warno looks promising, but it's early access though eugen has been pretty good about its last 2 games.
red dragon is alright and has a decent amount of people playing it, but the homosexualry is immense in many ways.
WARNO is much better than Red Dragon plus RD already has a dying playerbase. At the moment SD2 is much better but WARNO might be good after the current changes they are working on.
Don't go with with the expectation that they are realistic or proper wargames. At best they're the spiritual successor of WiC. Get WARNO since RD is dying and full of absolute cancer and minmax cheese
is WGRD actually dying? i thought it had the most stable playerbase of eugen games. is it due to warno slowly getting more content?
warno is catching up (big spike with the latest update) but still consistently under at least for now. the post-update regression hasnt been as bad as i would have guessed.
When I play in the evenings usually 500-600 people are on according to the in-game chart, when Oudinot game out it was like 1400.
IMO good shot Warno eclipses current WGRD consistently after it leaves early access and gets a 1.0 full release
WRD is the last game that was made when Eugen still had competent developers. After that it was a downward spiral of one shit game after another. SD2 is garbage with unbalanced maps, unbalanced cashgrab divisions, absolutely broken combined arms, and tons of shitty game mechanics to top it off. Whatever miniscule playerbase still remains in this game is 70% wehraboo redditards and 30% scrubs who got filtered by WRD.
1 year ago
Anonymous
yeah, I really tried to like SD2. The campaign seems like my ideal game. I love that strategic to tactical transition. But for the love of God I cant enjoy it at all, and I dont know why. It just feels OFF
1 year ago
Anonymous
Same here - I think it’s because every battle feels samey- you use the same tactics every time for a given side
>/k/ >incels
you are crazy, being an incel would imply heterosexuality.... and we all know that post2022 /k/ are just nu-males, gays, furries and trannies
Don't go with with the expectation that they are realistic or proper wargames. At best they're the spiritual successor of WiC. Get WARNO since RD is dying and full of absolute cancer and minmax cheese
Red Dragon if you can only get one, it's much better value for money. Better multiplayer, more players, currently the only game with single player (though it's pretty meh, entertaining enough but the AI is dogshit and the scenarios aren't really worth playing more than once or twice), much better UI and the graphics aren't that much worse for a game made ten years ago.
WARNO, for all its rough edges, will probably end up being a better game for single player. SD2's Army General mode is miles above ALB and RD's scenarios, which are very simplistic and easy to game. Their latest dev diary says they're actually trying to improve their AI and give players a better, more satisfying singleplayer experience so you feel that you're going up against a human who wants to win the game instead of a robot that cares less about area control or combined arms and more about tallying up "points" from killing your shit. Whether they pull it off is another story, but honestly it's refreshing to see Eugen actually admit their games have problems and that they want to fix them instead of just being snobby Frenchmen and retreating between thirty layers of "well ACSHULLY" bullshit. You have to balance this out against the terrible UI, balance issues they're still struggling to fix, the cashgrab division system, but if they can pull it off it will eclipse Wargame.
One area I'm not enthusiastic about is their map design. Ever since SD they've forgotten how to make maps that offer more tactical opportunities than fighting over the centre of the map for 30 minutes. ALB's maps were honestly rather bland and similar, so maybe it's just a European thing. I prefer the maps in RD and Regiments, with the caveats that the latter has hideously slow movement speed and expects you to defend the entire map with a fraction of the units your enemy can call in.
Series peaked right there. RD killed the cold war spirit by adding all the sci-fi unicorns to push DLC sales, or circlejerk France because of course every modern military game must be biased towards the country it was developed in.
Plinking CVs and Buratinos with the Dutch tactical missile feels so good. Might be habit forming in an otherwise mediocre deck.
>french >biased
I don't know if it's just me but FRA&EC players have the lowest braincell counts only second to Israeli airborne decks. It's different each time, sometimes they leave a vital town ungarrisoned at round start and waste hundreds of points of infantry pushing it, other times they drive their mortars into an open field within tank range, and one time a guy just snuck his Mirage right on top of our air spawn corridor and got shot down by a pole Mig-21.
Airland Battle is the awkward middle child of the series and shouldn't be recommended at all now that the multiplayer's dead. EE has more replayability.
I got this one on sale years ago, but I never got into it because I'm too brainlet to figure out what units to build, plus I've never been good at RTS's to begin with (played Starcraft 1 back in the day but was always a glue eater at it)
>better map design >more maps >siege gamemode >actual game balance >no coalition decks >era bonus is genuinely useful >1 point transports >33 deck points >only 3 unit slots for downside >better ai >ai have decent default decks
Overall I feel like it's the better game, Red Dragon is fun and has some fun factions, but Airland Battle was always the better game
I honestly preferred European Escalation, both the solo and MP. Artillery was better (saturation that force you to leave an area or take damage over time), larger map that allowed for gap in your opponent defense and needed actual recon instead of chokepoint cluster fest they seem to prefer now. I even liked the unlocking system for deck that let you learn your unit instead of drowning under tons of them, and identify area where your deck is lacking to buy new unit their.
Regiments is autistic in weird ways. Each Regiment is actually researched and is composed of what units it actually had at the time and what reinforcements would have been allocated to it, but there's no formations. Each and every unit has it's own pedia entry with a cool little excerpt from in-universe interviews and books, but there's no air to air combat. There are SAM's though.
Casualties are calculated, KIA, WIA and Missing are displayed after each battle with calculations based on vehicle survivability and Infantry training, but there's no option to make a custom regiment. There will be Custom operations soon though, which will be nice.
They just added 3 British regiments and company sized formations. It's pretty fun to watch a company of T-55's suicide charge a platoon of Challengers.
All these Warno/Wargame/Steel Division games are far too arcadey for me.
I wish there was something with the depth/realism of Combat Mission but more modern and had team gameplay capability.
These don't look much different from the other titles I listed to be honest. Again, too arcadey. I want more focus on depth like it exists in Combat Mission.
How do I git gud at the Wargame series? I used to be good at World In Conflict but im terrible at the Wargame series, I never have enough units to cover more than one or two places, and stuff has a tendency to get blown up while im busy micromanaging elsewhere.
Beyond the basics like using recon, understanding LoS, managing your tanks well, cuing orders to move arty after firing, I think the real difference between champ and chump is deck building and making sure you have a balance of cheap units for map control and stronger units that you can use to push your advance. Decks like Israel are OP precisely because they're so cost effective with great infantry, the Zelda transport, cost effective tanks and underpriced air. If you're struggling, I would suggest building something like mechanised Commonwealth or Warsaw Pact.
Red Dragon,it has more playable base nations and it's cheaper. Eugen went to shit after Red Dragon, I stopped buying there games because of the DLC policy.
I feel like every time I try to get back into WARNO I find something else moronic about it >AI still can blatantly target anything it feels like regardless of the fact it has zero recon >>The devs insist this isn't the case so it'll never be fixed >Engineer tanks suddenly can't target light tanks/APCs because reasons >>Even though they skullfrick said targets if you manually fire it
OP if you haven't paid already then get Wargame Airland Battle if you don't already. It has more maps and game modes than Red Dragon and better AI. All the expansions are free and it's $4 right now. The main drawbacks are slightly less base game factions (China, Japan, Canada, + 2 Koreas), and slightly less units for existing factions. Though honestly most of the new units are bloat, and the new factions aren't that great either, except for China. Airland Battle also generally has better balance. As for multiplayer bases, all Eugen games have smaller player bases anyways, and a large part of RD's player base only plays against bots or just chats all day
ALB has an average of 30-40 players depending on the month, and a peak of about 100. While not much, we are talking about games with small player bases anyways. Another issue though is that all the data counts single player and the chat rooms. I know of at least 20 players in the English speaking chat room in RD that just chat all day. I don't really think that Wargame is a good series for multiplayer due to the low player counts
WG:RD is actually fun if you don't sweat over every decision, just accept losses when they happen. I just say "Eh, looks fine, let's smoke it and go for a push, what's the worst that could happen?"
You perform better regardless of actual strategy if you act quickly and energetically. Sure I may burn through stacks of poor conscripts and draftees like it's napalm (napalm planes and arty actually suck in my experience, and flame infantry are only marginally useful at best) but at the end of the day if I can say I went even then it's a good day. Also helo rushers are gay, everything else is a fair, counterable tactic (even bkan spam, as much as I dislike you scandi support players)
>napalm planes and arty actually suck
They are really good anon. Napalm arty is useful for taking out a town, infantry pretty much get fricked by it, great for when you know the enemy dug in with inf, just blast them with this a minute or 2 before you launch an assault. Napalm planes are great for stealth bombing the enemy spawn points, easily panic cheaper units like infantry or supply units. It's also great at creating a buffer when your opponent charges you, the moral debuff can make the difference too >flame infantry are only marginally useful
They are really fricking good anon, once had some flamers inside a town behind enemy lines, their tanks just kept getting in range and wiped out. Plus they are insane at hunting other infantry units inside of forests >helo rushers are gay, everything else is a fair
I agree that helorushgays deserve the rope, but you can counter them by leaving a few cheap units behind to defend your spawn zone. I usually leave 1-2 aa guns and 2-3 light tanks and any surplus transports with guns get placed back there too. Just don't use aa missiles because infantry can easily take them out
Yeah napalm can be nice but looking at how expensive it is in air/arty form compared to normal munitions that could do much more damage, that just makes flame infantry more viable because they are cheaper. I personally prefer using mortars to panic enemies, especially in towns, before engaging them.
Do people not mix mobile AA into their initial comp? I always bring at the least some MANPADs in a truck which will pay their cost many times if they encounter choppers.
In regards to the AA, yes, I swear by the 20pt MANPAD in every deck, the issue is with "roundstart 2000 points of only helos and planes" rushed that cannot be countered unless you had the precognition to buy 1000 points of AA yourself
I don't think they're over priced. I think that napalm planes are really cheap, 35pts for a bomber that has the potential to punch like a 70pt bomber is really good. The artillery is imo cheaper too, just because you only need one since it's rockets, versus needing 2-4 for the low end or one massive expensive for the high end regular artillery guns. Mortars are good too but be careful because sometimes people place forward scouts/ambushes that can take them out, or they'll call in the big guns
The way helo rushes work, you can literally spend 800pt out of the initial 1000pt on AA and still die to a helo rush. To counter a helo rush, you need lots of cheap units that shoot up (preferably with autocannons rather than missiles) AND you need a second CV. An example of a perfect anti helo rush unit is the 20pt NK Iglabus. Shit like Crotales and Tunguskas is a waste of points. If your deck isn't geared to counter helo rushes, and the rusher is somewhat competent, you just autolose by default.
I got to BrG doing helo rushes in three weeks (91% WR) before the wipe, and I'm a Maj at best when I play normally. I wasn't even trying to change my nickname. This strat is actually broken.
You don't really need that much AA to counter a helorush though. Just use a bunch of units that can counter infantry, since that's all they'll be dropping. You can usually pull back some of your units to deal with it, and once you beat the rush, you'll basically win the match if it's 1v1. 2v2 is even easier to counter, unless both players are rushing together. And 3v3, 4v4, 10v10 are all unlikely to have that kind of cooperation, and if they do then you were probably doomed from the start. Plus more players equates to more aa at base
Do people not mix mobile AA into their initial comp? I always bring at the least some MANPADs in a truck which will pay their cost many times if they encounter choppers.
The way helo rushes work, you can literally spend 800pt out of the initial 1000pt on AA and still die to a helo rush. To counter a helo rush, you need lots of cheap units that shoot up (preferably with autocannons rather than missiles) AND you need a second CV. An example of a perfect anti helo rush unit is the 20pt NK Iglabus. Shit like Crotales and Tunguskas is a waste of points. If your deck isn't geared to counter helo rushes, and the rusher is somewhat competent, you just autolose by default.
I got to BrG doing helo rushes in three weeks (91% WR) before the wipe, and I'm a Maj at best when I play normally. I wasn't even trying to change my nickname. This strat is actually broken.
I just use Gun trucks like the Norwegian 20mm or the Warpact ones and defend my vehicles with them, back them up with some manpad infantry and maybe 2-4 decent cheap Gun AA like a Sopel, maybe even helo killer missiles like the Germ OSA.
WG autist here.
WARNO isn't as deep and interesting as RD... at least not yet.
It depends on how far they're going to take this early access and how much they're willing to experiment.
Although things are generally going the right direction it feels like they're re-learning mistakes they made during ALB and RD and retreading old ground which shouldn't be necessary and is wasting a lot of time IMO. That makes it quite clear that it's not the same people who worked on those games...That means they copy some design decisions slavishly from RD without knowing which ideas were good and which ideas were bad. I think they honestly need to work on it another year at this pace, 6 months at minimum.
But the division system as is will never be as interesting as WG deck system.
How do I git gud at the Wargame series? I used to be good at World In Conflict but im terrible at the Wargame series, I never have enough units to cover more than one or two places, and stuff has a tendency to get blown up while im busy micromanaging elsewhere.
"Mid tier" units are generally the way to go as opposed to few expensive ones, but you need to know which units are actually cost effective. The basic M1 Abrams is basically your gold standard in terms of price/performance. If you see something heavier that you can't fight with an M1 Abrams, throw a plane or helicopter at it.
Cheap units are usually intentionally a bit cost-uneffective (reason cited by devs being performance concerns in 10v10) while expensive units theoretically being the most cost effective (nothing can beat a top tier tank on the ground) come in too little availability and are too juicy targets to actually cover a lot of ground.
It's interesting to see they're trying new things and reworking combat entirely this late in the game. For a long time I had lost all hope in Eugen being anything more than a bunch of scummy Frenchmen who only made teasers for DLC Division packs.
>That makes it quite clear that it's not the same people who worked on those games...
That's not necessarily bad, they were absolutely insufferable when it came to communicating with the fanbase and sometimes it impacted the game, especially that one arrogant c**t madmatt or whatever his handle was. Are they still throwing b***hfits when people point out inaccuracies or errors?
> But the division system as is will never be as interesting as WG deck system.
Couldn't agree more.
I've played a little SD but the division system seems like a very noob friendly game-mechanic in comparison to the deck system. With a narrower selection of units available off the bat it leaves little in the way for tactics responding to enemy units. One of the skills you develop playing with the deck system - where all your units available to you at the start of the match - is appropriately predicting and responding to varying enemy units given your situation. I remember loads of times wasting shit loads of points trying to kill a super-heavy when I could have just waited for them to push and side pen them.
I will try to give an unbiased and fair answer as someone for whom RTS is their favorite genre and someone who has a soft spot in their heart for Eugen titles. I have about 200 hours in Warno and about 700 hours in WG:RD.
Wargame Red Dragon is the more popular, but much older title.
It has a larger playerbase for now, but this will almost certainly dwindle over time. WGRD is receiving no more dev support and no more content.
The game is beloved for its much 'looser' deck building resulting in many fun and joyful meme possibilities.
However, this also means that the game has a megasweaty MP community and you will certainly be raped by people using obscure memeunits and obscure mechanics.
As a result of being older and the 3rd in a series, it has loads of content (# of countries, units, etc.).
However, because it is older it also has some very dated mechanics and lacks many Quality of Life improvements they have made since. The net of this is that to be good at WGRD you need high game knowledge and high mechanics skill (e.g. knowing how Line of Sight works and how to micro loading / unloading units, microing tank units, etc.)
and although I recommended Warno I basically agree with everything you said. What gives me hope is that Eugen seems very willing to try new things or re-tool mechanics. That plus the QOL changes mostly inspired from the Steel Division series gives me hope it will ultimately be the better game once the content is there and once they've made ~6-12 months more of feature and mechanics improvements. The latest Warno dev diaries preview some pretty major and bold changes IMO, and I think the Army General mode may be really, really cool.
> But the division system as is will never be as interesting as WG deck system.
Couldn't agree more.
I've played a little SD but the division system seems like a very noob friendly game-mechanic in comparison to the deck system. With a narrower selection of units available off the bat it leaves little in the way for tactics responding to enemy units. One of the skills you develop playing with the deck system - where all your units available to you at the start of the match - is appropriately predicting and responding to varying enemy units given your situation. I remember loads of times wasting shit loads of points trying to kill a super-heavy when I could have just waited for them to push and side pen them.
This is 100% true, the division system inherently makes peoples' decks more 'homogenous' in terms of the mix and types of units they bring, but as Warno has continued it has gotten much better - they've been adding new units to older divisions and it is finally getting to a place where there are both some interesting choices in deck building and interesting differences in how the 'types' of divisions play, especially with the forward deploy mechanic (Armored / Mechanized / Airborne).
Overall, I actually honestly think the Division system may be both less interesting (and meme-y) for obvious reasons, but overall better for the quality of the MP game, so long as they ensure meaningful differneces both between and within divisions.
How do I git gud at the Wargame series? I used to be good at World In Conflict but im terrible at the Wargame series, I never have enough units to cover more than one or two places, and stuff has a tendency to get blown up while im busy micromanaging elsewhere.
Seconding this
https://honhonhonhon.wordpress.com/how-to-get-started-with-wargame/
and lots of practice
, but from my experience the two absolutely most important mechanics you need to get your head around are Line of Sight and Cover (Forests, buildings). This game really boils down to microing units in and out of forests, getting line of sight, taking the shot, and then breaking their line of sight. It's the most important unique 'fundamental' to the Eugen RTS games.
>Overall, I actually honestly think the Division system may be both less interesting (and meme-y) for obvious reasons, but overall better for the quality of the MP game, so long as they ensure meaningful differences both between and within divisions.
All well in good in theory, but when you actually play multiplayer there is no meaningful distinction between divisions and deckbuilding in practice. The vast majority of people in WGRD play Unspec or well-known meta decks. In SD2, you can join a lobby and find the exact same thing, the only difference is that they're playing the meta divisions rather than Eurocorp Moto or USSR unspec. I have to admit that WARNO is rather decently balanced at the moment, but I think it's inevitable that it will end up in the same place, with multiplayer ruled by a few powerful meta divisions that you are essentially forced to play if you want to have a chance at winning, because the limitations build into the division system are impossible to overcome. 7th Panzer is in this spot right now, it's a dud pick and the playerbase is competitive enough that nobody wants to shoot themselves in the foot by picking it. There isn't a single nation in RD that is unplayable if you build the deck right, but SD2 has dozens of fluff Divisions nobody actually plays.
Divisions are in my opinion utterly indefensible instead of changing the way you play multiplayer or adding more variety to the game, they just take away players' freedom to make the deck that they want to play. It's just an excuse to churn out DLC.
Balancing diverse nations/coalitions/divisions is a very difficult task. Considering that, WRD is surprisingly well balanced. The number of meta decks is rather large, off the top of my head all of these work very well in high-level 1v1:
- blue mech
- red mech
- usa unspec
- entente unspec and mech
- ussr unspec
- finpol unspec (still very strong even after the nerf, used to be actual s-tier)
- norad unspec
- EB unspec and mech (bmp-1 spam with the mech spec is actually insane)
- scandi unspec
Between all that I think blue mech, usa unspec, entente mech and ussr are the strongest, but because the overall skill level of active 1v1 players is not THAT high compared to popular RTS games like Starcraft, you can get away with playing lower tier decks.
You also see a lot of variety in how various players build these decks. I don't own WARNO, but in SD2 variety between divisions is miniscule, at least if you want to be competitive.
Moto decks in 1v1 are generally weak in my opinion, it's very risky to play them. It's much better to build an unspec deck that has a strong moto opener and then play off of it. >Eurocorp Moto
Eurocorps is actually not that strong in the current meta, neither unspec nor moto. Not even because of the nerfs, it's just way too figured out.
Also because WRD is actually alive you don't just have people playing 1v1s. Tacticals are fun as frick and regular 10v10 though usually a crap shoot can give you a great game once every 4 matches.
1 year ago
Anonymous
what do you mean by tacticals? I thought that was 1v1?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Tactical is a 10v10 game on a 1v1 or 2v2 map with something between 1000-2000 points per team
The point is that you have about ~200 points per player so they have to specialize. So you end up with the arty guy, the asf guy, the tank guy and so on and so forth.
>All well in good in theory, but when you actually play multiplayer there is no meaningful distinction between divisions and deckbuilding in practice. The vast majority of people in WGRD play Unspec or well-known meta decks. In SD2, you can join a lobby and find the exact same thing, the only difference is that they're playing the meta divisions rather than Eurocorp Moto or USSR unspec.
I think this is very true although when it comes to: >with multiplayer ruled by a few powerful meta divisions that you are essentially forced to play if you want to have a chance at winning >There isn't a single nation in RD that is unplayable if you build the deck right,
I think some of what makes WRD really great is that there aren't just a few powerful meta divisions, there are quite a number of them and the coalitions in game have at least some viability or feel close enough to viable that you can for hours on end think up ways to make it work and it's interesting to play even if you lose. Some fun 'near-viable' but not necessarily meta decks:
'85 BLUFOR marines, US marines, RD mechanized, Scandi-mech, etc. The only standout blatantly OP faction is Yugoslavia.
The division system just needs that extra spice which gives you customizability, and while it doesn't need to be a copy of the RD deck system, there's been plenty of good suggestions on the discord. "Attachments" would perfectly fit the theme of divisions.
Air units are usually "attached" to divisions ad-hoc rather than being permanent parts of them. It'd be interesting if you had options of taking a limited number of ad-hoc attachments as a bonus to your division to expand your options. Pic related, lets say by attaching the 4450th tactical group you'd take small activation point penalty, but get F117 and A-7 Corsair options in your deck.
>7th Panzer is in this spot right now
Anon, just embrace UAZ SPG9 as your lord and savior.
>7th Panzer is in this spot right now
Actually 7 Panzer is considered quite strong because (1) of all the strong price-to-performance t-72's, (2) mot-schutzen spam, and (3) UAZ SPG9 spam [...]
[...]
The TL;DR of my opinion is that the Wargame deck building system is more fun and more cool but ultimately IRL it boils down to 10-20 meta/viable decks with a lot of deck copying, and unfortunately as well a lot of use of one-off meme units and cheese.
The division system is less fun because its more restrictive but at least as of now all the divisions are relatively balanced between each other, with meaningful differences between them, and there are some (but IMO not enough) cool trade-off decisions within the divisions as well.
I think long-term as long as their division design stays good and they keep adding to it, what will be better than the deck system (or at least as good, in a different way) is that the divisions will produce well-balanced decks that also have unique strengths / weaknesses inherent to the division in a balanced but unique way. I also think it's just more straightforward for new players tbh.
[...] >The division system just needs that extra spice which gives you customizability, and while it doesn't need to be a copy of the RD deck system, there's been plenty of good suggestions on the discord. "Attachments" would perfectly fit the theme of divisions.
I really like this idea, it would be the best of both worlds. not sure exactly how it would work - maybe 3 max 'attachment' slots and filling any one would cost a high point value (3 points?), which is expensive but potentially very potent. Say 3rd armored getting a card of SAS, to add a lot of 'spice' to the division and add a limited but potent capability or two.
If there is one thing I dont like about the division system right now its how 'same-y' many of the USSR divisions feel because, just like IRL, its T-XX and BMP-spam as far as the eye can see
Nobody's talking about it, but the Division system means you are paying for the slow implantation of content that was either in the game at launch in RD or you're now allowed to do whatever you want with. Eugen's DLC model is absolute cancer, you pay more for less content and less choice.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Red Dragon has so much content because it was third in a series of 3 games worth of units you gay
1 year ago
Anonymous
Red Dragon has so much content because it was third in a series of 3 games worth of units you gay
Maybe SD was different. ALB at launch had plenty of units but factions weren't fleshed out. That got fleshed out over time with free updates. Then when RD came out those factions weren't exactly fleshed out but even the legacy factions got free updates due to popular demand and in the end RD just ended up as a massive game. It's kind of crazy to me how Eugen abandoned such a 'behemoth'.
Basically, RD and ALB didn't have everything at launch, but they added a lot for free.
I do worry if the division system is a way of just selling what would be "decks" in RD though. Because lets say you add another US armored division, what's it going to be? Oh it's gonna have an abrams it's gonna have riflemen it's gonna have most of what already exists and maybe they'll throw in 1-2 new units or add something from Germany that you don't get in the other division.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Lol they abandoned Red Dragon for the steaming pile of shit that is Act of Aggression and then immediately came scurrying back to make WGRD dlc
>7th Panzer is in this spot right now
Actually 7 Panzer is considered quite strong because (1) of all the strong price-to-performance t-72's, (2) mot-schutzen spam, and (3) UAZ SPG9 spam
>All well in good in theory, but when you actually play multiplayer there is no meaningful distinction between divisions and deckbuilding in practice. The vast majority of people in WGRD play Unspec or well-known meta decks. In SD2, you can join a lobby and find the exact same thing, the only difference is that they're playing the meta divisions rather than Eurocorp Moto or USSR unspec.
I think this is very true although when it comes to: >with multiplayer ruled by a few powerful meta divisions that you are essentially forced to play if you want to have a chance at winning >There isn't a single nation in RD that is unplayable if you build the deck right,
I think some of what makes WRD really great is that there aren't just a few powerful meta divisions, there are quite a number of them and the coalitions in game have at least some viability or feel close enough to viable that you can for hours on end think up ways to make it work and it's interesting to play even if you lose. Some fun 'near-viable' but not necessarily meta decks:
'85 BLUFOR marines, US marines, RD mechanized, Scandi-mech, etc. The only standout blatantly OP faction is Yugoslavia.
The division system just needs that extra spice which gives you customizability, and while it doesn't need to be a copy of the RD deck system, there's been plenty of good suggestions on the discord. "Attachments" would perfectly fit the theme of divisions.
Air units are usually "attached" to divisions ad-hoc rather than being permanent parts of them. It'd be interesting if you had options of taking a limited number of ad-hoc attachments as a bonus to your division to expand your options. Pic related, lets say by attaching the 4450th tactical group you'd take small activation point penalty, but get F117 and A-7 Corsair options in your deck.
>7th Panzer is in this spot right now
Anon, just embrace UAZ SPG9 as your lord and savior.
Not OP, but I am interested in what you like about the division system. Having dicked around with RD occasionally, half the fun for me is the wide world of potential units you can pick, even if some, or most, of them aren't effective.
The TL;DR of my opinion is that the Wargame deck building system is more fun and more cool but ultimately IRL it boils down to 10-20 meta/viable decks with a lot of deck copying, and unfortunately as well a lot of use of one-off meme units and cheese.
The division system is less fun because its more restrictive but at least as of now all the divisions are relatively balanced between each other, with meaningful differences between them, and there are some (but IMO not enough) cool trade-off decisions within the divisions as well.
I think long-term as long as their division design stays good and they keep adding to it, what will be better than the deck system (or at least as good, in a different way) is that the divisions will produce well-balanced decks that also have unique strengths / weaknesses inherent to the division in a balanced but unique way. I also think it's just more straightforward for new players tbh.
>All well in good in theory, but when you actually play multiplayer there is no meaningful distinction between divisions and deckbuilding in practice. The vast majority of people in WGRD play Unspec or well-known meta decks. In SD2, you can join a lobby and find the exact same thing, the only difference is that they're playing the meta divisions rather than Eurocorp Moto or USSR unspec.
I think this is very true although when it comes to: >with multiplayer ruled by a few powerful meta divisions that you are essentially forced to play if you want to have a chance at winning >There isn't a single nation in RD that is unplayable if you build the deck right,
I think some of what makes WRD really great is that there aren't just a few powerful meta divisions, there are quite a number of them and the coalitions in game have at least some viability or feel close enough to viable that you can for hours on end think up ways to make it work and it's interesting to play even if you lose. Some fun 'near-viable' but not necessarily meta decks:
'85 BLUFOR marines, US marines, RD mechanized, Scandi-mech, etc. The only standout blatantly OP faction is Yugoslavia.
The division system just needs that extra spice which gives you customizability, and while it doesn't need to be a copy of the RD deck system, there's been plenty of good suggestions on the discord. "Attachments" would perfectly fit the theme of divisions.
Air units are usually "attached" to divisions ad-hoc rather than being permanent parts of them. It'd be interesting if you had options of taking a limited number of ad-hoc attachments as a bonus to your division to expand your options. Pic related, lets say by attaching the 4450th tactical group you'd take small activation point penalty, but get F117 and A-7 Corsair options in your deck.
>7th Panzer is in this spot right now
Anon, just embrace UAZ SPG9 as your lord and savior.
>The division system just needs that extra spice which gives you customizability, and while it doesn't need to be a copy of the RD deck system, there's been plenty of good suggestions on the discord. "Attachments" would perfectly fit the theme of divisions.
I really like this idea, it would be the best of both worlds. not sure exactly how it would work - maybe 3 max 'attachment' slots and filling any one would cost a high point value (3 points?), which is expensive but potentially very potent. Say 3rd armored getting a card of SAS, to add a lot of 'spice' to the division and add a limited but potent capability or two.
If there is one thing I dont like about the division system right now its how 'same-y' many of the USSR divisions feel because, just like IRL, its T-XX and BMP-spam as far as the eye can see
>I really like this idea, it would be the best of both worlds. not sure exactly how it would work - maybe 3 max 'attachment' slots and filling any one would cost a high point value (3 points?), which is expensive but potentially very potent. Say 3rd armored getting a card of SAS, to add a lot of 'spice' to the division and add a limited but potent capability or two.
Yes exactly. The possibilities open up alot with this sort of system. Say you could attach an elite heavy tank regiment giving you just a little bit of armored capability in an otherwise infantry focused deck, or maybe you'd want some elite artillery, or a couple of F-14 Tomcats for air cover in a usually air weak division.
I think the prevalence of it should depend on the division. More complete divisions should probably only be able to take 1 attachment while less complete or weaker divisions could take 2-3.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>W RD is too meta >Let's make it soo people can add Meta units to the division system willy nilly
You Black folk have brain damage
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Let's make it soo people can add Meta units to the division system willy nilly
Yes. Meme units are fun and so is RD.
1 year ago
Anonymous
There's a balance to be had. Too many overpowered units is bad, but everybody mashing together cookie-cutter decks is also bad.
>Try this game series after reading reviews >Be utter and complete shit at them >Still have lots of fun
Whoa, so this is what playing good games feels like.
