I've noticed lately that everyone i know locally and online has dropped GW products. Not out of some major scandal or outrage, or even some agreed boycott or something. Just over the last few months one by one they've just stopped playing, talking about it, they are just kind of done with it.
It ranges from model fomo ramping up with models going from being around for 20 years to 20 months to strange cadence of rulebook releases and army updates to following the hasbro route of trying to ultra normify their games while trying to make them a "t-sport" and treat them like a live service pvp videogame.
Is it just too many little things at once burning people out? Its definitely more than anecdotal because the late 40's "warhammer dads" that are upset people aren't being grovelling and positive to their god-brand are getting a bit irrational like they think they are fighting some foreverwar for the brand they have the most time and money in. Even more than usual which if i had to have any frame of reference feels like modern WoW addicts not being able to deal with the people they used to play with moving on. Right down to the "uhhh its lockdown and the 'rona effecting my brand idol in a way every other company managed to dodge" copium.
But in this case it doesn't seem like people moving on to any other miniatures game. It just seems GW is exhausting people with an impression constant time and monetary upkeep is required in a way thats burning people out of tabletop entirely.
Have you noticed any major burnout?
A telling metric is the "content" creator numbers and the algorithm favoring other games more and more.
There seems to be a slight slip, and many of the medium sized players seem to be posting about sidegames now.
I've noticed even the most diehard youtube shills seem to be focussing way more on Necromunda than 40K or AoS nowadays.
Which hey to be fair the rules are a nightmare but its still the best game they run.
If the rules of a game are a nightmare how the frick is it the best game.
A game, by definition, is defined by the rules. Its how you fricking play.
GWs best current games are, in order
> AT
> MESBG
> somehow, fricking warcry
The rest are all irredeemable shit, the best one is incredibly niche, and the rest are fantasy related (so sorry if you want syfy)
This is the singular truth consoomer types seem to have some mental feedback loop over: the rules are not handed down by god almighty and set in stone. If the minis are good, the fluff engaging and it supports /yourdudes/ people will houserules any issues.
In trpg terms its way more call of cthulhus "once you own the rules they are yours to customise as you see fit" versus dungeons and dragons "we are treating this like a videogame and you need to keep up with all the hotfixes and patches or you are denied service".
They why the frick am I playing if I have to essentially do the work myself.
It's what homosexuals like YOU don't seem to understand:
When I am paying for your premium priced shit, I want it to work. I want a fun, balanced game I don't have to WORK to make fair, or WORK to avoid constant jank. It's part of why I'm paying g for the product and not just making my own.
You want to make your own shit up? Fine. Have at it. I dont have the time. I'm paying this company so their FULL TIME rules writers can design this.
If you aregoing to market the product as a finished game, it should be a finished game.
TTRPGs like that homosexual shit you reference?
You need the book. You need paper. That's literally it.
Wargames? I need models, I need terrain, I need a board. I have to buy, assemble and paint all this shit JUST to play. But I now also must apparently work to fix the stupid broken shit because 'well LOL you OWN it!!!'
Frick off and die.
>GW
>quality product
Yeah, about that...
This addresses literally zero of the points I raise.
I dont accept your concession.
I spit in your fricking face.
> consooomer attitude
How is it a consumer attitude to want to get what you paid for. If the car you bought doesn't work, you would want money back. The food you bought spoils before the date? You want money back.
Pay to see a movie and they don't play it? You want your money back.
Why is this a hard concept to understand? It's some cucked attitude of 'oh well I guess I'm lucky to have it!!!' FRICK that b***h tier attitude. Literally the attitude of a whipped dog.
Found the primaris paypig.
okay loregay
diff anon.
you're right generally.
The cost of GW is not balanced by the quality of their plastics and definitely not their resin relative to the game itself
you are both correct and forgetting what board you're on
dogshit rules is why I backpedalled out of 40k after trying it ONCE, still got some models that I should probably sell
So then if a rulebook comes out that invalidates or breaks your dollies imaginary rules do you bend over and present while buying an entirely new one?
You realise how much of a massive corporate dicksucker you sound like right? Just go watch a marvel movie if you want a static, designed by committee formula for sustained mediocrity.
marvel as a critic is not a valid post chud
yes it is
Once again this answers ZERO points raised; not surprised you seem to be on the spectrum.
The issue is selling g a working game system I DONT HAVE TO FIX MYSELF.
GW later changing the rules has LITERALLY ZERO EFFECT on the system I ORIGINALLY PAID FOR.
They change the rules? I can still use the unbroken product I originally paid money for. The issue is there is never even an unbroken product to begin with.
>GW later changing the rules has LITERALLY ZERO EFFECT on the system I ORIGINALLY PAID FOR.
First edition huh?
No you stupid reductionist homosexual.
GW sells me 40k 3rd edition. It's core rules, and codex, are not so fundamentally broken I basically have to house rule the game. I'm happy.
They release 4th. I can CHOOSE to pay for 4th, once again assuming g they are selling a working system.
However, I don't have to use it. The 3rd edition system, which I paid for, still works. I can continue to use it
>Editions remain static with no significant changes in the years said edition occurs.
Yeah you've been around for years clearly. That 9th edition core rules and points booklets will last you forever.
> WHOOOSH as the point flies over anons head
Definitely paid by the hour.
YEah good luck finding a game of your old edition when everyone else is using their new rules and units, which for most armies repositions them on the powerscale due to the timed power creep.
>"yeah bro just play this old edition with half of the shit you paid for and all your rules gone, do this for me stranger"
That slope in your skull allows the point extra clearance I suppose.
There's these things called "Friends". If you play games with these so-called "Friends", you can play whatever the frick you want instead of having to deal with total ass strangers and their feelings and opinions.
With "Friends", you can play the current rules, old rules, or play another game completely using the same miniatures.
With those things called friends sitting in a room alone with nothing to do is "fun."
It's why we dont use "what you can get away with friends" as a good metric for quality for things.
Why even buy any rules or models at all? With friends you can just play formless pretend!
Computer games are free, what are you talking about?
You sound like a massive homosexual, making excuses for badly designed product.
>They why the frick am I playing if I have to essentially do the work myself
It's hobby my guy, you gotta put effort into it. What are you going to complain that you have to paint and assemble the models next? Go back to videogames
Because assembling, painting, then creating the board apparently isn't enough.
No no, you got to roll over for the only other thing the company sells (which also gives them the greatest margin fyi); fix it yourself!!!
100% cucked attitude. GW isn't the only game in town, as well as the fact that the rules, broken as they are, are available for free on the web.
If they aren't going to give me a working product, I'm not paying them (either playing a game with working rules or pirating).
Simple as.
I boggled my mind that corporate homosexuals like you, who would never accept a broken product in literally any other aspect of your lives, seem to be too happy to roll over and take it up the ass from the store selling you your hobby.
Guess what homosexual? They arent your friend. You dont owe them anything. You are literally a cash source and nothing else. Why treat then like 'no no, cirporation is my friend! I'll fix your thing, that I paid for!!!'
This is the attitude of ~~*men*~~ who watch other men frick their wives
>bragging that you use wahapedia
Do, do you actually play games anon? Literally everyone does this, people just buy the books if they want the books.
True. The constant ‘balance datasheets’ are a real concern. If you can’t balance something like Kill Team then there’s something badly wrong with your rules model.
>They why the frick am I playing if I have to essentially do the work myself
Stopped reading there. You know the company you're fellating used to be called Games WORKSHOP for a reason.
With brain dead reasoning like that I'm glad you don't engage further you have literally nothing to add to the conversation, and I suspect, society in general.
Don't worry, I tip 15 to 20 percent when I am forced to deal with menials like yourself; just don't speak too much and go away promptly once you take my order.
There are several games with better rules out there, why aren't you playing those? Since second ed you creatures have screamed into the void about how shitty gw rules are, yet you insist on playing and you refuse to make your own rules or use house rules, it's fricking moronic. The novelty of warhammer has worn off for you so please go back to star wars or video games so gw can crash and start making products that aren't for half interested tournament homosexuals.
> Whooosh goes the point as it flies over anons head
The point was never about 'well why don't you play something else.' That's in fact a straw man that answers zero of the points raised.
The points raised were that it is not reasonable to pay GW prices for their product, a game, which needs working rules to even fulfill its fricking function, and then, even after paying their premium prices, be told that you should be expected to fix the rules to make it a balanced, working game.
I play plenty of other games than mainline GW shit. Plenty of people do. That doesn't change the issue. It doesn't excuse the company. It doesn't excuse the shitty product. Finally, it is bizarre that some fricking mouth breather, like (You), called me a consOOmer!!!! Because I WANT to hold the company accountable for expecting me, the customer, to fix their shit product.
That's literally the OPPOSITE of a conSOOMer. ConsOOmers are homosexuals, once again like (You), who pay for broken product and say how happy you are to either wallow in its incompetence, and how others should 'just be happy they have it' and EXPECT to spend MORE time and effort fixing the broken thing they paid for price for.
TL;DR, take my order and shut the frick up.
If that's the case then the market decides what's reasonable and it sells like hot cakes; the end. And unfortunately for you the market doesn't give a shit about the rules.
Oberoni Fallacy
Oberoni my dickoni gay
he's not saying the rules are without fault because they can be fixed
he's saying some people would rather houserule some things in a game that they find appealing for non-rules reasons than play something else with less houseruling needed
since this acknowledges the need to houserule without commenting on the quality of the rules it does not commit the fallacy
Anon, even DnD isn't that strict. The decades of homebrewing should have tipped you off, as should a number of designers who have worked on it make it a point that
>What the GM says goes
>The goal is for everyone to be having fun
>What the GM says goes
That's been true since the very first edition. Not sure how people don't get it.
>go to 40k GT
>people playing harlequins win ~70% of their games
>haha bro just houserule the problem like haha nobody’s perfect also please spend another $200 to stay competitive
I miss the days when people had to be at least 100IQ to get onto the internet and we didn’t have to deal with 80IQ GW fan tards like you.
putting aside the absurdity of buying a game where the rules are so bad you need to make up your own:
40k et al are competitive games. your victory happens when the other player(s) lose and vice versa. how the frick are you going to convince people that your house rules are preferable to just playing the game as-is
maybe you can get a few people on board (not that difficult since GW balance is notoriously awful). you're not going to get the local GW sponsored tournament to do it. and they have much better marketing and a cash prize.
you've limited yourself to playing a game wrong with a few other people who've agreed upon the same wrong version as you. there's nothing wrong with that and it's probably more fun than playing correctly. but at that time and money investment, why not play something good instead?
