even with +9 widsom and some charisma he outright negated my force powers like a Chad. I got cucked.
Also:
>Think I'll finally try a run without romancing handmaiden
>Do it anyways
White pubes making me act out.
Guess you just gotta buff the crap out of yourself and wail on him. I don't remember the fight being particularly hard, but i always end up going guardian/marauder and unga-bunga my way through the game.
My homie.
Man of taste.
Everyone else in this thread is a homosexual pretty much. Especially the basedjak poster that just uses that image for anything he doesnt personally like, like a actual basedjak would. Anyways both are good, end of thread
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAA
>dancedancemalak
I'm not into zoomerspeak but this kinda slaps
What's so funny
not even bad for a game in 2003
And on the original Xbox, no less. There's a reason the original KotOR blew everyone out of the water in 2003.
NO offence but kotor 1 has better soundtrack
homosexual?? no i'm doesn't, uhh, no you!!
I only played KOTOR 1 years later and i already knew about the Revan twist, but it remember thinking "man, they're making this REALLY fricking obvious, aren't they?"
I can't image anyone back in the day not calling it way before the reveal.
>I can't image anyone back in the day not calling it way before the reveal.
I was floored when I saw it the first time, but I was also like 10 years old.
Well yeah, i guess i wasn't accounting for how much younger everyone was
of course it's obvious if you already know it's happening
I mean if you're aware of the twist already, you're obviously going to pick up on all the foreshadowing and hints of it prior.
Also it was 2003, most posters were either kids or not even born yet.
Did anyone on this planet Earth ever use this b***h?
I did when i went consular, so i could take her and Bastila with me, and run with the guardian-sentinel-consular trinity.
>have three jedis on your party
bit of an over kill.
I went to the wookie planet first so I got Jolee, between him and Bastila I didn't ever need her.
I think if she's in the party both her and Jolee insist on coming with you into the temple in the endgame.
Yes.
yes when i played as a female character so i could romance her.
Good loot now frick off
We all agree Dark Side > Light Side playthrough, right?
I literally only do good playthroughs in any RPG I play through
DS is definitely more injoyable, but i always have to suspend my disbelief when your virtuous party members stick with you even when it's clear you're just another fallen darksider maniac. At least in Kotor 1 half your group tries to bail on you if you decide to retake your Revan title.
It's funny dragging Carth along and watching him impotently comment on you doing objectively evil stuff. Guy needs a backbone, especially since all he does is whine about betrayal while you set up the most obvious red flags possible.
Making Zalbaar kill Mission is some ice cold shit.
>Making Zalbaar kill Mission is some ice cold shit.
It's also the move of a homosexual, because Mission is best girl.
She's obnoxious pedobait
>Mission Vao
>14
>"pedo"
kek, kys
kys pedoBlack person, we're talking about literal child here, not teenagers
you don't know shit about twi'lek biology
women fully matures starting from 15 yrs old, so yes we're talking about literal child here, so dilate pedofreaks
Lurk more and try to be less obvious next time.
>hurr durr ur not pedo ur not fit in
enjoy your time in hell, pedo
>"we're talking about literal child here, not teenagers"
>is talking about a teenager
Hmmm
She should have been space legal then. Get wookie'd b***h.
If she was legal, she wouldn't be best girl.
That's the point. You're gay if you don't love her.
>Sam Maggs already kicked off of Kotor remake for being a moron and she wasn't writing anything important anyways
Is there a sliver of hope?
Is it actually a remake or just a new RPG using the SW KOTOR branding?
Honestly I would prefer just making an entirely new game and plot, both kotors still play fine so I can go back to them, I want something new to play.
It's a full remake aiming to be more action oriented RPG. If the news on it is correct they're trying to bring everyone in the cast back.
Isn't Canderous voice actor dead?
Cygan died on that tanker 2 years ago.
You know those 3% shots in XCOM? The ones that you know perfectly well there's no chance in hell the shot will land, but you still take it anyway, because deep down you're thinking "maybe... just maybe"
I kinda feel the same way with this.
I'm surprised that no one has posted lewds of this hag yet.
Oh yeah. Up the loading ramp I charge.
>that filename
Frick, i had never considered that she was actually PUSHING me to sex one of the women since that'd be the closest thing to action she would have probably had in decades.
Wonder how much she'd feel through the force bond?
>words words words: the game
might as well play a visual novel holy shit.
Also the game is just straight up unfinished even disregarding the ending. Game is uglier than the first one, just look at this shit.
Anon, you're in that map for literally 15 seconds, don't be an butthole
Who wears the miner's uniform all the way across Telos like that? Are you a moron?
it lets you use forcepowers, if you don't find any jedi robes/armor then it's better than wearing default clothes
Isn't there a high chance for a Jal Shey armor in the miner's quarters and a Jedi robe in the Ebon Hawk's cargo?
ebon hawk cargo is TSLRCM only i think
you're probably right about the other thing but RNG is RNG, i've played the game as a dark side character without finding a single dark side robe until sion
You find an average of 2-3 Jedi robes by that point in the game. Or at least I usually do. They aren't hard-locked up to a certain point like they are in KotOR 1.
dude
it’s an rpg, of course there’s a lot of dialogue
t. thinks Disco Elysium is a game.
It is! You roll the dice, just like when you play tabletop with your friends
Darth Nihilus is the greatest star wars character design of all time
Never played the game but I'm convinced my previous psychologist was a lot of that woman.
