>far too easy
This was my biggest complaint by far.
But the bit that fricking boggles me is the number of people who seem to sincerely believe that the dandori battles were difficult.
Like... the AI is basically pants-on-head moronic and even the most difficult one can be one-shot with no strategy going in.
But even outside of those: Bosses were universally trivial; in particular, Man At Legs and Empress Bulblax were both significantly easier than previous iterations, to the point that I feel like a generation of younger players won't get to experience the sense of dread or creepy discomfort that they provided us.
>Dog is overpowered and ultimately trivialises most content. >2 had longer and more thematically interesting caves, if you enjoyed that sort of thing. >1 was a more coherent game and the time challenge felt more meaningful. >All the bosses felt so weak. Just about everything could be killed in one "down" phase, a couple took 2. None were a threat. >Particularly exemplary of the above, with a handful of exceptions (generally crushing) it seems most enemies had a very low "max pikmin killed per attack" value. Like bulblaxes licking your whole squad and getting... 8 pikmin. >Challenges and battles were way too easy. With a couple of exceptions in the post-game secret dungeon, almost every single one could be completed with one strategy:
1. Raise, pluck or find pikmin first.
2. bum-rush everything
3. press the "idle pikmin come here" button every minute or two. >Pikmin 1 and 2 had this "Superficially childish, but actually a bit grim" design, from aesthetics to music to plot. Pikmin 3 and 4 both had "Superficially childish, but actually just childish". >Plot was shallow >Retcons 1 and 2.
Overall, it felt like a straight upgrade from 3.
But that means it left a lot behind that 1 and 2 had that 3 didn't do right.
it's still good, but it's a 6-7/10
it has everything good going for it, actually. especially the entire game of pikmin 1 retold after you save olimar, i still prefer the original, but so far this was a really nice surprise
>2 had longer and more thematically interesting caves, if you enjoyed that sort of thing.
I missed this the most.
The bite sized challenges you get with the caves in 4 were great, don't get me wrong. ...But man, those lengthy gauntlets in Pikmin 2 truly made the game feel like a real adventure.
>2 had longer and more thematically interesting caves, if you enjoyed that sort of thing.
2's caves are not more thematically interesting. In fact, most of them refuse to hold to a single theme. The only caves I can think of that have a strong theme are the shower room, subterranean complex, and the submerged castle. Whereas each cave in 4 had an identity. >Dog is overpowered and ultimately trivialises most content.
I am tired of this. What you mean is that the dog trivializes most COMBAT not content. Pikmin is more than just combat. And recall that if you're using the dog for combat you're not using him for collecting things. I agree that using the dog for combat make the caves much faster but this isn't really the case aboveground. You need to be more thoughtful there with your dog usage.
>Each cave in 4 had an identity
All the first area's caves blend together and so do half the second area's. Most caves in 2 DID have a coherent theme and I can tell you them. >Bulblax Kingdom: a kingdom of bulborbs and bulblaxes >Snagret Hole: a hole full of snagrets, even has that cool birdhouse set piece >Frontier Cavern: Christmas >Subterranean Complex: Lots of explosives >Citadel of Spiders: Full of dweevils and other insect enemies >Glutton's Kitchen: Breadbugs, they even just repeated it in 4 >Submerged Castle: Nuff said, they also ripped it for 4 >Shower Room: Remembered for its ceramic tiling theme and abundance of jellyfloats >Hole of Heroes: Boss rush gauntlet >Dream Den: It's the final cave
The only ones with no clear, strong theme are Emergence Cave, Hole of Beasts, White Flower Garden, and Cavern of Chaos. 3 of which are very early-game introductory caves.
>people actually want longer caves
This fricking baffles the shit out of me, if anything 4 made them more tolerable. Caves are legitimately an awful addition to the series, and they fundamentally go against the spirit of what the first game set out to do. I loved 1 because of the thriving organic environments and ecosystems, I didn’t play it to spend 20 hours in dimly lit fricking caves. If I wanted to play a shitty fricking dungeon crawler, I’d play smt for christ sakes
The thing is that everyone expects a big game. One of the major complaints with 3 was its short length. Do you know why it was short, like Pikmin 1? Because it didn't have caves.
Caves lengthen the game by providing vacuum spaces separate from the main areas. You can put anything in them and it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect anything in the overworld. Even with having the most overworld areas in the series, Pikmin 4 would still be a very short game if you completely removed all the caves. It doesn't matter how large you make the overworld areas, there will never be enough space to fit all the enemies and bosses and treasures in them, and you'll just create new problems by making areas too large.
>Pikmin is supposed to be THIS and THIS only!
Pikmin has always been a flexible series and it can be whatever it wants. Just look at the series and see how well its managed at trying out different things in each entry.
have a nice day.
didn't get to it yet but i beat 1, am 60% of the way through 2 and just got 3deluxe running on yuzu yesterday
whats the state of emulation for 4? playable?
Yep.
Pikmin 1 and 2 were essentially (separate) thematic standalones.
Pikmin 4 was a sequel to pikmin 3 that took some influences from pikmin 2.
Can someone explain the love for pikmin 1 on this board to me? I'm
didn't get to it yet but i beat 1, am 60% of the way through 2 and just got 3deluxe running on yuzu yesterday
whats the state of emulation for 4? playable?
so I literally just replayed both 1&2 and played both as a kid, I don't understand the love for 1 as to me 2 is a direct upgrade. Asking in good faith, not shitpost.
Some people cite the time challenge but honestly its meaningless unless you're a small child. You can easily complete the entire game in ~20 days with no rush so there's really no reason for the timer to exist.
I don't see much of a difference in mood/atmosphere. I don't mind the caves also which I know some people didn't like and that's a valid reason to favor 1 over 2 if you didn't.
I've yet to play 3 or 4 though, are they really that different?
2 has always sorta been considered the best game but recently 1 being held as the best seems like a more popular opinion. Its probbably the darkest game for whatever thats worth. Also people really think the lack of a day timer in 2 destroys the games challenge and makes it too easy. Though as you said the 30 days is extremely generous frick you dont even need all the pieces either. I recall my 5 year old brother beating it on his first try. He didnt 100% it but he beat it.
It's multifaceted.
1 had the benefit of being a novel idea. In hindsight and compared to 2, in particular, it wasn't terribly difficult. But compared with games at the time it was very much less forgiving than it originally appeared. >Fixed time limits; death as a frequent component of gameplay; lethal ambushing enemie;, major frick-ups not just possible, but easy if unprepared; etc.
It also encouraged planning and strategies that weren't really seen in mainstream games at the time: Since you could easily have 50+ pikmin die in a fight if you did a bad job, it was sometimes worth spending an entire day doing nothing but returning to an older area and growing pikmin for a day - at the tradeoff of added pressure to get all pieces.
It was something very original and, as you say, particularly challenging for children - which many of us were.
So it's remembered fondly for that reason.
But moving on from that and removing the rose-tinted glasses: it was a very cohesive game.
There was a true sense of progression and increasing challenge. There were few gimmicks, with mechanics and tools far more limited than subsequent titles. This meant the puzzles, when they presented, were tighter and combat more focused.
The series' highest points weren't in the original game, I'd argue areas like the original Man at Legs in 2 were significant high-points. But overall, it did the most things right.
A direct sequel to 1, rather than a side-grade like 2, is a game I'd really like to play.
Something that captures the superficial simplicity, but deeper complexity and strategy, especially with the element of a timed challenge.
I will explain why I did not like 2 and prefer 1. If you ask I can also say why I prefer 1 over all the other games as well. >Caves in 2 make up 80% of the gameplay and are mildly entertaining at best and tedious slogs at worst. As the only resource is your Pikmin, you're encouraged to play as safe and as cautious as possible, turning the game into an utter slog unless you want to waste time resetting. The random generation may make the game more replayable in a superficial sense, but you're always doing the same thing in the same caves, even if the layouts are slightly different; at worst, the random generation can even be a detriment, placing walls that have nothing behind them whatsoever. And when you're facing gauntlets of up to 20 subfloor long caves...it gets utterly tiring. >Difficulty. The game is bullshit, but you can offset the bullshit with Ultra-Bitter Sprays and Purple Pikmin. With a squad of 20~ Purples, all combat is utterly trivialized. Thus, the game's difficulty "ramps up" in a stupid way - by tossing tons of traps and falling objects in caves that will punish players with decent-sized squads, essentially encouraging the strategy of going around cave floors and triggering all of them, which is fricking boring. If combat is trivial, and the only difficulty can also be made trivial with a light jog around a cave subfloor, 2 is a game that punishes haste and encourages tedium.