>you're not going to get the local GW sponsored tournament to do it
The entire international tournament system runs on house rules and gets support from GW
Paypigs doing it for freeeee
Confirmed for never having played a game let alone a tournament game in your fricking life. back to Ganker secondary.
Adeptus Titanicus, despite being the best game, is not played enough and due to be squatted fairly soon.
The prices are incredible, I just looked it up and if you didn't know you would think that those were large scale kits not tiny little toys
This is what kept me out of that game. I'm not paying that much money for that little of a kit. I'm considering the possibility of 3d printing it now that I'm part of that hobby, but don't the minis also require some kind of thick card board data sheet? So even if i print playing would be a pain and the fact I printed very transparent.
Just buy models and play one of the versions of Epic. We've got a ~50 person group playing Net Epic Armageddon regularly in the Boston to Hartford corridor, and I can't imagine that's the only or biggest epic group around. The rules are better than anything GW has put out in decades, since it took a solid ruleset and made minor tweaks/answered FAQs.
Underworlds is a good ruleset that's hampered by its release schedule and power creep. But it's a fun game with solid rules.
Shhh don't let them know
Kill Team is the best GW game right now.
The LoS rules for KT are garbage though, namely the "Oh you are out in the open? But you are 2 inches away from an obscuring terrain. Tough shit!"
May Allah forgive me for saying this, I hope it continues to get errata'd.
Launch KT was a mess and launch lists are still messy, but the core of the game is very strong, I wouldn't believe it was a modern GW design if I didn't get gouged for the starter.
Sadly munda is a fricking trainwreck so bad that you're better off playing the original for free.
Yeah. With any hope they'll simplify LoS and Obscurement to be one rule rather than two separate concepts. Having it be two separate concepts turns a lot of people off.
>GW are losing traction!!!!
>its just people playing other GW games
how is this a win? Its what GW wants you still arent playing other non GW products
That's not what I said, nor do I play any GW games.
How many concussions are you on right now tard-bro?
Thing is that their main money-makers are 40K and AoS. The MAIN GAMES. Not gaiden games like Necromunda.
They want you to buy a lot of models while games like Necromunda do not require you to have a lot of them.
>many of the medium sized players seem to be posting about sidegames now.
What about the really fat ones?
>Have you noticed any major burnout?
No, I've only noticed you and your ilk posting the usual sad attempts at demoralization
>I feel demoralised because you said some people don't like my dollies
Pathetic
>raise prices
>put less dudes in box
>raise prices
>cringe social media
>cringe warhammer plus
>you will not be missed
>shit on the story
>release schedule is slower than random dudes on kickstarter
frick GW
So, with the exception of "Warhammer plus" which - does not matter at all to the game and the plastic products and your culture war vapid bullshit which matters only to terminally online morons - G.W is failing because of shit its been doing for forever? I started with G.W back in 4th edition 40k and people whinged about all of those things. I would say you could make a death by a thousand cuts argument but the numbers don't align with that. Also let it be known the release schedule was FAR AND AWAY, slower than it is now.
We always moaned about the price anon but you could still fundamentally just suck it up and still afford it, now it is literally unaffordable heading into a very difficult and uncertain time with no way of attracting young boys into it who would one day become paypigs
Funnily enough in Australia the necromunda gang boxes are $74 and Hive War set is $250, I can get gang boxes delivered via Amazon for $50 and Hive War for $170, GW is absolutely assfricking Aus and NZ (whose prices are even worse).
I think their future is in well written skirmish games because that’s what I see at my local club. Shame that their ability to write a good skirmish game seems to be going backwards.
>culture war shit does not matter
no actually part of the culture war shit is brand building on GW's part actually. They product high quality miniatures and care about the right thingsm consoome
>failing because it's always done that
What the frick are you talking about? back when we started games were cheaper to get into even when considering blister packs. many things contribute to this, 1500 points was the standard, points were different, the army books were slimmer with like 8 units per faction+ starting at 3 and expanding after that so there was simply less to waste money on. you could also get better deals with the box sets, 20 man guard boxes for what 30 usd? then it became 10 man for the same now what 60 because 1 extra sprue? before the start collecting the best entry were the battleforces that were pretty alright if i remember correctly.
Furthermore many products were in metal and the relative cost of white metal is much higher than that of plastic, metal moulds have more maintenance costs. when gw switched over, they kept the price and the model count pocketing the profits, they've since seen they can get away with this, and that they can sell their product pegged to inflation rather than wage growth
add the constant rules changes and you have it
When an IP sees a massive increase in interest and success, it can go two ways:
>Try to soldier on not expanding too much, let many that are superficially interested wash off but gain new hardcore fans and strengthen the product and relations with faithful consumers. This is the "long term quality" route.
>Gather reinforcements, think tank how to shit out the most amout of content possible through all mediums and platforms, see massive increase in revenue but weaken your brand and your product significantly, and gain non-loyal followers. This is the "greed greed greed today but misery tomorrow" route.
GW chose the greedy route and now the interest bubble is bursting. Unlike the other approach, they cannot make a single product that will entice former "fans" to keep consooming because they've seen it all already. No matter how good or bad the product is.
The cracks are showing, you can only hype the brand so much and you can only make so many products for so much time. After that it all gets stale, and no matter how good the individual product is, it all gets stained by the atmosphere of staleness. I'm glad I sold my shares in '21
>t. GW investor and ex-shareholder
It's funny but I think you might actually be right. I got into the hobby in 2007 with Orks, and frankly I haven't played a game in over two years. I haven't bought any of the new Ork releases over that period of time, and there's been a lot. And I think it's just that: there's been a lot of releases. They just all blend together. I remember when the new Battlewagon and Trukk kits came out and I was HYPED, they were amazing, now I see a new Deffkopta or buggy and think "Huh, that's cool I guess" but I don't buy them. More releases seems to have paradoxically killed the hype.
Remember the old prototype wagons in the chambers shitfest codex?
Yeah that was huge to me when we got those, and the koptas, and the lootamobz.
Nothing since has been terribly interesting.
SAVAGE ORC BUT WITH STICK BRO PREORDER NOW ONLY 34.99!
WE GOT RID OF THAT PESKY NOB BOX TOO BUY LESS FOR THREE TIMES AS MUCH!
Top fricking zozzle.
GW is pricing literal children out of their main games and forcing them to be secondaries. In 2012 you could buy Black Reach halves of Orks or Marines for fairly cheap and have a force that was okay in casual play. Nowadays its bundles of shit you don't want or 50 bucks a box.
Zoomies cant buy GW because $50 for a box of dudes is like 10 donations to their favorite streamer to say their name
I split 3 boxes of black reach with a buddy with allowance as a laddo. Painted one box bought another until we had nice starter armies, and the shit you got in that and macragge were good.
Did the same scheme with skull pass boxes with the same dude, I was swimming in orc/ks for fricking pennies on the dollar.
Added a wienerload of burnas a nobsquad and two trukks and I had an army that actually stomped shit at my league.
For like 300 bucks I had 3k points.
Almost impossible today unless you're a printgay and that filters all but the most autistic kids.
What if there was a wargame that sold you a single book a year, with all of that year's stuff in it?
Included within, access to that year's selection of STLs and the models for every army.
The majority of new content between editions being new player-driven lore, campaign rules, scenarios, expansions to factions, new factions, and commissioned STLS for terrain and models.
Maybe once per edition drop a single supplement for any sidegames like skirmish and narrative warband stuff.
Would that be more attractive?
Yeah, ‘what if’.
I meant something with a little bit more to it than a very basic skirmish game.
I think the time is ripe for a wargame with free rules supported by STL sales and ‘deluxe’ limited edition hardbacks signed by the author.
As a matter of fact I have been working on something like this for a couple of years. Stay tuned.
How's that going to work?
Say it's a little like 40K
I need fifty marines with bolters so I buy one marine with bolter model, once.
I need five marines with plasma cannons, so I buy one, once.
Can I only buy them as sets, 5/10 dudes per set in unique poses?
To customise are you expecting that I'm going to buy dude with beaky helm, dude with targetting optic, bald dude, dude with hair? Dude with bent arm, dude with straight arm, dude pointing?
How many people are going to buy commander dude with fancy cape and slightly longer sword (unless they have to have him as a command unit) for a premium price?
What is the price point?
This doesn't seem to have the advantage that GW has, of their being official models, that people can't quite so easily reproduce to the same standard with their home printing or casting. Here the official models are all going to be dependent upon the printer device and the printing skills of the owner. The GW look and style was established before easy reproduction, but you're coming in new and 3rd party units are guaranteed to be acceptable for anyone who doesn't have to have the model look exactly like in the rulebook. How will that affect things?
There wouldn’t be official models. The idea is to have a setting where few if any of the models are available (because original setting) so people can buy and print ‘official’ models but they can also use whatever the frick they like.
It’s not intended to be a GW killer or to pay for my insulin, just a hobby project that might do a little better than cover it’s costs and pass the savings on to the gamer.
Right, the line
>>>free rules supported by STL sales
confused me on there being official models since the support by STL sales means they came from the same person as the rules, ie official even if not essential. Supporting free rules with sales of STLs doesn't seem to at all contradict the plan that
>few if any of the models are available
>You don't "buy" anything but the yearly book.
What book? The rules are free. You're going to charge for updates?
>traditional sectioned sprues that you can chop up how you like
If you're printing, you wouldn't have sprues. You'd have a bunch of individual pieces that might need to be supported and oriented for printing but you'd wouldn't expect anyone to print off a whole sprue for one arm. If you were relying upon the sprue to act as a support during printing, not a great way to do it. Waste of material and time.
Thanks for the replies. Look forward to seeing what you release since I'm sure you'll announce n Ganker when it's ready.
I'm this guy.
The only thing to sell is the book in my model, I'm not confident in patreon and such but if I went that route I suppose the book would be collector item with the commisioned alts.
It's just me and two other guys but we are plugging away.
well what's your mechanics bud?
sell us on it.
We have two prototypes right now and they are early but it is an ongoing deployment (segmented) alternating activation game. It centers around morale "damage" more than lethality, making tabling difficult and an AP system that allows for more fluid action economy and movement.
Stuff is durable and the focus is objective play and narrative campaign, so the factions (of which there are 5 and the 6th is on the messboard now) are pretty wildly different in play, being that units arent expected to haymaker all in eachother from turn 1.