>Based Choice
Atton
HK-47
Jolee
Mission
Visas
>Would pick if the game didn't take them away
Kreia
Bastila
>Okay picks
Canderous
Zaalbar
Jolee
T3
Mira
Handmaiden
>Nobody chooses you
Juhani
G0to
Bao-Dur
Hanharr
>homosexual tier
Carth
Mical
Move Visas to Okay tier. Her VA is pure sex but other than that there's nothing to her.
>Jolee twice
>Visas mattering at all
Pretty accurate
Jolee is definitely one of the based choices for kotor, other than hk and bastila pretty much the only character with anything interesting to say.
Everything else I agree with though.
i use bao dur all the time that homie pops off if you leave him unarmed and he fills in a bunch of missing skill gaps for your party if you aren't playing as a sentinel
Yes, general?
PURE
PAZAAK
>homosexual tier
>Carth
Don't care I always stick with the first 2-3 companions in every single RPG I've played
What's the Gankererdict?
8 hours long - day is saved
>comically long
>british accent
>troony voice
>already starting to sound like some long winded spiel about mental health or something in the first 5 minutes
Shan't
Gimme a hug, man
.
>Exile, I…
>the 2 powers kreia teaches you in the story are beast control and breath control
>the 2 biggest dangers on the surface of malachor are beasts and poison
BRAVEOLLONE
DEEPEST
LORE
KOTOR2 was too edgy for me.
>the force is... LE BAD
>*cracks planet* *sips force* [muffled] Yup...
>URRRRGGGHHHHH DUDE I DIED BUT NOT REALLY LMAO DA PAIN GOTTA SPREAD DA PAIN DID I MENTION DA PAIN?!
I prefer the more simplistic approach of KOTOR.
>wake up in an infirmary that I've never seen before
>all the other people inside bacta tanks are dead
>some b***h gives me guff for checking the pockets of corpses for supplies
It was at that moment I realized she was full of shit.
imagine how sweaty the exile would be running around those heated peragus mining tunnels haha
Sorry but the exile is canonically jedi jesus
no way, the exile is asian chick
Asian chick fits better into the canon, but Jedi Jesus will always be my homie
>tfw always pick the female Asian with the short hair and emo fringe as my canon Revan
>always pick either Jedi Jesus or the tan dude with the mullet for my canon Exile
why doesn't this game autosave
>playing nar shaddaa with TSLRCM
>reach the part where you play as atton, mira, and t3, and have to fight your way back to the docks
>entire party gets wiped out in 5 seconds by some gand with a stick
>last save game was from before the exchange contacted us
Literally how
>brainlets fawning over the freshman tier philosophy teachings of kreia again
oh boy
That's the fun of it all.
Shut up you old c**t, I'll do what I want (which is to help people) and I WILL frick your daughter.
Kotor 2 is the prequels of Star Wars Vidya. The one everyone pretends is kino when it's fricking drivel that's just as bad as the original or worse.
It's actually the Empire Strikes Back of Star Wars video games. Everything else is traditional Star Wars, and Kotor 2 is deeper and more nuanced.
lmao, Empire Strikes back is kiddy shit like any other star wars media you fricking moron. I get you were really impressed by "I am your father" but grow the frick up.
(You)s have no value.
I just want a modern jedi rpg is that too much to ask for
Yes, literally everyone in the modern games industry is too moronic to pull it off, as well as disney continuing to drive star wars into the ground with every new thing they make.
I like both games for what they are. It's sad both companies are dead now.
Both games are great, but RPG threads in particular just have this tendency to make anons be tribalistic morons over which developer makes better RPGs. You see it all the time if you go to /vrpg/, 80% of cRPG discussion is if Larian/Obsidian/Owlcat is better.
I like both but prefer replaying 2 because of the build variety and starting as a Jedi.
I should use a start as Jedi mod for 1 in my next replay.
>mfw sticking to blasters and shooting Malak to death just for giggles
Adios, bald, chinless b***h.
Any good Atris porn?
Exile should have bent her over in front of the entire council. What would those homosexuals have done about it? Exactly. Then a decade later he could bend her over in front of the handmaidens.
one star wars game from twenty years ago strives for greater than capeshit-tier writing and moron star wars purists are still insecure about it to this day
Now imagine somebody doing that for Warhammer
Cool, but I only play the only good Star Wars game out there.
If you like Kotor 2 you're no better then any gay who thinks Last Jedi was good.
>edgy is bad because.....it just IS, OKAY?
don't cut yourself little guy
>Every time Kotor 2 gets praised it's almost always followed by anyone shitting on 1
I hate this kind of shit. Both games are good, it's fine to have a preference but to shit on one to try and elevate the other is just being a homosexual.
Thread reminder that Jolee bindo exists as a direct refutation of Kreia’s philosophy and if they’d been on the ebon hawk at the same time the ship would have burned down within parsecs from Kreia’s sheer fricking seeething.
Or they’d have fricked. Possibly both!
Jolee is a total lightsider. Everything he says and does reflects that. Devs just tried to shoehorn him as a grey jedi.
Yes, but also: lmao, get bindo’d get absolutely katarn’d
What i wouldn't give to see Kreia fuming with rage and throw up her drivel at Jolee for 20 minutes only for him to be all like "yeah whatever, homosexual"
How so? Wasn't Jolee just a lightside jedi who was sick of the Jedi councils bullshit so he just started doing his own thing?
its not really a refutation, jolee is ultimately a lightsider and kreia is a darksider. Jolee is mearly self aware of his apathy and Kreia is super bitter about needing the force to do fricking anything
They'd be pals probably
>recognises the Force is a narrative autist that keeps Making it like poetry they rhyme every century or so.
>underlines that destiny doesn’t mean personal freedom to change shit.
>accepts it’s all basically pointless to try and change things and it’ll all be the same fight with different names a few centuries from now.
