>believes the people of stratholme can be saved >abandons them to their fate and lets arthas kill them all
he either didn't genuinely think they could be saved or just wasn't willing to go against the prince, either way it's a bad look for uther
Arthas made the logical decision. But the problem was that paladins are supposed to value morals over logic because they get their power from their convictions.
This was all part of Ner'zhul's plan, he wanted to force Arthas to make a horrible, traumatizing decision that would undermine his core values as a paladin and distance him from the Light.
It just didn't make sense in the context of the devs trying to push Jaina as an Alliance character in WoW. Jaina obviously gained some sympathies for the Horde after she fought with them at the Battle of Mount Hyjal and Theramore under Jaina was supposed to be a sort of neutral Casablanca-like city-state and it makes sense that she would work with orcs to overthrow her father to bring Theramore back to neutrality rather than let it be used as a beachhead for a war with the Horde. Then the devs just made her an Alliance character hostile to the Horde because she's human and human = alliance.
>Hey dad, while you were fricking around, I saved our people, allied with orcs and stopped the annihilation of our planet. Now we're finally at peace. The war between orcs and humans is over! >lol, I'm just going to ignore you and kill orcs, because they're savage or some shit.
Dealin was a fricking moron.
Uther didn’t do anything wrong. Arthas’ disbanding of the Knights of the Silver Hand and fragmentation of his forces was a strategic victory for the Scourge. What happens inside Stratholme is moot.
More like Uther didn't do anything. At all
Genociding an entire city was probably extreme, but you can't just refuse to address the problem and hope it solves itself
So does anyone even remember what the rest of the plot is? Every single wc3 thread is about Arthas and what he did in Stratholme, which happens in the first 5 mins of the game. No one discusses the orcs, the undead, the night elves (which suck), the blood elves.
>undead
Slaughter a bunch of innocents and summon demons >orcs
Save tauren, kill night elves, fight demons >night elves
Frick everything up for 5 missions, fix everything in 2 >blood elves
Who gives a shit? >night elves 2
Stop Illidan from blowing up the planet >undead 2
Become the Lich King
Neither of them. Arthas did what he thought was right with the extra information and context he gained by going to Andorhal(?) while Uther did what he thought was right as a virtuous paladin who didn't know the full extent of the Plague of Undeath. Jaina, however, has all the context that Arthas does but refuses to help him or even explain it to Uther while Arthas is busy starting the Purge. She literally chose the worst parts of both the mens' arguments and put them together for a full moron experience. Frick Jaina.
Both of them, for being too prideful to listen to the other and work together towards either solution. That point was set up from the very beginning of the campaign. Both of their suggested courses of action are disastrous because they're in a lose/lose situation, but these idiots managed to turn that into a double-loss by dividing their forces.
Arthas was a grown man, he was responsible for his own behaviour. At that age he should have realised the responsibilities of being a paladin, one of which is definitely "do not genocide your own people"
Perhaps what we're seeing her is a conflict between the role of a Prince, a would-be-king, who needs to do practical and realistic things for the greater good of the people; verse the role of a Paladin, who needs to embody an even higher good of idealistic Good.
But I would argue that the institutions of Lordaeron and Terenas were aware of this conflict and in fact intended on it in order to mould Arthas into the greatest kind of King, one who could recognise moral concepts higher than mere survival. But alas, instead Arthas became a debased Paladin obsessed with pragmatics, which is a worthless thing.
>be random villager sleeping in your bed >suddenly your door gets blown the frick out >ENTER >as you're stumbling back and forth trying to make sense of the situation you see your prince staring you down, hammer ready >the last thing you hear as he bashes your head in is "Your pain shall be legendary!"
He dindu nuffin!
