i played it in like 2020 but for some reason my experience felt weirdly nostalgic
kinda like i was launched back to the 2000-2013s of the internet, even though undertale & its content looks a lot more modern than that
>but its message is muddled by focus on the ingame world and plight of its characters rather than the player
That's because the player doesn't actually matter and isn't a plot point.
>I know there are literally thousands of other games that will suck my dick but this one game putting the emphasis on other characters is wrong and should be changed
frick off bro
The player gets invited into Undertale by Asriel and to deltarune by Gaster. It appears you can't go to these worlds without someone calling for You first.
Literally the only time Sans gets pissed is when you kill Papyrus since he's the only character to flat out be unable to kill you and even lets you go if you lose enough, and if you do genocide which is not self defense in any shape way or form. You can literally kill everyone in your path and still get a neutral ending
What meme?
If you don't kill the ones trying to kill you then you are a lil beta b***h and a cuck.
Same applies for those who try to cut your path, get their throats cut open.
2 years ago
Anonymous
doubling down on it is not an appropriate response
speak like a human being and not a redditor
2 years ago
Anonymous
Malding larper
>le edgelord >at this point in the thread
wew
>aieeeeee noooo if you kill in self defence you are an edgelord nooooo
2 years ago
Anonymous
gpt Ganker bot?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Is this the newest cope when someone doesn't like something? Calling the other poster an AI bot?
Go away.
Make me, pacifistcuck
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Make me, pacifistcuck
How are you NOT an edgelord though?
Literally the only time Sans gets pissed is when you kill Papyrus since he's the only character to flat out be unable to kill you and even lets you go if you lose enough, and if you do genocide which is not self defense in any shape way or form. You can literally kill everyone in your path and still get a neutral ending
A lot more interesting than most games that are just playable Hollywood movies. You can’t make Undertale into a movie without missing the big twist of the story.
When the frick is it implied in Deltarune that you are Le bad?
Gaster wanted to give you a vessel of your own, but then he gets fricking interrupted by you-know-who and you get forced into Kris. He obviously does not like being controlled, but the game doesn't guilt trip you unless you enjoy freezing your childhood friends alive
I really like how Deltarune does it. In Undertale, you still were a kid in a cave full of monsters that attack you. In Deltarune, you fully know that you are killing Kris' childhood friends just because you can. The enemies you fight literally cannot die and they normally just get scared and flee if you hit them too much. You purposefully find a way to get around that, and you decide to freeze them all, just because you feel like it. You break the fricking game just to kill some darkners. It's a nice improvement and I wonder where Toby will take it.
It's a bit schitzo, but the person that interrupts Gaster during the vessel maker scene talks exactly like Chara in the jap translation. She is the only one that uses Kanji liberally in the jap version of UT and DR. Kanji is used pretty sparingly otherwise.
I really can't see it being Chara. I understand it SOUNDS like Chara but I can't see it actually being Chara. If I had to guess, that second person is actually Ralsei.
I kinda believe it is Chara, but I don't really see how she would fit into the story. Gaster is obvious. Entry 17 and the prophecy and all the meta experiment shit, but Le demon kid being there too seems kinda strange.
That's exactly why I can't see it being Chara. It would essentially spit in the face of Undertale. >genocide route is solely your responsibility and if you don't do it it doesn't happen >chara is dead and will only awaken and turn into what you see at the end of that route if you yourself become a killer >LMAO JUST KIDDING HERE'S LE EDGY DEMON KID GENOCIDE WAS CANON ALL ALONG EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T DO IT XD
I kinda believe it is Chara, but I don't really see how she would fit into the story. Gaster is obvious. Entry 17 and the prophecy and all the meta experiment shit, but Le demon kid being there too seems kinda strange.
hell naw but can you imagine? >getting close to the end >ralsei acting more and more aloof >just you and him alone >"By the time we're done here we'll of connected back up to Susie and the others >...hey Kris, can I show you something? I wasn't planning on letting the others know yet, but after we've done so much together, I feel like just HAVE to show you." >picrel
2 years ago
Anonymous
Considering he's literally Kris's red horns, it would work. He could just look like Kris but with makeup.
The first chapters kind of implicate your role as possessing kris, to the point where characters acknowledge she isn’t herself. And it’ll probably progress in more kinds of snowgrave-esque routes.
You guys think it’s more or less impactful that snowgrave is intricate and easy to miss, on one hand specifically going for it DOES sort of make you a bad person, but it also wrings you into these choices itself by making them available. OG genocide might be better on a simple but effective kind of principle.
>BRO THE GUY TALKING EXACTLY LIKE GASTER AND DIRECTLY QUOATING ENTRY 17 WHILE HIS LEITMOTIF PLAYS IN THE BACKROUND IS A HECKIN COINCIDENCE AAAAAAAA >HE WAS JUST LE EASTER EGG XD >LOL HIS THEME IS JUST 4 NOTES YOU CANT HECKIN SAY THAT IT IS HIS LEITMOTIF >SEAM SAYING HIS WORLDVIEW HAS GOTTEN DARKER, YET DARKER, AND SPAMTON'S COWORKERS SAYING THAT THERE WAS NOTHING BUT GARBAGE NOISE COMING FROM THE PHONE IS JUST A COINCIDENCE LOL >MUS_SMILE PLAYING NEAR THE BUNKER AND WHEN YOU USE THE PHONE IN A DARK WORLD IS A COINCIDENCE BROOOOO >THE BEGINNING BEING CALLED "GONER_MAKER" IN THE FILES IS A HECKIN COINCIDENCE BROOOO
>You break the fricking game
But you don't. Not really. It's an intended path in the game. I feel like everyone really hypes up this aspect of the game but it's ALL scripted. That's what worries me the most. It's obvious Ralsei is "aware" of the player, but he's not. He's a fricking fictional character. Undertale was so much neater about this shit.
I'd bet a lot of money I love Deltarune and Undertale more than you; Last Goodbye is my phone's ringtone, I complete a True Pacifist run of UT every year. It's very easy to immerse oneself in these games, but Deltarune hinges on the notion that the player is literally part of the game when they aren't. How you don't see what is wrong with this is beyond me.
>but Deltarune hinges on the notion that the player is literally part of the game when they aren't
It's easy to say that it's just a le scripted bideogame, but there is literally nothing wrong with this. (you) controlling Kris against his will, and all the themes of freedom in this game are genuinely interesting. I'm sorry you don't enjoy it
Being autistic about it is pointless. Try playing OneShot. No shit it's all scripted. It's still fun.
>(you) controlling Kris against his will
You're not controlling him against his will, you are playing a video game. Undertale completely sidesteps this in a neater way is my problem that you keep glossing over. I want to be convinced otherwise but all you're doing is shitposting at me.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The player being a part of the story was not a focus in Undertale. It is in Deltarune. If you just simplify it and say that it's le bideogame, there is no convincing you.
>You did not ACTUALLY murder all those monsters in the story. It's just a videogame >You did not ACTUALLY save all those monsters in the story. It's just a bideogame
no shit. That's why you immerse yourself in the game. Stop being a nerd about it
Play OneShot
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You did not ACTUALLY murder all those monsters in the story. It's just a videogame
I did murder all those monsters in Super Metroid. I did murder all those monsters in DKC. I did murder all those goombas in SMB. I did murder all those lurkers in Jak and Daxter. I did not possess Jak against his will and then Daxter keeps hinting at the fact that he knows that I exist. You're simplifying the issue. >You did not ACTUALLY save all those monsters in the story. It's just a bideogame
I did save those monsters in Undertale. I did not possess Frisk against his will.
>LOL DID YOU KNOW THAT HE.... ACKSCHUALLY DOESN'T TALK TO YOU AND IT'S A BIDEOGAME, DUMMY? XD
Why are you like this
There's nothing more to say if you're going to act like this. I genuinely think you lack the capacity to discuss this any further. >OneShot
Looks neat.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yes because Jak doesn't obviously appear distraught over you "controlling" him. It's not a plot point in that game. It is in Deltarune. The game literally starts as a Survey program for (you). It's easy to simplify everything and say that it is a videogame and you are not ACTUALLY controlling him, but it doesn't matter, because it is still a plot point. It really doesn't matter that you go "WELL ACKSCHUALLY IT'S NOT REAL I AM NOT ACKSCHUALLY CONTROLLING KRIS". I cannot fathom how why you are so autistic about something like this. It's just a cool story gimmick. I don't see how it is an issue.
>Looks neat
You probably won't enjoy it if you are so autistic about 4th wall breaks and meta shit
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I don't see how it is an issue.
I think you crystallized my issue with it. >yes because Jak doesn't obviously appear distraught over you "controlling" him
If Deltarune functioned like Undertale in that Kris didn't get all weird about the player "possessing" him and Ralsei stopped winking and nudging at the player that he knows we're there I'd enjoy the game a lot more. The pretense that these characters are "aware" of us is what galls me. Thank you anon. I knew something could be gleaned from this conversation. >You probably won't enjoy it
Metal Gear Solid 2 did it well in 2001 and I still enjoy that now because the game made no effort to imply Raiden was aware of our existence.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ralsei doesn't really mention you. He just "causes" a cutscene to play twice so he can talk to Kris in private. I get that this shit is not your cup of tea, but being autistic about it and going "IT'S A VIDEOGAME THO" is not productive
The extent of Kris getting weird is him screaming when Spamton fricking dies once his "strings" are cut. I think you get the metaphor. It's unfortunate you don't find it interesting.
2 years ago
Anonymous
nah ralsei has to know about the player
otherwise why would he tell kris to tell susie how to solve the puzzle when kris and susie are in separate cells?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ralsei 100% knows about the player, it explains how you can reciprocate Ralsei's fluffy uwu boi friendship so much and at the same time Kris's opinion on him is pretty neutral (friend themed t eas). And like you mention, intentional diversions to whatever Susie is doing while he talks to Kris As Himself and not You.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon Ralsei names the town after the name in the survey program, and he directs our focus I believe twice across chapters 1 and 2 to have private conversations with Kris that the player cannot hear. >It's unfortunate you don't find it interesting.
It would unironically all be worth it in the end if Kris uninstalls the game and deletes it from our harddrives.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Deltarune ends with Kris filling out the steam refund form for Deltarune and uninstalling it from your library
2 years ago
Anonymous
>refund is rejected automatically because you've played for longer than the refund window >reinstall the game >kris REEEEEEEEEs and alt-F4s the game
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The reason why there's three save files is so that when you keep trying to open the Game Kris changes the names on them to
EAT
A
DICK
2 years ago
Anonymous
Still fricking wondering where that gay fricking goat got our name
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Still fricking wondering where that gay fricking goat got our name
See
You also forgot
Ralsei is based on a dead kid, and Toby Fox apparently only made Undertale to "see if he could", and released the first Deltarune Demo after he (the kid) died.
Gaster told him after he was shattered across Time and Space to Deltarune after the ritual from Toby's dream was complete
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not him but you're clearly ignoring the whole metanarrative thing UT and DT have going on.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This. Both of the games are very connected. Deltarune was thought up before Undertale. UT has sneak peeks for Deltarune like Gaster and entry 17
>but there is literally nothing wrong with this
And there is a lot wrong with this when shit like this > It's obvious Ralsei is "aware" of the player, but he's not. He's a fricking fictional character
Is going to be a big plot point. I can already see the part in chapter 5 or whatever when he addresses the player directly and everyone is going to be like >WHOAAAA HE'S TALKING TO ME WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUCK
like a bunch of morons.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>LOL DID YOU KNOW THAT HE.... ACKSCHUALLY DOESN'T TALK TO YOU AND IT'S A BIDEOGAME, DUMMY? XD
>Deltarune is trademarked by "Royal Sciences LLC" >Gaster may be partially inspired by a mistranslated character from Mother 1 >The Deltarune website had the prophecy and Entry 17 written out in wingdings all the way back in 2015 >If you name yourself Kris, Gaster tells you that you are about to meet somebody very, very wonderful, instead of "An interesting coincidence" like if you name the vessel Kris >The ending of Deltarune appeared to Toby in a fever dream. He has been dedicating his entire life for over 10 years to making a game around that ending
>>If you name yourself Kris, Gaster tells you that you are about to meet somebody very, very wonderful, instead of "An interesting coincidence" like if you name the vessel Kris
This also applies to Susie and Noelle, confirming that Noelle is protagonist tier and that we probably won't have other party members, just Noelle. >>The Deltarune website had the prophecy and Entry 17 written out in wingdings all the way back in 2015
And the only other person to specifically recite the prophecy, Angel's Heaven line included (which is what was in wingdings) is Ralsei.
>Noelle is protagonist tier and that we probably won't have other party members, just Noelle.
I do hope so. Putting the effort into mindbreaking her misses the point if she just fricks off for the rest of the game.
There is a mistranslated character in Mother 1 called the Forgotten Man of Magicant, whose whole shtick is that he is forgotten and doesn't exist. In the jap version, he comes off as a tough guy, but in the eng version, he comes off as pathetic and depressing.
Toby talked about him in some recent Nintendo Life video about Mother
You also forgot
Ralsei is based on a dead kid, and Toby Fox apparently only made Undertale to "see if he could", and released the first Deltarune Demo after he (the kid) died.
Bonus: >On a fresh installation before Chapter 1 is ever completed, the save file screen's prompts for copying/deleting files are narrated by Gaster and there are special responses for performing certain actions; copying a save file until all 3 files are identical has him say "PREPARATIONS ARE COMPLETE," threatening to delete a save file 10 times will have him say "VERY INTERESTING." >Gaster's theme in the sound test room is mus_st_him, the official name for the vessel creation theme is "ANOTHER HIM" >Various assets relating to Gaster in Deltarune use different prefixes for names (sprites use IMAGE_ instead of spr_, music uses AUDIO_ instead of mus_, etc), this applies to everything in the Vessel creation sequence, but also pic related in Queen's basement.
I think the most fun part of the games are how far you can push them into schizo playground rumor bullshit. The weird route being unlocked via doing some creepypasta tier shit in chapter 2 was a fun time to be around.
Can't wait to turn Undyne into fried fish with Toriel in Chapter 3.
>people didn't believe snowgrave was a thing even when a video was posted of the titular scene
I can't wait to see what gets called fake in the future chapters. I hope it goes batshit insane.
Unfortunately, everything will get datamined this time around like 5 minutes after the game releases. I will probably have to shut off my internet for a few days when ch3-5 come out
we will never ever have threads like the live chapter 2 ones again
when 3-5 release as a block, people will immediately start speedrunning 4 and 5 to try and spoil the people playing the chapters in order before we even have a chance to get there ourselves
I've missed both secret bosses on both chapters first playthrough, and I'm going to miss ch3-5 bosses as well (and there could be more than one per chapter)
I can't even blame people for thinking It's fake, honestly.
>Hey anon, did you know that when you get Noelle in your party, if you backtrack to the garbage dump, then freeze every enemy you find on the way, you can freeze one of the NPCs, get a special ring and freeze Berdly? And then you get to fight the superboss by yourself at the very end after skipping the Queen battles, since Berdly is dead and Spamton take over the castle. Also Noelle comes back during the fight and one shot the superboss. >No, I can't show you, I ran out of save slots so I could do th egg quest.
* HELLO, MRS. KRIS' MOTHER AND MY MOTHER IN LAW!
* Just letting the little SUPERHERO know YOUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER!
* Kris is mine, MINE!!!
* Pee-YEW! Banana oil, that smell AIN'T swell! WHAT IS THIS, FRIED FISH?
* WHAT YA DOIN', MRS. KRIS' MOTHER? FIRING THE FLOWER, HUH?
* WELL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!! You'll end up FIRED from THE SHOW like a LITTLE CREEP!
- - -
* Huh?
* Kris!
* My child, thank the angel you are safe and sound! What a dream we had...look Kris, I'm sorry. I am so, so sorry.
* Seeing your brother grow and shine made me forget that you still need me...especially after trying to play superhero, haha, Tombflame, with...that weird flower...
*...and the local cop.
* Kris, you should have told me when you get hurt, okay?
* I don't want it to get to the point where I must hurt others.
How the frick would you even find the Weird Route without datamining?
Just stumble upon by specifically trying a bunch of different shit trying to see what works?
alright, I've not checked all of them. But the picture I had was posted on the game development /vg/ page, and I think it was before/same time as the CH1 datamining. I think this link was it, if it still works
Yeah, really this is the worst of the situation.