>The elimination of the time limit (chiefly in the caves) kind of shatters the gameplay, as much of the game's design is based on being timesinks. Walls and things like Pikmin carrying objects are nothing but annoying waits rather than things to account for in your strategy. Combat in Pikmin was never the focus, and it's typically quite shallow; your goal was to collect ship parts, and combat only served to remove hazards in the way. The challenge came from managing/avoiding combat in your day's strategy, not from the complexity of the combat itself. Strip away the strategy and combat in Pikmin 2 devolves into you using Ultra-Spicy Sprays and mashing A. Sure, the time limit is trivially ignored in 1, but things like the day timer still exist, and you're ranked by your completion time; the need for efficiency is encouraged, not discarded entirely, and wrapping up a day quickly means you will have more time to grow Pikmin or make sure none are lost. >Lock-and-key level design. Rather than Pikmin being used for strategic purposes (do I spend bomb rocks on this enemy, or on a wall? I'm going to be fighting enemies to get a ship part in water, how many reds/blues should I bring?), there's a hazard, and you need to pick the right kind of Pikmin. Poison? Use Whites. Electricity? Use Yellows. Fire? Reds. A heavy object? Use Purples. Rather than Pikmin having their own strategic niche, as each did in 1 (Reds are for combat, Yellows are for utility, Blues are for navigating a terrain that can't be accessed by other Pikmin), much of 2's game design boils down to the elementary puzzle of fitting the square-shaped peg in the square-shaped hole. These aren't puzzles and have no depth, and this is unfortunately a problem that 2 carried onto its sequels.
>2's atmosphere is utterly distinct from 1. Treasures are impossibly pristine versus the few, heavily deteriorated human remains that are present in 1, confusing the atmosphere established in 1 in exchange for product placement (which is admittedly cute, but at odds with 1's presentation). Caves are utterly nonsensical and feel more like alternate dimensions rather than actual places (given that they pause time, maybe they are). The game's sound design can be grating with the Pikmin constantly going "HUH-HUH-HUH" and the Treasure Gauge repeatedly beeping. >2's locations just being remixes of 1 is nice, but totally new locations would've been much more appreciated (though it can be hard to tell at first). Valley of Repose is the sole exception, and it's probably the most interesting because of that. >The Doomsday Apparatus essentially flips the game on its head for completionists. Unless you want to grind multiple times in the Subterranean Complex, YOU CANNOT LOSE A SINGLE PURPLE PIKMIN ACROSS THE ENTIRETY OF THE GAME (and even THEN, you will still have to grind at least ONCE, as the game doesn't give you 100 Purples if you go through each cave once). This means if you don't want to waste time, you need to play absolutely perfectly with Purples in caves...essentially FORCING you to be EVEN MORE CAUTIOUS than you already are, slowing the game down even MORE.
>2's story essentially craps over 1 in exchange for a story without any payoff or emotional nuance. Sans the Piklopedia, Olimar is entirely mute during the course of the game (besides saying his name when you switch to him), which means 1's excellent character writing is now entirely gone, replaced with shallow, one-note cartoon characters, who spout nothing but crap in the end-of-day emails. Olimar comes back home to Hocotate, not to see his family he was worried about never seeing again, but right back to his employer (and don't say "he's a Japanese salaryman", he's a family man, first and foremost, 1 made that clear, and no, he didn't see his family off-screen, the bottlecap souvenir shows otherwise). His ship, the object that we built up over the course of 1, outfitted with family mementos, Olimar's pride and joy, is ripped right from his hands, and Olimar says absolutely NOTHING about it. The goal of the game is to pay off the debt; you achieve this, but now Louie is missing, and when you get all the treasures, you simply just...leave. There's no sort of emotional payoff in the story, the game just sort of ends. Louie himself is entirely mute sans his cooking notes, giving little reason to ever get invested in his character (and, surprise, it's his fault the story happened anyway...yay). 2 isn't alone in this fault; every other Pikmin game besides 1 has bad stories, which is a shame because 1 was an absolutely excellent, sobering man-versus-nature affair. >The squandering of a second captain. This isn't a flaw per se, but it's missed potential. With no "Go Here" function (besides the Napsack), having a second captain serves little to no purpose besides some mild multitasking. There are no clever puzzles with the mechanic with the exception of the Ranging Bloyster (but even then that can be beaten without switching). You can do things like pluck Pikmin at base or pluck Pikmin faster...but the mechanic sees little interesting gameplay use.
(4/?)
10 months ago
Anonymous
>The constant tutorialization and interruptions. For every single little mechanic in the game, the Hocotate Ship, a "character" with zero substance, will speak to you and explain the obvious, over and over, constantly. It's grating in the early game. Not only that, you have to sit through 40 MINUTES OF TREASURE ACQUIRY CUTSCENES, one for each of the 200 treasures, with their fake names being funny maybe about 5% of the time. There is a mod that fixes this, but 2 as it is utterly disrespect's the player's time. This isn't even to mention the things like the constant save prompts between cave subfloors or all the other animations and delays you need to wait or skip through. It's a game that constantly breaks its flow, whereas 1 was entirely seamless throughout the day.
Pikmin 2 has some good things. The tightened up Pikmin AI is great; no more getting distracted on grass, and tripping is less frequent, but you still need to manage/control your army (something that 3 and 4 essentially removed). The music is excellent and wonderfully experimental, especially in the caves. The game's visuals are a minor step up from 1, and that's much appreciated. The overworld sections, while often brief, and immediate sprints to the next cave, are mildly enjoyable. Whites and Purples are good additions (though they could've been more intelligently used), and Bulbmin are absolutely adorable. Submerged Castle is the only cave of any real worth (though the Giant Breadbug in Glutton's Kitchen is funny), actually having some real tension, provided you aren't fast enough. Challenge Mode is...okay. The Piklopedia is an absolutely meditative and enjoyable read, with transcendental music, but it's not part of the game. But that's about all I can say positive about the game. I think there's something here that a good sequel could've used, but as it is, I did not like the game.
(5/5)
10 months ago
Anonymous
Cool analysis, thanks for sharing.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Shit analysis didn't read
10 months ago
Anonymous
The analysis was ok. Only read some of it.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>The tightened up Pikmin AI is great; no more getting distracted on grass, and tripping is less frequent
Unironic dandori issues, the AI in 1 is fine.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I don't mind 1's AI, that game is still my favorite, lol. I just think 2 strikes the best balance of having an army be chaotic yet still controllable out of all the games.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I like to think that Pikmin just got smarter as time went on. They figured out how not to trip and how not fall off a narrow ledge.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>The tightened up Pikmin AI is great; no more getting distracted on grass, and tripping is less frequent
the pikmin 1 ai is good imo i really feels like you're trying to control an army of dumb living plant creatures
10 months ago
Anonymous
The AI in 1 was intentionally made silly because pikmin are near extinct (at least the ones you find) and you gotta teach them to not be dummies.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>sans massive amounts of in-character logs, Olimar and Louie are mute
What a stupid point to try to make, especially when the vast majority of end-of-day reports in 1 were "I should remember red pikmin don't burn." or "Onions exist."
10 months ago
Anonymous
The difference is that 1's logs were reactive, greatly benefiting immersion; Olimar would directly communicate based on what you experienced that day. The logs in the Piklopedia do not have this aspect, and if you never check it, you're not being exposed to Olimar's thoughts. Yeah, Olimar might say the obvious like "bomb rocks are dangerous", but that's because it happened on your day, and it's interesting for it to change in that way.
And there's tons of interesting logs in 1, its not just tutorial stuff.
https://www.pikminwiki.com/Olimar%27s_voyage_log
This isn't to shame the Piklopedia notes. They're great. I'm just saying that they don't have the same kind of flexibility as 1's logs, which really strengthened that game's narrative.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Glad someone else really likes the Pikmin 1 logs. Hearing the average working class guy's thoughts on the world he's stranded on as well as Olimar's thoughts on his family and anything else on his mind was always a joy. The log regarding the head of the Pilot Union is probably my favorite one in the game; I'm kind of sad it's not one you're guaranteed to see (and probably won't see, if you're playing efficiently), I think many people will express frustration at the inadequacies of Pikmin AI, and that log does show the burden that having a role of leadership could have on a person.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>"When I am surrounded by legions of Pikmin, I always picture the face of my boss, the head of Pilot Union. He was always so sharp-tongued with his orders, but I imagine he must have felt much the way that I do now. It's funny, how a change in perspective can bring with it a deeper understanding of others."
Is Olimar working for Hocotate Freight a retcon or is Shacho also the head of this Pilot Union? Or is this a prior job that Olimar had before Hocotate Freight? Damn, 1 is something else.
