NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE HEARTS ONLY WE CAN DO THAT
 UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
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UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE HEARTS ONLY WE CAN DO THAT
NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE HEARTS ONLY WE CAN DO THAT
UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
|
UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
>I WON'T LET YOU UNRAPE SHIHO, THAT'S PRECIOUS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT GOING INTO THE TRASH MARUKI, FRICK YOU
Maruki doesn't have time traveling powers dude.
They have established that he literally can change the history of events so it's not just that she forgot she was raped, she actually never was in his reality.
That's moronicly OP for a persona, I wanna headcanon that the people he "brought back" were npcs and it's just memory alter tbh, Atlus can't be trusted with keeping it reasonable
>That's moronicly OP for a persona
It's not his persona's ability per se. His persona's ability just can change individuals cognition. It's the fact that he took control of Mementos and that Mementos is fusing with the real world that lets him (a) target a large number of people simultaneously, and (b) actually reality-warp present and past, since what is in cognition = reality in the fused world.
He brought multiple dead people back to life.
It's fair to say he can fix a hymen and a psyche.
>playing God, brainwashing, and bringing back the dead is a good thing
Yes. Do you have an actual argument, beyond that the existential implications are unnerving?
Literally science.
>bringing back the dead is wrong
Why would this ever be a bad thing in any logical world?
As long as you let people that want to stay dead for religious or suicidal/nihilist reasons go back, there's literally no downsides to bringing back the dead.
You can argue that people will go insane and degenerate after a while since life no longer has any real meaning and they no longer have goals, but that's already started happening now due the ease of technology, transportation, and ability to have whatever the frick you want shipped to you through the net, and people aren't even immortal yet.
Assuming that most people who've died want to still live then how would you accommodate bringing back so many people?
That's assuming we'd suddenly get the ability to bring back people in this era,
By the time we reach immortality, we'd probably have people living throughout the galaxy, or some way to digitize life.
and unless we're talking about cloning here, only people that froze their bodies have a realistic chance of returning
Yeah I was admittedly thinking in the current or near future. Going beyond that into biological immortality or digital preservation poses it's own questions since at that point the very concept of death, and by extension revival, would have to be rethought. I don't envy whatever future society might face those challenges.
Defeating mortality would bring about the most decadent age of man that could possibly come in all of its history. Same goes with time-traveling.
Either Ganker is moronic or purposely misunderstanding what Maruki did. He didn't change time. He just warped everyone's perception of reality. So basically
>Shiho: Dr. Maruki, I was raped
>Maruki: But what if you weren't lol
Don't they specifically say that Wakaba really came back to life, they weren't just imagining her
Nope. They thought she came back to life. It was Futaba imagining her alive because that's what she always wanted, and the people around her perceived her as alive because they wanted to see Futaba happy or some shit.
Again this was just a fake Akechi conjured up by everyone's imagination. In the main story they didn't want Akechi to die so in the false reality he is alive.
speedreader
>this was just a fake Akechi
How was he fake? He's literally there. This is reality warping supernatural magic shit anon.
> they didn't want Akechi to die
I don't know about they. Only Joker cared.
>false reality
The only thing false about it is that it's not set in place. Once Maruki won it would be irreversible.
What makes it any more fake than ours at that point? Ever heard of Brain in the vat scenario?
It's all fake moron, maruki's persona mind rapes everyone into believing the illusion. Nobody comes back to life, it's a fricking shadow masquerading as the dead person. It's escapism. Can't you see? It's not healthy!
The game literally says that's not the case.
And where does it say that frickface?
Play the game
Your screenshot proves nothing, frickface
grow up
>Gets his headcanon proven to be false
>"FRICKYOU! GROW UP!"
Like poetry really
>Right.
>As far as I understand it.
haven't played a persona game, how do you know which dialogue choice to pick?
It doesn't matter. The game has a bunch of these dialogue options where what you say doesn't even change the following dialogue in anyway. It's done just so your character actually says something occasionally.
>They aren't cognitive beings
>the whole world is made up of cognition
Pick one Atlus
moron
I thought the whole deal is that these things were real or about to become real. With the Mementos and Reality merged the fact that people believed it to be true made it that way. Just like Yabadabadoo un-existed the Phantom thieves by making everyone forget about them, Maruki was able to make these people alive again. Wasn't the deadline the point where separating Mementos from Reality would be impossible and the changes would become permanent?
No dumbass, both Wakaba and Kunikazu never died in Maruki's reality. Stop skipping through the dialogue.
She was a cognitive being like those NPC people in the casino and boat levels. Basically just an imaginary creation based on what people who perceived Wakaba to be like.
See
Uhh...
He did, though. I would know, I did a year and a half long Let's Play of Royal shitting on it for how bad the writing was. He outright tells you that Wakaba and Akechi are real, the problem is that the writing is so inconsistent because instead of coming up with anything original, they stole Maki's plotline from Persona 1 and tried to shoehorn it to fit because what Satomi Tadashi creates, Rehashino steals.
There are people that comes back to life bro
Did you seriously forget the part where cognition becomes reality? The Phantom Thieves literally got un-existed because people didn't think they were real anymore. Maruki changing cognition IS changing reality.
>The Phantom Thieves literally got un-existed because people didn't think they were real anymore.
This part never made sense btw. Firstly, it made sense people didn't believe they existed (especially their allies), and more importantly secondly, their civilian selves should be remembered by a lot of people.
Mementos and the physical world merged, so the Phantom Thieves and their alter-egos were one and the same as far as the collective unconscious was concerned. A few lone voices aren't enough to sway it.
>so the Phantom Thieves and their alter-egos were one and the same as far as the collective unconscious was concerned.
Why did the non-belief in the phantom thieves override the belief in their civilian selves? They don't even have a solid image in their heads about what they look like (aside from Joker's masked face and the team's sihouettes). And why did they stop believing the Phantom Thieves existed in the first place?
Because we need our everything going wrong moment before the gang unites with rekindled hope
I played this whole game drunk how to exit mementos?
