I propose a new genre label for games like Starcraft so we can differentiate them from RTS and proper strategy games.
These games basically revolve around resource collecting, base building and tactics, RBT.
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You're moronic. Shit thread.
or the T can also mean tankrushing
I'm pretty much an old man now, but I haven't played starcraft remastered even though I played it lots with friends when I was in high school. I'm sure there was a reason why I didn't I just forgot.
RBT is different to RTS in that RBT has a greater emphasis on simple econ sim gameplay and less strategic depth than other strategy games. Instead a greater emphasis on tactics of the units you control.
Think you could name some other example games that would fit this new genre you're proposing and any game that you would define as RTS? Frankly I don't completely understand everything you're trying to say, OP.
C&C
Warcraft
etc
Basicalky every game with resource nide harvesting and base building as a defining feature. Like the classic Dune game.
node*
Okay, so:
>StarCraft
>WarCraft
>Command & Conquer
Those game and similiar titles are considered "RBT" but now what's considered "RTS" to you?
Would Rome and Medieval II Total War count or what?
RTS is everything else including RBT. RTS is an umbrella term, RBT is a specific term.
I think this will improve dialogue, people can very clearly articulate they like basebuilder rts with an acronym RBT
>C&C
>Warcraft
>etc
Right so the games that created the RTS genre have to be called something else because you have autism. Good thinking.
well we no longer consider Wolfenstein 3d the quintessential example of fps either kiddo. Even Quake and UT lost that spot.
But it's still an FPS
Ok you are clearly an underage sperg being moronic go frick yourself you trolling simpleton. Stop wasting peoples time with your angry outbursts
>underage sperg
>Defending the original titles that created a genre. From being renamed by ADHD children that need unique titles for everything
Yeah right. At least call me an overage sperg. Take your ritalin and go browse tik tok or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei
First RTS ever had no basebuilding or resource gathering. You are wrong.
Warcraft style games didnt create the genre they were simply one off shoot of the genre.
That still doesn't explain why you need a new name for the majority of games in the genre.
NTA, but I guess to differentiate games like C&C from games like Wargame. I think.
Exactly, in the interest of clarity someone can say what RTS do you like? a RBT fan can say "RBT" it instantly communicates what they are talking about with zero confusion.
The problem is whether or not it would catch on not what makes sense for you right now. Users would be walking into a thread "I like RBT" and be like wtf are you taking about?
>Looks it up
>Doesn't show up on Google.
>Ask that one guy who's using it
Oh starcraft
>Walks away thinking he's a moron for using his own made up terms to needlessly categorize a genre with 5 games in it
RBT fans already use it since they keep defining resource gathering and base building as the genre they like.
Literally its just the terms they use made into an acronym.
no one fricking does that.
t. plays starcraft, warcraft, aoe/aom, c&c/ra, stronghold, ron, dow and used to play some currently dead games fitting the description
Bullshit i see it used all the time
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTimeStrategy/comments/qegwn4/will_classic_rts_basebuilding_and_resource/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/is-proper-base-building-rts-games-a-thing-of-the-past.2462683/
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=459827
some dumbshit on wiki
>real time tactics, not real time strategy[edit]
real time strategy is about base building and or resource management. real time tactics is not. this game have no resource management or basebuilding and that makes it real time tactics.84.212.107.130 (talk) 12:56, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
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reply
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Fixed. Thanks. Bertaut (talk) 14:33, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
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HUNDREDS OF REFERENCES LIE MORE
so who's using that "RBT" acronym, you fricking moron? It's nothing new that starcraft-likes used to and kinda still are the genre-defining games for RTS.
ban evading ESL moron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym
What is your deal? why are you terrified your favourite subgenre will get a clear label?
>RBT fans already use it
Pls anon, you only just created it. You openly said that in the OP. I don't understand what you're doing. You're confusing me.
do you know what an acronym is you shitposting dumbshit?
Clearly we can see here
that this terminology is used
>Clicked the links
>Ctrl+f RBT
>No results on each of them
Please, you have to explain what you're doing.
>op clearly says he has coined an acronym
>based on terminology used by RBT fans
>drooling moron moron: i can't find any reference to this acronym.
>op clearly says he has coined an acronym
Yes. But then see:
and
Where he says people are already using it despite him coining the term in the OP.
Are you intellectually disabled? Why can't you be honest. What is the real reason you are having a melt down over RBT games being defined?
You are an esport shill aren't you?
I have no problem with your term, fren. I'm confused by the way you keep saying people use it already when you just created it.