It's a lose-lose situation.. but Arthas ultimately made the right call. That being said, you'd think an experienced leader like Uther would have seen Arthas was panicked and would have tried to get him to calm down before just going off on him
>entire campaign establishes that if you get the plague you die rapidly and turn into an infected undead >massive population center has the potential to turn into a tide of undead that could easily spread throughout the kingdom and possibly all of the northern kingdoms >uther, who has been no nonsense up to this point including zealously killing orcs and undead, suddenly goes NOOOO WE CANT JUST KILL THEM >jaina also leaves arthas, but doesnt even fricking hesitate to kill her own father and hundreds of her kinsmen after getting to kalimdor >reminder jaina was also killing scourge with arthas up until this point >arthas slaughtering the population of stratholme actually did stem the tide of the scourge massively and allowed for a direct counterattack on their stronghold in northrend >uther apparently sits around with his limp dick until arthas comes back as a death knight and kills him
arthas did nothing wrong
Arthas: Glad you could bake it, Uther.
Uther: Watch your tone with me, boy. You may be the waiter, but I'm still your superior as a chef.
Arthas: As if I could forget. Listen, Uther, there's something about the cake you should
know.
Arthas: Oh no. It's too late. These muffins have all been overgrazed. They may look fine now, but it's a matter of time before they turn into paperweights.
Uther: What?
Arthas: This entire buffet must be purged.
Uther: How can you even consider that? There's got to be some other way.
Arthas: Damn it, Uther. As your future sous-chef I order you to purge this buffet.
Uther: You are not my sous-chef yet, boy. Nor would I obey that command if you were!
Arthas: Then I must consider this an act of work misconduct.
Uther: Misconduct? Have you lost your mind, Arthas?
Arthas: Have I? Lord Uther, by my right of succession and sovereignty of my spatula, I hereby relieve you from your command and suspend your chefs from service.
Jaina: Arthas, you can't just...
Arthas: It's done! Those of you who have the will to save this restaurant, follow me. The rest of you... get out of my sight.
Uther: You've just crossed a terrible union, Arthas
Arthas: Jaina?
Jaina: I'm sorry, Arthas. I can't watch you cook this.
>protests for all of 3 seconds before describing things in such detail that the guardrails needed to step in and stop this orc-crazed prostitute
jesus christ jaina show some self respect
Ok, reloaded the blocked part, she has an imagination that one.
>protests for all of 3 seconds before describing things in such detail that the guardrails needed to step in and stop this orc-crazed prostitute
jesus christ jaina show some self respect
Considering that to this day in Warcraft canonical lore there is no cure to undeath (20 years after that game came out), Arthas was right. Uther had no alternative to suggest because there is none, even now and not only back then.
Uther, we've been over this a thousand times since this game came out: >Option A: Kill the innocent civilians who ate or touched the grain, minimizing (if not erasing) the reach of the plague and soldier mortality rate
vs >Option B: Wait until the innocent civilians who ate or touched the grain become zombies, becoming incomparably more dangerous, massively increasing soldier mortality rate, with the added possibility of expanding the plague, and with catastrophic consequences if even a single one of them escapes
Arthas was 100% in the right, and thinking like a King, who has to make the hard choices, while Uther was 100% in the wrong, pretending that your convictions are more important than saving lives.
Arthas suspending the Knights of the Silver Hand was also 100% the correct choice. The purpose of the organization is to serve both the greater good and to save the lives of the population they swore to protect. If they couldn't put their luxury of moral grandstanding over the future of the Kingdom (and even the human species), then they failed their purpose and became a hindrance to their cause and goal.
Uther is nothing more than a "do better" type of character. Of course, cucks are gonna agree with him while claiming "I'm sure a peaceful solution where we all live happily is possible!".
Even back when it released, when I was 13, I knew that Arthas made the right choice. Sure, his later decisions were a lot worse, but he was definitely in the right at Stratholme.