People probably won't even have money to purchase Deltarune if it takes too long to come out, since the Democrat party likely sees the writing on the walls and is desperately trying to destroy the country before their party finally implodes
>one character knows that the player is perfectly capable of reloading their SAVE whenever they kill something >this character judges the player for killing anything because they know that the player is a god with no reason to fear death >every other character in the game is perfectly willing to forgive the player for killing even their friends in what is clearly self-defence >brainlets sperg out and claim that the game thinks self-defence is bad
I worry about Deltarune because it's really leaning into the player being involved in the story in ways Undertale never touched on. All the stuff about how the game is reacting to player input i.e. Snowgrave, or Kris hanging out with Susie even though he never did, none of that matters because these are just scripted events. I really hope Toby has a point with all this.
The whole "can't kill even if you try" and "can't level even if you try" paired with "recruiting doesn't ad up to anything" also has me somewhat concerned for the game's meta-value in the long run, but I stick around for the adorable goofy characters.
>shill your game on Ganker >invite your homosuck buttbuddies from tumblr to astroturf in the threads >know the jig will be up eventually once people realize what's going on >say "people like it now but they'll start hating it soon!" in an attempt to get ahead of being exposed
This seems to be a pattern with Toby.
Toby Fox plagiarizes art, music and even story beats from other games
When is he going to be fired and unpersoned from the gaming industry?
>I'm the victim!!
The point was never that defending yourself is bad as such. But opne of the points is that killing in self-defense isn't a desirable outcome for anyone.
If you actually kill someone, you don't know what their intention would hae been if YOU were at the brink of death. It's an unreasonable act of self defense to kill someone.
>But opne of the points is that killing in self-defense isn't a desirable outcome for anyone.
It is for the person who defended themselves.
Sure. If you're satisfied with an ending to a video game about making friends, where you don't get to make friends with everyone, because some of them are dead, then it's perfectly desirable.
>Falls down a hole >First person they meet tries to gaslight and kill them. >Only to get "rescued" by some schizophrenic goat wanting to keep you in house arrest to sate her maternal desires >Everyone thereafter wants to kill you and take your soul
Nah totally not a victim and the monsters aren't just naturally violent psychos who were imprisoned underground for good reason.
And they attack you because they want to leave the dark underground and bask in the son
You saying you wouldn’t kill one child for the hood of your people?
And the game isn’t saying you are
Neutral endings are the endings most people get because they get sick of dodging
Depending on who you kill, sans will act accordingly
Why wouldn’t he be mad that you killed his brother or a long time friend when you had the option to put maneuver them?
It's a video game. The whole thing is an analogy for how other people may seem to be a living a life that conflicts with yours. It may seem as if they're try to harm you or your values.
You can still decide to look for the best in others, even when they appear hostile at first.
We are all capable of mistakes, but if no-one breaks the cycle of the emotional arms race, we will all keep making ourselves harder to the world, and ultimately be less satisfied with life than we could have been.
That’s why it’s a fictional story that shouldn’t be applied in real life
That’s why the soul only exists in fiction
2 years ago
Anonymous
If a story only works in such an unrealistic and contrived scenario then it's a shit story.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>NOOOO IT HAS TO BE LE REALISTIC >NOOOOOOOO IF IT CAN'T BE APPLIED TO REAL LIFE IT'S LE BAD
why are pseuds like this
2 years ago
Anonymous
If a story works then it was a good story
Which this one does
You the kind of homosexual who gets mad because the message of Ulysses didn’t help you in real life?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>every science fiction story is shit >every fantasy story is shit >every animal fable is shit >every story about fictional people making irrational but morally poignant decisions is shit
What stories do you like?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>every science fiction story is shit >every fantasy story is shit >every animal fable is shit >every story about fictional people making irrational but morally poignant decisions is shit
Good luck with literally killing him in self-defense and convincing yourself that everyone is best off that way.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Europoor fingers typed this post.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm sorry we don't have as many junkies that need to resort to violent crime as you do, anon.
I hope you get to "clean up the streets" of your neighbourhood sometime and look super awesome while doing it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Slave bike cuck morality
I'm a little sad about being murdered but that guy was probably really happy to get his fix so overall there is more happiness in the world. I'm a good person.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nobody ever talked about letting yourself get murdered.
Not even inside the game Undertale is it an option to let yourself get murdered if you want to win the game.
The mentality og kill or be killed as the only options is exactly what the game seeks to work against.
>WAAAH WAAAH EVERYONE IS JUNKIE!!!
Ever heard of that term that we call "nuance"? Why do I have to teach that basic shit to you like you are a preschool toddler. Not every hostile person is a junkie strawman trying to shank you. Loosen that tinfoil hat and touch grass.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Bad people don't exist we can all just hold hands and get along!
Why are tumblurinas so sheltered?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>monsters >people
2 years ago
Anonymous
The game literally argues the opposite.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Jump to extremes like a paranoid schizo again.
ngmi
You don't know if they really wanted to kill you when you yourself didn't die.
Assuming the worst from others is what creates a colder, harsher world for everyone.
I already play dungeons and dragons.
Not everything I come across tries to kill me on sight, not even the fricking frost giants we encountered while hunting tried to kill the party on sight, and in fact we traded with them.
If your npc goes for the kill, so will I.
They really don't.
You don't see Undyne running around killing everyone
You don't see Toriel running around killing everyone.
The only one you see doing that is Flowey, who also has the ability to save and reset.
Who, curiously has a whole plan gather all the souls of all the monsters in the underground and the human souls. Which culminates in admitting he doesn't care about killing you anymore, opening the barrier and choosing to the best of his ability to not interact with the world anymore of his own volition.
Weird isn't it?
>Undyne is trying to kill or capture you >Toriel is so desperate to live out her fantasy she attempts to kill you
i was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with undyne but if you unironically think toriel tries to kill you at any point you are legitimately moronic
>You don't see Undyne running around killing everyone
No you see her trying to kill a child. Which even genocide route treats as a action too horrible to even allow you to follow through with.
>BEING AN butthole GOOD I AM TOTALLY SECURE ABOUT MY VALUES AND ACTIONS THAT'S WHY I HAVE A MELTDOWN EVERYTIME PEOPLE I DON'T KNOW CALL OUT MY BULLSHIT!
I can do this tok.
They can't kill you. They can't even hurt you since you are not kris. Saving/loading is a canonical, in-universe ability that you have. Enemies can only make you fail and lose a couple minutes of progress.
>monsters swung first >humans waged war on monsters, massacred the vast majority of their population and trapped them underground thousands of years before the game takes place
sure thing buddy
When you remember the humans started the war, which was apparently so brutal that Gerson's a war hero for just surviving, killing seven kids who won't be missed seems pretty fair.
>When you remember the humans started the war
That assumes you believe those tablets which is easily a case of war being written by the losers. Given the monsters reaction to meeting a human as seen in the game it might have been more complicated than "they fear if we absorb a soul!".
Actually, you need about 70 kills by the middle of the game for characters to be scared of you and call you evil. It's impossible to rack up that many kills by that point unless you're actively trying to clear the zones of monsters
tldr: You are evil
It is, however, only your perception of things that they're attacking you.
Most of them are just doing what they normally do, and then you happen to come by.
Very few have attack patterns where the bullets specifically target you, rather than move in a standard pattern.
>I'm just gonna run at you wildly flailing this knife >Oh no, I'm not actually trying to stab you! I always run in this direction swinging it. >But if you do happen to get sliced up that's your fault so don't you dare try to protect yourself.
Doesn't matter anyway because the anon still has a point.
Come on, are you really going to pretend "it's only your perception that they're attacking you" as a valid argument? Is it also only your perception that you take damage?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You could always read the post again and consider whether your question even makes sense.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Froggit is completely unaware. Shyren is just singing. Vulkin thinks it's helping. Jerry literally does not attack.
I can keep going.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That doesn't account for every monster, not to mention that it's pretty vague when a monster literally isn't trying to fight or when it is and has an unusual methods of attacking you.
You could always read the post again and consider whether your question even makes sense.
>It is, however, only your perception of things that they're attacking you.
That was the post. Do you think this was a valid argument to begin with?
>because the anon still has a point
I just want you to know that even when you're trolling epic-style this is the most flamingly obvious samehomosexualry you could possibly attempt
I just want you to know that you are objectively wrong and making a fool of yourself.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes Anonymous poster who is not the same person, it is not the same person continuing somebody else's argument using the same vocabulary choices, the same stubborn responding to every post, and the same general line of thinking, all of which you as a based and redpilled individual have come to on your own and completely separate train of logic
Your next line will be "take your meds"
2 years ago
Anonymous
> the same stubborn responding to every post
Just checked through the reply chain and my post was literally the first time to fricking do that so you aren't even right about that lmao. >Your next line will be "take your meds"
At least you're self-aware.
>that doesn't account for every monster
Now we're getting nuanced? Then what's the problem? "The game" (by which you people mean Sans) does not insult you when you kill some monsters. The only instances in which it gets directly hostile with you is when you kill Papyrus.
>Now we're getting nuanced?
I'm always nuanced on this. I actually like undertale/deltarune for crying out loud. All I'm here to argue is that "it's only from your perspective you're being attacked" makes for a really shitty argument.
Even in the instance where the monster 100% isn't aware of the damage they are doing. The fact they apparently unknowingly attack by nature has its own implications to consider.
>Do you think this was a valid argument to begin with?
They make an entire fricking point of this several times over in the game.
So yes. I think it's pretty valid.
"It's only from your perspective that you're being attacked" is a shit argument because you're literally getting hurt by them. Dunno how many time I need to say that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>"It's only from your perspective that you're being attacked" is a shit argument because you're literally getting hurt by them
And you can defuse the situation without killing them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you acknowledging that It's only from your perspective that you're being attacked" is a shit argument?
2 years ago
Anonymous
That is not an argument, it's just a statement. There is nothing being argued there unless you believe a statement of fact to be an argument.
Expand the sentence to encompass the actual "argument" before we proceed.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Here was the full post:
It is, however, only your perception of things that they're attacking you.
Most of them are just doing what they normally do, and then you happen to come by.
Very few have attack patterns where the bullets specifically target you, rather than move in a standard pattern.
Honestly this seem like a daft hill to die on here. Claiming it's "only your perspective" when you're literally getting damaged seems dumb.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You seem hung up on semantics. They do not see themselves as attacking you because they are doing mundane actions that they do with each other all the time. This means it is unjustified to kill them in "self-defense" rather than get them to stop attacking you. Do you agree with this premise, REGARDLESS of the semantics of the word "attack"?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You literally get damaged by lots and lots of things in real life that never intended to hurt you.
The post even explains how this is portrayed in the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Thing "attacking" you doesn't have any frame of reference that what they're doing is harming you
This is still a correct observation.
It'd be like stabbing a big man with a nail in his cartoid artery because he was holding your hand too hard and you said nothing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>and you said nothing
Funny enough the game never gives you the option to just SAY "these things you are doing are hurting me, please stop".
Actually that's a good question. If all these monsters really are all just attacking you on a misunderstanding, why wasn't just saying that an option?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If all these monsters really are all just attacking you on a misunderstanding, why wasn't just saying that an option? *ACT
2 years ago
Anonymous
...that's what acting and sparing is for
but you're just gonna b***h that you're not literally talking to them or something, I assume
Yeah you pacify them through some vague and abstract actions. Which would make sense if we work on the idea that the monsters AREN'T just doing shit not knowing they hurt you. But this clearly has a much simpler solution to use that should work every time if they really did not know which is to just fricking tell them.
Let's put it like this. If the monster, on attacking you, were told "don't do that, it hurts me" continued to do it anyway, wouldn't that put them in a pretty bad light?
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's not fun, though, you're missing the point of it being a video game.
"What is the Underground's tax policy?" is on the same tier of questioning, or the old example of "why didn't they just fly the eagles into Mordor".
2 years ago
Anonymous
Also it would make the game REALLY, REALLY boring if acting was entirely reduced to a button that makes them stop attacking you, but I don't think anyone whinging about undertale is willing to actually acknowledge how shit that would be
It's on toby to come up with a writing for this story that fits the fun gameplay. If you want to chalk this up to nitpicking then fine. My position is already that the games is good but have writing that can be picked apart. But this is a fair criticism, especially since this seems to be one of the things Toby did address with Deltarune.
Froggit cannot understand what you say.
Whimsun runs away before you utter a word.
Snowdrake would probably get annoyed that you're interrupting its jokes.
Tsunderplane would think you're flirting with it.
etc.
In other words a lot of the monsters with a good reason are the less dangerous ones while some come across as being shitty for being so self-absorbed while also being dangerous as a result.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's on toby to come up with a writing for this story that fits the fun gameplay.
homie, how is "Don't make gameplay at me" compelling
2 years ago
Anonymous
Also it would make the game REALLY, REALLY boring if acting was entirely reduced to a button that makes them stop attacking you, but I don't think anyone whinging about undertale is willing to actually acknowledge how shit that would be
2 years ago
Anonymous
Froggit cannot understand what you say.
Whimsun runs away before you utter a word.
Snowdrake would probably get annoyed that you're interrupting its jokes.
Tsunderplane would think you're flirting with it.
etc.
2 years ago
Anonymous
...that's what acting and sparing is for
but you're just gonna b***h that you're not literally talking to them or something, I assume
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Your next line will be "take your meds" >At least you're self-aware.
that was the fricking weakest twitter clap-back i've ever seen
2 years ago
Anonymous
>is a shit argument because you're literally getting hurt by them. Dunno how many time I need to say that.
You can say it as many times are you want to without ever being right.
You get hurt by flying into a windmill blade on your awesome air scooter too, but that doesn't change the fact that the windmill was just doing its thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>that doesn't account for every monster
Now we're getting nuanced? Then what's the problem? "The game" (by which you people mean Sans) does not insult you when you kill some monsters. The only instances in which it gets directly hostile with you is when you kill Papyrus.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Do you think this was a valid argument to begin with?
They make an entire fricking point of this several times over in the game.
So yes. I think it's pretty valid.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>because the anon still has a point
I just want you to know that even when you're trolling epic-style this is the most flamingly obvious samehomosexualry you could possibly attempt
Genuine question:
Why is it that literally every time we have these threads, we know at best a few things >People whining about Undertale calling you a monster have likely not played the game >Considering they get assflummoxed by a game calling them a doodoo head for murdering LITERALLY EVERYONE likely don't have the will power to actually sit down and grind out a Genocide run >The game has multiple end "Rankings" that cover accidentally killing people or killing in self defense
Do we continue to pretend the same tired old bait is at all legitimate? >inb4 some assmad moron replies to this with Spec Ops because he thinks people will think he's really clever for posting an actual shitty preachy game
Because it's the same people every time. Most passerbys do not stick around on lengthy conversations. Most threads are made by the same people. Most arguments are perpetuated by the same people. Most talking points are posted by the same people. There's always new bystanders but the actors are always the same.
>Do we continue to pretend the same tired old bait is at all legitimate?
I tend to find pointing out the implications of the monsters attacking a child on impulse serves as good justification for locking them all up serves as a strong argument.
Why do you care about the bonus evil route calling you evil if you deliberately chose to do the evil route?
That's not criticizing you, that's being thematically appropriate.
The characters talk to you that way because you are killing them and destroying their lives
The game doesn’t tell you to stop
No you aren't.
Your player persona is asked to consider whether it's a meaningful use of your time to literally murder everyone you can find, in order to upset even those most willing to accept your flaws.
But you as a human being playing a videogame are rewarded for playing with the toughest and craziest battles designed for the game.
>then you basically are criticised for playing
By the characters. I'm fine with that. It's an evil route, characters can call me evil all they want.
No, the characters are not a mouthpiece for the developer and I will not listen to you argue otherwise.
Ok but we've established it's not an argument to say genocide route was a choice if you're of the attitude that you want to explore all the game has to offer?
Funnily enough trying to guilt you into not playing anymore happens most explicitly in the pacifist route anyway.
Also I think denying characters sometimes get used as mouthpieces is short-sighted.
You can choose to play it. The characters will get angry you are killing their friends. There is nothing wrong with this. This will never be "the game" or "the dev" attacking you directly.