Im not op, stop making this about the person. The point is the terms are already in use, the acronym isn't but the terms that make up the acronym are,
No one said the acronym is in use already.
Okay, I'm on the same page now. I disagree.
ok so you are just trolling gotcha
I would never.
RBT games are not the majority of games in the genre
I noticed in most RTS discussion nowadays theres a lot of confusion that didn't exist 20 years ago.
With people using generalised terms to mean specific things incorrectly. For example RTS to mean RBT.
I'm aware that on some level this is being done deliberately by some group of autistic trolls to muddy the waters of discussion on RTS and promote basebuilding over newer or different RTS
Wait, but you proposed the term RBT just now in the OP. So why would you get mad at people not using it if you only just invented it?
I'm honestly going to assume people that refuse to use specific intelligent informative acronyms/labels as trolls with a vested interest in harming the genre.
This confusion didn't exist in the 1990s and early 00s and has appeared as post 2000 revisionism.
By people trying to reinvent the wheel. I feel this has contributed to the decline in RTS as a whole by confusing people on what RTS are and the diverse range of games under that umbrella.
But how can they refuse to use the term if they don't know it because you invented it 2 hours ago. Anon, you're not making any sense!
Are you serious? reality is fewer and fewer basebuilder games or "RBT" are being made anymore compared to the greater number of newer rts.
>RTS but with no base building
That already exists, doesn't it? It's Real Time Tactics, RTT for short.
RTT isn't really a real genre but now we have RBT a clearer way to differentiate basebuilders from other RTS
Since basebuilders are more tactics games and the games mislabelled "RTT" by trolls are more strategy games.
RTT is a completely stupid label made up by trolling asiaticclick autists to try to say traditional RTS are not RTS and only basebuilding and resource gathering games are RTS. Even though the acronym RTS in no way implies basebuilding and resource gathering, it doesn't communicate that at all. This is rather a convention that a select few autists decided on themselves.
And 'OP' in no way implies homosexualry, yet here we are. Not a single person was confused by RTS/RTT distinction ever before, and it's just you samegayging about it.
Why are you lying zoomer? RTT didn't exist as a term in the 90s and early 00s the oldest entry for it on wiki is in 2008.
No one used the term RTT to advertise their games or describe games.
Its a new invention by lying autistic dipshits such as yourself.
Its not even being applied correctly its been using in reverse of the actual meanings, strategic games being called tactics games
You are the one samegayging by spreading this stupid made up term all over the internet you schizo autist.
Bullshit. No one uses "RTT" it's being retroactively applied to RTS games without base-building by autistic dumbasses like you.
There already exists a term for all these games called RTS. Why are you complaining about OP creating a clearer sub-genre while pushing a divide in the genre. You are creating confusion to troll.
literally no one ever used RTT to describe RTS games you idiot.
Only example i know of is Chris Taylor saying Starcraft style games should be called Real time tactics.
If you are using it to mean non-Starcaft style games are "RTT" you are deliberately switching the meaning around.
>no one was confused
>divide the genre with a made up term from around 2010 homosexual
Real Base Tactics.
So what would Pikmin be? It has tactics but not base building.
not RBT for starters wiki defines it as a puzzle rts.
>real time strategy is about base building and or resource management.
The audacity of these morons
Why don't they just play a city planning sim
Well, it has been part of many RTS games for a long time so it's something that one might expect when going into one.
Ordering the demolition of condemned buildings isn't the same as ordering military units to raze an enemy base, besides who's going to attack the economic structures and units if any exist in a city planning sim?
...
Actually, would it be a bad idea for a vidya? You play as a military governor or something or other and have to build and manage a city when once in awhile you have to use whatever forces under your command to deal with organized criminals, terrorists, or even just holdout against foreign invaders. Maybe there's already something like that out there I don't know.
Anyways, so OP's just trying to introduce a new term or acronym and is there any real issue with that?
:/ I'm not entirely sold on it but maybe it's not a bad thing he's trying to introduce idk.
the acronym RTS in no way indicates basebuilding and resource gathering, this is a convention assumed by fans of those games.
In means real time as opposed to turnbased and strategy implies warfare, the control of an army.
It means*
That's more or less what I said, anon, that base building and resource gathering is something that one MIGHT expect when going into an RTS game. The core gameplay of the Total War games for example, the RTS battles that are also the focus of multiplayer, don't feature resource gathering or base building so I understand that RTS does not necessarily mean those things but it is something that one may expect or "assume" going into an RTS game considering how prolific it is in other RTS games.
