Think about it. In a world filled with giant, powerful monsters, why would you ever get close with a piddly little blade? If you absolutely must go into melee, spears are the only sensible choice
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Sword are worthless in fantasy
In a world filled with giant, powerful monsters, humans realistically would not exist and couldn't fight them anyway.
Maybe if they are magical too sure, but humans exterminated megafauna before civilization in any ecosystem where the megafauna didn't evolve alongside us, as in Africa.
You know what megafauna wasnt? Flying hyperintelligent monsters that breathe fire, it also didnt regenerate or was immune to nonmagical weapons or whatever else
Megafauna was big animals, and animals are fricking moronic and also generally driven more by caution than killing anything that annoys them.
You know what big monsters are? Not that. Monsters dont care about "oh if I fight this I might break a limb and will be worse at hunting for a bit so I better run away", monsters will chase you to the ends of the earth if they have so much as a HP point left and then feast on your entrails, because theyre magical abominations spawned by evil.
You arent going to drive a hydra off by making lots of noise. You arent going to scare off a chimera by throwing some rocks and trying to look big. Dragons arent scared by fire.
Hyperintelligent dragons probably wouldn't go out of their way to frick with humans. Any giant monster that's hyper intelligent could be reasoned with. Hydra and chimera aren't that big and only marginally more dangerous than elephants, rhinos, and hippos and absolutely could get fricked up by a troop of human.
>Hydra and chimera aren't that big and only marginally more dangerous than elephants, rhinos, and hippos
Lmfao you what? Anon, a singular chimera or hydra would be an extinction event for any real life ecosystem, its a nigh immortal hypercarnivore of size and strength that nothing in real life can even compare to, let alone its other supernatural abilities whether it be poison or fire breath or whatever else.
This is what I always loved about Monster Hunter. To fight colossal hyperaggresive beasts with elemental bending abilities you don't send in 100 levymen with shitsticks.
You send in the specialist hunter chad whose entire culture makes a sport of hunting said beasts, equipped with weapons so huge they can actually harm the monster, wearing gear stitched together from the beasts natural competitors.
How do you expect to kill a Hydra without a big dick sword of hydra slaying?
Did you literally just try and say a regenerating snake-dragon that breaths fire is Marginally more dangerous than an Elephant, rhino or Hippo?
I know you are some kind of autistic fat moron, but you do realise "Breathes fire" effectively kills literally every single attempt at melee combat from a human army.. You'd need fricking hundreds of troops to fight that, because a single gout of flame would cause formation fighting to buckle entirely.
Now imagine if that fricker can fly. That is what a Chimera does.
>Now imagine if that fricker can fly. That is what a Chimera does.
Man, that sounds really dangerous, if only we could send in a singular chad on a magic flying steed to fight it with his superior mobility....
Yeah, you send the magical chad with the magical steed, not the 100 morons with pointy sticks.
Anon thats a joke about Bellerophon and Pegasus, you know, the guys who killed the chimera in greek myth?
Yes? of course I know the myth of Bellerophon, it's my entire point. You don't send the local levy to kill a chimera, you send your fricking hero, who is usually either a prince or demi-god.
just give em guns
Guns are for giga pussies. Yes, even in real life.
who said anything about the blade being piddly
That looks moronic.
suits you perfectly then
That looks moronic
>Lady night
>Huge sword
Into the cringe complication
Yeah. Literally "Dark Souls Youtube content provider" tier, you know the ones.
Who's the artist for these?
What's the point of this dogshit weapon? You take away every advantage a sword has (portability, use as a sidearm) just to make it a shittier spear. The fact that it was in use for less than a century is really telling of how bad a weapon it is.
Anyone can grab a spear by the pole and instantly render the wielder useless. This is only stopped by the fact that spears are used in formation. Try doing that with a sharp sword.
They stopped being used as the advent of firearms sharply took off soon after, quickly and eventually rendering both weapons useless.
Wait, you're saying spears are countered by grabbing the shaft then saying halberds are the perfect weapon? Do you not see the contradiction here.