>yellows don't drop their bomb rocks when thrown and whistled back
therefore the updated versions of Pik 1 are objectively inferior to the GC original.
all true pikmin fans love all four games for different reasons
anyone whos like "2 is shit, 4 is a disaster" I just write off as shazamtrannies larping
When I heard pikmin 4 came out I pirated 3 finally to play it and I kinda dont like it. Was pikmin 1 and 2 this peacful and easy? Also its weird I never felt like I really clicked with the controls I dont recall having the issue with 1 and 2. It was also very short I think I got all the fruit on like day like 22 or so. 4 better than 3 at least? I should replay 2 and see if it holds up. Havent played it in like 15 years or something crazy.
Can't speak to 3 or 4 but yes in general all the games are easy/"comfy".
2 definitely holds up and I'm really liking replaying it. Runs well on dolphin no problems at all.
Pikmin 3 kinda requires the Wii U Gamepad to really shine. I haven't played the Switch version but from what I remember it was amazing due to the Wii U Gamepad and it's hard to imagine it being so good without it.
Pikmin 2 was the first game I played and that made Pikmin 1 even more ethereal and mysterious for some reason.
It's hard to describe. Before I got Pikmin 1 I would just fantasize about how "weird and different" it would be, and when I finally got around to playing it, I was really enchanted.
I still find that game creepy and odd to this day. I love it.
For me I played pikmin 1 first but the 30 days to escape or you die thing scared me off from completing it, (that and smoky prog). I still fantasized about the game and what I did with my toys for years after and finally in high-school I completed it after beating Pikmin 2
It would have been perfect if they had just made it a little harder and also made the npcs shut the frick up after the first area. I dont need to hear >Poor little pikmin >oh no! call your pikmin back!
every fricking time something happens. Enemies were too easy to blast through, bosses needed more health.
8.5/10 for me, better GOTY material than TOTK
they made the game even easier than 3 somehow and the caves aren't as good as the ones in 2. Outside of that it's pretty good, weakest of the 4 games though. 7/10
it has more floors than any cave in 2 you can just progress through them more quickly because there aren't bomb traps from the sky or that one sublevel with bottomless pits and cannon fellas (that has the same layout as the sage trial 5)
I genuinely don't get how people say Pikmin 4 is too easy. It IS easy, but there is absolutely nothing in Pikmin 1 or 2 that comes close to being anywhere near as hard as the "hard" content in 4 (like the dandoori and night time challenges and stuff). It just seems silly to call it too easy when nothing that came before it was in any way harder.
Best Pikmin game, loads of content, anything bad I have to say about it is a nitpick.
People who have 20 years of Pikmin knowledge are upset that the game doesn't have romhack difficulty.
If you watch people new to the series play Pikmin 4, they're struggling with the game in the exact same ways everybody does when they play their first Pikmin game.
>(like the dandoori and night time challenges and stuff
You must be really shit at video games to think the night missions are anything beyond toddler level. You literally just spend the first few minutes massing pikmin and then you actively go seek out the enemies and you permastunlock them with the glow bomb and then dog charge and nothing can ever attack you.
Dandori is super easy once you realize all the hard ones are just the same as the night missions. You start in a pikmin deficit compared to your opponent, you fix that, and then you just harass the shit out of them and you plat it every time. You're moronic if you can't plat every single dandori mission within three tries.
Dingo is not skipable because the game dosent allow you to skip him.
He is not in any specific cave but instead is the X castaway you find.
I imagine its the same with the rest
It's so weird how this game invents problems that the other three didn't have. Why don't the enemies respawn after a few days? Why is it so hard to get MORE than the required number of Pikmin to assist in moving an object faster (they never respond unless you throw them directly in the objects path while it's already moving)?
I replayed 1-3 twice, played them all comfy then went to see how fast I could finish.
now playing 4, just got to the house. I played the demo and watched reviews and I guess I wasn't paying enough attention, it's just not fun to play.
the game will not stfu about dandoori but there are no opportunities to min-max in the actual game. like said I cannot for the life of me get the pikmin to double up carrying something, you cannot even double-charge like in Pikmin 3. and honestly, why would you? there is no reason to rush anything.
there's not even any "tricks" like in the other three, random shit to totally frick you up if you're not playing conservatively, enemies that pop up and kill pikmin if you're not around. you just go around the map throwing pikmin at any task, you know there is a 99% chance they will accomplish it without getting eaten.
I replayed 1-3 twice, played them all comfy then went to see how fast I could finish.
now playing 4, just got to the house. I played the demo and watched reviews and I guess I wasn't paying enough attention, it's just not fun to play.
the game will not stfu about dandoori but there are no opportunities to min-max in the actual game. like said I cannot for the life of me get the pikmin to double up carrying something, you cannot even double-charge like in Pikmin 3. and honestly, why would you? there is no reason to rush anything.
there's not even any "tricks" like in the other three, random shit to totally frick you up if you're not playing conservatively, enemies that pop up and kill pikmin if you're not around. you just go around the map throwing pikmin at any task, you know there is a 99% chance they will accomplish it without getting eaten.
The way doubling up works is pikmin when hitting the ground (but not when they're idle) will look around for something to do, unless you're locked onto an object then the game will usually not let you throw extra or if you're lucky it'll let you throw one every couple of seconds. So if you throw pikmin in an object's path but too far from it the moment they hit the ground they will sit there idle until they get another order or they die at sunset.
I know, but it's unbelievably frustrating. the cursor continuous to lock on even when it doesn't "want" you to throw anymore, so you have to manually unlock and then try to aim, but if you start throwing before the pikmin move they go idle.
but don't worry about idling, just use the giga horn that calls all idle pikmin to you and trivializes the game :^)
I wouldn't mind any of this stuff if there was actual "dandoori" things in the game, like challenges with razor thin time margins. maybe I will eventually find these, but even the challenges I've played are unbelievably easy
It irks me to no end how they just fricked up idling in this game. In Pikmin 1, 2, and 3, idle pikmin would run towards anything interactable within their distance. That's how the idling state worked, and people used it understanding that, like leaving pikmin in the path of an object so they'll help when it reaches them. But in 4, they don't do that. Idle pikmin just don't do shit. Except when they do, like if you dismiss near something? There's like, different forms or conditions to idling now, and it just convolutes everything needlessly.
TLDR Pikmin 4 is game which drowns in its own QOL mechanics, ironically overcomplicating the game from its original graceful simplicity
For situations like the one I literally described. >Know an object is being carried this way >Don't want to run all the way towards it to put more pikmin on it >I'll just throw a few on the path I know it'll take so they'll grab it when it comes
If you try that in Pikmin 4 they'll just sit there and let it pass right by without helping at all
It's just understanding how a game mechanic works and utilizing it to your advantage. The idling state has working the same for like 3 games and now it doesn't, you simply can't do the same stuff with it that you could before. Also being aware, competent, and careful is part of the game. You have to take care of your pikmin. It wouldn't be any fun if your pikmin automatically pathed around all hazards and potential dangers when following you for instance. If you dismiss your pikmin and they run straight into electricity, maybe you shouldn't have dismissed right next to the deadly but completely static electrical node.
This. I always spent the first few days clearing out all the enemies, and then completing all the tasks at my leisure. It's stupid that you can do this.
Okay. Where the FRICK is the art of Olimar having sex with his wife? Why is it that I can find art of him pounding Louie's ass or getting his ass pounded by Louie or the Plasm Wraith but I can't find any of him pounding his wife's pussy? I can find art of him having a fat ass and getting creampied by Captain Falcon but nothing with Olimar and his wife? What the hell?
Pikmin fans are all either gays or fujos, just like with resident evil 8 your never find art of a character fricking their wife but find plenty of art of the character fricking another dude.
>I HATE puzzles I HATE strategy I just want to mindlessly throw purple Black folk at monsters in randomly generated dungeons for 20 hours
This is what 2gays honestly think to themselves every day
But that's not what 2 was, that's 4 (until dandori challenges). Oatchin too OP.
>2gays still defend randomly-generated caves
the crafted layouts in 4 alone make it superior
Were they randomly generated? Pretty sure sunken castle was 1:1 and I don't remember randomization in 2 on the few times I went back to caves.
https://i.imgur.com/HcQd1Wh.png
Okay it's been a month.
What are our thoughts on Pikmin 4?
Despite what I said, it's good. Would love it to win more awards than Zelda because this has the better fanbase (most of the time). See here for an example
Best Pikmin game, loads of content, anything bad I have to say about it is a nitpick.
People who have 20 years of Pikmin knowledge are upset that the game doesn't have romhack difficulty.
If you watch people new to the series play Pikmin 4, they're struggling with the game in the exact same ways everybody does when they play their first Pikmin game.
I genuinely don't get how people say Pikmin 4 is too easy. It IS easy, but there is absolutely nothing in Pikmin 1 or 2 that comes close to being anywhere near as hard as the "hard" content in 4 (like the dandoori and night time challenges and stuff). It just seems silly to call it too easy when nothing that came before it was in any way harder.