>total war
>where the only thing 'real time' is the battles, which you autoresolve anyway most of the time
>RTS
nah frick off
The primary focus is real time strategic battles so yes it is RTS.
Your opinion is irrelevant.
Thank you, anon.
You saved me from making a statement based around Sole Survivor.
Well, it's just something that's common for RTS so it is also expected sometimes which is all I was trying to say.
I'm not a StarCraft fanboy, I haven't even finished the original game yet or even played Brood War for that matter, and I'm not trying to maintain a status quo or undermine innovation in the genre that my first vidya was a part of.
>keeps posting sc images and weaselly supporting a nonsensical definition
You are a lying trolling fanboy.
I'm not a troll or a fanboy and I already explained before that it's just something that's expected sometimes that's all. I only posted three images related to StarCraft the other two were from Command & Conquer, anon.
Verification not required. If that helps in anyway.
c'mon your trolling is obvious.
No, anon, I'm not.
usually when you have an acronym its informative. RTS in no way conveys this meaning to an average person.
Its literally just some chucklefricks who do not like RTS other than basebuilders decided upon.
>when you have an acronym its informative
Genre names are pretty dumb actually. You have RPGs without roleplaying, point-and-click adventure games that aren't particularly adventurous, or sports games that have you sit your ass down the entire game.
There is a lot of nonsensical terminology everywhere you look but if the name sticks and everyone understands what it means, then there's no discussion about the implications of the actual words used.
RTS always meant strategy games with real-time action and base building. It's only recently that people started using it outside that scope for everything and anything like city builders, MOBA, grand strategy, warsims, Commandos-clones, tower defense, etc. Just trying to find one on Steam gets you tons of mistagged games. Perhaps the name does sound generic which is where the confusion is coming from.
However, because the term is so well-entrenched despite misuse, I doubt RBT is going to stick at all.
not really, strategy games got their name from copying table top strategy games. Same with rpgs
>However, because the term is so well-entrenched despite misuse, I doubt RBT is going to stick at
well if an autist can force RTT decades after the games, RBT will do just fine.
usually an acronym and genre name is pretty precise at least this was the case during 90s/00s gaming. Until zoomers found out about this stuff.
RTS meant real time strategy, FPS first person shooter etc.
Now you have people looking back at games trying to reinvent the wheel.
Saying RTS are games with base building and resources is the dumbest thing i've ever seen. May as well say city builder games are RTS
Its curious how you people that insist on this full moron definition are always SC fanboys.
Its because you want to maintain the status quo and undermine innovation in the genre.
Games with oit the warfare can be called RBS resource gathering and basebuilding simulation.
The longer I spend on this board, the more I start to wonder if it's filled with either a super vocal minority of moronic trolls and autists that think they have friends here or that it's all full of morons. Then again Ganker these days seems to have gotten filled by literal nazis, assbreathing morons, the shittiest kind of trolls who can't even make a decent bait post anymore without making shill posts to try to hype themselves up, actual trannies and braindead shitters who can barely autonomously breath for themselves without their handler having to tell them constantly and also AI training farms.
Whether or not I agree with you depends on how you answer this question.
Are you pro-RBT or anti-RBT?
No, stop adding even more useless designations for a genre that's already too niche yet bloated with so many subgenres so as to make it meaningless. Your not gonna find that much if any games that would fit it without doing some hackneyed adjusting and mental gymnastics for it to fit. Also RBT is a shit acronym and you should feel bad for even thinking about it at the first place.
Its not a useless designation its a highly accurate and clarifying description of the subgenre.
Meanwhile "RTT" makes no sense and is trying to say only basebuilding games are RTS.
Show us on the doll where the construction yard touched you, anon
>shit acronym
>is literally just the terms basebuilder gays use to describe their genre.
your brain is shit
So you're anti-RBT then. That's all I needed, friend. I agree with you and your opinions.
>completely shit your pants
>start seething at nazis
Can you just frick off and die
Black person I've been here since late 2011, ever since hiroshimoot and 2016 happened the fricking IQ of an average Gankerner dropped down to literal room temperature levels and it sure as shit didn't help when the Stormfront website shut down and drew those dipshits here. Besides what are you anyways a Neo-nazi, an Antifa homosexual, or a marxist trying to be edgy.
Jfc homosexual its time to stop posting.
why am i not surprised the autist group pushing "RTT" are the same gays seething at their favourite sub-genre being given a label.
I think it would be great if every basebuilding RTS got tagged as RBT as well as a wiki page to list them all.
RBT games:
Warcraft series
Starcraft series
C&C series
AoE series
Dark Reign series
Lets list them all
Act of War ?