I fricking hate how you seemingly can't use Goho-Ms in Mementos. Like what the frick? I'm expected to drive all the way back to the first floor should I decide to continue exploring? Frick you.
It's so that you can't use it to easily go back to start where you can travel between rest spots and save.
That might be the single most stupid fricking thing I've ever heard.
you homosexual that is fricking retarted
Lavenza tells you he's rewriting reality and that he could erase Joker from existence
This but unironically
Without rape, Shiho is background character tier
She pretty much becomes that girl from Makoto's SL
Does the game really goes its okay when we do it?
its the morality of greater men
>n-no b-b-b-but what abou-
cope
Is that a Jason Griffith photoshop?
>its the morality of greater men
This is cuck ideology
No, in the vanilla game that was the lesson learned with the Holy Grail. 3rd Semester is them proving they understood the moral implications of what they did.
literally yes what the characters do in the first 3 palaces are literally the same as what "the bad guys" are doing but brainlets will justify what they did because in the end they technically did stop the end of the world(although thats the same ends justify means logic as the baddie). I was shocked by how much I hated the entire groups philosophy and goals in this game compared to other personas
>NOOOO YOU HAVE TO LET KAMOSHIDA KEEP RAPING YOUR FRIENDS!!!!! IT IS INMORAL TO TAKE HIS FREEDOM TO RAPE!!!
Vanilla had to have gone through multiple rewrites because they were 100% signposting the Phantom Thieves being The Real Villains All Along (TM), only to abruptly drop that plot point and do some moronic shit about the Holy Grail
Say what you will about Royale, but it at least draws the parallel between Maruki and the Phantom Thieves
It does actually. Seeing the picture just reminded how fricking moronic Persona 5 was
No. Gankereddit is literally too braindead for the plot of a game for Japanese teens.
this is sadly exactly the case with every single Purse Owner game, and no, I am fricking not suggesting the series is deep; just that Ganker is THAT moronic.
someone dies because of them and they have a small moment where they say "maybe it was not okay after all" then they continue doing it anyway
Haru should've been the traitor
Nah, phantom thieves remove distortions from people's hearts, they never know what the result will be, Maruki outright mind controls people.
>someone dies because of them
Someone died because Akechi fricking killed him to frame them.
>remove distortions from people's hearts
Isn't it kind of a copout to say all the people they disagree with just happened to be distorted?
It's a copout but it's just what happens in the story. Call it bad writing if you want.
That's literally how lefties think, lmao
>you're on the wrong side of history
>Does the game really goes
frick everyone replying to this like its english
No and anyone who says yes really is an idiot or didn't play the game.
After Haru's dad dies the only go after targets that after Sae to mislead Akechi and don't even change her heart, Shido because he was using the palaces himself to power grab and was a literal murderer about to be prime minister and then decide to kill mementos and get rid of their own powers.
And then they go right back to doing it in all the spinoff content and post P5 media.
Based Joker
I didn't play Strikers but let me guess, they have no real counter to this and just go into "GRRR LETS FIGHT!" mode?
They say "We free people, you enslave people" like with Maruki.
well he was taking away peoples desires turning them into drones
The difference in Strikers is that all the antagonist are sympathetic and don't have nakedly evil motivations, which the characters acknowledge. That guy was mercilessly beaten as a child, his father killed his mother & openly states his intention to murder him, so he stabs his father to death and fakes a robbery then turns into Elon Musk.
>I can do whatever I want and it's justified because I had a sad childhood
Literally the most shallow way to write a sympathetic villain.
meh, you can reduce everything like that if you want to
he was trying to be a hero he didnt have, but in absolute way, similar to maruki he wanted to reach everyone
>openly states his intention to murder him
Just want to let everyone know that the localization made this part up, in the original Japanese version the father literally tried to murder him after killing the mother, his only crime was fighting back and covering it up.
They changed it in the localization because they thought it would confuse people since he apologies for self-defense, because Japanese law doesn't really give a frick about self-defense.
But the translators ARE writers of the game
>Noooo, you targeted a few rapists, murderers and corrupt politicians into admitting their crimes, it's totally the same as me brainwashing an entire group of people into being my drones.
Yes. Once you start brainwashing people into being what you consider to be an appropriate way to be, you don't get to cry "He's EBUL!!!" when someone else starts doing that too.
They targeted Okumura because he was a dick to his daughter, not because of his actual crimes
He was a corrupt CEO who ordered a hit on his competitors and they knew there was a link between them. Haru's situation was a factor but not the only one and the whole point later is that they admit they were manipulated into doing that palace and should have thought it through more.
That's another thing that irks me, the PT only go after people that personally affect them.
They could be removing the powerful pieces of shit that control society behind the scenes, but they only do it if said rich and power butthole called one of their friends a b***h or something.
Akechi is really the worst written character ever.
>Went out of your way
I just happened to be in the area during meme ntos
How are these 2 the same? Changing someone's heart is not brainwashing.
>just live in muh demiurge metaverse forever bro
Why not just kill everyone at that point?
Because it's about control
Don't really get how this is the same. Everyone is moving around, going to school, doing track, Ann is modeling, Yusuke is doing his art.
Seems like a huge false equivalence.
>The girl in the box is moving around and going to school, the person in the box next to them is modeling, the person next to them is doing their art…
But they aren't in a box.
How do you know you aren't in a box right now, then?
The person in the comic submitted to the simulation and has knowledge they did.
There's no simulation in that comic though it's just happy drug.
>How do you know you aren't in a box right now, then?
welcome to reality brobro
If you are happy and unaware its a simulation, literally whats the issue?
Hedonism box philosophical discussion aside, if you talk to NPCs it's clear he's mind controlling them against their will. For example a guy says he wants a gf, and the NPC girl near him slowly falls in love with him while talking about how she doesn't understand what's happening. Depending on your ideas on free will and personality, he's basically killing people via identity overwrite.
>For example a guy says he wants a gf, and the NPC girl near him slowly falls in love with him while talking about how she doesn't understand what's happening.