>Ok but we've established it's not an argument to say genocide route was a choice if you're of the attitude that you want to explore all the game has to offer? >Choosing to play the genocide route is not choosing to play the genocide route because I'll shit myself and cry when I watch it on youtube
okey
No you aren't.
Your player persona is asked to consider whether it's a meaningful use of your time to literally murder everyone you can find, in order to upset even those most willing to accept your flaws.
But you as a human being playing a videogame are rewarded for playing with the toughest and craziest battles designed for the game.
>then you basically are criticised for playing
By the characters. I'm fine with that. It's an evil route, characters can call me evil all they want.
No, the characters are not a mouthpiece for the developer and I will not listen to you argue otherwise.
>play rpg (role-playing game) >role-play as an evil character in this game >characters in game respond to your evil-acting character as though they are acting evil
>game proceeds to get meta and have characters acknowledge game mechanics such as saving, using that as part of their criticism
At that point it becomes fair game to consider it criticism of how you treat it as a game, because the characters are looking at you from the same standpoint.
Anon, they aren't people. They are characters in a video game. The only difference is that instead of role-playing as the character you fight/interact wit you are roleplaying as the entity possessing the character and saving/loading. I can assure you there is no point where Toby Fox jumps out of your monitor and slaps you for daring to play a part of the game he spent time and effort developing. Its just characters in a game responding to the actions of the character you are role-playing as.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>then you basically are criticised for playing
By the characters. I'm fine with that. It's an evil route, characters can call me evil all they want.
No, the characters are not a mouthpiece for the developer and I will not listen to you argue otherwise.
>play rpg (role-playing game) >role-play as an evil character in this game >characters in game respond to your evil-acting character as though they are acting evil
DUDE WHAT THE FRICK THIS GAME IS TRASH
But as
When the frick is it implied in Deltarune that you are Le bad?
Gaster wanted to give you a vessel of your own, but then he gets fricking interrupted by you-know-who and you get forced into Kris. He obviously does not like being controlled, but the game doesn't guilt trip you unless you enjoy freezing your childhood friends alive
I really like how Deltarune does it. In Undertale, you still were a kid in a cave full of monsters that attack you. In Deltarune, you fully know that you are killing Kris' childhood friends just because you can. The enemies you fight literally cannot die and they normally just get scared and flee if you hit them too much. You purposefully find a way to get around that, and you decide to freeze them all, just because you feel like it. You break the fricking game just to kill some darkners. It's a nice improvement and I wonder where Toby will take it.
says, the players gets forced into Kris, meaning Toby is using those two characters to talk directly to the player, rather than a character the player is controlling
flowey and sans are the only meta-aware characters in undertale, and sans is the one of the two that reveals he's meta-aware when you've decided to play evil because you're about to destroy the world
no, the characters aren't looking at you from the same standpoint, *a* character is looking at you from the same standpoint
2 years ago
Anonymous
I never said I was exclusively looking at what happens during genocide route.
Anon, they aren't people. They are characters in a video game. The only difference is that instead of role-playing as the character you fight/interact wit you are roleplaying as the entity possessing the character and saving/loading. I can assure you there is no point where Toby Fox jumps out of your monitor and slaps you for daring to play a part of the game he spent time and effort developing. Its just characters in a game responding to the actions of the character you are role-playing as.
>I can assure you there is no point where Toby Fox jumps out of your monitor and slaps you for daring to play a part of the game he spent time and effort developing.
Do you think Toby personally disagrees with what his characters say to you on this? If not, then what was the point of arguing the toss on this?
2 years ago
Anonymous
i wasn't talking exclusively about genocide route either, flowey is meta-aware regardless of route since he's the only DT loaded thing in the underground that isn't a monstrosity
if you want to argue deltarune then the only explicitly meta-aware characters directly shown so far are jevil, spamton, ralsei, and kris himself, and ralsei is mainly through hints like pushing you off to susie to see what she's doing and in dialogue with the puzzle pieces that teach you about battle
2 years ago
Anonymous
Right so if we include stuff outside genocide then that also includes flowey trying to guilt you into not restarting the game at the end of pacifist.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Flowey trying to guilt
And why do you care? He's the villain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This was after he became good.
>Do you think Toby personally disagrees with what his characters say to you on this? If not, then what was the point of arguing the toss on this?
I'm sure if an otherworldly entity with saving/loading powers started genociding people Toby and most human beings would react in a negative way similar to the way the characters in the story react.
However, that is not happening. You are playing a video game anon. The characters are not real. It is for fun. They are simply reacting the way people might react if something like this actually happened. Take your pills anon.
>You are playing a video game anon. The characters are not real. It is for fun. They are simply reacting the way people might react if something like this actually happened.
We're back to
>game proceeds to get meta and have characters acknowledge game mechanics such as saving, using that as part of their criticism
At that point it becomes fair game to consider it criticism of how you treat it as a game, because the characters are looking at you from the same standpoint.
Toby intentionally made a game that used meta-narratives to question your behaviour treating the game as a game. Either you think that toby wrote his characters criticising you while personally not thinking those are valid criticisms, or there was no point to attempting to distinguish them to begin with.
He believes he's talking with Chara, not you.
We're back to
>game proceeds to get meta and have characters acknowledge game mechanics such as saving, using that as part of their criticism
At that point it becomes fair game to consider it criticism of how you treat it as a game, because the characters are looking at you from the same standpoint.
Why do you think the game tries to trick you into giving chara your own name at the start?
2 years ago
Anonymous
flowey can eat my shit, he's a parasite
2 years ago
Anonymous
He believes he's talking with Chara, not you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He figures out pretty quickly that you aren't Chara considering the Chara he knew would never do a pacifist run. There's also the fact that everyone for some reason ignores his dialog that mentions that Chara is long gone.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Chara he knew would never do a pacifist run
That's exactly why he believes he's talking with Chara. Which is why, once again, he says his final goodbye to "Chara" instead of "Frisk" or "You". Hell, he even says that he believes Chara has already heard that whole speech a thousand times already.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. He thinks you were Chara the whole time
The player gets invited into Undertale by Asriel and to deltarune by Gaster. It appears you can't go to these worlds without someone calling for You first.
and realizes that You and Frisk weren't Chara once his boss fight is over with. Doing anything but the genocide route is basically being ooc to him and he thinks you're dicking around with him. He says as much on an aborted genocide route and thinks You'll reset which I would also like to add is an ability Chara never had before unless you give them your soul and if they did have it, would've been an amazing time to use it not have Asriel die.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Do you think Toby personally disagrees with what his characters say to you on this? If not, then what was the point of arguing the toss on this?
I'm sure if an otherworldly entity with saving/loading powers started genociding people Toby and most human beings would react in a negative way similar to the way the characters in the story react.
However, that is not happening. You are playing a video game anon. The characters are not real. It is for fun. They are simply reacting the way people might react if something like this actually happened. Take your pills anon.
Your reminder that the only callouts happen during the fight with Sans or if you kill Papyrus.
Either way, you get what you deserve.
And before OP says it, no, Papyrus will not kill you.
To be fair you don't know papyrus doesn't kill you until he actually depletes your health. If you're playing honestly you're not going to allow him to deplete your health to find that out.
Unless the main route does what genocide does and literally has a point where papyrus shows that he doesn't intend to kill you then the player working on the assumption he does is reasonable.
You can only kill him after he has stopped attacking. You literally cannot kill him in the heat of battle, it has to be a conscious decision to execute him after he is no longer fighting.
He engages the fight by saying he's going to capture you, and all the fantasies about capturing you would lead him to, and him being sad that he won't be able to see you anymore, upon being "defeated" he just puts you in a room that locks from the inside and waits because he can't bring himself to tell Undyne.
I'm pretty sure if you manage to lose to Papyrus enough he just lets you go.
>you only get "PLAYER IS... LE BAD" from the game when you've been so astronomically autistic that you've chosen to kill literally everything the game has for you to kill
Boring ass game >Hurr durr don't kill anyone do this boring thing over and over >Hurr durr kill everyone do this boring thing over and over
The pope didn't deserve this
Whether it's justified or not is a moot point. Killing or showing mercy is up to you. It's only when you go out of your way to depopulate the underground when you officially cross the line.
Also, as mentioned before, killing Papyrus is an actual sin.
The stupid shitty dog says that you aren't a bad person for this, but that Kris never solicited help and you are definitively controlling him, so it's not really him getting his life back on track even if there's lots of direct net benefits for him
There's times where Kris is extremely receptive to your input (telling Queen you'd rather die gets a 10/10 reaction from him, sharing Alphys's dyke chocolates with Susie instead of giving them to Undyne) and times where he's downright baffled by your input or unreceptive (saying you'd go to a carnival with literally anyone but Susie)
I've played the game several times already. You can make assumptions but you have no idea what goes on in Kris's head. You can't just claim he 100% rejects all of you, maybe he wanted or needed you but doesn't want you to overstep, you don't know what's going on in there.
I think the extended screaming after the Spamtom fight was pretty definitive Kris wants us to stop.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Kris needs to MAN the frick up and face his fears, I'm not trying to kill this damn kid
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can have whatever opinion you want on Kris, but you can't expect him to be just fine with you taking control of his body, even if you're doing it for a "good" reason. Imagine that you want to help someone who's addicted to drugs, so you kidnap him and lock him up in a room until he overcomes withdrawal syndrome. You might be "helping" him, but he's clearly not gonna be happy with you taking away his freedom.
>You can make assumptions but you have no idea what goes on in Kris's head.
We have a pretty good idea of what goes on in Kris's head from flavor text, NPC dialogue describing Kris's actual personality that You Don't Fit and often don't have dialogue choices to actually represent, and statements from a couple characters like Noelle who are aware of You, The Player, that you're not the same people.
When left to his own devices Kris doesn't want frickin' ANYBODY in his body. His very first action in a secluded spot is to rip You, The Player out. Did you actually play this game? I don't think you did because you're trying to make this a point of vagueness when it's not.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon I've played the fricking game and discussed Kris's personality traits at length in previous threads. I know about the choices and how he reacts to them, I've probably pointed them out more times than anyone. Please stop with this moronic smug "you didn't play the game shit" if you're actually interested in arguing something.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well for someone who has played the game you sure don't have any fricking idea on what's actually happening in the story.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't care how many times you say you have when you've managed to make the first chapter's sting reveal and a consistent point in the second chapter into a point of vagueness when it's not vague at all.
Play the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do we even know for sure if that's actually Kris ripping YOU out of his body or if he's doing it under the influence of another third party? I for one don't but the "Kris is The Knight" theory where he's consciously creating the fountains on his own.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The fact that Kris is able to rip us out whenever he wants is proof that he does actually want or need us for our power and is willing to put up with our bullshit to get it. There's nothing forcing him to put us back in before the start of chapter 2, or after he washes his hands, he does that entirely on his own.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The fact that Kris is able to rip us out whenever he wants
We don't know if that's the real Kris though. He could be doing it under the influence of another power since I doubt the real Kris ever acted like a murderous psycho
2 years ago
Anonymous
real kris still isn't acting like a murderous psycho, he's just fricking with you when he looks at the camera and brandishes a knife, he literally runs off to go eat an entire pie
2 years ago
Anonymous
I guess the whole thing with creating fountains and slashing car tires was also just a ploy to frick with you then?
2 years ago
Anonymous
i don't think that's severe enough to qualify for "murderous psycho"
2 years ago
Anonymous
He's putting his adoptive mom in real danger by opening a fountain right inside their house. Not psychotic my ass.
2 years ago
Anonymous
sure if his mom's moronic and has absolutely no conception of self-defense, something that berdly figured out almost immediately and noelle had managed to completely avoid up to that point on her own
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's okay to put your mom in danger because she could PROBABLY defend herself
Real psycho mentality right there
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
I feel sorry for your parents
2 years ago
Anonymous
Honestly, maybe.
Kris sort of presents you, or the fountain to you at the end of Chapter 2, and you only really know about it as a conscious observer after everyone's asleep.
He thought power was the way to move up a plane of reality and become a real boy. It isn't, that's probably impossible for Darkners and it already takes some hefty reality fukkery to go DOWN a layer and mingle with the Darkners, but he tried. He's fundamentally a very selfish person who thinks any attempt to help him is also selfish and going to stab him in the back later, but how much of this is personal experience and how much of this is inherent distrust as a salesman is left vague. It takes cutting his strings to help him out while he's trying to kill you for the player soul to realize there's an altruistic choice being made for him.
I think every schizoboss was a vessel for Gaster's experiments at some point, making them the "protagonist", but at some point he just fricked off and they lost whatever bonus being the vessel gave them (saving?) got locked up (jevil) and forgotten about (spamton)
You don't get the genocide route if you kill everybody that stands in your way
The only way to get the genocide route is to autistically search more monsters to kill
Of course the game will tell that your actions are bad at this point because why wouldn't it?
But it reminds you along the way that you're making a conscious decision. That's the underlying message. As you keep drilling down on your path and you're always being told that you don't have to do this and the consequences are legitimate.
The central theme of the game is that you can't detach yourself as a player from what happens in the game world. It fully acknowledges you aren't in their world but are still affecting it.
He still is in the normal route, you're torn out of him at night so he can do whatever he wants to do. There's things Kris can do only when he's not under player influence. In the first one it was just leaving to eat all the pie, in the second he made a fountain.
It literally did. Oneshot shits on Undertale and Deltarune when it comes to fourth wall breaking because it's the entire premise of the game, rather than being a quirky thing shoehorned in to grab people's attention
In Chapter 1, in that one room where the star bird shoots at you, where you can also find Starwalker, there is a chance that you will enter a secret room if you exit to the left.
In Chapter 2, same thing but on the room right before the dumpster with the graffiti on the wall.
If you got the Chapter 1 egg, check the cars at the bottom near the beginning of Chapter 2, where Undyne is.
Why do tumblrgay tourists think their behavior and writing patterns aren't immediately noticeable as outsiders? They stick out like a sore thumb, literally no one talks about any topic on Ganker the way these morons talk about and defend Toby and his piddly games, and then they try to pretend that umm ackhsually, they're the oldgays and Ganker always loved furgay lolsorandom humor, it's so transparent it's hilarious
>that umm ackhsually, they're the oldgays and Ganker always loved furgay lolsorandom humor,
Because I have a bunch of material from when Undertale released that proves your revisionism wrong, and I'm pretty sure a lot of the Undertale threads from around that time are archived. Trying to cry that "Ganker HAET UNDERGAY" is pointless.
Everything that doesn't fit my metanarrative about what Ganker Was is a raid: a child's guide to ignoring Ganker archives when I've got a furious craving for penis
Next you're going to claim Ganker always loved horsefrickers because look, lots of people used to post colorful horse images here before the containment board was created, I have the proofs
This claim doesn't float since anyone that was back around since the demo is aware that unlike horsefricker spam back when it wasn't quarantined, the "people" that didn't like undertale was nigh exclusively a single fricking blisteringly assmad homosexual that blew $2000 on scat porn and got caught by being too specific about the shit he was paying for, and people checked with the artists.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The near entirety of the memes of Isabelle and Toriel has it's memetic lineage from that time period.
Tumblr's raids on Ganker were around 2010 and again at 2013-2014 in response to /misc/ trying to colonize them, this would have been at the time of the demo and Poopy Joe and not at the time of release
Unless you want to argue Tumblr's raiders became permanent residents for anywhere between one to five years just so they could psy-op Undertale into being a board favorite and pushing down the opinions of native anons, which is very funny
/misc/ homosexuals stayed here didn't they, tumblr homosexuals staying here is not the reach you're presenting it as especially since they were driven from tumblr with all the purges
And I never said they did it specifically for Undertale, just that most of the people sucking its wiener back then and right now are homosexual tourists and not in any way indicative of core Ganker opinions, otherwise I could hire shill farms to blow smoke up any game's ass here and claim that Ganker always loved them
This claim doesn't float since anyone that was back around since the demo is aware that unlike horsefricker spam back when it wasn't quarantined, the "people" that didn't like undertale was nigh exclusively a single fricking blisteringly assmad homosexual that blew $2000 on scat porn and got caught by being too specific about the shit he was paying for, and people checked with the artists.
I was literally here you moron, go gaslight your mom
I was also here homosexual, and I got booted from this website shortly after the game released.
Take a guess why.
Surely you remember why knower of things.