This guy is baiting, no rational person would present the arguments he has. He started out saying that pre-gunpowder swords were king and immediately pivoted to "why would you use a spear if you have a gun?"
No person with a human IQ would make these arguments in earnest.
No, moron. I even pointed out that pikes had their golden age alongside the gunpowder era.
You're the one that pivoted the discussion to the Swiss Guard, who would be stupid to discuss WITHOUT bringing up their use of muskets. I kept this discrete and segmented away from the rest of my argument. Since yes, I wasn't intending to talk about gunpowder.
Asia has been using giant swords for a far longer time you uneducated dip
>the katanahomosexual has arrived
>The only way swords can compete is if you make them as big as spears
SpearGODS win again
>the only way spears lose is if you make a weapon that's vastly superior in every way but cost
?
Giant blades are peak "overcompensating for weak frail little human body" tier.
Fantasy is full of swords because swords are the iconic weapon of the period of history most fantasy draws inspiration from. I agree fighting griffins, werewolves, dragons, 7 foot tall bodybuilder orcs and hobgoblins, witches, demons etc. A sword is probably not one of your best options.
In a world filled with giant, powerful monsters people would wield giant, powerful swords.
Not every monster will be huge. Also swords are more suited for adventurers than spears. Spears are good for formation fighting which adventurers mostly don’t do.
*kills you with ease in a dungeon corridor*
>breaks his spear
>kicks his shield
>steps on him
What now?
How are you supposed to even get close enough to me to do that with your rinky dinky little sword lmao
I cut you spear with the sword. Or the blow will make you drop it. How is that a hard concept?
>cut the spear with a sword
you have no idea how any of this works, do you?
>parry the spear against the wall
>holding the spear against the wall with your sword, using most of your balance and strength to do so
Ok, I push forward with my shield knocking you to the ground and putting my spear through your heart while you impotently thrash
>using most of your balance and strength to do so
Are you serious? I simply use the stark for superior leverage and break the shaft with a kick. If you tried to free your weapon you'd suddenly fall back at that moment.
Ok. You don't know what you're talking about. Why do you assume your opponent will be so in awe of your sword that they won't fight back and just let you kill them?
Spears just aren't very practical weapons in a tight space like you're describing. It'd be like that episode of Goblin Slayer where the woman bashes her sword on the wall happening every attack.
So the only way a spear wins in a tight space is if the guy with a proper weapon is stupid? Just bait a stab with your shield around the corner and then grab his spear. He's dead.
Spears aren't flexible weapons, they're made for malnourished soldiers to brace in the ground when cavalry charges.
I really don't think you know what you're talking about. If we're basing any of this off real life you're very, very incorrect.
If we're talking fantasy, then yeah, the fantasy that swords were a main weapon is a fine fantasy to entertain.
Every highly trained group of warriors before gunpowder used swords or halberds(sword on a stick.) Roman legions were the most technologically advanced army in their time period and exclusively used swords in melee. The Landsknecht were some of Europe's most elite warriors and regularly charged hordes of spears with only greatsword and halberds.
The only reason you'd want a spear is if a man on horseback is charging you. And only if you're a malnourished, grain-fed commoner too weak to waste good weapons on. This was their only meaningful historical use up until we abandoned spears.
Otherwise, why not just brace with a halberd instead? Which is again, essentially a sword or axe on a stick, combining the only useful aspect of a spear with the manyfold advantages of a sword or axe.
Since we're talking about tight dungeons, halberds are out of the question. Therefore a sword, mace, axe, or any other flexible weapon is your best bet.
>Every highly trained group of warriors before gunpowder used swords
Keyword being "highly trained" and "group."
Obviously not everyone in an army is going to be meatfed, six-foot tall warrior men. But numbers are still a huge advantage. Hence, the peasant with a spear being a mainstay in most past militaries.
This is also why you don't see spears used by elite, highly trained groups. Which was my point.
>This is also why you don't see spears used by elite, highly trained groups.