>acknowledges directly that the Jedi get in their own fricking way more than any other entity
>gets involved anyway
>bangs his hot wife on the reg without it getting weird.
Embarrassing. Honestly it might just be that he’s standing next to maybe you should talk to Carth, the literal child urchin and a lesbian cat, the contrast might make him seem brighter
Considering Kreia dunks on Zez-Kai-Ell who is basically Jolee 2.0, that's a laugh.
>look at me, I'm criticizing the Jedi for being dumb and not living up to their ideals while still siding with the Jedi :^)
When you meet Jolee, he has a tale about a boy helping a snake who then kills the boy after being dragged far away. So if you go full Dark Side and kill Jolee, it makes Jolee an idiotic hypocrite who knew what was coming to him and died like an idiot.
>Zez-Kai-Ell who is basically Jolee 2.0
Now that's just not true. Jolee left the order and exiled himself, Zez is a fricking jedi master.
You're also not looking at it from a bigger picture. Jolee stayed on Kashyyk for twenty years, saw the wookies enslaved, and did nothing. Zez-Kai-Ell stayed on Narshadaa for years, saw the refugees suffering, and he did nothing. Both Jolee and Zez-Kai-Ell are deeply critical of the Jedi Order.
When Kreia criticizes Zez-Kai-Ell for seeing all that happens on Narshadaa and doing nothing, to be so close to understanding the Force yet refuse to give it up, it equally applies to Jolee. Not to mention that Zez-Kai-Ell sides with the Jedi the same way Jolee confronts you if you turn evil; Jolee 'leaving' the Jedi Order didn't stop him from being a Jedi.
Not really. The Star Forge is a major threat and Jolee while he has major issues with the Jedi and how they do thinks, still is a good person. Zez questions what the Jedi did wrong but doesn't ever realise what, since at the end he blindly follows the other masters and focus on you rather then the bigger more important threat. Jolee would have called the 3 masters morons for focusing on the Exile over the sith.
Jolee never talks about the Star Forge. He only considers Malak a threat and nonechalantly says that it doesn't really matter because Star Wars exists in a cycle of villains rising and heroes defeating them.
>Jolee would have called the 3 masters morons for focusing on the Exile over the sith.
Nah, he would have agreed with the Jedi Masters because he's as much of a Jedi cuck as the rest of them.
>he would have agreed with the Jedi Masters
I can't see that at all unless you were going dark side. He's a Jedi still, sure, but while he might be concerned about the Exile being a hole in the force, I can't picture Jolee thinking a Light side exile is currently the bigger threat then the 3 powerful sith lords who are still out there.
Both are fricking terrible, but the first one is closer to the genuine star wars setting by far. The greatest parts spoken of 2 are basically "subverting expectation"-tier writing and belong in the fricking trash.
Gay ass Kotor II keeps crashing
Piece of shit game
works on my machine
I still don't really get Kreia's point. Just "think for yourself"? It's the only thing that makes sense to me with shit like the beggar scene where the game forces you to either give the bum money or threaten to kill someone for asking for change.
It's more like "do what you think is right"
Basically, when she's not malding about the force. She doesn't want you to be a dick because "That's what a sith should do" or good because "Jedi always have to be good"
It's a weird point though because flip flopping will frick you gameplay wise so it's better to commit then trying to be neutral.
>he took the hanhar bait
The bonuses to maxing out your morality points were a huge contradiction in a game that supposedly tries to make you ponder the value of adhering to the jedi/sith doctrine, and i'm not sure why it never gets brought up.
It wants you to pick a side though, it doesn't want you to be neutral. Apathy is death and all that shit.
Kreia never said to be a Apathetic Grey Jedi, she just wants your reasons for your actions to be more than dogmatic adherence to ideology of the two factions.
Doesn't the secret tomb where
occurs have a level requirement or prestige class requirement?
Despite her lying about the Jedi Council cutting you off from the Force early on she is still truthful about the requirement to gain power in order to defeat the Sith you are going to face, and full Light/Dark mastery is a part of that power.
I don’t think the point was to be neutral. The point is to think carefully behind why you do what you do. If most of your decisions are decisions that you make but happen to end up aligning closer to the Jedi philosophy then that’s fine, same with the Sith. The issue is if you let the Sith or Jedi ideology and the archetypes surrounding them be the main reason why you make your decisions, even if they don’t lead to the best outcomes
>The point is to think carefully behind why you do what you do.
Yeah but the gameplay doesn't do anything to try and tie into that. Blindly going full Jedi or Sith is objectively better for you then just doing what you feel like.
The gameplay kinda does. Kreia and your allies will admonish you. Kreia especially if you go the “designated Jedi hero” route but she will also criticize you if you become cruel for no reason. I think your allies, if they turn to the Dark side, will also criticize you if you act too cartoonishly evil
Think and *live* for yourself. Everyone misunderstands the beggar scene. The thing is that both choices represent how the audience thinks of the Light Side / Dark Side choice. The Light Side choice is always acting altruistic and selfless. That's wrong. The Jedi must intentionally act with patience because the Force ties everything together, so every choice must be considered. Atris even tells you this on Telos on why the Jedi didn't join the Mandalorian Wars.
If you go Dark Side, you think it's just being cruel randomly, but it's about being selective in your cruelty, damaging yourself a bit for larger damages and gains somewhere else, increasing one's power.
So the point isn't 'think for yourself' but 'your preconceptions of the Jedi and Sith are wrong, be manipulative.' The endpoint is that the Jedi and Sith are basically the game. This is also reflected with how the galaxy in Kotor 2 see the Jedi and Sith are the same thing but with different philosophies.