You were never around for Ganker's "Tumblr hate" period. Hating Tumblr is proof of that, /b/'s conclusion was that Tumblr and Ganker were both full of basement dwellers, so they should all frick eachother.
/misc/ homosexuals stayed here didn't they, tumblr homosexuals staying here is not the reach you're presenting it as especially since they were driven from tumblr with all the purges
And I never said they did it specifically for Undertale, just that most of the people sucking its wiener back then and right now are homosexual tourists and not in any way indicative of core Ganker opinions, otherwise I could hire shill farms to blow smoke up any game's ass here and claim that Ganker always loved them
[...]
I was literally here you moron, go gaslight your mom
>/misc/ homosexuals stayed here didn't they,
Tumblr has a neo-Nazi problem explicitly because of the /misc/ influx. They "stayed here" insofar as they're capable of using both websites. >especially since they were driven from tumblr with all the purges
They went to Twitter because of Tumblr's porn ban, they didn't come here. The extent of their activity here was to self-victimize, post the screencaps to Tumblr, and then accidentally expose themselves in doing it. >just that most of the people sucking its wiener back then and right now are homosexual tourists and not in any way indicative of core Ganker opinions,
Ganker isn't a hivemind, Black person.
>Ganker isn't a hivemind
That doesn't change the fact horsefrickers were nigh universally hated, just as normalgay "bro" shooters, just as brown and bloom AAA games, just as Nintendo kiddie shit, etc, and hating Tumblr shit, Homestuck shit, indie shit, and lolsorandom humor were all almost part of board culture, so when Toby's game came out and was "warmly received", it was obvious there was outside intervention involved.
>Nintendo kiddie shit,
*settle down Sony warrior >hating Tumblr shit,
*hating Tumblr neo-crystal gender warriors and getting ass-blastingly mad about red noses >Homestuck shit,
*hating Homestuck General and Homestuck's descent into shit, somebody doesn't remember Sburb threads that we still have if they're not banned on sight >indie shit,
*Phil Fish and the indie games conferences that tried to propel people like him to superstardom
this post makes me realize how many games actually started on Ganker and became huge, Honestly without this place many games such as Minecraft and DR even Undertale woudln't got the traction in the first place
Supposed to be a parody of forced shipping in the first game but Toby missed the mark and it ended up being the hamfisted romance it was parodying. Ironically Undyne is often compared to Vriska who's a similar "Mary Sue parody" that completely missed the mark, became Hussie's favorite, and turned into an unironic version of the thing he was complaining about. Mostly, this is because Hussie has no fricking idea of how to write anything beyond a "vibe" he's trying to represent.
i just got to the flower boss and gave up, tried only twice and decided to watch the ending on youtube, no way i'm learning 50 new minigame patterns what a chore
His good ending is getting True and then stopping.
For all intents and purposes, Asriel is dead. The only thing you can do to help is respect his wishes.
>character is dead by all rights for an unspecified but very long amount of time
hes still alive in flower form at least but making so hes the only one left in the mountain is like a punishment and feels bad man. I want to visit the flower
>its a missed one NPC so you have to restart from the very beginning episode
I want it out soon but also hope it takes longer so that I'm not behind when it comes out
I won't feel bad for butchering these psychotic critters. In fact, it is my duty as a human to conquer (with violence or wiener) every other living being I come across.
If God didn't wanted them to be slaughtered, they wouldn't be a bunch of crying sissies unable to fend for themselves.
>Be a Human in a world where Humans are enemies of Monsters >Monsters fight you because you're human >OP: "NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOOOU AREEN'T ALLOOOWWWED TOO DOOOOOOO THAAAAAT *screams and shits his pants while smashing his keyboard with his limp wrists*."
It does not. The game only mocks players who try to have their cake and eat it too by going back to a "happy ending" after proving that you don't concern yourself with the opinions of data. This convenient hypocrisy is mocked, not the player.
You are literally only called evil if you do the genocide route and kill a frick ton of monsters which is reasonable. Even if you just killed the royal guards that are pursing you, you are literally told how to deal with them without killing them by Undyne. sans basically spell it out for you if you kill Papyrus. The player automatically being evil in either game is lazy thinking because they're the source of the pacifist route in both games.
"G... GUESS SHE SHOULD HAVE WORKED MORE ON THE DEFENSES...
...
YOU MAY HAVE DEFEATED ME... BUT...
I KNOW. I CAN TELL FROM THAT STRIKE, DARLING.
YOU WERE HOLDING BACK.
YES, ASGORE WILL FALL EASILY TO YOU...
BUT YOU WON'T HARM HUMANITY, WILL YOU?
YOU AREN'T ABSOLUTELY EVIL.
IF YOU WERE TRYING TO BE, THEN YOU MESSED UP.
AND SO LATE INTO THE SHOW, TOO.
HA... HA. AT LEAST NOW, I CAN REST EASY.
KNOWING ALPHYS AND THE HUMANS WILL LIVE ON...!"-Mettaton Neo on a failed genocide run.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That is not "the game" calling you anything. That is Mettaton.
>LV >Oh dont worry thats just Level of Violence
It tells me how much of a scumbag you are >Exp? >Oh those are your execution points >I SEE YOU KILLED MANY CREATURES >YOU REALLY ARE A PIECE OF SHIT
holy shit kino why has no one ever done this before?
Toby fox does it again
>You are literally only called evil if you do the genocide route and kill a frick ton of monsters
No, even then the game does not make a judgement call upon you, the player. Sans thinks the anomaly is a bastard, sure, but that's his prerogative, owing to his limited senses.
The only entity that acknowledges the player is Chara, and Chara does not think you are evil for doing genocide.
You are called evil by several people in the underground because of your rampage. Like I said before, the player is the source of the pacifist and genocide route so it makes sense for the game to react appropriately depending on what you do in game. I don't know why this is hard to understand. Asriel and Chara acknowledges the player. Asriel obvously doesn't judge because he's basically a mirror to a completionist player which Toby DOES poke fun at with "Don't you have anything better to do?" You and Chara are basically partners in crime. I shouldn't have to tell why they're both evil because moral relativism can only be stretched for so long before its used to justify any action a person takes and their backstory does them no favors in that regards.
>You are called evil by several people in the underground because of your rampage
No you aren't.
Frisk is. Because as far as they can tell, Frisk is running around killing them with a knife.
None of these characters perceive you, so none of them can make judgement calls upon you.
Do you not understand that you are not Frisk? >You and Chara are basically partners in crime. I shouldn't have to tell why they're both evil
Chara isn't evil at all.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The perception really doesn't matter because at the end of the day, you're making that decision so you can't pin it squarely on Frisk. >Chara isn't evil at all
They only show up on the genocide route and wanted to use Asriel to kill people on the surfaces for whatever reason when Asgore EXPLICTLY told them that they and Asriel are the future of monsters and human because of their bond and that monsters were filled with hope of coexisting on the surface with humans. What is exactly evil to you?
yeah, i am gonna let my head get ripped apart, my torso torn by spears, boned to death, burned by volcanic fragments to death, zapped, eaten by spider pets etc etc
just because even tho I feel pain and fricking die i can go back to die again
after all, I am the bad guy if I don't get fricking killed right?
how did you know?
>yeah, i am gonna let my head get ripped apart, my torso torn by spears, boned to death, burned by volcanic fragments to death, zapped, eaten by spider pets etc etc
Wow, that happened to you?
What kind of computer do you have? It must be a pretty good one to stab you with spears.
That happened to Frisk, idiot. Not you. You're not Frisk.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lmao, literally spec ops the line arguments
good job zoomie
That's not forcing you to do anything. Tricking you, but not forcing. Inequivalent.
>No you're not forced to do bad thing >you're just tricked to do it, which unless you have played it before you're basically forced to do it
oh, alright
>If you had some sort of *special power*... isn't it your responsibility to do the right thing?
how about you don't go around shooting volcanic fragments to a kid?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>how about you don't go around shooting volcanic fragments to a kid?
but they do it to each other all the time and they're fine
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah, and I go around smacking people with books all the time and they dont die
2 years ago
Anonymous
>therefore, I an immortal time god, should kill anyone who hits me with a book, instead of showing them the error of their ways, which is easily doable in a minute or two
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Lmao, literally spec ops the line arguments
You can be moronic in two ways at once, who knew. >which unless you have played it before you're basically forced to do it
Or you can just not do it lmao
The perception really doesn't matter because at the end of the day, you're making that decision so you can't pin it squarely on Frisk. >Chara isn't evil at all
They only show up on the genocide route and wanted to use Asriel to kill people on the surfaces for whatever reason when Asgore EXPLICTLY told them that they and Asriel are the future of monsters and human because of their bond and that monsters were filled with hope of coexisting on the surface with humans. What is exactly evil to you?
>The perception really doesn't matter because at the end of the day, you're making that decision so you can't pin it squarely on Frisk.
Yes, but the characters in the story cannot perceive that. They thusly cannot accuse you of anything. >They only show up on the genocide route and wanted to use Asriel to kill people on the surfaces for whatever reason
Oh hey look at that "for whatever reason" that you decide to willfully ignore.
2 years ago
Anonymous
To be fair I never took a swing at Toriel so I wasn't really aware of it at the time. You don't have to kill Asgore but Flowey will murder him anyway. Flowey will basically mess with you regardless of what you do.
>Not to mention the fact that if you don't wanna fight toriel, you can just run away
which triggers special dialogue and a cutscene if you go to sleep telling you to fight her
yeah, totally not forced to do it.
>therefore, I an immortal time god, should kill anyone who hits me with a book, instead of showing them the error of their ways, which is easily doable in a minute or two
jesus and god did it, why can't I?
are they evil too?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>jesus and god did it, why can't I? >are they evil too?
If a being is All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Seeing, letting evil exist is an evil act.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>yeah, totally not forced to do it.
Indeed not. Continue to be moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Lmao, literally spec ops the line arguments
LMAO not an argument
alphoomer detected
The difference between Spec Ops and Undertale/Deltarune is that by playing Spec Ops, you are already doing the bad thing. In Undertale/Deltarune, you have to go out of your way to do evil and no, getting stuck with Kris and going through the game in the condition with them isn't evil no matter how much the fandom will say the "woe is Kris" shit without figuring out WHY this has happened.
>You're forced to do the bad thing
Yeah, let's casually not mention the fact Undertale asspulls the fact you kill toriel at half health just to get the shock reaction of flowey calling you a murderer. also the fact you have to kill asgore first run
To be fair I never took a swing at Toriel so I wasn't really aware of it at the time. You don't have to kill Asgore but Flowey will murder him anyway. Flowey will basically mess with you regardless of what you do.
the saddest thing about the neutral ending is, even if you "kill" flowey in a previous run (so he doesn't show up until the end), asgore will kill himself so you can leave and find a way to free the monsters without having to die
The difference between Spec Ops and Undertale/Deltarune is that by playing Spec Ops, you are already doing the bad thing. In Undertale/Deltarune, you have to go out of your way to do evil and no, getting stuck with Kris and going through the game in the condition with them isn't evil no matter how much the fandom will say the "woe is Kris" shit without figuring out WHY this has happened.
I miss playing undertake in 2015
i played it in like 2020 but for some reason my experience felt weirdly nostalgic
kinda like i was launched back to the 2000-2013s of the internet, even though undertale & its content looks a lot more modern than that
I bet you have extraordinarily bad taste in just about anything
>incredibly butthurt zoomer homosexual
not an argument
seethe zoomie
But it's accurate, isn't it? :^)
i liked the game, but its message is muddled by focus on the ingame world and plight of its characters rather than the player
>but its message is muddled by focus on the ingame world and plight of its characters rather than the player
That's because the player doesn't actually matter and isn't a plot point.
Literally what the frick are you talking about.
>I know there are literally thousands of other games that will suck my dick but this one game putting the emphasis on other characters is wrong and should be changed
frick off bro
You're an intruder on the world and shenanigans happen.
The player gets invited into Undertale by Asriel and to deltarune by Gaster. It appears you can't go to these worlds without someone calling for You first.
it's terribly written in terms of any actual substance. most people seem to equate le quircky and depressed characters with deep writing
we know you're on your phone homie
>act like a dick on purpose
>nooo why is the game saying I'm a dick
>NPCs are murderous dicks
>Clap back
>noooooo why is the player being a dick, self defence is mmmmmm LE BAD
>clap back
Cucks
"cuck" has been a meme for ten years
move on
What meme?
If you don't kill the ones trying to kill you then you are a lil beta b***h and a cuck.
Same applies for those who try to cut your path, get their throats cut open.
doubling down on it is not an appropriate response
speak like a human being and not a redditor
Malding larper
>aieeeeee noooo if you kill in self defence you are an edgelord nooooo
gpt Ganker bot?
Is this the newest cope when someone doesn't like something? Calling the other poster an AI bot?
Make me, pacifistcuck
>Make me, pacifistcuck
How are you NOT an edgelord though?
Go away.
>le edgelord
>at this point in the thread
wew
Imagine it like in the real world just walking through the streets of Detroit, frisk did nothing wrong
Literally the only time Sans gets pissed is when you kill Papyrus since he's the only character to flat out be unable to kill you and even lets you go if you lose enough, and if you do genocide which is not self defense in any shape way or form. You can literally kill everyone in your path and still get a neutral ending
>you will never be a resident of papyrus's shed of mystery
A lot more interesting than most games that are just playable Hollywood movies. You can’t make Undertale into a movie without missing the big twist of the story.
and most movies are just filmed plays
When the frick is it implied in Deltarune that you are Le bad?
Gaster wanted to give you a vessel of your own, but then he gets fricking interrupted by you-know-who and you get forced into Kris. He obviously does not like being controlled, but the game doesn't guilt trip you unless you enjoy freezing your childhood friends alive
I really like how Deltarune does it. In Undertale, you still were a kid in a cave full of monsters that attack you. In Deltarune, you fully know that you are killing Kris' childhood friends just because you can. The enemies you fight literally cannot die and they normally just get scared and flee if you hit them too much. You purposefully find a way to get around that, and you decide to freeze them all, just because you feel like it. You break the fricking game just to kill some darkners. It's a nice improvement and I wonder where Toby will take it.
>he gets fricking interrupted by you-know-who
I don't.
It's a bit schitzo, but the person that interrupts Gaster during the vessel maker scene talks exactly like Chara in the jap translation. She is the only one that uses Kanji liberally in the jap version of UT and DR. Kanji is used pretty sparingly otherwise.
people can't recognize her in english? no wonder people write all the characters terribly
I really can't see it being Chara. I understand it SOUNDS like Chara but I can't see it actually being Chara. If I had to guess, that second person is actually Ralsei.
I kinda believe it is Chara, but I don't really see how she would fit into the story. Gaster is obvious. Entry 17 and the prophecy and all the meta experiment shit, but Le demon kid being there too seems kinda strange.
That's exactly why I can't see it being Chara. It would essentially spit in the face of Undertale.
>genocide route is solely your responsibility and if you don't do it it doesn't happen
>chara is dead and will only awaken and turn into what you see at the end of that route if you yourself become a killer
>LMAO JUST KIDDING HERE'S LE EDGY DEMON KID GENOCIDE WAS CANON ALL ALONG EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T DO IT XD
ralsei is chara
>mfw
hell naw but can you imagine?
>getting close to the end
>ralsei acting more and more aloof
>just you and him alone
>"By the time we're done here we'll of connected back up to Susie and the others
>...hey Kris, can I show you something? I wasn't planning on letting the others know yet, but after we've done so much together, I feel like just HAVE to show you."
>picrel
Considering he's literally Kris's red horns, it would work. He could just look like Kris but with makeup.
>Chara
>she
>when Chara is literally called murderboi internally
Chara's a guy, just like the other two humans we control.
Chara is a girl.
Chara is a naughty and very edgy boi.
The first chapters kind of implicate your role as possessing kris, to the point where characters acknowledge she isn’t herself. And it’ll probably progress in more kinds of snowgrave-esque routes.
You guys think it’s more or less impactful that snowgrave is intricate and easy to miss, on one hand specifically going for it DOES sort of make you a bad person, but it also wrings you into these choices itself by making them available. OG genocide might be better on a simple but effective kind of principle.
>Gaster
Literally the first word of your summary and you've started making assumptions about shit we don't know.
Did you forget that originally we were specifically given the Deltarune Chapter 1 demo BY Gaster.
