ok i've played a few hours of each game besides 76 and all the fallout games are bad and i dont understand how they got popular. 1 and 2 are just bad and clunky. idk what they were going for but whatever it is is not it. 3 and new vegas are both bad and both similar games. you see some random guy far out and think its someone you can talk to but its a superdemon with a minigun or some raider that shoots at you in the open field. 4 is way better gunplay wise but it still has the same faults. i just killed a deathclaw in the armor thing and it is the most unsatisfying thing ever, you just aim your minigun and shoot. like there is no meat to the gameplay.
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people play fallout for the gameplay?
i mean you kinda have to when you are exploring the world and random lizards run at you and guys come shooting at you just because you are 50 feet away.
except in actual shooting games its fun because its quick or there is actual gameplay and movement and the ai actually does something. in fallout all you do is have to see them first and hope they dont get to you fast enough before they die
>there is actual gameplay
What is gameplay?
>you just aim your minigun and shoot
yeah shooty games be like that
In fallout games enemies just run in a straight line at you, and all you do is run backwards and shoot. the gameplay is dogshit.
>you just aim your minigun and shoot
>yeah shooty games be like that
You mean "fun?"
The all suck for different reasons.
At least the 3D ones are playable. FO1 was dogshit with abysmal combat.
>he played fallout 1 un-modded or un-patched
>just install mods and it'll be good bro
no, if the core, raw game is shit then the game is shit
I'm not going to waste my time doing the devs' work and patch the game
I'd rather move on to a game that just werks
Software is software, code is malleable. Only consolegaygogs seethe at the idea of modding.
I'm playing it unmodded. I don't know if I'm playing it unpatched. Steam release. What exactly am I missing out on? It's fun. I'm about 80% of the way through the game and the only thing I've found moronic is that you can softlock yourself by going to the Gun Runners because trying to leave the map spawns you directly on top of a deathclaw.
The 1.1 patch removed the second (invisible) time limit after delivering the water chip
The deathclaws are not a softblock, you can just run away in combat mode or sneak past them (you have to activate Sneak in the skilldex)
What mod are you supposed to use? I'm in for a replay soon, been 10 years
Fixt or Et Tu, which is basically Fixt on the FO2 engine, though Fixt itself has more modularity on what mods and changes you want.
>1 and 2 are just bad and clunky
thats what old games tend to do when you look at them from a zoomer perspective lil bro
>when you look at them from a zoomer perspective
You are a worthless moron. Lots of games that still hold up.
no game "holds up". playing anything older than 10 years always feels horrible.
Not true. I've recently played Dishonored (the first one) and the gameplay was real smooth, even though it's 12 years old by now.
The OG Deus Ex always clunky gameplay (especially the guns and melee feels like shit even compared to other FPS at the time) but all that shit was ignored because of its innovations in level design and RPG mechanics.
games <2000s that hold up
sf2, sonic1-3, super mario 64, starcraft, super mario world, chrono trigger, ff7/6, loz:alttp, oot, dkc2, megamans, unreal tournament, pokemon , civ 2, earthbound, lemmings, etc. the list goes on
FF6 and FF7 don't hold up, jarpigs are dogshit
Starcraft 1 definitely doesn't hold up. Only complete nostalgiagays would ever go back to SC1 after playing SC2 and Warcraft 3.
You play Fallout 1 because of its dark aesthetics, its profound violence, and its post apocaliptic world
You play fallout 2 only because you liked fallout 1 and want to see more of its world and where its heading. If you enjoy "frick frickity frick" humor, then it got you covered as well as an extra.
>I didnt try modding them
These games have compatibility issues/bugs, so they require modding. Just say you are too lazy to mod them, and I will give you an easier time. Its a better excuse.
Trying to act superior for not modding them, makes you sound like an uppity moron that hasnt been bullied enough in school.
Broodwar definitely holds up. Im saying this as a guy who played SC2 first and tried Broodwar when it got remastered. Its just better than SC2. This "zoomer brainrot" thread is shit.