Blah blah light side blah blah dark side blah blah Jedi blah blah the force blah blah mandalorian.
> Nothing of value was said.
> depraved wienerslobbering fans of the second game ranting on and on about their shitheap of a game like the ultra-autists that they are.
Trash games avoid at all costs.
>can't actually discuss what he likes about the first game, can only mention that he hates about the second game
Why are 2 haters all like this? Literally nobody is able to discuss 1 on its own, just 1 in comparison to 2.
No, you miss my point you turboautist. Both games are fricking terrible except for the thin veneer of paint over the skins and the subtext that makes it "star wars". Literally the only reason you are talking about it is because of its tenuous relation to that franchise.
what are good games anon
Because it's continued existence as a dominant position in RPG culture is fricking abhorrent and deserves very little of the respect and accrediting it garners. Anyone who unironically takes these games as having serious moral points beyond pure game mechanics needs their head checked. On this basis, I would argue the first is the purer game for not having its head jammed firmly up its own ass, but it's still guilty of it in places.
Not what I asked.
What are good games?If you say something like Baldur's Gate after this I am going to laugh.
> What are good games.
> Here let me pre-emptively set up the goal posts for you.
There's a reason why I'm not bothering to answer you.
What, you mean like when you get off the boat in Morrowind and you get asked directly to your face what you would do if someone tried to steal your sweet roll? How original.
>There's a reason why I'm not bothering to answer you.
Yes, and the reason is that you'd get laughed out and you know it.
Implying you hadn't already decided you were going to try and force the conversation to go a certain way and now you're desperately trying to maintain the illusion of superiority. You fricking cretin.
I have always been superior? What are you saying?
You joined the thread, about a thing you apparently don't like, and said frick all except your attempts at being snide. You refuse to actually say anything or debate, you just say your "snide" one-liners and pretend you have won.
So if you'd kindly stop projecting your illusion of superiority onto me, I'd appreciate that a lot. Thanks.
Nah m8 it's just you that I think is a c**t. Do enjoy that shit you're smearing around your face while you're at it.
The sweetroll question in Morrowind is deciding your stats, the conversation with Atris is entirely about you deciding the RP reasoning for why Exile joined Revan, returned and how they feel about the war in general.
No, you're right, the sweetroll question actually mattered.
>your character's background doesn't matter in an RPG
> Character background.
You mean headcanon.
>literal text of the game isn't character background
It would be headcanon if it was anons coming up with their own reasons for how the exile felt about the war and their actions during it. Instead it's a conversation in the game itself (a optional one but still) where the player decides how the Exile feels about it.
I can't tell if you're merely pretending or not at this stage.
> A conversation in the game itself.
So, why not just have it decided for you? Wouldn't that make for stronger characterisation?
>why not just have it decided for you?
Because it's a role playing game? Why do you want everything about your role defined for you without any input? If you want that play a CDPR game.
> Without input.
There's a difference between not having an input and fulfilling a role.
There are plenty of books in the star wars expanded universe that are many times a greater reading experience than Kotor ever offered.
books and games don't offer the same experience and you know this
Yep. At least the EU books aren't pretentious enough to try and teach me morality.
Pppppfgffppffpfpgt
Thanks for this. Meme or not. I’m not even in this thread but holy shit.
Green justice lightning evil convoy shit.
Are you the type of moron who argues call of duty is a RPG because "you play the role of a solider?"
Call of duty is the fricking devil and I will not have it spoken of in my presence.
You wouldn't know, you haven't played morrowind
Implying implications. It's like it's 2005 in here.
Sure anons, a couple lines of text is absolutely an extraordinary weight to add to your gaming experience. Why not dispense with the formalities and just go and read a book though?
Is this you
Negative.
is though.
Primarily because the thought that a bunch of people who - like me - were old enough to play the game to its fullest when it was first released 18 fricking years ago and still be banging on about the nuances of what is effectively well-produced fanwankery is downright surreal and I couldn't hold it back anymore.
>Sure anons
so you agree with me, argument over.
>dialogue in an RPG is bad
Why are you here again?
I like how you ended up arguing for the game you supposedly dislike
>Role playing doesn't matter in a role playing game
Okay moron.
Hold up, are you the same numbnuts that tried to pull this same shit in a Dragon Age general like a week ago and got laughed out of the thread?
Honestly I never got why people liked dragon age so much. Go ahead and school me on it's quality.
I assume because it's the closest thing to a modern Baldurs Gate and isn't that neutered.
... Is this a thing I don't get because I'm quite happy playing ASCII games and isometrics?
Setting is actually cool and roleplaying in origins is probably the most you will get in any game. Companions also were cool, you had your usual suspects: a normal guy paladin, a sexy witch, a drunk dwarf warrior, but there were others that are yet to be replicated like based sten and golem woman. Too bad this cursed series only becomes worse with every game.
Okay, but how does it play?
Standard rtwp
> Standard.
That doesn't really tell me much about game mechanics anon. Is it derived from a tabletop system with dice rolls for example.
Like a game running on an engine that makes gamebryo look nuanced and modern designed for something completely different but they -really- wanted to do something else and loved it as if it was their malformed monsterous child.
It plays like genuine fricking garbage, but garbage that was loved and cared for
What, are you referring to anything in particular, I've never had a problem with how it plays, it's very responsive with few bugs
it plays like shit and the encounter design gets really fricked up late game
Your cynical take is most welcome anon.
Quick question, are you being moronic on purpose?
Then why are you here?
>Literally nobody is able to discuss 1 on its own, just 1 in comparison to 2.