>more assumptions
>Game literally crashes when you name the vessel "Gaster"
>Noooooooo it's just an azumpshen!
>assuming I claimed gaster wasn't a character
more assumptions
>AZUMPSHOOONS!
>BRO THE GUY TALKING EXACTLY LIKE GASTER AND DIRECTLY QUOATING ENTRY 17 WHILE HIS LEITMOTIF PLAYS IN THE BACKROUND IS A HECKIN COINCIDENCE AAAAAAAA
>HE WAS JUST LE EASTER EGG XD
>LOL HIS THEME IS JUST 4 NOTES YOU CANT HECKIN SAY THAT IT IS HIS LEITMOTIF
>SEAM SAYING HIS WORLDVIEW HAS GOTTEN DARKER, YET DARKER, AND SPAMTON'S COWORKERS SAYING THAT THERE WAS NOTHING BUT GARBAGE NOISE COMING FROM THE PHONE IS JUST A COINCIDENCE LOL
>MUS_SMILE PLAYING NEAR THE BUNKER AND WHEN YOU USE THE PHONE IN A DARK WORLD IS A COINCIDENCE BROOOOO
>THE BEGINNING BEING CALLED "GONER_MAKER" IN THE FILES IS A HECKIN COINCIDENCE BROOOO
why are you like this
Why are you?
I fricking hate you morons that say Gaster is not important, when he's been hyped up for years. You have to be genuinely stupid to not realize this
>I fricking hate you morons that say Gaster is not important
Even your summary of me is an assumption lol.
yeah when you dismiss every piece of evidence, it kinda comes off as you being a moron, man.
All I'm saying is you can't make grand claims about what the game is or isn't doing based on information that hasn't even been confirmed.
Not saying what it is. Pointing out the obvious connections Gaster has to the story. You have to be willingly ignorant to gloss over it.
>You break the fricking game
But you don't. Not really. It's an intended path in the game. I feel like everyone really hypes up this aspect of the game but it's ALL scripted. That's what worries me the most. It's obvious Ralsei is "aware" of the player, but he's not. He's a fricking fictional character. Undertale was so much neater about this shit.
>it's le fictional so just don't immerse yourself in the story it's trying to tell
Just try to have fun for once, homosexual
I'd bet a lot of money I love Deltarune and Undertale more than you; Last Goodbye is my phone's ringtone, I complete a True Pacifist run of UT every year. It's very easy to immerse oneself in these games, but Deltarune hinges on the notion that the player is literally part of the game when they aren't. How you don't see what is wrong with this is beyond me.
>but Deltarune hinges on the notion that the player is literally part of the game when they aren't
It's easy to say that it's just a le scripted bideogame, but there is literally nothing wrong with this. (you) controlling Kris against his will, and all the themes of freedom in this game are genuinely interesting. I'm sorry you don't enjoy it
Being autistic about it is pointless. Try playing OneShot. No shit it's all scripted. It's still fun.
>(you) controlling Kris against his will
You're not controlling him against his will, you are playing a video game. Undertale completely sidesteps this in a neater way is my problem that you keep glossing over. I want to be convinced otherwise but all you're doing is shitposting at me.
The player being a part of the story was not a focus in Undertale. It is in Deltarune. If you just simplify it and say that it's le bideogame, there is no convincing you.
>You did not ACTUALLY murder all those monsters in the story. It's just a videogame
>You did not ACTUALLY save all those monsters in the story. It's just a bideogame
no shit. That's why you immerse yourself in the game. Stop being a nerd about it
Play OneShot
>You did not ACTUALLY murder all those monsters in the story. It's just a videogame
I did murder all those monsters in Super Metroid. I did murder all those monsters in DKC. I did murder all those goombas in SMB. I did murder all those lurkers in Jak and Daxter. I did not possess Jak against his will and then Daxter keeps hinting at the fact that he knows that I exist. You're simplifying the issue.
>You did not ACTUALLY save all those monsters in the story. It's just a bideogame
I did save those monsters in Undertale. I did not possess Frisk against his will.
There's nothing more to say if you're going to act like this. I genuinely think you lack the capacity to discuss this any further.
>OneShot
Looks neat.
yes because Jak doesn't obviously appear distraught over you "controlling" him. It's not a plot point in that game. It is in Deltarune. The game literally starts as a Survey program for (you). It's easy to simplify everything and say that it is a videogame and you are not ACTUALLY controlling him, but it doesn't matter, because it is still a plot point. It really doesn't matter that you go "WELL ACKSCHUALLY IT'S NOT REAL I AM NOT ACKSCHUALLY CONTROLLING KRIS". I cannot fathom how why you are so autistic about something like this. It's just a cool story gimmick. I don't see how it is an issue.
>Looks neat
You probably won't enjoy it if you are so autistic about 4th wall breaks and meta shit
>I don't see how it is an issue.
I think you crystallized my issue with it.
>yes because Jak doesn't obviously appear distraught over you "controlling" him
If Deltarune functioned like Undertale in that Kris didn't get all weird about the player "possessing" him and Ralsei stopped winking and nudging at the player that he knows we're there I'd enjoy the game a lot more. The pretense that these characters are "aware" of us is what galls me. Thank you anon. I knew something could be gleaned from this conversation.
>You probably won't enjoy it
Metal Gear Solid 2 did it well in 2001 and I still enjoy that now because the game made no effort to imply Raiden was aware of our existence.
Ralsei doesn't really mention you. He just "causes" a cutscene to play twice so he can talk to Kris in private. I get that this shit is not your cup of tea, but being autistic about it and going "IT'S A VIDEOGAME THO" is not productive
The extent of Kris getting weird is him screaming when Spamton fricking dies once his "strings" are cut. I think you get the metaphor. It's unfortunate you don't find it interesting.
nah ralsei has to know about the player
otherwise why would he tell kris to tell susie how to solve the puzzle when kris and susie are in separate cells?
Ralsei 100% knows about the player, it explains how you can reciprocate Ralsei's fluffy uwu boi friendship so much and at the same time Kris's opinion on him is pretty neutral (friend themed t eas). And like you mention, intentional diversions to whatever Susie is doing while he talks to Kris As Himself and not You.
Anon Ralsei names the town after the name in the survey program, and he directs our focus I believe twice across chapters 1 and 2 to have private conversations with Kris that the player cannot hear.
>It's unfortunate you don't find it interesting.
It would unironically all be worth it in the end if Kris uninstalls the game and deletes it from our harddrives.
>Deltarune ends with Kris filling out the steam refund form for Deltarune and uninstalling it from your library
>refund is rejected automatically because you've played for longer than the refund window
>reinstall the game
>kris REEEEEEEEEs and alt-F4s the game
>The reason why there's three save files is so that when you keep trying to open the Game Kris changes the names on them to
EAT
A
DICK
Still fricking wondering where that gay fricking goat got our name
>Still fricking wondering where that gay fricking goat got our name
See
Gaster told him after he was shattered across Time and Space to Deltarune after the ritual from Toby's dream was complete
Not him but you're clearly ignoring the whole metanarrative thing UT and DT have going on.
This. Both of the games are very connected. Deltarune was thought up before Undertale. UT has sneak peeks for Deltarune like Gaster and entry 17
>but there is literally nothing wrong with this
And there is a lot wrong with this when shit like this
> It's obvious Ralsei is "aware" of the player, but he's not. He's a fricking fictional character
Is going to be a big plot point. I can already see the part in chapter 5 or whatever when he addresses the player directly and everyone is going to be like
>WHOAAAA HE'S TALKING TO ME WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUCK
like a bunch of morons.
>LOL DID YOU KNOW THAT HE.... ACKSCHUALLY DOESN'T TALK TO YOU AND IT'S A BIDEOGAME, DUMMY? XD
Why are you like this
Good job you fricking morons
Millenial asswipes ruin indie games
Fun schizo facts:
>Deltarune is trademarked by "Royal Sciences LLC"
>Gaster may be partially inspired by a mistranslated character from Mother 1
>The Deltarune website had the prophecy and Entry 17 written out in wingdings all the way back in 2015
>If you name yourself Kris, Gaster tells you that you are about to meet somebody very, very wonderful, instead of "An interesting coincidence" like if you name the vessel Kris
>The ending of Deltarune appeared to Toby in a fever dream. He has been dedicating his entire life for over 10 years to making a game around that ending
>>If you name yourself Kris, Gaster tells you that you are about to meet somebody very, very wonderful, instead of "An interesting coincidence" like if you name the vessel Kris
This also applies to Susie and Noelle, confirming that Noelle is protagonist tier and that we probably won't have other party members, just Noelle.
>>The Deltarune website had the prophecy and Entry 17 written out in wingdings all the way back in 2015
And the only other person to specifically recite the prophecy, Angel's Heaven line included (which is what was in wingdings) is Ralsei.
>Noelle is protagonist tier and that we probably won't have other party members, just Noelle.
I do hope so. Putting the effort into mindbreaking her misses the point if she just fricks off for the rest of the game.
Mother 1 details please
?t=1557
There is a mistranslated character in Mother 1 called the Forgotten Man of Magicant, whose whole shtick is that he is forgotten and doesn't exist. In the jap version, he comes off as a tough guy, but in the eng version, he comes off as pathetic and depressing.
Toby talked about him in some recent Nintendo Life video about Mother
it may be a reach though
You also forgot
Ralsei is based on a dead kid, and Toby Fox apparently only made Undertale to "see if he could", and released the first Deltarune Demo after he (the kid) died.
Bonus:
>On a fresh installation before Chapter 1 is ever completed, the save file screen's prompts for copying/deleting files are narrated by Gaster and there are special responses for performing certain actions; copying a save file until all 3 files are identical has him say "PREPARATIONS ARE COMPLETE," threatening to delete a save file 10 times will have him say "VERY INTERESTING."
>Gaster's theme in the sound test room is mus_st_him, the official name for the vessel creation theme is "ANOTHER HIM"
>Various assets relating to Gaster in Deltarune use different prefixes for names (sprites use IMAGE_ instead of spr_, music uses AUDIO_ instead of mus_, etc), this applies to everything in the Vessel creation sequence, but also pic related in Queen's basement.
I can't replicate that first one. Does it need to be in a pre-chapter 2 survey program install? I have the green menu but those texts won't come up.
Nevermind, I got them both. Freaky shit, can't believe I'm learning more even now.
Yup, Gaster is a royal scientist alright... "PREPARATIONS ARE COMPLETE"
"WHAT AN INTERESTING BEHAVIOR" You can just see him writing it down in his notepad.
And let's not forget "WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE BLOODTYPE?"
To him this is a normal question, because he's a total nerd.
This confirms my theory that Deltarune is his big meta experiment
thread was worth it just to find out this existed
But I am bad.
Please don't be a bad guy anon, it's the last thing these characters need
i know toby was involved in HomeStuck
should i give it my attention?
under no circumstances
well you can listen to the soundtrack
but do not read the comic
Deltarune chapter 2 has massive homestuck vibes, you can tell toby was heavily influenced by it. if you liked that you will probably like homestuck.
if Kris wants to frick the purple dinosaur what is going to happen to noelle? (since she wants to do the same)
Nobody said she couldn't join his harem
>WAAAAAAH STOP JUDGING ME FOR BEING AN EVIL PIECE OF SHIT!!!
Don't want the game to call you an butthole? Click on the Mercy button.
>you are evil cuz you killed a videogame character
LMAO
I think the most fun part of the games are how far you can push them into schizo playground rumor bullshit. The weird route being unlocked via doing some creepypasta tier shit in chapter 2 was a fun time to be around.
Can't wait to turn Undyne into fried fish with Toriel in Chapter 3.
>people didn't believe snowgrave was a thing even when a video was posted of the titular scene
I can't wait to see what gets called fake in the future chapters. I hope it goes batshit insane.
Unfortunately, everything will get datamined this time around like 5 minutes after the game releases. I will probably have to shut off my internet for a few days when ch3-5 come out
Anon, Snowgrave got datamined and people STILL didn't believe.
People won't really deny some crazy shit this time around. People know what Toby can do with the game now.
The 3 chapters will still break this fricking board. Ganker was filled with Deltarune threads when ch2 released. It was kinda cool.
The cherry on top would be if Gaster gets a scene or two in the chapter bundle. It'd be weird if he was silent until chapter 7 anyway.
we will never ever have threads like the live chapter 2 ones again
when 3-5 release as a block, people will immediately start speedrunning 4 and 5 to try and spoil the people playing the chapters in order before we even have a chance to get there ourselves
I won't use Ganker for like 5 days. Atleast ledditors spoiler their shit
I've missed both secret bosses on both chapters first playthrough, and I'm going to miss ch3-5 bosses as well (and there could be more than one per chapter)
I can't even blame people for thinking It's fake, honestly.
>Hey anon, did you know that when you get Noelle in your party, if you backtrack to the garbage dump, then freeze every enemy you find on the way, you can freeze one of the NPCs, get a special ring and freeze Berdly? And then you get to fight the superboss by yourself at the very end after skipping the Queen battles, since Berdly is dead and Spamton take over the castle. Also Noelle comes back during the fight and one shot the superboss.
>No, I can't show you, I ran out of save slots so I could do th egg quest.
Snowgrave is still good, but it was the ultimate "you had to be there" type shit when anons were slowly realizing it wasn't bullshit.
Give me a rundown, I still haven't played it
* HELLO, MRS. KRIS' MOTHER AND MY MOTHER IN LAW!
* Just letting the little SUPERHERO know YOUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER!
* Kris is mine, MINE!!!
* Pee-YEW! Banana oil, that smell AIN'T swell! WHAT IS THIS, FRIED FISH?
* WHAT YA DOIN', MRS. KRIS' MOTHER? FIRING THE FLOWER, HUH?
* WELL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!! You'll end up FIRED from THE SHOW like a LITTLE CREEP!
- - -
* Huh?
* Kris!
* My child, thank the angel you are safe and sound! What a dream we had...look Kris, I'm sorry. I am so, so sorry.
* Seeing your brother grow and shine made me forget that you still need me...especially after trying to play superhero, haha, Tombflame, with...that weird flower...
*...and the local cop.
* Kris, you should have told me when you get hurt, okay?
* I don't want it to get to the point where I must hurt others.
she would say that
>Not A masculine Female, Not a femboy, Not a furry. Not a They/them.
Yea sorry anon. your Mime Oc is too based for deltarune
How the frick would you even find the Weird Route without datamining?
Just stumble upon by specifically trying a bunch of different shit trying to see what works?
it's not that complicated lol
you just go back when you get Noelle into your party. She even has special dialog when you do, and Lancer wonders if you can turn her into a bad guy
It's a fun concept when done right.
I am going to make Kris frick Noelle and that barney b***h will be forced to watch before she dies
hurry up Toby
Is this actually something toby posted? or just meme shit
fanmade. Room based on his most recent concept art
No, but this is
i think that might be fake as well, the rs don't match this genuine toby concept art
and when was that posted? No DR concept other than the twitter posts are out
the concept art of the river is in the game files
alright, I've not checked all of them. But the picture I had was posted on the game development /vg/ page, and I think it was before/same time as the CH1 datamining. I think this link was it, if it still works
http://tqy2x4otwl4yaoc6jqqcifxwdzkzinakszg32gxavgjjt4ix3w5w2fad.onion.pet/vg/thread/242002389
well i don't see how that's relevant to my point
>mixels
If Toby doesn't release it this year, I fear it will never release.
I still have a bit of copium that it will release this year. Or atleast Toby will show us some footage and release music
Give it late 2023
have some high grade copium friends
Will the other soul gimmicks appear in the future chapters?
is that zone
post fanmade music
>Religious schizo boss with Touhou Undyne trumpets
KINO
>game punishes you for thinking for yourself
It's a mockup
Jews love to subvert. It's their one most reliable trick.
>genocide is LE BAD
fricking homosexual game made for morons
The economy will go belly up before this game is finished. Too bad deltatroon.
Yeah, really this is the worst of the situation.
People probably won't even have money to purchase Deltarune if it takes too long to come out, since the Democrat party likely sees the writing on the walls and is desperately trying to destroy the country before their party finally implodes
meds, now
All the psychotropics in my tummy, won't unfrick the world you dummy
>chapter 3,4 and 5 all releasing at once
Yep, see you in 2025 lmao.