FWIW I tried to get into WG:RD several times and it never "clicked"
Then I played a bit of Regiments which seemed easier to grasp
Then went back to try RD a couple weeks ago and ended up playing for like 10 hours straight cause it finally "clicked"
That might be my advice, go play Regiments for a bit because that feels like Wargame-lite a bit
Are there ways to make RD's singleplayer less shit? I just wanna dick around on occasion with all kinds of funky Cold War units, but the dogshit AI refuse to let me have any fun.
I've put 100 hours into RD singleplayer. I want to join multiplayer but I'm nervous from all the horror stories, and there aren't many games open anyway.
If you are worried about sweatlords, play those low point 10vs10 meme games
Last time I tried multiplayer, it was all extremely-low-point 10v10 conquest matches on 1v1 maps.
It's the designated casual mode of the series basically, nobody gives a frick how you do, you just send a few shiny tanks in the general direction of the enemy and collect those juicy point popups.
And if any mentally ill troony tries to give you shit, you laugh at xir for acting like 10vs10 is a serious game mode.
I joined a couple, everybody else teamswitched to blue, 1/3rd of my team didn't build any units and it was just 20 minutes of feeling totally impotent as we got slowly rolled back.
WARNO is for b***h homosexuals who love supporting Nu-Eugen which sucks Black person dick and donates to rapefugee campaigns. The company that made Red Dragon does not exist anymore, almost all the people who made red dragon no longer work there.
I will try to give an unbiased and fair answer as someone for whom RTS is their favorite genre and someone who has a soft spot in their heart for Eugen titles. I have about 200 hours in Warno and about 700 hours in WG:RD.
Wargame Red Dragon is the more popular, but much older title.
It has a larger playerbase for now, but this will almost certainly dwindle over time. WGRD is receiving no more dev support and no more content.
The game is beloved for its much 'looser' deck building resulting in many fun and joyful meme possibilities.
However, this also means that the game has a megasweaty MP community and you will certainly be raped by people using obscure memeunits and obscure mechanics.
As a result of being older and the 3rd in a series, it has loads of content (# of countries, units, etc.).
However, because it is older it also has some very dated mechanics and lacks many Quality of Life improvements they have made since. The net of this is that to be good at WGRD you need high game knowledge and high mechanics skill (e.g. knowing how Line of Sight works and how to micro loading / unloading units, microing tank units, etc.)
Warno is the spiritual successor to WGRD currently in Early Access.
Big picture design-wise, it is 80% the same game, with a 'refresh' mentality. This means rebuilding many of the units and nations from the ground-up, better graphics, and lots of mechanical improvements that are IMO irreplaceable now (esp. LoS tool and order queueing at match start.)
The 20% that is different is: (1) Deck building is restricted to 'divisions' now, which means your choices in deck building are much more limited, but also more 'balanced' for MP' and easier for new players to get into (2) The 'scale' and 'speed' of the maps and matches has been slightly reduced and increased, respectively. The net of this is Warno is a bit 'faster' / 'arcade-y' / 'action-packed' than WGRD (Units travel and get into combat faster on smaller maps).
Warno has much improved AI and if Eugen is honest in their Dev Diaries, the Single Player experience will be much more robust than in WGRD via the Army General mode, which is a game mode that plays kinda like Total War with a strategic layer leading into tactical battles
Warno is also being actively developed and is going to be the future of the franchise, for better or worse.
Warno is the spiritual successor to WGRD currently in Early Access.
Big picture design-wise, it is 80% the same game, with a 'refresh' mentality. This means rebuilding many of the units and nations from the ground-up, better graphics, and lots of mechanical improvements that are IMO irreplaceable now (esp. LoS tool and order queueing at match start.)
The 20% that is different is: (1) Deck building is restricted to 'divisions' now, which means your choices in deck building are much more limited, but also more 'balanced' for MP' and easier for new players to get into (2) The 'scale' and 'speed' of the maps and matches has been slightly reduced and increased, respectively. The net of this is Warno is a bit 'faster' / 'arcade-y' / 'action-packed' than WGRD (Units travel and get into combat faster on smaller maps).
Warno has much improved AI and if Eugen is honest in their Dev Diaries, the Single Player experience will be much more robust than in WGRD via the Army General mode, which is a game mode that plays kinda like Total War with a strategic layer leading into tactical battles
Warno is also being actively developed and is going to be the future of the franchise, for better or worse.
So what's my take. My take is get Warno but honestly it comes with some risk. WGRD is buying into a dead-end game. Its not getting any more support and the community will dwindle over time. Moreover most of the people still playing are diehards which will make it hard for new players.
Warno has NOT been a smash success and has small player numbers right now. It can be hard to find an MP game at certain times of day. But I honestly like the overall direction they are going with Warno. The division system isn't as bad as people are saying for lots of reasons which I can elaborate on if you want, but suffice to say it works, the divisions are getting larger with each patch, and I actually like the Airborne / Mechanized / Tank division trichotomy they have built.
The game has improved a lot in Early Access and Eugen seems actually willing to make major improvements to the core mechanics and are constantly rebalancing and making mechanics improvements. So I would say "so far so good" on my Early Access purchase.
So I say buy Warno and for the love of god pray that it builds momentum, gets a healthy influx of new players on full release, and continues this type of game into the 2020's.
If Warno fails my honest impression is Eugen is fricked and the studio will close. My understanding is that the Steel Division franchise was a flop and after the Eugen labor dispute the company hemmoraged staff and they are holding on for dear life.
Not OP, but I am interested in what you like about the division system. Having dicked around with RD occasionally, half the fun for me is the wide world of potential units you can pick, even if some, or most, of them aren't effective.
My friends and I play SD2 and got into WGRD when it was on sale in late 2020.
I think that the sweaty and competitive mp players are a very vocal minority. A lot of people play singleplayer or co-op vs AI in these games, but dont go on 4ch or plebbit to talk about it because they're casual.
By focusing more on singleplayer in WARNO at the cost of multiplayer, eugenic is hopefully going to scoop up more customers.
90% of my time in SD2 is singleplayer and then watching replays. I really hope they flesh out the WARNO SP experience because im tired of the vocal minority of competitive players taking up the devs attention with focus on meta and balance vs improving AI, more cool singleplayer modes and content, general QOL like a UI refresh etc.
Damn, the video made me wish those French homosexuals would make their moddable. Or at least give us the damn map editor. Instead, they keep shitting out those useless division DLCs.
Map editor was promised, but if Eugentists aren't morons they will improve their mod tools, because without meme mods their game will never be popular. You can't get decent online by posting copypaste info from wikipedia in your patchnotes.
>All that shitty missile tanks that will be slaughtered by some conscripted Pole or East G*man with RPG-7...
Tank crew's must have done something terrible to you, anon
they're absolute shit in game too, I suppose they could be decent on the defensive if you have proper depth to let them actually use their shitty missiles and give them the full week they need to aim their main gun.
The CEV is quickly becoming one of my favorite pattons though, it can be a really nasty surprise to enemy infantry is placed in a town along with riflemen
Those aren't M60s, those are Starships. The M60A2 was disowned and disinherited, and the family would prefer you respect their decision and thus not refer to it as part of them.
Thank you.
The replay was rather peculiar; I'd just dicked around with air units which helped my AI compatriot handily win the thing. Yet when I watched the replay, most of my units never spawned, and the enemy AI won. Guess the computer was mad at getting beaten.
>functionality
Honestly, kinda deplorable even so. I understand it isn't the same engine, and it's essentially a reboot of the Wargame franchise, but I still think you should at least include the basic mechanics from the previous iterations at launch.
shit rocks, best update ive seen in a while
[...]
functionality
The new WARNO update is good as hell, plus 1000+ concurrent players, frick yeah, the game hasn't been this populated since like day one. I hope its actual new players and not just returning people too.
I'm actually surprised how good it is. Multiple new and reworked maps and map configs, the new infantry trait system actually works as intended and is cool as hell (makes special forces and assault squads and reservists etc. actually play and feel different from one another, actually a good reason to take SF now), suppression changes actually work without being busted as frick like steel division 1 was, 3rd armored changes were good (AT-4 fire teams in bradleys are good as hell, 2 pretty good new divisions although the NATO berlin command one is kind of a meme, I actually like the CV changes, and the UI improvements are a straight upgrade. A (kinda funny with bad voice acting) tutorial is there now too.
The only two things bad or straight busted is the nighthawk implementation. planes dont have a stealth stat (yet?) so it just functions as a suicide bomber that will 100% get targeted and die. I think i remember a dev saying on the steam forums they are gonna add the stealth stat so the plane cost is low for now, but that's lame.
The other thing that's weird is the AA changes. They made SPAAG's generally do less damage but more suppression (and planes will auto-evac if suppressed or below like 2 health now), which sounds good in theory but it means that A-10's and SU-25's are way too resilient versus AA guns right now.
Otherwise though this is a really good update. If they put out one or two more updates of this quality, with the Army General mode, some rebalancing, new units, and good polish, I think the game is release ready. Then I am pumped to get the NORTHAG and SOUTHAG expansions lol, I want my Yugo and Scando countries.
It's a mix of both kinda. Most / all infantry have one of like 12 traits.
The main / most common ones are Special Forces, Shock, and Reservist which basically map onto Elite / Shock / Militia respectively from WGRD. Elite units move faster, don't get suppressed / stunned as easily, and have a higher RoF on top of their standard stats. Shock units take reduced suppression when fighting in close range like in buildings or forests. Reservists take more suppression in general and are more likely to be stunned or routed. (Thankfully unlike SD1 its not like every unit routs all the time lol, they actually mostly do just fight and die).
But then they added some more ones that are more specialized or flavored. Like Military Police grant a suppression reduction for units fighting near them. "IFV Infantry" (like the US Fire Teams or the BMP Motostrelki) take less suppression when near their IFV. "Resolute" units (AKA the East Germans) are like ideologically indoctrinated I guess and so take a little less suppression across the board. Some NATO recon units have "GSR" (Ground Surveillance Radar) so they get additional optics level when not moving. Obviously also there's the Airborne and Recon units which can deploy farther ahead in the map at match start.
Mostly the gameplay change is that it makes infantry combat actually about quality and mix and not just quantity. Before who'd win any infantry fight was bringing the mostest largest squads. Now having a mix of cheap reservists and shock troops actually works well.
Also now CV units upvet the guys near them so there's a theoretical reason to bring CV infantry and tanks rather than just the cheap jeeps.
I got my money's worth from it so far and it seems to be heading in the right direction so I would say yes. Like I said above I think this game is like two more patches like this away from being great. It just needs like 4 more maps, one more big pass for balance of the existing divisions, one more big pass for polish, UI, and optimization (particularly I think the unit sounds effects and some of the gun effects are weak right now, but the soundtrack slaps), at least the first big batch of single player campaigns, and a nice collection of new units (I think I'd prefer rounding out the existing divisions than adding new ones right this second but would be glad to have both), and the game will be in a really good spot IMO and ready for "1.0" release.
IMO it's a really encouraging sign that Eugene is actually willing to change unit balance around and make major mechanical changes rather than just sort of sleepwalking through content additions of maps and new divisions.
The only caveat is that even though I really like the game right now there is always the possibility that because of their zero marketing budget and Wargame's infamously fickle fan community this game could also just dwindle and die a slow obscure death unfortunately. But as a game right now it's pretty good and I genuinely think on it's way to becoming a worthy successor to Wargame.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>polish
i hope they never add the polish
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's all but guarantied. Diversity sells better than the same nations over and over. And PACT doesn't have that much to pick from compared to NATO.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>polish
i hope they never add the polish
I would rather they add like 1-3 divisions from new interesting countries at a time rather than keep adding more and more USSR and USA divisions tbh, more completely new units and keeps things interesting
Better than "we are adding this crazy new obscure USSR division. Guess what? It uses - wait for it - BMP's and T-72's."
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's all but guarantied. Diversity sells better than the same nations over and over. And PACT doesn't have that much to pick from compared to NATO.
Madmatt is a poleaboo so they will get added. Except they'll get only useless outdated units because he has a hard on for that junk
1 year ago
Anonymous
Why not?
1 year ago
Anonymous
I hope they add the Poles just so you can kill them
Only thing I dislike is the role of veterancy and the fact that zones don't need CVs anymore.
I LIKE that they want CVs to be used offensively and to support troops. Thats fine.
I DISLIKE that the comeback mechanic related to CVs is effectively removed from the game. Also backline harrassment gameplay was fun in my eyes and now that's toned down significantly.
Now the game feels like it's really just a single protracted clash where one side accumulates advantage over time and wins.
>comeback mechanic
Unfortunately people, not even eugen themselves, seem to really understand the function of CVs having to stay in the zone. >How it works now:
Now, if we start with 200 pts, I buy a tank and a CV, you buy a tank and a CV. The CV caps all the zones and we meet in the middle zone for a fight. If you destroy my tank my CV retreats and you gain victory points. I spend the next 100 pts on a tank, you spend the next 100 pts on a tank. You have 2 tanks, I have 1. Basically, you won the first engagement, this provides significant advantage for the next engagement. And again after that and again after that. The snowball effect is quite large.
>How it used to work.
If we both buy 1 CV and 1 Tank, the CV stays in a backzone. If I lose my tank. Neither of us gain victory points. BUT, the next 100 points of income you can spend on a new CV to capture a zone and gain victory points while I MUST spend those 100 points to replace the tank. The state of the game is now, you 2 CVs and 1 tank and me 1 tank 1 CV. This gives the loser a fighting chance. I might hunt for the second CV to claw back some advantage so you're incentivized to spend some points to defend that second CV. This means your forces are also spreading a bit thin. Essentially winning the first engagement isn't a super duper snowballing advantage. You have to consistently outplay.
And in reverse, if I start to come back, I'll also have to spend my income on CVs to actually get victory points.
I totally get what you're saying - and although I like the change overall I agree that we did lose a 'comeback mechanic' of CV sniping to buy time in a losing match - but the problem with your simplified example is that its too simplified; in a real game with a 1500 points budget there's a 'law of large numbers' effect where even if you get memed and lose a couple units, unless you went absolutely bunga and lost not one but like 6 or 7 units, you should have enough units to use to fight your way back to even if you play right.
The real way that this new mechanic plays out is like this: >People buy 1 cv and queue-move it between 2-3 zones at the beginning to get all the safe caps and then contest the mid point >Then you have contested mid zone where the 2 players meet and fight >If you are losing mid then they are at +1 zone over you until they attack your safer zones
The effective change really is less money spent on CV's and more on units, and less emphasis on the choice of building up early point leads by buying lots of CV's vs. allocating full budget to winning mid
IMO the far more interesting thing they should look at is how can we get more mobile CV's to back-cap enemy zones which don't have any units in it (incl. no CV). I haven't played with it yet but there may be more use for command helicopters here or more mobile inf CV
>Research actual Battalion level tactics for the Soviets. >Hop into an MP match, thinking I'm gonna run these Black folk into the ground >Combat recon patrol goes out, finds the main American push >A couple BMP's die, but that's fine, I gained knowledge on where he's coming from and what he has. >Realize I don't have enough units or points to properly form the Advanced body of troops needed to attack. >Not to mention nowhere near the reserves needed for the third echelon >American player is thunder running an Abrams/Bradley combo right down my throat.
Perhaps I miscalculated...
I always cringe when people try to apply real world military tactics/strategy in games, like ARMA neckbeard larpers bragging about having read Sun Tzu.
I sometimes wonder about the opposite. Would crazy tactics pulled off in video games sometimes really work in real life?
One example is heli-rushing. Generally, modern warfare has revealed helicopters to be kind of useless individually because of stingers and the like.... but if you have 10 helicopters, sure someone might get hit by that stinger, but there's 9 helicopters who might see where missile came from and light up that position.
Another example which probably works but will probably never be acceptable is sending human waves of low quality troops to draw fire from enemy / drain supply and thus make them reveal themselves and be less of a threat for following higher-quality tanks and forces.
Or deliberately sending planes in to soak enemy AA with the knowledge that a BUK only has 3 missiles ready so even if 3 planes die that's just acceptable if you can bring more. Things like that probably shock theorists who have their neat and tidy expectations subverted by supreme gamer logic and tactics™.
Seeing as you described 3 actua tactics that are widely used IRL (aside from #2 usually being done with highly mobile forces that can withdraw fast, although auxiliary infantry works too, and #3 being done with cruise missiles and drones), I think that you are deliberately baiting.
"Helo rush" is literally how airborne infantry actually works most of the time.
>Another example which probably works but will probably never be acceptable is sending human waves of low quality troops to draw fire from enemy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War >Or deliberately sending planes in to soak enemy AA with the knowledge that a BUK only has 3 missiles ready so even if 3 planes die that's just acceptable if you can bring more.
The Americans did that in Nam. Had special mission objectives for parts of an Air Raid to go play chicken with fricking SAMs.
I think the main thing games can't simulate very well that's very important IRL is morale and friction, all the games both vidya and tabletop that tries to implement it have been unimpressive, frustrating (although I guess that's the point) and/or janky.
Something basically no game does is asking the question if your barely trained reservist human shield or sea of T-34s actually wants to die gloriously, and maybe that's a good thing
I had one of my best mp games ever last night and it was exactly this. 3rd armored, m1a1 abrams and bradley spam. i was able to just pick him apart with TOWs and the m1a1s tanking.
I also got a few very lucky gun runs with the A-10 and it shredded like 5 t-80's. when i watched the replay i couldn't believe it. it was killing units i didn't even realize lol
3rd Armored is so fricking good after this patch, probably the best NATO Division. It's funny how really it was just a mild buff to the Fire Teams and helis that made this whole division really come together.
>6-man but 2-support weapon + AT-4 fire teams in Bradleys locking down towns and blasting enemy tanks with TOW's and IFV's with the Basedmaster >M1A1 beast-mode accuracy wrecking T-80's >Apache rockets decimating entire infantry pushes >A-10 Rapehog absolutely brapping helicopters, tanks, infantry, everything >F-15 merking enemy air from across the map >Chappy + PIVADS Mommy and Daddy AA net everywhere brapping and blasting down everything in the air >ACAV + Scouts and sending ACAV into forests for cheeky snipes plus loads of visibility from the Scouts
So much fun, by far my favorite division right now. Before this patch I was a 5th Blindee Francegay but now I feel way more at home with good American metal. PACTgays just can't compete
Are helis still insanely tanky in Warno? Is helirush as good in Warno as it is in wargame? Asking as someone who has a personal helirusher blacklist for WGRD
Heli rush is significantly less viable in Warno than in WGRD. in general helicopters are more 'specialized' units with less availability so they aren't nearly as spammable.
There was actually a hot week after the latest big patch where armored Helicopters were OP as hell due to the changes they made to AA and the reduction of the +Accuracy bonus on AA from increased Veterancy, and people were doing Apache spam, but then it got hotfixed like yesterday
There are very few games where people insta-kill your entire opener with helicopters or a cheeky air or artillery strike on a main road
The only exception to this is A-10's and SU-25's are extremely powerful and tanky so people very often pair one up with a recon helicopter and blast towards you with that at match start. it's not game ending but it its enough of a risk to always recommend an ASF because the CAS plane will tend to reach your forces before your shilkas, chapparals, etc. reach the frontline.
I have had games where I run that and they brought no opening AA or planes. getting 4-5 transport kills on their special forces units is enough to really frick up someone's game lol
I feel like the multiple starting positions between both recon and para forward deployment just ruin the economy of it. In Red Dragon even if they evade the barrage they have to wait it out or take a less optimal path while in Warno everyone may already be deployed past it.
Better to spend your points on your own forward deployments or on CAS that can be more flexible.
I just wish 8th Inf got at least some cards of the Bradley IFV, that's the real weak spot of that division, lack of good IFV's.
I was playing them the other day and canot describe how badly I wanted a nice autocannon shooting, TOW-equipped armored vehicle to support my mech riflerinos
I actually prefer their tank options to 3rd armored though, the M1 Abrams is like the perfect price / performance for spam, and you have the option of the M1A1 as well for heavy tank standoffs
This is the way now
New patch meta IMO is France and East Germany
The game right now is really favoring 'masses of good price-to-performance tanks' AKA the French AMX-30's and the East German T-72's
That plus the French Grenadiers and Mot-Schutzen are great spammable infantry
I personally think 7th Panzer may be the best div in the game because in addition to T-72 spam they also have the BMP-1P which I think is better than the French VAB's
The only weakness really in the French decks are that you need to complement your forces with lots of Milan 2's in case they bring heavy tanks, and their Helicopters are shit
But basically it's really hard to stop a superior number of Infantry + IFV's + tanks + ATGM spam, even with individually superior units
That being said, the USSR 39th and 79th are still really good, as are the US 3rd Armored especially and to a lesser extent 8th Infantry, but for me, it's 100-150 point tank spam
Funnily enough 3rd Armored plays really interesting where you rely so heavily on Bradley spam and A-10's, their megahuug Abrams are actually a little secondary just because they are so expensive
8th Infantry I've had shockingly good success playing in really counter-intuitive way, which is basically spamming the cheaper fire teams in the M113 Dragons with the M60 tanks (Also with A-10 spam lol). Their signature unit of Mech Rifles is just too expensive
>favorite NATO division
3rd Armored
2nd Place: 5th Blindee >favorite PACT division
39th Motostrelki
2nd Place: 7th Panzer
>favorite NATO unit
A-10 Warthog ATGM
2nd place: Fire Team (AT-4) in the M2 Bradley >favorite PACT unit
Motostrelki METIS in the BMP-1P
2nd place: The little 35 point SPG truck lol
Sometimes the best you can hope for is threating the counterbattery to just force him to relocate and alleviate some of the pressure. Other than that once you have the arty, just fire it at juicy targets instead of counterbatterying and at least equalize the pressure.
But other than that:
Multiple, simultaneous, deep strikes with CAS.
This is a good idea. It's perfectly possible if a bit dangerous.
Compared to RD, due to income inflation, shit-tier units are priced much more competitively and "good" units priced very highly. Crits can also instakill a challenger from the front.
Basically, WARNO is a lot more spammy. People are upset at spam but the reality is just cheap units > good units.
>People are upset at spam but the reality is just cheap units > good units.
True to a point, but my last game where my M1A1(HA) abrams (300 points) got like 9 kills (720 points) against T-62 spam alone shows its not a universal rule lol
Currently the 'sweet spot' seems to be as many of the ~150-200 point tanks as possible. As in M1 Abrams / M1A1 Abrams; or T-72M1 / T-80B tier. Spamming the goldilocks middle at least for me has had the best success.
I would rather have 2 base abrams than 1 superheavy because the main challenge with superheavies is they just simply will die to planes. Also, Warno maps are a little smaller / cramped so the odds of your opponent being able to bum rush you or forest-shot you with a RPG to the side are higher.
That said when it comes to infantry spam is definitely the name of the game. The update improved this dynamic a lot I would say, but at the end of the day a flood of flame engineers and squads with METIS or Dragon II launchers can rip through a forest and come out the other end as a force to be reckoned with.
Lost a game to someone who played 82nd Airborne who just spammed nothing but Dragon fire teams, Stinger squads, flame engineers, and airborne squads. In retrospect there was possible counterplay but his initial human wave was so strong and I just got ripped apart by the endless wave of ATGMs and his stingers killed all my copters lol. I panicked and sent cheap tanks to try and fight them but the sheer quantity of Dragon II's overcame me
The inf-spam meta is also why the light-vehicle "cheap spam" is also meta. But I think more active mortar use might be the real under-explored territory here to counter it.
Now that they're adding EW aspects like jamming radar optics and changing the SEAD to debuff AA instead of being a missile truck I feel like the groundwork is being laid to finally go beyond RD in depth.
They're being bold with mechanics. Lets just see if that boldness translates to units. Some divisions feel left behind or left out from the adding of traits.
>reach the other side of the map in a 10v10 >it's pointless because the enemy can just keep spawning shit
You don't have this problem in smaller games because if you're in the enemy's spawns you've probably already hunted down most of his CVs, but I hate how WARNO encourages slogging out in the centre of the map and juicy suicide cluster bombings more than actually controlling territory in my favorite game mode.
shit bros ive been getting a lot better at the game and was on like a 7 win streak in ranked but i get absolutely destroyed by the airborne divisions particularly the PACT VDV division
how the frick am i supposed to compete as like 3rd armored >infinite iglas + ASF spam neutralizes my air >cheap howitzer spam kills my AA and any vehicle that gets visible even for a second >cost effective infantry horde in every forest and town, fireteams just cant compete >over 9000 konkurs and metis cards makes any of my vehicles DOA on open ground >every unit is pound for pound cheaper
I basically fought it to a draw / early lead then faded in the stretch and ultimately folded as i literally ran out of infantry cards
Watching the replay I saw some stuff I could have done differently, but the problem I always have is its really hard to know where my enemy is weak while the game is happening.
Obviously recon exists but the with enough IGLA spam helicopters are not viable and infantry has such high stealth in cover theres no way to probe and get intel without spending all your points on one-way trip suicide recon missions.
I always overestimate the number of forces my opponent has lol im like general mcclellan im seeing double and getting spooked by ghost units
3rd Armored has more powerful units, but is much slower to build up forces. A lot of its power budget is spent on Abrams, Bradleys, and A-10's. Everything is really good but expensive.
35th-YA has weaker units individually, but are more cost effective, and more get on the field faster.
To win, you have to weather the initial onslaught and build up and unstoppable frick-you strong push of armor and cut through them. This means you have to play defensively at first with your ground forces, but also make some strong plays early with A-10's, Apaches, or similar to get some kills and not completely lose the initiative / take too many losses.
3rd Armored early-game air spam is 'meta' because otherwise each fire team is ~100 points in the Bradley and your cheapest abram is ~240 points, whereas the VDV guy is buying 40 point INF in a 20 point transport that gets sold - you'll fall behind too fast and get overwhelmed.
You're right though. 35th is fricked to play against. The main thing is they just get wild helicopter and air spam, while also having enough strong infantry and infantry-based AT options to fill up every nook and cranny of the map. They are just fricking annoying. You think you're winning and then they spam those transport helicopters with rockets over here and the SPG trucks there and a Spetsnaz push through the forest and then the whole line collapses. That's why you need to hit them hard early. If you can get map control and recon your tanks will eat them alive.
On the Artillery side sounds like you should have just counter-batteried though, the howitzers are towed and so have slow move speed and can't get out of the way in time.
3rd Armored has more powerful units, but is much slower to build up forces. A lot of its power budget is spent on Abrams, Bradleys, and A-10's. Everything is really good but expensive.
35th-YA has weaker units individually, but are more cost effective, and more get on the field faster.
To win, you have to weather the initial onslaught and build up and unstoppable frick-you strong push of armor and cut through them. This means you have to play defensively at first with your ground forces, but also make some strong plays early with A-10's, Apaches, or similar to get some kills and not completely lose the initiative / take too many losses.
3rd Armored early-game air spam is 'meta' because otherwise each fire team is ~100 points in the Bradley and your cheapest abram is ~240 points, whereas the VDV guy is buying 40 point INF in a 20 point transport that gets sold - you'll fall behind too fast and get overwhelmed.
You're right though. 35th is fricked to play against. The main thing is they just get wild helicopter and air spam, while also having enough strong infantry and infantry-based AT options to fill up every nook and cranny of the map. They are just fricking annoying. You think you're winning and then they spam those transport helicopters with rockets over here and the SPG trucks there and a Spetsnaz push through the forest and then the whole line collapses. That's why you need to hit them hard early. If you can get map control and recon your tanks will eat them alive.
On the Artillery side sounds like you should have just counter-batteried though, the howitzers are towed and so have slow move speed and can't get out of the way in time.
I'm not really a 3rd armor player but I think what I'd do is simply challenge them for air dominance. You have the F-15s, you have the A-10s. Hell YOU'RE the air division not him. His ground based AA isn't great so if you win the air war you're in a great position and can take down helicopters with your A10s. Drain Iglas by flying over his AA with your F-15. In the end you can bomb him out or swarm him with Apaches.
Relying on ground units and expensive abrams against him is just going to be a slog when it comes to cleaning up the infantry spam and he'll throw bombers at your expensive tanks. So your own bombers are gonna be necessary simply to speed up the process, and for bombers to get free reign you need to clear the airspace, which should be doable as 3rd armored.
>get clustered instantly
You can't get superheavies. (For one, they're just heavies lmao).
Because if you need to build an army worthy of mordor to support it so it won't die. >needs supply for repair and smoke rearm >needs recon to spot targets because it can't see shit >needs CAP and/or long range radar AA to cover you at all times because you are a clusterbomb magnet and they'll somehow always have vision on you >needs anti-heli AA to stave away panic helicopters >needs fire-support because you sure as hell can't clean up all the shit-tier infantry on your own
Basically just cheapshit instead and build. Then at the end if you've cleared the skies or have built all the support you can maybe bring a heavy.
>I always overestimate the number of forces my opponent has lol im like general mcclellan im seeing double and getting spooked by ghost units
recon is your friend anon, always remember that if you are trading even barely acceptably your opponent never has many more forces than you do
I haven't played them enough to know, and I also play singleplayer almost exclusively because I don't invest enough time to be any good against micro-heavy sweats in MP, but I like them just for the flavor.
I wish I could enjoy the SP, but the AI just too horrible. It’s a shame that Eugen never made it bearable, and I’m sure that it also has directly affected the number of MP players as it is hard to get in the game as a beginner when the AI can’t act as a proper training opponent.
wargame red dragon has a series of campaigns which are pretty good, but the AI is bad so its almost a tower defense game as the AI suicide bombs you with all of its forces. That said it is genuinely fun
Warno will have a much bigger single-player based on the 'army general' mode they developed for steel division 2, which is basically almost a 'total war' style strategic layer where you move units around on a map, then do tactical battles. the single-player AI is also much much improved and i would say is at a competent level.
Regiments has a more traditional single player campaign but i cant really comment on it. it has no multiplayer at all
>which is basically almost a 'total war' style strategic layer where you move units around on a map, then do tactical battles
Isn't that what the Wargame campaigns are?
>That said it is genuinely fun
Bullshit.
Defense of Busan is good. The rest are shit because they're weighed down by the absolutely fricking abysmal naval combat.
Bear vs. Dragon is absolute dogshit, not even worth attempting.
Man have you played the EE campaign recently? It is so fricking tedious and slow. It has better campaign design in terms of it being a conventional RTS game camapign with a linear series of missions, but holy shit man that campaign is just so much waiting to queue up lots of tanks and then attack moving.