The last Kotor thread I was in had people happily discussing both without being autists trying to one up each other and prove their game was superior, so that's not true.
>everyone always talks about Kreia for good writing
>Nobody talks about Atris
My favourite moment in point games is when you meet her for the first time and you spend most of the conversation arguing with one another about the Mandalorian wars. I always liked that bit since you get so many options to justify why your character felt going to war was necessary.
The entire game is well-written. Kreia is just the center piece. Atris represents the flaw of all Jedi and Sith put together. She's vindictive, arrogant, believes herself all-knowning, put the galaxy at risk with his 'manipulations' which ended up killing many Council members, she can't let go of the Force or its teachings, and she embraced evil even though she should know better.
>The entire game is well-written.
It's so true. And I'm so sick of everyone focusing on Kreia and ignoring the fact that this game is the truest to EU lore out there. It was so autistically researched and painstakingly crafted that it's an actual shame all anybody remembers from it is "le old philosopher lady lol."
Another thing I think people don’t appreciate is how perfectly it ties into the Prequel and Original Trilogies. The events of those movies end up proving Kreia right, HK-47 accurately predicts Order 66 a millennia before it happens, Kreia actually is implied to see the death of Jango Fett in her visions when predicting the legacy of the Mandolorians, the hypocrisy of the council that created Revan and Malak ends up being the same hypocrisy that creates Darth Vader, Luke’s refusal to adhere to Jedi and Sith dogmas too strictly is what leads to the redemption of Vader and so on. Also, Vader’s suit is also canonically modelled after the outfits the Sith Assassins in KOTOR 2 wear.
Is that really any surprise when you have someone like Lucas playing heil fricking Hitler with the franchise at the time.
The series was thematically stronger for having every bit of lore lead back to the movies. This way, the movies are the Force’s end-game, while everything else is what lead up to said end game.
I’m pretty sure the only reason Bioware does comically edgy options is because players found them fun. Being a good guy in a Bioware game is incredibly boring. I’ll give props to KOTOR 2 and Obsidian for making the Light Side path way more interesting, even if ultimately I feel the story is more interesting from a Dark Side perspective and feels more appropriate.
I always appreaciated that conversation from a roleplaying perspective. It's even better that you even get the option to assert yourself over your decision to leave for the war, or go "yeah, i might have fricked up, we didn't help anybody in the end"
Yeah, I think I played it as he was regretful about how it all turned out, but still defended his choice to go and would have done so again.
that's old hat, what made atris interesting was how palpable and authentic a portrait of repressed desire and externalized loathing they were able to paint.
>you were deafened
>It is because you were...
>afraid
Sure this part is all diamonds, the level of pure righteous indignation Kreia’s VA brings to the Jedi too.
But people never mention her initial entry to the temple. The delivery in that whole sequence is layered like a vegetable with multiple layers. Like a kiwi or something I don’t know vegetables
>currently replaying KOTOR 2 with a blaster build
>it’s viable, but nowhere near as efficient or fun as a lightsaber build
I hate how most of my shots seem to miss even with appropriate upgrades and high DEX.
I WILL give the the poor
I WILL be nice to Atton
I WILL charge your daughter's loading ramp
I WILL be a true Jedi
You WILL seethe, hag
My brother
LITERALLY her teachings, well done padawan
>ending of the game is you killing a Sith, fulfilling your duty as a Jedi, and killing your master, fulfilling your duty as a Sith
BRAVO YOU GUIDO WOP FRICK
The ending of the game is the tragic crash of the ebon hawk because atton literally crashes every single time he flys a ship.
This is canon. Remember, if you don’t think this is canon, the alternative is SWTOR.
Atton crashed and everyone died. This is what happened.
*regular human Atton
Jedi Atton probably pilots the Hawk with one hand while holding his Exilefu close to him with his other hand
>fulfilling your duty as a Sith
Not to be autistic, but the events of KOTOR 2 predate the Rule of Two.
Your choice at the end is to either kill Kriea and destroy her Sith Academy by blowing up Malachor, or kill Kriea and become the new Dark Lord of the Sith, taking command of the Sith Assassins who populate the academy. There’s a reason that the assassins outside the academy kneel before you as you enter— They know you’ve come to kill Kriea and will likely be their new boss.
Sith still attempt to kill their master and take his place in this era, see Revan and Malak in the first game or the events in the Korriban academy. Rule of Two was just when all the weak hangers-on had been culled from the Sith.
I see anon. I will think about your post and reflect on this.
Say what you like,
But kreia definitely got her prediction to Mandalore about the end of the Mandalorians cut short.
>Kreia opens her mouth to complain or play devils advocate to my choice
>"Shut the frick up."
>Continue playing as a Chad Jedi hero saving the galaxy just like Kotor 1
see
>not picking the dark side choices
>not modding the game so when all the characters chastise you your replies are all “nyer-ha-ha *twirls moustache*”
All I’m saying is Dick Dastardly seemed like he enjoyed life.
If I was aware of a mod like that yes, Kotor 2 evil choices just feel too edgy for me usually.
Nyer-ha-ha
Kotor 1 feels like it fits the dick dastardly tier evil better then 2.
Yeah but when you’re talking to Malak it just feels awkward when we’re both twirling our moustaches so
That sensation of awkwardness is what you should be feeling whenever any character in these games opens their mouths for longer than a few seconds.
Fair
Is there a evil choice in 2 as kino as the Romeo/Juliet evil option with the farmers, where you can get everyone to shoot each other and everyone dies?