Everyone. That was literally the point. They played right into Mal'ganis and Ner-zhul's plan. Arthas was too hasty in pushing for the full purge and Uther was too subdued to stand up to Arthas more. The entire crux was Arthas, an inexperienced Paladin, telling Uther, a VERY experienced Paladin, that in order to stop a disease they needed to kill people instead of just doing what Paladins had done for years by healing them. Arthas offered no proof except his own word and when faced with opposition he immediately jumped for the nuclear option and shunned Uther and the Paladins.
>in order to stop a disease they needed to kill people instead of just doing what Paladins had done for years by healing them
but you can't heal the plague
There's a longass questline where you need the intervention of a fricking na'aru in order to just save a guy's soul when he's infected - you can't even stop him from dying, you can just stop his soul from going to MegaHell
>but you can't heal the plague
And Arthas didn't adequately state that. He just started saying that there wasn't any hope of saving the civilians and they NEEDED to be killed. When Uther told him how absurd that was Arthas didn't try to explain, he simply dismissed Uther and the Paladins like an angry toddler ecause Uther said he'd never do something that insane even if Arthas was King. If Uther had actually pressed him on it a bit further then they probably would have reached a mutual understanding, but instead Uther just leaves and opts to try and return later to try and help Stratholme after Arthas has left.
Is Shadowlands the pinnacle of awful writing in WoW? Will it ever be outdone? I ask because I genuinely don't know if Dragonflight is worse lore-raping-wise since I didn't bother playing it.
You can pick out every single unit in a large battle; the silhouettes are clear and the colours are obvious so you always know what units are on the screen and which player owns those units.
I believe you just have shit taste.
Arthas for not actually properly explaining what the frick was going on and just throwing a shitfit since the last mission cause the stress of defending Hearthglen mentally broke him.
>believes the people of stratholme can be saved
>abandons them to their fate and lets arthas kill them all
he either didn't genuinely think they could be saved or just wasn't willing to go against the prince, either way it's a bad look for uther
You, the player, were supposed to stop playing so Arthas would never become a Death Knight.
Spec Ops moment
>Warcraft III OVERWRITTEN by Reforged
>Spec Ops DELISTED from Steam
Metabros, we got too wienery...
Arthas made the logical decision. But the problem was that paladins are supposed to value morals over logic because they get their power from their convictions.
This was all part of Ner'zhul's plan, he wanted to force Arthas to make a horrible, traumatizing decision that would undermine his core values as a paladin and distance him from the Light.
picunrel
Things would be a lot different if Jaina was a female goblin.
Uther did nothing and did the wrong thing. Arthas took action and did what he thought was necessary.
the level designer who claims arthas was in the wrong is literally trolling through random wc3 streams to argue about it lmao
Me in the back
He's STILL going on about it? Fricking hell that guy is obsessed.
His reasoning is awful too.
>uhh, why didn't he just wait and SEE if they were actually infected?
>uhhhhh he could've left and found a cure, there HAD to be another way.
>entire continent overrun with the scourge
>well atleast we weren't RUDE arthas
He took down the original video lol
(at least it seems like it, doesn't show up in search anymore)
The guy on the right is what the soldiers looked like while listening to Arthas and Uther bicker.
Athas and Jaina infront
Kael at the back
Me on the right.
uther
fact
>no don’t kil innocents
>let’s her own homecity get raided by orcs to stick it to her dead
t.proudmoore
more like proudbawd.
Jaina needs way more hate
It made sense in the context of the campaign.
It just didn't make sense in the context of the devs trying to push Jaina as an Alliance character in WoW. Jaina obviously gained some sympathies for the Horde after she fought with them at the Battle of Mount Hyjal and Theramore under Jaina was supposed to be a sort of neutral Casablanca-like city-state and it makes sense that she would work with orcs to overthrow her father to bring Theramore back to neutrality rather than let it be used as a beachhead for a war with the Horde. Then the devs just made her an Alliance character hostile to the Horde because she's human and human = alliance.
Wait a minute. Arthas tapped THAT?! All is forgiven.