Alright Marukigays tell me why exactly is this different from rape.
It's mindraep. It's the type of selfish power fantasy you'd often see in YA novels.
this but unironically
Not him but I think you will find 99% of your problems are caused by people or were avertable with foresight and planning.
My problems were caused by misfortune. Other people were merely misfortune's vessel. Think about it. Do you choose your genetic code? Your body's overal health? The family you're born into? The culture and earning potential of your home? Yet everything I suffered was a result of factors such as these. That's what life in this world is, a glorified game of poker where the individual will is subsumed by fortune and the caprice of the gods. It's a meaningless experience.
>do this and avoid people
>"wtf why are you avoiding people and being a recluse??????"
You homies are never happy.
No one has an actual argument as for why this is bad beyond
>IT JUST IS, OKAY?!?!?!?!
I prefer the ugly guy from P4 bait threads to these ones
I hope the next purseowner game has better party members. 5 was kind of weak in that aspect
Reminder that Caligula Effect did this concept better.
most games did this better. Star Trek TNG did this better.
>No risk taking Picard
it was a good Q episode
>takes freedom away from innocent lives fircefully
Free will is an illusion
Ur butt is an illusion
I would have said “ur wiener is an illusion”, but to each their own.
this game has no bite
new to Persona games?
A better character than both of them.
God I want to snap those legs
Is what Marche said when he saw his brother walking
why would i want my life controlled by a well-meaning therapist instead of 50 nihilistic corporations?
>well-meaning
You mom was also well meaning, why didn't you obey her?
You guys really like to suck wiener huh.
>You don't get it, I HAVE to COONSOOM
If you love Maruki so much why don't you marry him?
Would he alter reality to have himself get married to (You)?
god I wish
And this is why we don't play escapist fantasies for incels, we are better than them
When comes down to it, the game is nothing but hardcore capitalist bootlicker propaganda. Insane dicksucking for the Japanese status quo
>insane dicksucking for the Japanese status quo
>the main villains are the Japanese status quo
???
They're a few bad actors, but by the end of the story what does Atlus really commit to? Where does it loop back to? Theyve shown their actual stance pretty clearly
Huh?
I read it as a socialist uprising, shitty adults representing the bourgeoisie, and the Phantom Thieves/supporters representing the proletariat
Nta, it's like that early on but later on it pretty openly treats the idea with contempt. All the PTs who join after Yusuke are in positions of power or related to people who are. Haru even becomes a good, kind capitalist after her father's death.
Some other funny things are the Phantom Thieves being anti-democracy post-Shido, and Kasumi critiquing the concept of social safety nets.
>Kasumi critiquing the concept of social safety nets.
I don't remember this lol. Isn't Yoshida hinted to be a somewhat radical progressive?
All that aside, my feel on P5 is less that it wants to bootlick capitalism and more that it is just not equipped to be able to critique economic superstructure. Like most stories written by people who don't get a chance to be challenged about whether their society fundamentally conducts itself 'correctly'. But I get how it's frustrating in a game about rebeling against society.
>hardcore capitalist bootlicker propagand
Did you not play the 3rd, 5th, and 7th Palaces?
Why yes, my reality is the only one that matters
Frick the demiurge
>cheating at a videogame
>doesn’t actually make you good at it
>robs people who worked hard of their success
>Maruki’s reality
>cheater just magically becomes good at game and everyone who worked hard start sucking and give up
How many of these dogshit threads are we going to have?
Ganker will be coping with P5 forever
persona is so fricking gay
I think anyone that talks about persona in any way should be fricking shot myself included
Ok.
>change a person's heart because he cheated in an Arcade game
There's also a cut side quest in which you changed a person's heart because he pirated a video game, lmao.
>there are young "men" who want to look and act like an Atlus protag
bleak
guilty as charged
You will never be an Atlus protagonist.
So cute!
If Maruki is so right then how come he isn't and is dumb?
Checkmate Marukigays
The issue is that the PT's were making people more or less recognize their actions as morally wrong by taking the core of what corrupted them, as straight up ego death would cause someone to mentally collapse. They couldn't have known it was for the purpose of an entity trying to rob the free will from humanity.
Maruki was trying to make it so people with aspirations would give up and veer towards what he personally thought would be best for them. Even forgetting the whole "false reality would overwrite reality" thing, if Maruki thought you'd be the best football star when you wanted to be a painter, you'd be compelled to drop the brush and pick up a pigskin unaware of the manipulation. Essentially homogenizing the human experience into a game of The Sims.
It's not really equivalent and is Maruki's desire to run away from his own personal difficulties taken to its ultimate extreme where everyone is a quitter just for the sake of avoiding any sort of pain.
>The issue is that the PT's were making people more or less recognize their actions as morally wrong by taking the core of what corrupted them
AKA they were forcing people to act how they thought they should act.
Not really, they just removed the thing that was warping their cognition and allowed them to be able to reflect on their actions again. Nothing was stopping them from thinking about what they did and deciding they still didn't care.
Although a person like that probably wouldn't have developed a palace in the first place.
correct
thank you two for not being moronic
The PTs were brainwashing the only free thinkers of society.
The whole "warped cognition" aspect of palaces is dumb. Most criminals are not literally delusional, at least not moreso than normal people. What distinguishes normal desires from the "twisted" ones that become treasures?
Palace-holding individuals aren't very common. Nascent treasures are common as seen across Mementos, but they only evolve into a Palace when the individual with warped perception completely runs amok and develops megalomania.
Those nascent treasures come about when you start distorting reality, which is honestly something nearly everyone does. Which is why nearly everyone has a shadow, and only a few people are objective enough to hold Personae and see with eyes unclouded.
You don't have to be "literally delusional" to have common doublethink or hypocrisy.
Noooooo you can't just make people be happy! Because muh free will or some bullshit.
>Didn't give Joker a harem.
He got what he deserved.