You'd have a point if Otachi wasn't in the game. Because he trivializes the game and he/Moss are only balanced for Olimar's gaiden and dandori challenges. Same with winding back the clock - though I can understand doing it if some real BS happens like a pikmin idling far away at the end of the day for some reason. Only hard night challenge was the last one with 2 progs and multiple bosses.
>Cave layouts exactly the same every single time
It's fricking boring because unlike the vast overworld areas, there's not enough in each sublevel to offer a meaningful sense of optimization or strategy. Not to mention the timer slows down so optimization still doesn't matter that much. And yet despite that, if you replay the caves you will literally find yourself doing the exact same thing again in each sublevel because of course you will naturally gravitate TOWARDS the optimum solution. I was already getting bored of the caves during my demo playthroughs.
2's caves are better because they're reactionary. There is no optimum solution and you will never find yourself taking the same path through them. You have to see what there is and figure out what you should do, every single time and every single playthrough.
I hope 4 gets a New Game Plus mode where you keep your upgrades, but the game has a 30 day time limit. Also caves are randomized like in 2. Randomizers are great post-game stuff.
The mission and level design and UI aesthetic is more reminiscent of a mini-game collection like Wii Play or Nintendo Land and it turned me off a bit. Oatchi trivializes most boss encounters and ice pikmin delete standard enemies. It's too easy and honestly pretty boring compared to even 3.
2 > 1 > 3 > 4
It feels like a real Pikmin game when they take the dog away from you. I wish very much they played with that sense of vulnerability more by separating you from him more often. Him getting "sick" would have been the perfect opportunity to take the training wheels off.
Still, very good. That final boss killed more of my mins than the other three put together, I think. Thank God for greens.
other than control criticisms, I don't like how pikmin 4's caves feel pretty much the same as they did in pikmin 2. There wasn't enough of an evolution in scale or design going on.
4's alright, I prefer it over 2 and 3 but it can't top 1.
Music is probably my biggest complaints, felt like it focused way too much on being atmospheric at the cost of not being memorable (with the exceptions of the new tracks for Olimar's side story, which were fine). The lock on is just moronic, with no option to disable it or make it less sensitive, which makes trying to attend to multiple tasks in a small area a nuisance.
Oatchi is stupidly overpowered, specifically the ability to charge at enemies while also throwing your entire squad at them. Despite this, I had a blast with the game. Love that it is much longer than Pikmin 3. At some point I'll do another playthrough with minimized Oatchi and item usage. Makes the game more interesting.
Pretty sure everyone is, that’s one of the main criticisms of 4 rn
>The constant tutorialization and interruptions. For every single little mechanic in the game, the Hocotate Ship, a "character" with zero substance, will speak to you and explain the obvious, over and over, constantly. It's grating in the early game. Not only that, you have to sit through 40 MINUTES OF TREASURE ACQUIRY CUTSCENES, one for each of the 200 treasures, with their fake names being funny maybe about 5% of the time. There is a mod that fixes this, but 2 as it is utterly disrespect's the player's time. This isn't even to mention the things like the constant save prompts between cave subfloors or all the other animations and delays you need to wait or skip through. It's a game that constantly breaks its flow, whereas 1 was entirely seamless throughout the day.
Pikmin 2 has some good things. The tightened up Pikmin AI is great; no more getting distracted on grass, and tripping is less frequent, but you still need to manage/control your army (something that 3 and 4 essentially removed). The music is excellent and wonderfully experimental, especially in the caves. The game's visuals are a minor step up from 1, and that's much appreciated. The overworld sections, while often brief, and immediate sprints to the next cave, are mildly enjoyable. Whites and Purples are good additions (though they could've been more intelligently used), and Bulbmin are absolutely adorable. Submerged Castle is the only cave of any real worth (though the Giant Breadbug in Glutton's Kitchen is funny), actually having some real tension, provided you aren't fast enough. Challenge Mode is...okay. The Piklopedia is an absolutely meditative and enjoyable read, with transcendental music, but it's not part of the game. But that's about all I can say positive about the game. I think there's something here that a good sequel could've used, but as it is, I did not like the game.
(5/5)
Thoughts on 4’s caves? Do you think they were handled better?
>Thoughts on 4’s caves? Do you think they were handled better?
They're a definite improvement, enough for me to say they're good, but I still don't like the concept, anyways.
They still serve to break the game's pace and replace the time management with resource management, which doesn't work.
Now, them SLOWING time instead of PAUSING time is a huge improvement, you'll still want to get through them fast, but I still don't generally like their concept as they break up pacing and are visually bland. Additionally, I do not like "boss fights" in the traditional sense in Pikmin. Bosses should just be big enemies in the world you strategize over, not obstacles you're forced to overcome (because, again, combat in Pikmin is nothing special, it's how it's integrated into your dandori that matters most). Also, they retread WAY too much ground from Pikmin 2. There's a lot of reused subfloors and sub floor themes. Cute memberberries at first but again I wish this game had more of an identity of its own.
Ultimately, I don't think they add much to the game, and if they were taken away, besides some nice puzzles, I don't think I'd miss them too much.
Plus 4's caves hardly even have music, and if they do, it's boss music or it's taken STRAIGHT out of Pikmin 2. Pikmin 4's soundtrack is honestly kind of a travesty.
I love it. My only issues could be solved with a hard mode DLC (dog rush too strong, enemies don't respawn in the overworls, ice pikmin too OP). I feel the game would be pretty fun to play at base level Oatchi, 50 Pikmin cap and with no icies tho
Look almost as good as 3
Best content of the 4
Adding some challenge maps inside the story was a great idea
Oatchi is just way too strong and ruins the game, because you just ignore your pikmins and only/mostly use oatchi to deal with the various hazards
Overall I'd still say it's one of the best pikmin game
Lot of weird decisions, particularly with upgrades and onions. Oatchi makes too many things far too easy. Would have been nice to be able to disable auto-lock on.
But it's the fattest frick of a Pikmin game yet, and I still want more. More challenges, more battle arenas, another entire area with more castaways to save. Give me more, dammit.
Maybe I'll do a playthrough using Oatchi as little as possible, though I keep thinking how awful Man At Legs will be without the trumpet.
35h in and it's one of the most inspiring games I've played in recent years.
just unlocked the forest, and I haven't done olimar's shipwreck tale yet.
I'm on day 27.
wonder if I should save olimars shipwreck tale for after I finish the main story.
>its another night mission that summons LE SPOOKYPRAG
man maybe this shit would be scary if this wasn't the fourth time and i couldn't fricking nuke the thing instantly
the game feels very unplaytested, like they had 3 or 4 people all making mission content but they never talked to each other or played them all back to back
>Game has no time limit >Still divided into days for no reason >Only effect this has is to interrupt your play with cutscenes of flying back to base, loading screens, then fly back to where you just were and resuming what you were doing
Great game. Not as good as the first two. Too easy. Lock on is objectively bad game design. It can actually interfere with gameplay. Stupid modern Earth setting. Dandori Challenges are the best part of the game. They should just release an entire game of Dandori Challenges and give us a level editor to make our own and share online. It would be the best thing they've made in years.
sex with Lisa
fundamentally it's the best pikmin game, but it's far too easy and the auto lock-on can go frick itself
fpbp
Good video game.
Yeah the lock-on sucks and I don't know what the point was when you have motion controls anyway.
>far too easy
This was my biggest complaint by far.
But the bit that fricking boggles me is the number of people who seem to sincerely believe that the dandori battles were difficult.
Like... the AI is basically pants-on-head moronic and even the most difficult one can be one-shot with no strategy going in.
But even outside of those: Bosses were universally trivial; in particular, Man At Legs and Empress Bulblax were both significantly easier than previous iterations, to the point that I feel like a generation of younger players won't get to experience the sense of dread or creepy discomfort that they provided us.
the Water Wraith becoming a Purple Pikmin tutorial was insulting
mods are here. we have a mod to respawn enemies and a work in progress ultra spicy mod
Why does everyone else call her Rookie? Where did the name Lisa come from?
It's a meme. There are some small autistic reviewers on YouTube who call the PC/Rookie by the name they made up.
I prefer sex with Shepherd
This art is leagues better than
, that's a +1 for shepherd bros.
I never considered Shepherd sex before but now you have my attention
COPY that!
>Dog is overpowered and ultimately trivialises most content.
>2 had longer and more thematically interesting caves, if you enjoyed that sort of thing.
>1 was a more coherent game and the time challenge felt more meaningful.
>All the bosses felt so weak. Just about everything could be killed in one "down" phase, a couple took 2. None were a threat.
>Particularly exemplary of the above, with a handful of exceptions (generally crushing) it seems most enemies had a very low "max pikmin killed per attack" value. Like bulblaxes licking your whole squad and getting... 8 pikmin.