>Hey dad, while you were fricking around, I saved our people, allied with orcs and stopped the annihilation of our planet. Now we're finally at peace. The war between orcs and humans is over!
>lol, I'm just going to ignore you and kill orcs, because they're savage or some shit.
Dealin was a fricking moron.
Uther didn’t do anything wrong. Arthas’ disbanding of the Knights of the Silver Hand and fragmentation of his forces was a strategic victory for the Scourge. What happens inside Stratholme is moot.
More like Uther didn't do anything. At all
Genociding an entire city was probably extreme, but you can't just refuse to address the problem and hope it solves itself
As usual its the moralizing but doing nothing Palacuck.
So does anyone even remember what the rest of the plot is? Every single wc3 thread is about Arthas and what he did in Stratholme, which happens in the first 5 mins of the game. No one discusses the orcs, the undead, the night elves (which suck), the blood elves.
Garithos did nothing wrong and Kael was a cry baby
>we humans have to stick together
>this is somehow bad
>never trust an elf
>trusts an elf and gets backstabbed
>sides with his fricking enemies over those that are his allies
hes a fricking moron
>undead
Slaughter a bunch of innocents and summon demons
>orcs
Save tauren, kill night elves, fight demons
>night elves
Frick everything up for 5 missions, fix everything in 2
>blood elves
Who gives a shit?
>night elves 2
Stop Illidan from blowing up the planet
>undead 2
Become the Lich King
>blood elves
crackheads looking for a new dealer after their supply got taken from them
Are the Elves the baddies (beside the undead)?
What did Maiev do with Illidan for 10k years?
Watched him silently. Night elf patience and all that.
Yjk
proceed to frick up mundane tasks in infuriating, subtle ways that piss him off and make him even angrier
Pranced around his cell wearing only a thong while going on about how the lesbian orgy last night was awesome
>game is based off key components of arthurian legend
>name two of the main characters "Arthus" and "Uthur"
who writes this shit?
honestly every character in wc3 was moronic which genuinely humanizes them
they all made human mistakes
Glad you could rake it, Uther.
Neither of them. Arthas did what he thought was right with the extra information and context he gained by going to Andorhal(?) while Uther did what he thought was right as a virtuous paladin who didn't know the full extent of the Plague of Undeath. Jaina, however, has all the context that Arthas does but refuses to help him or even explain it to Uther while Arthas is busy starting the Purge. She literally chose the worst parts of both the mens' arguments and put them together for a full moron experience. Frick Jaina.
Arthas was not Uther's king yet, anon. Nor would he obey that order even if he was.
The people were in the wrong, they should've just vaxxed so they wouldn't become infected
Father... Is it over?
At long last. No one played shadowlands my son, so we can just ignore that part.
Both of them, for being too prideful to listen to the other and work together towards either solution. That point was set up from the very beginning of the campaign. Both of their suggested courses of action are disastrous because they're in a lose/lose situation, but these idiots managed to turn that into a double-loss by dividing their forces.
Uther because prince outranks a paladin.
Arthas did the right thing. The people were infected and had already eaten the grain, purging them was the only option.
Arthas was a grown man, he was responsible for his own behaviour. At that age he should have realised the responsibilities of being a paladin, one of which is definitely "do not genocide your own people"
Perhaps what we're seeing her is a conflict between the role of a Prince, a would-be-king, who needs to do practical and realistic things for the greater good of the people; verse the role of a Paladin, who needs to embody an even higher good of idealistic Good.
But I would argue that the institutions of Lordaeron and Terenas were aware of this conflict and in fact intended on it in order to mould Arthas into the greatest kind of King, one who could recognise moral concepts higher than mere survival. But alas, instead Arthas became a debased Paladin obsessed with pragmatics, which is a worthless thing.
>be random villager sleeping in your bed
>suddenly your door gets blown the frick out
>ENTER
>as you're stumbling back and forth trying to make sense of the situation you see your prince staring you down, hammer ready
>the last thing you hear as he bashes your head in is "Your pain shall be legendary!"