>Phantom Thieves stop believing in Maruki's reality
>their dead parents vanish
>Akechi doesn't vanish
Did he actually just live after the boat but the thing Maruki changed was him taking the fall for you with the prison sentence?
>Despite being a set protag the game ask for your preferred pronouns and even went far enough to sometimes call you "Isabelle"
>you can choose between being black or white
>you play as a virgin
>the first few bosses are 100% aryans who wear variants of the same corrupted space suit, they want to kill you on sight
>every time they kill you they say "such an inferior being, will do good soap"
>The final boss is a troony who is revealed to be the actual hero who is trying to protect the deep space from the actual villain which is a conservative white man who insist on calling you with female or male pronouns despite no one else doing this.
>The helpful NPCs are all space explorers who have white scientist by their side
>One of the gestures in the game is a strange mix between triller dance and twerking
>All of the ship areas have female bosses, you often will beat a creature and then a stronger female boss will appear.
>There's a mention of gamergate (it's very subtle)
>One of the NPCs references Rosa Parks
>When you get the option to change your appearance (yes even gender) an NPC will tell you "I'm glad you are proud of who you really are"
>there's a pic of a BLM mural on a holographic sign and the description says "a painting dedícated to those brave explorers surviving the dead space" once you find this you can get a special armor upgrade called "King's Quick revive" (reference to Rodney King, victim of Police brutality)
>Some NPCs will often mention of how there's always "evil beings" stealing the lighting of more deserving people (probably a reference to how black people believe that Edison stole a Black folk invention when he made the lightbulb)
>There's a Chadwick Bozeman reference, on a lore recording who tells the story of a space explorer that was "as fierce as a panther"
There's lots of other shit the devs crammed in here just to tell us that they are pro white genocide and hate their audience
i don't remember this part of persona 5
>as fierce as a panther
>Ann is panther
What the actual frick are you talking about you ass-blasted delusional homosexual?
It's a copypasta, pretty sure it was made for the Dead Space remake
That makes sense. I didn't even know there was a Dead Space remake.
there wasn't on switch
Ganker loves to shitpost about the reality and what's ethical and if it's sour grapes etc, but what made P5R so great is that it really all came down to character writing.
Maruki is trying to free everyone from pain because his own loss broke him. His distorted desire has led him to project his fear onto everyone he cares about.
The phantoms are rebeling because they were able to grow from their pain and come together and do great things as a result; unlike Maruki who believes everyone should run away, the thieves deeply believe in confronting it all head on.
And both want to save each other. The Thieves love Dr Maruki and recognize from their knowledge of palaces that Maruki is in deep repressed pain that cannot be helped unless the palace - and his reality - is destroyed.
Maruki's last appeal to Joker isn't about morals or rape statistics. Instead he uses Joker's wish, the return of Akechi, as leverage, pushing the idea that stopping Maruki will kill Joker's closest confidant and only mental equal.
When he summons Adam Kadmon, Maruki's will to fight on isn't about justice or equity. It's about his own limitations and failure.
That's the thing with these arguments, they're plotted out like debating law and chaos in SMT mainline. But P5R is character- and relationships-first, and the story excels thanks to that. In fact I'd say the Royal chapter blows just about any other JRPG out of the water.
Really hope the writer for the new royal stuff is the writer for 4.
I hear the old persona guy has left now.
>4
Do you mean 6?
Royal has the same lead writer as vanilla 5. The director of vanilla, as well as 3 and 4, has left Persona to work on Project Re Fantasy, which we still know nothing about, and the replacement director for Royal had only directed 4 Golden before.
>grow from their pain and come together to do great things
yeah and we all know they're going to grow up to be business men and act as just more cogs in the machine when they're out of school like good little japppy wappys.
stupid fricking story about children.
>bringing back akechi
why does joker want this edgy homosexual that tried to kill him to come back?
i hate fujos man they ruin stories all of the time
I beat the shit out of Maruki, pounded Ohya's pussy one more time, and went home to play some Persona 5 Royal. Both sides are being morons but I'm playing as Joker so I (and by extension Joker) are right.
There is no difference between Maruki's world and Yaldabaoth's world. It just feels nicer because there's no bone towers and blood rain.
And people aren't dying en masse. And they get to see their loved ones again and achieve everything they ever dreamed of.
Except not everyone gets to experience that in Maruki's realty, dumbass. There's still homeless people in the subway after all. All it takes is someone with a stronger will than yours, wishing you were suffering and it'll happen.
They won't miss their loved ones and they'll achieve everything they ever dreamed of under Yaldabaoth too.
ITT: People who did not play Persona 2 completely missing and misunderstanding the point and extent of power of Maruki's Persona.
It was literal reality bending you dumbfricks, same one that is showcased during the climax of Persona 5.
what happens after marookie dies tho?
He probably can make himself immortal.
The question isn't "Is Maruki's reality really better" because it clearly is.
The question is "Would you be willing to hand over omnipotence to a clearly broken man for it"
A lot of Japanese writing, at least in their anime media, is always full of ethical contradictions like this.
Take Naruto
>No Sasuke revenge is bad!
>Meanwhile Shikamaru gets to barbecue the guy who killed his sensei
Naruto didn't really reject Saucegay's wish to kill his brother, he just didn't want him to act like a kid being handed a free candy by someone who's clearly a shady badguy. It was even more justified in shippuden when the moron duckhead started killing everyone else who he personally deemed to be complicit of Danzo. And that's not even touching the absolute mental moronation he had gotten after Kaguya's fight.
NTA, but it's not about Naruto, the story is clearly trying to convey that Sasuke's obsession with revenge is bad, it's making him do crazy shit and he wasn't satisfied at all once he achieved it, which would be fine if it didn't also glorify the act of taking revenge with Shikamaru at the same time.
To be fair Shikamaru was fully justified on killing Hidan whether it's personal or not since Hidan's a terrorist and he's a soldier, but yeah I get your point.