>Challenges and battles were way too easy. With a couple of exceptions in the post-game secret dungeon, almost every single one could be completed with one strategy:
1. Raise, pluck or find pikmin first.
2. bum-rush everything
3. press the "idle pikmin come here" button every minute or two.
>Pikmin 1 and 2 had this "Superficially childish, but actually a bit grim" design, from aesthetics to music to plot. Pikmin 3 and 4 both had "Superficially childish, but actually just childish".
>Plot was shallow
>Retcons 1 and 2.
Overall, it felt like a straight upgrade from 3.
But that means it left a lot behind that 1 and 2 had that 3 didn't do right.
it's still good, but it's a 6-7/10
>Overall, it felt like a straight upgrade from 3.
no 4 is easily the worst game in the series
i respectfully disagree, Black person. pikmin 4 is easily the best game in the series
4 has nothing good going for it
it has everything good going for it, actually. especially the entire game of pikmin 1 retold after you save olimar, i still prefer the original, but so far this was a really nice surprise
>shitty controls
>shitty story
>easier than 3
>dog more important than pikmin
its a bad game
sorry you feel that way
>2 had longer and more thematically interesting caves, if you enjoyed that sort of thing.
I missed this the most.
The bite sized challenges you get with the caves in 4 were great, don't get me wrong. ...But man, those lengthy gauntlets in Pikmin 2 truly made the game feel like a real adventure.
I prefers the feel of one, the caves weren't that fun to trek into
>2 had longer and more thematically interesting caves, if you enjoyed that sort of thing.
2's caves are not more thematically interesting. In fact, most of them refuse to hold to a single theme. The only caves I can think of that have a strong theme are the shower room, subterranean complex, and the submerged castle. Whereas each cave in 4 had an identity.
>Dog is overpowered and ultimately trivialises most content.
I am tired of this. What you mean is that the dog trivializes most COMBAT not content. Pikmin is more than just combat. And recall that if you're using the dog for combat you're not using him for collecting things. I agree that using the dog for combat make the caves much faster but this isn't really the case aboveground. You need to be more thoughtful there with your dog usage.
>Each cave in 4 had an identity
All the first area's caves blend together and so do half the second area's. Most caves in 2 DID have a coherent theme and I can tell you them.
>Bulblax Kingdom: a kingdom of bulborbs and bulblaxes
>Snagret Hole: a hole full of snagrets, even has that cool birdhouse set piece
>Frontier Cavern: Christmas
>Subterranean Complex: Lots of explosives
>Citadel of Spiders: Full of dweevils and other insect enemies
>Glutton's Kitchen: Breadbugs, they even just repeated it in 4
>Submerged Castle: Nuff said, they also ripped it for 4
>Shower Room: Remembered for its ceramic tiling theme and abundance of jellyfloats
>Hole of Heroes: Boss rush gauntlet
>Dream Den: It's the final cave
The only ones with no clear, strong theme are Emergence Cave, Hole of Beasts, White Flower Garden, and Cavern of Chaos. 3 of which are very early-game introductory caves.
>people actually want longer caves
This fricking baffles the shit out of me, if anything 4 made them more tolerable. Caves are legitimately an awful addition to the series, and they fundamentally go against the spirit of what the first game set out to do. I loved 1 because of the thriving organic environments and ecosystems, I didn’t play it to spend 20 hours in dimly lit fricking caves. If I wanted to play a shitty fricking dungeon crawler, I’d play smt for christ sakes
The thing is that everyone expects a big game. One of the major complaints with 3 was its short length. Do you know why it was short, like Pikmin 1? Because it didn't have caves.
Caves lengthen the game by providing vacuum spaces separate from the main areas. You can put anything in them and it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect anything in the overworld. Even with having the most overworld areas in the series, Pikmin 4 would still be a very short game if you completely removed all the caves. It doesn't matter how large you make the overworld areas, there will never be enough space to fit all the enemies and bosses and treasures in them, and you'll just create new problems by making areas too large.
Caves are the best part of the series and i will continue to replay pikmin 2 and maybe 4 from time to time.
Cope and sneed
>Pikmin is supposed to be THIS and THIS only!
Pikmin has always been a flexible series and it can be whatever it wants. Just look at the series and see how well its managed at trying out different things in each entry.
have a nice day.
didn't get to it yet but i beat 1, am 60% of the way through 2 and just got 3deluxe running on yuzu yesterday
whats the state of emulation for 4? playable?
Best game in the series, hands down.
should be a GOTY contender but it wont be so im mad!
>should be a GOTY
pfft
Yes.
It's good, but not the direction the series should've gone in, at all.
They still haven't topped pic related.
Yep.
Pikmin 1 and 2 were essentially (separate) thematic standalones.
Pikmin 4 was a sequel to pikmin 3 that took some influences from pikmin 2.
Can someone explain the love for pikmin 1 on this board to me? I'm
so I literally just replayed both 1&2 and played both as a kid, I don't understand the love for 1 as to me 2 is a direct upgrade. Asking in good faith, not shitpost.
Some people cite the time challenge but honestly its meaningless unless you're a small child. You can easily complete the entire game in ~20 days with no rush so there's really no reason for the timer to exist.
I don't see much of a difference in mood/atmosphere. I don't mind the caves also which I know some people didn't like and that's a valid reason to favor 1 over 2 if you didn't.
I've yet to play 3 or 4 though, are they really that different?
2 has always sorta been considered the best game but recently 1 being held as the best seems like a more popular opinion. Its probbably the darkest game for whatever thats worth. Also people really think the lack of a day timer in 2 destroys the games challenge and makes it too easy. Though as you said the 30 days is extremely generous frick you dont even need all the pieces either. I recall my 5 year old brother beating it on his first try. He didnt 100% it but he beat it.
>He didnt 100% it but he beat it.
he didnt beat it
It's multifaceted.
1 had the benefit of being a novel idea. In hindsight and compared to 2, in particular, it wasn't terribly difficult. But compared with games at the time it was very much less forgiving than it originally appeared.
>Fixed time limits; death as a frequent component of gameplay; lethal ambushing enemie;, major frick-ups not just possible, but easy if unprepared; etc.
It also encouraged planning and strategies that weren't really seen in mainstream games at the time: Since you could easily have 50+ pikmin die in a fight if you did a bad job, it was sometimes worth spending an entire day doing nothing but returning to an older area and growing pikmin for a day - at the tradeoff of added pressure to get all pieces.
It was something very original and, as you say, particularly challenging for children - which many of us were.
So it's remembered fondly for that reason.
But moving on from that and removing the rose-tinted glasses: it was a very cohesive game.
There was a true sense of progression and increasing challenge. There were few gimmicks, with mechanics and tools far more limited than subsequent titles. This meant the puzzles, when they presented, were tighter and combat more focused.
The series' highest points weren't in the original game, I'd argue areas like the original Man at Legs in 2 were significant high-points. But overall, it did the most things right.
A direct sequel to 1, rather than a side-grade like 2, is a game I'd really like to play.
Something that captures the superficial simplicity, but deeper complexity and strategy, especially with the element of a timed challenge.
I will explain why I did not like 2 and prefer 1. If you ask I can also say why I prefer 1 over all the other games as well.
>Caves in 2 make up 80% of the gameplay and are mildly entertaining at best and tedious slogs at worst. As the only resource is your Pikmin, you're encouraged to play as safe and as cautious as possible, turning the game into an utter slog unless you want to waste time resetting. The random generation may make the game more replayable in a superficial sense, but you're always doing the same thing in the same caves, even if the layouts are slightly different; at worst, the random generation can even be a detriment, placing walls that have nothing behind them whatsoever. And when you're facing gauntlets of up to 20 subfloor long caves...it gets utterly tiring.
>Difficulty. The game is bullshit, but you can offset the bullshit with Ultra-Bitter Sprays and Purple Pikmin. With a squad of 20~ Purples, all combat is utterly trivialized. Thus, the game's difficulty "ramps up" in a stupid way - by tossing tons of traps and falling objects in caves that will punish players with decent-sized squads, essentially encouraging the strategy of going around cave floors and triggering all of them, which is fricking boring. If combat is trivial, and the only difficulty can also be made trivial with a light jog around a cave subfloor, 2 is a game that punishes haste and encourages tedium.
(1/?)
>The elimination of the time limit (chiefly in the caves) kind of shatters the gameplay, as much of the game's design is based on being timesinks. Walls and things like Pikmin carrying objects are nothing but annoying waits rather than things to account for in your strategy. Combat in Pikmin was never the focus, and it's typically quite shallow; your goal was to collect ship parts, and combat only served to remove hazards in the way. The challenge came from managing/avoiding combat in your day's strategy, not from the complexity of the combat itself. Strip away the strategy and combat in Pikmin 2 devolves into you using Ultra-Spicy Sprays and mashing A. Sure, the time limit is trivially ignored in 1, but things like the day timer still exist, and you're ranked by your completion time; the need for efficiency is encouraged, not discarded entirely, and wrapping up a day quickly means you will have more time to grow Pikmin or make sure none are lost.