I'm not partaking in this thread anymore.
I just call them Classic RTS, as an older subgenre of RTS tree.
You build a base to collect resources somebody left next to the road.
RTT is also a more distinct subgenre, since
>Men of War
>World in Conflict
>Ground Control
I call games like
>DoW1&2
>CoH
>Homeworld
>Universe at War
just RTS since they do not use standard resources and extraction methods, but still have a base/teching/production
RTT was made up by some wiki editors ot doesn't mean anything.
It means something
unlike RBT
Stop this shit
moron redditors shilling made up terms can foad
RTT literally means nothing its a reactionary term to newer RTS being developed.
Stop replying to mentally ill.
stop shitting up our board with spam you dumbfrick
I propose that you have a nice day.
Games like Wargame, Broken Arrow, TW these are what we call RTS.
They focus on real time strategy.
Starcraft and C&C are what we call RBT. They focus on base-building and mining and are more tactical.
>we
i'm all for this term it makes a lot of sense.
Base building and resource gathering without combat is RBS
Resource gathering, Base building, Sim
Report the deranged autist and move on:
5 5s, reporting!
OP is actually unironically mentally ill. Scary shit.
it's catching on
C&C generals is a goat RBT
Base building in order to unlock and create new units is a part of a long term planning called strategy. Therefore games with base building are RTS and those don't have it are not. This was always clear to everyone
RTT was created to distinguish new games like Total War or Men of War that are devoid of long term planning and as such strategy and is good enough and clear label that already catched one and was being used for years. Creating a new label because you are assblasted shitter seething across the entire board is pathetic
This is revisionist zoomer history. Games in the 90s and 00s without base building were called RTS. They were sold and marketed as RTS.
Even today games which are being mislabelled as "RTT" are being reviewed as RTS.
Can you tell me why you feel the need to go around the internet rewriting history? do you get some sort of ego trip redefining genres?
>This is revisionist zoomer history
As opposed to OP trying to rename RTS defining games as not RTS? RTT was created to distinguish new games that are not like the big three and that's why it makes sense and makes discussion easier
op isn't revising anything, hes not saying RBT games are not RTS, Hes saying RBT are a subgenre of RTS.
Where you are for reasons you will not reveal, lying and revising history you say RTS are not RTS unless they are like Starcraft.
>RTT was created to distinguish new games that are not like the big three
What about Herzog Zwei? It came out before Dune II, yet doesn't have basebuilding or resource gathering (instead it has existing fixed bases that can be conquered a bit like classic Warlords but real-time) but is usually called a RTS game. Should it be relabeled a RTT game? Or is it a MOBA?
Herzog Zwei is also ironically cited as inspiring all these games
Claiming all rts are like Dune and thats what a strategy game is, is basically a convention.
Like saying all fps have rocket launchers and if they don't they aren't fps.
>RTT was created
Good of you to admit it
>new games like Total War or Men of War
Unfortunately this is a lie. The term RTT was created at least 4 years after Men of War, 8 years after Total war.
Besides the original person to use the term Chris Taylor, used it explicitly as a criticism of games like Starcraft, games he was also making
>The first was my realizing that although we call this genre "Real-Time Strategy," it should have been called "Real-Time Tactics" with a dash of strategy thrown in."
as a wiki editor notes
>In the interview you refer to, Chris Taylor is talking about games like Total Annihilation, which use the collect resources-build units-battle model that is conventionally thought of as RTS and commenting on the lack of real strategy in the genre. He's not separating out "real-time tactics" as a different label with new criteria. I googled before I posted my comment, and couldn't find a single use as a genre label by any game magazine or major website.
How many years have you be lying like this kid?
been*
>Unfortunately this is a lie. The term RTT was created at least 4 years after Men of War, 8 years after Total war.
Why does it matter? How does it change anything? I don't care about your autistic wiki conspiracy.
>How many years have you be lying like this kid?
About what? You are seething over literally nothing.
Because it's more reasonable term that makes distinction clearer. AoE, C&C and Starcraft will always be considered THE RTS and nothing will erase years of people using only this label to refer to them. Be it on forums or in articles or reviews. Total War and Men of War are nothing like them so they may as well be categorized differently. Then autists like OP don't have to seethe about vast majority of RTS games being with base building when they enter RTS thread.
>lie
>get caught out lying
>"why does it matter"
what is your game c**t? you said a term was invented for newer games a decade after the bloody games.
>AoE, C&C and Starcraft will always be considered THE RTS and nothing will erase years
Oh please stfu you are an autistic child nostalgia gayging over your favourite genre.