Well, Sasuke was justified too, the village did jackshit for like 5 years regarding a guy who killed his entire family.
revenge is okay, being obsessed with it to the point of making it your sole purpose isn't okay
Persona 5 Part 3 when? (part 2 is Strikers)
he looks like his sassy older brother
I hate how in P4 and P5 (base version) basically all character conflict is solved ~10 hours or so before the actual ending. I don't give a frick what you foreshadowed or if its a SMT trope, but beating Adachi/Shido and then getting a whole dungeon (or 2 in golden) where the main villian is god is just so fricking bland. Especially when adachi/shido were both essentially controlled by the gods, so whatever metaphysical/moral story you wanted to tell could've just as easily been told fighting them in the first place.
Then again, everyone knows this now, since in P5 royal the third semester proves this. You can do the fight "gord and society" thing while actually having an antagonist with character.
I'm willing to go as far as to say if I'd played P5 with the original ending I'd probably stopped with the series there. It's a saving grace that the games tend to fellate you with the social aspect at the end, because otherwise finishing a persona game all you'd remember is the absolute worst parts of the game, the last dungeon with shitty story and trivial gameplay.
At least fighting gods makes sense in P5 because gods are the ultimate authority figure
havent played i a while but doesnt maruki say he's doing the same thing as them?
They're both brainwashing and change shit for the better.
>still having this dumbass debate
It's a teenager wish fulfilment game. The only morality that matters is the one strictly benefiting the group. It's persona 4 all iver again, except even more blatant about it. The truth is Maruki's world is worse than the real world for Joker, so the game will bend itself over to maje Maruki seem the worse choice.
>The only morality that matters is the one strictly benefiting the group. It's persona 4 all over again,
Adachi killed people, anon.
The persona 4 gang didn't pursue Adachi because of morality, but because it was a nice, teenager activity to do while they bonded and hit on each other, and played with cool powers. If hunting down Adachi was a tedious, lonely affair full of self sacrifice and of a mundane nature, not a single P4 character (except for Naoto, who wasn't doing shit out of the kindness of her heart) would've lifted a single to capture him. When they confront Adachi in the end, yes, he was a pos murderer, but the group were more concerned about their relationships and virtue signalling to each other than about stopping the serial killer. He was an amusing goal for attractive, fulfilled, successful teenagers to bond over. By the end of the game, they were so insufferable I was rooting for Adachi, who while being a weasel, had the spirit of freedom in him, looking to achieve something beyond himself, to break the chains that had always put him down. A lash against a society that squashed him, the roasties that he killed unlikable adulterous and two faced prostitutes.
Adachi was based, and I'm tired of pretending that he's not.
>If hunting down Adachi was a tedious, lonely affair full of self sacrifice and of a mundane nature, not a single P4 character (except for Naoto, who wasn't doing shit out of the kindness of her heart) would've lifted a single to capture him.
They did not find a single clue for nearly a year and were going to kill an innocent man over it.
>A lash against a society that squashed him, the roasties that he killed unlikable adulterous and two faced prostitutes.
>Meet a nice guy
>Guy turns out to be cheating on his wife with you.
>Get your talk show cancelled, your career ruined beyond repair, and everyone across Japan thinks you're a massive prostitute.
>Even your lover abandons you when you need him most.
>Some schizo pries into your business, calls you a worthless b***h, and throws you into another dimension where you are ripped limb from limb by cosmic monstrosities.
>Apparently you are the bad guy in this.
Funny how even when jap game devs/writers who aren't terribly well socially adjusted in the first place, group up to write a guy whos a bit too much of a bitter loser even for them, someone on 4chin goes to bat for the character.
You aren't being a cool edgelord, you're just outing yourself as identifying with a murderous incel.
Yes i do sympathize with the murderous incel over idols, rich kids, prodigies and their mascots.
Sounds like a self esteem thing
>underdog catches a break and can finally have power
>is crushed by a Chad and his harem of sycophan, all born winners
No wonder Adachi is one of, if not the most popular character of P4. The despicable man who broke from his chains is more likeable than the group of beautiful, gifted, blessed teens that gang up on him, as the tendril of society that found a way to put him down even when in a supernatural world. It's like when moralgays try to derail and ruin your campaign. Adachi freedom, with all its negativity.
>The despicable man who broke from his chains
Broke from his chains how? The guy is a fricking loser entirely off of his own accord. He's lazy and completely spineless. He can't even be straight with a grandma and tell her shes bothering him or that he doesn't her food, instead hiding from her and telling stupid lies to avoid confronting the elderly woman. But as soon as he has an ear to b***h at he'll complain to the MC. Then, when he gets a modicum of power his misanthropic ass just lashes out at people because he can't get what he wants (pussy), all the while lying about his motivations to both the MC and himself. Also even people who show nothing but genuine kindness/ affection for him are fair game to let die and be lied to.
The game even spells it out for you when Adachi says "Maybe if I was a little more like you, things would've turned out different". He's not referring to the fact that they are "beautiful, gifted, blessed", but the fact that the main characters actually faced their flaws and took responsibility, while he was an asshat who externalized every little thing wrong in his life.
Well you see, I identify with Adachi too much, and if I admit his flaws, I may have to examine my own flaws. That makes me uncomfortable.
>work hard
>be put down again and again
>give up, become a weasel lazy frick, because, well, why wouldn't you? Hard work and earnestness only get you kicked down
>acquire power, finally decide to make something out of it, even if negatively
>"oy vey goy, you should've been a good little cuck, slave away while your life spirals downward and downward. Don't rebel, keep trying hard while getting cucked out of everything in life"
Adachi was the personification of individualism Persona loves to claim their heroes seek out. That shit comes with negative traits, it's petty and is the real feelings nesting inside him. But it's honest, and admirable in a fricked up way. I respect less the honest, hard working Adachi who would've died forgotten and alone in his little cuckshed in the boonies, over the one that tried to be something more, even if he failed that something more was evil.
>even if negatively
So you're admitting he's a hypocrite right?
Why does he get to complain and then take it out on people who he put in similar situations? It'd be one thing if he just used his power to make himself money or something but he's just as bad as the people who keep him down.