>Lock-and-key level design. Rather than Pikmin being used for strategic purposes (do I spend bomb rocks on this enemy, or on a wall? I'm going to be fighting enemies to get a ship part in water, how many reds/blues should I bring?), there's a hazard, and you need to pick the right kind of Pikmin. Poison? Use Whites. Electricity? Use Yellows. Fire? Reds. A heavy object? Use Purples. Rather than Pikmin having their own strategic niche, as each did in 1 (Reds are for combat, Yellows are for utility, Blues are for navigating a terrain that can't be accessed by other Pikmin), much of 2's game design boils down to the elementary puzzle of fitting the square-shaped peg in the square-shaped hole. These aren't puzzles and have no depth, and this is unfortunately a problem that 2 carried onto its sequels.
(2/?)
>2's atmosphere is utterly distinct from 1. Treasures are impossibly pristine versus the few, heavily deteriorated human remains that are present in 1, confusing the atmosphere established in 1 in exchange for product placement (which is admittedly cute, but at odds with 1's presentation). Caves are utterly nonsensical and feel more like alternate dimensions rather than actual places (given that they pause time, maybe they are). The game's sound design can be grating with the Pikmin constantly going "HUH-HUH-HUH" and the Treasure Gauge repeatedly beeping.
>2's locations just being remixes of 1 is nice, but totally new locations would've been much more appreciated (though it can be hard to tell at first). Valley of Repose is the sole exception, and it's probably the most interesting because of that.
>The Doomsday Apparatus essentially flips the game on its head for completionists. Unless you want to grind multiple times in the Subterranean Complex, YOU CANNOT LOSE A SINGLE PURPLE PIKMIN ACROSS THE ENTIRETY OF THE GAME (and even THEN, you will still have to grind at least ONCE, as the game doesn't give you 100 Purples if you go through each cave once). This means if you don't want to waste time, you need to play absolutely perfectly with Purples in caves...essentially FORCING you to be EVEN MORE CAUTIOUS than you already are, slowing the game down even MORE.
(3/?)
>2's story essentially craps over 1 in exchange for a story without any payoff or emotional nuance. Sans the Piklopedia, Olimar is entirely mute during the course of the game (besides saying his name when you switch to him), which means 1's excellent character writing is now entirely gone, replaced with shallow, one-note cartoon characters, who spout nothing but crap in the end-of-day emails. Olimar comes back home to Hocotate, not to see his family he was worried about never seeing again, but right back to his employer (and don't say "he's a Japanese salaryman", he's a family man, first and foremost, 1 made that clear, and no, he didn't see his family off-screen, the bottlecap souvenir shows otherwise). His ship, the object that we built up over the course of 1, outfitted with family mementos, Olimar's pride and joy, is ripped right from his hands, and Olimar says absolutely NOTHING about it. The goal of the game is to pay off the debt; you achieve this, but now Louie is missing, and when you get all the treasures, you simply just...leave. There's no sort of emotional payoff in the story, the game just sort of ends. Louie himself is entirely mute sans his cooking notes, giving little reason to ever get invested in his character (and, surprise, it's his fault the story happened anyway...yay). 2 isn't alone in this fault; every other Pikmin game besides 1 has bad stories, which is a shame because 1 was an absolutely excellent, sobering man-versus-nature affair.
>The squandering of a second captain. This isn't a flaw per se, but it's missed potential. With no "Go Here" function (besides the Napsack), having a second captain serves little to no purpose besides some mild multitasking. There are no clever puzzles with the mechanic with the exception of the Ranging Bloyster (but even then that can be beaten without switching). You can do things like pluck Pikmin at base or pluck Pikmin faster...but the mechanic sees little interesting gameplay use.
(4/?)
>The constant tutorialization and interruptions. For every single little mechanic in the game, the Hocotate Ship, a "character" with zero substance, will speak to you and explain the obvious, over and over, constantly. It's grating in the early game. Not only that, you have to sit through 40 MINUTES OF TREASURE ACQUIRY CUTSCENES, one for each of the 200 treasures, with their fake names being funny maybe about 5% of the time. There is a mod that fixes this, but 2 as it is utterly disrespect's the player's time. This isn't even to mention the things like the constant save prompts between cave subfloors or all the other animations and delays you need to wait or skip through. It's a game that constantly breaks its flow, whereas 1 was entirely seamless throughout the day.
Pikmin 2 has some good things. The tightened up Pikmin AI is great; no more getting distracted on grass, and tripping is less frequent, but you still need to manage/control your army (something that 3 and 4 essentially removed). The music is excellent and wonderfully experimental, especially in the caves. The game's visuals are a minor step up from 1, and that's much appreciated. The overworld sections, while often brief, and immediate sprints to the next cave, are mildly enjoyable. Whites and Purples are good additions (though they could've been more intelligently used), and Bulbmin are absolutely adorable. Submerged Castle is the only cave of any real worth (though the Giant Breadbug in Glutton's Kitchen is funny), actually having some real tension, provided you aren't fast enough. Challenge Mode is...okay. The Piklopedia is an absolutely meditative and enjoyable read, with transcendental music, but it's not part of the game. But that's about all I can say positive about the game. I think there's something here that a good sequel could've used, but as it is, I did not like the game.
(5/5)
Cool analysis, thanks for sharing.
Shit analysis didn't read
The analysis was ok. Only read some of it.
>The tightened up Pikmin AI is great; no more getting distracted on grass, and tripping is less frequent
Unironic dandori issues, the AI in 1 is fine.
I don't mind 1's AI, that game is still my favorite, lol. I just think 2 strikes the best balance of having an army be chaotic yet still controllable out of all the games.
I like to think that Pikmin just got smarter as time went on. They figured out how not to trip and how not fall off a narrow ledge.
>The tightened up Pikmin AI is great; no more getting distracted on grass, and tripping is less frequent
the pikmin 1 ai is good imo i really feels like you're trying to control an army of dumb living plant creatures
The AI in 1 was intentionally made silly because pikmin are near extinct (at least the ones you find) and you gotta teach them to not be dummies.
>sans massive amounts of in-character logs, Olimar and Louie are mute
What a stupid point to try to make, especially when the vast majority of end-of-day reports in 1 were "I should remember red pikmin don't burn." or "Onions exist."
The difference is that 1's logs were reactive, greatly benefiting immersion; Olimar would directly communicate based on what you experienced that day. The logs in the Piklopedia do not have this aspect, and if you never check it, you're not being exposed to Olimar's thoughts. Yeah, Olimar might say the obvious like "bomb rocks are dangerous", but that's because it happened on your day, and it's interesting for it to change in that way.
And there's tons of interesting logs in 1, its not just tutorial stuff.
https://www.pikminwiki.com/Olimar%27s_voyage_log
This isn't to shame the Piklopedia notes. They're great. I'm just saying that they don't have the same kind of flexibility as 1's logs, which really strengthened that game's narrative.
Glad someone else really likes the Pikmin 1 logs. Hearing the average working class guy's thoughts on the world he's stranded on as well as Olimar's thoughts on his family and anything else on his mind was always a joy. The log regarding the head of the Pilot Union is probably my favorite one in the game; I'm kind of sad it's not one you're guaranteed to see (and probably won't see, if you're playing efficiently), I think many people will express frustration at the inadequacies of Pikmin AI, and that log does show the burden that having a role of leadership could have on a person.
>"When I am surrounded by legions of Pikmin, I always picture the face of my boss, the head of Pilot Union. He was always so sharp-tongued with his orders, but I imagine he must have felt much the way that I do now. It's funny, how a change in perspective can bring with it a deeper understanding of others."
Is Olimar working for Hocotate Freight a retcon or is Shacho also the head of this Pilot Union? Or is this a prior job that Olimar had before Hocotate Freight? Damn, 1 is something else.
We were robbed
Cute Chicken Ball
>They still haven't topped pic related.
actually they did
>yellows don't drop their bomb rocks when thrown and whistled back
therefore the updated versions of Pik 1 are objectively inferior to the GC original.
all true pikmin fans love all four games for different reasons
anyone whos like "2 is shit, 4 is a disaster" I just write off as shazamtrannies larping
When I heard pikmin 4 came out I pirated 3 finally to play it and I kinda dont like it. Was pikmin 1 and 2 this peacful and easy? Also its weird I never felt like I really clicked with the controls I dont recall having the issue with 1 and 2. It was also very short I think I got all the fruit on like day like 22 or so. 4 better than 3 at least? I should replay 2 and see if it holds up. Havent played it in like 15 years or something crazy.