You're right, the swiss guard were a bunch of pussy homosexuals that got ran off the battlefield literally every time they fought
You mean the Swiss Guard that predominately used halberds and muskets, to the point that they still carry halberds in the modern day? Exactly like I said in my original post?
No, supporting groups of peasants does not lump them in with the elite warriors they're stationed with.
You can even see the swords and halberds in the image you posted, while it's predominately lightly armored peasants who hold the pikes.
Why would you make your opinion so easy to discard? I literally don't think a single thing you said was correct. Plus saying they used muskets when we were specifically talking about pre-gunpowder (a distinction YOU made
) is honestly sad.
Halberds were spears with weird tips
The roman army wasn’t that great at straight up duelling they just were great engineers and had proper logistics and discipline unlike most of the people they fought l+ they got their shit kicked in way more than you’d think (especially by people with elephants which are the closest thing to fantasy monsters)
Landshneckts basically used their swords as spears and took advantage of the tight pike formations that were used at the time
There are treaties on spear fighting written before the printing press, as in when writing stuff on paper was done for the rich and aristocracy
Finally, the experimental proof:
Spears/Halberds/bec du corbin/etc.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maces> swords> sharp farming tools
So the Romans were amazing at logistics, but pointlessly used copious amounts of extra metal to forge swords, instead of making the supposedly-superior spears for far less?
And the Landsknecht are bad proof because... they beat entire waves of spear-wielders with their swords? Are you reading what you're typing?
Halberds are nothing like a spear besides both being on a stick. The spear is a tiny speck of metal on a stick. A halberd can be a axe/mace/sword combo on the end of a reinforced pole at its best, and any subset of that at its worst.
As for the shitty video, see:
Because the Swiss Guard persisted into the gunpowder era, and are well-known for their feats with firearms. Thus making it relevant to their success. Are you stupid?
Pikes are also predominately from the gunpowder era, a refining of the spear to its real use. Stopping cavalry charges and nothing else.
>So the Romans were amazing at logistics, but pointlessly used copious amounts of extra metal to forge swords, instead of making the supposedly-superior spears for far less?
Because tiny swords happened to be optimal for use with their massive shields, which is really their main weapon if you think about it. On their own sword are nothing.
Yes, sword and shield is a staple of fantasy, and was once incredibly practical in reality. Groups like the Landsknecht and Flamberges of the Swiss Guard, as well as Chinese History in general, prove the utility of two-handed swords. Another staple.
When the frick are you having people fight one-handed with a sword with no shield? That's the entire point of optimizing the blade for one-handed use. Maybe self-defense in a more civilized area, but small shields and parrying side-arms have always existed too.
Swordgays literally believe that a one handed sword and nothing else allows them to defeat someone with any other weapon. They consume too much anime, that can be the only explanation for it.
When has anyone ever unironically said this? I am the only "swordgay" in this thread and I have bluntly pointed out that using a one-handed sword with nothing in your offhand is almost completely pointless, bar situations where you can't have a shield.
Weapons have strengths and weakness. This is the whole point of balancing them with crunch.
>throwing spears
>halberds are spears
Moron.
Halberds are wielded more similarly to a quarterstaff. If you tried to hold a halberd like a spear, you'd lose balance on it and your opponent would easily control your weapon. It's not weighted to be held like a spear, and using it like one wouldn't allow you to use anything but the tip of the weapon.
However, they're still perfectly capable of being braced to stop a cavalry charge, thus utterly outcompeting spears. And how are you so stupid to call a weapon that's literally an axe/sword/mace on a stick a "spear?" Is a quarterstaff a spear without a point? Are you stupid? Halberds are far more similar to a sword/axe on a stick than anything else
>>The gladius was used almost exclusively for stabbing like a short spear
>a one-handed sword is a spear
Okay, you're either baiting or beyond help. If the irrational fear of Reddit wasn't proof enough.
Again, halberds are wielded like quarterstaves. Not spears, even though they're capable of thrusting. Grabbing the pole doesn't give you complete control of a quarterstaff or halberd when properly used.