>one character knows that the player is perfectly capable of reloading their SAVE whenever they kill something
>this character judges the player for killing anything because they know that the player is a god with no reason to fear death
>every other character in the game is perfectly willing to forgive the player for killing even their friends in what is clearly self-defence
>brainlets sperg out and claim that the game thinks self-defence is bad
HAHA OP IS A PUSSY WHO CAN'T TAKE CRITICISM FROM A FRICKING VIDEOGAME HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
FRICKING POINT AT OP, SHIT YOUR PANTS AND LAUGH!!!
Oh, is it really schiz'o'clock again?
I worry about Deltarune because it's really leaning into the player being involved in the story in ways Undertale never touched on. All the stuff about how the game is reacting to player input i.e. Snowgrave, or Kris hanging out with Susie even though he never did, none of that matters because these are just scripted events. I really hope Toby has a point with all this.
The whole "can't kill even if you try" and "can't level even if you try" paired with "recruiting doesn't ad up to anything" also has me somewhat concerned for the game's meta-value in the long run, but I stick around for the adorable goofy characters.
>shill your game on Ganker
>invite your homosuck buttbuddies from tumblr to astroturf in the threads
>know the jig will be up eventually once people realize what's going on
>say "people like it now but they'll start hating it soon!" in an attempt to get ahead of being exposed
This seems to be a pattern with Toby.
Toby Fox plagiarizes art, music and even story beats from other games
When is he going to be fired and unpersoned from the gaming industry?
in 2 more weeks
>Toby Fox plagiarizes art, music and even story beats from other games
just post the schizo wall of links already and gtfo
Why do you feel the NEED to protect Toby Fox?
No need to defend anyone, I just like to antagonize people like you specifically.
>antagonize
Ooh the irony
Explain.
thank god we have freethinkers like you around that le epically expose all the evil plots on the board. You're definitely not crazy
Defending yourself is... LE BAD
Reminder that aside from Toriel every single character you encounter actively tries to murder you first.
>I'm the victim!!
The point was never that defending yourself is bad as such. But opne of the points is that killing in self-defense isn't a desirable outcome for anyone.
Then perhaps the locals shouldn't have attempted to kill you in the first place of they didn't want to be killed back.
If you actually kill someone, you don't know what their intention would hae been if YOU were at the brink of death. It's an unreasonable act of self defense to kill someone.
Sure. If you're satisfied with an ending to a video game about making friends, where you don't get to make friends with everyone, because some of them are dead, then it's perfectly desirable.
>But opne of the points is that killing in self-defense isn't a desirable outcome for anyone.
It is for the person who defended themselves.
>Falls down a hole
>First person they meet tries to gaslight and kill them.
>Only to get "rescued" by some schizophrenic goat wanting to keep you in house arrest to sate her maternal desires
>Everyone thereafter wants to kill you and take your soul
Nah totally not a victim and the monsters aren't just naturally violent psychos who were imprisoned underground for good reason.
And they attack you because they want to leave the dark underground and bask in the son
You saying you wouldn’t kill one child for the hood of your people?
I'm saying the child isn't in the wrong for defending himself.
And the game isn’t saying you are
Neutral endings are the endings most people get because they get sick of dodging
Depending on who you kill, sans will act accordingly
Why wouldn’t he be mad that you killed his brother or a long time friend when you had the option to put maneuver them?
B-BUT YOU'RE A HUMAN SO WAY STRONGER THEN THEM, IT WASN'T A FAIR FIGHT
The last human that visited got their prince killed for a laugh. It stands to reason that any future humans wouldn't be welcome
It's a video game. The whole thing is an analogy for how other people may seem to be a living a life that conflicts with yours. It may seem as if they're try to harm you or your values.
You can still decide to look for the best in others, even when they appear hostile at first.
We are all capable of mistakes, but if no-one breaks the cycle of the emotional arms race, we will all keep making ourselves harder to the world, and ultimately be less satisfied with life than we could have been.
Well good luck looking for the best in some junkie while he shanks you for your wallet
That’s why it’s a fictional story that shouldn’t be applied in real life
That’s why the soul only exists in fiction
If a story only works in such an unrealistic and contrived scenario then it's a shit story.
>NOOOO IT HAS TO BE LE REALISTIC
>NOOOOOOOO IF IT CAN'T BE APPLIED TO REAL LIFE IT'S LE BAD
why are pseuds like this
If a story works then it was a good story
Which this one does
You the kind of homosexual who gets mad because the message of Ulysses didn’t help you in real life?
>every science fiction story is shit
>every fantasy story is shit
>every animal fable is shit
>every story about fictional people making irrational but morally poignant decisions is shit
What stories do you like?
>every science fiction story is shit
>every fantasy story is shit
>every animal fable is shit
>every story about fictional people making irrational but morally poignant decisions is shit
So even the bible then.
Harsh.
Did I fricking stutter?
No sir, you did not, sir.
Good luck with literally killing him in self-defense and convincing yourself that everyone is best off that way.
>Europoor fingers typed this post.
I'm sorry we don't have as many junkies that need to resort to violent crime as you do, anon.
I hope you get to "clean up the streets" of your neighbourhood sometime and look super awesome while doing it.
>Slave bike cuck morality
I'm a little sad about being murdered but that guy was probably really happy to get his fix so overall there is more happiness in the world. I'm a good person.
Nobody ever talked about letting yourself get murdered.
Not even inside the game Undertale is it an option to let yourself get murdered if you want to win the game.
The mentality og kill or be killed as the only options is exactly what the game seeks to work against.
>WAAAH WAAAH EVERYONE IS JUNKIE!!!
Ever heard of that term that we call "nuance"? Why do I have to teach that basic shit to you like you are a preschool toddler. Not every hostile person is a junkie strawman trying to shank you. Loosen that tinfoil hat and touch grass.
>Bad people don't exist we can all just hold hands and get along!
Why are tumblurinas so sheltered?
>monsters
>people
The game literally argues the opposite.
>Jump to extremes like a paranoid schizo again.
ngmi
But you're a human so you're way stronger than them, it wasn't a fair fight to begin with.
>killing people that want to kill you is... le bad!
You don't know if they really wanted to kill you when you yourself didn't die.
Assuming the worst from others is what creates a colder, harsher world for everyone.
They don't
I guess we should kill all wild animals since most of them try to kill us whenever we approach them
It's a desirable outcome for me, cause otherwise I'll be killed. Please go back.
You should try Dungeons & Dragons if you want to be a blameless paladin.
I already play dungeons and dragons.
Not everything I come across tries to kill me on sight, not even the fricking frost giants we encountered while hunting tried to kill the party on sight, and in fact we traded with them.
If your npc goes for the kill, so will I.
You don't actually know if you'd have been killed.
And nobody with a self-preservation instinct will stick around to find out
>You don't heckin get it! I had to smash that child's skull in because he was being annoying!
Papyrus literally can’t kill you
>Enemies attack you and attempt to capture or kill you
>Fighting back makes you le bad
>Act like an butthole
>"You are an butthole"
>Gives Ganker a meltdown
>Everyone gets to be a butthole
>Except the player
They really don't.
You don't see Undyne running around killing everyone
You don't see Toriel running around killing everyone.
The only one you see doing that is Flowey, who also has the ability to save and reset.
Who, curiously has a whole plan gather all the souls of all the monsters in the underground and the human souls. Which culminates in admitting he doesn't care about killing you anymore, opening the barrier and choosing to the best of his ability to not interact with the world anymore of his own volition.
Weird isn't it?
Undyne is trying to kill or capture you
Toriel is so desperate to live out her fantasy she attempts to kill you
EVERYONE, you dumb dumb.
>Undyne is trying to kill or capture you
>Toriel is so desperate to live out her fantasy she attempts to kill you
i was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with undyne but if you unironically think toriel tries to kill you at any point you are legitimately moronic
>You don't see Undyne running around killing everyone
No you see her trying to kill a child. Which even genocide route treats as a action too horrible to even allow you to follow through with.
How do you fail a litmus test, OP?
why are furries always such morons?
>Litshit test
sorry, don't know what that is
We always have these kind of threads were people didn’t play the or didn’t read her the game was about and complained about the gimmick
>BEING AN butthole GOOD I AM TOTALLY SECURE ABOUT MY VALUES AND ACTIONS THAT'S WHY I HAVE A MELTDOWN EVERYTIME PEOPLE I DON'T KNOW CALL OUT MY BULLSHIT!
I can do this tok.
Games message goes out the window when the monsters are trying to kill you.
They swung first.
You weren't paying attention then.
And game message comes back in when you were told you can talk to them and defuse the situation
Yeah talking down someone violently trying to kill you totally works. That's why we should defund the police and replace them with sociology students.
No one is saying that
Stop applying base messages of fiction to real life
It’s fiction for a reason, real life is more complicated
They don't want to kill you, they only fight you out of an obligation
And I'm only defending myself. I don't care for their reasons, they're trying to kill me.
Okay, good for you. Why is this a problem? Before you reply, remember, neither "the game" nor "the dev" are calling you anything.
>Someone tries to murder you
>"Bro just talk them down bro"
That’s the gimmick of the game moron
>the game literally argues this doesn't work
nice try bro, play the game next time
>four thousand years of philosophy BTFO'd by a neorationalist teenage liberal
Bravo, anon.
Half the monsters are not even aware they are attacking you.
Congratulations on being the only one to have actually played the game, anon
And the other half are, so it's still a moronic message.
They can't kill you. They can't even hurt you since you are not kris. Saving/loading is a canonical, in-universe ability that you have. Enemies can only make you fail and lose a couple minutes of progress.
>monsters swung first
>humans waged war on monsters, massacred the vast majority of their population and trapped them underground thousands of years before the game takes place
sure thing buddy
When you remember the humans started the war, which was apparently so brutal that Gerson's a war hero for just surviving, killing seven kids who won't be missed seems pretty fair.
>who won't be missed
That seems like an unreasonable assumption to add in the mix though.
nobody goes up the mountain unless they're wayward
And Asgore actually knew how to guide them home if he'd wanted to. So.
>When you remember the humans started the war
That assumes you believe those tablets which is easily a case of war being written by the losers. Given the monsters reaction to meeting a human as seen in the game it might have been more complicated than "they fear if we absorb a soul!".
Shitty game for zoomers, the poors man cave story if you will.
Ok but is Sans Ness?
Sans is Varik
Fair enough
More like Kris is Varik.
Actually, you need about 70 kills by the middle of the game for characters to be scared of you and call you evil. It's impossible to rack up that many kills by that point unless you're actively trying to clear the zones of monsters
tldr: You are evil
Why wouldn't you be clearing the zones of monsters? It's a game
>tldr: You are evil
It's a game
>interact with peaceful creatures
>kill anything that attacks you without mercy
If they were peaceful they wouldn't attack you.
Peaceful does not be pacifist
Nations that don’t declare war every few minutes are peaceful
It is, however, only your perception of things that they're attacking you.
Most of them are just doing what they normally do, and then you happen to come by.
Very few have attack patterns where the bullets specifically target you, rather than move in a standard pattern.
>I'm just gonna run at you wildly flailing this knife
>Oh no, I'm not actually trying to stab you! I always run in this direction swinging it.
>But if you do happen to get sliced up that's your fault so don't you dare try to protect yourself.
I hate that I know this is bait and pointing out that you can attack standard monsters and spare them would mean literally nothing.
Doesn't matter anyway because the anon still has a point.
Come on, are you really going to pretend "it's only your perception that they're attacking you" as a valid argument? Is it also only your perception that you take damage?
You could always read the post again and consider whether your question even makes sense.
Froggit is completely unaware. Shyren is just singing. Vulkin thinks it's helping. Jerry literally does not attack.
I can keep going.
That doesn't account for every monster, not to mention that it's pretty vague when a monster literally isn't trying to fight or when it is and has an unusual methods of attacking you.
>It is, however, only your perception of things that they're attacking you.
That was the post. Do you think this was a valid argument to begin with?
I just want you to know that you are objectively wrong and making a fool of yourself.
Yes Anonymous poster who is not the same person, it is not the same person continuing somebody else's argument using the same vocabulary choices, the same stubborn responding to every post, and the same general line of thinking, all of which you as a based and redpilled individual have come to on your own and completely separate train of logic
Your next line will be "take your meds"
> the same stubborn responding to every post
Just checked through the reply chain and my post was literally the first time to fricking do that so you aren't even right about that lmao.
>Your next line will be "take your meds"
At least you're self-aware.
>Now we're getting nuanced?
I'm always nuanced on this. I actually like undertale/deltarune for crying out loud. All I'm here to argue is that "it's only from your perspective you're being attacked" makes for a really shitty argument.
Even in the instance where the monster 100% isn't aware of the damage they are doing. The fact they apparently unknowingly attack by nature has its own implications to consider.
"It's only from your perspective that you're being attacked" is a shit argument because you're literally getting hurt by them. Dunno how many time I need to say that.
>"It's only from your perspective that you're being attacked" is a shit argument because you're literally getting hurt by them
And you can defuse the situation without killing them.
Are you acknowledging that It's only from your perspective that you're being attacked" is a shit argument?
That is not an argument, it's just a statement. There is nothing being argued there unless you believe a statement of fact to be an argument.
Expand the sentence to encompass the actual "argument" before we proceed.
Here was the full post:
Honestly this seem like a daft hill to die on here. Claiming it's "only your perspective" when you're literally getting damaged seems dumb.
You seem hung up on semantics. They do not see themselves as attacking you because they are doing mundane actions that they do with each other all the time. This means it is unjustified to kill them in "self-defense" rather than get them to stop attacking you. Do you agree with this premise, REGARDLESS of the semantics of the word "attack"?
You literally get damaged by lots and lots of things in real life that never intended to hurt you.
The post even explains how this is portrayed in the game.
>Thing "attacking" you doesn't have any frame of reference that what they're doing is harming you
This is still a correct observation.
It'd be like stabbing a big man with a nail in his cartoid artery because he was holding your hand too hard and you said nothing.
>and you said nothing
Funny enough the game never gives you the option to just SAY "these things you are doing are hurting me, please stop".
Actually that's a good question. If all these monsters really are all just attacking you on a misunderstanding, why wasn't just saying that an option?
>If all these monsters really are all just attacking you on a misunderstanding, why wasn't just saying that an option?
*ACT
Yeah you pacify them through some vague and abstract actions. Which would make sense if we work on the idea that the monsters AREN'T just doing shit not knowing they hurt you. But this clearly has a much simpler solution to use that should work every time if they really did not know which is to just fricking tell them.
Let's put it like this. If the monster, on attacking you, were told "don't do that, it hurts me" continued to do it anyway, wouldn't that put them in a pretty bad light?
That's not fun, though, you're missing the point of it being a video game.
"What is the Underground's tax policy?" is on the same tier of questioning, or the old example of "why didn't they just fly the eagles into Mordor".
It's on toby to come up with a writing for this story that fits the fun gameplay. If you want to chalk this up to nitpicking then fine. My position is already that the games is good but have writing that can be picked apart. But this is a fair criticism, especially since this seems to be one of the things Toby did address with Deltarune.
In other words a lot of the monsters with a good reason are the less dangerous ones while some come across as being shitty for being so self-absorbed while also being dangerous as a result.
>It's on toby to come up with a writing for this story that fits the fun gameplay.
homie, how is "Don't make gameplay at me" compelling
Also it would make the game REALLY, REALLY boring if acting was entirely reduced to a button that makes them stop attacking you, but I don't think anyone whinging about undertale is willing to actually acknowledge how shit that would be
Froggit cannot understand what you say.
Whimsun runs away before you utter a word.
Snowdrake would probably get annoyed that you're interrupting its jokes.
Tsunderplane would think you're flirting with it.
etc.
...that's what acting and sparing is for
but you're just gonna b***h that you're not literally talking to them or something, I assume
>Your next line will be "take your meds"
>At least you're self-aware.
that was the fricking weakest twitter clap-back i've ever seen
>is a shit argument because you're literally getting hurt by them. Dunno how many time I need to say that.
You can say it as many times are you want to without ever being right.
You get hurt by flying into a windmill blade on your awesome air scooter too, but that doesn't change the fact that the windmill was just doing its thing.
>that doesn't account for every monster
Now we're getting nuanced? Then what's the problem? "The game" (by which you people mean Sans) does not insult you when you kill some monsters. The only instances in which it gets directly hostile with you is when you kill Papyrus.