The best thing about EE was the versus campaign. I would play against my friend who was good at wawrgame and he'd take the side that was always worse off
wargame red dragon has a series of campaigns which are pretty good, but the AI is bad so its almost a tower defense game as the AI suicide bombs you with all of its forces. That said it is genuinely fun
Warno will have a much bigger single-player based on the 'army general' mode they developed for steel division 2, which is basically almost a 'total war' style strategic layer where you move units around on a map, then do tactical battles. the single-player AI is also much much improved and i would say is at a competent level.
Regiments has a more traditional single player campaign but i cant really comment on it. it has no multiplayer at all
notes there are plans to bring SD2's army general whatever to it, which I heard was good but haven't played myself so I can't testify to it.
>which I heard was good
it was a bit mixed, the overall campaign was fun but the skirmish maps tended to get reused a lot and the way your individual forces were split up, you could go into battles with like half a deck
the set forces of ALB's campaign with the map and movement of AG would be the best mix
Yeah, SD2 army general takes some time to wrap your head around, or you’re gonna have bad time with fights where you get only infantry against tanks etc., and some awful match-ups can’t be avoided. Not necessarily a bad thing but something to be aware of.
I believe they later expanded it to allow deployment of up to five battalions per a battle.
What I'm not sure will translate are the strategic level abilities like battalions of AA not allowing the deployment of any planes within their influence on the map. Maybe helicopters could ignore it so air assault battalions aren't easily countered, but I feel aircraft are a lot more essential in Warno to making certain armies good.
>I believe they later expanded it to allow deployment of up to five battalions per a battle.
that would change it up, I only played shortly after release
RD despite the braindead AI because WARNO's general mode get's boring after an hour because most battles are very samey. Regiments is alright but it's smaller scale than both and the AI cheats a frickton
Skill issue.
What you do is build an impenetrable wall of infantry. Make sure all your berlin rifles have a supply truck for dat continuous RR damage. Then you get a shitton of artillery. If he tries to counterbattery you, use the nighthawk to snipe his arty. Use artillery to shell things that are too far away. Push with berlin light rifles and melt everything else. Avoid long ranges at all cost. If it can't be helped, use smoke screens to set up ranges such that berlin light rifles are always in range of using their RR.
arguably its intentional / historical but yeah no doubt, besides BLR's which are OP (I want more recoilless rifles god dammit!!!) Berlin Command frickin sucks, probably the only division that can be called objectively bad
The Berlin Light Rifles are great, but it's true it's not enough
arguably its intentional / historical but yeah no doubt, besides BLR's which are OP (I want more recoilless rifles god dammit!!!) Berlin Command frickin sucks, probably the only division that can be called objectively bad
Just played a match with them in a rather open map, and holy frick is their AA miserly to use. When your ground based AA is all manpads or shitty AAA, you’d want a good fighter but nope, you either get slow as frick AA Harriers that are useless at anything but copter sniping, or you need to use your expensive strike planes as shitty multiroles.
I can’t recall the last time I got plane raped thst hard.
Mistrals and Stingers are fine otherwise, but it’s a pain to construct a large area AA net on them alone. I really like them in hotspots, but you’d need something more mobile or long-ranged against planes if you want to cover a wider front.
warno is cool and fresh, was on the fence for ages even bought and returned it b4, but the current version of the game is enjoyable, also i have the feeling that there a less meme strats or atleast a lot of people havent figured out the meta yet. had fun 1v1 matches.
also i havent met an artygay until now in teamgames
>SAM ranges increased, but bugged so no missile has range over 4000m, not even air to air missiles >changed splash damage on everything so nothing can kill infantry, bombers made useless, artillery made useless >LOS tool also brought undocumented LOS change, units in blue area pretty much act as obstructed rather than stealthed units and so you get invisible tanks shooting you >literally impossible to attack a town now because nothing damages infantry
Biggest balance change was basically "Nerfed UK" who everyone agreed needs buffs
When asked why no buffs reply is simply >waiting for le meta to settle
Literally seconds after someone found a way to make 1st AD bearable by using gun groups and MG teams to get cheap warriors and scorpion tanks to swarm with it was nerfed immediately. Guess waiting for meta to settle just means everyone giving up playing UK.
yeah dude the shit is fricked
HE bombers, helicopter rockets, and artillery essentially do nothing now lmao
eugen says they intentionally hit it with the nerf bat as hard as possible to then incrementally move it back up until it 'feels right' but i think it didn't feel overpowered before
people did get annoyed at how artillery could just one-by-one delete units from the map, how suicide HE bombers would guarantee get value, and how strong helicopters were in general. but IMO the problem wasnt really the raw damage
they should have increased AA effectiveness, e.g. damage and range, and should have increased artillery dispersion or aim time rather than making it do ... no damage lol
you can literally have two HE bombers drop two full payloads on one squad in a forest and they'll survive. it's moronic
frickin eugen man the post-Oudinot, pre-this patch Warno felt so fricking good
yeah dude the shit is fricked
HE bombers, helicopter rockets, and artillery essentially do nothing now lmao
eugen says they intentionally hit it with the nerf bat as hard as possible to then incrementally move it back up until it 'feels right' but i think it didn't feel overpowered before
people did get annoyed at how artillery could just one-by-one delete units from the map, how suicide HE bombers would guarantee get value, and how strong helicopters were in general. but IMO the problem wasnt really the raw damage
they should have increased AA effectiveness, e.g. damage and range, and should have increased artillery dispersion or aim time rather than making it do ... no damage lol
you can literally have two HE bombers drop two full payloads on one squad in a forest and they'll survive. it's moronic
frickin eugen man the post-Oudinot, pre-this patch Warno felt so fricking good
I think they actually also decreased HE values across the board. TTK is super high now. Tanks can just unload on infantry and they keep on trucking. In buildings they’re practically invincible until the building is destroyed.
Im 99% sure this will be addressed very soon but for now the ‘meta’ is shaking out to be swarms of infantry because they’re so durable. ATGM’s are super effective. So just like, swarms of Dragons, TOW’s, and beefy frontline squads are really hard to deal with.
It doesn’t feel good man, tanks vs. infantry is gimped. You’re actually incentivized to swarm cheap tanks because you need that many barrels and guns firing to deal enough damage to deal with the infantry.
In forests though, forget it, idk what the frick you’re supposed to do except ‘have more guys’
1 year ago
Anonymous
>In forests though, forget it, idk what the frick you’re supposed to do except ‘have more guys’
Because of the LOS changes, you'll note that inside a forest there's now a blue area. The blue area is "can fire, but cannot see". This means if something 'else' sees anything in the blue area, you can shoot at it without them able to shoot back. So you can exploit this to use tanks or IFVs in forests. They literally can't see you because apparently it works as "no line of sight" and not like stealth. So their optics don't seem to matter either, they need direct vision on you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
i thought there are no LoS changes, just the LoS tool display. i thought blue area means ‘the unit can fire at units in this zone, but can not necessarily detect all the units in this zone (based on respective optics and stealth stats).’
1 year ago
Anonymous
They balance around their tiny quote unquote "competitive scene" rather than just playing the game themselves.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>competitive scene
Why do small games even care about that shit? They're not going to be the next Starcraft. Moreover, I'm willing to bet that the majority of their player base doesn't even play multiplayer.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Loyal pay piggies, I suppose. To get SP fellas to buy your useless nation packs, you'd need to add a campaign or some such thing.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Singleplayer babbies are the cancer of RTS, they are the reason why the genre is almost dead today. Only competitive multiplayer matters as the only pure expression of what RTS games are aupposed to be about.
1 year ago
Anonymous
This is literally completely backwards lol, the vast majority of RTS players throughout its history and especially at its peak were almost SP exclusively. This is an objectively true fact. The multiplayer sweatlord community is the cancerous growth on RTS that has killed the host.
I say this as someone who plays multiplayer RTS as their primary genre lol, fact of the matter is RTS gradually abandoned their single player communities to myopically focus on the vocal minority of us MP spergs and that had a big hand in making the genre's releases ever less relevant to what the vast majority of people want to play.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The vast majority of RTS players play single player. But keep coping, delusional moron.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I'm willing to bet that the majority of their player base doesn't even play multiplayer.
I think this would be a huge stretch based on what I know about Wargame players at the very least. I think there's a lot of people who play MP in small groups with their friends, especially the Army General mode in SD, without ever touching the "mass" multiplayer lobbies, but the AI in these games is so annoying to play against there's no chance that the majority of people play these games play to watch the AI try to sneak heavy tanks behind your lines or attack your positions in brain dead human wave attacks.
I don't know what Eugene was thinking with the latest patch. It was perfect and then back to shit so quickly that I cannot believe that this was given the green light at all. Now morons who never space their tanks or infantry are being positively rewarded because they can't be punished for their brainlet move, with the only counter being the same brainlet move. The worst part is that a huge chunk of the player base are absolute mouth breathing morons who have a tantrum when their epic and tacticool straight line of tanks gets bombed because they're too moronic to micro units beyond mass select into attack move. Now the exact same people who asked for this trash are asking for a revert after realizing every game has turned into heavy tank spamming or infantry blobs.
The division system is such crap too and should've stayed with Steel Division. The fact that an infantry div is restricted to less than 20 incredibly shitty ATGM units and being entirely unable to get anything better while an armored div can have over 40 significantly armored tanks is beyond stupid. There shouldn't be a handful of divisions which exist to be an optional joke that you could play like the Brits or one of the W. Germs divs. Sure you can argue that certain coalitions in RD weren't good but in the hands of someone competent can be made to be effective, with Warno being so painfully restrictive in comparison and locked tight for the sake of "realism" that it isnt worth the effort to play them. A Eugene dev even stated that it was intended to have worthless divs with a completely unbalanced amount of unit availability for flavor.
Tl;dr realismgays suck and Eugene is moronic
1 year ago
Anonymous
>realismgays
Eugen game design decisions have zero to do with realism. >Eugene is moronic
They've been moronic for many years now. They lost critical talent back in 2014 and there is an ongoing employee exodus since 2018.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Buddy, the first paragraph contradicts your claims about "realism". They listen to morons on discord who cry when a plane or arty kills their shiny units. Decreasing the damage is the opposite of realism.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Not him but the gays on their Discord claim that reduced damage is realistic. It's even a popular opinion that cluster planes shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily. It's the same group of people who demanded that AA should have way more range to reflect their real life counterpart, which did eventually happen.
Eugene has been particularly more communicative with Warno than past games so I wouldn't be surprised if they're actually listening to mass complaining.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Tanks were always overpowered in Eugen games since Red Dragon. It only gets worse after each game/update. It's been forever since I played Warno, but Steel Division 2 was extremely bad, infantry only had point blank AT weapons (aside from shitty AT rifles), and AT guns couldn't be hidden in a forest
1 year ago
Anonymous
In Red Dragon infantry is overpowered. It is deadly, difficult to dislodge from a defensive position and dirt cheap, which is balanced by their short range (excluding ATGM teams, who are much squishier). Expensive tanks are difficult to kill with the right positioning, but they are literally incapable of defeating infantry in towns/forests on their own. This creates a balanced environment where you have to use combined arms to its full extent.
SD2 throws it all out of the window. Not only there are less unit classes in this game, but there is also zero balance between them. It's a shitty game.
Warno leverated it somewhat, but now Eugen is once again doing balance swings with their braindead buffs/nerfs to AA and aircraft, which was an issue in SD2 too.
SEAD. You fly them to an area where you expect there to be enemy AA, if they detect any AA radar they'll fire missiles at it and frick off. If the enemy is good at micro he'll order his radar AA to turn off their radars when he detects a WW approaching, and you'll be screwed.
AI in wargame sucks. They get like infinite more spawn points and just bum rushes you. It's impossible to win in an open engagement you need to bait them deep inside cities or forests. Plus they always know where your fricking cv is too. It's way worse in Naval. You gotta cheese them and it's not fun, only time consuming.
what other nations do you think they'll add to WARNO?
since they're doing alt-his anyway, I hope they'll throw in yugoslavia and china on the pact side
Belgium FreeLC.
Poland DLC.
Royal Mounted Corp DLC.
Czech Republic surplus from the 80s (no Moderna for you Chud!) DLC
134th Romanian Gypsy Patatroopers Division DLC (FINALLY, BASED EUGEN!)
Dksh
Inevitable Finnish Expansion (NATO this time, with a long essay from Madmat about how stupid and unrealistic Red Dragon is)
They've announced they have two planned expansions
NORTHAG - Baltic Sea (Scando, Poland)
SOUTHAG - Mediterranean (e.g. Italy, Yugo)
We will also get Marines decks (e.g. US / USSR Marines) in one or both in addition to new countries
'89 MiG-29Ks with different loadouts are the only thing I'm really looking forward to in this game. Luv me Sov. Marines, love me Ka-28s, hope they add me Shark, simple as.
>opponent stacks five airborne squads inside an apartment building >call in my Su-24 for some high explosive Syrian War action >drop 8 x 500kg bombs right on the roof expecting to make Turkey look like the little league >kill one (1) yankee >they're not even stunned either
So this is the power of German engineering huh?
The 10v10 mode has alot of inherent appeal towards casual gamers so I think the WG series has a higher proportion playing MP than other RTS games.
That said we're probably talking about 20-30%
The J-21 is a rocket plane with 6 secondary napalm rockets, no one suspects it ever has them either. I like to provide danger close support to my allies infantry with it, they never suspect the napalm to rout their guys. Yugoslavia has the most napalm units in the game, so you can always frick with your team. The prototype vehicle with the rockets is good too, because it has napalm rockets to spam at spawn roads
If there’s something I REALLY dislike about Eugen, it’s how they are so stingy with maps. Yeah, developing them takes time and I suppose that they have dev tools from hell because they seem to be so averse to making more maps, but it’s just so tiresome to see those same maps again and again and again. It ruined especially Red Dragon for me, because it had such comically small map selection, with a horribad ratio of actually enjoyable maps vs. junk.
agreed - low map selection in sd2 kinda ruined it for me. Eugene has gone on record saying basically that adding maps would make the game over 100gb which they don't wanna do for some reason
agreed - low map selection in sd2 kinda ruined it for me. Eugene has gone on record saying basically that adding maps would make the game over 100gb which they don't wanna do for some reason
It really looks like a skill issue. If they were good at their job, they could improve their dev tools, but unfortunately, they're french.
>not buying as many 10 point supply trucks as you possibly can at the start and a 15 point tank to shoot at them to cause a massive chain reaction
Weak.
Wasted dubs, you should just: >spam cheap units >follow teammate's cv >have helicopters around cv >have plenty of supply vehicles around cv >fly cheap planes nearby >enemy now sees helicopters >enemy now bombs ally cv >supply's make big explosion
If you're white I will make you suffer through the game until you learn it like I do with everyone else. You must hand me your evropan card though and I'll reward you.
You'll need a cheat program, dunno where to get them, but it'll probably be in some slavic forum. There is a FoW cheat that people use, I assume you could also cheat in more resources per minute, or more starting resources. I know the trainers allow you to have infinite funds and infinite unit availability, so those could be done too. Maybe a cheat that improves a units stats or effects hit chances could go under the radar. Considering that the games anti-cheat is developer made, it would be easy to crack. It also hasn't been updated since 2015 iirc
You'll need a cheat program, dunno where to get them, but it'll probably be in some slavic forum. There is a FoW cheat that people use, I assume you could also cheat in more resources per minute, or more starting resources. I know the trainers allow you to have infinite funds and infinite unit availability, so those could be done too. Maybe a cheat that improves a units stats or effects hit chances could go under the radar. Considering that the games anti-cheat is developer made, it would be easy to crack. It also hasn't been updated since 2015 iirc
for multiplayer? wouldnt unlimited points or units be too obvious? i want to cheat in 10v10s
Only if you make it obvious. The points would be good, since you could always buy that one or two units that you needed. No one would notice as long as you don't keep plopping down whole waves of units. The unlimited units would be undetectable if you make sure to only go over once in awhile. You could also just use the normal unit amount while bringing the max vet available. Also 10v10s are such huge cluster fricks that you could get away with a lot of cheating. iirc Eugen only gives out week long bans at most
Apaches and other expensive choppers are a mission for a suicide plane. Get a cheap-ish air superiority fighter, strafe the chopter with AA missiles and some gunfire, and it almost always gets blasted out of the sky. Granted, so does your fighter with high certainty too, but who gives a frick as long as you end up winning in the trade?
For now it has only multi and skirmish, but if I remember correctly, army general (dynamic campaign like in Steel Division) is coming in the next update. I might buy the game then, if it turns out to be good.
Neither. Both are bloated games for cave dwellers with more than 3 different types of mental disabilities, made by a gamedev companies with the some of the worst management practice. Just sacrifice a sheep to Ubisost so they give us RUSE 2.
After about 15 multiplayer games, red dragon has finally clicked for me, and I'm actually having fun in MP. Last night I ran circles around my enemies in a 10v10 forest fight. I had a leclerc and a few low-tier french infantry in 20mm transports. They were spamming spetz and spetz grus with BMP-3s and had two burratinos supporting them against me. Every time they pushed in to the forest I fell back and dismantled them piece by piece. The burros only ended up killing an already damaged sapper and a recon inf. The kisser was at the end when they charged in with a 200 point command tank and then my own command tank shot it in the ass.
I know what you mean. Getting real tired of the longbow + adats + atacms + cluster delete button artillery + nighthawks + delta force + suspiciously well aimed barrages/air strikes at CVs combo personally
>be me >play france every ranked game >spam amx-30 b2's >spam amx-10 recon tanks >spam grenadiers in vab's >play defensively for first 15 minutes >attack move with my entire force >win every time
i have legit gone from like a 40% WR in ranked to about 65% with this amazing strategum
eugene please
>be a chink >have an alt >join a 3v3 >quit as soon as the game starts to get more income and availability >HE and cluster the road outside the enemy spawn >guaranteed win without a challenge
I have no idea why this do this, and it's more pathetic than anything. Imagine trying to cheat this hard just to get your WR up when you can just kill bots like wtf
I've been a huge WARNO booster and really enjoying it but fricking French fricks still not reverting (or partially reversing) the awful HE damage reductions and plane bomb / artillery nerfs is fricking pissing me off so much
I win like 65% of my ranked games now only playing 5th Blindee or 7th Panzer and spamming AMX-30 B2's or T-72's because le blob is le unstoppable
But it's not any fun. I mixed it up with some 3rd Armored / 79th games which was OK but IDK.
WARNO's balance right at the Oudinot update was so good, why did they frick with it? It was snappy, fast, lethal, and every unit was valuable. Now it's just shitty medium tank spam.
Frick it, I'm gonna boot up Red Dragon for the first time in like 3 years this weekend. Wish me luck boys I always sucked at Red Dragon
Emmanuel Macron is fricking right French fricks are so fricking lazy, I hope the Macron Kill Squads force Eugene to fricking fix their games and work till their 70 to get the god damn helicopter line of sight fixed in Warno, lazy fricks
Just refunded WARNO after seeing it has mirrors in the automatch, frick that shit killed SD 2 for me. Why even have different equipment, two blocks of powers with unique equipment and synergies if I'm going to fight NATO on NATO. It kills all immersion for me. Frick player Numbers as well, they could include a toggle button like in AOE2 that you don't want fricking mirrors. I'm so mad, at least Broken arrow wont do that shit, at least as far as I know
Which game is good to get into this genre?
I do own Steel Divison Normandy 44 cause I got a key years ago from the devs but I never actually played it properly.
And why are all these games still so expensive? Red Dragon is 30€ for a 2014 game?
Thoughts on the new update?
Also I see there's a couple of options for balance mods that slow down vehicles and such - is there a preferred mod for this? I agree that the game feels a bit blitzy and could be a slower paced
My summary of the situation: >Warno hits all-time peak with Oudinot patch, really good balance, everyone was having a great time, everything felt punchy and lethal, game felt like a faster-paced, more action-packed WGRD, it was wonderful, peak player counts >Eugen for absolutely no reason except for screeching noskill morons on reddit, and completely gimps HE damage thereby severely reducing the lethality of artillery, bombers, and tanks vs. infantry; introduces a bunch of other moron-tier balance changes such as reducing autocannon aim-time to make autocannons stupid OP in forests, etc. >Eugen eventually walks back the changes *a little bit* which is *better* but game is in a super weird state >Now all the unit prices have no relation to actual effectiveness; planes are too expensive and do too little; superheavies are too expensive and die too easily >Formerly middling medium tanks are now god-tier because you can spam them in sufficient numbers to counter terminator-tier infantry which require like 10 cannon shots to die >its been weeks since the last meaningful balance patch
what am i missing
Eugene can still save the day by further walking back some of the HE changes, if they really insist on not having artillery be a delete button (to be fair), then also need to do an across-the-board major change to prices and availability
Seconded, Oudinot was very close to being perfect regarding the state of overall unit type balance, only really requiring division and unit-spefcific adjustments. Now it is utterly moronic how even super-expensive planes like that carpet bomb Mirage in Berlin Command are near useless, because why take a risk of using such a plane if it can’t reliably kill anything?
Seeing the Eugene devs respond to whining on their platforms has been the funniest shit I've ever seen
>Some moron on Reddit and their Discord whines about AA being shit >AA being a giant pain in the ass due to units not firing on targets they have a clear visual on >Other morons jump in and agree >Eugene dev chimes in to say "ok guys, buffs will come in the next patch" >Knee-jerk buff to AA by inflating range but completely forgot to adjust SEAD accordingly >Now radar AA like the Buk and I-Hawk can snipe SEAD before it can fire its missile >Other divs have infrared options that can ass blast planes anyway >Planes effectively turn into cruise missiles >The solution to the "suicide plane" is now even worse >Autists are content now that an entire roster of units is now dog shit
>morons demand and suggest special features for certain infantry, such as IFV infantry performing better near IFVs >Eugene lazily slaps together some ideas and throws it out >Traits such as Special Forces literally do not do anything in the code and is an entirely fake trait to make it seem they put more effort than they actually did >Autists beg for FOBs non-stop >Dev chimes in to hint and tease FOBs >Get FOBs >Day one you could find any FOB by selecting an enemy unit and using the LOS tool to scan for FOBs >People would snipe FOBs in every game minutes in
Then >Eugene promises new VFXs for artillery >Posts videos of the new VFX >implement the update >All artillery trails became invisible and impact explosions for some artillery like the buratino being completely invisible >Absolute shit eaters can't decide if the lack of trails was intended or not, with most assuming the former and stating that it's "realistic"
One step forward ten steps back every single time. Everything post Oudinot is just falling apart and Eugene staff became increasingly more silent, which is a good thing considering any time they appeal to the Reddit crowd the game just gets fricking worse
>Some moron on Reddit and their Discord whines about AA being shit >AA being a giant pain in the ass due to units not firing on targets they have a clear visual on >Other morons jump in and agree >Eugene dev chimes in to say "ok guys, buffs will come in the next patch"
thanks for pointing this out this has been the story of this game man
the warno sub is pretty bleak but there are some good posts that point out a myriad of issues >helicopter behavior being absolutely borked AKA suicide helis that cannot acquire targets or align weapons >AA can never see its targets >planes lose targeting all the time when they really shouldnt or dont drop bombs >line of sight for every unit being really finnicky
but they never address the 'fundamental' issues they just like try to paper over it with an arbitrary AA buff like you gave the example of
Worst of fricking all is how the reddit crowd seems to HATE the fact that bombers, artillery, etc. do any fricking damage.
don't you remember ALB and RD where NATO test players got one of the two PACT test players banned from the game when he pointed out balance issues in alpha?
>its been weeks since the last meaningful balance patch >Now all the unit prices have no relation to actual effectiveness;
My biggest frustration here is nothing is changed in a "big picture" manner. >"Oh no we don't like the TTK". >They do some HE changes which affects everything.
Nothing else is adjusted.
>"Hmmm infantry vs tank combat is too low TTK, time to increase infantry AT aim-time and reduce ammo" >autocannons untouched >IFVs and Autocannon tankspam annihilate infantry >Huge nerf to infantry in practice, prices remain same, only buy tanks
Warno is basically a half finished stitched together mix of WRD and some of the worse aspects of SD2. Idk what's with Eugein and trying to shove the moronic ideas they had for SD when neither of the two games eclipsed WRD, it's like they hate anyone who likes this game with a passion
i was a huge warno booster and have dumped a ton of hours into it but if eugen doesn't release like, a really big comprehensive balance and polish patch within 2-4 weeks i might be done with it. like big reworks of unit stats, unit costs, damage profiles, the works.
im legitimately pretty stunned at how eugen seems to (1) have competence issues (broken patches and broken balance, not just in the normal complaining way but for real - their last update broke all rocket and artillery trails); (2) have a vision for the game that is kind of bad for the game and less fun (much higher TTK gameplay for some reason and favoring spammy tactics)
it makes me feel like i've hitched my cart to a bad horse so to speak
they obviously could totally turn it around for me but i really need to see some progress here personally
Increasing TTK was a mistake and it's probably here to stay. A good chunk of players actually like the higher TTK. It's hard to describe, but there's definitely an insane level of patch whiplash. >Infantry divisions performing as well as armored ones, to infantry now losing to tanks in CQC scenarios because launcher aim time is long enough where it's possible to stun and nuke infantry cohesion where they can never land a rocket again >Infantry with 14AP or less being able to kill tanks in CQC with numbers to now being unable to put a dent in anything >Howitzers were able to blast static tanks to now barely scratching them unless massed to ridiculous numbers >Cluster planes goes from tank group deleter to maybe damaging a group of tanks before getting shot down by 6000 range AA >Div variety became even more meaningless, with lobbies changing to everyone now playing 79th, 39th, UZ on Pact and 3rd, 5E, 5. Panzer on NATO >Spam tactics are more viable now that the spam solutions are barely relevant
I'll never understand why people like the division system. It's the ultimate illusion of variety, especially when a handful of divs are so ass that nobody plays them. Even in SD2 you'd have infantry focused divisions with unique equipment in low numbers but then you have an armored division with as many medium tanks as you have infantry, with medium armor being king and it's the only shit people play. I have no faith in Eugene in fixing this if they couldn't get it right before. The way the Eugene devs are speaking when responding to community feedback makes it seem like a big patch is on the way but knowing Eugene it'll be a few tweaks before another month of total radio silence, or something breaking yet again for a week.
I actually sort of liked the division system in SD1. They felt more unique and since the scale was smaller you'd be more involved with the units. Also the phase availability and income was a balancing factor before they gutted it in SD2 leaving it a vestigial feature and making nobody happy.
The game is in a really odd place right now where the only viable strategies are spam and dumb rock-paper-scissors counters like rocket helis to kill infantry spam, planes are still kamikaze rockets to take out Command tanks or helis and crap like that. I love the way vehicle on vehicle conflict works at the moment, but HE needs to be buffed in the next patch or the game will continue to be a boring spamfest where the player with the most cards wins. The only reason I'm playing it instead of RD is that I'm even more tired of the repetitive bullshit you get every time you open MP, and the existence of Israel both in and out of game.
It also sucks that there are entire categories of units that you will essentially never use not because there's a better option, but just because they're just not compatible with the way the game has been BUILT. Having to skip BM-21s and aa-guns s the Soviets is sacrilege.
i was a huge warno booster and have dumped a ton of hours into it but if eugen doesn't release like, a really big comprehensive balance and polish patch within 2-4 weeks i might be done with it. like big reworks of unit stats, unit costs, damage profiles, the works.
im legitimately pretty stunned at how eugen seems to (1) have competence issues (broken patches and broken balance, not just in the normal complaining way but for real - their last update broke all rocket and artillery trails); (2) have a vision for the game that is kind of bad for the game and less fun (much higher TTK gameplay for some reason and favoring spammy tactics)
it makes me feel like i've hitched my cart to a bad horse so to speak
they obviously could totally turn it around for me but i really need to see some progress here personally
You have things like Eugene changing veterancy to no longer give accuracy bonuses and instead being for morale, but you still have the option to bring in things like elite veterancy planes that provide such a marginal change to the unit that it's completely pointless to even upvet them. It would make sense if planes actually took morale damage but the AA to plane interaction is either die in miliseconds or fricking off the map successfully. I'm not sure why they didn't make it unit specific or just remove it entirely. Everything is just so half assed and nothing is thoroughly adjusted when knee jerk changes are made as if they have not a clue how their game works so they're just winging it.
The most frustrating part is that they alredy got most things right at some time (obviously not all at same time, but still). For example, Oudinot was really close to being perfect regarding ground unit rock-paper-scissors balance, and while planes tended to be suicide bombers in it too, at least they did enough damage to be worth it in it.
I dont think Eugene even understands that Oudinot was nearly perfect core combat design and all that was needed was more units, countries, and normal general rebalancing of unit availability and costs. MAYBE at that patch a SLIGHT debuff to artillery accuracy / damage and plane damage was warranted.
Then instead they pulled huge nerf levers across the board to whole damage types and everything feels mushy and confused now and unit price / power / availability is totally borked and nonsensical.
Most cost-effective price-to-performance tank in the game for the B2? You can have 24 of them. The only plausible tank option for the division in the challenger 2 for 2nd infantry? You get, uh, 4. Also bomber planes largely dont do shit and artillery struggles to get any kills.
2nd Infantry literally feels like some frenchman revenge against the British, it’s such a horribly junky deck. Dire lack of stuff that you actually need, and it has nothing special to compensate.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I mean... that's probably what it is. The French are unironically that petty.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>2nd infantry
Some good players apparently think it's fine. But there's nothing good about it!
1 year ago
Anonymous
Forgot pic.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Forgot pic.
2nd infantry has one and precisely one trick up its sleeve which is the SAS. because the SAS has both solid AT and AA, and really far forward deploy, you can combine the SAS with the Fox autocannon recon unit to do very cheesy early game pushes.
The entire trick revolves around doing something very out of the box to cripple the opponents immediate early game, and then then playing your heart out to seal the deal over the course of the game with the inferior rest of your deck.
This strategy is completely unavailable to the median player of course because the skill floor to make anything of it is so high, and its basically an all-in.
The main point is that after that meme, everything the 2nd Infantry has to bring to bear is objectively underpowered or underavailable or overpriced compared to basically every other division >British IFV's - not as good as other IFVs but too relatively expensive >British Infantry - British Rifles are actually pretty great but besides that their units are all 5-10 points too expensive per >British Armor - The only decent tank is the challenger 2 (because the other tanks have the reservist trait) but they only get maximum 6 of them at lowest vet >British air - broadly british planes are the worst in the game lol (and too expensive)
To see an example of the SAS meme in action check out this video
tbh 2nd Infantry would be in a much better spot if they made mostly minor price and availability changes. Particularly if they gave Challengers like...2 more availability per card, or had some non-reservist alternative lighter tank like how 8th infantry gets the m60 which is solid.