It's a scifi alt-history setting where the world was engulfed by an alien structure in 197X.
It is hundreds of years later and the shells fake skies weather control and systems are failing.
Areas cloaked in permanent night, others in radioactive storms, the machine bleeds into the sea poisoning and mutating wildlife, ancient-alien spacers are forced upwards as agartha collapses from the pillar bores, alien prisoner ships long dormant under the ocean waves lose power and the stasis fails, the pillars to the shell are siphoned for energy and resources leading to vast "pillar" cities that war over arable land, the wild brujah pan and fae of the old world draw human survivors into feudal fiefdom nature preserves sensing their era has come again, a genetic preserve in the shell raptured by the race that created it goes rogue and destroys their containment and become insane transhuman pantheons that trade with pillar oligarchs for human grist, while a rogue cloud organism AI from the makers is ejected onto the surface and raises an army of wetware mechs using entombed pilots as unwilling computational hardware.
Most of it takes place on/in earth, and in the shell for now.
Heavily based on pulp fiction of the era and fortean times style japery, but a bit standardized in grime levels. Played mostly straight.
Faction design centers around identity of the players choosing, based on old marine chapter creation.
That’s… disturbingly similar to my setting. Oh well we’ll probably get together and have a laugh about this in a few years.
We did an rpg project that started on here a few years ago called Sarcophagus.
This is just set in a "shard" of it, due to the nature of the rpg being a compilation of what-ifs and no "hard and fast lore" so that dms could keep the mystery fresh and the twists coming.
So each adventure "module" was completely divorced from one another unless you wished them to link up ala pooh shiesty.
Sounds interesting. My system is tentatively named Strayer so keep an eye out for that.
>Eco-fascist scifi witches.
Sounds really cool anon, keep us posted. Do you have artists? I could volunteer
When we get through premlim testing absolutely. We would love that, none of us are artists. I'll make sure to do a thread when we drop it If you are still inclined to art it up.
If we go the patreon route well settle on a rate, so you aren't burning time for nothing.
Still carving out factions and changing rules by the day at this point.
Had a heated discussion with my partner over leaving a coheed reference out of the latest prototype if that gives you an idea of what kind of outfit we are.
Core rules are done, just disorganized, faction units are about 80% done, all thats left to do on them is armory options and point costs.
As in the rules are in a free pdf you can download and play with whatever models you feel like. If you want to support the game financially you can buy STLs made specifically for it, or limited edition rule books. New rules releases are ‘crowd tested’ to be fun and balanced not to sell models. Art and fluff is donated in return for credit and publicity.
Basically my vision is a game that is community based and run as a not-for-profit.
I’m also the first guy in your reply, the second reply is to someone else.
The bits would be arranged to print as you like, when you print you sort of sprue them up with supports anyhow is what I meant.
So you want to print the bits for (x) youd chop up the multipose layout and bits to make what you wish.
The sprue bit relates to being designed to be support friendly when you mass print.
Well my model so far is that you receive the STLs for each model and the special edition books have commissioned alts.
The STLs being printer friendly sprues so that you can section them off or bitharvest
No monopose, traditional sectioned sprues that you can chop up how you like.
So youd get the bits for all of the kit on the same file, you simply choose which to print.
You don't "buy" anything but the yearly book.
Any model will do, but there needs to be a baseline to set the table.
>This doesn't seem to have the advantage that GW has, of their being official models, that people can't quite so easily reproduce to the same standard with their home printing or casting
Again anon, you don't know what you're talking about. Look at these models, those are the quality of print you will get on even an entry level printer. Every one is superior to GW models and every one is provided for free by the sculptor who does it because he likes doing it https://cults3d.com/en/users/EmanG/creations?page=1
AS am I, it's why I asked if the lads would be receptive.
The world to play around in and contextualize is important, agnostic is fine, but there has to be a tone-setting baseline or the world is without flavor.
Oh man I wish I could say more. It’s a scalable game in a unique setting where you can play with as few as 5-6 models or as many as 60-70. It’s percentile based, all rolls are opposed and use a simple algorithmic formula to calculate probabilities on the fly.
I intend to release it for free and use Patreon and crowdsourcing to keep it available and appealing to the fanbase.
Doing d12 myself.
If there are several games like this, perhaps we can get a cottage industry of these type of games flourishing.
The existant industry of STL chads begs their wealth of talents be synergized with.
Wargaming can be fullscale without being prohibitively expensive.
Good luck Anon, I hope we both make it.
This is basically just one page rules. Free rules, cheap and noob friendly stl releases, and a patreon that gives you access to further rules and extras. Maybe they'll go harder on merch/fancy junk if it takes off further, but it's a currently working system. Once they actually update the unit creator to work with the current list builder it's gonna be perfect for making your own custom armies.
you know GW used to do that and released their entire year of chapter approved articles in one collection too?
new army lists weren't the costs of a codex, you could just photocopy a dudes white dwarf
it kinda makes me sad that people know GW is trash but weren't even around when it was good
how many of you have even read a adrian wood article just dripping with orky passion
and that's the thing this company has no passion left, when the frick perry's leave who literally grew up in the company over decades you know it's over
GW died for me when Andy Chambers, Jervis Johnson, Pete Haines and Adrian Wood all moved on, leaving behind trash like Gav Thorpe and Matt Ward.
I think you and I shall one day meet in Valhalla, my anonymous friend.
Jervis Johnson was completely uninteresting bore. One of the worst writers they ever had.
He was far worse for GW than Matt Ward ever was.
I quite like the guy. I once sent him a modded ruleset for Necromunda turning it into a third-person shooter party game (‘Fragomunda’) and he and I ended up having a chat via email. A very nice chap and one of my favourite people in gaming.
Plus, without him there would be no GW as we know it. YMMV.
>you know GW used to do that and released their entire year of chapter approved articles in one collection too?
>new army lists weren't the costs of a codex, you could just photocopy a dudes white dwarf
Are you an actual moron. Codexes used to go multiple fricking editions without updates or acknowledgment.
DEldar, Tyranids, and SoB went multiple years as unplayable from zero updates, and now you can download the latest updates to whatever in a single PDF.
I have no idea how anyone will unironically get nostalgic for 3rd to 7th edition GW.
> I have no idea how anyone will unironically get nostalgic for 3rd to 7th edition GW.
You have to be 18 to be on Ganker, zoomie.
>you didn't play the game at that point in time, you have no idea what you're talking about
shut the frick up and zoom on your dumb b***h
I was there you stupid fricking Black folk. Nothing that wasn't currently updated was playable in any way. The only person who even thought about playing DEldar was that one dude who dressed like a school shooter and never played the fricking game. Daemonhunters, DEldar, and Witch Hunters books were literally nonfuctional.
Stop lying about shit just because you think OLD GOOD. Half of the codexes GW sold 3rd though 7th were completely unplayable.
>the following 2 nids codexes were super powerful
The 5th edition Nid codex was so bad it literally tanked GW's stock. Nids were completely stone unplayable in the entire history of the game up until 7th.
Two different people Anon. And 4th Ed was awesome, the SM codex and Nid codex were great (Tau were shit though). We also saw Necrons finally get plastic kits, IG got plastic Cadians, truly 4th was the golden age where cost, flexibility, accessibility, variety and fun balanced perfectly.
Then Andy Chambers left and it all went to shit and has been shit ever since.
holy shit you are moronic.
>nothing that wasn't
no, a bunch of 3.5 dexs were perfectly reasonable, i played necrons just fine.
>xy and z were not functional
how?
>the 5th edition
i remember there begins a number of good things in it but i was also checking our around that time. moving onto fantasy
>Nids were completely stone unplayable in the entire history of the game up until 7th.
2nd edition tyranids were beyond a joke anon, using them was worse than playing with loaded dice. One genestealer was cheaper than space marine but could delete a captain
back in the day dark elves literally had a file on the GW site you could download, cut up, and glue into your army book to update it
DEldar got a chapter approved update which gave them the expanded vehicle upgrades among other things
tyranids had a number of good lists from 3rd onwards, particularly when the monster mash became hugely popular
they were never really wanting for updates except at the outset of 3rd, but everyone was
the following 2 nids codexes were super powerful
you didn't play the game at that point in time, you have no idea what you're talking about
shut the frick up and zoom on your dumb b***h
That most of the weight of the boxes are solid plastic scenery is what kills it for me, if you can cut moulds for that boring generic scenery you can give me more models in the box. I love card scenery and a few objective markers are all well and good but the best scenery is what you make yourself. They've killed unofficial modelling and conversions to the point I'm sure a significant number of paypigs wouldn't let you use a converted model
>GW is pricing literal children out of their main games and forcing them to be secondaries.
Isn't that true for every major game franchise now tho? Look at the last magic set selling for almost 400$ a box
Nobody plays mtg at my store. They’re always playing either Pokémon, yugioh or key forge. Mtg is in the same situation as GW products at the moment in my area
>Not a lot of people play magic
>Not a lot of people play 40k
Sounds like you're in the only part of the world where thats a phenomenon then.
Actual kids have been priced out of most Magic formats for years, if not decades. The kids at my local store play pauper, limited, low power commander, and half of the ones that play limited do phantom drafts with adults who buy and keep all the cards because the kids can't pay for it.
At mine magic exclusively sells to what regulars call "the critical rollers". White or white behaving asians from the upper middle class that buy the cards as some form of collectible and don't play with them.
The kids love their buddyfight, weiss schwartz pushing whatever fad anime it is right now and YuGiOh.
At this point i wouldn't be shocked if YuGiOh has overtaken magic and keeps Konami afloat.
Konami is afloat from pachinko. Japanese sadboy gambling addicts will throw entire paychecks at the chance to drop marbles down a chute.
You are a few years out of date. The Pink market is being strangled by the regime changes in government and the 'rona hit them monumentally hard. The pachishit mines finally dried up.
YGO has been bigger than Magic for years, by virtue of the east asian market alone.
You'd be shocked how small MtG is compared to the games that rule east asia.
I was more surprised that the dragonball super cardgame died so fricking fast.
Don't. I remember when a Battalion Box for Warhammer Fantasy cost £50 and came with everything you needed, bar command, for a basic starter army. 40 Clanrats, 20 Plague Monks, 6 Giant Rats (more if you had the bases), 2 Ratogres, and 3 packmasters. Throw in a Warlord and your choice of Hero and you were away.