Can't speak to 3 or 4 but yes in general all the games are easy/"comfy".
2 definitely holds up and I'm really liking replaying it. Runs well on dolphin no problems at all.
Pikmin 3 kinda requires the Wii U Gamepad to really shine. I haven't played the Switch version but from what I remember it was amazing due to the Wii U Gamepad and it's hard to imagine it being so good without it.
Pikmin 2 was the first game I played and that made Pikmin 1 even more ethereal and mysterious for some reason.
It's hard to describe. Before I got Pikmin 1 I would just fantasize about how "weird and different" it would be, and when I finally got around to playing it, I was really enchanted.
I still find that game creepy and odd to this day. I love it.
For me I played pikmin 1 first but the 30 days to escape or you die thing scared me off from completing it, (that and smoky prog). I still fantasized about the game and what I did with my toys for years after and finally in high-school I completed it after beating Pikmin 2
It would have been perfect if they had just made it a little harder and also made the npcs shut the frick up after the first area. I dont need to hear
>Poor little pikmin
>oh no! call your pikmin back!
every fricking time something happens. Enemies were too easy to blast through, bosses needed more health.
8.5/10 for me, better GOTY material than TOTK
Pretty much my main complaints. Way too easy and way too much dialogue.
all these chucklefricks needed to stay frozen
having a hub town with 40 c**t pissing around is very anti-pikmincore
Great game. It's a bit too clinical in how it's divided compared to 2 was but the actual quality is better.
Best game in the series but outside of dandori plats it’s a cakewalk
I just beat it a few days ago. It was my first Pikmin game and I had a lot of fun and now I want to play the previous games.
they made the game even easier than 3 somehow and the caves aren't as good as the ones in 2. Outside of that it's pretty good, weakest of the 4 games though. 7/10
It feels like it never gets climactic, even the "long" final dungeon is super short compared to stuff in 2.
it has more floors than any cave in 2 you can just progress through them more quickly because there aren't bomb traps from the sky or that one sublevel with bottomless pits and cannon fellas (that has the same layout as the sage trial 5)
2chads won
I genuinely don't get how people say Pikmin 4 is too easy. It IS easy, but there is absolutely nothing in Pikmin 1 or 2 that comes close to being anywhere near as hard as the "hard" content in 4 (like the dandoori and night time challenges and stuff). It just seems silly to call it too easy when nothing that came before it was in any way harder.
Best Pikmin game, loads of content, anything bad I have to say about it is a nitpick.
People who have 20 years of Pikmin knowledge are upset that the game doesn't have romhack difficulty.
If you watch people new to the series play Pikmin 4, they're struggling with the game in the exact same ways everybody does when they play their first Pikmin game.
>(like the dandoori and night time challenges and stuff
You must be really shit at video games to think the night missions are anything beyond toddler level. You literally just spend the first few minutes massing pikmin and then you actively go seek out the enemies and you permastunlock them with the glow bomb and then dog charge and nothing can ever attack you.
Dandori is super easy once you realize all the hard ones are just the same as the night missions. You start in a pikmin deficit compared to your opponent, you fix that, and then you just harass the shit out of them and you plat it every time. You're moronic if you can't plat every single dandori mission within three tries.
2nd best Pikmin game aside from how babyified it is, Pikmin 2 mogs the frick out of it still though. 2 is the best by far.
Is Dingo skippable or is he a mandatory rescue like the rest of the rescue squad?
>Collin and Shepard forced in tutorial.
>Russ to build bridges
>Donnie to cure Bernard and Olimar
>Bernard to access Hero's Hideaway
>Dingo?
Dingo is not skipable because the game dosent allow you to skip him.
He is not in any specific cave but instead is the X castaway you find.
I imagine its the same with the rest
It's so weird how this game invents problems that the other three didn't have. Why don't the enemies respawn after a few days? Why is it so hard to get MORE than the required number of Pikmin to assist in moving an object faster (they never respond unless you throw them directly in the objects path while it's already moving)?
I like the game a lot regardless, though.
I replayed 1-3 twice, played them all comfy then went to see how fast I could finish.
now playing 4, just got to the house. I played the demo and watched reviews and I guess I wasn't paying enough attention, it's just not fun to play.
the game will not stfu about dandoori but there are no opportunities to min-max in the actual game. like said I cannot for the life of me get the pikmin to double up carrying something, you cannot even double-charge like in Pikmin 3. and honestly, why would you? there is no reason to rush anything.
there's not even any "tricks" like in the other three, random shit to totally frick you up if you're not playing conservatively, enemies that pop up and kill pikmin if you're not around. you just go around the map throwing pikmin at any task, you know there is a 99% chance they will accomplish it without getting eaten.
The way doubling up works is pikmin when hitting the ground (but not when they're idle) will look around for something to do, unless you're locked onto an object then the game will usually not let you throw extra or if you're lucky it'll let you throw one every couple of seconds. So if you throw pikmin in an object's path but too far from it the moment they hit the ground they will sit there idle until they get another order or they die at sunset.
I know, but it's unbelievably frustrating. the cursor continuous to lock on even when it doesn't "want" you to throw anymore, so you have to manually unlock and then try to aim, but if you start throwing before the pikmin move they go idle.
but don't worry about idling, just use the giga horn that calls all idle pikmin to you and trivializes the game :^)
I wouldn't mind any of this stuff if there was actual "dandoori" things in the game, like challenges with razor thin time margins. maybe I will eventually find these, but even the challenges I've played are unbelievably easy
There are indeed much harder challenges after the credits, so I'd recommend you keep playing if you're looking for that kind of difficulty
It irks me to no end how they just fricked up idling in this game. In Pikmin 1, 2, and 3, idle pikmin would run towards anything interactable within their distance. That's how the idling state worked, and people used it understanding that, like leaving pikmin in the path of an object so they'll help when it reaches them. But in 4, they don't do that. Idle pikmin just don't do shit. Except when they do, like if you dismiss near something? There's like, different forms or conditions to idling now, and it just convolutes everything needlessly.
TLDR Pikmin 4 is game which drowns in its own QOL mechanics, ironically overcomplicating the game from its original graceful simplicity
Why would you want idle pikmin to pick up stuff you didn't specifically ask them to do? In what situations would that be a problem?
For situations like the one I literally described.
>Know an object is being carried this way
>Don't want to run all the way towards it to put more pikmin on it
>I'll just throw a few on the path I know it'll take so they'll grab it when it comes
If you try that in Pikmin 4 they'll just sit there and let it pass right by without helping at all
It's just understanding how a game mechanic works and utilizing it to your advantage. The idling state has working the same for like 3 games and now it doesn't, you simply can't do the same stuff with it that you could before. Also being aware, competent, and careful is part of the game. You have to take care of your pikmin. It wouldn't be any fun if your pikmin automatically pathed around all hazards and potential dangers when following you for instance. If you dismiss your pikmin and they run straight into electricity, maybe you shouldn't have dismissed right next to the deadly but completely static electrical node.
>It's so weird how this game invents problems that the other three didn't have. Why don't the enemies respawn after a few days?
the funny thing is that enemies actually respawn in caves
This. I always spent the first few days clearing out all the enemies, and then completing all the tasks at my leisure. It's stupid that you can do this.
lock on is also fricking abhorrent and caused me way more problems than it fixed
It's fun but too easy. The dog makes positioning Pikmin irrelevant so you're never in any danger of losing them.
More titty pikmin
god bless troonymoto and his retcons
Is there any quest like the one with Olimar but with Louie?
Okay. Where the FRICK is the art of Olimar having sex with his wife? Why is it that I can find art of him pounding Louie's ass or getting his ass pounded by Louie or the Plasm Wraith but I can't find any of him pounding his wife's pussy? I can find art of him having a fat ass and getting creampied by Captain Falcon but nothing with Olimar and his wife? What the hell?
Pikmin porn just doesn't exist in general
Well it should.
It should but it should only be plasm wraith and its thick ass thighs
Pikmin fans are all either gays or fujos, just like with resident evil 8 your never find art of a character fricking their wife but find plenty of art of the character fricking another dude.
Why are Crapcom fans such massive homos anyway
there's art of Lisa and Shepherd fricking Oatchi if that counts
Why the hell would that count? I'm looking for art of wholesome marital sex, not your homosexualy beastiality.
My brain says Pikmin 4 is clearly the best of the series.
My heart says Pikmin 1.
Pikmin 4 would have been perfect had they made Olimar's story a bit better / longer.
fun and good
the first pikmin game that didn't make me feel like I had to play like a passive homosexual and could actually multitask
just sounds you suck and you needed a literal baby game to multitask
more like the pikmin AI isn't fricking braindead and doesn't get completely fricking run through the moment you take your eyes off them
skill issue
I played the demo and cancelled my preorder.