Time to move on and stop playing this immature game of trying to sabotage the RTS genre because you are afraid of change.
Also get a shrink.
>get caught out lying
Lying about what moron? I never claimed that it always existed. RTS didn't exist since forever either, for that matter. RTS were dying and more and more games not like RTS were being created. So they were started to get called in a different way because they were not like AoE, starcraft or C&C. It's normal and natural.
>a term was invented for newer games a decade after the bloody games.
And this changes what exactly?
>Oh please stfu you are an autistic child nostalgia gayging over your favourite genre
My favorite series is Total War, followed by Dawn of War. Stronghold is cool as well. CK2 is the only Paradox game I care about
>Time to move on and stop playing this immature game of trying to sabotage the RTS genre because you are afraid of change.
An utterly meaningless drivel
enough of your autistic shit
why am i not surprised the "RTT" shills are triggered by this thread
I know this is a slow, boring board, and you're desperate to slam away on your keyboard, but if you're that good at baiting, you could use that gift to kickstart discussion on a worthwhile topic instead.
Also, RBT isn't real. You made it up and now keep spamming it because you're off your vitamins.
homosexuals who use "rtt" are extremely annoying, but making up another stupid acronym will not make things better
>I'm bothered by this article because even if the terms of the genre are clearly defined (which I haven't seen) for us to apply the label to games which their own makers didn't constitutes original research on our part. If a movie studio releases a comedy, and we feel the need to categorize it as a "screwball sex comedy" without reliance on a critic's opinion about the movie, we're doing our own research and projecting our own opinions to be the truth.
In my case, my personal definition of "tactical" means something entirely different from "you can't build shit" in a game, but this article claims its definition as gospel without citing a source, then applies it to a number of games that their publishers didn't apply it to themselves. Since that position's in dispute, the statements need support, and until we have the word of a critic to support it on all the games that the company didn't call RTT themselves, the tag is going back on.
RBT sounds like its trying to separate base building from RTS.
Its actually doing the opposite its clarifying what RTS these people like. Which is good for fans of these games.
>RBT
Random Breath Test? That acronym already exists. Try again. I recommend something like:
Resources
Tactics
Strategy
so what CBT means closed beta testing. The base building is important to the genre its what differentiates it from other RTS.
CBT also means Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. I was mildly aroused when my doctor suggested I get CBT.
they are doing it on purpose.
people that love RBT should embrace the term because it means you can clearly tell devs what sort of RTS you want.
But then devs will give me Rectum and Ball Torture.
Should have just called it Real time Tactical Battles or RTB.
any time a thread on this board gets 100+ posts in under a day, you know it's a fricking shit thread
>23 posters
We're all so autistic. It's endearing.
It's a bot arguing with itself mostly. AI shitpost threads will be a real menace real soon with how fast the technology is developing.
Resources, bases and tank rushing
the people using RTT are not even using the word tactics properly, which makes me think its ESLs doing it.
Tactics are squad level not army level. A game like War game is strategic not tactical focused. A game like Starcraft is tactically focused.
>Tactics are squad level not army level
Lol
strategy > tactics
Tactics is just maneuvering troops. Total War has zero strategy happening in real time. All strategy related features are part of a turn based campaign map. Strategy is decided before you get into a battle in them. Battles are solely tactical. Which is a term CA itself uses. "Tactical battles" and separately a "campaign map".
No, tactics is best described as what the individual troops do. Strategy is the overall plan of what you will do.
Tactics is a sub category pf strategy.
Total War is a strategy game and you are a moron
>Total War is a strategy game
On a campaign map
the real time battle is a strategy game its the same scale as a tabletop strategy game.
You blatantly do not understand English or what this genre is about.
>doesn't know what strategy or tactics means
lol
How come you don't know what strategy or tactics means, OP? That's a shame. Here, read the dictionary, educate yourself:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tactics
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strategy
You don't know what tactics and strategy means. You think a game like Wargame which is focused on strategy is tactics.
How can you even call yourself an RTS fan if you don't know what it means?
Stop crying and go back.
change your diaper zoomer
its redditors like you that keep using moronic terns
Strategy Vs. Tactics: The Difference
About 2,500 years ago, Chinese military strategist Sun Tzu wrote “The Art of War.” In it, he said, “Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” Tactics and strategy are not at odds with one another—they’re on the same team. (And they have been for many centuries!) Here’s how we define the tactical vs. the strategic:
Strategy defines your long-term goals and how you’re planning to achieve them. In other words, your strategy gives you the path you need toward achieving your organization’s mission.