These days it's £85 for 20 basic infantry and some ogre sized monster and maybe a character. Shits not affordable. When did basic infantry become £30 or more for 10 bods? I'm glad I moved away years back.
I remember when plastic greatswords were boxed ten to a box for I think 25 quid and it was a big deal, people calling them goldswords. And the metal bloodknights being I think 45 for 5 and that seemed unbelievable, but you only needed one box and there were plenty of ways to proxy them
These days I tell people to buy Warlord Landschnekt. £22, iirc, for 40, boxed as pike with options for 5 shot, shot and/or crossbow and halbered/zweihandler. Under £80 buys you enough for the core of an army, you just need to throw in some artillery, cavalry, and command.
Idk about other stuff but 40k has burned me out personally. They've pushed the power creep to moronic levels and every codex that comes out is the new broken shit everyone has to deal with. Afaik they also fricked up massively with the last AoS release. No one asked for slightly different sigmarines and LotR orks and by what I've been told the new rules just made what was bad before even worse.
The constant price hikes over the last few months are another thing. They've put out shit with insulting prices like the necromunda box.
I'm personally moving to HH cuz they seem to have a different direction, at least with the starter set and weapon kits. But even with that I'm more content with painting my miniatures that going out to play cuz I don't want to deal with 40k power gamers
I think you moving on to HH is rather bizarre, especially after your point about the miniature and box prices.
Is it?
Both prices are moronic. I wouldnt pay 150 for the HH box
Yes, it is.
You can get Battle in a Box from the Perry's for like $125 and it shits all over all but maybe the old battle for skull pass starter set when that was $50 and it still lacked the terrain.
If you think Honored of the Chapter is bad... you're not ready for HH once you expand past the starter box.
HH is a lot more open to conversions and kit bashing tho, which'll save you a big fat chunk of change in the long run. The real issue is transports being dirt cheap so you'll need a pile of them compared to what you'd run in 40k
>Is it?
It is. The reason why that HH box is so cheap considering for what you are getting is because they intentionally want to entice you into the whole thing.GW knows for a fact that as soon as you've parted with 300$ then you're way more and will guaranteely pay another 50$ maybe even another 100$ on top.
This is incredibly common business tactic that all piece of shit companies like GW use to get more money out of you.
You are a dumbass for not realizing as for why the boxset is like that.
ORCS HERE NORTHSTAR
But seriously, I'm just not into 40k, AoS is mostly to have an excuse to go outside once a month and that's mostly my old empire models, and so far nothing they've released is really exciting.
More interested in painted my Blackpowder army, the Northstar orcs are coming out soon, and I got a Samurai starter army on the way.
BlackPowder is fun, and you can use the same shit for D'armee which is my personal favorite.
Napoleanics frick because you get like 15 different game systems out of one army.
Frickers even hit the table for Silver Bayonet.
The Coronageddon was just a once-in-a-lifetime peak in interest in tabletop games in general, and we've been on the slow comedown from that for the last year
I've seen a lot of zoomlets drop the hobby over the last year as their attention span is literally the worst of any generation in human history. I thought millennials were bad but holy shit.
Kinda feels like the wave of younger millennials that filtered out when 6th edition rolled around.
I bet 10th and the release of Sphesss Mareen 2 will bring in waves of new players tho
>discussing any other games with their 0.5% of the total consumer base
lol
I'm not sure if you've looked outside recently, but the UK is going through the biggest recession since the 1940s. Stuff costs more to make and ship now, as well as many people buying less toy soldiers due to having to pay for basics like food, rent, heating, electric and petrol?
Anon that is the worst argument I've ever heard and only proves that GW are beyond moronic, their prices were always high but for years they have been out of control and they are well beyond any other inflationary pressures, now they are just straight up ludicrous and I have no idea who they even think their target market is
Paypigs will try and desperate spin to defend their golden calf, they can't have made an unwise investment of time and money, thats impossible!
I agree. Many companies (GW included) are going to find that the huge audience that propped up their aggressive short term sales techniques is now evaporating. Wargames are a luxury and many of their previous customers will now be focussing on essentials instead.
I don't understand how anyone can justify paying the prices, they are absolutely extraordinary. Like they always seemed high for a lot of things even in the 90s but now its astonishing. You have to buy one character with no options which if it is any good now will absolutely get nerfed to smithereens in a year or two.
It wasn't long ago most people in a GW store were early to mid teens, now it's just adults. How can there be any future growth in a hobby that is so hostile to people wanting to get into it? This week alone I've printed perfect versions of models that would have cost me over 300 quid. every morning I've got a new sabre tank, every evening I've got another 8 true scale terminators or a couple of characters and all those files were made by people for fun who gave them away. I do not understand what GW's long term thinking is
I think it's pretty clear that GW doesn't really do long-term thinking: it's just "wring as many pennies out of our customer base as possible today and frick tomorrow."
>GW's long term thinking
GW is a publicly traded company and as such they need to have bigger profits each yeaar bc otherwise higher managment will have to deal with angry investors. It's definitely not sustainable in the long run but that's other people's problem when the executive officers have already retired. This shit is pretty common
>more customers=more profits
Every other company in the world can figure this out, even amazon has sales events
The company that makes no money selling things so that it can sell as many things as possible has sales? Stunning insight. Surely a mass retailer that aims to replace all commerce has the same business strategy as a niche hobby company
For a niche hobby company with prices that can't compete with competent hobbyists with printers and pirated/premium stls GW is not planning at all for what the hobby will look like in 5-10 years. As more and more good models get made for the incentive of profit the concept of paying 10+ dollars for a single infantry sized model when you need 30-50 of them will be absurd.
Okay but saying "even amazon has sales" is completely moronic because amazons entire business model is losing money
Sure, and GW's entire business model is long term unsustainable as more and more easy to use printers come out with models that don't look like shit and aren't fragile. GW even uses 3D printing now for prototypes, they know it exists intimately.
I don't care as much about GWs long term prospects as much as I care about how stupid it is to say "even amazon has sales" as if amazon having sales is surprising or notable
Fair enough, NTA.
He didn't say it, I did. amazon is a company with total ,market dominance, literal control of national governments and for many people is the only option they have to buy online. even more so now. And yet that company, that doesn't even have to obey the law, has sales events to attract new customers and keep old ones. It is not supposed to be notable that they do this when it was specifically to illustrate that literally every single company on earth, including monopolies like amazon and even ones that are so exclusive that they have no branding or advertising of any kind, do more to attract new customers than GW whose only policy is to bleed paypigs like you who spend your free time defending their bullshit for free.
I have a friend who was a GW regional sales manager once literally tell me that GW was going to prevent 3D printing of all kinds by legal means.
He’s not with GW any more and we don’t ever mention that discussion we had.
Man I was around before consumer 3d printing took off, but none of the yoyhammer dudes would give me contact info ..
I didn't know anyone who played Warhammer just wanted to get into it but people just accused me of being games workshop legal....
I just got into Warhammer 10 years later because they offered the free painting lesson + battle honors program
Frick off paypig, literally every other company on earth actively tries to recruit new customers and retain old ones except GW, there's plenty of PRIMARIS ARE KING threads up for you to post in
The point is that hiking prices is short term higher profits and they don't really care about the future
Same at my lgs, people playing 40k and aos are seen less and less and more and more people are starting to play infinity, crisis protocol and sw legion. I think it’s just a matter of time and money. I play both legion and marvel and it takes me 2 hours to play a couple of games of both. If it’s been a while since I’ve played 40k, those 2 hours is maybe 2-3 turns.
I also liked GW rules, but once I found out about other games there’s no turning back. Again, the “you go I go” in games like marvel is far more appealing than having to wait for 30
minutes like an npc while your opponent moves, casts spells, shoots and charges at you with his whole army.
I also find other companies models to be a better quality than GW. Not the models (although some recent marvel products are better than recent GW ones imo) but the quality of the plastic. X23 for example has the thinnest claws I’ve seen in a model and they haven’t broken yet. Nighthaunt models break off just by looking at them. Marvel is more expensive yeah, but you get one box for each character and that’s it, you don’t need 3 boxes of Wolverine to play the game.
Also GWs and their followers attitude sucks ass lately. Nobody ever cared about HH on YouTube. But hey; they sent me free stuff so now HH is the hottest shit in the world. Like frick off man, they’ll move on in a month to the newest stuff. I liked GW better when it wasn’t that popular
>Same at my lgs, people playing 40k and aos are seen less and less and more and more people are starting to play infinity, crisis protocol and sw legion.
Same in mine, recently picked up Infinity. GW models are less and less customisable nowadays so I may as well drop the thing.
Same, I play 40k because one of my closest friends plays it and I collect aos because I like painting them. Im considering getting into historical but my lgs group is full of old, weird smelling dudes
My problem wasn't the rules as such but how they distribute and update them. Age of Sigmar in particular went from one of the best, most stable games albeit not without its own flaws to a shitty imitation of 40k with the most fricking strange army book release schedule i've seen since like 5th edition 40k.
They are so desperate to stick to a "every saturday a preorder to farm the goyim" that the writing half cannot keep up with people loading up the same CAD poses and tweaking them for a new model and it really shows.
I don’t know about AoS because I sold all my stuff when 3.0 was announced, but 40k schedule is shit.
If you want your whole game to be recycled every 3 years, at least have the decency to release every codex at once at the beginning of the edition, not a codex every 2 months.
> They are so desperate to stick to a "every saturday a preorder to farm the goyim" that the writing half cannot keep up with people loading up the same CAD poses and tweaking them for a new model and it really shows.
It’s clear to me GW higher ups wouldn’t give two shits about the company selling bras instead of miniatures, there’s no love for the game, just cash
>Nobody ever cared about HH on YouTube. But hey; they sent me free stuff so now HH is the hottest shit in the world
This is heavily to do with how HH is actually just 40k the way people liked it, I would never watch any shill channel but the few I do watch have organically started doing HH and I think it's fine. Stratagems and gotcha bullshit are the cancer that have killed any interest in current 40k
>just 40k the way people liked it
I'm expecting anyone who played marines before primaris came along to just move to 40k. I've done that at least. I had completely forgotten how good 7th rules were compared to 9th and 9th. Shit the only thing people could really complain about were a few broken formations and those are not a thing in HH
Theme forces dropped today for Legion. It's the beginning of the end 🙁
What is the difference between HH and regular 40K? I thought it was just the same ruleset but with minis from a different time period in 40K's lore.