3rd armored division is the murica frick year 40 IQ pick.
Gets all the murica frick ye units like F-15, Bradleys, undeadable Aybrahams tanks, apaches etc.
Haha 3rd armored is definitely the best Murica deck but I would say weirdly its actually a pretty finnicky division to play, because so much power is 'unlocked' behind relatively expensive units, particularly the Abrams line, and its other power units (Warthog, f-16, Apaches,) aren't cheap either
In my humble experience 3rd armored play is basically spamming bradleys (recon and IFV) early game and trying to trade decently well with the TOW-2's and the dismounted infantry, while you slowly build up a frick-you unstoppable mass of Abrams over the course of 20 minutes, which you then use as an unstoppable steel wall to crush your opponent.
The thing with 3rd Armored is that if you encounter a disaster early game (like you are up against an airborne division and your initial bradleys get killed by METIS squads in a town push or something) then you are really on the back foot all game and may not recover
I have the best success actually playing early game like how France plays, where you spam a shitload of Recon Bradleys (instead of the AMX recon tanks), and just try to get enough cheeky / annoying kills to force your opponent to the defensive while you just slowly accumulate enough good 'ol murican armor to crush them
Like with all other tank divs though, your biggest enemy will be 'well placed ATGM's'. I had a game last night where I really effectively beat off multiple 3rd armored pushes by just hoarding Konkurs teams and BMP-2's and never letting them get close enough. Throwing SU-25's at the issue helps a lot too lol
man I can't play 3rd armor for shit. if i buy tanks early game its too many points and im too thin elsewhere. if i dont buy points i am at super high risk of just getting rolled by cheap tanks. bradleys are cool but the infantry options are pretty mid. basically when i play 3rd armored i feel like the match is decided by the first 5 minutes and whether i got counterpicked or not.
man ANZAC as a faction is really weird, tons of Vietnam-era stuff that isn't even good. The Hong Kong singleplayer campaign is wild because of this. Time traveling Chinese tanks fighting walker bulldogs that should have been all scrapped by 1984
>Warno has not enough content or players and still feels unfinished with lots of buggy bullshit and weird balance >Wargame doesn't have the QoL features that I can't live without anymore and the game / community is much sweatier and I get absolutely annihilated every match
The biggest problem with RD is how much people fricking stack in team games. Back when I went hard with the game I'd have people continuously swap to my team whenever I swapped. Couldn't even avoid the stack if I tried.
Anyone play FRAGO or any of the other gameplay mods?
Handful of skirmishes and digging it, heli rushes aren't as cheesy, pacing in general feels a bit better.
Why the frick do vehicles move so fast, seems like everyone is complaining about it and it just LOOKS weird to boot, tank columns Cannonball Run'ning their way to the front lines
I'm liking the Frago mod so far especially the replacement of satchel charges with grenade launchers. 16 max concurrent planes instead of 9, better rate of fire for rocket artillery, infantry engagements are more interesting, ATGMs are faster, anti-radar missiles match with anti air, vehicles move slower in forests, and artillery feels good.
Red Juggernaut took me 39 minutes and the AI moved its own CV out of the final zone at the end of the game, giving me the win when they would have been better staving off my tanks with Cobras and trying to hold the tree line.
I don't expect genius from the computer, but it should at least understand the mission's objectives and not do anything that would instantly lose the game. Even Chess bots know they can't move their King into mate.
Have patience. Operations and army general will release sometime this year.
Anyone else think the two Operations they released were pretty shit?
I'm not the biggest fan of the SD series but the Historical Battles in SD2 were way better than the two Warno Operations they released
For one thing the scale of these Operations was way, way too small, it doesn't feel like World War 3 at all, more like a minor skirmish between a handful of tanks. Second, they lacked any kind of interesting hook or scenario, it was literally just 'defend' and 'attack'. Third, even on Elite difficulty, they were way way too easy.
In general they felt like the kind of custom scenario a random teenager makes when learning the mapmaker lol
I beat Black Horse's Last Stand or whatever first try, just by putting out a few Abrams and hiding them in woods with some PIVADs to autoattack
Same with the Soviet one, I just helidropped the two towns at start and then massed a frick-you huge blob of t-80's and then Q-moved to win
Really pretty disappointing
yeah they were kinda shit. i agree scale way too small.
Eugen can't release a mapmaker because they don't have a plug-and-play mapmaker even internally, it's pretty obvious.
I like Eugen's games (in a masochistic way sometimes) but it's pretty obvious that their games are hopeless messes of spaghetti code and hard-coding and stitching together assets. It's probably a frustrating mess for them to make a map or adjust unit values or really do anything, because it's obvious how much of the programming is sort of improvised or rushed or forced through to 'get it to work' and put out content
They do not have a sophisticated, easy-to-use map-maker internally that they can release to the public, because they have not made one, unlike say Blizz built for Warcraft 3.
It's kind of a shame, if Mr. Eugene hadn't had that awful labor dispute due to mismanagement which caused 50% of their staff to quit after the release of SD1 then we may indeed have a much different Warno with enough manpower to have built in advance these kinds of tools.
But fact is Eugen was never a rich company so who knows if they could have even afforded to keep everyone on anyway, IDK
probably true
Red Juggernaut took me 39 minutes and the AI moved its own CV out of the final zone at the end of the game, giving me the win when they would have been better staving off my tanks with Cobras and trying to hold the tree line.
I don't expect genius from the computer, but it should at least understand the mission's objectives and not do anything that would instantly lose the game. Even Chess bots know they can't move their King into mate.
The change log is just a price reshuffle and
i didnt have this issue myself but not surprised
The biggest problem with RD is how much people fricking stack in team games. Back when I went hard with the game I'd have people continuously swap to my team whenever I swapped. Couldn't even avoid the stack if I tried.
the eugen insistence on having a 'player level' kills their lobbies. because people see those levels and self-consciously stack. and if players join a lobby with a stacked team they will immediately leave. they should get rid of visible player levels in lobby or have a lobby option where people pick which divisions they want to play and they get assigned to random team.
[...]
2nd infantry has one and precisely one trick up its sleeve which is the SAS. because the SAS has both solid AT and AA, and really far forward deploy, you can combine the SAS with the Fox autocannon recon unit to do very cheesy early game pushes.
The entire trick revolves around doing something very out of the box to cripple the opponents immediate early game, and then then playing your heart out to seal the deal over the course of the game with the inferior rest of your deck.
This strategy is completely unavailable to the median player of course because the skill floor to make anything of it is so high, and its basically an all-in.
The main point is that after that meme, everything the 2nd Infantry has to bring to bear is objectively underpowered or underavailable or overpriced compared to basically every other division >British IFV's - not as good as other IFVs but too relatively expensive >British Infantry - British Rifles are actually pretty great but besides that their units are all 5-10 points too expensive per >British Armor - The only decent tank is the challenger 2 (because the other tanks have the reservist trait) but they only get maximum 6 of them at lowest vet >British air - broadly british planes are the worst in the game lol (and too expensive)
To see an example of the SAS meme in action check out this video
tbh 2nd Infantry would be in a much better spot if they made mostly minor price and availability changes. Particularly if they gave Challengers like...2 more availability per card, or had some non-reservist alternative lighter tank like how 8th infantry gets the m60 which is solid.
well you'll be happy to hear the UK divisions are pretty decent now. not particularly good at anything besides SAS memes but not particularly bad at anything, except a fairly weak air tab. 15 point gun group + warrior milan = fun spam time.
Peak to me was Wargame Red Dragon campaigns.
Simpler compared to Steel Division but had enough battles and replayability in them that I think the only major thing missing from them was co-op.
I really liked that they limited your options and your losses and veterancy carried over through battles. I remember that in the 2nd Korean War I had this squadron of shitty ~50 points Etendards that otherwise barely see any use ever but those guys carried my game and by the end were all elites with dozens of kills including a ship or two.
Sort of made me yearn for some sort of roguelike mode where you slowly accumulate forces under your command as the world around you descends deeper into chaos of total war.
yeah, the wargame AI was pretty bad but i still had a lot of fun with those campaigns, even if sometimes they were practically tower defense missions lmao
Busan Pocket is of course iconic but I remember liking the Pearl of the Orient campaign
British Superheavies and air support vs. hordes of cheap chinese steel
Yeah, the campaigns were very often just you sitting on a point shooting ridiculous waves of enemies but due to how they worked it was fun because neither you or AI had all the tools at all times. Soviet campaign where you're basically stuck with shitty VDV and bunch of planes against a tidal wave of top tier Blufor gear made me savescum to extreme extent because losing a single ATGM meant total collapse of the defensive line. Planes were extremely powerful and important because anti-air was limited so you really had this feeling of establishing air supremacy by shooting down enemy jets and running SEAD. Sometimes it made sense to suffer some losses to take out enemy AA or superheavies or artillery because they wouldn't show up for the rest of the campaign.
Naval landings were cursed as frick but I liked that they posed a slightly different challenge.
I'm pretty sure they're talking about the Japanese campaign where you face hordes of Blue Dragon prototypes. I think the rationale is that you assault a tank school where all of the elite material of the JSDF is being kept.
I'm pretty sure they're talking about the Japanese campaign where you face hordes of Blue Dragon prototypes. I think the rationale is that you assault a tank school where all of the elite material of the JSDF is being kept.
You know you can just immediately spawn in the second aircraft carrier, buy a heli regiment from it, then destroy all the training regiments with helicopters because they don't have any AA?
The naval and airborne troops only have to fight junk, and by the time you hit the south island with all the american shit, assuming you're running on schedule, you'll have proper heavy armour and motorized regiments getting brought in.
Eugen can't release a mapmaker because they don't have a plug-and-play mapmaker even internally, it's pretty obvious.
I like Eugen's games (in a masochistic way sometimes) but it's pretty obvious that their games are hopeless messes of spaghetti code and hard-coding and stitching together assets. It's probably a frustrating mess for them to make a map or adjust unit values or really do anything, because it's obvious how much of the programming is sort of improvised or rushed or forced through to 'get it to work' and put out content
They do not have a sophisticated, easy-to-use map-maker internally that they can release to the public, because they have not made one, unlike say Blizz built for Warcraft 3.
It's kind of a shame, if Mr. Eugene hadn't had that awful labor dispute due to mismanagement which caused 50% of their staff to quit after the release of SD1 then we may indeed have a much different Warno with enough manpower to have built in advance these kinds of tools.
But fact is Eugen was never a rich company so who knows if they could have even afforded to keep everyone on anyway, IDK
Wargame campaigns suck generally. I like SD 2 army general campaigns better but the era sucks and gets old real fast plus there isnt any satisfying oomfp and pop to the battles similar to wargame and explosions its like puff and boring shizzles
Bros I feel like such a fricking chump for getting into Warno, I feel like Eugen is going to shit the bed, the game is never going to sell well, and eventually they are going to shutter and I've wasted my time and my precious brainbanks by stuffing it full of useless knowledge like how to be good at Warno
Eugen keeps releasing busted patch after busted patch, the Operations were a complete joke and really underwhelming, basic mechanics and unit feel is still buggy or fricked up, they are so damn slow at releasing content, they keep fricking up unit balance (artillery is now useless. OK now AA is incredibly strong. Bombers dont work anymore.), I am just terrified this game is not gonna fricking sell and Eugen is not gonna fricking exist in 12 months
I really want to like this game but it looks obvious to me they are screwing the pooch. Eugen's whole unique thing is having big scale maps, big scale combat, lots of cool units, and vaguely historical units (or at least inspired by IRL to keep it interesting).
But in Warno they seem to bizarrely be focusing on smaller maps, smaller unit counts, unit costs too high, and then we're just doing a smaller scale WGRD babysitting the superheavy and if it dies then its GG
Like, how do they expect this game to even be a niche sleeper hit or success at this rate
The Operations were insanely underwhelmingf, like the Black Horse one is just spawn 2 - literally 2 - Abrams and have them shoot at a weak trickle of BMP's. What the frick
Where the frick is the scale. The action. The cool factor. It's all wrong man I feel like I bet on a losing horse here
Someone help
The truth is that PACT is much weaker than NATO. It's a shame because you won't enjoy the game. ( political correctness for 36 euros - the Eugen system). PACT has inaccurate AT missile systems, it's practically a miracle if they hit anything. They don't stand a chance against the USA or Germany in open area. Tanks... that's a joke xD PACT tanks are so inaccurate that sometimes one Abrams can destroy three or four PACT tanks T80. Of course to make it look cool the PACT tanks got AT missiles, but those missiles with sub 50% accuracy will hit absolutely nothing. PACT has much less helicopters available compared to NATO. PACT helicopters are more inaccurate and expensive.
so in short: the PACT army is absolutely inaccurate and incapable. NATO vehicles destroy PACT vehicles like on a shooting range. (because NATO vehicles and NATO missile vehicles have around 60-65% accuracy, where PACT barely achieves 50% accuracy). PACT has poor air support because NATO has three to four times as many helicopters. PACT AT infantry + vehicles is woefully inaccurate (around 50% accuracy), so it's almost useless, but NATO AT infantry has around 60-65% accuracy (NATO AT infantry can stop almost an entire column of PACT tanks).
What it means: when you play against AI and want a balanced fair game, you have to set PACT's AI to HARD/VERY HARD and NATO's AI to EASY/MEDIUM to make the game balanced omg. loool
I'm a NATOgay because like you say I like my ATGMs to actually hit, but PACT units are cheaper, come in larger card sizes, and the t-80+ line is competitive with the NATO heavies
On the IFV front, the best NATO IFV is obviously the Bradley but it's fricking expensive, not as cost-effective as the BMP-2. Marders are pretty good too but otherwise I'd say that PACT gets better IFV spam which is the name of the game tbh. Yeah PACT ATGMs hit less and have less PEN than NATO, but you get way more of them
Moreover PACT has objectively the best AA - the KUB is completely broken and can cover the entire map lol, and I'd say PACT plane options are pretty competitive. I don't see why you say that NATO has better air support when there's not really a big difference in the ASF options and PACT gets lots of good bomber and AT plane options too.
PACT a great mix of helicopters (including lots of the AA helicopters) while NATO really only has the Apache and the Cobras, and then just meme units like the Gazelle Cannon
Infantry is such a mixed bag it's hard to say one side is overall better than the other, but PACT decks often have really good cost-effective infantry options. Motostrelki and Mot Schutzen are whatever but those OP anti-tank squads and Spetsnaz line are strong as hell
Top ranked players still consider 39th and 79th top-tier divisions. Overall I think the problem isn't PACT versus NATO so much as that it's that there aren't enough PACT divisions in the game lol. When the choice is between 39th / 79th (good divisions) and then East Germany as really the only other pick, it gets boring pretty quick
But I play lots of 3rd Armored so I cannot be trusted
Different playstyle, I recently had a pretty cool game playing as DDR tank division and absolutely BTFO'd a West German tank division + he was getting support from his allies Longbows and ayybraps, (which were the only reason I didn't steamroll into their spawn). Keep in mind DDR tanks are absolutely garbage compared to Leo2A4. However 3 stock T-72 will easily beat a Leo2A4 while costing the same amount. They depend on numbers to get close to the enemy, which means their guns do more damage and they're more likely to hit, thus negating the quality advantage. Cheap tank spam absolutely dominate forest fights aswell.
Player skill and APM will always be the deciding factor, but I think that the game itself is biased in favor of NATO.
Repairs are ridiculously fast, which negates the advantages of having more cards of less-well armoured tanks. The only tanks that can go toe-to-toe with NATOs best are extremely limited in availability. And to add insult to injury pretty there are more NATO decks with superheavies than without them. Having more tank cards is only effective if you are rushing, which really cheapens the experience in my opinion.
ATGM vehicles like the SHTURM and SPW Konkurs are even more useless than they are in WG.
The HE nerf hurts Pact more than it does NATO because of how artillery dependant the Red Army was and how important barrages were to their doctrine. atm artillery is only good for smoke and sniping weapons teams, witht the exception of the Uragan you can't trust it to reliably remove enemy infantry, especially from cover with how quickly they can zip from building to building. Suppression and stunning is practically just there for show because of how even the very best artillery has ridiculous dispersion and splash damage, meaning you will rarely if ever actually kill an entire squad with arty alone. Rocket artillery needs to be reworked from the ground up. Grads are neutered because their stupid long flight time and dispersion means they can only pepper , leaving 20 spread-out craters at random instead of actually killing anything. I can't image they playtested them beyond taking some screenshots for a TOOSER. Smerchs are also useless because of flight time and dispersion, by the time they land your enemy is already scooting away. You might get lucky and get a glancing hit on a tank or supply truck, but Eugen's obsession with making killing anything as tedious as possible means you rarely put them out of action. Top shelf cluster artillery NEEDS to be an instant delete button because of how easy it is to repair vehicles in this game.
Finally, despite people asking for Eugen to fix them since they released EE, helicopters are still unrealistic and fly in a way that negates their combat potential. The current heli movement where they get in range, stop, align and THEN fire off their rocket is not how Pact helicopters should fly. It makes perfect sense for a hovering missile platform like the Apache when it's launching Hellfire missiles at Toyotas halfway across Afghanistan, but a Hind flying over the Fulda Gap is performing the same role as a Tornado or A-10: fly low, fire rockets at everything that moves, circle around, fire everything still in the tube then deploy countermeasures and hope you make it back alive. It shouldn't be that hard to give them the same attack pattern as an Su-25, but instead they just eat stingers to the face and spin around.
The current ridiculous meta of NATO players parking their squads of Abrams and Leo 2A4s in open fields with some AA and a repair truck, knowing that they're going to be able to wipe out anything that comes their way and just drive their way out of any clusters really embodies the fundamental inferiority of Pact in the game. As it stands WARNO is a ridiculous game.
Players who want a truly good cold war wargame play flashpoint campaigns. WRD is unrealistic but it's a well designed and game. Warno is for kids who want pretty graphics.
They're probably too conscious of the criticism helicopters get. If helis are good in any way someone will spam them and hordes of new players will reeee about "helicopter are broken" and that "the game is a joke you need to fix this immediately!" so I think they just leave helicopters in a shitty state for this reason.
Planes also keep getting nerfed but I think it's the pro players reeeing about them because they want to micro tanks all day and get upset when someone reminds them this game has air units so now planes are shit too barring the very most meta ones like A-10, Su25 and dive-bombers.
>Planes also keep getting nerfed but I think it's the pro players reeeing about them
This is spot on. The small but extremely vocal Warno community who are in the top 50 ranked and post constantly in the WarYes and Eugen official Discord and are like Wormtongue in Eugen's ear have a vision for the game that is antithetical to an actually fun multiplayer experience.
Because they are such sweats and are so good, all they want is to maximize their personal skill expression, AKA buff everything they like to do and nerf everything that counters it.
What does this mean in reality? It means that they cry about good artillery and planes, and essentially want the game to boil down to superheavy and smoke micro 24/7 because that's what they can do to always win. They want small numbers of super expensive units that they can dunk on people with.
What would actually be good for the game? Warno would be better with larger maps, cheaper+more units, and lower time to kill / more lethal engagements (incl. planes and artillery). >It's a more fun spectacle >More units means less crippling to lose each one >Easier and more fun to do q-moving batches of units across a bigger map than superheavy smoke-and-reverse micro in one treeline for 10 minutes >More room to maneuver and hide means artillery can be good without being oppressive >More units on the field is an implicit nerf to bombers so bombers can be fun again
Yes, what I am basically describing is at least a step towards WGRD. WGRD isnt objectively better than Warno in every way, but in terms of 'scale' it is better, INCLUDING and especially for noobier players.
It sounds counter-intuitive but 'sending out infantry and tanks across a big map' is actually easier and more fun and rewarding for a noob than 'microing the shit out of 1 M1A2 and losing if it dies'
>They're probably too conscious of the criticism helis get.
This is true and I do feel for them because Heli spam is a real thing and it's a hard line to walk.
What normal casual players in these games want to do is have lots of cool units getting in big tank battles and big infantry city fights and calling in huge artillery barrages killing like 20 T-72's and a sick bomber that annihilates a town square. That's fun and it's cool and you can't get that anywhere else.
And it plays into the biggest strength that the WG/Warno series has. Namely, cool historical units semi-realistically modeled, big scale and zoom. That's the differentiator with this game, and they need to play INTO it NOT tamp it down.
Normal casual players do NOT have fun jumping between one of their only 5 infantry squads across the whole map to get off the satchel charge micro to kill the 1v1 infantry engagement in a forest and trying to keep them alive while reversing/smoking/popping out with a single tank to kill two T-72's (if he loses the tank its GG), and having artillery that does no damage + gets no kills, and planes that do half damage to a single BMP.
I am genuinely worried Eugen has lost the plot on Warno, don't realize why WGRD had a cross-over appeal (hint: it was Big Bombastic Fun), and are paradoxically killing the noob-and-casual-friendly-fun by 'trying' to make the game 'easier' or less 'punishing' by reducing scale, reducing TTK, and reducing unit numbers.
It is just made worse by the fact that the "PRO" players are encouraging this because they are so invested in winning in the current state they can't conceptualize what it would be like for a normal RTS player to sit down with this game. They can't imagine like, 3 normal guys booting up a 3v3 and wanting to do a big tank rush or something and laughing and having fun.
What normal casual players in these games want to do is have lots of cool units getting in big tank battles and big infantry city fights and calling in huge artillery barrages killing like 20 T-72's and a sick bomber that annihilates a town square. That's fun and it's cool and you can't get that anywhere else.
And it plays into the biggest strength that the WG/Warno series has. Namely, cool historical units semi-realistically modeled, big scale and zoom. That's the differentiator with this game, and they need to play INTO it NOT tamp it down.
Normal casual players do NOT have fun jumping between one of their only 5 infantry squads across the whole map to get off the satchel charge micro to kill the 1v1 infantry engagement in a forest and trying to keep them alive while reversing/smoking/popping out with a single tank to kill two T-72's (if he loses the tank its GG), and having artillery that does no damage + gets no kills, and planes that do half damage to a single BMP.
I am genuinely worried Eugen has lost the plot on Warno, don't realize why WGRD had a cross-over appeal (hint: it was Big Bombastic Fun), and are paradoxically killing the noob-and-casual-friendly-fun by 'trying' to make the game 'easier' or less 'punishing' by reducing scale, reducing TTK, and reducing unit numbers.
It is just made worse by the fact that the "PRO" players are encouraging this because they are so invested in winning in the current state they can't conceptualize what it would be like for a normal RTS player to sit down with this game. They can't imagine like, 3 normal guys booting up a 3v3 and wanting to do a big tank rush or something and laughing and having fun.
Thankfully though, Eugen can make this happen. It is a completely doable future vision for the game that they can steadily move towards. >All new maps are like 33-50% bigger. No need to get rid of the smaller ones, but going forward go for a bigger size. Something like a 20% bigger 4v4 Vertigo with more room to maneuver around the sides of the map as a 1v1 map size would be perfect. >Reduce unit prices by like 33-50% and increase card size commensurately >Revert to something like old artillery and bombers >Increase unit lethality generally, but particularly infantry vs infantry lethality (they are no fun to use right now) and as a balance change infantry vs. tanks in forests as well >Add more fun unit choices within divisions and of course in addition to new divisions (Without going full RD stupid prototype mode, more unit choices would be better as today divisional deckbuilding feels same-y)
And then do balance and polish around that. That should be the 'vision'. Big. Bombastic. Fun.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I already posted Too Much so I'll just cap this off. >What was the reason so many of us and so many people over the last decade had so much fun with WGRD, which is objectively Eugen's best selling and most successful game?
Big ass maps. The meme potential. Shit like the Reddit vs. Ganker 10v10 tournament with huge 50-tank-strong pushes across the top of the map. Gigantic artillery barrages. Killing 20 tanks with a m270 ATACMS and going OHHHHHHHHHH. Having the type of game where you and two of your friends, all of whom are bad at the game, can casually hop into a 3v3 and do meme strats with heli-drops behind enemy lines and oh god it didn't work they called in 20 Gepards and spamming T-34's and oh frick hahahaha oh man that was fun haha. >What stopped people from getting into WGRD?
Honestly, the number one thing was the completely ass controls for controlling that many units easily and lack of a good UI. It was really tough for people to even get used to fast-moving and unloading their units at match start and visualizing Recon and Line of Sight and even just getting through the Busan Pocket campaign. I know because I've tried to get people into the game and it really was a pain in the ass hurdle for them. They were like I dunno man.
The number two and three things were a merely OK single player and basically being scared of deck building / MP because it was so huge.
Eugen has already made huge improvements across these dimensions! The LoS tool and the Unload at Location and the unit order lines, etc., are a HUGE improvement. Army General will *hopefully* be really fun. Divisions simplify the deckbuilding.
Eugen has the raw material already to make this huge. They just need to EMBRACE. FUN.
That's it that's my piece. I'm feeling bad abt this right now because I'm worried Warno won't sell and then it will die and Eugen will die and we will never get peak WGRD back and there's no real game that fits into this space as well.
So IDK. send this to Eugen.
I completely agree that artillery in warno is fricked right now, it's a mess. On one hand non-mortar artillery is quite expensive, on the other hand it does too little damage. They need to pick a lane. Either its weaker and its cheaper or its more expensive and its more lethal.
The complicating factor IMO is that because the maps in Warno are so much smaller and so much more 'arena like' than WGRD, artillery has the potential to be really annoying and oppressive and spammy. In most of the 1v1 maps you literally *know* that there are about 3 forests that the opponent *will* have units in on any given map, and there's no real room to maneuver around them.
Because of that, artillery has to be simultaneously weak, expensive, and rare, which does not feel fun. Some howitzers are just not worth taking ever. But, get the M270 as 3rd Armored and even if each rocket feels individually too weak, you are just getting so much free value by just lobbing rockets into any of the spots you just know the opponent is (even without Recon)
Finally big important point, I think Eugen has made a mistake by going >Smaller Scale >Fewer Units >Less Lethal
Or at least they have gone too far in this direction. Compared to its current state, they need to introduce >Bigger Maps >Cheaper + more units >Higher lethality
Finally, despite people asking for Eugen to fix them since they released EE, helicopters are still unrealistic and fly in a way that negates their combat potential. The current heli movement where they get in range, stop, align and THEN fire off their rocket is not how Pact helicopters should fly. It makes perfect sense for a hovering missile platform like the Apache when it's launching Hellfire missiles at Toyotas halfway across Afghanistan, but a Hind flying over the Fulda Gap is performing the same role as a Tornado or A-10: fly low, fire rockets at everything that moves, circle around, fire everything still in the tube then deploy countermeasures and hope you make it back alive. It shouldn't be that hard to give them the same attack pattern as an Su-25, but instead they just eat stingers to the face and spin around.
The current ridiculous meta of NATO players parking their squads of Abrams and Leo 2A4s in open fields with some AA and a repair truck, knowing that they're going to be able to wipe out anything that comes their way and just drive their way out of any clusters really embodies the fundamental inferiority of Pact in the game. As it stands WARNO is a ridiculous game.
Also completely agree helicopters are moronic right now and lose LoS way too easily and then suicide fly way too close into targets and die. Unless you use them as a 'flying atgm team' (Apache) or as 'cheap suicide spam' (gazelle cannon) then you're gonna have a bad time outside of a few 'stars align' situations
Controlling fewer units is inherently easier anyway.
Common fallacy. Sometimes but not necessarily true. Fewer units means each individual unit is more important. That actually incentivizes / rewards 'sweat micro' type play where you micromanage the shit out of one frick-you strong superheavy, etc. I actually think as above the game has too much emphasis on very small unit count micro.
For this reason I like to either play on map sizes one step larger than devs recommend, or reduce income rates a bit. Gives a bit more room for manouver warfare.
>on the other hand it does too little damage
It can do decent damage, but the morale and shock affects are what you want it for. If you engage with your direct fire troops as the arty is hitting it can be a very one sided fight. Also I don't recognise what you said about helis at all. Rocket choppers especially are very useful and can put the kibosh on anything squishy and are excellent at harrassing anything tougher.
idk, you Red Dragon dorks all sound very bad at combined arms.
The truth is that PACT is much weaker than NATO. It's a shame because you won't enjoy the game. ( political correctness for 36 euros - the Eugen system). PACT has inaccurate AT missile systems, it's practically a miracle if they hit anything. They don't stand a chance against the USA or Germany in open area. Tanks... that's a joke xD PACT tanks are so inaccurate that sometimes one Abrams can destroy three or four PACT tanks T80. Of course to make it look cool the PACT tanks got AT missiles, but those missiles with sub 50% accuracy will hit absolutely nothing. PACT has much less helicopters available compared to NATO. PACT helicopters are more inaccurate and expensive.
so in short: the PACT army is absolutely inaccurate and incapable. NATO vehicles destroy PACT vehicles like on a shooting range. (because NATO vehicles and NATO missile vehicles have around 60-65% accuracy, where PACT barely achieves 50% accuracy). PACT has poor air support because NATO has three to four times as many helicopters. PACT AT infantry + vehicles is woefully inaccurate (around 50% accuracy), so it's almost useless, but NATO AT infantry has around 60-65% accuracy (NATO AT infantry can stop almost an entire column of PACT tanks).
What it means: when you play against AI and want a balanced fair game, you have to set PACT's AI to HARD/VERY HARD and NATO's AI to EASY/MEDIUM to make the game balanced omg. loool
Did you just admit you struggle against the AI? In public? In front of everyone here? How embarrassing.
I'm top 100 on the ranked 1v1
My comment on rocket helis are that their target acquisition / aligning / firing patterns are a known issue right now largely due to LoS issues. this is especially apparent in towns.
Rocket helis are of course good if you have clear LoS and no AA in the area for them to slowly and ploddingly acquire and fire. But they have bad movement target acquisition and firing. Their behavior with actually right-clicking a target is a problem too. Due to LoS, if they lose target, their behavior is to fly directly at the target (usually to right overhead) where they will be stunned and killed by small arms fire.
It's a known issue Eugen has said they are looking at.
Never said they aren't worth bringing just that it's better to put your helicopters at about their maximum range and let them sit and fire at what they can, especially in or around towns, rather than try and strafe or move them around much.