Tactics are much more concrete and are often oriented toward smaller steps and a shorter time frame along the way. They involve best practices, specific plans, resources, etc. They’re also called “initiatives.”
You just btfo yourself moron
how are you fricking illiterate? it clearly says strategy is the overall battle plan and tactics are smaller scale.
you seriously are mentally ill are you korean?
>The Art of War
A reddit book. Reddit is owned by Tencent, and redditards gladly shill everything made by their Chinese overlords.
Carl von Clausewitz:
>Tactics are the use of armed forces in a particular battle, while strategy is the doctrine of the use of individual battles for the purposes of war.
>Strategy is concerned with defining an overall purpose and priorities. It is holistic. It clarifies how the individual battles fit together and why they are being fought. Strategy’s key role is to define a winning proposition, a rallying call from which all decisions and activities will cascade.
>To be clear, planning is also important. But it is not a substitute for strategy. We don’t create a strategy with a plan. We execute it with a plan. For example, your budget should be the financial expression of your strategy, not the reverse. The right sequence is essential: strategy first, planning afterwards.
OP is a redditard, got thoroughly btfod twice in two days and desperately needs to go back to his echo chamber website where he can valiantly downdoot everyone he disagrees with.
you are moronic stop trying to redefine what words mean ESL
Its well understood Strategy is used in a war and tactics are what troops do. The terns are not exclusive.
>exactly one minute difference between the posts
yep he mad
its the asiaticclicking anime tard again
mentally ill poltard
Unlike the OP, you're bringing up a worthy topic.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tactics
>the science and art of disposing and maneuvering forces in combat
Which is why games without base building and resources are called RTT: disposing and maneuvering forces in combat is all you do in such games.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strategy
>the science and art of employing the political, [b]economic[/b], psychological, and military forces of a nation or group of nations to afford the maximum support to adopted policies in peace or war
>the science and art of military command exercised to meet the enemy in combat under advantageous conditions
The second definition applies specifically to military and again says nothing about scale.
Let's also consider what actual military guys mean by tactics and strategy:
https://ndupress.ndu.edu/JFQ/Joint-Force-Quarterly-78/Article/607625/waffles-or-pancakes-operational-versus-tactical-level-wargaming/
>Simply put, the difference is a focus on what to do versus how to do it questions. This is important especially for operational-level planners because their level is the bridge that connects broad strategic guidance and aims toward tactical actions.
>Operational wargaming asks, “Are we doing the right things?” Tactical wargaming asks, “Are we doing things right?”
So in this terminology the macro aspect of RTS games falls into the operational layer and the act of managing troops - into the tactical level. Again, nothing about the scale here.
Here's how it was explained to me in the academy. We have an FOB supplied from a port by land. Supplying the FOB is a strategic need, because the FOB is necessary to conduct operations in the region.
There is a problem: bad guys positioned in a village overlooking the main supply route.
An operational level decision: eliminate the bad guys or choose another, safer path to the FOB.
A tactical level decision: bomb the bad guys or clear the village on foot.
Thats nice ad hominem gay but I am the op
>Which is why games without base building and resources are called RTT
No, thats stupid and makes no sense ESL-kun. As said earlier tactics isn't "don't build shit"
tactics
tăk′tĭks
noun
The study of the most effective ways of securing objectives set by strategy, as in deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft against an enemy.
Military actions or maneuvers used against an enemy.
A procedure or set of maneuvers engaged in to achieve an end, an aim, or a goal.
Strategy
The science and art of military command as applied to the overall planning and conduct of large-scale combat operations.
A plan of action resulting from strategy or intended to accomplish a specific goal. synonym: plan.
You are misusing words to suit your definition "RTT" shill
>I am the op
Thanks for confirming that you're samegayging all over this thread.
>no links to the sources
Also thanks for confirming that you're an esl moron. Hell, you're even ashamed to link your sources.
Seek medical help, it's never too late.
Well if it isn't the exact same asiaticclicker shitposting in every thread.
Why am i not surprised its asiaticclickers shilling these moron revisionist terms
Daily reminder that seething about apm outs you as a redditard.
Go back.
Strategy and tactics are closely related and exist on the same continuum; modern thinking places the operational level between them. All deal with distance, time and force but strategy is large scale, can endure through years, and is societal while tactics are small scale and involve the disposition of fewer elements enduring hours to weeks. Originally strategy was understood to govern the prelude to a battle while tactics controlled its execution. However, in the world wars of the 20th century, the distinction between maneuver and battle, strategy and tactics, expanded with the capacity of technology and transit. Tactics that were once the province of a company of cavalry would be applied to a panzer army.