It’s 7th ed rules with HH models. You got flamer templates and all that stuff. I’ve considered getting the box but everything you need to get started is 300€
>I've noticed lately that everyone i know locally and online has dropped GW products. Not out of some major scandal or outrage, or even some agreed boycott or something. Just over the last few months one by one they've just stopped playing, talking about it, they are just kind of done with it.
I mean that's great and all, good for you. getting over gw and moving on to better stuff is an important step for any hobby community.
what's your point here?
I think the point is usually when theres a dip its some specific thing that pissed people off and made them scream they are done... for about two months tops. This time the decline has been a death of a thousand cuts deal.
they're pulling out of your town because it's economically doomed
by the end of this year you'll have no chain stores of any kind, the mall will be derelict and people will start leaving en masse, and then the fun begins as property speculators buy up this dirt cheap housing and land not to occupy but to land bank with, using it as collateral for deals elsewhere while they count its nominal value as being far higher since it's already got transport, cabotage, power, sewerage and water links and in theory could be worth a whole lot more
then when it's a ghost town they'll just buy out the last holdout for an amount that seems large but doesn't account for the money the holdout spent on travel or the opportunity cost of remaining in a place that lacked basic services and amenities as those became nonviable financially over the years - decades, perhaps - that the process takes, including the cost in terms of family and other relationships strained by protracted isolation
and then they'll rebuild it as a resort or dormitory town, using the "character" of the old town or simply a better, more desirable place nearby, leaving the construction of actual amenities to others but buying into the construction of franchise restaurants, chain stores and empty units intended for use as mediocre, overpriced local businesses that can spring up and fail in a few years without anybody being any the wiser that the company they paid rent to would have made money even if the unit stood empty for all that time because they're using the leased units as collateral on deals elsewhere at a far higher value than they could if the land were simply being banked empty
you should have left with GW, OP
>All the lgs's in backwater towns I've been to have no 40k stuff and little/no mtg stuff
You might be shitposting but I think you're actually on to something
small towns expand or die, they never stay small except relative to growth elsewhere
It’s cash creep.
Here’s an example. I’m a huge fan of Necromunda (1995). When it came out you’d buy one or two books and a box of models and be set.
New-cromunda you need the rule book, an overpriced deck of ‘tactics cards’, a gang, a gang add-on box, the gang book (which is padded out with badly written fluff that nobody needs). Then if you want something to increase the depth of the game you need to buy stuff from Forgeworld. Half the shit you need to play is OOP and good luck getting it on eBay.
Here in Australia that means rules, plus basic gang, plus gang book and tactics cards is almost three hundred dollars. For the price of a box set and the basic shit two people need to play, you can buy a gaming PC. And people wonder why GW has peaked.
Add into that the creeping advance of troons and social justice warriors into a games design studio that used to be unapologetically politically incorrect and you have a recipe for disaster.
>300-600 hundred AUS dollar PC
What the frick you going to play on that? Minesweeper?
Assuming we want to play the gangs in the box:
Hive War box $250
2x gang add-on boxes $144
2x ‘House of…” books $168
Add another gang?
Box plus add on, plus book and cards $278.
That’s over $800. Add $40 per player if they want the ‘weapons upgrade’ boxes, plus having to buy shit from Forgeworld if they want to add named hired guns/stig shamblers etc.
Terrain? Add another $100-$200 if you don’t make your own.
Someone who wants to start Necromunda can easily blow through a grand or more, where old-school necromunda you could set up four players for $250.
Suddenly that toaster PC starts looking pretty reasonable in comparison.
Wait are you arguing about the bare essentials, because it sounds like you're whining about there being more options to buy than before.
Because right now you can get two gangs + the rules for them for 144 (before tax and shipping)
Are you talking about the hive war box I specifically mentioned in the post you’re replying to, you fricking mongoloid?
That’s barely the basics, if you want the ‘full game experience’ you’re looking at $300+ per player (kanga dollars that is). It’s a design feature not a bug. I can spend that $300 on shares that will only go up in value and just get what I need via proxies and playing the old-school rules.
And that’s why GW is in trouble, the more people come to realise that you can have all the fun at a tenth of the price then they’re truly fricked.
Yeah what killed 40k for me was the tail-end codexes coming out only 12-18 months before the new editions, get fricked. Not spending $100-$200 a year just to stay ‘current’ when there are massive balance issues and constant errata proving that Nottingham has a massive moronation problem.
Yea I think he is saying that for $800 you will get a shitty microsoft word capable computer only.
If you want a gaming PC you are looking at $1800 minimum.
I think the general problem is just burnout and constant releases.
The cycle is generally go to flgs, play some games, buy some minis, build paint and come back to play more and people have already moved on to the next thing.
I cant keep up and I cant be bothered. No point in buying minis just to play for a couple weeks.
The rules updates especially for 40k is ridiculous. Its a hobby not a full time job. I work and have other hobbies, I cant invest all my free time to it.
3rd 1998
4th 2004
5th ed 2008
6th ed 2012
7th ed 2014
8th ed 2017
9th ed 2020
10th ed 2023?
The releases went from a 4 year cycle to a 3 year cycle and within that three years there will be points and rules changes every 6 months and just about the same for FAQs. Thats just 40k. Then bloodbowl, titanicus, aos, underworlds, necromunda, kill team, horus heresy.
Im sticking with lord of the rings. Great game, simple and the rules dont change much
That's a shitty PC anon, just having rgb doesn't mean it's going to run games well. You're going to need to buy another SSD within a year or two, that graphics card is already 3 years old and you're going to need more than 8 gigs of ram for anything AAA. Not to mention the a monitor with good refresh rate and a keyboard, mouse, and headset
God you’re stupid. I know it’s a shitty PC but we’re not debating absolute value of the PC, we’re looking at relative values of the PC versus expense of GW.
If you gave most kids a choice between a $1000 gaming PC, $1000 worth of console or $1000 in GW, what do you think most kids will pick?
And that’s where GW is fricking up. They’ve never been value for money, and now that people need to buy book after book and accessory after accessory it feels like they’re bleeding people out one purchase at a time.
I don’t want to have to buy ten fricking books at forty to fifty bucks a pop just to make sure I don’t get blindsided by a cheat while playing Kill Team at my local gaming club.
This is why Bolt Action is gaining ground. No power creep, 3D print/alternative model friendly, affordable to buy into. Plus it’s fast and fun, and fun is what we’re in the hobby for, yah?
If you asked a kid to pick between a console and $1,000,000,000 worth of GW stuff they'll always pick the console dumbass.
I don't know if you've noticed but kids generally aren't really interested in models in general to begin with anymore, and no, It's not because of gw price point, videogames are far more accessible to learn and require 0 effort to enjoy. Kids aren't going to spend hours painting and assembling stuff when they can play fortnite or whatever at the drop of a hat.
>I don’t want to have to buy ten fricking books at forty to fifty bucks a pop just to make sure I don’t get blindsided by a cheat while playing Kill Team at my local gaming club.
Then don't? Did you used to buy every book for every army, even the ones you didn't own? Also wahapedia's been around since 7th edition and has the killteam rules just use that.
>This is why Bolt Action is gaining ground
>bolt action
Yeah I bet bolt actions going to bring the school kids in, because if there's something zoomers love it's WW2
>If you asked a kid to pick between a console and $1,000,000,000 worth of GW stuff they'll always pick the console dumbass.
Way to keep missing the point. GW needs to get fresh blood into their business model, and stupid prices (along with piecemeal rules releases, rules bloat and power creep) are all significant disincentives.
Basically as their prices increase, other hobbies (which see their prices decrease over time) become more and more attractive. GW is doing nothing to offset the coming crunch and the inevitable result will be a corporate collapse on their part.
>Basically as their prices increase, other hobbies (which see their prices decrease over time)
What are you talking about, what hobby has the prices decrease overtime and not increase with inflation? Once something is first introduced, that's the cheapest that things going to be.
Computer parts, videogame consoles, even the emerging budget 3-d printers, they're all going to increase with overtime.
Computer games and 3D printing are two areas where prices have stayed relatively static or decreased while functionality and capability have significantly increased.
GW tabletop wargaming hasn’t improved in terms of an experience (compare the elegant simplicity of 4th Ed with the bloated mess of 6th onwards) and is more expensive than ever.
>Computer games and 3D printing are two areas where prices have stayed relatively static or decreased while functionality and capability have significantly increased.
The decrease in cost seen in 3-d printers is tied to a clear decrease in quality, sure there's 100 dollar 3-d printers now but their print quality is shit
Also computer games have become way pricier, what with microtransactions, retail rpcie increases (AAA bit the bullet and is pushing for 70 to be the new standard price) and console prices also increasing.
The only decrease in price you see is always tied to a decrease in quality or functionality.
Are you on drugs? An 8k resin printer costs less now than a shitty filament printer did ten years ago.
>computer games have gotten pricier
If you only buy AAA, ubishit, console ports and microtransaction laden garbage, sure.
>The only decrease in price you see is always tied to a decrease in quality or functionality
Absolute bullshit. Look at cellphones over the last 20 years.
You are clearly a fricking moron, go eat some more lead paint chips.
He's just a fool anon, he's spouting off shit about printing when the only experience he has of it is reading what some other clueless homosexual said
>The decrease in cost seen in 3-d printers is tied to a clear decrease in quality, sure there's 100 dollar 3-d printers now but their print quality is shit
You're absolutely delusional anon, you simply don't know what you're talking about. I have three printers and the cheapest is the best, it unfailingly prints whatever I want with 0.5mm detail.
If you knew anything about printers you would know a resin printer only consists of 2 things, an LCD screen and an arm that raises the bed out of the tray. The cheapest one is as good as the most expensive it will just print more slowly
Each one of these printed overnight on an £80 printer for about £5 resin total, and that's high because they're solid. This would have cost me over £225. I printed them in the last week, in which time I have also printed 30 true scale deathwing terminators and 20 custodes.
What printer?
A photon mono I got for 80 quid last year, though now it's a lot more expensive
>photon mono
Thanks, I want to get into 3D printing so I´ll be keeping an eye on the prices absurd as they may be now, maybe with the coming recession some people will part ways with theirs.