>When has anyone ever unironically said this?
see
So if someone doesn't specifically mention they have a shield on them in every single post they make, then that means they're fighting without a shield.
Okay.
All I see is a bunch of posts talking about the myriad of simple ways to counter spears, one guy unaware that you can't cut through a spear's pole, and one guy that even points out he'd be using a shield alongside his word.
I have to assume you're baiting at this point
The romans used pilla yes, aka throwing spears
The gladius was used almost exclusively for stabbing like a short spear and it’s main attributes were being simple, versatile, cheap, and easy to mass produce
Landsknechts were useless at everything apart from fighting dense pike formations which is why they existed for 5 microseconds, they weren’t great general warriors they were just a super specific counter
Halberds are literally spears with different shaped heads, and they were used to fight almost exactly like spears
Bet reenactors know way more about medieval fighting than some autist who got all his knowledge about medieval weapons from dark souls
And finally, reddit spacing
The roman army was actually really good at fighting elephants... by using javelins and throwing spears. Spearchads literally can't stop winning
>Buy a sword in addition to your sword and shield
>Cost: nothing
>Obstruction: A thing hanging from your belt that you barely notice
>Convenience: It's literally within arms reach at all times
>Security: You're not unarmed if something happens to your spear
>Flexibility: You can throw your spear if necessary, knowing you have a back-up weapon ready to go
Why bother choosing?
Are we talking about the early Romans who carried three javelins backed up by a shortsword, or the late Romans who carried a spear backed up by a longsword?
>>Cost: nothing
Wrong swords were extremely expensive and not worth bringing into battle except for noblemen
>swords were extremely expensive
A meme. They were expensive for the troglodytes of the early middle ages (the "dark" ages) but by the high and late middle ages they were extremely common.
Early Romans. They were so effective at btfoing elephants with their spears that war elephants effectively disappeared from the Mediterranean world by the Imperial period.
pic not related except as another example of successful spear wielding Romans
Are you backing down already? First time you faced the consequences of fighting in the dungeon. You're so in awe with your genius spear+shield+corridor combo I can confidently assume you won't be able to react fast enough to rapid turn of the tides.
In a world filled with giant powerful monsters if you must get into melee your only concern should be getting away as far as possible to shoot it with your ranged weapon of choice therefore the optimal melee weapon is a giant shield, spiked to taste
Bait
>Bait
Footwork
2/10 I replied
Your resolve is weak like your footwork. Observe.
I described the sequence but I can go into more detail if you wish. First I parry and pin your spear against the wall of the narrow corridor and break the shaft. Then I close in and kick the shield you raised to knock you down. Finally I step on you.
>If you just kick any guy with a shield he'll fall over like a ragdoll like in my epic video games!
Frick off.
Wouldn't he get hard-countered by the first sharp turn or enclosed space? Not much you can do with a spear there.
He doesn't have to follow you around the corner. He can just sit there and wait for you to come back around the corner and stab you then.
And if it's not a dead end and he can just go around and come up behind you? If the space is getting tight enough that you can't proceed, then you're probably already in a situation where you cannot rotate to bring the pointy end to bear if anything comes up behind you. Ceilings often aren't high enough to flip it overhead either.
>gets stuck in a 5' passage 90 degree turn
Pivot ain't gonna save you now, Ross
Just because spears are good for formation fighting doesn't mean they aren't good otherwise. I'd say they're pretty damn good for all fighting except maybe massive scrums of the type adventurers rarely engage in.
Cute spear, your husband made it for you?
That looks fricking moronic.
>anime picture
>degenerate coomer
IRL boar hunting was done with spears. And that and safaris hunting are the closest things we have to monster hunting for real. So yeah, spears.
>filled with giant, powerful monsters
Depends on the setting.
That aside, would you say the idea of fighting large monsters with a sword is impossible/improbable; yes or no?
Success in most cases relies on plot armor
Depends on the abilities and powers available to the swordfighter.