It is often said that the art of strategies defines the goals to achieve in a military campaign, while tactics defines the methods to achieve these goals. Strategic goals could be "We want to conquer area X", or "We want to stop country Y's expansion in world trade in commodity Z"; while tactical decisions range from a general statement—e.g., "We're going to do this by a naval invasion of the North of country X", "We're going to blockade the ports of country Y", to a more specific "C Platoon will attack while D platoon provides fire cover".
Really Bad Time
(it looks like he has no arms)
>asiaticclickers don't know what strategy and tactics are
>think the difference is in building things
OP is an autist, but I agree that grouping strategy with base-building and tactics with no base-building is moronic.
So you agree that it would be better to come up with a specific term for basebuilding RTS
Personally I think they should be called Dune-likes. Apart from being the first, Dune II was the game where the resource-gathering and base-building mechanics made the most sense in-universe.
I think it would be difficult to change the terms now though, it's too ingrained.
dune-like is legitimately better
That's why the former are called RTS and the latter RTT. OP is simply buttmad about it because he thinks that tactics is less iq than strategy.
You can literally look on wiki and seeing that RTT was cooked up by some sweaty forum autists that didn't even care about sources.
The guy who coined the term used it for Starcraft style games you idiot
its a sneaky wikipedia trick where you basically appropriate a term thats maybe been used in the past then completely change the meaning and start referencing it by going back and retroactively applying it to things that fit your new definition. Its completely against the rules on wikipedia, its original research.
Yeah Chris Taylor literally coined RTT in 2005 explicitly to refer C&C and Warcraft/Starcraft style games as a criticism of these games. Not as a seperate genre.
Clearly tactics already referred to games like Commando series a squad level game.
So this new term "RTT" is completely made up and misused.
The strategy/tactics distinction in real-time gaming is a made-up distinction that doesn't make sense though. If you only use the base-building requisite, chess isn't a strategy game either, despite chess players differentiating between short-term tactics and long-term strategy.
the guy you are talking to may actually be the guy from wiki that made the term up over 10 years ago
by their definition tabletop strategy games are not strategy
Funnily enough they are typically at the scale of a TW battle
its because these made up terms are made up by asiaticclicker meta homosexuals, they don't play any RTS just watch SC
tactics used to mean explicitly a squad management game, hence Fallout Tactics. It doesn't apply to large scale war games.
OP didn't say anything about it. OP said basebuilders should be given a subgenre name.
Which is fair.
i knew that the "RTT" schizo who had been going around the net labelling every RTS "RTT" would be drawn out by this thread.
>don't play any RTS just watch SC
weird projection coming from a schizo who keeps posting artosis and samegayging instead of discussing games he plays
>anime asiaticclicker replies
Good thread
>Chris Taylor literally coined RTT in 2005
The schizo lies as he breathes desperately trying to prove his point. The schizo doesn't realize that he's been owned, all his points have been destroyed, and the more he talks, the more he looks like a clown.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2001-first-impression-myth-iii/1100-2762016/
>By Sam Parker on May 18, 2001
>The fast-paced real-time tactics
https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/total-annihilation-review/1900-2535174/
>By Ron Dulin on October 1, 1997
>a game where many players will bring tried-and-true real-time tactics
https://www.gamewatcher.com/interviews/ground-control-2-operation-exodus-interview/11556
>02 November 2003
>Ground Control 2 is a real-time tactics (RTT) game
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/structuring-key-design-elements
>April 11, 2003
>First, what is your game's genre, such as adventure, role-playing game (RPG), real-time strategy (RTS), real-time tactical (RTT)
No ones lying "rtt" moron troll you just can't read.
The first article is just some guys opinion looking back at the games. Myth was sold as a RTS.
All these articles are just idiot journos who don't know wtf they are talking about
or people not even defining what RTT is.
Also all strategy games have tactics the two are not independent.
As per wiki its original research if you retroactively apply a made up label to
Chris Taylor was the first game developer to suggest Dune style games be called RTT and explained what the difference was.
I really like RBT
If you mean RBT is Really Big Tittys
And there is definitely not enough RBT in our strategies
Verification not required.
Ribbit
Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal!
More like a RPC (rock paper cissors) so its that
Is RPC an strategy game? No? Then why SC2 is considered so?
What's a good example of a game in the RCT genre? (RCT meaning resource collecting, cringe-building and tactics)
Honestly, never seen the phrase "Real Time Tactics" and its acronym "RTT" until I came to this board.
it's because its a made up thing being forced by one autist.