>Im saying this as a guy who played SC2 first and tried Broodwar when it got remastered. Its just better than SC2.
From the story I get it, but the gameplay in SC2 is basically Starcraft 1 with improvements and more interesting missions in the campaign. What exactly is better in Broodwar gameplay in itself?
the way the unit health, damage and the way the units spread out and move is superior to sc2's clump up deathballs
>What exactly is better in Broodwar gameplay in itself?
>No deathballing
>Better visual clarity. Thanks to its more simplistic graphics, you can instantly spot your units in the game.
>Less convoluted, more straightforward. Sc2 has all these units, but people use only half of them for their strategies. Not truly blizzard's fault, but they have made a bloated game.
SC2 is more polished compared to broodwar and features more QoL features, that I will give it to it, but thats all about it. SC2 has an inferior story, an inferior artstyle, and also the music race themes are weak compared to broodward's iconic race themes.
>no game "holds up". playing anything older than 10 years always feels horrible.
I'd completely agree if only you had said the exact opposite
I was making fun of him, not agreeing with him, you mindless gorm holy shit.
I know you moronic zoomer.
You sound like you might be a homosexual.
First 2 games were not massive successes of any kind, especially the second one was considered a flop selling way less than the first one. The RPG genre in general was pretty weak in the gameplay department at that time, so Fallout got attention because it had serviceable gameplay (for its genre at that time) and had awesome atmosphere and story.
Like just to put in perspective, Fallout 2 and Half Life 1 were released in the same year. Fallout 2 according to the internet sold 130k copies or so, while Half Life 1 sold over 9 million. Fallout 1 was 600k or so, much better than the second but still way lower than the real popular tiles on PC like Diablo or Half Life and so on.
They've made a massive splash tho. In the early 00s in Russia I didn't know anyone who played Baldur's Gate or PlaneEscape, but I knew several people who played Fallout and recommended it to me. It's like a cult movie, like The Thing - it might flop on release, but persist through word of mouth.
>PlaneEscape
homie
Uh, sorry, I meant Planet Escape Tournament. The one with weird city, tattoos and guns with alt-fires.
>Planet Escape Tournament
Lol, It's Planescape Torment. That game you made up sounds like a UT99 mod.
Misspelling PS:T is a very, very old joke.
If that's the case then it flew over my head. I thought anon was just being russian and using some translation assistance.
I am Russian, yeah, I don't use Google translate. It really is an old joke, popular on Russian 2ch and I think RPGCodex uses it too.
Fallout was pretty big in Russia. Well, compared to other RPGs, anyway. It just resonates with us, you know? In Ukraine, too, judging by how Stalker is somewhat inspired by Fallout. Gauss Rifle and all, and it was supposed to have Bozar too. Now I wonder if there's a mod that adds Bozar to Stalker.
Interesting. I know little about Russian culture so I am curious about why F1 and F2 made such a splash outside of being Post-Apocalyptic I guess. With Bethesda shitting over Fallout it's also nice to at least get some experiences that actually carry the spirit of Fallout 1 and 2, I appreciate that Russia is outputting nice Fallout total conversion mods.
It was just a perfect storm, I guess. We were living in a post-apocalpyse for a while. Obviously a much tamer version. I wonder, how exotic is Fallout setting for American gamers? Obviously most of its target audience wasn't alive in the 50s, but you still watched some 50s movies, listened to its songs. For Russians, this stuff is way more alien, but it almost enhances the experience.
>I wonder, how exotic is Fallout setting for American gamers?
We have little mini-apocalypses here ourselves. The rust belt in particular.
I meant in a more cultural sense, I guess. Like the songs used in the intro, you might've heard some of them in some radio marathon of old hits, but for many Russian kids FO2 intro was the first time they heard Louis Armstrong, for example.
'Oldies' radio programs as they called them are rare today. There was a wave of 50s nostalgia in the 90s, a gen-x thing I guess, though they never directly experienced it. Americans are sort of familiar with the period through osmosis. You find old midcentury crap at every thrift store. Vinyl from the 50s is dirt cheap. We do have tacky diners like Johnny Rockets that sell the vibe.