Telling the worst VA I’ve ever heard to listen to the angry red pyramid that tells her to attack moisture Vaporators installed on a fricking rural garden world sullru why the frick have you got a moisture farm on a temperate planet you fricking moron
Sorry I got distracted. I mean convincing everyone to plagueshame an old guy into volunteering into a lynching.
Is there a mod that makes Kreia casually call you a homosexual in all of your conversations with her?
Both games have good content on their planets but I prefer how Kotor 2's planets tie in to the overall plot and setting of the aftermath of the Jedi Civil War, while 1 which is set during the civil war has your enemy be Czerka corps half the time (Tatooine and Kashyyyk) instead of the Sith you are supposed to be fighting in the ongoing Jedi Civil War. I Know it's because you are on a macguffin quest for the Starforge's location but it still feels like the Jedi Civil War is underused in the first game.
Strangely I think it's exactly this which makes it feel like more of a star wars-themed game. Like in A New Hope the whole Jedi thing was just an excuse for Luke to go off on an adventure and the focus was much more on the rebels vs. empire plot. Specifically I think the Sith Troopers were quite badly characterised in that game really. Like they needed stand ins for stormtroopers but couldn't use them so instead we have these dudes in silver armour.
Really loved my most recent playthrough of this. Was very gray Jedi. Was adamant that fighting at Malachor was the right thing to do and regretfully killed the Jedi since you’re locked into it even with mods if you side with that one guy in the Civil War. Was totally ok with helping people for the most part
Picking the evil choices should lock you out of the good choices and vice versa early on. Change my mind.
Define "evil". In every RPG, I play a warrior of justice. I strike down the wicked and save the innocent. Most games make killing your enemies the "evil" option when you can spare them instead, but I've never agreed with that. I do not spare the villains, I ensure that they will do no further evil. Batman is a pussy.
Evil = Acts of sadism or callousness perpetrated for no other reason than "because I felt like it". It should be pointed out that - for example - Palpatine was perfectly fricking capable of rising through the ranks of the senate and becoming a voice for reason and compassion, he just didn't fricking feel like doing so.
Your family's dead, Frank No matter how many crooks you kill, you won't get them back.
>land onto a smugglers moon full of hostile bounty hunters looking to lay low and find a jedi among billions
>some beggar homosexual is harrasing you for some change and risking exposing your cover
>tell him to frick of or be killed
>OH NO NO NO YOUR EBIL YOU HAVE TO ONLY DO EBIL SHIT FROM ON
Telling someone to frick off == Evil. Please never leave your basement sweet anon.
>doing some tasks for a reputable mega corporation is not evil
>acquiring some items and a plant for a local merchant isnt evil
>pimping out a dancing girl isnt evil
>shaking down a random technician for his credentials is not evil
>...
Get cancer moronic corporate slave.
100% guaranteed you imagined half of this conversation and are replying to yourself you turboautist.
Whats 11+seven divided in half?
If you know the answer
Get cancer braindead homosexual.
Else just unload from memory cancerous program.
Have you considered leaving your basement and actually talking to people to their faces for a while? It's actually quite good for you.
Unload from memory and stop executing cancerous script program.
Another non-response. Bot-tier poster itt.
Unload from memory and stop executing cancerous script program.
Dude, why don't you just post a soljack or Pepe like all the cool kids do nowadays.
Unload from memory and stop executing cancerous script program.
You failed to solve the turing test
Apparently so, but I'm quite amused by it.
Not him but you are the one that failed a simple turing test and accused another of being a bot in the same post chain.
Implying implications. Gets fricking weird around here when you use the word bot.
Cum to think of it you're like a chat bot ai trained on data from anons that arrived here in 2013 but larp as if they are 2011 newbies.
Please. Everyone knows the eternal summerhomosexualry started in 2008.
Another error.
The game considers using force persuasion to coerce villains into killing themselves as evil. I disagree.
The game is wrong. The force is a tool to be wielded by the user, nothing more. Ultimately it's no different from strangling someone to death with your bare hands, especially in a life or death situation.
Careful, Anon. That's the kind of talk that'll get you end up burning at the foot of a volcano.
Yeah because Obi-Wans a fair one to talk lol. Wonder if Disney wars is gonna do the dirty and show him flirting with the dark side in the intermediary years like he fricking should be.
>Biggest stick in the mud of the whole franchise
>Saw the good friend literally self destruct in front of his eyes and end up a psychopathic murderer
>Saw a Sith lord turn a peaceful republic into an evil empire
>Spends 99% of time in desert where there's no temptations
>Only human interaction most of the time is Qui-Gon's ghost
>"Oh boy, maybe there's merit to this dark side thing after all!"
In fairness it's only mentioned briefly but in legends he chokes a couple bounty hunters when they track him down for the Jedi reward bounty.
Obi Wan's deep pain and regret over everything that happened and all the people he lost is a great setup for him to start slipping without realizing.
Dark Side's sneaky like that, you don't necessarily have to seek it in order to get corrupted by it.
There is no passion, only peace. Until you realize passion has short term results that you can see in real time, and peace may or may not work. Then you start making compromises until out of nowhere you're shooting Sith lightning at those who won't submit to your power.
What if I want to play a jerk with a heart of gold type of guy?
Then when the chips are down you'll pick the good option. Unless you're actually a jerk playing let's pretend in which case I'm sorry anon but you've been lying to yourself.
> Ironically this explains Kotor 2 better than Kreia ever fricking did.
B-b-b-but I want to be rude to my companions and beat innocent people up for petty reasons only to get redeemed in the end by my romantic interest and be celebrated for my heroism and absolved of all crimes
Ah, the ultimate degenerate fantasy. I applaud your self-indulgence fair anon and wish you well for the battles to come.