I assume there is just a big shortage though I have no idea how long it will last. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one if they come down. Make sure to buy a Sovol resin vat if you get a photon though
“Computer games are way pricier”
>cost $60 in 1994
>cost $60 in 2022
Non-based moron
What he said. Original SNES player here. Street Fighter 2 Turbo and Mortal Kombat both cost my parents £60 when they came out. I saved up pocket money for Turtles in Time and it cost me £45. That was in the mid-90s. Taking inflation into account, video games are actually cheaper now.
that's a steaming load of shite
>The decrease in cost seen in 3-d printers is tied to a clear decrease in quality, sure there's 100 dollar 3-d printers now but their print quality is shit
lol
lmao
Shit dude your printer has better resolution than your camera
>guiz I’m totally saving money spending 400 bucks on a printer, 50 on resin/plastic, and a dozen a day running this thing for 16 hours!!!
Missing the point anon. For the cost of one competitive army you can buy a great Elegoo printer and make unlimited models. Every print amortises the cost.
If GW was cheaper than 3D printing nobody would 3D print GW analogues.
People are moronic, they’re not making that calculation. If you’re printing dozens of full armies fairly efficiently, maybe you’re saving money. For any normal person, they’re likely not.
And don’t pretend that your fully painting them all if you are printing several armies
How isnt thar a huge save? by the time you print your first 700 points it’s amortized
I have the time to play a game of test of honour, don’t have the time to build scenery, keep some kind of organized group and all that. Sucks but it is what it is
>How isnt thar a huge save? by the time you print your first 700 points it’s amortized
My 2000 point army was only like 200 bucks.
If you get a high quality printer (and you need to for minis) that’s 300-400 bucks. And I’m not kidding about energy prices. These frickers basically need to run all day, and the price of energy being what it is these days, it’s would be about 10 bucks a day
It could easily work out cheaper not to print
It’s definitely cheaper buying recasts.
I think printgays just like to tell themselves they’re getting a deal, like Black Friday shoppers
>My 2000 point army was only like 200 bucks.
Do you actually play GW games? Do you understand how little 2k points is?
Is it really that easy to find stls for GW games?
>My 2000 point army was only like 200 bucks.
Post link to GW sales page showing your $200 2000pt army or frick off and die.
Put your list bucko
GW new blood isn't fricking kids.
It's 20somethings with their first job, extra cash, and time. And they vaguely remember the hobby from their teen years.
Now that they have the dosh, they try it out.
It hasn't been about the kids for over a decade
>And they vaguely remember the hobby from their teen years.
and why the frick would they remember it
>over a decade
and yeah that's a problem.
Aw, you tried.
This actually isn't really true. A lot of people who start out are 10-15 years old, a lot of the time due to parents getting them into it. And that number is most likely going to exponentially increase as interest in this sort of stuff is seen as more socially acceptable and "cool". You'd be amazed how often kids are pushed into stuff like D&D by their folks these days.
t. FLGS owner for 20 years
Yeah, they try it out.
Mom and dad buy a starter, maybe a few boxes.
Then they hit late teens and college and drop that shit like a hit potato because it's literally pussy repellant.
But... once they get past that.... they come back and start spending more money
>tries to sage, announces sage attempt with name field
>also self-contradictory post
Not having a good day are you sage anon? Hope it gets better.
>the console
yeah and maybe that's a problem
the other guy is right on two counts. 1. the relative cost makes it prohibitively expensive for new people to join, particularly young people who either lack disposable income or rely on allowance.
2. this is further compounded in that it has to compete against the internet, video games, and every other form of entertainment available.
I joined this hobby as a kid, i knew a bunch who also could afford it on allowance and summer jobs.
Compared to it's competitors it is fricked, infinity is like a 100 usd for a full army, battletech is like 25 usd for a pack of mechs and you can trade or 3d print. mantic isn't great for price but it's still cheaper.
We will still be saying this for years, games workshop is pushing the hobby to be like model trains. prohibitively expensive and organized around milking it's existing userbase rather than expanding, arguably. a lot of it's current expansion i believe to be the result of it's prominence in the market and the cultural shift toward liking nerd shit and i think that will fade away as all FotM do
Anecdotal admittedly, but this has been my experience. My son's 11 now, just slightly younger than I was getting into the hobby, but he couldn't give a shit about Warhammer. He enjoys art and likes painting the occasional model, but he couldn't care less about building an army or playing a tabletop game. He'd rather play on the PS5, jam on the guitar or play with Lego.
It's just a side effect of the cost of living going up, when that happens luxury toy soldiers are going to be one of the first things people stop buying
Also a lot of casual players are into GW games because it's easy to find opponents so when people start dropping out other players might start having second thoughts too especially if they liked the guy that dropped out and the remaining hardcore players are smelly waacgays
I doubt this will spell serious trouble for GW, they've got their hardcore fans and casuals will come back when the economy is in better shape
>balance problems out the ass
>Horusheresy.idea
>release a game where identical forces fight each other
Chess is cheaper and works off the same principle.
One of the HH players at my flgs was complaining about the new rules and how they didn't include rules for every legion, so I made on offhand comment on how all marines are basically the same.
His response was "you could say all mechs are the same", I play Battletech. Didn't reply but tbh marine and HH players have some serious delusions about their armies "diversity".
>9/10 pieces of "evidence" in this thread are what youtubers are talking about
do any of you own models or is 40k just an excuse for celebrity gossip?
Some anons mention it in this thread before but there are no kids and teena left in the hobby, in my local store there is only people in their thirties that started in Warhammer decades ago and have a lot of shit now, there is no new blood just the same old people playing and buying, one die this people will leave the hobby for some reason and no one will replace them. The kids and teens I see play cards games (no Magic tho) and skirmish games that are not too much money and work compared to the monster of Warhammer.
> there is no new blood just the same old people playing and buying, one die this people will leave the hobby for some reason and no one will replace them.
You know you don't have to be a child to pick up something new.
I'd also chock it up to a lack of availability of FLG's as kid I always found warhammer vaguely interesting but never got tro actually try it out because the nearest place that sold boxes were more than an hour away by bike. I'm sure if they pushed to get there stuff in big-box stores, you'd see a lot more kids getting interested
>You know you don't have to be a child to pick up something new.
You are right, but the problem is that I don't see new adults playing, I have been in that store for years and I have only seen one new guy in the Warhammer group, the rest are just the same people. I don't know how is the situation in other stores tho.
Mine saw a huge uptick after covid, just about doubled in size, what area of the world you in if you don't mind me asking
West Southern Europe in a city of 200.000+ habitants, I wouldn't be surprised if things were different in the UK or America
From having friends that work in FLGS's, GW has been increasingly treating them like shit with outrageous and sometimes financially penalizing demands, combine that with increased cost and less value for money and I totally get why they aren't stocking it.
My local keeps some specialist games stuff from necromunda/blood bowl as the only stuff that gets new stock, the rest of the AoS/40k stuff has been sitting there untouched for a few years.
Star wars shit and the d and d stuff sells like crazy.
For me realizing all the amazing conversions I saw are way too costly and the only people doing them are influencers or direct GW employees.
>From having friends that work in FLGS's, GW has been increasingly treating them like shit with outrageous and sometimes financially penalizing demands, combine that with increased cost and less value for money and I totally get why they aren't stocking it.
I hear this a lot at my FLGS too, liaising with GW is apparently a huge hassle. The big issue they're having is that they have to get their pre-orders for new stuff in a week before it goes up on pre-order for GW
guy you were replying to, to elaborate they pretty much command you to buy big amounts, no buying pits and pieces in, plus being obligated to carry things like new paint ranges and quite often fricking things up with pre-orders, i've lost track of the amount of times i've come in for a new GW product only to be told its ot there because GW fricked up releases again - pretty much forces me to go to my local GW which I loathe.
Gw doesnt host games in their stores anymore so i lost interest a bit.
Im working on some crazy conversions though. But they seem closer to art projects. Unfortunately i dont think they’ll see the glory of the board.
Im just sick of trannies trying to hang around and be my chum also if i go to a games store and since im semi normy i dont like it there but it seems the only option.
LGS stopped selling games workshop because Warhammer stores are aggressively expanding.
The LGS only hosts Yu-Gi-Oh, magic the gathering events ...and just sell Warhammer at over retail what do they have over a games workshop?
The LGS owners can't even paint. They sometimes give a table or two with Astro turf and some light LIGHT terrain pieces slapped on it usually organized by an employee there for maybe a year or two max before being a Warhammer stockist with no events again
>Selling Warhammer at over retail
Half the point of supporting a LGS is that they can sell under GW prices if people buy in decent volume.
Statistically you are wrong though
At no other point in time has there been more people playing with GW crap than today. Tournaments are packed and more frequent than ever and tourney guys are only the small percent ones who end up going hard in.
Rule bloat
I dropped out last year. Used to spend around $1,000 a year on the hobby. Now I just don't.
As a casual that started last year I can't even keep up with the rules anymore. I was building an army then a month in it's invalid because of point changes. The game itself needs to be simplified, perhaps not as much as AoS, but at least to prevent 3 hour+ games too.
At this point I'm just buying select models that look cool instead of planning around an entire army.
>Its another "GW GON DIE LMAO" post, surely this decade will be the one!
>Slavs still dont understand how shilling works, accuse everyone that likes what they dont of being shills.
oh it's worse you guys have like a sunken cost fallacy so you simp for your corpo overlords for free.
at least shills are paid.
paypig here, what else should I play then? I like sci fi and I like to make 'your dudes'.
use 3rd party but play in GWs universe
Stargrunt
Stargrave
5 parasecs from home
One page rules
Battletech
In my case I had been considering giving up on GW for some time and did so definitively after a tournament at my lgs where 80% of the lists were harlequins and/or dark eldar. Not because the fact that people bought into competitive just to play a 70% win rate army, you can do whatever you want with your money. But at that time I realized ‘man, this shit is irredeemably broken, there must be some other system with better rules’ so I boxed my stuff and got myself a test of honour box and a Star Wars core set. I get myself some AoS models from time to time, paint them up and re sell them on eBay for some profit.
I can say I’ve never been happier hobby wise, I don’t have to paint 20 models which are technically the same with different poses and I just spend an hour playing a game, not an entire evening for 4 turns.
Community is much more welcoming in both games as well. For those of you who play 40k I’d recommend at least try other games, you’ll be pleased with what’s out there outside your GW bubble
The thing is with a tournament there should be no problem with everyone having the exact same list because the more similar the list the more actual skill and luck come in. But I agree for non-tournament play it's absolute bullshit
>Have you noticed any major burnout?
Not really. I pre-ordered my Age of Darkness boxes through a smaller game store than the usual one I go to (slightly better pre-order bonuses) and there was a huge stack of AoD, tanks, etc. behind the counter. I imagine the bigger stores in town had proportionally larger pre-orders.