So for you it still feels different, but obviously not as different as for somebody who grew up in post-Soviet Bloc.
Yeah, it's weird but not alien. Like I've been listening to Nautilus Pompilius lately, a Russian band. I have no context for it whatsoever. Is it cool, is it hokey? I don't know.
Shit, I've been listening to them a lot in the 00s. Had cassettes and all.
Right, generational. I feel like there's more "connection between generations in Russia since we more often and longer live with our parents, plus TV, if you ever turn it off, is full of old popular music since it's run by boomers and for boomers.
For us it's just a generational thing. I already knew Louis Armstrong and recognized some of the themes (the educational cartoon style, duck and cover drills, general Americana visuals, etc.) but had to look up who the Ink Spots were. If my parents played video games they probably would've been familiar with all of it.
It's exotic in some sense. From in the states where I'm from you won't find many desolate buildings like in the Fallout world. In other ways it's almost comforting. Growing up in California it's almost kind of surreal seeing what the locations in the game are like, in a fun way. People say San Fransico is too out of place for Fallout 2 but having been there on occasions it really is that kind of weird place, though more exaggerated in the games. Other cultural points of the games have some influence from cultures here, The tribals in the game are pretty on the nose of being native american allegories. As for the 50s type of culture it is a bit out of my realm but I'm a young zoomer, like the other anon brought up though there still is osmosis from that time period from old media that still gets circulated or 50s theme'd resturants and burger joints. You get an idea of what the decade was like from your grandparents.
>ok i've played a few hours of each game besides 76 and all the fallout games are bad and i dont understand how they got popular.
Jesus dude You're a giant homosexual and you probably play some gay shit games.
Why is your post all in Lower case? I sincerely cannot tell if this is bait, and it looks too dumb to be AI...
That's easy. Fallout was a sales dud but a critical darling.
It sucked, but because of probably some political thing critics pushed it and hard.
I love these threads where people judge 30+ year old vidya with modern vidya standards as if they're the only ones that can figure this shit out and they have to let us all know about it. Blog on, Op. Blog on.
>1 and 2 are just bad and clunky.
Reminder to take the Augustus Courier/Pax Legio pill
>but whatever it is is not it.
you talk like a fricking homosexual, wigger
>Diablo, released in 1996
>amazing, action-oriented RPG
>extremely popular on release and after its first year in the market
>flawlessly ported to PS1
>Shartout, released in 1997
>aids-based combat, slow as frick RPG
>no one gave a frick except nerds and homos
>died on MS-DOS, the shitties "OS" in existence
PCbugmen have no taste, we knew that already.
fr these games are wack
You only think 1 and 2 are "clunky" because you don't know how to play it, for real
I played 2 for the first time years ago and it was a mess, the oldschool style of it was very nice and all, but the gameplay was a little weird for me. I watched a youtube gameplay for couple hours and then I understood how to play it, how to navigate the UI and such
It's just an old UI, that we are not used to anymore, but it is functional and worth to learn, because 1 and 2 are great games
Why does Fallouts UI put people off? You literally point and click. Have these people never used a computer? On top of that there's a helpful F1 screen that give you hotkeys making playing even easier. I just don't understand how people are this putoff by the games.
The "scrolling list" type of inventory was awful, especially for trading. I say that as a fan of both Fallout 1 and Gothic 1, which also had similar type of interface.
Yeah I guess it's clunky in some manner. but ironically F3/NV have a similar type of scrolling inventory, it just would be catagorized. What it feels like though is that other people can't even navagate the inventory. Like they don't understand how to even move. And that's what I don't understand. It's one thing to say that it's rough in spots but it's not unplayable.
>ok i've played a few hours of each game
nice attention span bro. I'm sure you have a lot of valuable insight that I didn't read
>get hit 3 times in a row by a deathclaw
>shrug it off because power armor is actually really good in FO1
replayed FO1 for the first time in years with the Et Tu mod and it was a blast. I can't get into FO2 the same way and I feel like replaying 1 all over again.