For this reason I like to either play on map sizes one step larger than devs recommend, or reduce income rates a bit. Gives a bit more room for manouver warfare.
It's kind of obvious that anyone capable of designing a good map walked out on Eugen. Every map from SD2 and onwards is just a bland meeting engagement where you squabble over the centre for 40 minutes.
>ATGM vehicles like the SHTURM and SPW Konkurs are even more useless than they are in WG.
I never understood why they seem so bent on keeping this the case. If they maybe could make it so there's a delay on when they're revealed after firing or give the units being fired at penalties to spotting/accuracy when attacked by previously invisible ATGM carrier.
Or just give them more range or something. It's just so counterintuitive that the designated ambush vehicle can't even really get one shot off in most cases because the enemy crosses the range advantage before the missile hits and just lightly taps the vehicle with their main cannon.
CMCW
I love how supply is handled and think wargame would be more fun if it was just CM on larger scale
i do not understand half of graviteams mechanics so i will refrain from recommending it despite graviteam being the closest concept, though bush war and chink-vatnik border conflict dlc is based and shorts pilled
warno looks promising, but it's early access though eugen has been pretty good about its last 2 games.
red dragon is alright and has a decent amount of people playing it, but the homosexualry is immense in many ways.
WARNO is much better than Red Dragon plus RD already has a dying playerbase. At the moment SD2 is much better but WARNO might be good after the current changes they are working on.
is WGRD actually dying? i thought it had the most stable playerbase of eugen games. is it due to warno slowly getting more content?
>is WGRD actually dying?
Obviously not.
warno is catching up (big spike with the latest update) but still consistently under at least for now. the post-update regression hasnt been as bad as i would have guessed.
When I play in the evenings usually 500-600 people are on according to the in-game chart, when Oudinot game out it was like 1400.
IMO good shot Warno eclipses current WGRD consistently after it leaves early access and gets a 1.0 full release
It doesnt even count the epicgames owner, Im one of em. Got wargame for free and bought all the DLCs when I got addicted
it was free on epic? goddamint
bro its like thirty doolars lol get a job lol like just buy it for money LOL dude just get income adn then spend it on things you want LOL
no
adjusting for inflation it's now more like $50
Are wages adjusted for inflation?
>WARNO releases...
>Barely catching up to a game released 9 years ago
Game is fricking DOA lmao. Can't wait to hear WARNO gays cope as to why it's can't even match red dragon, never mind beat it.
You're delusional friend. Please take your medication.
I'm honestly surprised anyone is still playing it at all but I'm sure glad the /k/incels are sticking with that dogshit.
WGRD is deep and very enjoyable if you have any idea how to play RTT games. Besides, there is no alternative to it.
It's objectivelly the worse of the recent Eugen games, Stell Division 2 is a much better game than it.
WRD is the last game that was made when Eugen still had competent developers. After that it was a downward spiral of one shit game after another. SD2 is garbage with unbalanced maps, unbalanced cashgrab divisions, absolutely broken combined arms, and tons of shitty game mechanics to top it off. Whatever miniscule playerbase still remains in this game is 70% wehraboo redditards and 30% scrubs who got filtered by WRD.
yeah, I really tried to like SD2. The campaign seems like my ideal game. I love that strategic to tactical transition. But for the love of God I cant enjoy it at all, and I dont know why. It just feels OFF
Same here - I think it’s because every battle feels samey- you use the same tactics every time for a given side
>Shit Division
>Better than anything
Why yes I love having a top tier unit routed by an auto cannon that can't actually pen it
Well, if you let an autocannon unit to get close enough to a heavy, then you deserve to get raped.
>mfw i have 6 flak 88' in my deck and player like you are the reason why i still play this.
>autocannon
>flak 88
this is why Shit Division is shit, the playerbase is as dumb as a sack of shit.
but rd is like that too
Steel division is a vastly different game to RD, it's not really comparable
Don't respond to the spammer who ruins every single thread about WG with his autism.
And on Christmas no less. Sad!
>/k/
>incels
you are crazy, being an incel would imply heterosexuality.... and we all know that post2022 /k/ are just nu-males, gays, furries and trannies
Back when this God damned website had some culture.
met mcnig at a meet once he was pretty cool
I miss old /k/ so much
it was one of my favorite boards, slow and comfy, great humor and board culture
now its one of the worst boards on this site
Why are people who very obviously never browse /k/ complaining about /k/?
Is it because they clown on russians?
Absolutely not and yes it does have the most stable playerbase it's just a couple of SD trannies who seethe about it
Don't go with with the expectation that they are realistic or proper wargames. At best they're the spiritual successor of WiC. Get WARNO since RD is dying and full of absolute cancer and minmax cheese
Red Dragon, but if you're going to helo rush, just skip straight to begging for e-wiener and don't bother playing.
as i said, WGRD has a lot of immense homosexualry, and this is a prime example.
Red Dragon if you can only get one, it's much better value for money. Better multiplayer, more players, currently the only game with single player (though it's pretty meh, entertaining enough but the AI is dogshit and the scenarios aren't really worth playing more than once or twice), much better UI and the graphics aren't that much worse for a game made ten years ago.
WARNO, for all its rough edges, will probably end up being a better game for single player. SD2's Army General mode is miles above ALB and RD's scenarios, which are very simplistic and easy to game. Their latest dev diary says they're actually trying to improve their AI and give players a better, more satisfying singleplayer experience so you feel that you're going up against a human who wants to win the game instead of a robot that cares less about area control or combined arms and more about tallying up "points" from killing your shit. Whether they pull it off is another story, but honestly it's refreshing to see Eugen actually admit their games have problems and that they want to fix them instead of just being snobby Frenchmen and retreating between thirty layers of "well ACSHULLY" bullshit. You have to balance this out against the terrible UI, balance issues they're still struggling to fix, the cashgrab division system, but if they can pull it off it will eclipse Wargame.
One area I'm not enthusiastic about is their map design. Ever since SD they've forgotten how to make maps that offer more tactical opportunities than fighting over the centre of the map for 30 minutes. ALB's maps were honestly rather bland and similar, so maybe it's just a European thing. I prefer the maps in RD and Regiments, with the caveats that the latter has hideously slow movement speed and expects you to defend the entire map with a fraction of the units your enemy can call in.
After playing for a couple of hours, the biggest issue with the game is the map design.
I've always had the same issue
>but the AI is dogshit
That's half the fun, trying to speedrun a campaign and only losing units because you literally ran out of ammunition
Wargame red dragon its not even a contest
Neither. You have to wait until a game like combat mission black sea is made with an actual decent budget
this. when the frick is this happening? now is the perfect time, everybody wants to simulate obliterating russians
Actual sim games are a very niche market so nobody wants to pour money into that kinda thing.
Are you guys me? I've been waiting an eternity for a modernized Combat Mission-like game.
I'd prefer WW2 or sci-fi setting though.
Both are trash, buy Airland Battle
Series peaked right there. RD killed the cold war spirit by adding all the sci-fi unicorns to push DLC sales, or circlejerk France because of course every modern military game must be biased towards the country it was developed in.
Plinking CVs and Buratinos with the Dutch tactical missile feels so good. Might be habit forming in an otherwise mediocre deck.
>french
>biased
I don't know if it's just me but FRA&EC players have the lowest braincell counts only second to Israeli airborne decks. It's different each time, sometimes they leave a vital town ungarrisoned at round start and waste hundreds of points of infantry pushing it, other times they drive their mortars into an open field within tank range, and one time a guy just snuck his Mirage right on top of our air spawn corridor and got shot down by a pole Mig-21.
Airland Battle is the awkward middle child of the series and shouldn't be recommended at all now that the multiplayer's dead. EE has more replayability.
thou I'm not fan of battle games, but I've watched a fren played red dragon, i wont call it a trash tbh!
Car rasing games have been my favorites
Feels so comfy with car racing games and anything in-car entertainment, will be adding pixel ripped 1995: on the road to my game list.
God I miss that game.
I got this one on sale years ago, but I never got into it because I'm too brainlet to figure out what units to build, plus I've never been good at RTS's to begin with (played Starcraft 1 back in the day but was always a glue eater at it)
I wish eugene would have just stopped making strategy games after alb and give us mod tools
the game would have stayed at 1000 players till today
why do you like ALB compared to RD?
>better map design
>more maps
>siege gamemode
>actual game balance
>no coalition decks
>era bonus is genuinely useful
>1 point transports
>33 deck points
>only 3 unit slots for downside
>better ai
>ai have decent default decks
Overall I feel like it's the better game, Red Dragon is fun and has some fun factions, but Airland Battle was always the better game
I honestly preferred European Escalation, both the solo and MP. Artillery was better (saturation that force you to leave an area or take damage over time), larger map that allowed for gap in your opponent defense and needed actual recon instead of chokepoint cluster fest they seem to prefer now. I even liked the unlocking system for deck that let you learn your unit instead of drowning under tons of them, and identify area where your deck is lacking to buy new unit their.
>/25/22(Sun)02:44:27 No.1292192
>2.36 MB JPG
>Should I get Warno or Wargame Red Dragon?
Neither.
Get Regiments.
Regiments is not an alternative to WRD and WARNO. You may as well recommend C&C Generals.
Play red alert
Its also a cold war gone hot game
game still fresh so no Multiplayer for a while
Never ever, actually. Which is shame, because I like it a lot
Not autistic enough
Regiments is autistic in weird ways. Each Regiment is actually researched and is composed of what units it actually had at the time and what reinforcements would have been allocated to it, but there's no formations. Each and every unit has it's own pedia entry with a cool little excerpt from in-universe interviews and books, but there's no air to air combat. There are SAM's though.
Casualties are calculated, KIA, WIA and Missing are displayed after each battle with calculations based on vehicle survivability and Infantry training, but there's no option to make a custom regiment. There will be Custom operations soon though, which will be nice.
so far they're planning to add baguettes, Czechs abd britbongs
They just added 3 British regiments and company sized formations. It's pretty fun to watch a company of T-55's suicide charge a platoon of Challengers.
Fricks sake! Why have I just seen this? I have more games than time to play as it is.
It would be even better if Regiment's dogshit AI didn't cheat as hard
Man regiments turned out to be seriously terrible. Regret buying it.
All these Warno/Wargame/Steel Division games are far too arcadey for me.
I wish there was something with the depth/realism of Combat Mission but more modern and had team gameplay capability.
so far we have to wait for Broken Arrow and Regiments
These don't look much different from the other titles I listed to be honest. Again, too arcadey. I want more focus on depth like it exists in Combat Mission.
i just want a truly modernized Steel Panthers: Main Battle Tank
armored brigade tbh
how the frick do I have fun in this game? It feels like everything you do is hunt for a place where you can actually see shit
The singleplayer campaign will be shit because they never have enough map variety.
theyll add modding and mapmaking support for sure this time. they wont lie again.
what was the point of adding naval stuff in red dragon
How do I git gud at the Wargame series? I used to be good at World In Conflict but im terrible at the Wargame series, I never have enough units to cover more than one or two places, and stuff has a tendency to get blown up while im busy micromanaging elsewhere.
https://honhonhonhon.wordpress.com/how-to-get-started-with-wargame/
and lots of practice
Beyond the basics like using recon, understanding LoS, managing your tanks well, cuing orders to move arty after firing, I think the real difference between champ and chump is deck building and making sure you have a balance of cheap units for map control and stronger units that you can use to push your advance. Decks like Israel are OP precisely because they're so cost effective with great infantry, the Zelda transport, cost effective tanks and underpriced air. If you're struggling, I would suggest building something like mechanised Commonwealth or Warsaw Pact.
Red Dragon,it has more playable base nations and it's cheaper. Eugen went to shit after Red Dragon, I stopped buying there games because of the DLC policy.
Same
I feel like every time I try to get back into WARNO I find something else moronic about it
>AI still can blatantly target anything it feels like regardless of the fact it has zero recon
>>The devs insist this isn't the case so it'll never be fixed
>Engineer tanks suddenly can't target light tanks/APCs because reasons
>>Even though they skullfrick said targets if you manually fire it
OP if you haven't paid already then get Wargame Airland Battle if you don't already. It has more maps and game modes than Red Dragon and better AI. All the expansions are free and it's $4 right now. The main drawbacks are slightly less base game factions (China, Japan, Canada, + 2 Koreas), and slightly less units for existing factions. Though honestly most of the new units are bloat, and the new factions aren't that great either, except for China. Airland Battle also generally has better balance. As for multiplayer bases, all Eugen games have smaller player bases anyways, and a large part of RD's player base only plays against bots or just chats all day
Red Dragon has ~1000 players at peak hours, WARNO usually only gets to 300.
ALB will have 8 people playing max.
ALB has an average of 30-40 players depending on the month, and a peak of about 100. While not much, we are talking about games with small player bases anyways. Another issue though is that all the data counts single player and the chat rooms. I know of at least 20 players in the English speaking chat room in RD that just chat all day. I don't really think that Wargame is a good series for multiplayer due to the low player counts
For me it's Chinese Motorized
WG:RD is actually fun if you don't sweat over every decision, just accept losses when they happen. I just say "Eh, looks fine, let's smoke it and go for a push, what's the worst that could happen?"
You perform better regardless of actual strategy if you act quickly and energetically. Sure I may burn through stacks of poor conscripts and draftees like it's napalm (napalm planes and arty actually suck in my experience, and flame infantry are only marginally useful at best) but at the end of the day if I can say I went even then it's a good day. Also helo rushers are gay, everything else is a fair, counterable tactic (even bkan spam, as much as I dislike you scandi support players)
>napalm planes and arty actually suck
They are really good anon. Napalm arty is useful for taking out a town, infantry pretty much get fricked by it, great for when you know the enemy dug in with inf, just blast them with this a minute or 2 before you launch an assault. Napalm planes are great for stealth bombing the enemy spawn points, easily panic cheaper units like infantry or supply units. It's also great at creating a buffer when your opponent charges you, the moral debuff can make the difference too
>flame infantry are only marginally useful
They are really fricking good anon, once had some flamers inside a town behind enemy lines, their tanks just kept getting in range and wiped out. Plus they are insane at hunting other infantry units inside of forests
>helo rushers are gay, everything else is a fair
I agree that helorushgays deserve the rope, but you can counter them by leaving a few cheap units behind to defend your spawn zone. I usually leave 1-2 aa guns and 2-3 light tanks and any surplus transports with guns get placed back there too. Just don't use aa missiles because infantry can easily take them out
Yeah napalm can be nice but looking at how expensive it is in air/arty form compared to normal munitions that could do much more damage, that just makes flame infantry more viable because they are cheaper. I personally prefer using mortars to panic enemies, especially in towns, before engaging them.
In regards to the AA, yes, I swear by the 20pt MANPAD in every deck, the issue is with "roundstart 2000 points of only helos and planes" rushed that cannot be countered unless you had the precognition to buy 1000 points of AA yourself
I don't think they're over priced. I think that napalm planes are really cheap, 35pts for a bomber that has the potential to punch like a 70pt bomber is really good. The artillery is imo cheaper too, just because you only need one since it's rockets, versus needing 2-4 for the low end or one massive expensive for the high end regular artillery guns. Mortars are good too but be careful because sometimes people place forward scouts/ambushes that can take them out, or they'll call in the big guns
You don't really need that much AA to counter a helorush though. Just use a bunch of units that can counter infantry, since that's all they'll be dropping. You can usually pull back some of your units to deal with it, and once you beat the rush, you'll basically win the match if it's 1v1. 2v2 is even easier to counter, unless both players are rushing together. And 3v3, 4v4, 10v10 are all unlikely to have that kind of cooperation, and if they do then you were probably doomed from the start. Plus more players equates to more aa at base
>since that's all they'll be dropping
A helorush doesn't drop anything. Your idea of what a helorush is, is wrong.
Do people not mix mobile AA into their initial comp? I always bring at the least some MANPADs in a truck which will pay their cost many times if they encounter choppers.
The way helo rushes work, you can literally spend 800pt out of the initial 1000pt on AA and still die to a helo rush. To counter a helo rush, you need lots of cheap units that shoot up (preferably with autocannons rather than missiles) AND you need a second CV. An example of a perfect anti helo rush unit is the 20pt NK Iglabus. Shit like Crotales and Tunguskas is a waste of points. If your deck isn't geared to counter helo rushes, and the rusher is somewhat competent, you just autolose by default.
I got to BrG doing helo rushes in three weeks (91% WR) before the wipe, and I'm a Maj at best when I play normally. I wasn't even trying to change my nickname. This strat is actually broken.
I just use Gun trucks like the Norwegian 20mm or the Warpact ones and defend my vehicles with them, back them up with some manpad infantry and maybe 2-4 decent cheap Gun AA like a Sopel, maybe even helo killer missiles like the Germ OSA.
Warno is just the better game. Better UI and graphics. The controls in red Dragon are weird.
WARNO was DOA. It hasn't even been a full year and its difficult to find games.
>WARNO
>Better UI
I laughed.
its difficult to find games in sd2 and wrrd because the community has autistically split up over the games. I do prefer warno though, honestly.
WG autist here.
WARNO isn't as deep and interesting as RD... at least not yet.
It depends on how far they're going to take this early access and how much they're willing to experiment.
Although things are generally going the right direction it feels like they're re-learning mistakes they made during ALB and RD and retreading old ground which shouldn't be necessary and is wasting a lot of time IMO. That makes it quite clear that it's not the same people who worked on those games...That means they copy some design decisions slavishly from RD without knowing which ideas were good and which ideas were bad. I think they honestly need to work on it another year at this pace, 6 months at minimum.
But the division system as is will never be as interesting as WG deck system.
"Mid tier" units are generally the way to go as opposed to few expensive ones, but you need to know which units are actually cost effective. The basic M1 Abrams is basically your gold standard in terms of price/performance. If you see something heavier that you can't fight with an M1 Abrams, throw a plane or helicopter at it.
Cheap units are usually intentionally a bit cost-uneffective (reason cited by devs being performance concerns in 10v10) while expensive units theoretically being the most cost effective (nothing can beat a top tier tank on the ground) come in too little availability and are too juicy targets to actually cover a lot of ground.
It's interesting to see they're trying new things and reworking combat entirely this late in the game. For a long time I had lost all hope in Eugen being anything more than a bunch of scummy Frenchmen who only made teasers for DLC Division packs.
>That makes it quite clear that it's not the same people who worked on those games...
That's not necessarily bad, they were absolutely insufferable when it came to communicating with the fanbase and sometimes it impacted the game, especially that one arrogant c**t madmatt or whatever his handle was. Are they still throwing b***hfits when people point out inaccuracies or errors?
lol I remember when WARNO first came out and flopped hard. Madmatt seethed in the WGRD world chat for hoouuurrrsss.
source?
> But the division system as is will never be as interesting as WG deck system.
Couldn't agree more.
I've played a little SD but the division system seems like a very noob friendly game-mechanic in comparison to the deck system. With a narrower selection of units available off the bat it leaves little in the way for tactics responding to enemy units. One of the skills you develop playing with the deck system - where all your units available to you at the start of the match - is appropriately predicting and responding to varying enemy units given your situation. I remember loads of times wasting shit loads of points trying to kill a super-heavy when I could have just waited for them to push and side pen them.
I'm this guy
and although I recommended Warno I basically agree with everything you said. What gives me hope is that Eugen seems very willing to try new things or re-tool mechanics. That plus the QOL changes mostly inspired from the Steel Division series gives me hope it will ultimately be the better game once the content is there and once they've made ~6-12 months more of feature and mechanics improvements. The latest Warno dev diaries preview some pretty major and bold changes IMO, and I think the Army General mode may be really, really cool.
This is 100% true, the division system inherently makes peoples' decks more 'homogenous' in terms of the mix and types of units they bring, but as Warno has continued it has gotten much better - they've been adding new units to older divisions and it is finally getting to a place where there are both some interesting choices in deck building and interesting differences in how the 'types' of divisions play, especially with the forward deploy mechanic (Armored / Mechanized / Airborne).
Overall, I actually honestly think the Division system may be both less interesting (and meme-y) for obvious reasons, but overall better for the quality of the MP game, so long as they ensure meaningful differneces both between and within divisions.
Seconding this
, but from my experience the two absolutely most important mechanics you need to get your head around are Line of Sight and Cover (Forests, buildings). This game really boils down to microing units in and out of forests, getting line of sight, taking the shot, and then breaking their line of sight. It's the most important unique 'fundamental' to the Eugen RTS games.
>Overall, I actually honestly think the Division system may be both less interesting (and meme-y) for obvious reasons, but overall better for the quality of the MP game, so long as they ensure meaningful differences both between and within divisions.
All well in good in theory, but when you actually play multiplayer there is no meaningful distinction between divisions and deckbuilding in practice. The vast majority of people in WGRD play Unspec or well-known meta decks. In SD2, you can join a lobby and find the exact same thing, the only difference is that they're playing the meta divisions rather than Eurocorp Moto or USSR unspec. I have to admit that WARNO is rather decently balanced at the moment, but I think it's inevitable that it will end up in the same place, with multiplayer ruled by a few powerful meta divisions that you are essentially forced to play if you want to have a chance at winning, because the limitations build into the division system are impossible to overcome. 7th Panzer is in this spot right now, it's a dud pick and the playerbase is competitive enough that nobody wants to shoot themselves in the foot by picking it. There isn't a single nation in RD that is unplayable if you build the deck right, but SD2 has dozens of fluff Divisions nobody actually plays.
Divisions are in my opinion utterly indefensible instead of changing the way you play multiplayer or adding more variety to the game, they just take away players' freedom to make the deck that they want to play. It's just an excuse to churn out DLC.
Balancing diverse nations/coalitions/divisions is a very difficult task. Considering that, WRD is surprisingly well balanced. The number of meta decks is rather large, off the top of my head all of these work very well in high-level 1v1:
- blue mech
- red mech
- usa unspec
- entente unspec and mech
- ussr unspec
- finpol unspec (still very strong even after the nerf, used to be actual s-tier)
- norad unspec
- EB unspec and mech (bmp-1 spam with the mech spec is actually insane)
- scandi unspec
Between all that I think blue mech, usa unspec, entente mech and ussr are the strongest, but because the overall skill level of active 1v1 players is not THAT high compared to popular RTS games like Starcraft, you can get away with playing lower tier decks.
You also see a lot of variety in how various players build these decks. I don't own WARNO, but in SD2 variety between divisions is miniscule, at least if you want to be competitive.
Moto decks in 1v1 are generally weak in my opinion, it's very risky to play them. It's much better to build an unspec deck that has a strong moto opener and then play off of it.
>Eurocorp Moto
Eurocorps is actually not that strong in the current meta, neither unspec nor moto. Not even because of the nerfs, it's just way too figured out.
Also because WRD is actually alive you don't just have people playing 1v1s. Tacticals are fun as frick and regular 10v10 though usually a crap shoot can give you a great game once every 4 matches.
what do you mean by tacticals? I thought that was 1v1?
Tactical is a 10v10 game on a 1v1 or 2v2 map with something between 1000-2000 points per team
The point is that you have about ~200 points per player so they have to specialize. So you end up with the arty guy, the asf guy, the tank guy and so on and so forth.
>All well in good in theory, but when you actually play multiplayer there is no meaningful distinction between divisions and deckbuilding in practice. The vast majority of people in WGRD play Unspec or well-known meta decks. In SD2, you can join a lobby and find the exact same thing, the only difference is that they're playing the meta divisions rather than Eurocorp Moto or USSR unspec.
I think this is very true although when it comes to:
>with multiplayer ruled by a few powerful meta divisions that you are essentially forced to play if you want to have a chance at winning
>There isn't a single nation in RD that is unplayable if you build the deck right,
I think some of what makes WRD really great is that there aren't just a few powerful meta divisions, there are quite a number of them and the coalitions in game have at least some viability or feel close enough to viable that you can for hours on end think up ways to make it work and it's interesting to play even if you lose. Some fun 'near-viable' but not necessarily meta decks:
'85 BLUFOR marines, US marines, RD mechanized, Scandi-mech, etc. The only standout blatantly OP faction is Yugoslavia.
The division system just needs that extra spice which gives you customizability, and while it doesn't need to be a copy of the RD deck system, there's been plenty of good suggestions on the discord. "Attachments" would perfectly fit the theme of divisions.
Air units are usually "attached" to divisions ad-hoc rather than being permanent parts of them. It'd be interesting if you had options of taking a limited number of ad-hoc attachments as a bonus to your division to expand your options. Pic related, lets say by attaching the 4450th tactical group you'd take small activation point penalty, but get F117 and A-7 Corsair options in your deck.
>7th Panzer is in this spot right now
Anon, just embrace UAZ SPG9 as your lord and savior.
Nobody's talking about it, but the Division system means you are paying for the slow implantation of content that was either in the game at launch in RD or you're now allowed to do whatever you want with. Eugen's DLC model is absolute cancer, you pay more for less content and less choice.
Red Dragon has so much content because it was third in a series of 3 games worth of units you gay
Maybe SD was different. ALB at launch had plenty of units but factions weren't fleshed out. That got fleshed out over time with free updates. Then when RD came out those factions weren't exactly fleshed out but even the legacy factions got free updates due to popular demand and in the end RD just ended up as a massive game. It's kind of crazy to me how Eugen abandoned such a 'behemoth'.
Basically, RD and ALB didn't have everything at launch, but they added a lot for free.
I do worry if the division system is a way of just selling what would be "decks" in RD though. Because lets say you add another US armored division, what's it going to be? Oh it's gonna have an abrams it's gonna have riflemen it's gonna have most of what already exists and maybe they'll throw in 1-2 new units or add something from Germany that you don't get in the other division.
Lol they abandoned Red Dragon for the steaming pile of shit that is Act of Aggression and then immediately came scurrying back to make WGRD dlc
>7th Panzer is in this spot right now
Actually 7 Panzer is considered quite strong because (1) of all the strong price-to-performance t-72's, (2) mot-schutzen spam, and (3) UAZ SPG9 spam
The TL;DR of my opinion is that the Wargame deck building system is more fun and more cool but ultimately IRL it boils down to 10-20 meta/viable decks with a lot of deck copying, and unfortunately as well a lot of use of one-off meme units and cheese.
The division system is less fun because its more restrictive but at least as of now all the divisions are relatively balanced between each other, with meaningful differences between them, and there are some (but IMO not enough) cool trade-off decisions within the divisions as well.
I think long-term as long as their division design stays good and they keep adding to it, what will be better than the deck system (or at least as good, in a different way) is that the divisions will produce well-balanced decks that also have unique strengths / weaknesses inherent to the division in a balanced but unique way. I also think it's just more straightforward for new players tbh.
>The division system just needs that extra spice which gives you customizability, and while it doesn't need to be a copy of the RD deck system, there's been plenty of good suggestions on the discord. "Attachments" would perfectly fit the theme of divisions.
I really like this idea, it would be the best of both worlds. not sure exactly how it would work - maybe 3 max 'attachment' slots and filling any one would cost a high point value (3 points?), which is expensive but potentially very potent. Say 3rd armored getting a card of SAS, to add a lot of 'spice' to the division and add a limited but potent capability or two.
If there is one thing I dont like about the division system right now its how 'same-y' many of the USSR divisions feel because, just like IRL, its T-XX and BMP-spam as far as the eye can see
>I really like this idea, it would be the best of both worlds. not sure exactly how it would work - maybe 3 max 'attachment' slots and filling any one would cost a high point value (3 points?), which is expensive but potentially very potent. Say 3rd armored getting a card of SAS, to add a lot of 'spice' to the division and add a limited but potent capability or two.
Yes exactly. The possibilities open up alot with this sort of system. Say you could attach an elite heavy tank regiment giving you just a little bit of armored capability in an otherwise infantry focused deck, or maybe you'd want some elite artillery, or a couple of F-14 Tomcats for air cover in a usually air weak division.
I think the prevalence of it should depend on the division. More complete divisions should probably only be able to take 1 attachment while less complete or weaker divisions could take 2-3.
>W RD is too meta
>Let's make it soo people can add Meta units to the division system willy nilly
You Black folk have brain damage
>Let's make it soo people can add Meta units to the division system willy nilly
Yes. Meme units are fun and so is RD.
There's a balance to be had. Too many overpowered units is bad, but everybody mashing together cookie-cutter decks is also bad.
>Try this game series after reading reviews
>Be utter and complete shit at them
>Still have lots of fun
Whoa, so this is what playing good games feels like.
>Whoa, so this is what playing good games feels like.
Games are fun and it eased me off any stress
FWIW I tried to get into WG:RD several times and it never "clicked"
Then I played a bit of Regiments which seemed easier to grasp
Then went back to try RD a couple weeks ago and ended up playing for like 10 hours straight cause it finally "clicked"
That might be my advice, go play Regiments for a bit because that feels like Wargame-lite a bit
Are there ways to make RD's singleplayer less shit? I just wanna dick around on occasion with all kinds of funky Cold War units, but the dogshit AI refuse to let me have any fun.
Download a cheat engine and give yourself more starting points. Surprisingly fun when you can actually have huge armies on the field at once.
Alright. Have any recommendations?
Warno is weird
red Dragon is better
>as far as i've played both games
I've put 100 hours into RD singleplayer. I want to join multiplayer but I'm nervous from all the horror stories, and there aren't many games open anyway.
Last time I tried multiplayer, it was all extremely-low-point 10v10 conquest matches on 1v1 maps.
If you are worried about sweatlords, play those low point 10vs10 meme games
It's the designated casual mode of the series basically, nobody gives a frick how you do, you just send a few shiny tanks in the general direction of the enemy and collect those juicy point popups.
And if any mentally ill troony tries to give you shit, you laugh at xir for acting like 10vs10 is a serious game mode.
I joined a couple, everybody else teamswitched to blue, 1/3rd of my team didn't build any units and it was just 20 minutes of feeling totally impotent as we got slowly rolled back.
Sounds like 10vs10, yep.
Try 1vs1 if you want a proper match, regular team games are mouthbreather sperg territory.
WARNO is for b***h homosexuals who love supporting Nu-Eugen which sucks Black person dick and donates to rapefugee campaigns. The company that made Red Dragon does not exist anymore, almost all the people who made red dragon no longer work there.
I will try to give an unbiased and fair answer as someone for whom RTS is their favorite genre and someone who has a soft spot in their heart for Eugen titles. I have about 200 hours in Warno and about 700 hours in WG:RD.
Wargame Red Dragon is the more popular, but much older title.