He dindu nuffin!
>the last thing you hear as he bashes your head in is "Your pain shall be legendary!"
That's what he says as a Death Knight, not as a Paladin.
It's a lose-lose situation.. but Arthas ultimately made the right call. That being said, you'd think an experienced leader like Uther would have seen Arthas was panicked and would have tried to get him to calm down before just going off on him
Both Uther and Jaina were traitors, end of.
Jaina is the biggest traitor to mankind
>Lmao.
Now ask her why she let orcs destroy the capital of her father do those lives not matter? hypocritical b***h
Already broke.
It sounds like she's being sarcastic.
Dunno, rather flimsy case she is making for that orc whoopsie.
Ask her how many BGCs she can take at once.
Ok, this one was entertaining.
she's thralls' wienersleeve
And the punchline.
fricking bawd
You have no idea. I'm not even retrying the chat, she just delivers gold on first prompt.
Yep. And Jaina is a massive hypocrite.
What was his problem
He's into feet.
>entire campaign establishes that if you get the plague you die rapidly and turn into an infected undead
>massive population center has the potential to turn into a tide of undead that could easily spread throughout the kingdom and possibly all of the northern kingdoms
>uther, who has been no nonsense up to this point including zealously killing orcs and undead, suddenly goes NOOOO WE CANT JUST KILL THEM
>jaina also leaves arthas, but doesnt even fricking hesitate to kill her own father and hundreds of her kinsmen after getting to kalimdor
>reminder jaina was also killing scourge with arthas up until this point
>arthas slaughtering the population of stratholme actually did stem the tide of the scourge massively and allowed for a direct counterattack on their stronghold in northrend
>uther apparently sits around with his limp dick until arthas comes back as a death knight and kills him
arthas did nothing wrong
Arthas: Glad you could bake it, Uther.
Uther: Watch your tone with me, boy. You may be the waiter, but I'm still your superior as a chef.
Arthas: As if I could forget. Listen, Uther, there's something about the cake you should
know.
Arthas: Oh no. It's too late. These muffins have all been overgrazed. They may look fine now, but it's a matter of time before they turn into paperweights.
Uther: What?
Arthas: This entire buffet must be purged.
Uther: How can you even consider that? There's got to be some other way.
Arthas: Damn it, Uther. As your future sous-chef I order you to purge this buffet.
Uther: You are not my sous-chef yet, boy. Nor would I obey that command if you were!
Arthas: Then I must consider this an act of work misconduct.
Uther: Misconduct? Have you lost your mind, Arthas?
Arthas: Have I? Lord Uther, by my right of succession and sovereignty of my spatula, I hereby relieve you from your command and suspend your chefs from service.
Jaina: Arthas, you can't just...
Arthas: It's done! Those of you who have the will to save this restaurant, follow me. The rest of you... get out of my sight.
Uther: You've just crossed a terrible union, Arthas
Arthas: Jaina?
Jaina: I'm sorry, Arthas. I can't watch you cook this.
You can't post that without the animation.
Love it.
This ends with the Hulk smirk edit, doesn't it?
It's entertaining but, it ends soon.
Ask her what she thinks of Aggra
LMAO
That's all folks, she got too steamy for a PG audience.
I didn’t knew this could happen lol
Ok, reloaded the blocked part, she has an imagination that one.
>protests for all of 3 seconds before describing things in such detail that the guardrails needed to step in and stop this orc-crazed prostitute
jesus christ jaina show some self respect
The Jailer
Considering that to this day in Warcraft canonical lore there is no cure to undeath (20 years after that game came out), Arthas was right. Uther had no alternative to suggest because there is none, even now and not only back then.
Fricking hell Jaina.
Frick off, moron.
Woah Thrall easy. She is just being honest.