>I can't get into FO2 the same way
What part of F2 are you stuggling with? Sadly that games beginning is kind of a slog. I usually recommend that unless you're dying for XP to just skip Klamath and move on to another town. The game really didn't need the Temple as Arroyo and Klamath are already enough of a tutorial town.
Yeah the beginning. I went with small guns and found a pistol in Klamath but even that feels useless against geckos. Compared to FO1 where you can get a sawed off shotgun before even reaching Vault 15 and easily one shot radscorpions.
If you feel like it, maybe jump town for another weapon, also don't feel bad about turning the game to easy as F2s normal is F1s hard. Also unless your character is an uncharismatic butthole I highly recommend to get Sulik in Klamath. That dude will carry your early game.
>F2s normal is F1s hard
That explains some things. I just picked up Sulik so we'll see if he can beat up some geckos for me so I can level up.
Good luck. F2 can be rough around the edges and who knows if you'll like it more than 1 but it's still a game worth (re)playing.
Klamath is kind of shit for gear upgrades. You might want to go to the Den first to at least get a SMG or something if you've got the money for it.
Better make the navarro trip this game has a crappy progression in gear
Shit taste detected. Navarro should've been a hidden location, the APA invalidates basically every other armor in the game and making it easy to get with meta knowledge right out of Arroyo was a bad decision.
Another fricking tourist.
1 is pretty overrated by this board. impressive for its time and for its cool setting/world building but the gameplay is ass and the side content is pretty limited. fallout 2 has the same shitty gameplay but there is way more side content. purists shit on 2 for being less "streamlined" and wackier. the bethesda games are so different that its moronic to even compare them to the first two
tbh I actually like the combat of both Fallout games. 2 is even better in this regard I.E. unarmed has a kick and punch option that you can upgrade. It's only a problem if you're intentionally skipping a combat build, in which case you got to speech your way past stuff.
I don't like how zoomers and youtubers have made this myth about OG fallout being an unaccesible hardcore game when the first one is very generous with weapons and stimpaks and how the quests naturally sets you towards necropolis for the water chip. Yes it is flawed in the sense that Agility is indispensable while Charisma is practically useless and the UI can be obtuse on things like dropping timed explosives, but in general it's a very straighforward game with enjoyable and easy combat.
- Time limits in open world RPGs are unacceptable, the devs themselves know it because they extended the time limit in a subsequent patch and then practically removed it in Fallout 2 (still has a timelimit because of engine limitation, but it's like a decade or so).
- Random encounters are terrible design that was removed completely from western RPGs (and even a lot of modern JRPGs don't have it anymore)
- Companions are shit
- Can easily gimp your character with wrong choices (but it's not as bad as FO2 like you said, FO1 is more forgiving)
- Some parts of the quests have puzzly type of design choices, like it's suddenly an adventure game instead of an RPG (best example is with using Rad X before going into the Glow and you don't need it pretty much anywhere else, or the rope required for descending in vault 15).
>The time limit in every modern release of the is so long its essentially meaningless.
>Random encounters
>Yes, companions are fairly useless.
>Encounters should have been somewhat visible on the overworld so you can navigate around them but other than that I don't mind them. I think they're essential for JRPG dungeons but not essential for the overworld.
>Oh no! Not everything holds my hand!! SAVE ME YOUTUBERS!!!
>How is this a fricking bad thing? Yeah you have to use a rope for Vault 15 and Rad X before the Glow. It's called preparation, why the frick is this a bad thing???
Honestly, you zoomers are so pathetic.
I'm not a zoomer, I'm probably twice your age boy. Just giving you examples of what people would feel compelled to complain and it makes sense. Also, learn how to use the quotes properly.
> The time limit in every modern release of the is so long its essentially meaningless.
You can still theoretically frick it up with caravans and pointless exploration on world map. It doesn't matter anyway how much time you have, the point is not the time limit in itself hurting anyone as much as the idea of a time limit puts newbies on edge and unwilling to try exploring everything and doing quests in their respective hubs properly.