I hate all the NPC dialogue.
>I HATE puzzles I HATE strategy I just want to mindlessly throw purple Black folk at monsters in randomly generated dungeons for 20 hours
This is what 2gays honestly think to themselves every day
Miyamoto, NO!!!
But that's not what 2 was, that's 4 (until dandori challenges). Oatchin too OP.
Were they randomly generated? Pretty sure sunken castle was 1:1 and I don't remember randomization in 2 on the few times I went back to caves.
Despite what I said, it's good. Would love it to win more awards than Zelda because this has the better fanbase (most of the time). See here for an example
You'd have a point if Otachi wasn't in the game. Because he trivializes the game and he/Moss are only balanced for Olimar's gaiden and dandori challenges. Same with winding back the clock - though I can understand doing it if some real BS happens like a pikmin idling far away at the end of the day for some reason. Only hard night challenge was the last one with 2 progs and multiple bosses.
Do it
>2gays still defend randomly-generated caves
the crafted layouts in 4 alone make it superior
but its still worse than 1 and 3
>Cave layouts exactly the same every single time
It's fricking boring because unlike the vast overworld areas, there's not enough in each sublevel to offer a meaningful sense of optimization or strategy. Not to mention the timer slows down so optimization still doesn't matter that much. And yet despite that, if you replay the caves you will literally find yourself doing the exact same thing again in each sublevel because of course you will naturally gravitate TOWARDS the optimum solution. I was already getting bored of the caves during my demo playthroughs.
2's caves are better because they're reactionary. There is no optimum solution and you will never find yourself taking the same path through them. You have to see what there is and figure out what you should do, every single time and every single playthrough.
Pikmin 4 is all over the place but is on par with other Pikmin games.
The dog and autolock were a mistake.
Great game aside from that.
You can turn autolock off.
*with a mod
Really? I thought it was in the game options.
That's shit.
Why did you post about shit you knew nothing about
Wasn't me, I haven't played the game and was surprised to read this.
I hope 4 gets a New Game Plus mode where you keep your upgrades, but the game has a 30 day time limit. Also caves are randomized like in 2. Randomizers are great post-game stuff.
Too easy but good.
it's a flop, PS5 won. tendies seethe.
I played LEGO Rock Raiders instead
10/10
The mission and level design and UI aesthetic is more reminiscent of a mini-game collection like Wii Play or Nintendo Land and it turned me off a bit. Oatchi trivializes most boss encounters and ice pikmin delete standard enemies. It's too easy and honestly pretty boring compared to even 3.
2 > 1 > 3 > 4
It feels like a real Pikmin game when they take the dog away from you. I wish very much they played with that sense of vulnerability more by separating you from him more often. Him getting "sick" would have been the perfect opportunity to take the training wheels off.
Still, very good. That final boss killed more of my mins than the other three put together, I think. Thank God for greens.
I'm loving each moment i play it.
other than control criticisms, I don't like how pikmin 4's caves feel pretty much the same as they did in pikmin 2. There wasn't enough of an evolution in scale or design going on.
I am watching the Pikmin fandom die in real time.
It's been a month. We will back with the DLC or Pikmin 5 10 years from now.
did you miss the last 10 years it survived purely off of schizophrenia?
Little fricker
4's alright, I prefer it over 2 and 3 but it can't top 1.
Music is probably my biggest complaints, felt like it focused way too much on being atmospheric at the cost of not being memorable (with the exceptions of the new tracks for Olimar's side story, which were fine). The lock on is just moronic, with no option to disable it or make it less sensitive, which makes trying to attend to multiple tasks in a small area a nuisance.
Dingo is my favorite character
1 > 3 > 4 > 2 during honey moon phase
1 > 3 > 2 > 4 now
Not even pirating Pikmin 5 if they decide to keep the homosexual dog
k bye, you won't be missed
>you won't be missed
This but for Pikmin 4
2 is just that shit
nah it's the best but I respect liking 1 more than it. liking 3 more than 2 is bad taste
>3 > 2
3 is a dumbed down 1 like how 4 is a dumbed down 2
Oatchi is stupidly overpowered, specifically the ability to charge at enemies while also throwing your entire squad at them. Despite this, I had a blast with the game. Love that it is much longer than Pikmin 3. At some point I'll do another playthrough with minimized Oatchi and item usage. Makes the game more interesting.
Best pikmin game
Would be the best if it wasn’t lobotomized and didn’t wrestled control away from you.
Is anyone else disappointed that they didn't continue the story from 3?
Pretty sure everyone is, that’s one of the main criticisms of 4 rn
Thoughts on 4’s caves? Do you think they were handled better?
>Thoughts on 4’s caves? Do you think they were handled better?
They're a definite improvement, enough for me to say they're good, but I still don't like the concept, anyways.
They still serve to break the game's pace and replace the time management with resource management, which doesn't work.
Now, them SLOWING time instead of PAUSING time is a huge improvement, you'll still want to get through them fast, but I still don't generally like their concept as they break up pacing and are visually bland. Additionally, I do not like "boss fights" in the traditional sense in Pikmin. Bosses should just be big enemies in the world you strategize over, not obstacles you're forced to overcome (because, again, combat in Pikmin is nothing special, it's how it's integrated into your dandori that matters most). Also, they retread WAY too much ground from Pikmin 2. There's a lot of reused subfloors and sub floor themes. Cute memberberries at first but again I wish this game had more of an identity of its own.
Ultimately, I don't think they add much to the game, and if they were taken away, besides some nice puzzles, I don't think I'd miss them too much.
Plus 4's caves hardly even have music, and if they do, it's boss music or it's taken STRAIGHT out of Pikmin 2. Pikmin 4's soundtrack is honestly kind of a travesty.
I love it. My only issues could be solved with a hard mode DLC (dog rush too strong, enemies don't respawn in the overworls, ice pikmin too OP). I feel the game would be pretty fun to play at base level Oatchi, 50 Pikmin cap and with no icies tho
Rebooting it wasn't necessary and calling it "Pikmin FOUR" even with the reboot makes it worse.
I'm still playing Pikmin 2, stuck in Submerged Castle due to the Waterwraith and the Anode Dweevil killing all my blue pikmins.
How's Pikmin 4 emulated? Last time I checked you could play in 60fps but with lots of bugs.
Look almost as good as 3
Best content of the 4
Adding some challenge maps inside the story was a great idea
Oatchi is just way too strong and ruins the game, because you just ignore your pikmins and only/mostly use oatchi to deal with the various hazards
Overall I'd still say it's one of the best pikmin game
Post Olimar's dumper
>surface enemies don't respawn
>but underground enemies do
unironically what did they mean by this
well
y'see
shut up
Neat
It's the usual kino
Lot of weird decisions, particularly with upgrades and onions. Oatchi makes too many things far too easy. Would have been nice to be able to disable auto-lock on.
But it's the fattest frick of a Pikmin game yet, and I still want more. More challenges, more battle arenas, another entire area with more castaways to save. Give me more, dammit.
Maybe I'll do a playthrough using Oatchi as little as possible, though I keep thinking how awful Man At Legs will be without the trumpet.
35h in and it's one of the most inspiring games I've played in recent years.
just unlocked the forest, and I haven't done olimar's shipwreck tale yet.
I'm on day 27.
wonder if I should save olimars shipwreck tale for after I finish the main story.
>35h
>day 27
how is this even possible? do you spend hours upon hours inside caves? by hour 35 i was in day 50
and i never end days early either
>its another night mission that summons LE SPOOKYPRAG
man maybe this shit would be scary if this wasn't the fourth time and i couldn't fricking nuke the thing instantly
the game feels very unplaytested, like they had 3 or 4 people all making mission content but they never talked to each other or played them all back to back
pure kino game
Just finished my 100% run in 33 days, plus 4 days for Shipwreck Tale.
I loved it and I hope Pikmin 5 comes soon.
Night missions were such a bad idea.
>Game has no time limit
>Still divided into days for no reason
>Only effect this has is to interrupt your play with cutscenes of flying back to base, loading screens, then fly back to where you just were and resuming what you were doing
It's a unit of measurement to show how efficient or inefficient you are.
You could have done that without the interruptions.
The average life expectancy is around 80 years yet you still organize your days.
Any yuzu gays figured out how to use motion controls to aim?
Great game. Not as good as the first two. Too easy. Lock on is objectively bad game design. It can actually interfere with gameplay. Stupid modern Earth setting. Dandori Challenges are the best part of the game. They should just release an entire game of Dandori Challenges and give us a level editor to make our own and share online. It would be the best thing they've made in years.
It was a lot of fun
Night missions are annoying though