Uther, we've been over this a thousand times since this game came out:
>Option A: Kill the innocent civilians who ate or touched the grain, minimizing (if not erasing) the reach of the plague and soldier mortality rate
vs
>Option B: Wait until the innocent civilians who ate or touched the grain become zombies, becoming incomparably more dangerous, massively increasing soldier mortality rate, with the added possibility of expanding the plague, and with catastrophic consequences if even a single one of them escapes
Arthas was 100% in the right, and thinking like a King, who has to make the hard choices, while Uther was 100% in the wrong, pretending that your convictions are more important than saving lives.
Arthas suspending the Knights of the Silver Hand was also 100% the correct choice. The purpose of the organization is to serve both the greater good and to save the lives of the population they swore to protect. If they couldn't put their luxury of moral grandstanding over the future of the Kingdom (and even the human species), then they failed their purpose and became a hindrance to their cause and goal.
Uther is nothing more than a "do better" type of character. Of course, cucks are gonna agree with him while claiming "I'm sure a peaceful solution where we all live happily is possible!".
Even back when it released, when I was 13, I knew that Arthas made the right choice. Sure, his later decisions were a lot worse, but he was definitely in the right at Stratholme.
Everyone. That was literally the point. They played right into Mal'ganis and Ner-zhul's plan. Arthas was too hasty in pushing for the full purge and Uther was too subdued to stand up to Arthas more. The entire crux was Arthas, an inexperienced Paladin, telling Uther, a VERY experienced Paladin, that in order to stop a disease they needed to kill people instead of just doing what Paladins had done for years by healing them. Arthas offered no proof except his own word and when faced with opposition he immediately jumped for the nuclear option and shunned Uther and the Paladins.
>in order to stop a disease they needed to kill people instead of just doing what Paladins had done for years by healing them
but you can't heal the plague
There's a longass questline where you need the intervention of a fricking na'aru in order to just save a guy's soul when he's infected - you can't even stop him from dying, you can just stop his soul from going to MegaHell
>MegaHell
Why, oh why did they create that? Fricking nu-Blizzard
To be fair, before Shadowlands it was just "hell" and Hel if you want to be REAL specific
>but you can't heal the plague
And Arthas didn't adequately state that. He just started saying that there wasn't any hope of saving the civilians and they NEEDED to be killed. When Uther told him how absurd that was Arthas didn't try to explain, he simply dismissed Uther and the Paladins like an angry toddler ecause Uther said he'd never do something that insane even if Arthas was King. If Uther had actually pressed him on it a bit further then they probably would have reached a mutual understanding, but instead Uther just leaves and opts to try and return later to try and help Stratholme after Arthas has left.
jaina.
all she needed was to give arthas some succ so he calms down and rationally convinces uther that he is right.
As we have seen earlier the only thing on her mind is green mastodon pecs
You now remember Sylvanas hashtag girlbossing all over Arthas' soul in shadowlands and then annihilating his disgusting male cis soul out of existence
I don't! Because the last Warcraft game I played was The Frozen Throne and I consider everything after TFT to be fake and gay.
well, now you are burdened with the unfortunate knowledge of that transpiring
same WoW will never be canon
Is Shadowlands the pinnacle of awful writing in WoW? Will it ever be outdone? I ask because I genuinely don't know if Dragonflight is worse lore-raping-wise since I didn't bother playing it.
Eve though the mission tried to portray Arthas as the villain he was 100% right. Uther had a woman's emotionality on the matter
Say the word
WC3 is a great game but it looks like utter trash nowadays
Those graphics aged absolutely poorly
You can pick out every single unit in a large battle; the silhouettes are clear and the colours are obvious so you always know what units are on the screen and which player owns those units.
I believe you just have shit taste.
Worst opinion ITT
N
Arthas for not actually properly explaining what the frick was going on and just throwing a shitfit since the last mission cause the stress of defending Hearthglen mentally broke him.
>Who was in the wrong here?
Blizzard. I mean, 100-foot tall characters? Really?