> Oh no! Not everything holds my hand!! SAVE ME YOUTUBERS!!!
Shitty RPGs with unbalanced attributes/skills are the main reason crpgs were dead for like 15 years and we had to play slop like Oblivion and Mass Effect instead. A game with dump stats and useless skills will always suck and in fact lead to even more handholding, as zoomer homosexuals will prefer to look up a guide on the Internet or just watch a playtrough on youtube rather than actually experiment with character building.
Fallout 2 was especially bad at this, because even some of the pre-made characters had a tough time with the radscorpions in the temple lmao
> >How is this a fricking bad thing? Yeah you have to use a rope for Vault 15 and Rad X before the Glow. It's called preparation, why the frick is this a bad thing???
Because it's not part of regular gameplay loop/mechanics and it's shitty adventure games slop logic (another genre that died in the 2000s, rightfully so that time). 99% of the game has nothing to do with being prepared with ropes, asking you to have rope for 2 specific circumstances is stupid.
You're defending these types of things because you've played the games already and they feel like second nature to you. But any zoomer who wants to give Fallout 1 a try will encounter this type of shit on first playthrough.
>asking you to have rope for 2 specific circumstances is stupid
I think it's completely fine but I also think there could've been more hints on that.
I mean it is fine in general, nothing in Fallout 1 is game-breaking for me. But it's just the type of annoyance I imagine a younger person would really dislike from his games.
The big thing about Fallout being hard to approach is that it was made back when manuals were a thing and its manual explains a lot of stuff that the game does not.
You could even view manuals back then as a copy protection of sorts. If you have the box, you have the manual, and if your friend copied you the game, well, who cares if you experience a setback? You're not a paying customer.
What fun would an adventure be without moon logic MacGyver shit.
Not my problem.
>Time limits in open world RPGs are unacceptable
Says who? You? Get outta here moron. Time limited quests can be immersive when done right, because its unrealistic to take your sweet time for a quest that involves delivering an organ to a dying patient in the game, for example.
Fallout 1 time limit is VERY generous and once you deal with it, then you are free to explore to your hearts extent.
I think that time limit is one of the things that make Fallout 1 stand out from the majority of rpgs. Yes, the time limit was more unforgiving in the 1.0 version, but in the final version is perfect so there is no excuse anymore.
>Random encounters are terrible design that was removed completely from western RPGs
I agree with you on that, even though in FO1+2 you get the choice to avoid them with the Outdoorsman skill.
>Companions are shit
You are shit because you refuse to experiment with them
>Can easily gimp your character with wrong choices
FO2 is more unforgiving, but you can always start a new game, since your bad choices will be visible in the first 2hours. Also, if you endure the early game, your character becomes good anyways in the end
>Some parts of the quests have puzzly type of design choices
These puzzles usually give clear clues, so its not hard to figure them out. If you are impatient enough to spend an extra 10mins on it, just use the internet. You already use it in souls games, so there is no shame about it anymore.
If there is a complain to be made, that is the slight pixel hunt FO1+2 have. Thankfully you can highlight things but you can miss a locker somewhere
>Companions are shit
>Says who? You? Get outta here moron.
The question was about why zoomers and youtubers think the early Fallout games were not accessible. The time limit is one of the more common answers.
Anyway, it doesn't matter what YOU think, it's obvious that nobody liked it because the vast majority of games created after it never implemented this main quest time limit, including the direct sequel to Fallout 1. Plenty of RPGs have been made with even more plot urgency than some "water chip" and they didn't do it, except occasionally for some side content.
> Fallout 1 time limit is VERY generous and once you deal with it, then you are free to explore to your hearts extent.
There's a second secret time limit with the super mutants. Generosity of the time limit is irrelevant, like the other poster you can't think outside of your own perspective. A new player of FO1 has no idea how "generous" this time limit is, they don't know they'll get the water chip after going through half of the game instead of at the very end. What this means is that average zoomer homosexual will either look up on the Internet and spoil themselves where the water chip is or just skip past most of the junktown/hub quests.