It has a larger playerbase for now, but this will almost certainly dwindle over time. WGRD is receiving no more dev support and no more content.
The game is beloved for its much 'looser' deck building resulting in many fun and joyful meme possibilities.
However, this also means that the game has a megasweaty MP community and you will certainly be raped by people using obscure memeunits and obscure mechanics.
As a result of being older and the 3rd in a series, it has loads of content (# of countries, units, etc.).
However, because it is older it also has some very dated mechanics and lacks many Quality of Life improvements they have made since. The net of this is that to be good at WGRD you need high game knowledge and high mechanics skill (e.g. knowing how Line of Sight works and how to micro loading / unloading units, microing tank units, etc.)
Warno is the spiritual successor to WGRD currently in Early Access.
Big picture design-wise, it is 80% the same game, with a 'refresh' mentality. This means rebuilding many of the units and nations from the ground-up, better graphics, and lots of mechanical improvements that are IMO irreplaceable now (esp. LoS tool and order queueing at match start.)
The 20% that is different is: (1) Deck building is restricted to 'divisions' now, which means your choices in deck building are much more limited, but also more 'balanced' for MP' and easier for new players to get into (2) The 'scale' and 'speed' of the maps and matches has been slightly reduced and increased, respectively. The net of this is Warno is a bit 'faster' / 'arcade-y' / 'action-packed' than WGRD (Units travel and get into combat faster on smaller maps).
Warno has much improved AI and if Eugen is honest in their Dev Diaries, the Single Player experience will be much more robust than in WGRD via the Army General mode, which is a game mode that plays kinda like Total War with a strategic layer leading into tactical battles
Warno is also being actively developed and is going to be the future of the franchise, for better or worse.
So what's my take. My take is get Warno but honestly it comes with some risk. WGRD is buying into a dead-end game. Its not getting any more support and the community will dwindle over time. Moreover most of the people still playing are diehards which will make it hard for new players.
Warno has NOT been a smash success and has small player numbers right now. It can be hard to find an MP game at certain times of day. But I honestly like the overall direction they are going with Warno. The division system isn't as bad as people are saying for lots of reasons which I can elaborate on if you want, but suffice to say it works, the divisions are getting larger with each patch, and I actually like the Airborne / Mechanized / Tank division trichotomy they have built.
The game has improved a lot in Early Access and Eugen seems actually willing to make major improvements to the core mechanics and are constantly rebalancing and making mechanics improvements. So I would say "so far so good" on my Early Access purchase.
So I say buy Warno and for the love of god pray that it builds momentum, gets a healthy influx of new players on full release, and continues this type of game into the 2020's.
If Warno fails my honest impression is Eugen is fricked and the studio will close. My understanding is that the Steel Division franchise was a flop and after the Eugen labor dispute the company hemmoraged staff and they are holding on for dear life.
So buy Warno and play. It's very fun.
Not OP, but I am interested in what you like about the division system. Having dicked around with RD occasionally, half the fun for me is the wide world of potential units you can pick, even if some, or most, of them aren't effective.
i dont think steel division 2 was a flop, but sdn44 was probably close to break even in eitherdirection.
My friends and I play SD2 and got into WGRD when it was on sale in late 2020.
I think that the sweaty and competitive mp players are a very vocal minority. A lot of people play singleplayer or co-op vs AI in these games, but dont go on 4ch or plebbit to talk about it because they're casual.
By focusing more on singleplayer in WARNO at the cost of multiplayer, eugenic is hopefully going to scoop up more customers.
90% of my time in SD2 is singleplayer and then watching replays. I really hope they flesh out the WARNO SP experience because im tired of the vocal minority of competitive players taking up the devs attention with focus on meta and balance vs improving AI, more cool singleplayer modes and content, general QOL like a UI refresh etc.
It is a well known fact that the majority of people who play even PC RTS games primarily or solely play single player.
Damn, the video made me wish those French homosexuals would make their moddable. Or at least give us the damn map editor. Instead, they keep shitting out those useless division DLCs.
Map editor was promised, but if Eugentists aren't morons they will improve their mod tools, because without meme mods their game will never be popular. You can't get decent online by posting copypaste info from wikipedia in your patchnotes.
the youtuber who made this video has the voice of everything wrong today.
its like audio almond milk.
this is the absolute worst deck I've ever made
>ITOW
>MBT 70
>Kiowa
>Aardvark
>Assault Engineers
Unironically better than 60% of all decs people use in Tacticals
I never could really get into that franchise with it's deck system. Something about it just puts me off.
That and I'm absolutely fricking horrible at the games, but that's really more of a tangential aside.
>All that shitty missile tanks that will be slaughtered by some conscripted Pole or East G*man with RPG-7...
Tank crew's must have done something terrible to you, anon
>no naval units
No wonder it's cursed
Hell yeah Starships and Sheridans are my shit. It's a shame the M81 Gun/Launcher was such a pile of shit.
they're absolute shit in game too, I suppose they could be decent on the defensive if you have proper depth to let them actually use their shitty missiles and give them the full week they need to aim their main gun.
The CEV is quickly becoming one of my favorite pattons though, it can be a really nasty surprise to enemy infantry is placed in a town along with riflemen
That's a lot of M60s?
Do you hate them?
Because they are going to get slaughtered
Based M60 chad
Those aren't M60s, those are Starships. The M60A2 was disowned and disinherited, and the family would prefer you respect their decision and thus not refer to it as part of them.
Get both, WRD gets dirt cheap during sales.
red dragon wont launch on my pc anyone know a fix? using windows 11 by the way nvidia graphics card and gaming laptop
ask eugen for support
>gaming laptop
oxymoron
You're a moron.
Post your MVPs
nice ai match
Thank you.
The replay was rather peculiar; I'd just dicked around with air units which helped my AI compatriot handily win the thing. Yet when I watched the replay, most of my units never spawned, and the enemy AI won. Guess the computer was mad at getting beaten.
Big WARNO update just came out, it’s pretty hype.
What're the highlights?
Well they added amphibious vehicles...
Did they add amphibious vics or did they add amphibious functionality? I find it hard to believe there weren't any M113s or BMPs in there before.
shit rocks, best update ive seen in a while
functionality
>functionality
Honestly, kinda deplorable even so. I understand it isn't the same engine, and it's essentially a reboot of the Wargame franchise, but I still think you should at least include the basic mechanics from the previous iterations at launch.
The new WARNO update is good as hell, plus 1000+ concurrent players, frick yeah, the game hasn't been this populated since like day one. I hope its actual new players and not just returning people too.
I'm actually surprised how good it is. Multiple new and reworked maps and map configs, the new infantry trait system actually works as intended and is cool as hell (makes special forces and assault squads and reservists etc. actually play and feel different from one another, actually a good reason to take SF now), suppression changes actually work without being busted as frick like steel division 1 was, 3rd armored changes were good (AT-4 fire teams in bradleys are good as hell, 2 pretty good new divisions although the NATO berlin command one is kind of a meme, I actually like the CV changes, and the UI improvements are a straight upgrade. A (kinda funny with bad voice acting) tutorial is there now too.
The only two things bad or straight busted is the nighthawk implementation. planes dont have a stealth stat (yet?) so it just functions as a suicide bomber that will 100% get targeted and die. I think i remember a dev saying on the steam forums they are gonna add the stealth stat so the plane cost is low for now, but that's lame.
The other thing that's weird is the AA changes. They made SPAAG's generally do less damage but more suppression (and planes will auto-evac if suppressed or below like 2 health now), which sounds good in theory but it means that A-10's and SU-25's are way too resilient versus AA guns right now.
Otherwise though this is a really good update. If they put out one or two more updates of this quality, with the Army General mode, some rebalancing, new units, and good polish, I think the game is release ready. Then I am pumped to get the NORTHAG and SOUTHAG expansions lol, I want my Yugo and Scando countries.
what is the infantry trait system? is it like steel division or like wargame where there is militia normal shock and elite troops?
It's a mix of both kinda. Most / all infantry have one of like 12 traits.
The main / most common ones are Special Forces, Shock, and Reservist which basically map onto Elite / Shock / Militia respectively from WGRD. Elite units move faster, don't get suppressed / stunned as easily, and have a higher RoF on top of their standard stats. Shock units take reduced suppression when fighting in close range like in buildings or forests. Reservists take more suppression in general and are more likely to be stunned or routed. (Thankfully unlike SD1 its not like every unit routs all the time lol, they actually mostly do just fight and die).
But then they added some more ones that are more specialized or flavored. Like Military Police grant a suppression reduction for units fighting near them. "IFV Infantry" (like the US Fire Teams or the BMP Motostrelki) take less suppression when near their IFV. "Resolute" units (AKA the East Germans) are like ideologically indoctrinated I guess and so take a little less suppression across the board. Some NATO recon units have "GSR" (Ground Surveillance Radar) so they get additional optics level when not moving. Obviously also there's the Airborne and Recon units which can deploy farther ahead in the map at match start.
Mostly the gameplay change is that it makes infantry combat actually about quality and mix and not just quantity. Before who'd win any infantry fight was bringing the mostest largest squads. Now having a mix of cheap reservists and shock troops actually works well.
Also now CV units upvet the guys near them so there's a theoretical reason to bring CV infantry and tanks rather than just the cheap jeeps.
First impressions really positive.
that sounds pretty cool. do you think the game is developed enough to be worth buying yet?
I got my money's worth from it so far and it seems to be heading in the right direction so I would say yes. Like I said above I think this game is like two more patches like this away from being great. It just needs like 4 more maps, one more big pass for balance of the existing divisions, one more big pass for polish, UI, and optimization (particularly I think the unit sounds effects and some of the gun effects are weak right now, but the soundtrack slaps), at least the first big batch of single player campaigns, and a nice collection of new units (I think I'd prefer rounding out the existing divisions than adding new ones right this second but would be glad to have both), and the game will be in a really good spot IMO and ready for "1.0" release.
IMO it's a really encouraging sign that Eugene is actually willing to change unit balance around and make major mechanical changes rather than just sort of sleepwalking through content additions of maps and new divisions.
The only caveat is that even though I really like the game right now there is always the possibility that because of their zero marketing budget and Wargame's infamously fickle fan community this game could also just dwindle and die a slow obscure death unfortunately. But as a game right now it's pretty good and I genuinely think on it's way to becoming a worthy successor to Wargame.
>polish
i hope they never add the polish
It's all but guarantied. Diversity sells better than the same nations over and over. And PACT doesn't have that much to pick from compared to NATO.
I would rather they add like 1-3 divisions from new interesting countries at a time rather than keep adding more and more USSR and USA divisions tbh, more completely new units and keeps things interesting
Better than "we are adding this crazy new obscure USSR division. Guess what? It uses - wait for it - BMP's and T-72's."
Madmatt is a poleaboo so they will get added. Except they'll get only useless outdated units because he has a hard on for that junk
Why not?
I hope they add the Poles just so you can kill them
Only thing I dislike is the role of veterancy and the fact that zones don't need CVs anymore.
I LIKE that they want CVs to be used offensively and to support troops. Thats fine.
I DISLIKE that the comeback mechanic related to CVs is effectively removed from the game. Also backline harrassment gameplay was fun in my eyes and now that's toned down significantly.
Now the game feels like it's really just a single protracted clash where one side accumulates advantage over time and wins.
>comeback mechanic
Unfortunately people, not even eugen themselves, seem to really understand the function of CVs having to stay in the zone.
>How it works now:
Now, if we start with 200 pts, I buy a tank and a CV, you buy a tank and a CV. The CV caps all the zones and we meet in the middle zone for a fight. If you destroy my tank my CV retreats and you gain victory points. I spend the next 100 pts on a tank, you spend the next 100 pts on a tank. You have 2 tanks, I have 1. Basically, you won the first engagement, this provides significant advantage for the next engagement. And again after that and again after that. The snowball effect is quite large.
>How it used to work.
If we both buy 1 CV and 1 Tank, the CV stays in a backzone. If I lose my tank. Neither of us gain victory points. BUT, the next 100 points of income you can spend on a new CV to capture a zone and gain victory points while I MUST spend those 100 points to replace the tank. The state of the game is now, you 2 CVs and 1 tank and me 1 tank 1 CV. This gives the loser a fighting chance. I might hunt for the second CV to claw back some advantage so you're incentivized to spend some points to defend that second CV. This means your forces are also spreading a bit thin. Essentially winning the first engagement isn't a super duper snowballing advantage. You have to consistently outplay.
And in reverse, if I start to come back, I'll also have to spend my income on CVs to actually get victory points.
I totally get what you're saying - and although I like the change overall I agree that we did lose a 'comeback mechanic' of CV sniping to buy time in a losing match - but the problem with your simplified example is that its too simplified; in a real game with a 1500 points budget there's a 'law of large numbers' effect where even if you get memed and lose a couple units, unless you went absolutely bunga and lost not one but like 6 or 7 units, you should have enough units to use to fight your way back to even if you play right.
The real way that this new mechanic plays out is like this:
>People buy 1 cv and queue-move it between 2-3 zones at the beginning to get all the safe caps and then contest the mid point
>Then you have contested mid zone where the 2 players meet and fight
>If you are losing mid then they are at +1 zone over you until they attack your safer zones
The effective change really is less money spent on CV's and more on units, and less emphasis on the choice of building up early point leads by buying lots of CV's vs. allocating full budget to winning mid
IMO the far more interesting thing they should look at is how can we get more mobile CV's to back-cap enemy zones which don't have any units in it (incl. no CV). I haven't played with it yet but there may be more use for command helicopters here or more mobile inf CV
>auto-evac if suppressed
oh my god they brought that moronic mechanic from Shit Division 2
Does WARNO allow 10v10 against bots? I think in RD you had to play on a server to do it PVP only, and I'm too shit for PVP...
I'm gonna play some mp and see if I can win in Waryes.
>female units in my RTS
wtf.
Imagine the rape.
hot
>Research actual Battalion level tactics for the Soviets.
>Hop into an MP match, thinking I'm gonna run these Black folk into the ground
>Combat recon patrol goes out, finds the main American push
>A couple BMP's die, but that's fine, I gained knowledge on where he's coming from and what he has.
>Realize I don't have enough units or points to properly form the Advanced body of troops needed to attack.
>Not to mention nowhere near the reserves needed for the third echelon
>American player is thunder running an Abrams/Bradley combo right down my throat.
Perhaps I miscalculated...
the way wargame is structured makes it entirely unsuitable for real life doctrines or realistic brigade OOBs, it's cold war RTS smash bros
it's almost as if its a videogame with its own rules
I always cringe when people try to apply real world military tactics/strategy in games, like ARMA neckbeard larpers bragging about having read Sun Tzu.
I sometimes wonder about the opposite. Would crazy tactics pulled off in video games sometimes really work in real life?
One example is heli-rushing. Generally, modern warfare has revealed helicopters to be kind of useless individually because of stingers and the like.... but if you have 10 helicopters, sure someone might get hit by that stinger, but there's 9 helicopters who might see where missile came from and light up that position.
Another example which probably works but will probably never be acceptable is sending human waves of low quality troops to draw fire from enemy / drain supply and thus make them reveal themselves and be less of a threat for following higher-quality tanks and forces.
Or deliberately sending planes in to soak enemy AA with the knowledge that a BUK only has 3 missiles ready so even if 3 planes die that's just acceptable if you can bring more. Things like that probably shock theorists who have their neat and tidy expectations subverted by supreme gamer logic and tactics™.
Seeing as you described 3 actua tactics that are widely used IRL (aside from #2 usually being done with highly mobile forces that can withdraw fast, although auxiliary infantry works too, and #3 being done with cruise missiles and drones), I think that you are deliberately baiting.
"Helo rush" is literally how airborne infantry actually works most of the time.
>Another example which probably works but will probably never be acceptable is sending human waves of low quality troops to draw fire from enemy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
>Or deliberately sending planes in to soak enemy AA with the knowledge that a BUK only has 3 missiles ready so even if 3 planes die that's just acceptable if you can bring more.
The Americans did that in Nam. Had special mission objectives for parts of an Air Raid to go play chicken with fricking SAMs.
>Or deliberately sending planes in to soak enemy AA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel
I think the main thing games can't simulate very well that's very important IRL is morale and friction, all the games both vidya and tabletop that tries to implement it have been unimpressive, frustrating (although I guess that's the point) and/or janky.
Something basically no game does is asking the question if your barely trained reservist human shield or sea of T-34s actually wants to die gloriously, and maybe that's a good thing
Sperged over historical documents and manuals:
Based his tactics on america frick yeah memes:
>American player is thunder running an Abrams/Bradley combo right down my throat.
I had one of my best mp games ever last night and it was exactly this. 3rd armored, m1a1 abrams and bradley spam. i was able to just pick him apart with TOWs and the m1a1s tanking.
I also got a few very lucky gun runs with the A-10 and it shredded like 5 t-80's. when i watched the replay i couldn't believe it. it was killing units i didn't even realize lol
3rd Armored is so fricking good after this patch, probably the best NATO Division. It's funny how really it was just a mild buff to the Fire Teams and helis that made this whole division really come together.
>6-man but 2-support weapon + AT-4 fire teams in Bradleys locking down towns and blasting enemy tanks with TOW's and IFV's with the Basedmaster
>M1A1 beast-mode accuracy wrecking T-80's
>Apache rockets decimating entire infantry pushes
>A-10 Rapehog absolutely brapping helicopters, tanks, infantry, everything
>F-15 merking enemy air from across the map
>Chappy + PIVADS Mommy and Daddy AA net everywhere brapping and blasting down everything in the air
>ACAV + Scouts and sending ACAV into forests for cheeky snipes plus loads of visibility from the Scouts
So much fun, by far my favorite division right now. Before this patch I was a 5th Blindee Francegay but now I feel way more at home with good American metal. PACTgays just can't compete
Holy shit you talk like a fricking troony
Least troony obsessed /misc/tard.
go back, you do not fit in here.
3rd Armored is insanely strong. I honestly don’t know how anyone can lose a single game with them.
Getting addicted to tacticals lately
>tacticals
Cringe.
Friendship is magic.
Are helis still insanely tanky in Warno? Is helirush as good in Warno as it is in wargame? Asking as someone who has a personal helirusher blacklist for WGRD
Heli rush is significantly less viable in Warno than in WGRD. in general helicopters are more 'specialized' units with less availability so they aren't nearly as spammable.
There was actually a hot week after the latest big patch where armored Helicopters were OP as hell due to the changes they made to AA and the reduction of the +Accuracy bonus on AA from increased Veterancy, and people were doing Apache spam, but then it got hotfixed like yesterday
There are very few games where people insta-kill your entire opener with helicopters or a cheeky air or artillery strike on a main road
The only exception to this is A-10's and SU-25's are extremely powerful and tanky so people very often pair one up with a recon helicopter and blast towards you with that at match start. it's not game ending but it its enough of a risk to always recommend an ASF because the CAS plane will tend to reach your forces before your shilkas, chapparals, etc. reach the frontline.
I have had games where I run that and they brought no opening AA or planes. getting 4-5 transport kills on their special forces units is enough to really frick up someone's game lol
Good to know, how come artying the road is less viable?
I feel like the multiple starting positions between both recon and para forward deployment just ruin the economy of it. In Red Dragon even if they evade the barrage they have to wait it out or take a less optimal path while in Warno everyone may already be deployed past it.
Better to spend your points on your own forward deployments or on CAS that can be more flexible.
Okay WARYES sisters. List your...
>favorite NATO division
>favorite PACT division
>favorite NATO unit
>favorite PACT unit
I'll start.
>3rd Armored
>KdA
>M3 Bradley
>2S7 Malka
>1st Armoured
>7th Panzer
>Challenger Tank
>Akula Helocopter (or any of the Hind varients)
>NADO UNID
Tornado (SEAD)
>PAGD UNID
Fs SPG-9
>NADO DIV
EBIN BERLIN GOMMAND
>PAGT DIV
ZENDRUM
>Tornado (SEAD)
I fricking love that plane.
>8th mech or the panzergren
>the new one
>Bradley IFV
>any of their MLRS
I just wish 8th Inf got at least some cards of the Bradley IFV, that's the real weak spot of that division, lack of good IFV's.
I was playing them the other day and canot describe how badly I wanted a nice autocannon shooting, TOW-equipped armored vehicle to support my mech riflerinos
I actually prefer their tank options to 3rd armored though, the M1 Abrams is like the perfect price / performance for spam, and you have the option of the M1A1 as well for heavy tank standoffs
NATO division
11e division parachutiste
PACT division
7. panzerdivision
NATO unit
p4 milan paras
PACT unit
east german t-72s (none in particular)
This is the way now
New patch meta IMO is France and East Germany
The game right now is really favoring 'masses of good price-to-performance tanks' AKA the French AMX-30's and the East German T-72's
That plus the French Grenadiers and Mot-Schutzen are great spammable infantry
I personally think 7th Panzer may be the best div in the game because in addition to T-72 spam they also have the BMP-1P which I think is better than the French VAB's
The only weakness really in the French decks are that you need to complement your forces with lots of Milan 2's in case they bring heavy tanks, and their Helicopters are shit
But basically it's really hard to stop a superior number of Infantry + IFV's + tanks + ATGM spam, even with individually superior units
That being said, the USSR 39th and 79th are still really good, as are the US 3rd Armored especially and to a lesser extent 8th Infantry, but for me, it's 100-150 point tank spam
Funnily enough 3rd Armored plays really interesting where you rely so heavily on Bradley spam and A-10's, their megahuug Abrams are actually a little secondary just because they are so expensive
8th Infantry I've had shockingly good success playing in really counter-intuitive way, which is basically spamming the cheaper fire teams in the M113 Dragons with the M60 tanks (Also with A-10 spam lol). Their signature unit of Mech Rifles is just too expensive
>favorite NATO division
3rd Armored
2nd Place: 5th Blindee
>favorite PACT division
39th Motostrelki
2nd Place: 7th Panzer
>favorite NATO unit
A-10 Warthog ATGM
2nd place: Fire Team (AT-4) in the M2 Bradley
>favorite PACT unit
Motostrelki METIS in the BMP-1P
2nd place: The little 35 point SPG truck lol
how do you counter artillery with the attack ground+ queue move order combo?
Multiple, simultaneous, deep strikes with CAS.
Sometimes the best you can hope for is threating the counterbattery to just force him to relocate and alleviate some of the pressure. Other than that once you have the arty, just fire it at juicy targets instead of counterbatterying and at least equalize the pressure.
But other than that:
This is a good idea. It's perfectly possible if a bit dangerous.
You should buy both and financially support Eugene.
anyone else remember this gif from back in the day
'whos the cripple now lol' gets me every time
Compared to RD, due to income inflation, shit-tier units are priced much more competitively and "good" units priced very highly. Crits can also instakill a challenger from the front.
Basically, WARNO is a lot more spammy. People are upset at spam but the reality is just cheap units > good units.
>People are upset at spam but the reality is just cheap units > good units.
True to a point, but my last game where my M1A1(HA) abrams (300 points) got like 9 kills (720 points) against T-62 spam alone shows its not a universal rule lol
Currently the 'sweet spot' seems to be as many of the ~150-200 point tanks as possible. As in M1 Abrams / M1A1 Abrams; or T-72M1 / T-80B tier. Spamming the goldilocks middle at least for me has had the best success.
I would rather have 2 base abrams than 1 superheavy because the main challenge with superheavies is they just simply will die to planes. Also, Warno maps are a little smaller / cramped so the odds of your opponent being able to bum rush you or forest-shot you with a RPG to the side are higher.
That said when it comes to infantry spam is definitely the name of the game. The update improved this dynamic a lot I would say, but at the end of the day a flood of flame engineers and squads with METIS or Dragon II launchers can rip through a forest and come out the other end as a force to be reckoned with.
Lost a game to someone who played 82nd Airborne who just spammed nothing but Dragon fire teams, Stinger squads, flame engineers, and airborne squads. In retrospect there was possible counterplay but his initial human wave was so strong and I just got ripped apart by the endless wave of ATGMs and his stingers killed all my copters lol. I panicked and sent cheap tanks to try and fight them but the sheer quantity of Dragon II's overcame me
The inf-spam meta is also why the light-vehicle "cheap spam" is also meta. But I think more active mortar use might be the real under-explored territory here to counter it.
>I panicked and sent cheap tanks to try and fight
Hey that's my best strategy too
Waryes is simply the better game in the long run.
Now that they're adding EW aspects like jamming radar optics and changing the SEAD to debuff AA instead of being a missile truck I feel like the groundwork is being laid to finally go beyond RD in depth.
They're being bold with mechanics. Lets just see if that boldness translates to units. Some divisions feel left behind or left out from the adding of traits.
>reach the other side of the map in a 10v10
>it's pointless because the enemy can just keep spawning shit
You don't have this problem in smaller games because if you're in the enemy's spawns you've probably already hunted down most of his CVs, but I hate how WARNO encourages slogging out in the centre of the map and juicy suicide cluster bombings more than actually controlling territory in my favorite game mode.
We should setup some vst game night bros
shit bros ive been getting a lot better at the game and was on like a 7 win streak in ranked but i get absolutely destroyed by the airborne divisions particularly the PACT VDV division
how the frick am i supposed to compete as like 3rd armored
>infinite iglas + ASF spam neutralizes my air
>cheap howitzer spam kills my AA and any vehicle that gets visible even for a second
>cost effective infantry horde in every forest and town, fireteams just cant compete
>over 9000 konkurs and metis cards makes any of my vehicles DOA on open ground
>every unit is pound for pound cheaper
I basically fought it to a draw / early lead then faded in the stretch and ultimately folded as i literally ran out of infantry cards
Watching the replay I saw some stuff I could have done differently, but the problem I always have is its really hard to know where my enemy is weak while the game is happening.
Obviously recon exists but the with enough IGLA spam helicopters are not viable and infantry has such high stealth in cover theres no way to probe and get intel without spending all your points on one-way trip suicide recon missions.
I always overestimate the number of forces my opponent has lol im like general mcclellan im seeing double and getting spooked by ghost units
3rd Armored has more powerful units, but is much slower to build up forces. A lot of its power budget is spent on Abrams, Bradleys, and A-10's. Everything is really good but expensive.
35th-YA has weaker units individually, but are more cost effective, and more get on the field faster.
To win, you have to weather the initial onslaught and build up and unstoppable frick-you strong push of armor and cut through them. This means you have to play defensively at first with your ground forces, but also make some strong plays early with A-10's, Apaches, or similar to get some kills and not completely lose the initiative / take too many losses.
3rd Armored early-game air spam is 'meta' because otherwise each fire team is ~100 points in the Bradley and your cheapest abram is ~240 points, whereas the VDV guy is buying 40 point INF in a 20 point transport that gets sold - you'll fall behind too fast and get overwhelmed.
You're right though. 35th is fricked to play against. The main thing is they just get wild helicopter and air spam, while also having enough strong infantry and infantry-based AT options to fill up every nook and cranny of the map. They are just fricking annoying. You think you're winning and then they spam those transport helicopters with rockets over here and the SPG trucks there and a Spetsnaz push through the forest and then the whole line collapses. That's why you need to hit them hard early. If you can get map control and recon your tanks will eat them alive.
On the Artillery side sounds like you should have just counter-batteried though, the howitzers are towed and so have slow move speed and can't get out of the way in time.
I'm not really a 3rd armor player but I think what I'd do is simply challenge them for air dominance. You have the F-15s, you have the A-10s. Hell YOU'RE the air division not him. His ground based AA isn't great so if you win the air war you're in a great position and can take down helicopters with your A10s. Drain Iglas by flying over his AA with your F-15. In the end you can bomb him out or swarm him with Apaches.
Relying on ground units and expensive abrams against him is just going to be a slog when it comes to cleaning up the infantry spam and he'll throw bombers at your expensive tanks. So your own bombers are gonna be necessary simply to speed up the process, and for bombers to get free reign you need to clear the airspace, which should be doable as 3rd armored.
Just get some superheavies lol
>get clustered instantly
You can't get superheavies. (For one, they're just heavies lmao).
Because if you need to build an army worthy of mordor to support it so it won't die.
>needs supply for repair and smoke rearm
>needs recon to spot targets because it can't see shit
>needs CAP and/or long range radar AA to cover you at all times because you are a clusterbomb magnet and they'll somehow always have vision on you
>needs anti-heli AA to stave away panic helicopters
>needs fire-support because you sure as hell can't clean up all the shit-tier infantry on your own
Basically just cheapshit instead and build. Then at the end if you've cleared the skies or have built all the support you can maybe bring a heavy.
>I always overestimate the number of forces my opponent has lol im like general mcclellan im seeing double and getting spooked by ghost units
recon is your friend anon, always remember that if you are trading even barely acceptably your opponent never has many more forces than you do
>broken arrow demo drops
>its shit
looks like you got me again, eugene
Is south africa worth it?
I haven't played them enough to know, and I also play singleplayer almost exclusively because I don't invest enough time to be any good against micro-heavy sweats in MP, but I like them just for the flavor.
I wish I could enjoy the SP, but the AI just too horrible. It’s a shame that Eugen never made it bearable, and I’m sure that it also has directly affected the number of MP players as it is hard to get in the game as a beginner when the AI can’t act as a proper training opponent.
nah. just get fr or eu moto
>wargame red dragon
>WARNO
>regiments
what is best for mainly single player against AI?
Regiments is the only one with an actual campaign and AI that doesn't actively try to lose.
wargame red dragon has a series of campaigns which are pretty good, but the AI is bad so its almost a tower defense game as the AI suicide bombs you with all of its forces. That said it is genuinely fun
Warno will have a much bigger single-player based on the 'army general' mode they developed for steel division 2, which is basically almost a 'total war' style strategic layer where you move units around on a map, then do tactical battles. the single-player AI is also much much improved and i would say is at a competent level.
Regiments has a more traditional single player campaign but i cant really comment on it. it has no multiplayer at all
>which is basically almost a 'total war' style strategic layer where you move units around on a map, then do tactical battles
Isn't that what the Wargame campaigns are?
>That said it is genuinely fun
Bullshit.
Defense of Busan is good. The rest are shit because they're weighed down by the absolutely fricking abysmal naval combat.
Bear vs. Dragon is absolute dogshit, not even worth attempting.
busan pocket and pearl of the orient are extremely fun, i admit not all of them are as good, but for like 20 bucks its worth the price of admission
Wargame RD single player is garbage. Wargame EE was the only one with a vaguely decent campaign.