If I may be honest, people have been forecasting the doom of GW since I started playing in 3e, over 20 years ago. It wasn't true then, and it seems unlikely to be true now.
40K and AoS are trainwrecks, they do too many side games that are far from self contained and too expensive to entice new players, and are either only OK at best, and worse than the big games in many cases.
HH is shockingly good rules wise mind, and the starter box and new/repacked minis for 2.0 are actually better value than the 40K equivalents, but it's definitely a game sized at old players and existing fans. I cannot imagine anyone adult starting wargaming with HH, let alone kids.
How’s HH for someone who doesn’t give two shits about the space marine side of the lore? I might get a box for a friend whose birthday is coming soon
You can blay as mechanicum and guard as well. HH Mechanicum is miles cooler than 40k and IG is basically whatever you want to kitbash or play as, and feels awesome when the underdog soldiers kill marines.
> HH
> ShOcKiNgLy GoOd RuLeS!!!
They are not even good FOR GW.
Which means the rules are absolute shit compared to companies with an ounce of competence.
Holy shit how new are you
they aren't cool anymore
They need more fast and fun Beer & Pretzels games, we pretty much only play Kill Team and Warcry these days.
AoS requiers a 3rd party website that shows you the most up to date rules for your army, it’s so much fricking pain to play it.
>Spend hundreds on GW minis in the 00s/early 10s
>Eventually my armies become obscure meme lists in terms of viability, only can have fun in narrative
>Some newbie who bought his first marine in 2019 claims I'm "filtered" because I refuse to play model carousel
Im not a complete Stillmaniac, Ill often pick up a unit or 2 every few years, but having to ruin my theme with my forces all because my fluffy list lost viability over time is dumb. It really sucks the fun out of owning models when GW can just decide that you're going to lose unless you constantly go for new models. GW hates anyone who doesn't just mindlessly spend these days.
Me and my friend group burnt out when the armour of contempt and ordnance changes came out. it just too much on top of already a lot of rules and auras.
If you've got a group why not just play your favourite edition with them?
>Have you noticed any major burnout?
No. We play whatever we want with whatever minis we want. I purchase GW products when I like them. I don't like 9th ed 40K, but I still play 3rd edition with my friends. I use Citadel minis to play non-GW games. Break free from the shackles of
>le corporation good
or
>le corporation bad
Play what you want with what you want, and unless you are a stockholder, don't worry about GW's business decisions.
8th ed warhammer fantasy here. GW can suck my fat dwarven wiener.
> I PROUDLY play the worst edition of fantasy!!!
> as a homosexual gun line cannon spam faction that sits in a corner, not partipating in most of the fricking game
homosexual
Rules instability. When I started playing the release schedule was so slow that it didn't outpace the rate at which I build/paint. Now in-progress builds are invalidated or at least made unappealing before they even see the table. I admit I work slowly, but I take pride in what I do; I'm not some 3 colour minimum tournament player who sees painting as the means to an end, no maybe the fault lies with me.
It kills my enthusiasm because I don't know if what I want to build today will be relevant tomorrow, and that's before I even consider the units I've built or started to build which have gotten squatted, or even the wargear they're modelled with becoming an invalid option.
It used to feel like GW valued hobbyist's creativity and loyalty; that the models I lovingly built would always be represented in the rules and hopefully even be viable. Now I'm more restricted in what I can field and GW can swoop in and change it any time. It doesn't feel like my army anymore.
Trying to convince my group to play previous editions is hard too, because the amount of homebrew required to field their more recent units/factions just isn't appealing.
I'm indifferent to them now. I don't care enough to complain anymore.
it's simple. they can't write rules for shit currently.
everything is released broken, and then is invalidated within 6 months, and they expect you to pay $50 for a giant hardcover of those broken rules.
so frick em
>Is it just too many little things at once burning people out?
for me? yes, I disliked the company for many years but the friends keep me playing and stuff but now with all the 9th edition rules frickery I'm totally out and I don't have faith that 10th will be better
Mad pricing, woke bullshit, awful customer/fan treatment, broken game that needs to be patched constantly... I'm tired and I have been lately modeling and converting 3rd party minis and making scenery.
Basically I like making my minis, I dislike GW
Whenever someone suggests or even asks about another miniature game system on this board a bunch of fricking lunatics screech the place down going on and on about 'shills' until everyone else gives up and leaves.
Also.
9th is a bloated mess and the constant price hikes piss everyone off.
GW has trained their customers well to be incredibly loyal, to the point of it getting embarrassing now. I gave up finishing a Guard infantry army because of how they run things currently.
I miss when being a Warhams fan meant avoiding paying GW if at all possible while relentlessly shittalking the rules.
I would argue AoS 3rd is even worse. 9th 40k is just a continued decline. AoS 2nd saved that game and made it a hit only for everything to be thrown out to turn into indomitus 2: yes, we even copied the primaris for the stormcast boogaloo. They had the audience in the palm of their hand then shit in it.
that being said, the new stormcast are better designed than the old ones. Less space marine like proportions and more paladin esque
except as popular as stormies are they dont make up the majority of the game nor its player base
the only thing they've done wrong with 3rd edition AoS is take fricking forever to release not enough
its always been self interested lgs that make their profits from 40k shit and now actually shills on social media,
They don't want their money earner burning down.
People need to just stop doing business with stores that stock GW's hobby poison.
Social media behaviour and a community of truly vile tubers.
Seriously this c**t makes my fricking skin crawl.
Wasn't he out fricking a transvestite as his wife had triplets alone or some crazy bullshit?
I think that's a rumor but his wife did leave him.
I can't confirm or deny.
Can someone confirm?
Seconding.
When she was in hospital giving birth to triplets he was off fricking some troony warhammer instagram "t-thot" then he fricking divorced his wife with three months old kids during the pandemic to get pegged by his frickmaster while trying to scrub her from everything even when she did a lot of the post production stuff and he tried to run with all the money and leave her penniless.
That was the last i heard and people like vince blacklisted him. Hes the worst example of a millenial i can think of and if he gets aids its pure karma.
>"frick off this cannot be real"
>google it
>not only is it real theres a now mostly dead midwinter minis subreddit where he sits there every day trying to scrub all the comments related to this
>he even went back and deleted every post by his wife
>tried to erase that he was ever married
>is "single and looking for love"
I guess the troony got bored and move on, who would have thought that wouldn't last?
I cannot find shit.
I doubt you are telling the truth.
Seconded
Post proof or be known as LARPers
All I am able to find is a subreddit with a shitload of deleted comments. Hard to verify it this way. Or are there some other sites that mention it? Also is the troony this Dana Hawl creature?
>is the troony this Dana Hawl creature
God that dude tries so hard to pass, but you can just hear all the damage that deepthroating Bad Dragon dildoes has done to his vocal cords.
Wasn't a real marriage in the first place, it was common law.
QRD?
>be in middle school / early high school
>get the warhammer fantasy battle orks vs empire starter box for my birthday
>eventually add on to it and have two functional armies with whatever money i made cutting lawns
>there are a few other kids at my school who have armies or are aware enough that they can play using someone elses force at the store
>no GW store in my city but local hobby / gaming store is mostly 15-25 year olds, with the higher end being elder grognards helping out kids with rules or modeling advice
>fast forward to now
>consider getting back into it, check out killteam
>basically everyone in the store could have been in that same 15-25 year old group when i was playing, with the youngest people being in their early 20s and most of the players being closer to 40
>getting a dark eldar killteam put together, counting all the peripherals like paint, totaled out to more than the orks vs empire starter box
>a cursory look at AoS and 40k made a starting army that wouldn't get bodied look to be a $300+ affair with the potential to go much higher
It is no wonder they lost the middle school-early high school audience. Nobody would have played at all if it was that expensive when I was in school and even adjusting for inflation those increases are insane. I could afford to smoke weed and cigarettes and still play, with no "real" job.
A $300 Magic or Yu Gi Oh deck would be strong enough to shit can a majority of casual players and, depending on the era and deck type, have at least a fighting chance against even substantially more expensive decks. $300 worth of Battletech would be the starter box, Clan Invasion box (2 complete rule books, two lances of inner sphere mechs, 1 clan supernova and a total of 15 models + 2 bases of elementals) and more force packs than you would ever use. $300 of videogames is an entire summer's worth of free time and if you aren't buying AAA new releases you can probably purchase your entire squad a copy of whatever your playing.
This. It’s been a while since I’ve bought products directly from GW since I get everything I want off eBay or other sellers.
>last week
>decide to get myself an elite ogre army because I like the lore and the models are reminiscent of old warhammer
>yeah I’ll get to start collecting boxes and get to 500-1000 points
>drive to the lgs
>even with 15% off, 500-1000 points of ogres is $200
>not even half of what I need if I want to play in bigger games
>it’s just fricking plastic
>get myself an entire Roman army with more triarii I’ll ever need for half that price
They’re playing for the short run, make as much as you can in as little time as possible. I don’t know if GW will change any time soon and I’m not sure this kind of policy can be sustained for much longer. I guess the end game is every other company that competes with GW raises their prices to the max and only politicians and nba players will be able to afford collecting war games
As an older gay, I wish to add a simple thing often overlooked.
Blisters.
When I was a kid, I used to build my units slowly. Few blisters at time. You could afford to buy and paint a bit, and in few go have a team you could deploy.
Not anymore.
Yeah, characters are essentially that - too bad they are going away from that, too. Compare old and new Archaon, old and new Teclis for WHFB/AOS.
Very good point, I remember in my early days that boxes were luxuries and it was mostly 1-3 units a trip I'd get. GW even had something like that with 3 or so plastic models in a box for usually 10-15 dollars, but no longer do they even do stuff like that, its just 10 infantry you want, 1 frickhuge ugly model, 1 special character you may not like to play with.
The boxes were for plastic troops each model copy of the other or 1 variation max.
The revolution came with the Chaos Warriors box.
were chaos wars before night gobbos?
either way, great boxes
>were chaos wars before night gobbos?
Afaik the CW was the first, more came thereafter.
The zombies and Skeleton ones were legendary, with enough bases you would get 40-50 models (some just a tomb or a hand sprouting from the ground) from a 20-undead box.
God, I wish there was a company that put out mid-era GW style undead.
They also increased the number of units and models needed for a "basic" game.
By a lot.