>Do you think this was a valid argument to begin with?
They make an entire fricking point of this several times over in the game.
So yes. I think it's pretty valid.
>because the anon still has a point
I just want you to know that even when you're trolling epic-style this is the most flamingly obvious samehomosexualry you could possibly attempt
Who are you quoting?
Genuine question:
Why is it that literally every time we have these threads, we know at best a few things
>People whining about Undertale calling you a monster have likely not played the game
>Considering they get assflummoxed by a game calling them a doodoo head for murdering LITERALLY EVERYONE likely don't have the will power to actually sit down and grind out a Genocide run
>The game has multiple end "Rankings" that cover accidentally killing people or killing in self defense
Do we continue to pretend the same tired old bait is at all legitimate?
>inb4 some assmad moron replies to this with Spec Ops because he thinks people will think he's really clever for posting an actual shitty preachy game
Because it's the same people every time. Most passerbys do not stick around on lengthy conversations. Most threads are made by the same people. Most arguments are perpetuated by the same people. Most talking points are posted by the same people. There's always new bystanders but the actors are always the same.
>Do we continue to pretend the same tired old bait is at all legitimate?
I tend to find pointing out the implications of the monsters attacking a child on impulse serves as good justification for locking them all up serves as a strong argument.
A lot people didn’t play the game and can’t handle when characters react to your actions despite knowing the gimmick of the game
>Make fun of Undertale
/v/edditors marching into the thread by the thosens defending it.
You guys reaaally need to go back.
Nothing infuriates me more than meta commentary games where the pseudo-intellectual developer goes
>you had a choice, just don't play the game xD
Thread unrelated?
That’s not what happened in this game
Your choice was to not kill and if you do the game reacts accordingly
In fact you’re told to go further
When you think of genocide/snowgrave as extra content, then you basically are criticised for playing.
Why do you care about the bonus evil route calling you evil if you deliberately chose to do the evil route?
That's not criticizing you, that's being thematically appropriate.
Ok but we've established it's not an argument to say genocide route was a choice if you're of the attitude that you want to explore all the game has to offer?
Funnily enough trying to guilt you into not playing anymore happens most explicitly in the pacifist route anyway.
Also I think denying characters sometimes get used as mouthpieces is short-sighted.
You can choose to play it. The characters will get angry you are killing their friends. There is nothing wrong with this. This will never be "the game" or "the dev" attacking you directly.
>Ok but we've established it's not an argument to say genocide route was a choice if you're of the attitude that you want to explore all the game has to offer?
>Choosing to play the genocide route is not choosing to play the genocide route because I'll shit myself and cry when I watch it on youtube
okey
The characters talk to you that way because you are killing them and destroying their lives
The game doesn’t tell you to stop
No you aren't.
Your player persona is asked to consider whether it's a meaningful use of your time to literally murder everyone you can find, in order to upset even those most willing to accept your flaws.
But you as a human being playing a videogame are rewarded for playing with the toughest and craziest battles designed for the game.
>then you basically are criticised for playing
By the characters. I'm fine with that. It's an evil route, characters can call me evil all they want.
No, the characters are not a mouthpiece for the developer and I will not listen to you argue otherwise.
>play rpg (role-playing game)
>role-play as an evil character in this game
>characters in game respond to your evil-acting character as though they are acting evil
DUDE WHAT THE FRICK THIS GAME IS TRASH
>game proceeds to get meta and have characters acknowledge game mechanics such as saving, using that as part of their criticism
At that point it becomes fair game to consider it criticism of how you treat it as a game, because the characters are looking at you from the same standpoint.
Anon, they aren't people. They are characters in a video game. The only difference is that instead of role-playing as the character you fight/interact wit you are roleplaying as the entity possessing the character and saving/loading. I can assure you there is no point where Toby Fox jumps out of your monitor and slaps you for daring to play a part of the game he spent time and effort developing. Its just characters in a game responding to the actions of the character you are role-playing as.
But as
says, the players gets forced into Kris, meaning Toby is using those two characters to talk directly to the player, rather than a character the player is controlling
flowey and sans are the only meta-aware characters in undertale, and sans is the one of the two that reveals he's meta-aware when you've decided to play evil because you're about to destroy the world
no, the characters aren't looking at you from the same standpoint, *a* character is looking at you from the same standpoint
I never said I was exclusively looking at what happens during genocide route.
>I can assure you there is no point where Toby Fox jumps out of your monitor and slaps you for daring to play a part of the game he spent time and effort developing.
Do you think Toby personally disagrees with what his characters say to you on this? If not, then what was the point of arguing the toss on this?
i wasn't talking exclusively about genocide route either, flowey is meta-aware regardless of route since he's the only DT loaded thing in the underground that isn't a monstrosity
if you want to argue deltarune then the only explicitly meta-aware characters directly shown so far are jevil, spamton, ralsei, and kris himself, and ralsei is mainly through hints like pushing you off to susie to see what she's doing and in dialogue with the puzzle pieces that teach you about battle
Right so if we include stuff outside genocide then that also includes flowey trying to guilt you into not restarting the game at the end of pacifist.
>Flowey trying to guilt
And why do you care? He's the villain.
This was after he became good.
>You are playing a video game anon. The characters are not real. It is for fun. They are simply reacting the way people might react if something like this actually happened.
We're back to
Toby intentionally made a game that used meta-narratives to question your behaviour treating the game as a game. Either you think that toby wrote his characters criticising you while personally not thinking those are valid criticisms, or there was no point to attempting to distinguish them to begin with.
We're back to
Why do you think the game tries to trick you into giving chara your own name at the start?
flowey can eat my shit, he's a parasite
He believes he's talking with Chara, not you.
He figures out pretty quickly that you aren't Chara considering the Chara he knew would never do a pacifist run. There's also the fact that everyone for some reason ignores his dialog that mentions that Chara is long gone.
>Chara he knew would never do a pacifist run
That's exactly why he believes he's talking with Chara. Which is why, once again, he says his final goodbye to "Chara" instead of "Frisk" or "You". Hell, he even says that he believes Chara has already heard that whole speech a thousand times already.
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. He thinks you were Chara the whole time
and realizes that You and Frisk weren't Chara once his boss fight is over with. Doing anything but the genocide route is basically being ooc to him and he thinks you're dicking around with him. He says as much on an aborted genocide route and thinks You'll reset which I would also like to add is an ability Chara never had before unless you give them your soul and if they did have it, would've been an amazing time to use it not have Asriel die.
>Do you think Toby personally disagrees with what his characters say to you on this? If not, then what was the point of arguing the toss on this?
I'm sure if an otherworldly entity with saving/loading powers started genociding people Toby and most human beings would react in a negative way similar to the way the characters in the story react.
However, that is not happening. You are playing a video game anon. The characters are not real. It is for fun. They are simply reacting the way people might react if something like this actually happened. Take your pills anon.
Your reminder that the only callouts happen during the fight with Sans or if you kill Papyrus.
Either way, you get what you deserve.
And before OP says it, no, Papyrus will not kill you.
To be fair you don't know papyrus doesn't kill you until he actually depletes your health. If you're playing honestly you're not going to allow him to deplete your health to find that out.
Unless the main route does what genocide does and literally has a point where papyrus shows that he doesn't intend to kill you then the player working on the assumption he does is reasonable.
To be fair, you NEVER know if anyone truly intents to kills you until you are actually about to die.
You can only kill him after he has stopped attacking. You literally cannot kill him in the heat of battle, it has to be a conscious decision to execute him after he is no longer fighting.
Ah fair enough, does the game actually explicitly say he's stopped fighting you?
Have you played his fight?
It was literally years ago. And I wasn't attacking him.
The fight plays out the same exact way whether you're attacking him or not. It ends at the same attack and with the same speech.
He engages the fight by saying he's going to capture you, and all the fantasies about capturing you would lead him to, and him being sad that he won't be able to see you anymore, upon being "defeated" he just puts you in a room that locks from the inside and waits because he can't bring himself to tell Undyne.
I'm pretty sure if you manage to lose to Papyrus enough he just lets you go.
>I only killed them because they attacked me
You can only get the Genocide ending if you kill Monster Kid who, in fact, can't attack you.
That video is an edit.
battle interface opens so he's attacking you
This game is moronic and still filters brainlets
This, but it's the brainlets that are moronic and not the game.
moron.
.t you
yes you are 😉
Reddit the game
This proves that Ganker is finished.
Anons had a good time here but now it's over.
Get out, asswipe.
You guys do recall that it's possible to spare wounded monsters?
It's like none of you tards finished Crush the White Legs properly.
>you only get "PLAYER IS... LE BAD" from the game when you've been so astronomically autistic that you've chosen to kill literally everything the game has for you to kill
>Wanting to get the most out of the game is le bad!
>Moving on so you can consooooom more is le based!
Get excited for product.
Boring ass game
>Hurr durr don't kill anyone do this boring thing over and over
>Hurr durr kill everyone do this boring thing over and over
The pope didn't deserve this
>Undertalegays keep discussing whether or not violence is justified
>DeltaruneCHADS discuss plot theories and lore
Deltarunebros...we won.
Whether it's justified or not is a moot point. Killing or showing mercy is up to you. It's only when you go out of your way to depopulate the underground when you officially cross the line.
Also, as mentioned before, killing Papyrus is an actual sin.
Killing everyone is fine but not le heckling wholesome funny skellyman that's over the line!!!
He's the only one besides Toriel who can't kill you, so yes, you are wrong to kill him.
Been a gasterschizo for years. Can't wait for the upcoming chapters
Talking about gay underage goats and mindbreaking does is not plot theories and lore you filthy fricking furgay
>helping kris make new friends and repair his broken friendship with the deer makes me a bad person
what did the fox mean by this
The stupid shitty dog says that you aren't a bad person for this, but that Kris never solicited help and you are definitively controlling him, so it's not really him getting his life back on track even if there's lots of direct net benefits for him
There's times where Kris is extremely receptive to your input (telling Queen you'd rather die gets a 10/10 reaction from him, sharing Alphys's dyke chocolates with Susie instead of giving them to Undyne) and times where he's downright baffled by your input or unreceptive (saying you'd go to a carnival with literally anyone but Susie)
The dog hasn't said shit.
>kris never solicited help
You don't know this.
Yeah Kris solicited help, that's why he has a heart-stained wagon he throws (You) into
Play the game you contrary moron
I've played the game several times already. You can make assumptions but you have no idea what goes on in Kris's head. You can't just claim he 100% rejects all of you, maybe he wanted or needed you but doesn't want you to overstep, you don't know what's going on in there.
I think the extended screaming after the Spamtom fight was pretty definitive Kris wants us to stop.
Kris needs to MAN the frick up and face his fears, I'm not trying to kill this damn kid
You can have whatever opinion you want on Kris, but you can't expect him to be just fine with you taking control of his body, even if you're doing it for a "good" reason. Imagine that you want to help someone who's addicted to drugs, so you kidnap him and lock him up in a room until he overcomes withdrawal syndrome. You might be "helping" him, but he's clearly not gonna be happy with you taking away his freedom.
>You can make assumptions but you have no idea what goes on in Kris's head.
We have a pretty good idea of what goes on in Kris's head from flavor text, NPC dialogue describing Kris's actual personality that You Don't Fit and often don't have dialogue choices to actually represent, and statements from a couple characters like Noelle who are aware of You, The Player, that you're not the same people.
When left to his own devices Kris doesn't want frickin' ANYBODY in his body. His very first action in a secluded spot is to rip You, The Player out. Did you actually play this game? I don't think you did because you're trying to make this a point of vagueness when it's not.
Anon I've played the fricking game and discussed Kris's personality traits at length in previous threads. I know about the choices and how he reacts to them, I've probably pointed them out more times than anyone. Please stop with this moronic smug "you didn't play the game shit" if you're actually interested in arguing something.
Well for someone who has played the game you sure don't have any fricking idea on what's actually happening in the story.
I don't care how many times you say you have when you've managed to make the first chapter's sting reveal and a consistent point in the second chapter into a point of vagueness when it's not vague at all.
Play the game.
Do we even know for sure if that's actually Kris ripping YOU out of his body or if he's doing it under the influence of another third party? I for one don't but the "Kris is The Knight" theory where he's consciously creating the fountains on his own.
The fact that Kris is able to rip us out whenever he wants is proof that he does actually want or need us for our power and is willing to put up with our bullshit to get it. There's nothing forcing him to put us back in before the start of chapter 2, or after he washes his hands, he does that entirely on his own.
>The fact that Kris is able to rip us out whenever he wants
We don't know if that's the real Kris though. He could be doing it under the influence of another power since I doubt the real Kris ever acted like a murderous psycho
real kris still isn't acting like a murderous psycho, he's just fricking with you when he looks at the camera and brandishes a knife, he literally runs off to go eat an entire pie
I guess the whole thing with creating fountains and slashing car tires was also just a ploy to frick with you then?
i don't think that's severe enough to qualify for "murderous psycho"
He's putting his adoptive mom in real danger by opening a fountain right inside their house. Not psychotic my ass.
sure if his mom's moronic and has absolutely no conception of self-defense, something that berdly figured out almost immediately and noelle had managed to completely avoid up to that point on her own
>it's okay to put your mom in danger because she could PROBABLY defend herself
Real psycho mentality right there
I feel sorry for your parents
Honestly, maybe.
Kris sort of presents you, or the fountain to you at the end of Chapter 2, and you only really know about it as a conscious observer after everyone's asleep.
Shouldn't have been summoning demons like a moron.
He wanted help. He's going to get it whether he likes it or not.
What did he want with us bros?
He wants to be the player character
Didn't he want to go to [Heaven] AKA the world of lightners?
>[Heaven]
He thought power was the way to move up a plane of reality and become a real boy. It isn't, that's probably impossible for Darkners and it already takes some hefty reality fukkery to go DOWN a layer and mingle with the Darkners, but he tried. He's fundamentally a very selfish person who thinks any attempt to help him is also selfish and going to stab him in the back later, but how much of this is personal experience and how much of this is inherent distrust as a salesman is left vague. It takes cutting his strings to help him out while he's trying to kill you for the player soul to realize there's an altruistic choice being made for him.
I think every schizoboss was a vessel for Gaster's experiments at some point, making them the "protagonist", but at some point he just fricked off and they lost whatever bonus being the vessel gave them (saving?) got locked up (jevil) and forgotten about (spamton)
Guys
Big
Purple
Lizard
Woman
You don't get the genocide route if you kill everybody that stands in your way
The only way to get the genocide route is to autistically search more monsters to kill
Of course the game will tell that your actions are bad at this point because why wouldn't it?
Actually it's more like "you are le bad if you want to be le bad"
That's the message of Spec-Ops: The Line. Undertale chastises you for making the DECISION to be an evil player.
No, Undertale chastises you for acting like a completionist jerk
But it reminds you along the way that you're making a conscious decision. That's the underlying message. As you keep drilling down on your path and you're always being told that you don't have to do this and the consequences are legitimate.
>the consequences are legitimate
It's a game so not really
The central theme of the game is that you can't detach yourself as a player from what happens in the game world. It fully acknowledges you aren't in their world but are still affecting it.
I don't like that the player is only a plot point in the genocide route
He still is in the normal route, you're torn out of him at night so he can do whatever he wants to do. There's things Kris can do only when he's not under player influence. In the first one it was just leaving to eat all the pie, in the second he made a fountain.
I was talking about undertale, sorry
Reminder:
The Angel: (You)
The three triangles: 2 Lightners and Prince of the dark
The Angel's Heaven: Anywhere outside the game window
An angel shall make the underground go empty
Three heroes appear at world's edge (Literally the fricking game window border) and banish The Angel's Heaven (Ending)
I dunno man, feels like a lot of things point to Noelle being the angel
>go out of your way to be an butthole
>WOW WTF WHY IS THE GAME CALLING ME AN butthole
>WAHHHHH WHY DO DIFFERENT CHOICES LEAD TO DIFFERENT ENDINGS
>I'M JUST TRYING TO BE A COMPLETIONIST BRO
Oneshot did fourth wall breaking than Undertale and Deltarune ever did
literally who
It literally didn't
It literally did. Oneshot shits on Undertale and Deltarune when it comes to fourth wall breaking because it's the entire premise of the game, rather than being a quirky thing shoehorned in to grab people's attention
>It has to say on the cover that it's a horror story or I won't believe that even a single passage was intended to be scary.