Man have you played the EE campaign recently? It is so fricking tedious and slow. It has better campaign design in terms of it being a conventional RTS game camapign with a linear series of missions, but holy shit man that campaign is just so much waiting to queue up lots of tanks and then attack moving.
The best thing about EE was the versus campaign. I would play against my friend who was good at wawrgame and he'd take the side that was always worse off
I don't think WARNO has singleplayer yet.
As
notes there are plans to bring SD2's army general whatever to it, which I heard was good but haven't played myself so I can't testify to it.
>which I heard was good
it was a bit mixed, the overall campaign was fun but the skirmish maps tended to get reused a lot and the way your individual forces were split up, you could go into battles with like half a deck
the set forces of ALB's campaign with the map and movement of AG would be the best mix
Yeah, SD2 army general takes some time to wrap your head around, or you’re gonna have bad time with fights where you get only infantry against tanks etc., and some awful match-ups can’t be avoided. Not necessarily a bad thing but something to be aware of.
I believe they later expanded it to allow deployment of up to five battalions per a battle.
What I'm not sure will translate are the strategic level abilities like battalions of AA not allowing the deployment of any planes within their influence on the map. Maybe helicopters could ignore it so air assault battalions aren't easily countered, but I feel aircraft are a lot more essential in Warno to making certain armies good.
>I believe they later expanded it to allow deployment of up to five battalions per a battle.
that would change it up, I only played shortly after release
RD despite the braindead AI because WARNO's general mode get's boring after an hour because most battles are very samey. Regiments is alright but it's smaller scale than both and the AI cheats a frickton
homie the army general mode isnt even out yet
How did you know I was a Gankerer? Was it something I said Sneed?
How'd you know it was me. Also milk dribble of kiev is a very 4chud name
>raped by giga artillery
>again
Why are Wargame fans so fricking annoying? Literally the furries of the RTS community.
>mfw HEAT is getting nerfed because of a meme video
Why the NATO Berlin division is so shit when compared to WP’s Untermenschen Zentrum?
The Berlin Light Rifles are great, but it's true it's not enough
Skill issue.
What you do is build an impenetrable wall of infantry. Make sure all your berlin rifles have a supply truck for dat continuous RR damage. Then you get a shitton of artillery. If he tries to counterbattery you, use the nighthawk to snipe his arty. Use artillery to shell things that are too far away. Push with berlin light rifles and melt everything else. Avoid long ranges at all cost. If it can't be helped, use smoke screens to set up ranges such that berlin light rifles are always in range of using their RR.
arguably its intentional / historical but yeah no doubt, besides BLR's which are OP (I want more recoilless rifles god dammit!!!) Berlin Command frickin sucks, probably the only division that can be called objectively bad
Just played a match with them in a rather open map, and holy frick is their AA miserly to use. When your ground based AA is all manpads or shitty AAA, you’d want a good fighter but nope, you either get slow as frick AA Harriers that are useless at anything but copter sniping, or you need to use your expensive strike planes as shitty multiroles.
I can’t recall the last time I got plane raped thst hard.
manpads are pretty good right now imo so i spam them even with divisions with 'better' AA options, but yeah dude those british planes fricking suck
Mistrals and Stingers are fine otherwise, but it’s a pain to construct a large area AA net on them alone. I really like them in hotspots, but you’d need something more mobile or long-ranged against planes if you want to cover a wider front.
warno is cool and fresh, was on the fence for ages even bought and returned it b4, but the current version of the game is enjoyable, also i have the feeling that there a less meme strats or atleast a lot of people havent figured out the meta yet. had fun 1v1 matches.
also i havent met an artygay until now in teamgames
awwwwwwwww yeeeeeeeeee new patch warnosisters, new maps, balance, and improved LoS tool, supply chaining
Literally made the game worse. Pointless patch.
>worse
How?
>SAM ranges increased, but bugged so no missile has range over 4000m, not even air to air missiles
>changed splash damage on everything so nothing can kill infantry, bombers made useless, artillery made useless
>LOS tool also brought undocumented LOS change, units in blue area pretty much act as obstructed rather than stealthed units and so you get invisible tanks shooting you
>literally impossible to attack a town now because nothing damages infantry
Biggest balance change was basically "Nerfed UK" who everyone agreed needs buffs
When asked why no buffs reply is simply
>waiting for le meta to settle
Literally seconds after someone found a way to make 1st AD bearable by using gun groups and MG teams to get cheap warriors and scorpion tanks to swarm with it was nerfed immediately. Guess waiting for meta to settle just means everyone giving up playing UK.
Skill issue
Yeah, good thing I haven't bought this trash yet. Might check it out when they finally release Army General.
yeah dude the shit is fricked
HE bombers, helicopter rockets, and artillery essentially do nothing now lmao
eugen says they intentionally hit it with the nerf bat as hard as possible to then incrementally move it back up until it 'feels right' but i think it didn't feel overpowered before
people did get annoyed at how artillery could just one-by-one delete units from the map, how suicide HE bombers would guarantee get value, and how strong helicopters were in general. but IMO the problem wasnt really the raw damage
they should have increased AA effectiveness, e.g. damage and range, and should have increased artillery dispersion or aim time rather than making it do ... no damage lol
you can literally have two HE bombers drop two full payloads on one squad in a forest and they'll survive. it's moronic
frickin eugen man the post-Oudinot, pre-this patch Warno felt so fricking good
Why are frenchies so moronic?
I think they actually also decreased HE values across the board. TTK is super high now. Tanks can just unload on infantry and they keep on trucking. In buildings they’re practically invincible until the building is destroyed.
Im 99% sure this will be addressed very soon but for now the ‘meta’ is shaking out to be swarms of infantry because they’re so durable. ATGM’s are super effective. So just like, swarms of Dragons, TOW’s, and beefy frontline squads are really hard to deal with.
It doesn’t feel good man, tanks vs. infantry is gimped. You’re actually incentivized to swarm cheap tanks because you need that many barrels and guns firing to deal enough damage to deal with the infantry.
In forests though, forget it, idk what the frick you’re supposed to do except ‘have more guys’
>In forests though, forget it, idk what the frick you’re supposed to do except ‘have more guys’
Because of the LOS changes, you'll note that inside a forest there's now a blue area. The blue area is "can fire, but cannot see". This means if something 'else' sees anything in the blue area, you can shoot at it without them able to shoot back. So you can exploit this to use tanks or IFVs in forests. They literally can't see you because apparently it works as "no line of sight" and not like stealth. So their optics don't seem to matter either, they need direct vision on you.
i thought there are no LoS changes, just the LoS tool display. i thought blue area means ‘the unit can fire at units in this zone, but can not necessarily detect all the units in this zone (based on respective optics and stealth stats).’
They balance around their tiny quote unquote "competitive scene" rather than just playing the game themselves.
>competitive scene
Why do small games even care about that shit? They're not going to be the next Starcraft. Moreover, I'm willing to bet that the majority of their player base doesn't even play multiplayer.
Loyal pay piggies, I suppose. To get SP fellas to buy your useless nation packs, you'd need to add a campaign or some such thing.
Singleplayer babbies are the cancer of RTS, they are the reason why the genre is almost dead today. Only competitive multiplayer matters as the only pure expression of what RTS games are aupposed to be about.
This is literally completely backwards lol, the vast majority of RTS players throughout its history and especially at its peak were almost SP exclusively. This is an objectively true fact. The multiplayer sweatlord community is the cancerous growth on RTS that has killed the host.
I say this as someone who plays multiplayer RTS as their primary genre lol, fact of the matter is RTS gradually abandoned their single player communities to myopically focus on the vocal minority of us MP spergs and that had a big hand in making the genre's releases ever less relevant to what the vast majority of people want to play.
The vast majority of RTS players play single player. But keep coping, delusional moron.
>I'm willing to bet that the majority of their player base doesn't even play multiplayer.
I think this would be a huge stretch based on what I know about Wargame players at the very least. I think there's a lot of people who play MP in small groups with their friends, especially the Army General mode in SD, without ever touching the "mass" multiplayer lobbies, but the AI in these games is so annoying to play against there's no chance that the majority of people play these games play to watch the AI try to sneak heavy tanks behind your lines or attack your positions in brain dead human wave attacks.
I don't know what Eugene was thinking with the latest patch. It was perfect and then back to shit so quickly that I cannot believe that this was given the green light at all. Now morons who never space their tanks or infantry are being positively rewarded because they can't be punished for their brainlet move, with the only counter being the same brainlet move. The worst part is that a huge chunk of the player base are absolute mouth breathing morons who have a tantrum when their epic and tacticool straight line of tanks gets bombed because they're too moronic to micro units beyond mass select into attack move. Now the exact same people who asked for this trash are asking for a revert after realizing every game has turned into heavy tank spamming or infantry blobs.
The division system is such crap too and should've stayed with Steel Division. The fact that an infantry div is restricted to less than 20 incredibly shitty ATGM units and being entirely unable to get anything better while an armored div can have over 40 significantly armored tanks is beyond stupid. There shouldn't be a handful of divisions which exist to be an optional joke that you could play like the Brits or one of the W. Germs divs. Sure you can argue that certain coalitions in RD weren't good but in the hands of someone competent can be made to be effective, with Warno being so painfully restrictive in comparison and locked tight for the sake of "realism" that it isnt worth the effort to play them. A Eugene dev even stated that it was intended to have worthless divs with a completely unbalanced amount of unit availability for flavor.
Tl;dr realismgays suck and Eugene is moronic
>realismgays
Eugen game design decisions have zero to do with realism.
>Eugene is moronic
They've been moronic for many years now. They lost critical talent back in 2014 and there is an ongoing employee exodus since 2018.
Buddy, the first paragraph contradicts your claims about "realism". They listen to morons on discord who cry when a plane or arty kills their shiny units. Decreasing the damage is the opposite of realism.
Not him but the gays on their Discord claim that reduced damage is realistic. It's even a popular opinion that cluster planes shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily. It's the same group of people who demanded that AA should have way more range to reflect their real life counterpart, which did eventually happen.
Eugene has been particularly more communicative with Warno than past games so I wouldn't be surprised if they're actually listening to mass complaining.
Tanks were always overpowered in Eugen games since Red Dragon. It only gets worse after each game/update. It's been forever since I played Warno, but Steel Division 2 was extremely bad, infantry only had point blank AT weapons (aside from shitty AT rifles), and AT guns couldn't be hidden in a forest
In Red Dragon infantry is overpowered. It is deadly, difficult to dislodge from a defensive position and dirt cheap, which is balanced by their short range (excluding ATGM teams, who are much squishier). Expensive tanks are difficult to kill with the right positioning, but they are literally incapable of defeating infantry in towns/forests on their own. This creates a balanced environment where you have to use combined arms to its full extent.
SD2 throws it all out of the window. Not only there are less unit classes in this game, but there is also zero balance between them. It's a shitty game.
Warno leverated it somewhat, but now Eugen is once again doing balance swings with their braindead buffs/nerfs to AA and aircraft, which was an issue in SD2 too.
Can someone explain to me what I'm supposed to use wild weasels for?
SEAD. You fly them to an area where you expect there to be enemy AA, if they detect any AA radar they'll fire missiles at it and frick off. If the enemy is good at micro he'll order his radar AA to turn off their radars when he detects a WW approaching, and you'll be screwed.
beat the AI for the first time bros!!!
AI in wargame sucks. They get like infinite more spawn points and just bum rushes you. It's impossible to win in an open engagement you need to bait them deep inside cities or forests. Plus they always know where your fricking cv is too. It's way worse in Naval. You gotta cheese them and it's not fun, only time consuming.
what other nations do you think they'll add to WARNO?
since they're doing alt-his anyway, I hope they'll throw in yugoslavia and china on the pact side
why, our greatest ally of course!
Belgium FreeLC.
Poland DLC.
Royal Mounted Corp DLC.
Czech Republic surplus from the 80s (no Moderna for you Chud!) DLC
134th Romanian Gypsy Patatroopers Division DLC (FINALLY, BASED EUGEN!)
Dksh
Inevitable Finnish Expansion (NATO this time, with a long essay from Madmat about how stupid and unrealistic Red Dragon is)
>no Moderna
Fricking gay, what's the point then?
Poland gives me muh SKOTs, so I don't need Czechoslovakia then.
>Mental illness wrote this post
The anime pic is the cherry on top.
They've announced they have two planned expansions
NORTHAG - Baltic Sea (Scando, Poland)
SOUTHAG - Mediterranean (e.g. Italy, Yugo)
We will also get Marines decks (e.g. US / USSR Marines) in one or both in addition to new countries
'89 MiG-29Ks with different loadouts are the only thing I'm really looking forward to in this game. Luv me Sov. Marines, love me Ka-28s, hope they add me Shark, simple as.
>opponent stacks five airborne squads inside an apartment building
>call in my Su-24 for some high explosive Syrian War action
>drop 8 x 500kg bombs right on the roof expecting to make Turkey look like the little league
>kill one (1) yankee
>they're not even stunned either
So this is the power of German engineering huh?
The 10v10 mode has alot of inherent appeal towards casual gamers so I think the WG series has a higher proportion playing MP than other RTS games.
That said we're probably talking about 20-30%
i was away from red dragon for a while but reinstalled it. tried some 10v10s
one was fun but the rest quickly devolved into team killing, stacked teams, people spamming units to feed into enemy lines
deleted again
homies think im gay the way im always chasin' the SACK
teamkilling in WGRD is based and VERY redpilled
fav team killing strats for 10v10?
north korean bomber run on friendly start area as soon as game starts is a personal fav topkek
The J-21 is a rocket plane with 6 secondary napalm rockets, no one suspects it ever has them either. I like to provide danger close support to my allies infantry with it, they never suspect the napalm to rout their guys. Yugoslavia has the most napalm units in the game, so you can always frick with your team. The prototype vehicle with the rockets is good too, because it has napalm rockets to spam at spawn roads
>SD2 is getting more (mapless) Division Packs
If there’s something I REALLY dislike about Eugen, it’s how they are so stingy with maps. Yeah, developing them takes time and I suppose that they have dev tools from hell because they seem to be so averse to making more maps, but it’s just so tiresome to see those same maps again and again and again. It ruined especially Red Dragon for me, because it had such comically small map selection, with a horribad ratio of actually enjoyable maps vs. junk.
agreed - low map selection in sd2 kinda ruined it for me. Eugene has gone on record saying basically that adding maps would make the game over 100gb which they don't wanna do for some reason
It really looks like a skill issue. If they were good at their job, they could improve their dev tools, but unfortunately, they're french.
Going from Airland Battle to Red Dragon was a big letdown for that reason. AB had a ton of good maps, but RD had only a few decent ones
Why are the French so bad at life?
the french revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity
Supposedly WARNO is meant to receive map tools one day, which is the main reason I'm interested in it at all.
That's what they were saying at the beginning but haven't mentioned that in some time.
they promised the same thing for steel division 2.
is teamkilling still fun in WARNO as it us in red dragon?
>Beware, cummies nearby
i love ruining a good 10v10 with a few well placed bomb runs
>not buying as many 10 point supply trucks as you possibly can at the start and a 15 point tank to shoot at them to cause a massive chain reaction
Weak.
What's with the sudden influx of underages talking about team killing?
u mad?
>sudden
>spend all deployment points
>turn weapons off
>send them on fast move towards enemy
>spam /ALL chat with TIME TO EAT UP BOYS
Wasted dubs, you should just:
>spam cheap units
>follow teammate's cv
>have helicopters around cv
>have plenty of supply vehicles around cv
>fly cheap planes nearby
>enemy now sees helicopters
>enemy now bombs ally cv
>supply's make big explosion
I love tacticals
Why are so many tactics played on 1v1 maps?
if you suck your teammates can carry you
This looks pretty cool, if I only actually knew how to play WARNO
It's just simplified Wargame
if only I knew how to play Wargame
Play campaign in European Escalation and then get into 10v10 in Red Dragon.
If you're white I will make you suffer through the game until you learn it like I do with everyone else. You must hand me your evropan card though and I'll reward you.
Pact Infantry gonna make me bust
Is there a mod to remove naval battles from the red dragon campaign?
yeah it's called get a trainer dumb Black folk, play it or cheat it you can't remove it.
No need to be so rude
how can i cheat in mplayer red dragon? i heard there is a FoW cheat?
You'll need a cheat program, dunno where to get them, but it'll probably be in some slavic forum. There is a FoW cheat that people use, I assume you could also cheat in more resources per minute, or more starting resources. I know the trainers allow you to have infinite funds and infinite unit availability, so those could be done too. Maybe a cheat that improves a units stats or effects hit chances could go under the radar. Considering that the games anti-cheat is developer made, it would be easy to crack. It also hasn't been updated since 2015 iirc
There's also a lag cheat. Slows the game down to a crawl but the timer keeps going at a normal rate.
for multiplayer? wouldnt unlimited points or units be too obvious? i want to cheat in 10v10s
Only if you make it obvious. The points would be good, since you could always buy that one or two units that you needed. No one would notice as long as you don't keep plopping down whole waves of units. The unlimited units would be undetectable if you make sure to only go over once in awhile. You could also just use the normal unit amount while bringing the max vet available. Also 10v10s are such huge cluster fricks that you could get away with a lot of cheating. iirc Eugen only gives out week long bans at most
Nublet here, how the frick do I deal with Apaches spraying my tanks with hellfires from outside AA range? If I move my AA up they just kill that too.
Apaches and other expensive choppers are a mission for a suicide plane. Get a cheap-ish air superiority fighter, strafe the chopter with AA missiles and some gunfire, and it almost always gets blasted out of the sky. Granted, so does your fighter with high certainty too, but who gives a frick as long as you end up winning in the trade?
Nothing kills my immersion like seeing an Su-27 dive at an Apache or a Phantom suiciding to take out a Hind. It's just stupid.
the high end (if not all) planes should be more expensive and take longer to reach the battlefield when clicked tbh
Eugen needs to fricking fix HE and artillery.
whats wrong with it
Its not OP as shit anymore and winning requires more than arty spam.
DId you get this opinion from a youtuber or a discord?
I got this opinion from playing the game. Arty nerf was the best thing they did to the game
>noooooo your supposed to just get raped by arty the whole game
> counterbattery is not viable at all.
Warno is shit and continues with a lot of the issues of eugene. I'm waiting for broken arrow at this point.
Regiments is fun but its very hard because the units are realistic. You literally have to micro artillery because of constant counterbattery.
I HATE how the AI uses combined arms so well I'm struggling on Medium on the campaign.
Should I wait for WAR NO do get to full release? I don't like early access unless games very often.
For now it has only multi and skirmish, but if I remember correctly, army general (dynamic campaign like in Steel Division) is coming in the next update. I might buy the game then, if it turns out to be good.
>Regiments
Does this game have always online drm? And can you swap nato symbols for something else?
North American copies are DRM-free
Neither. Both are bloated games for cave dwellers with more than 3 different types of mental disabilities, made by a gamedev companies with the some of the worst management practice. Just sacrifice a sheep to Ubisost so they give us RUSE 2.
After about 15 multiplayer games, red dragon has finally clicked for me, and I'm actually having fun in MP. Last night I ran circles around my enemies in a 10v10 forest fight. I had a leclerc and a few low-tier french infantry in 20mm transports. They were spamming spetz and spetz grus with BMP-3s and had two burratinos supporting them against me. Every time they pushed in to the forest I fell back and dismantled them piece by piece. The burros only ended up killing an already damaged sapper and a recon inf. The kisser was at the end when they charged in with a 200 point command tank and then my own command tank shot it in the ass.
>20mm transports
VABs? I fricking love those guys.
latter
Bad game last night. Got fricked by nighthawks and atacms and maglans constantly without hardly even seeing the enemy. Sad!
I know what you mean. Getting real tired of the longbow + adats + atacms + cluster delete button artillery + nighthawks + delta force + suspiciously well aimed barrages/air strikes at CVs combo personally
>be me
>play france every ranked game
>spam amx-30 b2's
>spam amx-10 recon tanks
>spam grenadiers in vab's
>play defensively for first 15 minutes
>attack move with my entire force
>win every time
i have legit gone from like a 40% WR in ranked to about 65% with this amazing strategum
eugene please
This is the opposite of how israelitetubers say i should play france
>be me
>play landjut
>kill trillions of DLC Black folk
It just works
Who's dunkachino
Mech scandi is unbeatable in grinds or cities
>be a chink
>have an alt
>join a 3v3
>quit as soon as the game starts to get more income and availability
>HE and cluster the road outside the enemy spawn
>guaranteed win without a challenge
I have no idea why this do this, and it's more pathetic than anything. Imagine trying to cheat this hard just to get your WR up when you can just kill bots like wtf
I ban homosexuals with Chinese characters on their ign
>that unit you didn't appreciate until 1000hrs in
what happened to coldwargame? It got taken down years ago, was it stolen assets or something?
Wargame.
So, when is Eugene going to break radio silence on the FOBs they promised more than a week ago?
When they're ready. Stop being entitled.
I paid for the game, I am entitled.
I was poking around in the files
>Ammo_M185_155mm_NUKE
RadiusSplashPhysicalDamages = 800 * Metre
PhysicalDamages = 102.4
ShowDamageInUI = True
RadiusSplashSuppressDamages = 1600 * Metre
SuppressDamages = 800.0
RUSEchads...
I miss RUSE so much it's unreal.
Probably singleplayer only if real
It's been added to a few mods long ago. Pretty fun to frick around with, even if it's "only" a relatively small tactical nuke.
I've been a huge WARNO booster and really enjoying it but fricking French fricks still not reverting (or partially reversing) the awful HE damage reductions and plane bomb / artillery nerfs is fricking pissing me off so much
I win like 65% of my ranked games now only playing 5th Blindee or 7th Panzer and spamming AMX-30 B2's or T-72's because le blob is le unstoppable
But it's not any fun. I mixed it up with some 3rd Armored / 79th games which was OK but IDK.
WARNO's balance right at the Oudinot update was so good, why did they frick with it? It was snappy, fast, lethal, and every unit was valuable. Now it's just shitty medium tank spam.
Frick it, I'm gonna boot up Red Dragon for the first time in like 3 years this weekend. Wish me luck boys I always sucked at Red Dragon
Emmanuel Macron is fricking right French fricks are so fricking lazy, I hope the Macron Kill Squads force Eugene to fricking fix their games and work till their 70 to get the god damn helicopter line of sight fixed in Warno, lazy fricks
Just refunded WARNO after seeing it has mirrors in the automatch, frick that shit killed SD 2 for me. Why even have different equipment, two blocks of powers with unique equipment and synergies if I'm going to fight NATO on NATO. It kills all immersion for me. Frick player Numbers as well, they could include a toggle button like in AOE2 that you don't want fricking mirrors. I'm so mad, at least Broken arrow wont do that shit, at least as far as I know
Which game is good to get into this genre?
I do own Steel Divison Normandy 44 cause I got a key years ago from the devs but I never actually played it properly.
And why are all these games still so expensive? Red Dragon is 30€ for a 2014 game?
You've just missed a spring sale.
i know, i came back from vacation too late
Thoughts on the new update?
Also I see there's a couple of options for balance mods that slow down vehicles and such - is there a preferred mod for this? I agree that the game feels a bit blitzy and could be a slower paced
God is still on the side of the player who can attack move the most price effective tanks across the map.
My summary of the situation:
>Warno hits all-time peak with Oudinot patch, really good balance, everyone was having a great time, everything felt punchy and lethal, game felt like a faster-paced, more action-packed WGRD, it was wonderful, peak player counts
>Eugen for absolutely no reason except for screeching noskill morons on reddit, and completely gimps HE damage thereby severely reducing the lethality of artillery, bombers, and tanks vs. infantry; introduces a bunch of other moron-tier balance changes such as reducing autocannon aim-time to make autocannons stupid OP in forests, etc.
>Eugen eventually walks back the changes *a little bit* which is *better* but game is in a super weird state
>Now all the unit prices have no relation to actual effectiveness; planes are too expensive and do too little; superheavies are too expensive and die too easily
>Formerly middling medium tanks are now god-tier because you can spam them in sufficient numbers to counter terminator-tier infantry which require like 10 cannon shots to die
>its been weeks since the last meaningful balance patch
what am i missing
Eugene can still save the day by further walking back some of the HE changes, if they really insist on not having artillery be a delete button (to be fair), then also need to do an across-the-board major change to prices and availability
Seconded, Oudinot was very close to being perfect regarding the state of overall unit type balance, only really requiring division and unit-spefcific adjustments. Now it is utterly moronic how even super-expensive planes like that carpet bomb Mirage in Berlin Command are near useless, because why take a risk of using such a plane if it can’t reliably kill anything?
It's being balanced for 10v10 because that's what most people play.
This is most likely the case, for SD2 they had create a for-free testing team to actually be able to balance for 1v1 or 2v2
Seeing the Eugene devs respond to whining on their platforms has been the funniest shit I've ever seen
>Some moron on Reddit and their Discord whines about AA being shit
>AA being a giant pain in the ass due to units not firing on targets they have a clear visual on
>Other morons jump in and agree
>Eugene dev chimes in to say "ok guys, buffs will come in the next patch"
>Knee-jerk buff to AA by inflating range but completely forgot to adjust SEAD accordingly
>Now radar AA like the Buk and I-Hawk can snipe SEAD before it can fire its missile
>Other divs have infrared options that can ass blast planes anyway
>Planes effectively turn into cruise missiles
>The solution to the "suicide plane" is now even worse
>Autists are content now that an entire roster of units is now dog shit
>morons demand and suggest special features for certain infantry, such as IFV infantry performing better near IFVs
>Eugene lazily slaps together some ideas and throws it out
>Traits such as Special Forces literally do not do anything in the code and is an entirely fake trait to make it seem they put more effort than they actually did
>Autists beg for FOBs non-stop
>Dev chimes in to hint and tease FOBs
>Get FOBs
>Day one you could find any FOB by selecting an enemy unit and using the LOS tool to scan for FOBs
>People would snipe FOBs in every game minutes in
Then
>Eugene promises new VFXs for artillery
>Posts videos of the new VFX
>implement the update
>All artillery trails became invisible and impact explosions for some artillery like the buratino being completely invisible
>Absolute shit eaters can't decide if the lack of trails was intended or not, with most assuming the former and stating that it's "realistic"
One step forward ten steps back every single time. Everything post Oudinot is just falling apart and Eugene staff became increasingly more silent, which is a good thing considering any time they appeal to the Reddit crowd the game just gets fricking worse
Still sounds better than their relations with community in wargame times, they'd throw b***hfits for pointing out issues, lmao.
>Some moron on Reddit and their Discord whines about AA being shit
>AA being a giant pain in the ass due to units not firing on targets they have a clear visual on
>Other morons jump in and agree
>Eugene dev chimes in to say "ok guys, buffs will come in the next patch"
thanks for pointing this out this has been the story of this game man
the warno sub is pretty bleak but there are some good posts that point out a myriad of issues
>helicopter behavior being absolutely borked AKA suicide helis that cannot acquire targets or align weapons
>AA can never see its targets
>planes lose targeting all the time when they really shouldnt or dont drop bombs
>line of sight for every unit being really finnicky
but they never address the 'fundamental' issues they just like try to paper over it with an arbitrary AA buff like you gave the example of
Worst of fricking all is how the reddit crowd seems to HATE the fact that bombers, artillery, etc. do any fricking damage.
don't you remember ALB and RD where NATO test players got one of the two PACT test players banned from the game when he pointed out balance issues in alpha?
>its been weeks since the last meaningful balance patch
>Now all the unit prices have no relation to actual effectiveness;
My biggest frustration here is nothing is changed in a "big picture" manner.
>"Oh no we don't like the TTK".
>They do some HE changes which affects everything.
Nothing else is adjusted.
>"Hmmm infantry vs tank combat is too low TTK, time to increase infantry AT aim-time and reduce ammo"
>autocannons untouched
>IFVs and Autocannon tankspam annihilate infantry
>Huge nerf to infantry in practice, prices remain same, only buy tanks
Warno is basically a half finished stitched together mix of WRD and some of the worse aspects of SD2. Idk what's with Eugein and trying to shove the moronic ideas they had for SD when neither of the two games eclipsed WRD, it's like they hate anyone who likes this game with a passion
>the division system will stop players from playing the same meta crap
I spit on the meta and play 7th Panzer and 2nd UK infantry.
>muh meta
boring cringe shit, I play Czech national and Bri'ish national and have fun doing so
I got featured on the subreddit lmao
i only care if they introduce mapmaking tools like they promised even though they promised the same for sd2....
The reddit post got deleted LOL
??
?
i was a huge warno booster and have dumped a ton of hours into it but if eugen doesn't release like, a really big comprehensive balance and polish patch within 2-4 weeks i might be done with it. like big reworks of unit stats, unit costs, damage profiles, the works.
im legitimately pretty stunned at how eugen seems to (1) have competence issues (broken patches and broken balance, not just in the normal complaining way but for real - their last update broke all rocket and artillery trails); (2) have a vision for the game that is kind of bad for the game and less fun (much higher TTK gameplay for some reason and favoring spammy tactics)
it makes me feel like i've hitched my cart to a bad horse so to speak
they obviously could totally turn it around for me but i really need to see some progress here personally
Increasing TTK was a mistake and it's probably here to stay. A good chunk of players actually like the higher TTK. It's hard to describe, but there's definitely an insane level of patch whiplash.
>Infantry divisions performing as well as armored ones, to infantry now losing to tanks in CQC scenarios because launcher aim time is long enough where it's possible to stun and nuke infantry cohesion where they can never land a rocket again
>Infantry with 14AP or less being able to kill tanks in CQC with numbers to now being unable to put a dent in anything
>Howitzers were able to blast static tanks to now barely scratching them unless massed to ridiculous numbers
>Cluster planes goes from tank group deleter to maybe damaging a group of tanks before getting shot down by 6000 range AA
>Div variety became even more meaningless, with lobbies changing to everyone now playing 79th, 39th, UZ on Pact and 3rd, 5E, 5. Panzer on NATO
>Spam tactics are more viable now that the spam solutions are barely relevant
I'll never understand why people like the division system. It's the ultimate illusion of variety, especially when a handful of divs are so ass that nobody plays them. Even in SD2 you'd have infantry focused divisions with unique equipment in low numbers but then you have an armored division with as many medium tanks as you have infantry, with medium armor being king and it's the only shit people play. I have no faith in Eugene in fixing this if they couldn't get it right before. The way the Eugene devs are speaking when responding to community feedback makes it seem like a big patch is on the way but knowing Eugene it'll be a few tweaks before another month of total radio silence, or something breaking yet again for a week.