Anyway, did you have a straight answer, or will you continue being a homosexual?
For me it's the whip/flail
You belong in a museum.
>Think about it. In a world filled with giant, powerful monsters, why would you ever get close with a piddly little blade
Because that's not what swords are for. Swords are neither a hunting weapon nor a primary war weapon. They are a comfortably wearable tool of self defense suitable as a backup weapon on the battlefield or an everyday carry item in your day to day.
Even in a world filled with giant powerful monsters, there will be ordinary human c**ts who will try to mug you, slap your wench's ass, or insult your honour. Swords are for those situations - stabbing a c**t.
Depends on the setting.
The video that ended all swordcuck arguments
>re-enactors know more about ancient combat than the people who actually fought the battles
>every man in the past insantly died after being lightly grazed with the tip of a weapon, even if on accident, as if they were playing quake instagib
Great video.
Frick off furgay and take furkindred eceleb with you.
>swordsman Abzetsen
>gets in and wins
>goofs around inviting the attack
>loses
Truly a mystery
Spear is king, sword is sidearm
Yeah polearms are the better option realistically for killing people and monsters aside from a few scenarios, but swords are more symbolic of heroism and strength which goes with the average player character in ttrpgs more than a battlefield weapon. If you're playing some realistic mudcore setting then don't use swords, but in a high fantasy setting where courageous adventure and heroism are core themes i'd be surprised to not see a sword as it fits the themes
go frick yourself you soulless mudcore homosexual.
/tg/'s weekly childish spear vs sword thread. I love it so much.
Swords were never actually used in battle, they were too expensive to make and lose too easily to the much cheaper spear. Swords were more of a status symbol for the wealthy if anything.
Shut the frick up moron.
Imagine not carrying both a spear and a sword on you for different situations, along with a knife and bow.
So for this week's sword vs. spear thread can we conclude that swordgays got btfo and speargays won?
Yes
See
polearmchads always win, both in history and any semi realistic fantasy
also frick dnd for messing up what longsword bastard sword and greatsword means
FRICK LEATHER ARMOR as well you c**ts you sidelined my goddamn gamberson in favor of cow skin that was never that prevelant IRL
FYI
Longsword - two handed weigh around 1.5 kg
Bastard sword (hand and a half sword) - one/two handed weigh around 1 kg
Greatsword - two handed weigh around 2.5 kg
Hey Shad, why don't you GTFO
Shadiversity fricking sucks.
Not because of the politics although im sure leftists and the likes would disagree, but its just that he's moronic about things outside his reach
his vid about castles were wrong
his vid about nun chucks were mostly wrong by generalizing stuff
>Think about it. In a world filled with giant, powerful monsters, why would you ever get close with a piddly little blade? If you absolutely must go into melee, spears are the only sensible choice
are you joking or drunk?
Monsters are everywhere and are of all sizes, swords are the best weapon. It can cut and pierce.
Spears break easily when compared to swords and require lots space to use. They are great but have limits and must be used in specific manner. Swords as well. Spears cannot be used up close.
Swords allow you to close in with your shield and pierce the enemy while bashing and pushing it away, like the romans did with the gladius.
The blades on spears is small, the blades on swords are huge. Get serious.
you've already been btfo by six different people on every post you've made. even if you're a different guy you still have the spirit of swordgay living within you and you're already defeated.
>speargays so assblasted by one guy that they're shadowboxing random anons just pointing out that spears and swords have different uses
maybe you should kiss me if you're so mad
>Spears break easily when compared to swords and require lots space to use
Actually a spearshaft is more durable than a blade. It all comes down to practicality. In a battlefield situation, the spear is king, but swords are more practical in daily life.
to be fair its the shape. spears did break a lot when the knights on horses ran straight into the spear formation. that's well recorded. it'd be worse if it was any monster charging i think. same would happen with like a zweihander too though so yeah it's the shape.
i mean length not shape i'm a moron.