This is literally Kotor 1 vs 2.
First game the only LS or DS choice that matters is joining Bastilla at the end towards the end of the game and 2 locks you into DS if you kill one Jedi Master on any planet since the survivors will attack you on Dantooine towards the end of the game.
What happens if you decide that the Jedi masters are c**ts and don't want to talk to them anymore.
>The Empire is like America ten years from now, after Nixonian gangsters assassinated the Emperor and were elevated to power in a rigged election; created civil disorder by instigating race riots
Which KOTOR quest is for this feel?
>Aiding rebel groups. And allowing the crime rate to rise to the point where a 'total control' police state was welcomed by the people... We are at a turning point: fascism or revolution.
This thread made me decide to look up the wiki for a bunch of characters and reading the shit that SWTOR did to them is making me cry, man.
newbies think SWTOR was hated and resented without a proper reason or for some childish reasons that all the TOR this TORTANIC that homosexuals are spamming for years.
In reality it was one of the first beloved series of games that was murdered and its corpse raped and paraded around for money to shit eating normalBlack folk and fake nerds that larps as they love SW.
how long is Dxun?
I hate it here.
What's wrong with Dxun? Nar Shaddaa is the shitty one.
I'm sorry man it's just boring me to tears. Nar Shaddaa drags on, the yacht shit and the pov switches is absurd but I love muh gritty star Wars city planets.
Depends on whether or not you've gone to Iziz and finished your business there. If you're deep in the jungle and Canderous joined your party,then you just have to put up with some sith and storm the temple
Is Republic Commando worth playing? I completely missed it when it came out.
I DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT IT.
It's not the greatest shooter and it gets tedious at times (Kashyyk) but it's still worth giving it a go for the squad mechanics
Wookies sure love their hangars
It's the comfiest area wtf
[Something seems to be bothering Carth.]
Carth can go frick himself.
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT
I DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT IT
Name a worse RPG party member. Mainly because I can't remember any offhand.
Mira. You don't get perspective switches to Carth after he knocks you out. The resolution to Carth's backstory doesn't interrupt the final planet (with another perspective switch) for no reason.
T3 in Kotor 1 is worse by a mile.
muh trust issues
>Help him get his moronic son back
>Finally get him to stop crying and trust me
>Finds out I'm Revan
>Immediately snitches, tries to ditch me, and only reneges when the rest of the party refuses
Fricking b***h.
Kotor 2 is edgy unfinished dogshit with garbage level design, awful writing, and the worst endgame in rpg game history. A fundamental failure of a game on all fronts.
Oh yeah I forgot the fricking terrible music and graphics
Didn't Avellone write for that Jedi Fallen Order game as well?
No. He was banned from the industry for having a few drinks with some old hags and making moves on one until she told him to stop, and then he stopped.
>Allegations in 2020 stopped him from working on a game that came out in 2019
Based moron.
Let me guess, it was the actress for the dathomir witch?
Yeah. I assume this guy. Iirc he was a good jedi general who actually gave a shit about his soldiers and then fell to the dark side when they tried to kill him and he slaughtered them all.
Pretty sure Fallen Order was already out by that point. Hell Owlcat kept his work in their game because he was already done and gone by the time it came out, I think it was mainly Techland with Dying Light who had him frick off and removed his work.
The development started in like 2015
That shit was in 2018 by summer he was already out
>That shit was in 2018 by summer he was already out
https://archive~~*DOT*~~ph/ppXfQ
> Jun 25, 2020
>Over the past week, ...multiple women have accused Avellone of groping, harassment, and inappropriate behavior. Following the allegations, Dying Light 2 developer Techland formally cut ties with him.
Summer 2020
He did work on it as a freelance writer
No need to go melee, just put a blaster rifle on him and max constitution.
Avellone's writing is at its best when he is the game's lead designer too, and he hasn't done design work since the New Vegas DLCs he headed. I honestly can't tell you what he did in Fallen Order.
I remember when I was a boy and I was sparring with handmaiden and I killed her.
What is the deal with that?
Start FRICKING your female companions
DO IT NOW
DO NOT
Yes sir!
Best order? Nar Shaddaa was my first proper planet.
Onderon or Dxun next?
Nar Shaddaa - > Onderon/Dxun part 1 > Dantooine > Onderon Dxun Part 2 > Korriban
Thanks brother-cousin.
Once on Dxun there's some roadblock? To come back to after Onderon/Dantooine?
yes
You'll know when it happens
>Nar Shaddaa was my first proper planet
I'm sorry to hear that. What this guy
said is best for your sad situation. However, for anyone else's reference, the best order is objectively:
>Dantooine
>Dxun/Onderon
>Korriban
>Dxun/Onderon
>stop playing, everything else is shit, especially Nar Shaddaa
>absolutely fricking worthless in 1
>gets free force lightning in 2
but why
utility droid's can develop personality quirks if they aren't regularly memory wiped. One of his is developing Sith powers I guess.
it is pretty weird how Kotor 1 had an entire companion they was only used to open one door once yeah
I honestly like T3's design more then R2's.
Its very good.
you go to narshaddaa first to pick up mira
Hanharr*
>Go to the worst planet first specifically to get the worst companion
Thats the equivalent of saving your levels at the beginning of KOTOR 1. Nar Shadda is a slog and Mira despite being combat able is annoying as sin.
>Go to Nar Shaddaa
>Be neutral to get Mira
>Go evil
>Make her a Dark Jedi
Frick Hanharr, homosexual gets off on being belittled.