> You are shit because you refuse to experiment with them
Their AI is shit and you can't use them properly in turn based combat. Turn based without controlling your party is like platformer without ability to jump.
> These puzzles usually give clear clues, so its not hard to figure them out. If you are impatient enough to spend an extra 10mins on it, just use the internet. You already use it in souls games, so there is no shame about it anymore.
That's the point. People will just use the Internet to look up things -> they read the plot on wikis or watch recap video on youtube -> now they have more time for Fallout 4 and consider the older games inaccessible -> Nobody will make a Fallout cRPG ever again. You're describing how slop ended up getting made.
>There's a second secret time limit with the super mutants
You'll never hit it.
>A new player of FO1 has no idea how "generous" this time limit is
Yeah, because it will never be seen in normal play.
>Yeah, because it will never be seen in normal play.
Or because he bumrushes to Necropolis because he saw on the Internet that's where the waterchip is and then quits when he gets fricked up by supermutants.
>The time limit is one of the more common answers
When Japan does time limt(persona games, Majora's Mask)= LE GOOD
When America does time limit(Fallout 1,Daggerfall)= LE BAD
> new player of FO1 has no idea how "generous" this time limit is
Fallout's time limit IS generous. It just keeps you focused on that goal and this is why saving your vault feels very rewarding. You can see how fast the day countdown goes. You have a visual estimation.
>average zoomer homosexual will either look up on the Internet and spoil themselves where the water chip is
They keep doing it with Dark Souls games since DS1. If they want to be spoiled, they will do this on their own accord.
>AI is shit and you can't use them properly in turn based combat
You can set their behaviour before hand and there's a mod that allows you to give them commands while in combat
>1 and 2 are just bad and clunky.
>can make your character 8 years old in fo1.
what the frick...
That's either a mod or a glitch. F1 and F2s default is Minimum: 16 Maximum: 35
I'm using the fixt mod. That's supposed to not add anything that's not already supposed to be in the game tho. Guess they lied.
Did you select purist only? Even then there might be background engine changes that got tweaked with even if you selected purist only install. Having played both Fixt and the Original game there's not much that got fricked with, even ignoring the purist modes.
>Did you select purist only?
yeah I did.
Well if you're that put off by it you could just play the "vanilla" game that came with Steam and GOG (the Steam/GOG versions aren't vanilla as they added the high res patch and sfall which also added things like Fog of War as optional gameplay options, The original games are included but will be 640x480 only, start FALLOUTW.EXE vs FALLOUTWHR.EXE, if you want the original 1.1 experience.)
> goyslop as name
Fitting age for fitting humor
>it's bad cuz I said so
Nobody asked for your opinion, homosexual.
>superdemon
There is two(three if you count the come fly with me quest) places in New Vegas with super mutants and one is a peaceful settlement in the mountains and the other is black mountain which has both a radio broadcast telling you "IF YOU COME HERE WE WILL KILL YOU!" and a guy out front named Marcus which tells you "don't go up the mountain, they will kill you". If you die to super mutants its 100 percent your fault.
There's also Mean Sonuvabich, he's a pretty sweet lad tho
They're roleplaying games semi-based on GURPS. It's hard for kids to understand maybe, because tabletop gaming has sucked, and fantasy/sci-fi fiction has sucked, for like 25 years. But the idea was to facilitate interesting roleplay in a setting with novel world building and predicaments, etc. The gameplay always takes a back seat in RGPs because there are other things the devs have to focus on. Even BG3 which was a masterpiece of production quality plays clunky because, again, it's based on a tabletop system.
Yes fallout 4 is the best one everyone knows this but it’s not cool to like newer games
stick to fortnite zoomer, stop trying to force yourself to like things.
you have never played the fallout games, you also are not white.
thanks for the high quality thread
>A thread that started with such dogshit actually being good by the end
Maybe there's some hope for Ganker after all