Anything long and thin is going to break when getting rammed into the bones of a 2000+ pound animal.
yea exactly but spears or long weapons are more likely to be caught in that. probably. it wont happen so much with a short sword cause its more manuverable plus its more resistant cause its shorter. i dunno might be wrong. either way i think a good tactic would be to let the monster charge into the spear and break into it and then pull out your short sword.
>spears did break a lot when the knights on horses ran straight into the spear formation
A charging knight delivers the same energy as .50 BMG, of course spears are gonna break
This is based on what exactly?
Simply by taking the mass of horse, knight and all their gear, the velocity of a charging horse, and calculating the force. This is the most scientific and accurate way to calculate their power, and is borne out by historical examples of the damage knights could do to each other with their cannonball-like lances.
>Spears break easily when compared to swords and require lots space to use
You literally know nothing about using spears or swords
Thursting does not require that much space
Trying to make fantasy realistic is a fools errand. The power of swords lie in their symbolism. They're the mark of a warrior. You posted a hunting tool.
nothing wrong with hunting if you're hunting enormous village razing beasts. its a difference in aesthetics
> your fantasy is unrealistic
Frick off realismgay. We know and don't care, heroic fantasy is unrealistic as frick and that makes it cool.
Ok but realistically, does a knight with a longsword stand a decent chance against a bear or even a lion?
In the context of fantasy, it depends on the other abilities and powers available to the knight, and the abilities/powers of the bear or even the lion.
>does a knight with a longsword stand a decent chance against a bear or even a lion?
Yes, because of reach. The bear, capable as it is of crushing the man in his shiny suit or ringing his bell, has the disadvantage of its main methods of attack being hurtable. If the bear is not in a fight or die situation, it will wander off if hurt.
Of course a spear would be better. But a four foot sharp object like a sword is nothing to sneeze at.
People have won close in melee fights against lions and bears without wearing armor. Not guaranteed of course, but real animals are almost never going to be motivated enough to actually deal with armor. A bear might swat a knight around and maybe cause a concussion or some broken bones, but it's not going to sit there and try to pick away at the armor in order to reach anything important with its claws. Tight chainmail is highly effective against sharks too, they make dive armor for that.
>Tight chainmail is highly effective against sharks too
It's never been tested by a superpredator like an orc or a white but then those aren't the things most likely to bite anyway
It's those little blacktip reef shits and their species wide case or doglike autism
You know a large predator could just swipe at your helmet and break your neck?
It could, but changes of it doing it purposefully are relatively low, it not being accustomed to fighting armoured opponents or knlwing how to counter it's weaknesses.
Depends on your helmet and gorget situation. It's entirely possible that there isn't enough range of motion in the armor to allow your head to move far enough to break your neck. Arms and legs, almost certainly, limb armor usually has a wider range of motion than the person wearing it, but neck armor usually just goes left and right, and you often need to tilt your entire torso to look far up or down.
Well, that's true if your character wasn't superhuman with incredible skills themselves.
Fantasy human adventurers are generally a cut above.
This.
Humans in fantasy aren't just normal humans, they have incredible strength and skills/fighting styles not normally seen IRL, that's why it's a fantasy.
This discussion is asinine.
Even if this were the case, there's no reason for a superhuman to cripple themselves with a crap weapon like a sword.
>there's no reason for a superhuman to cripple themselves with a crap weapon like a sword
Unfortunately swords have their own table to roll on for randomly generated treasure (like prostitutes) and their effects are superior to peasant weapons like spears, bows, and muskets. To fix this, homebrew magic weapon tables for each weapon.
>Sword are worthless in fantasy
No they're not.
>Think about it
I did, it's a moronic statement.
>In a world filled with giant, powerful monsters
And regular people. And animals. And small, not powerful monsters.
>why would you ever get close with a piddly little blade
To kill your enemy.
>spears are the only sensible choice
If the most is giant and powerful then it would outrange a spear as well. You haven't thought this through. Spears aren't as well designed to wound as a sword.
You are an idiot, OP. have a nice day at the earliest opportunity please.
Are speargays insecure?