>Being a b***h at the first sign of pushback
>personification of individualism
Let me guess, you unironically call yourself a sigma male
You're acting like the only choices Adachi had is to either become a depressed wage cuck or being a school shooter.
>give up, become a weasel lazy frick
The only source we have of Adachi "working hard" in the past is Adachi, and seeing as he lies pretty much about everything else and acts completely the opposite during the events the player witnesses, I think trusting him on that point is a bit naive.
>acquire power, finally decide to make something out of it, even if negatively
Again, what did he "make out of it" exactly, cheap thrills while costing the lives of people who were kind to him? He's just a destructive idiot lashing out.
>slave away while your life spirals downward and downward. Don't rebel, keep trying hard while getting cucked out of everything in life
The funny thing is he still has to go to work and get pushed around even while he murdered people. Also he isn't even able to leverage his power to get the things he actually wants, ie. women or respect.
>But it's honest, and admirable in a fricked up way
>one that tried to be something more
Nah, it's just being an unapologetic butthole. Adachi is the definition of giving up and blaming everyone else. A dude who became so obsessed that life isn't always fair, that they refused to improve or even try at all. If you find that admirable then I hope you never find yourself in a similar sad situation.
catches a break and can finally have power
>Uses that power to bully helpless people.
He has no right to complain then.
>kills two roasties
Should've given him a medal holy shit
it just occurred to me, if Joker was too mega gay to deny Maruki's reality can Myriad Truths dispel Azathoth?
Indubitably.
well cheater did have distorted desires because he was trying to cope with rl failures
This was made by someone who thinks Naoto is trans.
Funny how the Phantom Thieves ended up being the biggest establishment simps, willing to fight to the death to protect the status quo. Seems like using supernatural powers to make things go the way you want is only moral if you're handsome teens
>Phantom Thieves ended up being the biggest establishment simps, willing to fight to the death to protect the status quo
Humor me as I give a serious response:
You can argue that this is effectively what happens "in lore", because we don't see proof to the contrary, but thats obviously not the point/ message the game is trying to get across.
P4 and P5 are about individualism. How you shouldn't just go through life as others have set it before you. Not to believe convenient lies and find your own meaning and truth and grow as a person. Even if it means suffering and hardship. Thats why it always and entirely rejects the benevolent dictator or god.
Now obviously the problem is that in the games, only the antagonists and people touched by the MC are generally depicted with any sort of agency, but the spirit of the whole thing is supposed to be that everyone has the capability to take charge of their destiny ( aka. awaken their persona), and make their life for themselves.
It's naive, and not really a philosophy that society should be built around, but it's a teen story, and empowering in it's own right.
Naivety and teenage power fantasies are not really excusing their hypocrisy, and it doesn't change the fact that they're despicable and well on their way to become the power abusing adults they hate. The disingenuous nature of the way the express their individualism and force it on others is unpleasant; it's revenge and wielding power for their own selfish desires, while claiming they only do so for the good of others. What kills me is the dishonesty of the characters. If they went "I'm gonna forgive the mass murderer Akechi, while I literally brainwashed other frickers for less shit, because I'm powerful and do whatever the frick I want" is less insulting than "w-we gotta change society, but uhhhh let's forgive Akechi and go after the ONE dude actively trying to make shit better for everyone, without even trying to find a middle ground". Yes, the villains were mostly rat pieces of shit that deserved to be put down. But don't go and say you're a freedom fighter. You only did it because they directly fricked with you. And you'd go after a virtuous man that stood im your way, and forgive an unrepentant murderer if you liked him. I'd trust Maruki over the Phantom Thieves on principle, because I sure as hell know they have no one's but their own interests in mond when wielding their power.
>And you'd go after a virtuous man that stood in your way,
Yea! Like Sae, Futaba, Mishima....oh wait.
>and forgive an unrepentant murderer if you liked him.
All though I too dislike how quickly they went on the sympathy train, especially after how much Akechi fricked with them, they did not forgive him.
More like PTs fight so the establishment does its fricking job and locks up the bad guys.
>Funny how the Phantom Thieves ended up being the biggest establishment simps, willing to fight to the death to protect the status quo.
yeah that part was funny
well being a hypocrite is basically a prerequisite for a JRPG protag and Persona 5 has awful fricking writing even by JRPG standards
>YOU HAVE TO COMPLETE THE CONFIDANT OF THIS GEEK UNLIKEABLE CHARACTER IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE CANON POST GAME
hahahahah frick this "game" and frick atus
>UNLIKEABLE
You'll like him in Royal if you're not a dimwit.
Just download CE table and set the third semester flag to true. I did that after I learned the game fricks you over and have no regrets.
>in b4 consolegay
lol
If you don't trigger the third semester, doesn't it mean Maruki loses by default?
>be orphan in shithole country
>abused and starved, never known love
>desire parents and love over anything else
>dying of hunger in a gutter
>suddenly, you're in a nice warm house with your family
>you're in heaven, happiness that you could never know cleanses your soul
>a future of unending happiness awaits
>suddenly, you're whisked back to reality
>you curse your existence as you fade away in pain, in the stinking dark, forgotten
>because a Japanese pretty boy from a well off family in a first world country was mad he wasn't gonna get his harem and rape builds uhhhh character
The Phantom Thieves should've been fricking murdered
Japanese K.N.D. is sure is bad.
I LOVE MY THERAPIST HUSBAND FROM PERSONA 5 ROYAL SO MUCH AND HE LOVES ME TOO!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
is there a reason why he looks like the mc is this just atlus being lazy?
>Just let some guy do whatever he wants with godlike powers
>Surely he won't start to lose it when he eventually gets bored and starts going off the rails
>dude who was just using his persona for it dies, gets killed or incapacitated
>the entire system collapses in on itself
>everyone stuck in whatever mess comes of it
These threads only prove that Yaldy was right about humanity.