Its the same sort of gay that uses "Gameplay loop"
That's a good one, not as good as polish thought guilds THOUGH. I better see this shit forced in every single RTS thread OP.
Damn, that other thread calling APMlets out for being shit at strategy games really left a mark huh?
There is no such thing as a real time strategy game. There is no strategy involved in any real time game, it's purely tactics.
RBT games are very weak in the strategy department
Games that have 0 building are even less strategic.
>strategy games are where you "build shit"
moron
>t. guy who says that building shit is tactics and that games without building are strategy games
Sounds like OP's been filtered by having to build and macro. LOL.
Tactics is a component of RBT. Otherwise if you argue building things is strategy does that make city builder games strategy?
> does that make city builder games strategy?
Yes.
Anon city building games are sims not RTS games.
They literally are. Planning and building a city requires strategic thought.
they are not. They are sims where you are not fighting an enemy just simulating a city.
>Strategy
>A plan of action resulting from strategy or intended to accomplish a specific goal.
Strategy implies a war game in context. Its why city builders are not called RTS
Sane with tactics.
>Its why city builders are not called RTS
They are though.
they are not
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCity
Stop trying to bend definitions to suit you
glad you can admit you "people" are just city builder spergs.
If you want to play city builders just play city builders? instead if crying every war game has to have a sims component.
>esl-kun is back from his minimum wage job raging on /vst/ from dusk to midnight
>again
>just like he did in the thread calling out apmlets
>gets btfo
>asiaticclicker asiatic starts ironically calling everyone esl
Did I hit a nerve, brainlet-chan? Shame your malnourished autistic peabrain can't comprehend what the word "strategy" means.
don't you have a asiaticclick game to watch low iq-kun
city builders, economy games and colony sims are absolutely strategy.
just on a different field.
^
t. shitter
so all classic RTS are in fact strategy, thanks for confirming. APMlets BTFO
Wasn't saying they weren't strategy, it just seems to be me that there's not much difference between the term "strategy" or "tactics".
Strategy and tactics are inseparable
Strategy is > tactics.
its basically a scale thing. Tactics are what you employ at a smaller scale, like tacticool squad combat. Strategy is at a grander scale of many battalions.
Tactics is nestled in Strategy
No the strategy/plan in most classic RTSs is already set: Destroy the enemies' bases through attrition.
The way you secure that objective is just tactics. A lot of so called "strategy" games are just tactics games.
I know this is Ganker, but how much of a fricking loser do you have to be to care this much about what you categorize a game genre as. Try producing some other activities from your autistic brains that are way more entertaining, interesting, and productive. It's not too hard.
Exactly, calling a genre RBT isn't a big issue.
So far it just seems to generate division, anon, maybe it's best to let it go and move on.
I'm sold on it meaning "Really Big breasts", RTS might as well mean "Really Tight Sex", and I can't think of anything for RTT so it sucks more than it likely did before.
>only losers care about genre categorising
>NO YOU CANT USE AN ACRONYM
why would anyone be upset at their favourite sub genre getting a proper label? Unless they were severely autistic
Why would anyone spend one iota of their time and energy thinking about this autistic stuff by themselves in the first place, let alone starting internet fights over it with other autists.
I was skeptical about it because when I first saw it in previous threads it was used disparagingly:
https://arch.b4k.co/vst/search/text/rbt/order/asc/
I warmed up a little to it after it was explained what it meant but as far as I've seen so far of this thread and others it and I assume along with RTT has only promoted needless infighting so I believe it is best that the two terms be abandoned entirely.
RTT is someones bitter idea of a troll from ten years ago, intentionally divisive.
RBT is the opposite, it's seeking greater clarity in RTS discussion.
Beats me why anyone would object to this unless they had an ulterior motive
It's the other way around.
RTT was created to distinguish games that are not like other RTS by giving them their own label.
Abomination in OP is artificially pushed by a shitposter shitter seething about "asiaticclickers" since the board inception
Except its completely wrong. the idiots using it are calling strategic games tactics while more tactical games strategy.
They are also retroactively relabelling RTS as RTT
Really thick tushy
You're arguing over genre labels as well, moron.
what about Real-time, Base-building and Tactics.
Change the R to a C
Command Base Tactics
CBT
>Really Boring Threads
So is OP going to ever say what RBT actually is an acronym of? I mean, we know he is trolling so nobody actually cared enough to ask, but I''d like an explanation regardless.
More or less the top of pic related but I prefer the bottom.
Why do all you autistic fricks care about whether one guy calls games RBT, what's wrong with you?
Genius