No idea about the rest of that stuff, but $300 worth of videogames can range from thousands of hours of entertainment to a single skin to literally nothing in gacha games.
The rules change so fast that nobody at my flgs can keep up with the endless stream of FAQs GW keeps shitting out.
We've all switched to onepagerules and use alot of third party models for stuff now.
GWs moronic shareholder board has decided that they want to go by the stupid and stale "we sell a lifestyle not a product" approach because they don´t understand shit about what their business peddles or their consumers, there´s no more than this to the last 5 years of decisions. Warhammer+, creating a dependence of the official page/channels by shitting out FAQs every other week and the unabashed favoritism rules wise of whatever is new and expensive. Next thing they´ll do is shittalk people that use third party bits or even those who scratchbuild them, because not kitting out your dudes with the thirty bucks a box weapons makes you a fake Warhammer Player®
I'm exhausted with everything to do with Warhammer as a whole. In a better world, it would have died back in 2010's.
The pricing is stupid, and absolutely the biggest impediment to getting people into the game, or continuing to engage with the model buying aspect once you’ve got your guys. Most people are down to drop $50-100 as an initial investment in something. Once you’re a committed hobbyist it makes more sense to commit financially, but asking people to pay multiple hundreds of dollars for plastic and then selling all the lore, art, and rules separately is insane. It’s not a matter of being able to afford it, it’s a matter of it being a terrible investment unless you’re already in deep. Every time I try and get people interested in it, pricing always becomes the biggest sticking point. It’s just bad business and I fear it’s being done intentionally to milk GW dry before it gets cannibalized.
I saw a guy on twitter who runs a FLGS get all petulant and pissy that people had the gall to dare question GW for increasing the price of paints while reducing the amount of paint in each pot. Lots of buzzwords to defend a brand like "entitled", "toxic" and the old go to "gatekeeping" -don't ask how that makes sense- and the dude was clearly expecting the paypigs to close ranks but most reactions were either a rational "you cannot sell a £30 to a 10 year old then tell them they need £40 in paints as their first purchase then tell them they need to do this 20 times to have a viable army, that killed WHFB" or simply "does your store stock GW? are you afraid the corpo master is watching?". It was pathetic.
The future has turned into the worst cyberpunk possible.
What's all this about woke I'm hearing?
the future is full of opportunities, if you fail to seize at least one of them it's probably your personal skill issue
Millennials don't let their kids play GW games any more, except the ones who are 3D printing their own armies.
Really? I’ve seen nothing but a massive surge in interest. They’re dropping new models more frequently, have a bunch of games supported, have licensed their IP for video games like 20 times in the last couple years alone
GW seems more popular now than ever
It’s the standard GW bloat, they do it every few years and frick things up until they can improve and bring people back. Last time it happened was maybe 08’ around the time of Matt Ward Grey Knights.
It all becomes not worth the price, and the rules or the support becomes awful in some way. Right now I’d say it’s that there is way too much support currently, everything changes too fast and there’s like five major releases regardless of which game you’re playing each month.
Back in 08’ a lot of people moved off to Warmahordes or Malifaux and right now it just looks like people are moving off to all sorts of things. My area it’s Blood Bowl and Gaslands, but I’m sure it will eventually settle into other games. We will see what happens, but GW will either finally die out this time or pick their shit back up and get it together again.
They’ve already gotten it together twice since I’ve been playing, so I’m sure when management changes again it will happen.
I've seen Bolt Action cropping up a fair amount in 40k circles recently, but admittedly it's mostly been Imperial Guard players and they've always been one step away from playing historicals even when 40k isn't trying to shit itself to death.
I turned my back on 35 years of 40k for Bolt Action and I haven't looked back.
-Faster playing
-Better balance
-no power creep
-Much much MUCH cheaper
-cleaner ruleset
The only GW games I still play are Kill Team and Necromunda and frankly I think I'm going to go back to Mordheim soon. This coming from someone with 5000+ points each of Nids, Tau, Orks, Marines and SoB.
I’d do the same but with other games. The problem is nobody plays those games
Build your own community, it's worth it.
>I’d do the same but with other games. The problem is nobody plays those games
As Gandhi said, "be the change you wish to see in the world". I live in a regional town in Tasmania Australia with under 100k population and we have a thriving Bolt Action community just because people are getting off their arses and heading to the games club every week.
Unless you live in a literal flyover cowtown you can spearhead a 'GW anonymous' recovery movement, amigo.
>Necromunda Community Edition
I see it is from Yaktribe, but I also see that i need to create a burner account, but the download says "no permission to download" it seems even if I do sign up I will be screwed in having to engage in digital dick sucking to get access.
Anybody got the current rules in PDF form?
Perhaps you need more practice on the internet? I registered and logged in to get the CE without issues.
I thought there would be digital dick sucking through kissing ass for likes or karma to get access. Time to make a burner email.
How do I build a community at the LGS?
I've been trying to get into OPR but even Warhammer fans won't try a free rulesystem as an alternative for dusting off their miniatures for 40k.
Found these rules called "Bolter Action" did they ever go far or are there better "stat sheets" that allow for using 40k miniatures with the Bolt Action game system?
I like the 40k miniatures. I just don't want them to mindlessly collect dust.
>How do I build a community at the LGS?
Make some friends there, have a laugh, mention this cool game you have, show them some painted minis. Get them to try it out, make sure they have a good time and that they win.
Slowly weave it into your game nights, if other people are interested draw them in. It's how I started Battletech locally.
Find time to make something basic, even id it takes a few weeks. Once you have a table you can get the ball rolling.
The thing is I have some models but warlord abandoned the game I think. It’s card based, so I don’t know how easy it is to find printable cards and tokens
Nice.
It doesn't hurt that I am genuinely fairly bad at wargames so I'm like a W factory. I was stillmanborn. Always picking beastmen/italy/orks/ariadna and building flavor lists.
When I win I its always some hail mary shit, and that is a lot of the fun.
>I've been trying to get into OPR but even Warhammer fans won't try a free rulesystem as an alternative for dusting off their miniatures for 40k
Sunk cost fallacy is one hell of a drug; if they try a free thing and enjoy it it will mean reconciling that they have been taken for absolute marks with all the books and expensive models they paypigged for.
Do people actually buy books for the rules in the age of PDFs?
People even pay extra to get the premium edition, which is the same shit but with different cover art
I can understand buying books for the pretty pictures, but paying for the rules when everything is easily accessible online just seems silly.
My then-GF bought me the 4th Ed collectors hardcover for my 33rd birthday, imagine how happy I was to get 2 certs of authenticity 1500 prints apart.
GW is a company that makes money in spite of itself, not because. They’re fricking incompetent.
>Do people actually buy books for the rules in the age of PDFs?
If the book covers rules, and armylists for wargames then yeah I'd buy them. Only after downloading the PDF and playing a few games I will.
That's basically it for me. I have trouble reading PDFs for some reason but I can get absorbed in a physical book as old-grog-boomish as it sounds. I think there is an "analogue appeal" to books over PDFs and tabletop games over vidya.
t.1999 zoomoid
You aren't wrong, I can pour into a book but pdfs make my eyes glaze over.
>1991 millenialoid
Reading on a screen = work, reading a nice book = leisure. Simple as.
1994 millennial here, I feel you
Honorary Gen X
>Modern GW
>Selling pdfs instead of making you buy the physical book and redeem a code for their bullshit app
>buying PDFs
>How do I build a community at the LGS?
Study the rules inside out, bring 2 armies, run small, simple, fast-paced games. Be an ambassador. Play other people's games as well- nobody likes a single-platform politician.
Basically be like a GW redshirt but you're not a sexless weirdo driven by sales targets and more a normal guy passionate about his game and looking to share the love.
GW has lots of good competition now and everyone shilling for and against them on youtube are troons. Bad image.
Also anyone with any sense is 3d printing.
Havent played in many years due to """life"""" but have been keeping tabs on the community since.
Have a few friends who attend tourneys and club matches in my country frequently, and from what they are saying it seems that "oldhammer" are becoming more popular in clubs. 2nd ed and 3.5-4th ed mix is being played by more people in the local game clubs.
I dont have a precise reason, its a combination of many things already known here. High price models, some are not fond of replacing everything with primaris, rules, codex creep, easier to re-use old armies, simply the allure of playing 2nd ed with all its quirks etc. etc.
same
oh, forgot to mention that I was specifically talking about WH40k.
4th ed was beautifully balanced once you figure in the late edition assault rules. IMHO its the best 40k ever got. People still speak in hushed and reverent tones regarding the Nid 'dakkafex' and the 'build your own chapter' Marines.
>dozens of armies
Clearly you live in the only country on earth where GW has decided a $10/model average price point is unacceptable.
for whatever reason GW jacked up their prices back during the Aus mining boom to skim the cream off the top of the inflated dollar, force an embargo and they never lowered them since,
Nah, GW has always been stupidly expensive in Oz.
Back when I were a grot buying metal minis in the mid 80's it was bad enough but you could excuse it by saying 'well metal is heavy and costs a lost to ship'.
Not only is polystyrene cheap as frick to ship, it's cheap as frick to buy, store, handle, import and cast. Don't get me started on the 'dies cost a lot and need to recoup their cost' bullshit. Polystyrene dies cost maybe five thousand GBP at most and are made 'in house' by a separate company under license, which then leases the physical dies back to GW, which then claims tax breaks on licensing and 'equipment depreciation'.
When Gorkamorka came out, Adrian Wood had a plastic caster set up at a community event and was pumping out Ork vehicle sprues for free. And that was twenty years ago.
I work in dental technology so I am on pretty much the cutting edge of prosthetics, 3D printing, digital scanning, rapid prototyping and small-scale custom manufacture. I have a pretty good cost picture on manufacturing inputs. Those sprues cost less to make than the box they come in, I'm talking maybe 50c Australian a sprue, tops. Trust me on this. GW are c**ts.
> Polystyrene dies cost maybe five thousand GBP at most
When you try to explain that to the delusional fools they either call you a liar or say that a set of dies is half a million euros as if the sprues are stamped out of steel. Every excuse they can come out to keep lying to themselves. There are so many people thousands and thousands of euros deep in this shit that their only way forward is to keep coping, no matter how intimate are you with the manufacturing process it will all come to in their minds as you being poor and jealous of their half a car worth of plastic, collective insanity.
One could get a siocast machine and start making minis at a semi-industrial scale in a garage nowadays. Technology made things pretty cheap and easy.