>persona 5
JOKER, NO, WAIT UNTIL HE'S SIXTEEN IR WHATEVER AGE OF CONSENT IS IN JAPAN
>WHATEVER AGE OF CONSENT IS IN JAPAN
That'd be 13
That's what the national law says, but no prefecture has it lower than 15.
gay
Cute boywife, but Amada is still my favorite
What where they thinking?
I expected a partymember to object changing someones heart over someting that trivial.
The only rule the Phantom Thieves have is that the decision to change the heart must be unanimous.
I expected for a member of the party to object to taking up the quest, so it wouldn't be unanimous, now would it???
Had he made me able to romance Sae I would've let him win.
>"I DONT ACCEPT YOUR REALITY MARUKI, I REFUSE TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE IM NOT A SERIAL KILLER WHO MURDERED FUTABA'S MOTHER AND HARU'S FATHER"
>"HEY JOKER REMEMBER WHEN YOU ARRIVED IN TOKYO AND YOU WERE IN A JAM BECAUSE A TRAIN HAD CRASHED, KILLING MOST PASSENGERS? YEAH THAT WAS ME, I KILLED THEM ALL, AND MARUKI IS TRYING TO DENY ME THOSE KILLS, LET'S GO AND STOP HIM"
if he wants to defy the tyrant and die as the result, thats fine by me
P5R scenes with Akechi as the nav / going full on is the best voice acting in the series. Just gotta love the dude sneering and screaming like a cartoon.
>futaba returns as nav
>immediate sense of disappointment
Did Akechi kill Futaba's mother? I thought he obtained his Persona not too long before Joker.
Yes, she died from a mental shutdown, and the conversation where Akechi and Shido talk about how evil they are has Akechi mention that Wakaba didn’t have to die if she was compliant. Akechi is the only other person with the ability to enter the metaverse at that point.
MARUKI WANTS US TO LIVE IN A BORING, DEAD UNIVERSE WHERE NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. BUT I REFUSE! WE NEED SKULLS! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! MURDER WILL PREVAIL! WE MUST KILL, JOKER! KILL AND MURDER AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
funny how this thread survives death for hours
atlus SHILLS working overtime on this one
Did Akechi's confidant have any sort of hint that he's actually a raging psychopath?
mostly its just tips about him being the culprit, but at rank 8 he pretty much goes mask off when raging about his attachment to joker
Maruki-apologist threads confirm my beliefs that lawgays are mentally ill.
Chaosgays aren't much better though
>my beliefs
You don't have any, you fence-sitting neutralgay.
I just started this game the other day. Are you telling me they seriously did an Aizen exactly bit by bit?
No
Aizen wasn't a simp
The issue here is that Maruki is coming from an absolutist point of view because otherwise the PT would have zero grounds to stand on in opposing him
Had he offered the service to those who wanted it and those who wanted it only, what the frick would they do?
God, Lotus Eater Machine shit pisses me off in media
hot take:shiho is a fricking bawd!
Running from your problems is wrong. Thats why maruki is the issue
yes gaijin, you finally starting to get the brilliance of P5R writing
when a bunch of naive moronic teenagers brainwash people it's good
when a smart responsible adult tries it it's bad
Is it really running if you can rewrite reality
>adults bad
>teens and kids good
>kids good
Yes
this but unironically
frick jaded, greedy, rotten adults
You never rebelled against your parents?
Persona is made for Japanese teens. It's supposed to appeal to teenagers, of course the stories are going to revolve around teenagers being morally correct.
>You never rebelled against your parents?
No. My parents made it very clear at a young age that they had no obligation to care for me and would dispose of me (either give me away to CPS or straight up kill me) if I ever disobeyed them.
I can't relate to rebellious teens at all, especially teens that don't ever get their comeuppance. Why don't their parents put them in their place?
>I can't relate to rebellious teens at all
Then why are you playing a game about rebellious teens?
>No. My parents made it very clear at a young age that they had no obligation to care for me and would dispose of me (either give me away to CPS or straight up kill me) if I ever disobeyed them.
both are against the law and they would go to jail your parents did amazing job for you. I hope you dropped those barbarians and will never help them when they will be elderly and shitting themselves.
I'm pretty sure they were (mostly) empty threats, but when you're 5 and your father drives erratically just to terrify you after complaining you're tired or your mother tells you a transfer station (a garbage dump) is a place where parents can drop off their unwanted children and you'll be locked in a cage the rest of your life, you believe it and it sticks with you.
My siblings didn't get the same treatment and they were right awful kids. I got the nickname "angel child" by them because I never disobeyed our parents, but they didn't know its because they scared me so much it burned obedience into my subconscious.
I get along well with my parents today.
These threads show perfectly well how badly adjusted adults have no idea how the themes of the games work.
>P4 Team "You need to be your true self."
>Adachi "Okay."
>P4 team "NOOOOOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT THAT'S NOT RIGHT YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR TRUE SELF BUT ONLY IF WE APPROVE IT!!!!*
I can only imagine how fricked in the head some of the people who browse this website are when every persona thread we get people that interpret
>Be yourself
as
>I would like to be a psychopathic killer / rapist / thief with zero consequences
after a while it stops seeming like satire
Maybe because there's literally a moment during his dungeon where Adachi uses this exact argument and the IT have no counter to it?
It just highlights how hypocritical their morals are when they literally can't explain to someone why killing is wrong by their world views.
You missed the point. The idea of the shadows is not to say that you have flaws, but to accept that you are flawed and you can change.
The shadows represent the person's worst thoughts about themselves that are only empowered by the rumours of the people, but they aren't accurate and they still need their friends to develop and become better people.
Adachi was just a whiny butthole who gave up on life and shut everyone away despite people trying to bond with him.
I didn't miss shit, there's literally a part where Adachi pulls a "We're not so different" by saying they're seeking the truth only because that's what gets them excited in life, and he does whatever the frick he wants because that's his thing that gets him off.
Rise is the only one who responds and she just says "Well, he's right, but..."
They seek the truth because they almost got murdered. Thanks to Adachi's actions.