I actually sort of liked the division system in SD1. They felt more unique and since the scale was smaller you'd be more involved with the units. Also the phase availability and income was a balancing factor before they gutted it in SD2 leaving it a vestigial feature and making nobody happy.
The game is in a really odd place right now where the only viable strategies are spam and dumb rock-paper-scissors counters like rocket helis to kill infantry spam, planes are still kamikaze rockets to take out Command tanks or helis and crap like that. I love the way vehicle on vehicle conflict works at the moment, but HE needs to be buffed in the next patch or the game will continue to be a boring spamfest where the player with the most cards wins. The only reason I'm playing it instead of RD is that I'm even more tired of the repetitive bullshit you get every time you open MP, and the existence of Israel both in and out of game.
It also sucks that there are entire categories of units that you will essentially never use not because there's a better option, but just because they're just not compatible with the way the game has been BUILT. Having to skip BM-21s and aa-guns s the Soviets is sacrilege.
You have things like Eugene changing veterancy to no longer give accuracy bonuses and instead being for morale, but you still have the option to bring in things like elite veterancy planes that provide such a marginal change to the unit that it's completely pointless to even upvet them. It would make sense if planes actually took morale damage but the AA to plane interaction is either die in miliseconds or fricking off the map successfully. I'm not sure why they didn't make it unit specific or just remove it entirely. Everything is just so half assed and nothing is thoroughly adjusted when knee jerk changes are made as if they have not a clue how their game works so they're just winging it.
The most frustrating part is that they alredy got most things right at some time (obviously not all at same time, but still). For example, Oudinot was really close to being perfect regarding ground unit rock-paper-scissors balance, and while planes tended to be suicide bombers in it too, at least they did enough damage to be worth it in it.
I dont think Eugene even understands that Oudinot was nearly perfect core combat design and all that was needed was more units, countries, and normal general rebalancing of unit availability and costs. MAYBE at that patch a SLIGHT debuff to artillery accuracy / damage and plane damage was warranted.
Then instead they pulled huge nerf levers across the board to whole damage types and everything feels mushy and confused now and unit price / power / availability is totally borked and nonsensical.
Most cost-effective price-to-performance tank in the game for the B2? You can have 24 of them. The only plausible tank option for the division in the challenger 2 for 2nd infantry? You get, uh, 4. Also bomber planes largely dont do shit and artillery struggles to get any kills.
2nd Infantry literally feels like some frenchman revenge against the British, it’s such a horribly junky deck. Dire lack of stuff that you actually need, and it has nothing special to compensate.
I mean... that's probably what it is. The French are unironically that petty.
>2nd infantry
Some good players apparently think it's fine. But there's nothing good about it!
Forgot pic.
2nd infantry has one and precisely one trick up its sleeve which is the SAS. because the SAS has both solid AT and AA, and really far forward deploy, you can combine the SAS with the Fox autocannon recon unit to do very cheesy early game pushes.
The entire trick revolves around doing something very out of the box to cripple the opponents immediate early game, and then then playing your heart out to seal the deal over the course of the game with the inferior rest of your deck.
This strategy is completely unavailable to the median player of course because the skill floor to make anything of it is so high, and its basically an all-in.
The main point is that after that meme, everything the 2nd Infantry has to bring to bear is objectively underpowered or underavailable or overpriced compared to basically every other division
>British IFV's - not as good as other IFVs but too relatively expensive
>British Infantry - British Rifles are actually pretty great but besides that their units are all 5-10 points too expensive per
>British Armor - The only decent tank is the challenger 2 (because the other tanks have the reservist trait) but they only get maximum 6 of them at lowest vet
>British air - broadly british planes are the worst in the game lol (and too expensive)
To see an example of the SAS meme in action check out this video
tbh 2nd Infantry would be in a much better spot if they made mostly minor price and availability changes. Particularly if they gave Challengers like...2 more availability per card, or had some non-reservist alternative lighter tank like how 8th infantry gets the m60 which is solid.
You don't get enough cards in a deck to make upvetting worth it, period.
Upvetting tanks especially NATO is pretty standard and feasible.
Just play tactical 10v10 in wargame. It shows how important logistics is.
>WARNO is suddenly crashing after the last update
if im moronic/new and want fun games as a US division, what do i pick for warno?
3rd armored division is the murica frick year 40 IQ pick.
Gets all the murica frick ye units like F-15, Bradleys, undeadable Aybrahams tanks, apaches etc.
Haha 3rd armored is definitely the best Murica deck but I would say weirdly its actually a pretty finnicky division to play, because so much power is 'unlocked' behind relatively expensive units, particularly the Abrams line, and its other power units (Warthog, f-16, Apaches,) aren't cheap either
In my humble experience 3rd armored play is basically spamming bradleys (recon and IFV) early game and trying to trade decently well with the TOW-2's and the dismounted infantry, while you slowly build up a frick-you unstoppable mass of Abrams over the course of 20 minutes, which you then use as an unstoppable steel wall to crush your opponent.
The thing with 3rd Armored is that if you encounter a disaster early game (like you are up against an airborne division and your initial bradleys get killed by METIS squads in a town push or something) then you are really on the back foot all game and may not recover
I have the best success actually playing early game like how France plays, where you spam a shitload of Recon Bradleys (instead of the AMX recon tanks), and just try to get enough cheeky / annoying kills to force your opponent to the defensive while you just slowly accumulate enough good 'ol murican armor to crush them
Like with all other tank divs though, your biggest enemy will be 'well placed ATGM's'. I had a game last night where I really effectively beat off multiple 3rd armored pushes by just hoarding Konkurs teams and BMP-2's and never letting them get close enough. Throwing SU-25's at the issue helps a lot too lol
man I can't play 3rd armor for shit. if i buy tanks early game its too many points and im too thin elsewhere. if i dont buy points i am at super high risk of just getting rolled by cheap tanks. bradleys are cool but the infantry options are pretty mid. basically when i play 3rd armored i feel like the match is decided by the first 5 minutes and whether i got counterpicked or not.
man ANZAC as a faction is really weird, tons of Vietnam-era stuff that isn't even good. The Hong Kong singleplayer campaign is wild because of this. Time traveling Chinese tanks fighting walker bulldogs that should have been all scrapped by 1984
>Warno has not enough content or players and still feels unfinished with lots of buggy bullshit and weird balance
>Wargame doesn't have the QoL features that I can't live without anymore and the game / community is much sweatier and I get absolutely annihilated every match
My pain is severe
Have patience. Operations and army general will release sometime this year.
The biggest problem with RD is how much people fricking stack in team games. Back when I went hard with the game I'd have people continuously swap to my team whenever I swapped. Couldn't even avoid the stack if I tried.
Just don't get Steel Division 2, it has no soul.
i like it, but i liked steel division normandy 44 more.
I don't know if I'm moronic, but Steel Division 2 feels like they somehow got worse than 1.
SD1 is unplayable garbage dude, frick that game
every unit just gets immobilized and routed in 2 seconds
Anyone play FRAGO or any of the other gameplay mods?
Handful of skirmishes and digging it, heli rushes aren't as cheesy, pacing in general feels a bit better.
Why the frick do vehicles move so fast, seems like everyone is complaining about it and it just LOOKS weird to boot, tank columns Cannonball Run'ning their way to the front lines
I'm liking the Frago mod so far especially the replacement of satchel charges with grenade launchers. 16 max concurrent planes instead of 9, better rate of fire for rocket artillery, infantry engagements are more interesting, ATGMs are faster, anti-radar missiles match with anti air, vehicles move slower in forests, and artillery feels good.
Sneed it or keep it
Red Juggernaut took me 39 minutes and the AI moved its own CV out of the final zone at the end of the game, giving me the win when they would have been better staving off my tanks with Cobras and trying to hold the tree line.
I don't expect genius from the computer, but it should at least understand the mission's objectives and not do anything that would instantly lose the game. Even Chess bots know they can't move their King into mate.
The change log is just a price reshuffle and
>Comrade Commander, ve must defeat ze Americans and marche on Frankfurt honhonhon
Anyone else think the two Operations they released were pretty shit?
I'm not the biggest fan of the SD series but the Historical Battles in SD2 were way better than the two Warno Operations they released
For one thing the scale of these Operations was way, way too small, it doesn't feel like World War 3 at all, more like a minor skirmish between a handful of tanks. Second, they lacked any kind of interesting hook or scenario, it was literally just 'defend' and 'attack'. Third, even on Elite difficulty, they were way way too easy.
In general they felt like the kind of custom scenario a random teenager makes when learning the mapmaker lol
I beat Black Horse's Last Stand or whatever first try, just by putting out a few Abrams and hiding them in woods with some PIVADs to autoattack
Same with the Soviet one, I just helidropped the two towns at start and then massed a frick-you huge blob of t-80's and then Q-moved to win
Really pretty disappointing
yeah they were kinda shit. i agree scale way too small.
probably true
i didnt have this issue myself but not surprised
the eugen insistence on having a 'player level' kills their lobbies. because people see those levels and self-consciously stack. and if players join a lobby with a stacked team they will immediately leave. they should get rid of visible player levels in lobby or have a lobby option where people pick which divisions they want to play and they get assigned to random team.
well you'll be happy to hear the UK divisions are pretty decent now. not particularly good at anything besides SAS memes but not particularly bad at anything, except a fairly weak air tab. 15 point gun group + warrior milan = fun spam time.
They sure try to hype up 2 regular single player missions up so much, as if they weren’t just regular single missions.
Peak to me was Wargame Red Dragon campaigns.
Simpler compared to Steel Division but had enough battles and replayability in them that I think the only major thing missing from them was co-op.
I really liked that they limited your options and your losses and veterancy carried over through battles. I remember that in the 2nd Korean War I had this squadron of shitty ~50 points Etendards that otherwise barely see any use ever but those guys carried my game and by the end were all elites with dozens of kills including a ship or two.
Sort of made me yearn for some sort of roguelike mode where you slowly accumulate forces under your command as the world around you descends deeper into chaos of total war.
yeah, the wargame AI was pretty bad but i still had a lot of fun with those campaigns, even if sometimes they were practically tower defense missions lmao
Busan Pocket is of course iconic but I remember liking the Pearl of the Orient campaign
British Superheavies and air support vs. hordes of cheap chinese steel
Yeah, the campaigns were very often just you sitting on a point shooting ridiculous waves of enemies but due to how they worked it was fun because neither you or AI had all the tools at all times. Soviet campaign where you're basically stuck with shitty VDV and bunch of planes against a tidal wave of top tier Blufor gear made me savescum to extreme extent because losing a single ATGM meant total collapse of the defensive line. Planes were extremely powerful and important because anti-air was limited so you really had this feeling of establishing air supremacy by shooting down enemy jets and running SEAD. Sometimes it made sense to suffer some losses to take out enemy AA or superheavies or artillery because they wouldn't show up for the rest of the campaign.
Naval landings were cursed as frick but I liked that they posed a slightly different challenge.
Which soviet campaign?
I'm pretty sure they're talking about the Japanese campaign where you face hordes of Blue Dragon prototypes. I think the rationale is that you assault a tank school where all of the elite material of the JSDF is being kept.
You know you can just immediately spawn in the second aircraft carrier, buy a heli regiment from it, then destroy all the training regiments with helicopters because they don't have any AA?
The naval and airborne troops only have to fight junk, and by the time you hit the south island with all the american shit, assuming you're running on schedule, you'll have proper heavy armour and motorized regiments getting brought in.
Got banned in Bashar al Assad servers. Anyone know how to circumvent bans
thats what you get for saying "assad must go"
please, Eugen, give us a mapmaker like you promised (though you didnt give one to steel division 2)
No, the Eugen curse that we all must bear dictates that you will play on the same 5, same-looking maps for all eternity.
Eugen can't release a mapmaker because they don't have a plug-and-play mapmaker even internally, it's pretty obvious.
I like Eugen's games (in a masochistic way sometimes) but it's pretty obvious that their games are hopeless messes of spaghetti code and hard-coding and stitching together assets. It's probably a frustrating mess for them to make a map or adjust unit values or really do anything, because it's obvious how much of the programming is sort of improvised or rushed or forced through to 'get it to work' and put out content
They do not have a sophisticated, easy-to-use map-maker internally that they can release to the public, because they have not made one, unlike say Blizz built for Warcraft 3.
It's kind of a shame, if Mr. Eugene hadn't had that awful labor dispute due to mismanagement which caused 50% of their staff to quit after the release of SD1 then we may indeed have a much different Warno with enough manpower to have built in advance these kinds of tools.
But fact is Eugen was never a rich company so who knows if they could have even afforded to keep everyone on anyway, IDK
Wargame campaigns suck generally. I like SD 2 army general campaigns better but the era sucks and gets old real fast plus there isnt any satisfying oomfp and pop to the battles similar to wargame and explosions its like puff and boring shizzles
chuck taylor AKA frick haters
ive seen him in a few 10v10s. hes not bad
Bros I feel like such a fricking chump for getting into Warno, I feel like Eugen is going to shit the bed, the game is never going to sell well, and eventually they are going to shutter and I've wasted my time and my precious brainbanks by stuffing it full of useless knowledge like how to be good at Warno
Eugen keeps releasing busted patch after busted patch, the Operations were a complete joke and really underwhelming, basic mechanics and unit feel is still buggy or fricked up, they are so damn slow at releasing content, they keep fricking up unit balance (artillery is now useless. OK now AA is incredibly strong. Bombers dont work anymore.), I am just terrified this game is not gonna fricking sell and Eugen is not gonna fricking exist in 12 months
I really want to like this game but it looks obvious to me they are screwing the pooch. Eugen's whole unique thing is having big scale maps, big scale combat, lots of cool units, and vaguely historical units (or at least inspired by IRL to keep it interesting).
But in Warno they seem to bizarrely be focusing on smaller maps, smaller unit counts, unit costs too high, and then we're just doing a smaller scale WGRD babysitting the superheavy and if it dies then its GG
Like, how do they expect this game to even be a niche sleeper hit or success at this rate
The Operations were insanely underwhelmingf, like the Black Horse one is just spawn 2 - literally 2 - Abrams and have them shoot at a weak trickle of BMP's. What the frick
Where the frick is the scale. The action. The cool factor. It's all wrong man I feel like I bet on a losing horse here
Someone help
shouldve played steel division 2 instead
thats literally the same situation but even worse
>the thread is this slow
its over for us, eugenbros...
Red Dwagon
The truth is that PACT is much weaker than NATO. It's a shame because you won't enjoy the game. ( political correctness for 36 euros - the Eugen system). PACT has inaccurate AT missile systems, it's practically a miracle if they hit anything. They don't stand a chance against the USA or Germany in open area. Tanks... that's a joke xD PACT tanks are so inaccurate that sometimes one Abrams can destroy three or four PACT tanks T80. Of course to make it look cool the PACT tanks got AT missiles, but those missiles with sub 50% accuracy will hit absolutely nothing. PACT has much less helicopters available compared to NATO. PACT helicopters are more inaccurate and expensive.
so in short: the PACT army is absolutely inaccurate and incapable. NATO vehicles destroy PACT vehicles like on a shooting range. (because NATO vehicles and NATO missile vehicles have around 60-65% accuracy, where PACT barely achieves 50% accuracy). PACT has poor air support because NATO has three to four times as many helicopters. PACT AT infantry + vehicles is woefully inaccurate (around 50% accuracy), so it's almost useless, but NATO AT infantry has around 60-65% accuracy (NATO AT infantry can stop almost an entire column of PACT tanks).
What it means: when you play against AI and want a balanced fair game, you have to set PACT's AI to HARD/VERY HARD and NATO's AI to EASY/MEDIUM to make the game balanced omg. loool
I'm a NATOgay because like you say I like my ATGMs to actually hit, but PACT units are cheaper, come in larger card sizes, and the t-80+ line is competitive with the NATO heavies
On the IFV front, the best NATO IFV is obviously the Bradley but it's fricking expensive, not as cost-effective as the BMP-2. Marders are pretty good too but otherwise I'd say that PACT gets better IFV spam which is the name of the game tbh. Yeah PACT ATGMs hit less and have less PEN than NATO, but you get way more of them
Moreover PACT has objectively the best AA - the KUB is completely broken and can cover the entire map lol, and I'd say PACT plane options are pretty competitive. I don't see why you say that NATO has better air support when there's not really a big difference in the ASF options and PACT gets lots of good bomber and AT plane options too.
PACT a great mix of helicopters (including lots of the AA helicopters) while NATO really only has the Apache and the Cobras, and then just meme units like the Gazelle Cannon
Infantry is such a mixed bag it's hard to say one side is overall better than the other, but PACT decks often have really good cost-effective infantry options. Motostrelki and Mot Schutzen are whatever but those OP anti-tank squads and Spetsnaz line are strong as hell
Top ranked players still consider 39th and 79th top-tier divisions. Overall I think the problem isn't PACT versus NATO so much as that it's that there aren't enough PACT divisions in the game lol. When the choice is between 39th / 79th (good divisions) and then East Germany as really the only other pick, it gets boring pretty quick
But I play lots of 3rd Armored so I cannot be trusted
Different playstyle, I recently had a pretty cool game playing as DDR tank division and absolutely BTFO'd a West German tank division + he was getting support from his allies Longbows and ayybraps, (which were the only reason I didn't steamroll into their spawn). Keep in mind DDR tanks are absolutely garbage compared to Leo2A4. However 3 stock T-72 will easily beat a Leo2A4 while costing the same amount. They depend on numbers to get close to the enemy, which means their guns do more damage and they're more likely to hit, thus negating the quality advantage. Cheap tank spam absolutely dominate forest fights aswell.
>Cheap tank spam absolutely dominate forest fights aswell.
for me it's a line infantry and flamethrower mix for forest fights.
Player skill and APM will always be the deciding factor, but I think that the game itself is biased in favor of NATO.
Repairs are ridiculously fast, which negates the advantages of having more cards of less-well armoured tanks. The only tanks that can go toe-to-toe with NATOs best are extremely limited in availability. And to add insult to injury pretty there are more NATO decks with superheavies than without them. Having more tank cards is only effective if you are rushing, which really cheapens the experience in my opinion.
ATGM vehicles like the SHTURM and SPW Konkurs are even more useless than they are in WG.
The HE nerf hurts Pact more than it does NATO because of how artillery dependant the Red Army was and how important barrages were to their doctrine. atm artillery is only good for smoke and sniping weapons teams, witht the exception of the Uragan you can't trust it to reliably remove enemy infantry, especially from cover with how quickly they can zip from building to building. Suppression and stunning is practically just there for show because of how even the very best artillery has ridiculous dispersion and splash damage, meaning you will rarely if ever actually kill an entire squad with arty alone. Rocket artillery needs to be reworked from the ground up. Grads are neutered because their stupid long flight time and dispersion means they can only pepper , leaving 20 spread-out craters at random instead of actually killing anything. I can't image they playtested them beyond taking some screenshots for a TOOSER. Smerchs are also useless because of flight time and dispersion, by the time they land your enemy is already scooting away. You might get lucky and get a glancing hit on a tank or supply truck, but Eugen's obsession with making killing anything as tedious as possible means you rarely put them out of action. Top shelf cluster artillery NEEDS to be an instant delete button because of how easy it is to repair vehicles in this game.
Controlling fewer units is inherently easier anyway.
Finally, despite people asking for Eugen to fix them since they released EE, helicopters are still unrealistic and fly in a way that negates their combat potential. The current heli movement where they get in range, stop, align and THEN fire off their rocket is not how Pact helicopters should fly. It makes perfect sense for a hovering missile platform like the Apache when it's launching Hellfire missiles at Toyotas halfway across Afghanistan, but a Hind flying over the Fulda Gap is performing the same role as a Tornado or A-10: fly low, fire rockets at everything that moves, circle around, fire everything still in the tube then deploy countermeasures and hope you make it back alive. It shouldn't be that hard to give them the same attack pattern as an Su-25, but instead they just eat stingers to the face and spin around.
The current ridiculous meta of NATO players parking their squads of Abrams and Leo 2A4s in open fields with some AA and a repair truck, knowing that they're going to be able to wipe out anything that comes their way and just drive their way out of any clusters really embodies the fundamental inferiority of Pact in the game. As it stands WARNO is a ridiculous game.
Players who want a truly good cold war wargame play flashpoint campaigns. WRD is unrealistic but it's a well designed and game. Warno is for kids who want pretty graphics.
They're probably too conscious of the criticism helicopters get. If helis are good in any way someone will spam them and hordes of new players will reeee about "helicopter are broken" and that "the game is a joke you need to fix this immediately!" so I think they just leave helicopters in a shitty state for this reason.
Planes also keep getting nerfed but I think it's the pro players reeeing about them because they want to micro tanks all day and get upset when someone reminds them this game has air units so now planes are shit too barring the very most meta ones like A-10, Su25 and dive-bombers.
>Planes also keep getting nerfed but I think it's the pro players reeeing about them
This is spot on. The small but extremely vocal Warno community who are in the top 50 ranked and post constantly in the WarYes and Eugen official Discord and are like Wormtongue in Eugen's ear have a vision for the game that is antithetical to an actually fun multiplayer experience.
Because they are such sweats and are so good, all they want is to maximize their personal skill expression, AKA buff everything they like to do and nerf everything that counters it.
What does this mean in reality? It means that they cry about good artillery and planes, and essentially want the game to boil down to superheavy and smoke micro 24/7 because that's what they can do to always win. They want small numbers of super expensive units that they can dunk on people with.
What would actually be good for the game? Warno would be better with larger maps, cheaper+more units, and lower time to kill / more lethal engagements (incl. planes and artillery).
>It's a more fun spectacle
>More units means less crippling to lose each one
>Easier and more fun to do q-moving batches of units across a bigger map than superheavy smoke-and-reverse micro in one treeline for 10 minutes
>More room to maneuver and hide means artillery can be good without being oppressive
>More units on the field is an implicit nerf to bombers so bombers can be fun again
Yes, what I am basically describing is at least a step towards WGRD. WGRD isnt objectively better than Warno in every way, but in terms of 'scale' it is better, INCLUDING and especially for noobier players.
It sounds counter-intuitive but 'sending out infantry and tanks across a big map' is actually easier and more fun and rewarding for a noob than 'microing the shit out of 1 M1A2 and losing if it dies'
>They're probably too conscious of the criticism helis get.
This is true and I do feel for them because Heli spam is a real thing and it's a hard line to walk.
What normal casual players in these games want to do is have lots of cool units getting in big tank battles and big infantry city fights and calling in huge artillery barrages killing like 20 T-72's and a sick bomber that annihilates a town square. That's fun and it's cool and you can't get that anywhere else.
And it plays into the biggest strength that the WG/Warno series has. Namely, cool historical units semi-realistically modeled, big scale and zoom. That's the differentiator with this game, and they need to play INTO it NOT tamp it down.
Normal casual players do NOT have fun jumping between one of their only 5 infantry squads across the whole map to get off the satchel charge micro to kill the 1v1 infantry engagement in a forest and trying to keep them alive while reversing/smoking/popping out with a single tank to kill two T-72's (if he loses the tank its GG), and having artillery that does no damage + gets no kills, and planes that do half damage to a single BMP.
I am genuinely worried Eugen has lost the plot on Warno, don't realize why WGRD had a cross-over appeal (hint: it was Big Bombastic Fun), and are paradoxically killing the noob-and-casual-friendly-fun by 'trying' to make the game 'easier' or less 'punishing' by reducing scale, reducing TTK, and reducing unit numbers.
It is just made worse by the fact that the "PRO" players are encouraging this because they are so invested in winning in the current state they can't conceptualize what it would be like for a normal RTS player to sit down with this game. They can't imagine like, 3 normal guys booting up a 3v3 and wanting to do a big tank rush or something and laughing and having fun.
Thankfully though, Eugen can make this happen. It is a completely doable future vision for the game that they can steadily move towards.
>All new maps are like 33-50% bigger. No need to get rid of the smaller ones, but going forward go for a bigger size. Something like a 20% bigger 4v4 Vertigo with more room to maneuver around the sides of the map as a 1v1 map size would be perfect.
>Reduce unit prices by like 33-50% and increase card size commensurately
>Revert to something like old artillery and bombers
>Increase unit lethality generally, but particularly infantry vs infantry lethality (they are no fun to use right now) and as a balance change infantry vs. tanks in forests as well
>Add more fun unit choices within divisions and of course in addition to new divisions (Without going full RD stupid prototype mode, more unit choices would be better as today divisional deckbuilding feels same-y)
And then do balance and polish around that. That should be the 'vision'. Big. Bombastic. Fun.
I already posted Too Much so I'll just cap this off.
>What was the reason so many of us and so many people over the last decade had so much fun with WGRD, which is objectively Eugen's best selling and most successful game?
Big ass maps. The meme potential. Shit like the Reddit vs. Ganker 10v10 tournament with huge 50-tank-strong pushes across the top of the map. Gigantic artillery barrages. Killing 20 tanks with a m270 ATACMS and going OHHHHHHHHHH. Having the type of game where you and two of your friends, all of whom are bad at the game, can casually hop into a 3v3 and do meme strats with heli-drops behind enemy lines and oh god it didn't work they called in 20 Gepards and spamming T-34's and oh frick hahahaha oh man that was fun haha.
>What stopped people from getting into WGRD?
Honestly, the number one thing was the completely ass controls for controlling that many units easily and lack of a good UI. It was really tough for people to even get used to fast-moving and unloading their units at match start and visualizing Recon and Line of Sight and even just getting through the Busan Pocket campaign. I know because I've tried to get people into the game and it really was a pain in the ass hurdle for them. They were like I dunno man.
The number two and three things were a merely OK single player and basically being scared of deck building / MP because it was so huge.
Eugen has already made huge improvements across these dimensions! The LoS tool and the Unload at Location and the unit order lines, etc., are a HUGE improvement. Army General will *hopefully* be really fun. Divisions simplify the deckbuilding.
Eugen has the raw material already to make this huge. They just need to EMBRACE. FUN.
That's it that's my piece. I'm feeling bad abt this right now because I'm worried Warno won't sell and then it will die and Eugen will die and we will never get peak WGRD back and there's no real game that fits into this space as well.
So IDK. send this to Eugen.
I completely agree that artillery in warno is fricked right now, it's a mess. On one hand non-mortar artillery is quite expensive, on the other hand it does too little damage. They need to pick a lane. Either its weaker and its cheaper or its more expensive and its more lethal.
The complicating factor IMO is that because the maps in Warno are so much smaller and so much more 'arena like' than WGRD, artillery has the potential to be really annoying and oppressive and spammy. In most of the 1v1 maps you literally *know* that there are about 3 forests that the opponent *will* have units in on any given map, and there's no real room to maneuver around them.
Because of that, artillery has to be simultaneously weak, expensive, and rare, which does not feel fun. Some howitzers are just not worth taking ever. But, get the M270 as 3rd Armored and even if each rocket feels individually too weak, you are just getting so much free value by just lobbing rockets into any of the spots you just know the opponent is (even without Recon)
Finally big important point, I think Eugen has made a mistake by going
>Smaller Scale
>Fewer Units
>Less Lethal
Or at least they have gone too far in this direction. Compared to its current state, they need to introduce
>Bigger Maps
>Cheaper + more units
>Higher lethality
Also completely agree helicopters are moronic right now and lose LoS way too easily and then suicide fly way too close into targets and die. Unless you use them as a 'flying atgm team' (Apache) or as 'cheap suicide spam' (gazelle cannon) then you're gonna have a bad time outside of a few 'stars align' situations
Common fallacy. Sometimes but not necessarily true. Fewer units means each individual unit is more important. That actually incentivizes / rewards 'sweat micro' type play where you micromanage the shit out of one frick-you strong superheavy, etc. I actually think as above the game has too much emphasis on very small unit count micro.
For this reason I like to either play on map sizes one step larger than devs recommend, or reduce income rates a bit. Gives a bit more room for manouver warfare.
>on the other hand it does too little damage
It can do decent damage, but the morale and shock affects are what you want it for. If you engage with your direct fire troops as the arty is hitting it can be a very one sided fight. Also I don't recognise what you said about helis at all. Rocket choppers especially are very useful and can put the kibosh on anything squishy and are excellent at harrassing anything tougher.
idk, you Red Dragon dorks all sound very bad at combined arms.
Did you just admit you struggle against the AI? In public? In front of everyone here? How embarrassing.
I'm top 100 on the ranked 1v1
My comment on rocket helis are that their target acquisition / aligning / firing patterns are a known issue right now largely due to LoS issues. this is especially apparent in towns.
Rocket helis are of course good if you have clear LoS and no AA in the area for them to slowly and ploddingly acquire and fire. But they have bad movement target acquisition and firing. Their behavior with actually right-clicking a target is a problem too. Due to LoS, if they lose target, their behavior is to fly directly at the target (usually to right overhead) where they will be stunned and killed by small arms fire.
It's a known issue Eugen has said they are looking at.
Never said they aren't worth bringing just that it's better to put your helicopters at about their maximum range and let them sit and fire at what they can, especially in or around towns, rather than try and strafe or move them around much.
It's kind of obvious that anyone capable of designing a good map walked out on Eugen. Every map from SD2 and onwards is just a bland meeting engagement where you squabble over the centre for 40 minutes.
Few have PCs that can run 10v10
>ATGM vehicles like the SHTURM and SPW Konkurs are even more useless than they are in WG.
I never understood why they seem so bent on keeping this the case. If they maybe could make it so there's a delay on when they're revealed after firing or give the units being fired at penalties to spotting/accuracy when attacked by previously invisible ATGM carrier.
Or just give them more range or something. It's just so counterintuitive that the designated ambush vehicle can't even really get one shot off in most cases because the enemy crosses the range advantage before the missile hits and just lightly taps the vehicle with their main cannon.
Just got WARNO.
What am I in for?
What did I think about it?
Did I like it?
Those last two questions you ought to be able to answer, anon.
CMCW
I love how supply is handled and think wargame would be more fun if it was just CM on larger scale
i do not understand half of graviteams mechanics so i will refrain from recommending it despite graviteam being the closest concept, though bush war and chink-vatnik border conflict dlc is based and shorts pilled