That's what you sound like.
this one's pic related
Not that anon but you're straw-grasping.
What?
literally who
I agree.
What the frick is the egg quest
Literal easter eggs
In Chapter 1, in that one room where the star bird shoots at you, where you can also find Starwalker, there is a chance that you will enter a secret room if you exit to the left.
In Chapter 2, same thing but on the room right before the dumpster with the graffiti on the wall.
If you got the Chapter 1 egg, check the cars at the bottom near the beginning of Chapter 2, where Undyne is.
Be a good christian and turn the other cheek 🙂
Why do tumblrgay tourists think their behavior and writing patterns aren't immediately noticeable as outsiders? They stick out like a sore thumb, literally no one talks about any topic on Ganker the way these morons talk about and defend Toby and his piddly games, and then they try to pretend that umm ackhsually, they're the oldgays and Ganker always loved furgay lolsorandom humor, it's so transparent it's hilarious
based, literally this but unironically
soul
/thread
>that umm ackhsually, they're the oldgays and Ganker always loved furgay lolsorandom humor,
Because I have a bunch of material from when Undertale released that proves your revisionism wrong, and I'm pretty sure a lot of the Undertale threads from around that time are archived. Trying to cry that "Ganker HAET UNDERGAY" is pointless.
>I have a bunch of material from when me and my tumblr buddies raided Ganker when Undertale released
Everything that doesn't fit my metanarrative about what Ganker Was is a raid: a child's guide to ignoring Ganker archives when I've got a furious craving for penis
Next you're going to claim Ganker always loved horsefrickers because look, lots of people used to post colorful horse images here before the containment board was created, I have the proofs
This claim doesn't float since anyone that was back around since the demo is aware that unlike horsefricker spam back when it wasn't quarantined, the "people" that didn't like undertale was nigh exclusively a single fricking blisteringly assmad homosexual that blew $2000 on scat porn and got caught by being too specific about the shit he was paying for, and people checked with the artists.
The near entirety of the memes of Isabelle and Toriel has it's memetic lineage from that time period.
Tumblr's raids on Ganker were around 2010 and again at 2013-2014 in response to /misc/ trying to colonize them, this would have been at the time of the demo and Poopy Joe and not at the time of release
Unless you want to argue Tumblr's raiders became permanent residents for anywhere between one to five years just so they could psy-op Undertale into being a board favorite and pushing down the opinions of native anons, which is very funny
/misc/ homosexuals stayed here didn't they, tumblr homosexuals staying here is not the reach you're presenting it as especially since they were driven from tumblr with all the purges
And I never said they did it specifically for Undertale, just that most of the people sucking its wiener back then and right now are homosexual tourists and not in any way indicative of core Ganker opinions, otherwise I could hire shill farms to blow smoke up any game's ass here and claim that Ganker always loved them
I was literally here you moron, go gaslight your mom
I was also here homosexual, and I got booted from this website shortly after the game released.
Take a guess why.
Surely you remember why knower of things.
I miss muffet..
>muh heckin quirky 4chinz contrarian basket-weaving sikrit club xD
kys
You really need to go back to tumblr
You were never around for Ganker's "Tumblr hate" period. Hating Tumblr is proof of that, /b/'s conclusion was that Tumblr and Ganker were both full of basement dwellers, so they should all frick eachother.
>/misc/ homosexuals stayed here didn't they,
Tumblr has a neo-Nazi problem explicitly because of the /misc/ influx. They "stayed here" insofar as they're capable of using both websites.
>especially since they were driven from tumblr with all the purges
They went to Twitter because of Tumblr's porn ban, they didn't come here. The extent of their activity here was to self-victimize, post the screencaps to Tumblr, and then accidentally expose themselves in doing it.
>just that most of the people sucking its wiener back then and right now are homosexual tourists and not in any way indicative of core Ganker opinions,
Ganker isn't a hivemind, Black person.
>Ganker isn't a hivemind
That doesn't change the fact horsefrickers were nigh universally hated, just as normalgay "bro" shooters, just as brown and bloom AAA games, just as Nintendo kiddie shit, etc, and hating Tumblr shit, Homestuck shit, indie shit, and lolsorandom humor were all almost part of board culture, so when Toby's game came out and was "warmly received", it was obvious there was outside intervention involved.
>Nintendo kiddie shit,
*settle down Sony warrior
>hating Tumblr shit,
*hating Tumblr neo-crystal gender warriors and getting ass-blastingly mad about red noses
>Homestuck shit,
*hating Homestuck General and Homestuck's descent into shit, somebody doesn't remember Sburb threads that we still have if they're not banned on sight
>indie shit,
*Phil Fish and the indie games conferences that tried to propel people like him to superstardom
this post makes me realize how many games actually started on Ganker and became huge, Honestly without this place many games such as Minecraft and DR even Undertale woudln't got the traction in the first place
You're the moron sticking out here though.
Except 90% of players got the ending where the core message is that you were a good person.
But I'm not a good person anon
Skill issue
What's the deal with the forced lesbian romance?
toby's fetish
Supposed to be a parody of forced shipping in the first game but Toby missed the mark and it ended up being the hamfisted romance it was parodying. Ironically Undyne is often compared to Vriska who's a similar "Mary Sue parody" that completely missed the mark, became Hussie's favorite, and turned into an unironic version of the thing he was complaining about. Mostly, this is because Hussie has no fricking idea of how to write anything beyond a "vibe" he's trying to represent.
>Undyne is often compared to Vriska
Why? They have no similarities at all apart from the eyepatch and not being afraid to speak their mind.
She has a similar-ish personality but without the fifty billion narcissistic traits and unironic author favoritism.
>waaaah waaaah game called me a mean word 🙁
lmao homosexual grow some skin
i just got to the flower boss and gave up, tried only twice and decided to watch the ending on youtube, no way i'm learning 50 new minigame patterns what a chore
git gud
no
It's only pretending to be a hard fight. It's actually impossible to fail it because your progress on the fight is saved after every death
wait, who, flowey? are you for real? I hope not
There's checkpoints every 2 souls.
Don't worry anon I had to look this up because I don't lose.
Anon, that fight was beaten by just staying still. It's extremely lenient. As long as you can dodge a few times you will win.
>mixels
literally taking a microscope to the game's sprites for something to complain about
Someone needs glasses
Also he's wrong because the bottom of the heart is just made up of 4x4s of the smaller pixels.
>Player is bad.
>And that's ok!
>Protagonists tricked you into doing bad things
Name 10 games for this feel
>character can't be redeemed so you leave em to rot forever, you get no choice in the say
frick toby for this trope
>character is dead by all rights for an unspecified but very long amount of time
His good ending is getting True and then stopping.
For all intents and purposes, Asriel is dead. The only thing you can do to help is respect his wishes.
hes still alive in flower form at least but making so hes the only one left in the mountain is like a punishment and feels bad man. I want to visit the flower
>hes the only one left in the mountain
well we don't know that everyone left
he's genocided everybody in there countless times and stopped thinking of them as living beings relatively quickly
the flower deserves the lighter
>he
flowey is female according the owmer
>implying Ralsei isn't Flowey that pulled a Judas
what's the significance of gerson being an anagram for "goners"?
You have the choice to be both very good and very bad though. The point is that humans can beat monsters very easily.
>its a missed one NPC so you have to restart from the very beginning episode
I want it out soon but also hope it takes longer so that I'm not behind when it comes out
I know you read these threads, Tobias Foxworth. Where the frick are the new chapters?
https://deltarune.com/ch3
Keep this between you and me 😉
I won't feel bad for butchering these psychotic critters. In fact, it is my duty as a human to conquer (with violence or wiener) every other living being I come across.
If God didn't wanted them to be slaughtered, they wouldn't be a bunch of crying sissies unable to fend for themselves.
the monster cries out in pain as he strikes you
just like you cum in pain when i frick you
If there was ever such a thing as a groomer game, Undertale is it and this thread is the proof
If there was ever such a thing as a double gay anon, this anon is it and this post is the proof
10 months since Chapter 2
I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE Ganker
10 months already?
jesus christ
>Be a Human in a world where Humans are enemies of Monsters
>Monsters fight you because you're human
>OP: "NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOOOU AREEN'T ALLOOOWWWED TOO DOOOOOOO THAAAAAT *screams and shits his pants while smashing his keyboard with his limp wrists*."
Does anyone have that supposedly leaked Susie fight theme?
That was quick as shit. Thanks.
i have an undertale/deltarune link of stuff, its saved there
>Spec Ops for furro zoomers
Undertale never suggests the player is bad, by the way. This thread is silly.
It does
It does not. The game only mocks players who try to have their cake and eat it too by going back to a "happy ending" after proving that you don't concern yourself with the opinions of data. This convenient hypocrisy is mocked, not the player.
So it mocks players for trying to play the game
>noooo i need muh good ending after killing them all noooooo
Cool of you to admit you were wrong
It mocks Black folk for their Black person behavior.
No, only for playing it nonsensically.
And it doesn't say "you're bad/evil", it says "you are a silly person".
Frick the pretentious dev who thinks he can tell me if I'm playing "nonsensically"
Deal with it you silly nerd.
So you were lying, you really are a piece of shit
No, I am clear and coherent. It never calls you evil, but it does call you silly.
And you are silly.
You are literally only called evil if you do the genocide route and kill a frick ton of monsters which is reasonable. Even if you just killed the royal guards that are pursing you, you are literally told how to deal with them without killing them by Undyne. sans basically spell it out for you if you kill Papyrus. The player automatically being evil in either game is lazy thinking because they're the source of the pacifist route in both games.
So it does call you evil, nice to clear that up
"It" does not. The game does not call you anything.
"G... GUESS SHE SHOULD HAVE WORKED MORE ON THE DEFENSES...
...
YOU MAY HAVE DEFEATED ME... BUT...
I KNOW. I CAN TELL FROM THAT STRIKE, DARLING.
YOU WERE HOLDING BACK.
YES, ASGORE WILL FALL EASILY TO YOU...
BUT YOU WON'T HARM HUMANITY, WILL YOU?
YOU AREN'T ABSOLUTELY EVIL.
IF YOU WERE TRYING TO BE, THEN YOU MESSED UP.
AND SO LATE INTO THE SHOW, TOO.
HA... HA. AT LEAST NOW, I CAN REST EASY.
KNOWING ALPHYS AND THE HUMANS WILL LIVE ON...!"-Mettaton Neo on a failed genocide run.
That is not "the game" calling you anything. That is Mettaton.
>LV
>Oh dont worry thats just Level of Violence
It tells me how much of a scumbag you are
>Exp?
>Oh those are your execution points
>I SEE YOU KILLED MANY CREATURES
>YOU REALLY ARE A PIECE OF SHIT
holy shit kino why has no one ever done this before?
Toby fox does it again
>You are literally only called evil if you do the genocide route and kill a frick ton of monsters
No, even then the game does not make a judgement call upon you, the player. Sans thinks the anomaly is a bastard, sure, but that's his prerogative, owing to his limited senses.
The only entity that acknowledges the player is Chara, and Chara does not think you are evil for doing genocide.
You are called evil by several people in the underground because of your rampage. Like I said before, the player is the source of the pacifist and genocide route so it makes sense for the game to react appropriately depending on what you do in game. I don't know why this is hard to understand. Asriel and Chara acknowledges the player. Asriel obvously doesn't judge because he's basically a mirror to a completionist player which Toby DOES poke fun at with "Don't you have anything better to do?" You and Chara are basically partners in crime. I shouldn't have to tell why they're both evil because moral relativism can only be stretched for so long before its used to justify any action a person takes and their backstory does them no favors in that regards.
>You are called evil by several people in the underground because of your rampage
No you aren't.
Frisk is. Because as far as they can tell, Frisk is running around killing them with a knife.
None of these characters perceive you, so none of them can make judgement calls upon you.
Do you not understand that you are not Frisk?
>You and Chara are basically partners in crime. I shouldn't have to tell why they're both evil
Chara isn't evil at all.
The perception really doesn't matter because at the end of the day, you're making that decision so you can't pin it squarely on Frisk.
>Chara isn't evil at all
They only show up on the genocide route and wanted to use Asriel to kill people on the surfaces for whatever reason when Asgore EXPLICTLY told them that they and Asriel are the future of monsters and human because of their bond and that monsters were filled with hope of coexisting on the surface with humans. What is exactly evil to you?
>mixels
Zoomers are delusional lmao
not even Spec Ops The Line gays are this defensive
>say stupid shit
>someone calls you stupid
>YOU ARE LE DEFENSIVE
nice try gay
Are you gonna tell me you aren't killing on self defense too?
When sans says you do?
And if you were to only kill in self defense, nobody calls you evil. Sans just says "yeah ok" and you leave and you get your neutral ending.
Sure, you're killing in self defense. Now what?
Is it really self defense if you can rewind time back to when you were never hurt?
yeah, i am gonna let my head get ripped apart, my torso torn by spears, boned to death, burned by volcanic fragments to death, zapped, eaten by spider pets etc etc
just because even tho I feel pain and fricking die i can go back to die again
after all, I am the bad guy if I don't get fricking killed right?
how did you know?
>yeah, i am gonna let my head get ripped apart, my torso torn by spears, boned to death, burned by volcanic fragments to death, zapped, eaten by spider pets etc etc
Wow, that happened to you?
What kind of computer do you have? It must be a pretty good one to stab you with spears.
That happened to Frisk, idiot. Not you. You're not Frisk.
Lmao, literally spec ops the line arguments
good job zoomie
>No you're not forced to do bad thing
>you're just tricked to do it, which unless you have played it before you're basically forced to do it
oh, alright
how about you don't go around shooting volcanic fragments to a kid?
>how about you don't go around shooting volcanic fragments to a kid?
but they do it to each other all the time and they're fine
yeah, and I go around smacking people with books all the time and they dont die
>therefore, I an immortal time god, should kill anyone who hits me with a book, instead of showing them the error of their ways, which is easily doable in a minute or two
>Lmao, literally spec ops the line arguments
You can be moronic in two ways at once, who knew.
>which unless you have played it before you're basically forced to do it
Or you can just not do it lmao
>The perception really doesn't matter because at the end of the day, you're making that decision so you can't pin it squarely on Frisk.
Yes, but the characters in the story cannot perceive that. They thusly cannot accuse you of anything.
>They only show up on the genocide route and wanted to use Asriel to kill people on the surfaces for whatever reason
Oh hey look at that "for whatever reason" that you decide to willfully ignore.
>Not to mention the fact that if you don't wanna fight toriel, you can just run away
which triggers special dialogue and a cutscene if you go to sleep telling you to fight her
yeah, totally not forced to do it.
jesus and god did it, why can't I?
are they evil too?
>jesus and god did it, why can't I?
>are they evil too?
If a being is All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Seeing, letting evil exist is an evil act.
>yeah, totally not forced to do it.
Indeed not. Continue to be moronic.
>Lmao, literally spec ops the line arguments
LMAO not an argument
alphoomer detected
>If you had some sort of *special power*... isn't it your responsibility to do the right thing?
Spec Ops: The Line actually forces you to do ~THE BAD THING~ though.
>You're forced to do the bad thing
Yeah, let's casually not mention the fact Undertale asspulls the fact you kill toriel at half health just to get the shock reaction of flowey calling you a murderer. also the fact you have to kill asgore first run
That's not forcing you to do anything. Tricking you, but not forcing. Inequivalent.
You do not have to kill Asgore. Also Flowey will fault you for anything at all because he's a c**t.
To be fair I never took a swing at Toriel so I wasn't really aware of it at the time. You don't have to kill Asgore but Flowey will murder him anyway. Flowey will basically mess with you regardless of what you do.
the saddest thing about the neutral ending is, even if you "kill" flowey in a previous run (so he doesn't show up until the end), asgore will kill himself so you can leave and find a way to free the monsters without having to die
The difference between Spec Ops and Undertale/Deltarune is that by playing Spec Ops, you are already doing the bad thing. In Undertale/Deltarune, you have to go out of your way to do evil and no, getting stuck with Kris and going through the game in the condition with them isn't evil no matter how much the fandom will say the "woe is Kris" shit without figuring out WHY this has happened.