He's literally trying to pretend he was doing something perfectly justifiable when he's full of shit. When the confrontation happens none of the investigation team give him even one concession.
They just say he was wrong, not why he was wrong.
Most of their arguments are about society, and don't really go into him killing people, Yu also didn't give half a shit either, because he still considers Adachi a friend after everything was said and done, like Joker and Akechi.
He literally says that the tv world did the murders not him, that society and his life sucks so he's justified in killing people and that everyone wants to become shadows anyway and the team call him out into how stupid those arguments are. He threw them in knowing they'd likely die, being sent to a small town is no reason to start murdering people, and you wanting to not care doesn't mean everyone thinks like that, specially since the team does not want to see the fog consume Inaba.
People pretend that Adachi presented some flawless logic and arguments but in truth he was just shifting blame and pretending he could do whatever he wanted.
"Be yourself as long as it's socially convenient" is always a pretty solid message to give people. No-one actually wants people to be themselves if it's inconvenient.
This. Whenever you were told as a kid to "bee yourself!" they really meant embody leftist values and pretend to be part of "the resistance" while being a good little worker bee.
The kids who sperged out, dropped out, or turned to the alt-right have no right to "bee themselves"
She overcame her problems just fine in her confidant
We dont need Maruki
for frick sake persona 5 sucks can we just talk about smt kino instead of having these shitty threads either waifu dumps or defending bad writing
Yakumo is the best neutral representative as he's genuinely one of the few that actually believes in the strength of humanity to spite Demons and Angels on our own STR.
The fact the incredibly logical secret ending was his idea proves that he's the only SMT alignment rep to not have a terminal case of moronation.
>smt
doesnt that game have a troony protagonist?
>long haired male = troony
stop forcing this meme
m8 the your protag has hair and makeup that only girls use, shut the frick up
smt characters have always had the funny black lipstick in art
he just has long hair and eyelashes
i have those but i dont want to be a troon
stop forcing this meme, you fruit
so IT IS a troony game right if you're saying that?
also you dont have to be a troony to like troony games, theres a reason Ganker loves fallout new vegas
long eyelashes and hair does not = troony
Does this look like a troony to you?
already played smt 5 on switch
hope you guys are happy with your pc port so you can finally play the game and not watch a guy play it start to finish
that does not count because the guy is still clearly looking like an actual guy, compare him side by side to that troony SMTV protag and its night and day
ermm i dont see any lipstick and makeup...
i see long hair and eyelashes..
>that fricking hair and eyeliner
its actually over, SMTV is a troony game
>long hair and eyelashes = troony!!! troony troony troony troony!!
>heres another smt protagonist with long hair and eyelashes
>see that doesn't count because [headcanon]
>heres the same archetype on a new protagonist
>troony troony
Your mind has been warped by Ganker and /misc/ or you just don't like SMT V. Get a life homosexual. Your repetition proves you have been mind broken and cannot come up with an argument.
im sorry anon...but men dont have that kind of hair without being a troony
why dont you accept SMTV for what it really is instead of denying it over and over again?
>but men dont have that kind of hair
BECAUSE IT'S A VIDEO GAME
Do not reply to me again, you are insignificant to me now with your moronic, almost bait like takes.
that guy also doesnt look like he's a woman, he's not even wearing eyeliner, while your troony protagonist does and his hairstyle and face is clearly going for it
so why do you like games with troon MC's on it?
>[HEADCANON]
There exists twinks and then there's troons
At minimum he's a twink, not a fricking troony as you keep insisting.
Now take your meds, go leave, and stop replying to me.
>headcanon
you can see everything i am talking about by just looking at your MC
Done.
the funniest thing about you posting this troon is he's not that different from the SMTV protagonist physically speaking
>girl hair
>makeup
only thing missing is the MC's suit but come on man
For whatever reason I find the bodysuit more feminine than the hair.
>Does this look like a troony to you?
Yes, he's a homosexual.
>i have those but i dont want to be a troon
It's too late, the process has already begun.
go whine to atlas so they would finally port smt v to pc
the fact that we are still discussing his views shows that atlus can actually write compelling antagonists, so why is every other villain in the base game so fricking boring and shallow?(except kamoshida he's actually fun to hate)
It would be harder to justify the PT's activities and thus require more work narratively speaking if the majority of the villains weren't just selfish dicks.
pretty sure they flattened them on purpose because the game was already too long
they ended up doing info dump after the twist, so they were probably pretty desperate to cut time
there is bunch of cut content about palace rulers backgrounds and unfinished ideas
i think they initially wanted to cover palace rulers trauma like they did in strikers
They never disagreed on the morality of changing people's hearts, they disagreed with the ends Maruki was trying to achieve by changing hearts. If he was changing hearts for what the PTs considered a good reason they would have no argument.
The arcade cheater was a meme, yeah, but the part that got me was the mementos target that was a hitman.
He was raised from birth to do nothing but kill people and feel nothing, basically more of a tool than a real person, so the mindwipe pretty much changed his entire self, and life history.
There's no other way to look at it than brainwashing, there was no "REMOVE THE DISTORTED DESIRES" here, you literally rewrote a man's brain from the ground up to be an actual person.
>basically more of a tool than a real person
You could use that exact argument as to why a change of heart is justifiable, since no real personhood is being lost.
>since no real personhood is being lost
In this one case, yeah.
But it's also kinda freaky even in this case, where did the new "self" even come from? is he real, or just a brainwashed doll that thinks his actions are his own like YHVH does in SMT?.
The hobo hated his past life as a killer and wanted to forget. He’s already stuck at the bottom of society, why not let him at least forget about the past actions he had to take?
I haven't played the game in a long time, but if that's the case than it's even more bullshit
If you killed people, you killed people, there's no real justification for it, even if you were being manipulated all your life.
Sounds like Akechi
yeah but akechi is prime fujobait so he has double standards
Akechi enjoyed killing people and rose up in society because of it, the hobo didn’t and is at the lowest point in his life.