>"you're right Exile, I'm really angry and going to be a bad b***h from now on"
>buys goth makeup and black clothes from hot topic
>acts exactly the same as before
Amongst
amogus
You first go to nar shaddaa to get the lightsaber part, then you carefully make sure to not trigger the Mira cutscene and meet the owner of the ebon hawk to get all that exp from the slavers. Finally, you fight Visas at lvl 15 and get your proper lightsaber and do whatever you want from that point onwards
>using a lightsaber
Gotta get those sweet experience points maybe it was 1000? 200/400? i don't remember to pop speed 3 and start fricking shit up with fully upgraded mandalorian rippers
Canderous is the strongest companion in both games if you build him for melee.
>mannan
I really need to replay k1 just for the deep sea base.
I remember it being fricking awful but the idea is cool as shit
>I remember it being fricking awful but the idea is cool as shit
This describes a lot of kotor 1 honestly
The underwater base is way too short to be "fricking awful". It's mediocre, but I really have no strong feelings about it. The rest of Manaan is great, though. I love getting arrested for fighting through the sith embassy.
How do I stop bring Kreia everywhere, every time I step off my ship? Even though this is my forth playthrough but my first in maybe five years. I'm always putting others on the backburner as I really just want her with me.
You guys like that w/ any KOTOR 2 part member? I like to pair her w/ Visas since she fricking hates her.
But only every rotate her, the Handmaiden and Atton. I also like to bring HK-47 out when I can. I feel I gimp some player stories this way.
Is there a best party member for each planet?
you dont need Kreia unless you plan to minmax your xp
I just like her comments, snark and insight and while she's an old b***h I always rp as her being absolutely my Master.
I guess I'm asking about prime influence opportunities and if there's a big narrative advantage to bringing certain characters out on planets. I've played thiss a few times but suppose I never have really dug super deep.
maybe you could rp as someone who regards Kreia as a dying old Jedi, whose only value is to offer sage advice
idk just my thought
I have enough influence for frick face Atton to tell me why he left the Sith but I get a failed check whenever I do.
Nice arguement Chris, almost as good as your writing.
>Treya
>'trays ya
bravo obsidian
>hey guys, what if this pulp fiction setting that does not support real life logic wasn't a pulp fiction setting and had real life logic crowbarred into it
It's better than the Prequels and Sequels, but it's still just space monks with lazer swords. Any effort you put into it is wasted.
>ho serfs, what if 't be true this fiction setting yond doest not supp'rt real life logic wasn't a fiction setting and hadst real life logic crowbarr'd into t
T's bett'r than the prequels and sequels, but t's still just space augurers with powd'r fireth weapons. Any eff'rt thee putteth into t is did waste
>It's better than the Prequels and Sequels
>I only like my star Wars when it's serious and edgy!
Frick off.
Get some reading comprehension, I'm saying KOTOR 2 isn't worth the effort that went into making it and that it's inferior to the OT.
Kotor 1 and 2 are superior to all the SW movies and any other SW piece of media.
>when you realize all the morons who buy the 1 and 2 remakes will ensure a Disneyfied KOTOR 3 gets made
>mfw they're digging their own graves and will thank Disney® for the opportunity
>Jedi Fallen Order
It feels so fricking vanilla. After all those great games in the past, it's just mediocre. Not to mention the Force powers are bland as hell too.
>Did you have feelings for him? Did you touch him? Did you look upon him with love? Did you suck his big black Jedi wiener you filthy bawd?
Umm Obsidian bros...
she didn't say that, although black revan sounds based
Revan is Mulletman, Exile is Jedi Jesus. This is canon.
she didnt say the last sentence, you didnt play the game please have a nice day
Cope, it's there in the TSL if you're playing a black Exile
>no proof
because why would anyone lie on the internet, right?
The only dead thing I found was a terrible MMO sequel.
>40 year old milf geta wet at mere thought about him
>big titty shorthair muscle girl worship him
>My life is yours
>redhead bawd says he is too old for her
>main villian also amazed by him
How does he do it
>him
Yes
Cutting yourself from the Force makes everyone want to suck your dick rather than suck the Force's dick.
i think people overexaggerate how big a deal the morally greyness in kotor 2 is
obsidian just put a lot more thought into their worlds and individual locations than bioware which results in them feeling morally complex because they feel more like real places. nowhere in the world is completely black and white with an extremely straightforward history so why would anywhere in star wars be like that?
for instance, it makes total sense that a big corporation would force their way in to the telos restoration project because the amount of influence and power it would buy them in the long term would be immense. the result is different interest groups with different ideals trying to advance their own interests which is just what life is like. a bioware kotor 2 they would have czerka deliberately trying to ruin the planet because "sith evil" is a macro story note they want to hit, which is fine for what bioware is going for but a lot of the micro story stuff tends to suffer for it
Yeah I’m inclined to agree, the appeal of KOTOR 2 isn’t necessarily that it’s morally grey it’s that it feels more like an actual setting where the people in it act like real people and that just naturally lends itself to being morally grey because it’s more like real life
Like you see the actual consequences of the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, there are refugees everywhere, the Republic is heavily destabilized due to all of the losses which leads to a coup on certain planets, average people don’t even really know the difference between the Jedi and the Sith because they’ve been fighting for so long and there’s been so much collateral damage
KOTOR 9.5/10
KOTOR II 3/10 and killed the series
What exactly went wrong?
what's with the falseflagging
Nar Shaddaa is actually my favourite planet. The only thing that sucks about it is the perspective shifts. Korriban is the worst by virtue of the fact that you can tell they wanted to do more with it, but ran out of dev time.
korriban is pure suffering if you're a force user, especially light sided
even more suffering when you tries to play a balanced alignment, you literally get content locked